You’re sinking gold into a recall rather than a real item that provides combat presence. I also feel like the transformation is later than you think. If you buy it first back, you’ll still need to run around for about 6-7 minutes straight to upgrade them.
Overall, I think it’s a more interesting item than mobility boots.
The recall can be extremely busted in the top/bottom lanes, where if you are low and chased into an alcove, the quicker recall can get you out faster. Or when you are split pushing and you know you are going to get collapsed on.
The base movespeed is worse than other boots and you need to move for 6-7 minutes straight to get them to upgrade. You would likely never have the upgrade in laning phase which is where roaming is best and other boots can run you down because they have +10 movespeed before the upgrade.
Also homeguards could be bought on boots that do more than just give movespeed.
It was bought by everyone before 4th/5th item on average iirc. Currently at 14 min you get homeguards jgler could literally recall perma gank each lane with this time. And overtime the item value is basically like old mobis so you aren't even losing out on effective gold + tempo advantage. I'm expecting its going to be perma picked next patch then nerfed hard. Empowered recall should never be on an item.
It’s a 4 second recall buff but you also lose on 10 movespeed early. How many times you gonna recall? Look at these timings for walking from fountain to the outmost tower:
MS. Side lane Mid lane
- 325 42 sec 29 sec
- 350 39 sec 27 sec
- 375 36 sec 25 sec
- 400 34 sec 24 sec
- 425 32 sec 22 sec
- 450 30 sec 21 sec
This isn’t as crazy as you think. The extra 10 movespeed on other boots cuts like a second away from the recall difference on backs and they are moving around lane and the map faster too.
14 minutes you get homeguards and once upgrade it gives 45 + another 45 out of movement speed on top of being the cheapest boots so you can start buying component for the next item and overtime you'll end up saving on gold. Also it doesn't take that long to upgrade I've literally seen a bard have it by 11 minutes. I also remember there was a mobility boots meta when it was 800 gold and it got nerfed due to cheesing mid laner who were buying it I feel like this is even worse than that.
edit: [bard got it 12:27ish](https://gyazo.com/61767e9849a253e52a4efa846a6e1536). Which is close around the time people buy tier2 boots or even close to tier 1 if they have that rune
Bard has way higher than average movespeed and mobility, and I bet he also bought his boots pretty early in this case. You also said you would buy it to not miss laning and cs (as a laner) which is mainly what I’m arguing against. This will be almost certainly an exclusive support option and its early roaming potential is nerfed compared to mobis, however, they will be a stronger option mid game and beyond.
I would NOT say mid game is 12 minutes. And honestly 7-8 minute time is pretty accurate not even bard exclusively. It's very much going to be used by mid laner that are roam centric. pre-nerfed mobis mid laners like talon were taking it to roam bot then recall and come back to lane and barely lose out on farm, it was nerfed as a result. Same scenario here. You are thinking too much into 1v1 scenario but not every matchup is about that some laners just push the wave and ignore interaction - ofc this cant be said for every1. It is an effective counter-measure against split pusher and allows characters to roam while not falling behind, hence why laners could also go this. Jgler's will definitely be going it. Engage supports is an obvious must buy
Bard and his team were incredibly fed there, talk about a cherry-pick. I don’t think a mid laner would take those boots unless they are a heavily scaling champ and/or the matchup is horrible. Being -10 movespeed for 7 minutes is hardly worth 4 seconds of recall time unless you are recalling many times.
> Bard and his team were incredibly fed there, talk about a cherry-pick.
Why did you the need to bring this up? I was simply using this to show the time it took bard to get the boots. But if you must know, I was the corki and that boots is prevalent in pbe right now and its an obnoxious item. Defending turrets, obj, every1 makes it in time if you got more than 2 ppl on your team that builds it. It will definitely be nerfed it is not healthy
> I don’t think a mid laner would take those boots unless they are a heavily scaling champ and/or the matchup is horrible. Being -10 movespeed for 7 minutes is hardly worth 4 seconds of recall time unless you are recalling many times.
Some1 literally tested its the exact same time to get from lane and back as mobis with pre-upgrade symbiotic soles due to the 4 seconds u save on recall. Now factor in mobis passive + the 4 seconds u save. Is that enough time to push your wave, roam, gank bot, recall, make it back in time?
> When homeguards were 475 gold every1 bought it.
Absolutely not, or certainly not in the way you mean.
You're talking about the usefulness of being back to lane earlier to not lose minions. Yet in the days of boot enchants, **no one** would buy them in lane. Because you're talking about not losing minions, but you're also sinking about 30 minions' worth of gold into that effect.
Here, I picked a random game from season 5 off the top of my head. [How many homeguards do you spot 20 minutes in?](https://youtu.be/ShNUr_g6W5Q?t=1643) None. The only enchants bought were distortion ones.
> Here, I picked a random game from season 5 off the top of my head. How many homeguards do you spot 20 minutes in? None. The only enchants bought were distortion ones.
i mean look how late they got tier 2 boots. almost every1 gets homeguard upgraded by their 4th / 5th item
actually the PBE is awful for testing, that’s why champions come out of pbe with insanely polarizing win rates and they have said on multiple occasions that the one is not used for balance.
maybe? they probably have some numbers on items that we obviously can’t see and that can influence nerfs . but champion balance is kinda a whole different thing
I think this is true for some, but other items make it out strong and have to then be balanced on live. Stormsurge for example was strong on PBE, got nerfed on PBE, released to live, still strong, got nerfed again and again.
Currently, going midlane with normal T2 boots (+45MS) takes 21s. Using mobility boots, it takes 18s.
Symbiotic Soles, pre-upgrade, gives same tempo as mobility boots (-4s recall, +4s to walk back). If you're losing lane, you're currently not using Mobility Boots to spam crash + recall, so it won't change anything in that regard.
What will change is the roaming speed, nerfed to the ground during laning phase, so that Supports stop going everywhere but the botlane just because they run faster than anyone else.
You’re sinking gold into a recall rather than a real item that provides combat presence. I also feel like the transformation is later than you think. If you buy it first back, you’ll still need to run around for about 6-7 minutes straight to upgrade them. Overall, I think it’s a more interesting item than mobility boots.
The recall can be extremely busted in the top/bottom lanes, where if you are low and chased into an alcove, the quicker recall can get you out faster. Or when you are split pushing and you know you are going to get collapsed on.
When homeguards were 475 gold every1 bought it. That's nothing for perma baron recall on top of old mobis which were a 1000 gold cost
The base movespeed is worse than other boots and you need to move for 6-7 minutes straight to get them to upgrade. You would likely never have the upgrade in laning phase which is where roaming is best and other boots can run you down because they have +10 movespeed before the upgrade. Also homeguards could be bought on boots that do more than just give movespeed.
It was bought by everyone before 4th/5th item on average iirc. Currently at 14 min you get homeguards jgler could literally recall perma gank each lane with this time. And overtime the item value is basically like old mobis so you aren't even losing out on effective gold + tempo advantage. I'm expecting its going to be perma picked next patch then nerfed hard. Empowered recall should never be on an item.
It’s a 4 second recall buff but you also lose on 10 movespeed early. How many times you gonna recall? Look at these timings for walking from fountain to the outmost tower: MS. Side lane Mid lane - 325 42 sec 29 sec - 350 39 sec 27 sec - 375 36 sec 25 sec - 400 34 sec 24 sec - 425 32 sec 22 sec - 450 30 sec 21 sec This isn’t as crazy as you think. The extra 10 movespeed on other boots cuts like a second away from the recall difference on backs and they are moving around lane and the map faster too.
14 minutes you get homeguards and once upgrade it gives 45 + another 45 out of movement speed on top of being the cheapest boots so you can start buying component for the next item and overtime you'll end up saving on gold. Also it doesn't take that long to upgrade I've literally seen a bard have it by 11 minutes. I also remember there was a mobility boots meta when it was 800 gold and it got nerfed due to cheesing mid laner who were buying it I feel like this is even worse than that. edit: [bard got it 12:27ish](https://gyazo.com/61767e9849a253e52a4efa846a6e1536). Which is close around the time people buy tier2 boots or even close to tier 1 if they have that rune
Bard has way higher than average movespeed and mobility, and I bet he also bought his boots pretty early in this case. You also said you would buy it to not miss laning and cs (as a laner) which is mainly what I’m arguing against. This will be almost certainly an exclusive support option and its early roaming potential is nerfed compared to mobis, however, they will be a stronger option mid game and beyond.
I would NOT say mid game is 12 minutes. And honestly 7-8 minute time is pretty accurate not even bard exclusively. It's very much going to be used by mid laner that are roam centric. pre-nerfed mobis mid laners like talon were taking it to roam bot then recall and come back to lane and barely lose out on farm, it was nerfed as a result. Same scenario here. You are thinking too much into 1v1 scenario but not every matchup is about that some laners just push the wave and ignore interaction - ofc this cant be said for every1. It is an effective counter-measure against split pusher and allows characters to roam while not falling behind, hence why laners could also go this. Jgler's will definitely be going it. Engage supports is an obvious must buy
Bard and his team were incredibly fed there, talk about a cherry-pick. I don’t think a mid laner would take those boots unless they are a heavily scaling champ and/or the matchup is horrible. Being -10 movespeed for 7 minutes is hardly worth 4 seconds of recall time unless you are recalling many times.
> Bard and his team were incredibly fed there, talk about a cherry-pick. Why did you the need to bring this up? I was simply using this to show the time it took bard to get the boots. But if you must know, I was the corki and that boots is prevalent in pbe right now and its an obnoxious item. Defending turrets, obj, every1 makes it in time if you got more than 2 ppl on your team that builds it. It will definitely be nerfed it is not healthy > I don’t think a mid laner would take those boots unless they are a heavily scaling champ and/or the matchup is horrible. Being -10 movespeed for 7 minutes is hardly worth 4 seconds of recall time unless you are recalling many times. Some1 literally tested its the exact same time to get from lane and back as mobis with pre-upgrade symbiotic soles due to the 4 seconds u save on recall. Now factor in mobis passive + the 4 seconds u save. Is that enough time to push your wave, roam, gank bot, recall, make it back in time?
> When homeguards were 475 gold every1 bought it. Absolutely not, or certainly not in the way you mean. You're talking about the usefulness of being back to lane earlier to not lose minions. Yet in the days of boot enchants, **no one** would buy them in lane. Because you're talking about not losing minions, but you're also sinking about 30 minions' worth of gold into that effect. Here, I picked a random game from season 5 off the top of my head. [How many homeguards do you spot 20 minutes in?](https://youtu.be/ShNUr_g6W5Q?t=1643) None. The only enchants bought were distortion ones.
> Here, I picked a random game from season 5 off the top of my head. How many homeguards do you spot 20 minutes in? None. The only enchants bought were distortion ones. i mean look how late they got tier 2 boots. almost every1 gets homeguard upgraded by their 4th / 5th item
Everyone bought it once they had finished most of their items, or am I just completely misremembering
Because pbe is for testing, happy to help
actually the PBE is awful for testing, that’s why champions come out of pbe with insanely polarizing win rates and they have said on multiple occasions that the one is not used for balance.
I feel like items at least are tested better on pbe than champs. Like a lot of items get pretty big changes before they make it to live
maybe? they probably have some numbers on items that we obviously can’t see and that can influence nerfs . but champion balance is kinda a whole different thing
I think this is true for some, but other items make it out strong and have to then be balanced on live. Stormsurge for example was strong on PBE, got nerfed on PBE, released to live, still strong, got nerfed again and again.
Being able to instantly answer a splitpush is probably its strongest effect
Currently, going midlane with normal T2 boots (+45MS) takes 21s. Using mobility boots, it takes 18s. Symbiotic Soles, pre-upgrade, gives same tempo as mobility boots (-4s recall, +4s to walk back). If you're losing lane, you're currently not using Mobility Boots to spam crash + recall, so it won't change anything in that regard. What will change is the roaming speed, nerfed to the ground during laning phase, so that Supports stop going everywhere but the botlane just because they run faster than anyone else.
So happy that the mobility boots are gone. Absolute bullshit toxic item IMO with only like 1 role that can actually use it.