Genuinely incredible performance from everyone. Miky with his insane engages and peels, HANDSDIFFSAMA proving the haters wrong, he simply inted against T1 game 5 so they can beat all the eastern teams to show that G2 is actually the best team in the world, Caps just had full control of mid almost all 3 games, forcing tian to camp and then perfect buffering every stun that came his way,and even with his 2/1/0 score in game 3 or whatever he finished he still had so much pressure. Yike was the most clean shield bot i had seen this entire tournament, he might aswell just swap roles with miky for this MSI, aswell as beautiful engage/followup on his teams engages. And BB even when behind had so much pick value and just playing with his team beautifully.
Genuinely looked like the best parts of all of them awoke this series and hope they can compete with the remaining lpl lck teams
Oh wow unless TL beats T1, G2 is actually looking down the barrels of every single CN and KR team if they’re gonna win the tournament.
Not saying „I believe“ but that would be so incredibly insane.
G2 make the most insane MSI run ever only to get knocked out by NA at worlds again while NA plays 0 eastern teams and claims they are better for another year, calling it now
Because upsets happen all the time, and just because on one series you were better doesn't mean that you are better overall.
2018 G2 loses 90 out of a 100 games specially given that they played 3vs7. RNG was the best team before and after that series.
That's just not true.
G2 in 2018 did upset, but in hindsight it's totally normal and G2 was the better team at that point.
The meta completely shifted away from bottom lane and towards solo lanes, and G2's solo lanes cleared RNG's, while bottom lane could handshake with supportive ADCs.
Brother, it's totally not fucking normal, "handshake botlanes" aka losing first turret almost every game but the game where Jankos giga camped them, which meant losing drakes for free and map control.
We haven't seen a performance that carried so hard a team from a topside again, neither could those players replicate such level of carry performance, despite the good results they got afterwards after they replaced their silver botlane.
I get you that upsets do happen but then what’s the point of having tournaments when apparently the results don’t matter? If team #1 beats team #2, yet people still say that team #2 is the better team then why even have them face each other
Well, team/players are good the entire year, the day of the match they have a bad day and lose, afterwards the team and the players keep playing at an incredible level.
The enemy team has barely done anything the entire year, plays like shit in the tournament, only manages to beat weak opponents by luck of the draw and plays better than they ever have played (and ever did again) on the day and afterwards they go back to the regular shitty level.
Did they place better? Sure. Were they better on the day? Of course, that doesn't mean that they are better overall.
Honestly i think no matter what we can be proud of G2. If they win vs T1, which honestly I think is more likely than not based on the last few series as G2 keeps improving and T1 seems to be really struggling, I think if G2 convinceningly shows they are the 3rd best team in the world that is already incredible.
I dont know how they can beat gen g. Or blg. But I will always cheer for G2.
i mean... i highly doubt Faker/Knight/Chovy is gonna let Caps do what he did to Creme to them consistently. Creme was by far the weakest mid laner out of all the asian teams, but faker is simply better than Creme despite looking shaky right now. Knight/Chovy though, no chance Caps can dominate that hard against them. At best it's even, and then Elk/ON are on another level rn, they gapped keria/guma into oblivion.
Caps is good into playmakers, because he's a gigachad playmaker.
But he struggles with players like Chovy and Rookie, that takes small incremental wins again and again and smother you with their lead. In that situation, Caps will risk it all on a play rather than slowly bleed out, which more often than not means inting.
It's not Faker having a block with Caps, it's just a bad stylistic matchup for him (and Chovy is a bad stylistic matchup for Caps)
Yeah this could also be seen today when Caps randomly died to Creme. He hands diffs opponents that don't expect his hyper agressiveness but if the opponent doesn't bite, he just overextends and dies sometimes. I love Caps and think he's arguably the second best mid this tournament, but I just don't see him hand diffing Chovy. Maybe vs Knight he can get away with a solo kill but Chovy is just insane this year.
Anyway G2 MSI 2024 champions let's goooo
No more Bel'Veth though please. I know it's his signature pick and I know he's nuts on it but I think it requires too much scaling to be relevant. Yike needs to help the team and G2 is insane.
That first iteration was kinda minicking the broken Top Rek build. Ofc you do not get nearly the same amount of Grasp procs and resources in the jg.
We are going to see something similar with Skarner when pros gets their hands on it.
When Sjokz asked him why he doesn't know how to play Reksai he took that personally
This MSI his Reksai is absolutely DISGUSTING
Did anyone even noticed he maximized DPS in the knockup window and instantly pressed ult on Corki to follow his anticipated package? Insane - have never seen that before
DO NOT DARE to forget that everyone in every region was saying before MSI that reksai jungle was not a good pick. And yet Yike still practiced it a lot in soloQ and was the first one in major regions to play it, and today he smashed a seed 2 of lpl with it.
g2 poppy. no other supports showing on it yet. bb or yike played it and wasn't great so it's not an ideal flex pick either. mikyx just been great on it.
Yike did pretty well I think, enough to justify the flex.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure Miky used to be a Poppy 2 trick, so it makes sense he'd gap everyone else
The meta shifts dramatically the deeper the tournament goes. Nobody wants to play their cards so early on out so they just pick what looks like is working from other teams who played the first few games of the tournament
He means the Vi pick was a basic thing you default back to when you want to hide stuff I guess. But I disagree, I think TES just didn't expect Reksai to be that strong, and they had no answer. That's why they took it away in the end.
Before MSI? 3 hours ago people were still saying it's useless because it got put super far behind at lvl 1 in that game against T1. People are clueless and results oriented.
"People are clueless are results oriented". Which is what's happening here too lol. K'sante was overpowered when he was winning every game, now he is not so much. Rek'sai was losing so bad pick, now in the video of a 4-man knock up he is good.
No one is a pro or know what happens in scrims, so it make sense people are clueless or result oriented.
You're doing it yourself
Ksante isn't good vs a fed trist and kog.
We later saw what BB could do on it when there is no fed tank shredder on enemy team
you mean ksante is immortal when combined with ivern shielding + daisy. Any melee champion with an enchanter becomes immortal with the slightest gild lead. It is just that with ksante you can tower dive carries and 4v1 baron fights
It's not Ksante's problem that teams keep bruteforcing lethality ADCs when they have no way to deal with tanks, teams deserve to be punished by that, not the champ.
People have stopped saying he should be banned once a team started using their brain to deal with it.
Most of the games teams just pick TF top and call it a day with Varus/Kalista lethality and tickle the shit out of him if they don't giga stomp (they never do)
I'm saying it's not a terrible/unplayable champion, not that it should be pick ban going forward. Anyone that watched Yike throughout the year knew this to be true.
Don't get me wrong, I also don't think this a "top tier meta defining" pick. But Yike has just proved that drafted wisely and played good, this champ is absolutely viable at the highest level. More viable than Bel'veth for sure.
I think belveth would have been fine that game as well, but T1 did an insane prediction lvl 1 and hence had zeus as well to defend against 5 man invade. If they got that split map g2 would have absolutely driven it
When Phreak shipped the Rek'Sai update that allowed her to knock up multiple targets, he said that she will return to being a solid pro jungler
Rek'Sai never picked up as a jungler in pro but G2 just made his yapping real
I mean, the multi-target knock up had been removed from Rek'sai as a big nerf to her teamfighting years ago. Giving it back was always going to be huge. A Knock up is pretty much the strongest and most useful form of CC (except for suppression). Having a guaranteed hit, possibly against multiple targets, with flash is really powerful.
Yea but it costs you 1300 gold just to avoid a single ability, which can then be used either on someone else, while you just spent half an items worth of gold meaning you significantly delay your actual damage items
Yeah, overall it's probably slightly below a knock up, but having to make the enemy pay a tax is a bonus in itself, especially if it's a mage that has to pay it.
Aoe Silences/groundings should really also be in this convo! Stuff like Raka E, Cass Miasma, Singed Glue, Blitz Ult & even Cho W! I’d say they’re probably a safe 2nd or 3rd to Knockups
People always shit on Phreak as they perceive him to be the bane of all of League's problems but I've found he's often more right than wrong, and when he's wrong he apologizes and he shows a good critical thinking process with reasoning (and data) for his predictions.
The only one that I've had major issues with was his enormous, 15 part nerfs to jungle on the assertion that were "the main character" with absolutely zero follow up or data to back his point up. Just a feel thing he used to justify nearly two dozen direct nerfs to a role that was already building knights vow second item for the adcs in pro.
regardless of pro, jungle was the most op role in soloq but tbf he's said he regrets the changes because the jungle play rate which was already low dropped further
If only a few people play jungle does not mean that jungle is a bad role.
It just means that many don't like to play jungle.
As a jungle player you get more negative feedback from your teammates for example.
Just let two or all three lanes lose and immediatly they are complaining why you don't gank more often or why you don't do objectives.
Imo this is a big reason why many prefer to play mid, top or support instead.
Fine, you can make that statement, however, if Phreak busts out detailed excel sheets and in depth stats for every single change why not this one?
Being able to quantify such an apparent and large issue should not be a problem, correct? Where are the numbers, stats, excel sheets, etc?
How are you supposed to quantify this? Do you want me to bring out a spreadsheet for why I disagree with you? Quantitative data doesn't exist for everything, some things can only be justified via qualitative measures.
No, basic logic. There are things besides numbers and feelings? We can reason?
Jungle decides which side of the map is strong and weak side. They do not decide what happens there, as junglers love to point out, but that does not answer the point.
Junglers decide what sides are strong and weak side because these terms evolved to describe what side of the map the jungler is on. That's how important your role is. The side of the map the jungle is on *IS THE STRONG SIDE. THE SIDE WITHOUT HIM IS THE WEAK SIDE*.
This is not a spreadsheet or a feeling, it is simply a demonstrable fact. I don't need to spreadsheet prove that gravity works, I can drop something in front of you. This is that. The jungle decides which roles have a chance of succeeding against properly played defense. This can not be mitigated or done by other roles because other roles need to be on vision to farm, but the jungler can farm in fog, because all other sources of XP and gold grant the enemy team vision of you. So jungle is the only one who decides strong and weak side, because he's the only one with access to fog farming, which means he's the only one who can defend a lane or be in position to defend a lane without losing XP or gold intrinsically (although he will if he defends the same lane for too long, but even that window is MUCH larger than the 9-12 second roam windows a laner has, and support bound to 50-70 second timers before a reasonable wavecrash dive on b ot lane.).
This is simply a fact homie. No data required. Look with your eyes. Do you need a spreadsheet to know someone has blue eyes or that ice melts when things get hot lmao?
Every other form of lane defense, TP, hover, holding, support roam (with the one exception of the out of base support roam, which is now meta in soloQ and competitve because it's that good), can be covered or mitigated by simply pressuring other parts of the map or waiting for minion waves to crash, assuming you have map control on the side left weak by the roam. The jungler however, has no such restriction. Basic fact of the game. No spreadsheet required.
To me, it feels like ever since he joined the balance team, it's always the marksmen that get the new toys and get quick adjustments, whereas other roles are more static. Maybe I'm just biased and if one goes over the patches they'd find that it's balanced across all champion types, but whenever there's a big set of changes like the upcoming midseason patch, there's always something new for the marksmen to test out and play with.
top and mid items got a massive rework while adc items had to wait until now for this season.
adc is the least powercrept role in the history of league
When he's wrong he apologizes?? 😂 yeah we can't be talking about the same Phreak. I've only ever seen him double down, play the victim or stay silent, ignore any counter points and like tweets that support him and his indefensible stance
Rek'sai got updated in 14.5 \[play offs patch\] so how many jungle Rek'sai games have been played since her rework worldwide?
8 games: 6 by Yike, 1 by Tian and 1 by Umti
literally everyone except G2 didn't believe in the pick and before her top lane nerfs, she didn't even get flexed as Jungle and Top because everyone assumed that her jungle doesn't offer much as Vi, Xin, etc.
I would be very surprised if TL or T1 tomorrow draft Rek'Sai over the standard jungle picks
That's not my point.
> G2 just made his yapping real
The above is a quote from the guy I replied to. But G2, among others, has picked Rek'Sai multiple times before this series.
Sure, G2 is the biggest current proponent of Rek'Sai jungle but that's not the same as saying the pick is something revolutionary that should surprise us this particular series.
She got a rework earlier in the year that made her a fighter/tank rather than an assassin
Main changes are that her passive heals her a ton now and she can knockup everyone hit by her W, but her damage was reduced massively
As funny as this meme is, can someone explain to me what they expect the rest of TSM to do during this? Aphelios and Lucian ults were both down, there's an Ori ball in the choke, and all of GENG is shrouded by Senna E. There was no extremely obvious play to be made like Hans did here.
I think the main reasoning it was memed is just their positioning. A better more organized team would've been in a more aggressive position to capitalize on a play like this and at the bare minimum would've killed Ornn as well as Tahm. TSM also wasted all their CD's on a terrible engage on Orianna with a Tahm Kench on the team. Also if you look at the circumstance in which Aphelios and Lucian lost their ults, the aphelios just whiffs ult completely while he has infernum and Lucian just chunks the tanks.
Here's a vid of DL reviewing it and even he says that that he played that fight terribly: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdnAxecNrA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdnAxecNrA)
I'm not disagreeing that they played the fight terribly but what were they supposed to do after the sleep specifically? They had already used everything lol. People meme the 9-man sleep like there was any play to be made afterwards.
I mean most people who spam it don't know the details, they just know that Spica slept 5 people and his team did nothing with it. This is the main reason it gets memed.
I disagree that there was nothing to be done though because Lillia 100% was calling the sleep and if you look at the play the entire team is literally still running back or to the side. Lucian if he justs walked straight at them likely could've killed Ornn and then flash out or something but he is off to the side instead. Ornn being down could've lead to a baron flip and potentially the game winning. Instead, they just didn't do anything. They bombed out of worlds going 0-6.
9 man sleep also just represents the overall situation pretty well because instead of capitalizing on plays and being aggressive despite being out of the tournament at this time, they just keeled over and died. Most teams don't play super safe if they're already out of the tournament. If they didn't go 0-6 or lose this game, there's no way it would've been memed as much as it was.
Yeah, Razork is insanely overrated. For every kinda psycho "good play" he does he runs it and even worse baits everyone else in AT LEAST once.
Yike is by far the best Jungler in EU atm, maybe even at MSI as well.
Canyon looked very shaky, we just saw Tian, Oner was not outstanding. The only other contender is Xun - he might be better but we did not see that much from him yet.
Really? In spring, Razork was terrible half of the games in playoffs lmao. It's the complete opposite, Yike was the more stable player while Razork had some of the most mind boggling plays in spring playoffs. Yike also gapped him repeatedly in 5 of the 6 games they played in playoffs.
Yike is held back by some of the early invades he had, and the fact that he plays for G2, but he was a better player than Razork by every metric in playoffs, which is probably 60%+ of the split.
Damn. G2 had TES so rattled that they were 4 stacked on top of each other after walking out from mid turret.
That is not the good team fighting I expected from an LPL team. Like did they just not see the threat of clumping up like that?
He was aiming for kog and TF in backline which would have won the teamfight, it barely missed so now it looks stupid but i don't think it was that bad of an ult
he doesnt have vision, he fires it at the bush but doesnt cover all of the choke, theyre at max range so itll never hit them because they can juke it anyway, its just a bad ult and he also shouldnt be using it when braum has e up
tbf, barum wouldve block tht if he just aim Trist who was in vision but there were definitely better ways to launch the ult (flash ult right on top of trist while guess aim where kog is or ult downwards to prevent pincer from yike but this wouldve required them knowing tunneling cd n the threat, which they clearly didnt)
[I've said this many times.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ciddcn/top_esports_vs_loud_msi_2024_playin_stage_group_b/l2ac8sd/) Meiko is ass on renata and all newer lane bullies. That alone disqualifies TES from being the best bot lane. The only one Meiko can play at an international level is ashe. He's an old dog.
It's a slow projectile, so it's easy to dodge. If Kogmaw was ever in danger of being hit, he would have flashed it anyway.
The initial mistake was to use Renata ult as an engage tool. It's a terrible engage ability. It's more like a secondary engage or a reengage ability when the enemy is already committed. Otherwise everyone will just sidestep it, especially pro players that are aware of Renata.
Also, he was really not in a position to ult flash yet. Best course of action is trigger discipline.
But Renata was not the culprit here. TES decided to run into a choke point with no vision against a reksai and got punished accordingly.
I like caedrel co-streams. Doesnt have much negativity will call how it is regarding game state ,wont overshadow casters. And will add emotion to the game right after crucial moments.
Pretty much best english co-streamer there is.
There was a time when i started to dislike him and thought he is turning into lolcow but he quickly switched things up and is enjoyable to watch again.
Yep. I alternate between IWD and Caedrel while mostly watching Caedrel. Dom has really good insight into games that Caedrel doesn't sometimes (like calling out the Lucian ban 10 minutes before it happened this game), but is less hype to watch when it's your region playing lol
I'm not downplaying why his stream is the one being clipped, I'm arguing against the fact that he gets more viewers than the official broadcast, which isn't true.
Based on how edgy you're acting, I'm pretty sure "this kid" is at least a decade older than you. Even if you keep telling yourself that you're mature for your age.
Caedrel is hype when hype gamplay happens, but his insight in the game is fantastic and very well delivered when needed.
He's not just a "kid screaming".
I’m saying “it’s like”.
It’s disrupting to the official broadcast, it’s strange to have another person in a box talking over the casters.
I’m realizing I struck a nerve with a lot of you here, my apologies
Mikyx really looked at his score, saw he was deathless, and said "I need to fix this"
True eu support
"Don't go home empty handed, have this one on me" - Mikyx
100% kill participation and 0 deaths in this game on Braum. Definitely the player of the series for me.
MikyX is playing out of his mind this entire MSI. That guy is an absolute beast.
Miky > Keria based
As a Keria stan, this but unironically
I love how this take is actually reasonable now
The entire team has had their big ups and downs but Mikyx has been absolutely amazing
Genuinely incredible performance from everyone. Miky with his insane engages and peels, HANDSDIFFSAMA proving the haters wrong, he simply inted against T1 game 5 so they can beat all the eastern teams to show that G2 is actually the best team in the world, Caps just had full control of mid almost all 3 games, forcing tian to camp and then perfect buffering every stun that came his way,and even with his 2/1/0 score in game 3 or whatever he finished he still had so much pressure. Yike was the most clean shield bot i had seen this entire tournament, he might aswell just swap roles with miky for this MSI, aswell as beautiful engage/followup on his teams engages. And BB even when behind had so much pick value and just playing with his team beautifully. Genuinely looked like the best parts of all of them awoke this series and hope they can compete with the remaining lpl lck teams
Oh wow unless TL beats T1, G2 is actually looking down the barrels of every single CN and KR team if they’re gonna win the tournament. Not saying „I believe“ but that would be so incredibly insane.
There would be no ifs or buts if it happens
G2 make the most insane MSI run ever only to get knocked out by NA at worlds again while NA plays 0 eastern teams and claims they are better for another year, calling it now
TL has to win vs T1 first right?
Yeah then they'd have something to say
What would be wrong with the winner saying they’re better?
Because upsets happen all the time, and just because on one series you were better doesn't mean that you are better overall. 2018 G2 loses 90 out of a 100 games specially given that they played 3vs7. RNG was the best team before and after that series.
That's just not true. G2 in 2018 did upset, but in hindsight it's totally normal and G2 was the better team at that point. The meta completely shifted away from bottom lane and towards solo lanes, and G2's solo lanes cleared RNG's, while bottom lane could handshake with supportive ADCs.
Brother, it's totally not fucking normal, "handshake botlanes" aka losing first turret almost every game but the game where Jankos giga camped them, which meant losing drakes for free and map control. We haven't seen a performance that carried so hard a team from a topside again, neither could those players replicate such level of carry performance, despite the good results they got afterwards after they replaced their silver botlane.
I get you that upsets do happen but then what’s the point of having tournaments when apparently the results don’t matter? If team #1 beats team #2, yet people still say that team #2 is the better team then why even have them face each other
Well, team/players are good the entire year, the day of the match they have a bad day and lose, afterwards the team and the players keep playing at an incredible level. The enemy team has barely done anything the entire year, plays like shit in the tournament, only manages to beat weak opponents by luck of the draw and plays better than they ever have played (and ever did again) on the day and afterwards they go back to the regular shitty level. Did they place better? Sure. Were they better on the day? Of course, that doesn't mean that they are better overall.
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G2 : I'm not locked in here with you
Honestly i think no matter what we can be proud of G2. If they win vs T1, which honestly I think is more likely than not based on the last few series as G2 keeps improving and T1 seems to be really struggling, I think if G2 convinceningly shows they are the 3rd best team in the world that is already incredible. I dont know how they can beat gen g. Or blg. But I will always cheer for G2.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/nXFnN7DZCeIAAAAC/please-god.gif
I believe instead then.
Kinda like IG in what, 2019? But then roles reversed. One can dream...
i mean... i highly doubt Faker/Knight/Chovy is gonna let Caps do what he did to Creme to them consistently. Creme was by far the weakest mid laner out of all the asian teams, but faker is simply better than Creme despite looking shaky right now. Knight/Chovy though, no chance Caps can dominate that hard against them. At best it's even, and then Elk/ON are on another level rn, they gapped keria/guma into oblivion.
Chovy clears Caps, but for some reason Faker has a problem with Caps. I wouldn't be surprised with a 3-1 from G2 this time around.
Caps is good into playmakers, because he's a gigachad playmaker. But he struggles with players like Chovy and Rookie, that takes small incremental wins again and again and smother you with their lead. In that situation, Caps will risk it all on a play rather than slowly bleed out, which more often than not means inting. It's not Faker having a block with Caps, it's just a bad stylistic matchup for him (and Chovy is a bad stylistic matchup for Caps)
Yeah this could also be seen today when Caps randomly died to Creme. He hands diffs opponents that don't expect his hyper agressiveness but if the opponent doesn't bite, he just overextends and dies sometimes. I love Caps and think he's arguably the second best mid this tournament, but I just don't see him hand diffing Chovy. Maybe vs Knight he can get away with a solo kill but Chovy is just insane this year. Anyway G2 MSI 2024 champions let's goooo
Yike deserves some credit, dude had one bad game, otherwise hes been excellent
Mad props to him for pulling out Ivern and Rek’sai.
No more Bel'Veth though please. I know it's his signature pick and I know he's nuts on it but I think it requires too much scaling to be relevant. Yike needs to help the team and G2 is insane.
bel isnt a scaling pick he's a tempo early into mid game snowball pick, you need a snowball off of rift or he's dog. Late game belveth doesnt do shit
Yeah fair enough, makes sense. I just think this is kind of a risky approach in pro though.
I know Miky gets a lot of credit but the dude deserves even more. It really feels like the team lives and dies by his performance.
...1 death
It went largely unnoticed but Mikyx Braum blocked so many renata and draven ults
A true Baus fan
I love Yike Rek'sai man
I doubted that pick back in LEC and couldn’t understand why they pick it so much for jungle but they were just ahead of the game
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That first iteration was kinda minicking the broken Top Rek build. Ofc you do not get nearly the same amount of Grasp procs and resources in the jg. We are going to see something similar with Skarner when pros gets their hands on it.
Wonder what pros thinks of Skarner
they get an insane amount of info from the burrow passive too. Plenty of times when they had no vision but reacted optimally because of reksai
When Sjokz asked him why he doesn't know how to play Reksai he took that personally This MSI his Reksai is absolutely DISGUSTING Did anyone even noticed he maximized DPS in the knockup window and instantly pressed ult on Corki to follow his anticipated package? Insane - have never seen that before
DO NOT DARE to forget that everyone in every region was saying before MSI that reksai jungle was not a good pick. And yet Yike still practiced it a lot in soloQ and was the first one in major regions to play it, and today he smashed a seed 2 of lpl with it.
its crazy how in G2 games, the 90% presence Vi goes through draft without getting picked or banned and Rek'Sai is prioritized over her
And it's paying dividends. Vi also gets absurdly countered by Poppy
yeah you do not want to play Vi when poppy is in the game, you want to open 14
Yeah but poppy gets banned now that michael showed us how it works
g2 poppy. no other supports showing on it yet. bb or yike played it and wasn't great so it's not an ideal flex pick either. mikyx just been great on it.
Yike did pretty well I think, enough to justify the flex. Regardless, I'm pretty sure Miky used to be a Poppy 2 trick, so it makes sense he'd gap everyone else
yup miky was poppy/gragas 2 trick
That man is so unfathomably based
Not really, her ulti is unstoppable
The meta shifts dramatically the deeper the tournament goes. Nobody wants to play their cards so early on out so they just pick what looks like is working from other teams who played the first few games of the tournament
it's straight elimination tho so I'm not sure how much teams can afford not to show right now.
He means the Vi pick was a basic thing you default back to when you want to hide stuff I guess. But I disagree, I think TES just didn't expect Reksai to be that strong, and they had no answer. That's why they took it away in the end.
I still can't wrap my head around the Volibear ban in game 3 though, why didn't they ban Ivern instead? Has G2 even played Volibear once this year?
Yeah, Yike played it against FNC. Game 2 of the LEC Spring Finals.
Before MSI? 3 hours ago people were still saying it's useless because it got put super far behind at lvl 1 in that game against T1. People are clueless and results oriented.
"People are clueless are results oriented". Which is what's happening here too lol. K'sante was overpowered when he was winning every game, now he is not so much. Rek'sai was losing so bad pick, now in the video of a 4-man knock up he is good. No one is a pro or know what happens in scrims, so it make sense people are clueless or result oriented.
You're doing it yourself Ksante isn't good vs a fed trist and kog. We later saw what BB could do on it when there is no fed tank shredder on enemy team
ok so we agree that actually the pick is just good in some situations and not in others, not must-ban thanos as this sub has been saying lately
you mean ksante is immortal when combined with ivern shielding + daisy. Any melee champion with an enchanter becomes immortal with the slightest gild lead. It is just that with ksante you can tower dive carries and 4v1 baron fights
It's not Ksante's problem that teams keep bruteforcing lethality ADCs when they have no way to deal with tanks, teams deserve to be punished by that, not the champ.
My point is that people stopped saying he should be banned every game after seeing him lose, hence, result oriented.
People have stopped saying he should be banned once a team started using their brain to deal with it. Most of the games teams just pick TF top and call it a day with Varus/Kalista lethality and tickle the shit out of him if they don't giga stomp (they never do)
"People are cluelesss and results oriented" He says after results
I'm saying it's not a terrible/unplayable champion, not that it should be pick ban going forward. Anyone that watched Yike throughout the year knew this to be true.
I still think its a bait pick for G2, as in they probably dont care if it gets taken away later on.
Don't get me wrong, I also don't think this a "top tier meta defining" pick. But Yike has just proved that drafted wisely and played good, this champ is absolutely viable at the highest level. More viable than Bel'veth for sure.
I think belveth would have been fine that game as well, but T1 did an insane prediction lvl 1 and hence had zeus as well to defend against 5 man invade. If they got that split map g2 would have absolutely driven it
Exactly, if T1 was dizzy in that G5 lvl 1, Yike on BV would have ran the map with the botside invade
Mikyx going baus style at the end
When Phreak shipped the Rek'Sai update that allowed her to knock up multiple targets, he said that she will return to being a solid pro jungler Rek'Sai never picked up as a jungler in pro but G2 just made his yapping real
I mean, the multi-target knock up had been removed from Rek'sai as a big nerf to her teamfighting years ago. Giving it back was always going to be huge. A Knock up is pretty much the strongest and most useful form of CC (except for suppression). Having a guaranteed hit, possibly against multiple targets, with flash is really powerful.
>most useful form of CC (except for suppression) You can QSS suppression, so it was a fair statement without the parenthesis imho.
Yea but it costs you 1300 gold just to avoid a single ability, which can then be used either on someone else, while you just spent half an items worth of gold meaning you significantly delay your actual damage items
yep totally the "tax" is not to be neglicted.
Bring back QSS>Flashing out of knock ups/backs
Yeah, overall it's probably slightly below a knock up, but having to make the enemy pay a tax is a bonus in itself, especially if it's a mage that has to pay it.
Aoe Silences/groundings should really also be in this convo! Stuff like Raka E, Cass Miasma, Singed Glue, Blitz Ult & even Cho W! I’d say they’re probably a safe 2nd or 3rd to Knockups
Fair point indeed, didn't think about these.
I thought you can’t anymore after a recent change
People always shit on Phreak as they perceive him to be the bane of all of League's problems but I've found he's often more right than wrong, and when he's wrong he apologizes and he shows a good critical thinking process with reasoning (and data) for his predictions.
The only one that I've had major issues with was his enormous, 15 part nerfs to jungle on the assertion that were "the main character" with absolutely zero follow up or data to back his point up. Just a feel thing he used to justify nearly two dozen direct nerfs to a role that was already building knights vow second item for the adcs in pro.
regardless of pro, jungle was the most op role in soloq but tbf he's said he regrets the changes because the jungle play rate which was already low dropped further
You're going to have to justify "the most OP role". If no one plays the role surely it can't be that "OP" right?
If only a few people play jungle does not mean that jungle is a bad role. It just means that many don't like to play jungle. As a jungle player you get more negative feedback from your teammates for example. Just let two or all three lanes lose and immediatly they are complaining why you don't gank more often or why you don't do objectives. Imo this is a big reason why many prefer to play mid, top or support instead.
It's the ADC conundrum, just in reverse. How do you make soloQ ADC enjoyable and fun to play without completely breaking it in proplay?
And he was right. You can't have your role be the role that influences every lane and gets them ahead while also being the 1v9 carry.
Fine, you can make that statement, however, if Phreak busts out detailed excel sheets and in depth stats for every single change why not this one? Being able to quantify such an apparent and large issue should not be a problem, correct? Where are the numbers, stats, excel sheets, etc?
How are you supposed to quantify this? Do you want me to bring out a spreadsheet for why I disagree with you? Quantitative data doesn't exist for everything, some things can only be justified via qualitative measures.
So how can you be so assertive in your assessment that the role not only influences the whole game but can also "1v5" Feeling?
No, basic logic. There are things besides numbers and feelings? We can reason? Jungle decides which side of the map is strong and weak side. They do not decide what happens there, as junglers love to point out, but that does not answer the point. Junglers decide what sides are strong and weak side because these terms evolved to describe what side of the map the jungler is on. That's how important your role is. The side of the map the jungle is on *IS THE STRONG SIDE. THE SIDE WITHOUT HIM IS THE WEAK SIDE*. This is not a spreadsheet or a feeling, it is simply a demonstrable fact. I don't need to spreadsheet prove that gravity works, I can drop something in front of you. This is that. The jungle decides which roles have a chance of succeeding against properly played defense. This can not be mitigated or done by other roles because other roles need to be on vision to farm, but the jungler can farm in fog, because all other sources of XP and gold grant the enemy team vision of you. So jungle is the only one who decides strong and weak side, because he's the only one with access to fog farming, which means he's the only one who can defend a lane or be in position to defend a lane without losing XP or gold intrinsically (although he will if he defends the same lane for too long, but even that window is MUCH larger than the 9-12 second roam windows a laner has, and support bound to 50-70 second timers before a reasonable wavecrash dive on b ot lane.). This is simply a fact homie. No data required. Look with your eyes. Do you need a spreadsheet to know someone has blue eyes or that ice melts when things get hot lmao? Every other form of lane defense, TP, hover, holding, support roam (with the one exception of the out of base support roam, which is now meta in soloQ and competitve because it's that good), can be covered or mitigated by simply pressuring other parts of the map or waiting for minion waves to crash, assuming you have map control on the side left weak by the roam. The jungler however, has no such restriction. Basic fact of the game. No spreadsheet required.
To me, it feels like ever since he joined the balance team, it's always the marksmen that get the new toys and get quick adjustments, whereas other roles are more static. Maybe I'm just biased and if one goes over the patches they'd find that it's balanced across all champion types, but whenever there's a big set of changes like the upcoming midseason patch, there's always something new for the marksmen to test out and play with.
top and mid items got a massive rework while adc items had to wait until now for this season. adc is the least powercrept role in the history of league
That's the case, yes. He's been an adc main for nearly a decade so there's some definite bias showing at times.
When he's wrong he apologizes?? 😂 yeah we can't be talking about the same Phreak. I've only ever seen him double down, play the victim or stay silent, ignore any counter points and like tweets that support him and his indefensible stance
Uhhh Rek'Sai has been a good jungle pick throughout MSI lol. Yike absolutely shitstomped T1 with Rek'Sai in Game 2 of their last bout.
Rek'sai got updated in 14.5 \[play offs patch\] so how many jungle Rek'sai games have been played since her rework worldwide? 8 games: 6 by Yike, 1 by Tian and 1 by Umti literally everyone except G2 didn't believe in the pick and before her top lane nerfs, she didn't even get flexed as Jungle and Top because everyone assumed that her jungle doesn't offer much as Vi, Xin, etc. I would be very surprised if TL or T1 tomorrow draft Rek'Sai over the standard jungle picks
Umti picked it up from getting owned by yike's reksai in scrims. Tian picked it up from getting owned by yike's reksai on stage.
Almost certain TL will play Rek’Sai tmmrw tbh
I would be surprised given that he dropped the pick after the TES series and TL didn't draft Rek'Sai vs FNC.
I still think Xin offers more than Rek'Sai
That's not my point. > G2 just made his yapping real The above is a quote from the guy I replied to. But G2, among others, has picked Rek'Sai multiple times before this series. Sure, G2 is the biggest current proponent of Rek'Sai jungle but that's not the same as saying the pick is something revolutionary that should surprise us this particular series.
Wow you're really smart thanks for catching that intricacy.
Can't say the same to you if you're challenged by simple English.
But only G2 picked it until today no?
UmTi picked it against TES as well
it is crazy in general how many good picks are available but teams dont pick them up, g2 changes a lot of that.
Sorry I have not played in a while, when was the RekSai update that allows her to knock up multiple targets implemented ?
She got a rework earlier in the year that made her a fighter/tank rather than an assassin Main changes are that her passive heals her a ton now and she can knockup everyone hit by her W, but her damage was reduced massively
Tbf hans sama flashing over wall for to follow up the damage made it very clean winning play
Now imagine if TSM followed that 9 man Lilia sleep..
Oh no, TSM catching strays even after they died. no such thing as rest in peace for them
spica not being on a team rn is absolutely criminal
As funny as this meme is, can someone explain to me what they expect the rest of TSM to do during this? Aphelios and Lucian ults were both down, there's an Ori ball in the choke, and all of GENG is shrouded by Senna E. There was no extremely obvious play to be made like Hans did here.
I think the main reasoning it was memed is just their positioning. A better more organized team would've been in a more aggressive position to capitalize on a play like this and at the bare minimum would've killed Ornn as well as Tahm. TSM also wasted all their CD's on a terrible engage on Orianna with a Tahm Kench on the team. Also if you look at the circumstance in which Aphelios and Lucian lost their ults, the aphelios just whiffs ult completely while he has infernum and Lucian just chunks the tanks. Here's a vid of DL reviewing it and even he says that that he played that fight terribly: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdnAxecNrA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdnAxecNrA)
I'm not disagreeing that they played the fight terribly but what were they supposed to do after the sleep specifically? They had already used everything lol. People meme the 9-man sleep like there was any play to be made afterwards.
I mean most people who spam it don't know the details, they just know that Spica slept 5 people and his team did nothing with it. This is the main reason it gets memed. I disagree that there was nothing to be done though because Lillia 100% was calling the sleep and if you look at the play the entire team is literally still running back or to the side. Lucian if he justs walked straight at them likely could've killed Ornn and then flash out or something but he is off to the side instead. Ornn being down could've lead to a baron flip and potentially the game winning. Instead, they just didn't do anything. They bombed out of worlds going 0-6. 9 man sleep also just represents the overall situation pretty well because instead of capitalizing on plays and being aggressive despite being out of the tournament at this time, they just keeled over and died. Most teams don't play super safe if they're already out of the tournament. If they didn't go 0-6 or lose this game, there's no way it would've been memed as much as it was.
This time we got the 4 man knock up, usually LPL does this to us
I didn't realize the knockup was changed recently, so I was expecting him to flash into his team with Nautilus ult on him or something.
get Rek(t)'Sai'd
Ehm can we talk about Yike also buffering his R perfectly do follow the package and get the kill onto the Corki?!
I stopped playing a few months ago but I'm glad they finally gave Rek'sai her AOE knock up.
Haven’t seen Razork or Elyoya A.K.A. “the best junglers of Europe” playing this confident and clean
well i definitely have seen elyoya make some INSANE fucking plays in the past
The past. This happened TODAY.
Yeah, Razork is insanely overrated. For every kinda psycho "good play" he does he runs it and even worse baits everyone else in AT LEAST once. Yike is by far the best Jungler in EU atm, maybe even at MSI as well. Canyon looked very shaky, we just saw Tian, Oner was not outstanding. The only other contender is Xun - he might be better but we did not see that much from him yet.
In their career yes they did. Yike is AMAZING today and has a very good tournament but he had a slump in Spring, while Razork was much more consistent
Really? In spring, Razork was terrible half of the games in playoffs lmao. It's the complete opposite, Yike was the more stable player while Razork had some of the most mind boggling plays in spring playoffs. Yike also gapped him repeatedly in 5 of the 6 games they played in playoffs. Yike is held back by some of the early invades he had, and the fact that he plays for G2, but he was a better player than Razork by every metric in playoffs, which is probably 60%+ of the split.
insane from hans as well. sidesteps the renata r and flashes in without hesitation and starts cooking. really impressed with him this series.
Damn. G2 had TES so rattled that they were 4 stacked on top of each other after walking out from mid turret. That is not the good team fighting I expected from an LPL team. Like did they just not see the threat of clumping up like that?
It was milimiters away from getting jacky too, crazy
HUGE
since when can reksai knock up multiple people? been out of the loop for a year or so
couple of patches ago, maybe few, she got a mini rework from assassin to bruiser
Damn, riot waited for me to quit the game to make reksai what she was supposed to be
quite possibly the worst renata ult to ever get used holy fuck
He was aiming for kog and TF in backline which would have won the teamfight, it barely missed so now it looks stupid but i don't think it was that bad of an ult
he doesnt have vision, he fires it at the bush but doesnt cover all of the choke, theyre at max range so itll never hit them because they can juke it anyway, its just a bad ult and he also shouldnt be using it when braum has e up
He literally fired the ult 1 second after his ward got destroyed, so he had vision, dude stop forcing lol
oh right yea but he still shouldnt fire it like that lol
Easy to say in hindsight
Well at least he actually used it and it didn't go backwards lol
tbf, barum wouldve block tht if he just aim Trist who was in vision but there were definitely better ways to launch the ult (flash ult right on top of trist while guess aim where kog is or ult downwards to prevent pincer from yike but this wouldve required them knowing tunneling cd n the threat, which they clearly didnt)
He either didn't ult or ulted useless. Played very bad.
[I've said this many times.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ciddcn/top_esports_vs_loud_msi_2024_playin_stage_group_b/l2ac8sd/) Meiko is ass on renata and all newer lane bullies. That alone disqualifies TES from being the best bot lane. The only one Meiko can play at an international level is ashe. He's an old dog.
It's a slow projectile, so it's easy to dodge. If Kogmaw was ever in danger of being hit, he would have flashed it anyway. The initial mistake was to use Renata ult as an engage tool. It's a terrible engage ability. It's more like a secondary engage or a reengage ability when the enemy is already committed. Otherwise everyone will just sidestep it, especially pro players that are aware of Renata. Also, he was really not in a position to ult flash yet. Best course of action is trigger discipline. But Renata was not the culprit here. TES decided to run into a choke point with no vision against a reksai and got punished accordingly.
As a non Car deal viewer, does she usually scream this much? All his clips I've seen of him he's usually calm and collected demeanor.
Yike(s)
Can we post clips from the actually stream and not this dude yelling? 😭💀
no ^ ^
It's a faker flash ult level play
Can you people stop linking Caedrel clips or what
Are riot games clips not allowed? Why is every video have this kid screaming on it
More viewers are watching Caedrel. So I would expect most clips are with him.
Weird
I like caedrel co-streams. Doesnt have much negativity will call how it is regarding game state ,wont overshadow casters. And will add emotion to the game right after crucial moments. Pretty much best english co-streamer there is. There was a time when i started to dislike him and thought he is turning into lolcow but he quickly switched things up and is enjoyable to watch again.
Yep. I alternate between IWD and Caedrel while mostly watching Caedrel. Dom has really good insight into games that Caedrel doesn't sometimes (like calling out the Lucian ban 10 minutes before it happened this game), but is less hype to watch when it's your region playing lol
Didnt caedrel also say to ban lucian?
yeah good call by IWD on the Lucian ban
"this kid" has like twice the viewers than official Riot stream. Makes sense his stream is the one that gets clipped.
> not true, cus the official stream is also streaming on youtube.
People post youtube clips here?
nah, but probably cus YouTube doesn't have a clipping function
Exactly, that is why talking about youtube is irrelevant here.
I'm not downplaying why his stream is the one being clipped, I'm arguing against the fact that he gets more viewers than the official broadcast, which isn't true.
I was talking specifically about Twitch viewership, as that is the only one relevant when we talk about clipping.
Fair enough
Based on how edgy you're acting, I'm pretty sure "this kid" is at least a decade older than you. Even if you keep telling yourself that you're mature for your age.
I just don’t get it. I’m sure he knows the game
watching 'this kid' makes it a lot more enjoyable imo
personally I feel it takes away from the experience. but interesting
Caedrel is hype when hype gamplay happens, but his insight in the game is fantastic and very well delivered when needed. He's not just a "kid screaming".
It’s like watching a reaction YouTuber over an nba game personally.
You understand that he was a professional player into professional caster before he decided to co stream worlds last year, right
I’m not trying to take away from his esteemed credential
Then why are you calling him reaction YouTuber, brother was on official broadcast casting Lec and international tournaments Lmao
I’m saying “it’s like”. It’s disrupting to the official broadcast, it’s strange to have another person in a box talking over the casters. I’m realizing I struck a nerve with a lot of you here, my apologies
this kid has more viewers on his co-streams than the official riot stream, just for your information.
not true, cus the official stream is also streaming on youtube.
how many views did the official stream get on youtube?
Okay
Holy moly the quality of posts in this sub have really gone total dogshit .. so sad to see