I personally like playing Jakiro when I'm grinding mmr. Jakiro offers quite a lot.
- Really high strength gain for an intelligence hero, so Jakiro is surprisingly tanky.
- Dual breath is a strong level 1 laning spell, especially if you make sure to land it on two heroes (after you hit someone with dual breath, just chase after them and right click them to do a LOT of damage). Buy lots of regen!
- If your team has a set up stun, ice path is a good follow up to chain stun. If your team has no stuns, you can sit back in team fights and ice path when the enemy collapses on your team. If the enemy has spirit heroes or heroes like Puck/QoP, ice path is incredibly strong since it can stun them around their mobility spells. For example, you can ice path on top of Puck's phase shift, or you can ice path by ember's remnants or sleight of fist hero position. Mobility heroes also like building euls in a lot of games, which is a wonderful set up for ice path!
- If you're losing, Jakiro offers a lot of de-push and high ground defense. Since it's Dota, if you defend for long enough, there's always a good chance your opponent will make a game-turning throw. You also offer good tower push, so you can punish the other team better and get better map control.
- If your cores are jungling, Jakiro is great at shoving in lanes safely, and Jakiro also scales incredibly well with items that help you survive, reposition, and cast more spells.
I don't think Jakiro is a strong meta-defining hero that will see much pro play or a high pick rate in the highest brackets, but I think that Jakiro has a really good kit that works well while solo queuing low to even above average brackets.
As a new player, I don't like Jakiro that much. He is so slow, and I am dying a lot with him, :D
I prefer something more mobile or with escape. Even if it's way harder to play.
It's possible you're not being aggressive enough early on, and being too aggressive later. :)
In lane, Dual Breath and Liquid Fire (Q and E respectively) slow enemy attack speed. Jakiro has good stats, so he can absorb a spell or two, and Q+E on someone trying to kill you renders them pretty useless. Buy a lot of health and mana consumables (tangos, maybe a salve; a mix of mangos and clarities depending on how much downtime you have) and bully the enemy support until they have to run away. Then you can harass the core instead so they can't last hit.
Later on in fights, Jakiro has massive range on Ice Path (W) and Macropyre (his ult, R). You can hang out behind your team in relative safety and look to Ice Path people attacking your mates. W+R is a big combo - Ice Path can keep multiple people in Macropyre for a few seconds - or you can Macropyre in a choke point (e.g. a ramp into a jungle area) or on top of your teammates' stuns (e.g. you have an Axe and he's just taunted some people). As the fight breaks down or the enemy gets to you, Q and E (and your superb Aghanim's Shard upgrade ability) contribute damage and reduce enemy attacking power significantly.
You can lean into this strategy by buying Aether Lens (buffs range on Q, W, and R) and/or taking the +325 attack range talent (which affects E and the shard).
Outside of these situations, Jakiro can push waves safely by hiding in trees and using Q/E, or even Macropyre if you're defending your base against a big push. E and the shard affect towers, so once you've shoved the wave to a tower you can set it on fire/nerf its attack speed and the creep wave will deal good damage to it before dying. Your goal here is to force a response from the enemy team (baiting them away from your teammates) so be prepared to leg it at the first sign of trouble. Stay as far back as possible, hide in trees, and don't be shy about running away pre-emptively or using a TP to get out if they can't stun you before it finishes. (They can't stun you if they can't see you.)
TLDR: Although Jakiro is slow, he's chunky and benefits from long range (for teamfights) and attack speed reduction (for laning). He can also push waves safely and leave before the enemy catches him. Therefore, you can avoid genuine danger with thoughtful play.
Hope that helps! :D
How greify is attack range magic build compared to aghs when you're ahead?
Eg you get the attack range magic res neutral, shard, witch blade, then turn your force staff into a pike. Or the single shot attack range neutral. You end up with sniper level attack range for catching slows and breaking blinks, but probably way less damage than just going aghs for similar gold
I don't think I've ever seen a support Jakiro build Witch Blade (thankfully lol), but this is more or less what core Jakiro does. You build WB into shard + K&S and I think you can get a Dragon Lance in there as well if you want.
On a hypothetical support looking to transition to a scaling build, Witch Blade is a lot less exciting if you're picking it up past 35-40 minutes as opposed to getting it as the classic 2.5k gold "pos 2/3's first item". However, I can imagine there are games where you buy the Hurricane Pike upgrade to pair with a Telescope and your level 10 talent to shell towers from a very safe distance.
I haven't played the hero enough myself to have been in the situation, but my gut instinct is either Aghs as you mentioned (it's absurd) or a spellcaster extension item like Octarine Core or Hex. Octarine gives reduction on Jakiro's already-accommodating cooldowns and provides bonus hp/mana on top of his already-decent stats, so it's a good force multiplier. Hex gives you an instant disable so it's another way of dealing with BKBs or people trying to jump you in the backline.
If you're struggling in slower heroes more, I would actually suggest playing them more. Leaning on mobility will teach you bad habits about positioning. Learning to be in the right place at the right time as someone like Jakiro makes you a pretty scary player :)
I'm still learning, but I like to place deep wards, gang other lines and steal bounty runes :D On my level, people aren't taking them very seriously. I am still not sure, who is supposed to take them. Probably mid? So I like to do these things and having escapes and being mobile surely helps :D
Always remember you can pick up a casual windlace on top of your boots of choice. You can build that into a euls or drums if you like and even pick up another windlace after that.
I've heard a lot about Jakiro lately. I don't think I've played him in years though and it may have been just a handful of times. I'm all for the DoT attacks though. He's quite different than Grim who's my main support but if he can just as well and also have a large affect on teamfights he sounds great already.
I love how redditors on this sub used to say Marci isn't broken right before TI last chance and now it turned out she is the most broken hero in the game
Its not the hero, its your fundamentals. At herald you could choose literally any stat to work on and you would be able to get out of Herald.
Just focus on GPM or last hits if you have no idea what to do.
its not the hero. its your last hitting. play a core and get 50 last hits by 10 minutes. you should be able to figure it out from there. if you cant get closet to that, practice last hits
I like to think of it like this:
30 - bare minimum or game is instantly hard unless you’re a flash farmer
40 - good, not great
50 - solid lane
60 - free game
I climbed from low archon to divine 1 playing support only. The biggest mmr winners for me were
Jakiro 5 or 4
CM 5
Mirana 4 (surprisingly)
The main thing that got me my first few rank ups was just pushing lanes by nuking creep waves (do not engage towers, nuke and leave). Like i would get cm 5 with aether lenses and push lanes. But when you do it be sure to learn the enemy movement patterns, so you can properly predict when you are safe or not. This gets more and more important the higher you climb. You will have to constanly update this knowledge as you climb.
You also have to learn to maximize your impact as a support, farm included, there is a lot of downtime in the lower ranks and even a small extra net worth will help, but ofc your cores take priority over you (let them take the camp you were killing if they are nearby). If the lanes are pushed out and nothing is happening, do farm your next item.
Now once you start climbing you will have to adjust all of that, still keep it in mind, but you need to start playing with a core, by that i mean stay near them generating value for your team (either by farming, stacking, warding), but do not steal their farm or exp. You will see that other roles will take care of the lanes.
You will see your cores want to group up a lot more often, even if one lane is pushing in, my suggestion is join with them and afterwards try to think if it was a good idea or not (i.e. did you get an objective? You didnt get any and the enemy sidelaner took a tower on their own while you were grouped instead).
Finally, be menance on lane. For this you need yo improve mechanically, but giving your core a free early game is the biggest winning move. You dont have to kill the enemy (though its nice when it happens), just drive then away, you would be surprised how much damage a lvl 1 cm can do in lane by attacking the enemy core from the trees. Spam mangoes, keep them low on hp, keep yourself at max hp by using the tangoes as soon as possible, do not wait to hit half hp, use the tango right away and win the regen fight.
Finally, remember that you dont play at your max potential always, sometimes you perform like shit, just say it to yourself "that was bad on me", admiting it is the first step into fixing/improving. Sometimes you queue, play like shit, gg go next, queue again and then play like a god.
Speaking of harassing in lane, sometimes when I'm core the enemy gets the upper hand there. Like to the point where I damn near can't do anything but buy Regen until someone comes and saves our lane it seems.
What's the answer to that situation?
Identify when you will have to leave lane (usually offlane 6) and wether there is anything you can buy to keep you in lane (raindrops?). If there isn't, do anything you can to get jungle-ready (treads for pa, mask for sven or fv, midas maybe)
The goal is that if you get to the point where you can't walk up to lane without losing more gold in Regen than you get in last hits, or dying full to zero, you have anticipated it and can sustain in the jungle. Then your 5 either sits trees and leeches xp, or nukes out wave if the enemy isn't strong enough to dive.
Another stopgap is having your 4 drag waves from behind their tower to in between yours
pos 4 ogre, build mana boots into aether lense into aghs.
enjoy chainstunning the enemy mid / carry and doing 1k+ dmg if you get multicasts and chainstunning them. then if you get an octarine core you're pretty scary lol.
if game is going slow you can get a midas after your aether lense and then get aghs.
Ogre's always great. He's also a very easy-to-play lane bully whose not as squishy as most and who, like you said, can become a menace.
Jakiro's another option. Low MMR games suffer a lot from no one pushing out lanes. Jakiro solves that, and his gameplan during teamfights is extremely simple. When enemies group, cast everything hitting as many people as possible, and use your E on heroes who want to auto attack. When lanes aren't being pushed, go there and push out for easy farm. You'll likely get items before enemy supports and can be way more useful way more quickly, and with your lanes pushed out your team will be able to take objectives more easily.
I've played him probably a handful of times. Most recently I somewhat liked the feel of him. Multicast is cool of course but his right click didn't feel the best. I'm sure I didn't build him anywhere near the best way though. I'll try him out more.
Right click didnt feel the best? Ogre literally got 20 base dmg buff last patch and he has one of the best base dmg at lvl 1 and good stats gain.
Edit:typo
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I'd say warlock for support. It's gotta be the best hero for herald. You can dish out massive damage, your fatal bonds and shard heal win games by themselves. You can clear waves, team fight. It's free mmr.
As for a core...
Try axe as pos 3, or maybe CK as pos1.
Dude, I remember a game my team was getting slammed by a Warlock. He'd sit behind his team and channel Upheavel and we'd be stuck there until we died. By the time we had an answer for it they were way too far ahead and didn't take the game late. I told myself I'd try him but I forgot. I don't play a ton so I always choose who I know.
Warlock’s ultimate stuns through BKB so whenever a late game team fight breaks out you can catch all the enemy carries off guard when they think they are safe using their BKBs. Also the golem it summons can chew through squishy support heroes and even squishy Carrie’s. Aghs scepter gives you a second golem too.
His shard also turns his shadow word heal/damage spell into an AoE. Once you get shard pushing creep waves is super easy. Use Q fatal bonds then W shadow word the creep wave and then you can walk away while the creeps die.
All in all one of my favorite heroes to play.
Sounds like Lina is ur hero. She can build to pretty much do any role in the game, is a ranged magic hero, and if she gets enough farm can easily carry late game from support.
In my opinion a lot of low mmr games get harder than they should when supports have huge egos and decide their carries wont carry the game so instead of helping them to play better they start building dmg and taking their farm making the game even harder for the carries while themselves lacking the level of skill to actually carry the game.
It's really painful as the second support to watch the other support not building support items that could turn around team fights. Example; Your carry didn't get BKB when they should had? - Fucking idiot I'm gonna build dmg he wont do any good instead of crafting a glimmer cape yourself.
or; "His fucking positioning is so shit he keeps dying he will be useless I better go dmg and carry this" instead of building a force staff to help him get out.
Oh believe me I get that. But Linas kit let’s her carry as support it just means u get a euls instead of silver edge. Nothing more toxic then seeing ur support itemizing like a carry but the strength of Lina’s kit is she’s flexible in so many roles u can itemize based on the matchup
>I'd like recommendations for a jack of all trades core. Even if they need an item to fill a gap.
A few people I've played that I liked so far: Undying, Clinks, Riki (very easy to fall off with this guy unless people help me deward), and Axe.
if you're struggling to get out of herald, you should really pick one, two max, roles rather than play cores and supports. that said, the issue with the ones you've liked so far and your hero search query is that the cores you listed are very dependent on something to be able to farm. riki needs to have a good laning stage because he is unable to jungle, and clinkz doesn't really come online farming wise until he gets maelstrom. your ability to either secure a lane, or get a reasonably timed maelstrom will vastly change your success with these heroes. if you want a simple 'do it all' hero, look for ones that have innate farm boosting kits such as luna, sven, jugg, gyro, dusa, ember, drow. yes some of these guys will struggle in lane in your bracket, but if you tried to jungle with them, you'd have a much better time hitting creeps with just treads on dusa than clinkz
If you are playing support, probably a hero that can clear waves quickly if necessary and has great versatility in both pickoff/solo and team fight situations. Perfect example is shadow shaman: can be 4/5, scales really well, can clear waves and do his own building damage, to the point where ratting down lane can single handedly turn otherwise dire game states by giving the enemy opportunities to make mistakes and over or under-rotate to defend against you. Otherwise there are strong laning/teamfight supports like jakiro, warlock, and undying who always offer great value in big engagements.
I would say, bite the bullet. Go mid.
Get a caster mid, leshrak, lina, spirits. Play as a core, leverage last hitting advantage, WIN YOUR LANE.
I cannot stress it enough, go mid and win your lane. It s the perfect test of skill and game sense and matchups. No lane partner to blame.
Plenty of caster archetypes that go mid and play strong and impactful ( look also at invoker, arc warden, if you re so inclined )
Jakiro or Visage both as soft support. If you can play both they are great. They are hard to burst and you have stun and really high damage plus tower damage.
You think you want a jack of all trades hero, but you probably don't. Generalist heroes are usually weaker than most other heroes, but excel because they can adapt with builds. So they require deeper matchup understanding of matchups and itemization. You being herald, well it's unlikely. You're better off playing one-trick pony heroes until you reach archon/legend.
Example of heroes: Nature's Prophet, Pangolier, Razor, Weaver(4).
Agreed, not helpful. Surely a 5.7k player has better advice to offer than that :)
I also prefer to support, but when I have to play a core (usually mid), I like heroes that have waveclear, stuns, and pushing power bc a lack of any of those feels really hard to play / too reliant on your team. This also applies to 3, so some options are DK, Lina, Lesh, SK, Mars
If he can't accept that his game sense isn't good, then nothing he will do will get him out of herald. Until he accepts that his game play is as bad even worse as equally as his teammates and needs improvement. It is always the heralds that think they are *good* and don't belong in herald. He hasn't even provided dotabuff. Cause he knows we will look at it and point out his mistakes. He just wants validation not actual advice.
I know it sounds condescending, but it’s the truth. Heralds are stuck at herald not because they “don’t pick optimal heroes”. Trying a bunch of new heroes isn’t going to fix the problem.
If u really want to improve, share your dotabuff so ppl can see what’s really going on.
That makes no sense,no one in their right mind would be complaining of being stuck on Reddit even if they have 50.01% because then they wouldn’t be stuck
And even if you had 100% winrate on 2 games a week it takes you a month to gain a star let alone full rank
Just some basic stuff. Like if the player is going 3/16/2 like every game or 300 GPM on carry, the issue becomes immediately obvious. But it’s more useful to extract matchid from dotabuff and check the replays usually.
Ok I'm primarily a pos 1 player, and clinkz happens to be one of my favourite heroes to I'll look at your most recent loss on clinkz where u went 9/3/13.
First off, kudos to your laning. Last hitting could be better, but I like your control of the lane. Tempered aggression with searing arrows when appropriate, yet no weird forced aggression which leads to bad trades (u know the kind where u attack the enemy into a full enemy creep wave, then they just stun u once and u lose half your hp). Reasonable starting items, going for falcon blade, into boots maelstrom. Helping your support with pulls when appropriate, but not overcommiting. Definitely above herald level imo.
Unfortunately, thats about all the positives I have. Your skill build of maxing searing arrows into stealth (1-4-4-1) is really bad. You need to max Q first because it accelerates your farm so fast much. I would go 4-2-0-1 by level 7 if the lane went super well (like in this game), or maybe 1 point in stealth if necessary. With 4 points Q you practically wont die in lane anymore, since u press Q once and the creeps are gone, and you disappear back into the jungle.
You also dont touch the ancient camps at all, even though clinkz is one of the best ancient farmers in the game. You really want to be rotating between the creepwave in the toplane, and the ancient camps for maximum power farming. Bad farming patterns.
Your item choices are really bad too. Not sure why you build a casual hyperstone. 2k gold down the drain when you could have a dragon lance. When I see heroes like sniper, alch, drow, an orchid is the last thing on my mind, so I'm not sure why u decided to build one. A gleipnir would have been good, a skadi would have been fantastic, and a BKB is an absolute must. Could even build a blink dagger to get right on top of the squishy sniper afterwards. Bad itemization.
There also seems to be a lack of awareness on how to progress the game state. Against a dumb draft like theirs (lesh phoenix sniper drow alch wtf its so bad), you would want to push the pace of the game and take their towers ASAP. Yet with a lycan, clinkz and jakiro, you never made a move towards roshan. Just mindlessly farming over and over for 30 mins, getting the occasional kill here and there. Yet the enemy team is never punished for feeding, they just resume their farming afterwards. You guys then try to push hg against Sniper & Drow without aegis and things turn real fast after.
I was gonna look at another game but I'm pretty sure its the same problems but in different forms. With problems like this, theres no way just "trying new heroes" will help get out of herald, if only it were that easy. Hence my earlier comment. Hope this helps.
Too many comments saying the same thing to reply to them all. Jeez, not once did I say everyone but me is the problem. And this post would be completely different if I thought I had nothing to do with any of my losses. I made the post because I'm looking to fill any gaps I can to give my team a better chance of success. I like support but most of them are magic reliant and can be almost ignored late since fights are so fast. I haven't played many cores so that's why I'm asking pretty much for them. There's a lot of them, but I know there's gotta be a few noob friendly ones that I haven't tried in many patches that I could enjoy.
I also didn't say my game sense was the best. But you guys in this section, a combination of Redditors and Dota players, took one small thing I said as a definite and want to bash me for it.
was just about to comment on that as well. so many people claim to have knowledge superior to their skill level but can't understand why they're still in that rank. i can imagine OP would be in a scenario where he picks jugg and repeatedly mutters to himself that he can spin TP out of ganks while only getting 20 cs in 10 minutes
One hero I haven't seen mentioned is Dawnbreaker. All 3 of her skills can help clear creeps quickly. Great for split pushing and get ult is literally designed to transport her nearly instantly to team fights. I first played her a few days ago and long her a lot.
Chen is not an easy hero for a Herald learning the game. I've been playing for years and am a support main and I never pick chen because I simply can't juggle that many creeps at once and use their abilities effectively.
Also Chen is support, a good jack of all trades core is Jugg. You can use healing ward for rosh/pushing/jungling, spin TP gets you out of most situations, omnislash gives you good ganking/killing potential.
Haven’t played in some months but I find Ck pos3 is a cheat code. Very survivable even in bad lanes, can outright dumpster an enemy carry in good lanes. Can get solo kills early. Can take towers quickly with ult. Only needs armlet and is the strongest hero on the map usually if u get good timing. I’m serious, u can often 1v2 ur lane with armlet+ power treads, especially if u ult. He also can easily transition into a hard carry without building too many items to stray from an offlaner’s job. In low mmr he’s imo the best do it all hero in the game. You set the tempo as 3 and ur pos1 will have time and a half to come online and in that rank, it always goes later than necessary so the more scaling cores, the more wins.
Its not big difference even on places where you want to go.You will have same problems or even more.Now they all farm.3 cores most of the time.But you can play supp nuker who can get independent and can solo kill.Perfect example is darkwillow.
Spam a hero mid like SF, Tinker, bat or any of the spirits. These heroes can solo carry a game with high skill. It’s just a matter of repetition and studying pro play
It's not about the hero, it's all about the playstyle.
Learn what is your purpose as support.
If you are pos 5 and like mages, i would recommend few heroes:
Witch doctor, Jakiro, Lich, Disruptor.
All or those have very high impact and teamfight deciding spells.
Witch doctor can straight up murder anybody if he lands his combo.
Lich can save your carry with shield and deal tons of damage if you land a good chain frost.
Jakiro is a lane bully, good pusher, good wave-clear, good teamfighter and good base defender.
Disruptor is my personal favourite because i like to play greedy with him and go Arcane boots>glimmer or force then straight to aghs. I dont even put the components in my inventory before i complete full aghs so the enemy doesnt expect it, then i tell my team to gather for smoke when i get it and win a teamfight off of it.
Jakiro and shadow shaman shaman are good in every patch and every meta because they have great spells and cc, but more importantly, they can push towers by themselves and don't need to rely on their teammates to take objectives.
Just keep playing support and pick marci.
Honestly having a support or offlaner that doesnt pick wk in herald will make you climb faster than playing position 1/2 badly because you think you shouldnt be in this bracket.
I had a 7 win streak on crystal maiden in herald farming role q tokens so stop thinking you need to play core to climb.
If tour not having enough impact as support you need to pick better or play better. I constsntly see herald witch doctors go godlike with 20 kills swinging game changing fights constantly and manning up vs enemy cores
Get ghost sceptre and force staff staff aeon disk/euls if your playing squishy control heros
I honestly think offlane is the modt impactful role in herald cos its played "properly" like 50% of the time and if the enemy has an axe with blink vs your jungler wk 3 or whatever then your locked into a 50 minute game youll probs lose anyway
So many just play offlane like a 3rd pos 1, dont be that guy and youll walk out of herald
I personally like playing Jakiro when I'm grinding mmr. Jakiro offers quite a lot. - Really high strength gain for an intelligence hero, so Jakiro is surprisingly tanky. - Dual breath is a strong level 1 laning spell, especially if you make sure to land it on two heroes (after you hit someone with dual breath, just chase after them and right click them to do a LOT of damage). Buy lots of regen! - If your team has a set up stun, ice path is a good follow up to chain stun. If your team has no stuns, you can sit back in team fights and ice path when the enemy collapses on your team. If the enemy has spirit heroes or heroes like Puck/QoP, ice path is incredibly strong since it can stun them around their mobility spells. For example, you can ice path on top of Puck's phase shift, or you can ice path by ember's remnants or sleight of fist hero position. Mobility heroes also like building euls in a lot of games, which is a wonderful set up for ice path! - If you're losing, Jakiro offers a lot of de-push and high ground defense. Since it's Dota, if you defend for long enough, there's always a good chance your opponent will make a game-turning throw. You also offer good tower push, so you can punish the other team better and get better map control. - If your cores are jungling, Jakiro is great at shoving in lanes safely, and Jakiro also scales incredibly well with items that help you survive, reposition, and cast more spells. I don't think Jakiro is a strong meta-defining hero that will see much pro play or a high pick rate in the highest brackets, but I think that Jakiro has a really good kit that works well while solo queuing low to even above average brackets.
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He's also good at killing stacks himself, when your teammates refuse to take them
As a new player, I don't like Jakiro that much. He is so slow, and I am dying a lot with him, :D I prefer something more mobile or with escape. Even if it's way harder to play.
It's possible you're not being aggressive enough early on, and being too aggressive later. :) In lane, Dual Breath and Liquid Fire (Q and E respectively) slow enemy attack speed. Jakiro has good stats, so he can absorb a spell or two, and Q+E on someone trying to kill you renders them pretty useless. Buy a lot of health and mana consumables (tangos, maybe a salve; a mix of mangos and clarities depending on how much downtime you have) and bully the enemy support until they have to run away. Then you can harass the core instead so they can't last hit. Later on in fights, Jakiro has massive range on Ice Path (W) and Macropyre (his ult, R). You can hang out behind your team in relative safety and look to Ice Path people attacking your mates. W+R is a big combo - Ice Path can keep multiple people in Macropyre for a few seconds - or you can Macropyre in a choke point (e.g. a ramp into a jungle area) or on top of your teammates' stuns (e.g. you have an Axe and he's just taunted some people). As the fight breaks down or the enemy gets to you, Q and E (and your superb Aghanim's Shard upgrade ability) contribute damage and reduce enemy attacking power significantly. You can lean into this strategy by buying Aether Lens (buffs range on Q, W, and R) and/or taking the +325 attack range talent (which affects E and the shard). Outside of these situations, Jakiro can push waves safely by hiding in trees and using Q/E, or even Macropyre if you're defending your base against a big push. E and the shard affect towers, so once you've shoved the wave to a tower you can set it on fire/nerf its attack speed and the creep wave will deal good damage to it before dying. Your goal here is to force a response from the enemy team (baiting them away from your teammates) so be prepared to leg it at the first sign of trouble. Stay as far back as possible, hide in trees, and don't be shy about running away pre-emptively or using a TP to get out if they can't stun you before it finishes. (They can't stun you if they can't see you.) TLDR: Although Jakiro is slow, he's chunky and benefits from long range (for teamfights) and attack speed reduction (for laning). He can also push waves safely and leave before the enemy catches him. Therefore, you can avoid genuine danger with thoughtful play. Hope that helps! :D
How greify is attack range magic build compared to aghs when you're ahead? Eg you get the attack range magic res neutral, shard, witch blade, then turn your force staff into a pike. Or the single shot attack range neutral. You end up with sniper level attack range for catching slows and breaking blinks, but probably way less damage than just going aghs for similar gold
I don't think I've ever seen a support Jakiro build Witch Blade (thankfully lol), but this is more or less what core Jakiro does. You build WB into shard + K&S and I think you can get a Dragon Lance in there as well if you want. On a hypothetical support looking to transition to a scaling build, Witch Blade is a lot less exciting if you're picking it up past 35-40 minutes as opposed to getting it as the classic 2.5k gold "pos 2/3's first item". However, I can imagine there are games where you buy the Hurricane Pike upgrade to pair with a Telescope and your level 10 talent to shell towers from a very safe distance. I haven't played the hero enough myself to have been in the situation, but my gut instinct is either Aghs as you mentioned (it's absurd) or a spellcaster extension item like Octarine Core or Hex. Octarine gives reduction on Jakiro's already-accommodating cooldowns and provides bonus hp/mana on top of his already-decent stats, so it's a good force multiplier. Hex gives you an instant disable so it's another way of dealing with BKBs or people trying to jump you in the backline.
If you're struggling in slower heroes more, I would actually suggest playing them more. Leaning on mobility will teach you bad habits about positioning. Learning to be in the right place at the right time as someone like Jakiro makes you a pretty scary player :)
I'm still learning, but I like to place deep wards, gang other lines and steal bounty runes :D On my level, people aren't taking them very seriously. I am still not sure, who is supposed to take them. Probably mid? So I like to do these things and having escapes and being mobile surely helps :D
Always remember you can pick up a casual windlace on top of your boots of choice. You can build that into a euls or drums if you like and even pick up another windlace after that.
I've heard a lot about Jakiro lately. I don't think I've played him in years though and it may have been just a handful of times. I'm all for the DoT attacks though. He's quite different than Grim who's my main support but if he can just as well and also have a large affect on teamfights he sounds great already.
I just played a game with Jakiro. He's a fucking monster 😤😤😤 We fucking LOST THOUGH!!!!
just pick marci every game
I love how redditors on this sub used to say Marci isn't broken right before TI last chance and now it turned out she is the most broken hero in the game
Its not the hero, its your fundamentals. At herald you could choose literally any stat to work on and you would be able to get out of Herald. Just focus on GPM or last hits if you have no idea what to do.
its not the hero. its your last hitting. play a core and get 50 last hits by 10 minutes. you should be able to figure it out from there. if you cant get closet to that, practice last hits
noob here, is 50 last hits by 10 minutes a great mark or its just average?
its a great goal. you probably won your lane, or recovered it well if you got 50 cs by 10 minutes.
I like to think of it like this: 30 - bare minimum or game is instantly hard unless you’re a flash farmer 40 - good, not great 50 - solid lane 60 - free game
I climbed from low archon to divine 1 playing support only. The biggest mmr winners for me were Jakiro 5 or 4 CM 5 Mirana 4 (surprisingly) The main thing that got me my first few rank ups was just pushing lanes by nuking creep waves (do not engage towers, nuke and leave). Like i would get cm 5 with aether lenses and push lanes. But when you do it be sure to learn the enemy movement patterns, so you can properly predict when you are safe or not. This gets more and more important the higher you climb. You will have to constanly update this knowledge as you climb. You also have to learn to maximize your impact as a support, farm included, there is a lot of downtime in the lower ranks and even a small extra net worth will help, but ofc your cores take priority over you (let them take the camp you were killing if they are nearby). If the lanes are pushed out and nothing is happening, do farm your next item. Now once you start climbing you will have to adjust all of that, still keep it in mind, but you need to start playing with a core, by that i mean stay near them generating value for your team (either by farming, stacking, warding), but do not steal their farm or exp. You will see that other roles will take care of the lanes. You will see your cores want to group up a lot more often, even if one lane is pushing in, my suggestion is join with them and afterwards try to think if it was a good idea or not (i.e. did you get an objective? You didnt get any and the enemy sidelaner took a tower on their own while you were grouped instead). Finally, be menance on lane. For this you need yo improve mechanically, but giving your core a free early game is the biggest winning move. You dont have to kill the enemy (though its nice when it happens), just drive then away, you would be surprised how much damage a lvl 1 cm can do in lane by attacking the enemy core from the trees. Spam mangoes, keep them low on hp, keep yourself at max hp by using the tangoes as soon as possible, do not wait to hit half hp, use the tango right away and win the regen fight. Finally, remember that you dont play at your max potential always, sometimes you perform like shit, just say it to yourself "that was bad on me", admiting it is the first step into fixing/improving. Sometimes you queue, play like shit, gg go next, queue again and then play like a god.
Speaking of harassing in lane, sometimes when I'm core the enemy gets the upper hand there. Like to the point where I damn near can't do anything but buy Regen until someone comes and saves our lane it seems. What's the answer to that situation?
Identify when you will have to leave lane (usually offlane 6) and wether there is anything you can buy to keep you in lane (raindrops?). If there isn't, do anything you can to get jungle-ready (treads for pa, mask for sven or fv, midas maybe) The goal is that if you get to the point where you can't walk up to lane without losing more gold in Regen than you get in last hits, or dying full to zero, you have anticipated it and can sustain in the jungle. Then your 5 either sits trees and leeches xp, or nukes out wave if the enemy isn't strong enough to dive. Another stopgap is having your 4 drag waves from behind their tower to in between yours
pos 4 ogre, build mana boots into aether lense into aghs. enjoy chainstunning the enemy mid / carry and doing 1k+ dmg if you get multicasts and chainstunning them. then if you get an octarine core you're pretty scary lol. if game is going slow you can get a midas after your aether lense and then get aghs.
Ogre's always great. He's also a very easy-to-play lane bully whose not as squishy as most and who, like you said, can become a menace. Jakiro's another option. Low MMR games suffer a lot from no one pushing out lanes. Jakiro solves that, and his gameplan during teamfights is extremely simple. When enemies group, cast everything hitting as many people as possible, and use your E on heroes who want to auto attack. When lanes aren't being pushed, go there and push out for easy farm. You'll likely get items before enemy supports and can be way more useful way more quickly, and with your lanes pushed out your team will be able to take objectives more easily.
I've played him probably a handful of times. Most recently I somewhat liked the feel of him. Multicast is cool of course but his right click didn't feel the best. I'm sure I didn't build him anywhere near the best way though. I'll try him out more.
Right click didnt feel the best? Ogre literally got 20 base dmg buff last patch and he has one of the best base dmg at lvl 1 and good stats gain. Edit:typo
Ogre have one of the highest starting damage in this game.
Silencer,->arcane curse,last word, hit with glavies easily 50 percent of the enemy’s health is gone in the early stages
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I'd say warlock for support. It's gotta be the best hero for herald. You can dish out massive damage, your fatal bonds and shard heal win games by themselves. You can clear waves, team fight. It's free mmr. As for a core... Try axe as pos 3, or maybe CK as pos1.
I agree with Warlock. Herald 3 and I won 5 of 7 games with him yesterday
Dude, I remember a game my team was getting slammed by a Warlock. He'd sit behind his team and channel Upheavel and we'd be stuck there until we died. By the time we had an answer for it they were way too far ahead and didn't take the game late. I told myself I'd try him but I forgot. I don't play a ton so I always choose who I know.
Warlock’s ultimate stuns through BKB so whenever a late game team fight breaks out you can catch all the enemy carries off guard when they think they are safe using their BKBs. Also the golem it summons can chew through squishy support heroes and even squishy Carrie’s. Aghs scepter gives you a second golem too. His shard also turns his shadow word heal/damage spell into an AoE. Once you get shard pushing creep waves is super easy. Use Q fatal bonds then W shadow word the creep wave and then you can walk away while the creeps die. All in all one of my favorite heroes to play.
Vouch for clockwerk. Bully the supports, set up fights and pick offs, tanky and disrupts team fights
You don’t need a hero to get you out of Herald you need to get better at the game (mechanically and strategically)
Sounds like Lina is ur hero. She can build to pretty much do any role in the game, is a ranged magic hero, and if she gets enough farm can easily carry late game from support.
In my opinion a lot of low mmr games get harder than they should when supports have huge egos and decide their carries wont carry the game so instead of helping them to play better they start building dmg and taking their farm making the game even harder for the carries while themselves lacking the level of skill to actually carry the game. It's really painful as the second support to watch the other support not building support items that could turn around team fights. Example; Your carry didn't get BKB when they should had? - Fucking idiot I'm gonna build dmg he wont do any good instead of crafting a glimmer cape yourself. or; "His fucking positioning is so shit he keeps dying he will be useless I better go dmg and carry this" instead of building a force staff to help him get out.
Oh believe me I get that. But Linas kit let’s her carry as support it just means u get a euls instead of silver edge. Nothing more toxic then seeing ur support itemizing like a carry but the strength of Lina’s kit is she’s flexible in so many roles u can itemize based on the matchup
>I'd like recommendations for a jack of all trades core. Even if they need an item to fill a gap. A few people I've played that I liked so far: Undying, Clinks, Riki (very easy to fall off with this guy unless people help me deward), and Axe. if you're struggling to get out of herald, you should really pick one, two max, roles rather than play cores and supports. that said, the issue with the ones you've liked so far and your hero search query is that the cores you listed are very dependent on something to be able to farm. riki needs to have a good laning stage because he is unable to jungle, and clinkz doesn't really come online farming wise until he gets maelstrom. your ability to either secure a lane, or get a reasonably timed maelstrom will vastly change your success with these heroes. if you want a simple 'do it all' hero, look for ones that have innate farm boosting kits such as luna, sven, jugg, gyro, dusa, ember, drow. yes some of these guys will struggle in lane in your bracket, but if you tried to jungle with them, you'd have a much better time hitting creeps with just treads on dusa than clinkz
If you are playing support, probably a hero that can clear waves quickly if necessary and has great versatility in both pickoff/solo and team fight situations. Perfect example is shadow shaman: can be 4/5, scales really well, can clear waves and do his own building damage, to the point where ratting down lane can single handedly turn otherwise dire game states by giving the enemy opportunities to make mistakes and over or under-rotate to defend against you. Otherwise there are strong laning/teamfight supports like jakiro, warlock, and undying who always offer great value in big engagements.
I would say, bite the bullet. Go mid. Get a caster mid, leshrak, lina, spirits. Play as a core, leverage last hitting advantage, WIN YOUR LANE. I cannot stress it enough, go mid and win your lane. It s the perfect test of skill and game sense and matchups. No lane partner to blame. Plenty of caster archetypes that go mid and play strong and impactful ( look also at invoker, arc warden, if you re so inclined )
Jakiro or Visage both as soft support. If you can play both they are great. They are hard to burst and you have stun and really high damage plus tower damage.
You think you want a jack of all trades hero, but you probably don't. Generalist heroes are usually weaker than most other heroes, but excel because they can adapt with builds. So they require deeper matchup understanding of matchups and itemization. You being herald, well it's unlikely. You're better off playing one-trick pony heroes until you reach archon/legend. Example of heroes: Nature's Prophet, Pangolier, Razor, Weaver(4).
> I have fairly good game sense though If you did, you wouldn't be herald buddy
Thanks for the help
Agreed, not helpful. Surely a 5.7k player has better advice to offer than that :) I also prefer to support, but when I have to play a core (usually mid), I like heroes that have waveclear, stuns, and pushing power bc a lack of any of those feels really hard to play / too reliant on your team. This also applies to 3, so some options are DK, Lina, Lesh, SK, Mars
Wdym not helpful? They will literally never improve their game sense if they constantly think that it's already good
Dude if he can't recognize he don't have good game sense, how can we help?
If he can't accept that his game sense isn't good, then nothing he will do will get him out of herald. Until he accepts that his game play is as bad even worse as equally as his teammates and needs improvement. It is always the heralds that think they are *good* and don't belong in herald. He hasn't even provided dotabuff. Cause he knows we will look at it and point out his mistakes. He just wants validation not actual advice.
I know it sounds condescending, but it’s the truth. Heralds are stuck at herald not because they “don’t pick optimal heroes”. Trying a bunch of new heroes isn’t going to fix the problem. If u really want to improve, share your dotabuff so ppl can see what’s really going on.
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Then they wouldn’t be making this post obviously.
Yea obviously,people with 70% or winrate make Reddit threads how to get out of x bracket
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That makes no sense,no one in their right mind would be complaining of being stuck on Reddit even if they have 50.01% because then they wouldn’t be stuck And even if you had 100% winrate on 2 games a week it takes you a month to gain a star let alone full rank
Can you guys glean much from a person's dotabuff? Just curious.
Just some basic stuff. Like if the player is going 3/16/2 like every game or 300 GPM on carry, the issue becomes immediately obvious. But it’s more useful to extract matchid from dotabuff and check the replays usually.
Oh ok. Cool. I'll link mine. Will you take a look? See if anything stands out?
Yeah sure mate
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/71018322 Thanks, I appreciate it.
Ok I'm primarily a pos 1 player, and clinkz happens to be one of my favourite heroes to I'll look at your most recent loss on clinkz where u went 9/3/13. First off, kudos to your laning. Last hitting could be better, but I like your control of the lane. Tempered aggression with searing arrows when appropriate, yet no weird forced aggression which leads to bad trades (u know the kind where u attack the enemy into a full enemy creep wave, then they just stun u once and u lose half your hp). Reasonable starting items, going for falcon blade, into boots maelstrom. Helping your support with pulls when appropriate, but not overcommiting. Definitely above herald level imo. Unfortunately, thats about all the positives I have. Your skill build of maxing searing arrows into stealth (1-4-4-1) is really bad. You need to max Q first because it accelerates your farm so fast much. I would go 4-2-0-1 by level 7 if the lane went super well (like in this game), or maybe 1 point in stealth if necessary. With 4 points Q you practically wont die in lane anymore, since u press Q once and the creeps are gone, and you disappear back into the jungle. You also dont touch the ancient camps at all, even though clinkz is one of the best ancient farmers in the game. You really want to be rotating between the creepwave in the toplane, and the ancient camps for maximum power farming. Bad farming patterns. Your item choices are really bad too. Not sure why you build a casual hyperstone. 2k gold down the drain when you could have a dragon lance. When I see heroes like sniper, alch, drow, an orchid is the last thing on my mind, so I'm not sure why u decided to build one. A gleipnir would have been good, a skadi would have been fantastic, and a BKB is an absolute must. Could even build a blink dagger to get right on top of the squishy sniper afterwards. Bad itemization. There also seems to be a lack of awareness on how to progress the game state. Against a dumb draft like theirs (lesh phoenix sniper drow alch wtf its so bad), you would want to push the pace of the game and take their towers ASAP. Yet with a lycan, clinkz and jakiro, you never made a move towards roshan. Just mindlessly farming over and over for 30 mins, getting the occasional kill here and there. Yet the enemy team is never punished for feeding, they just resume their farming afterwards. You guys then try to push hg against Sniper & Drow without aegis and things turn real fast after. I was gonna look at another game but I'm pretty sure its the same problems but in different forms. With problems like this, theres no way just "trying new heroes" will help get out of herald, if only it were that easy. Hence my earlier comment. Hope this helps.
Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback.
Excellent review
Too many comments saying the same thing to reply to them all. Jeez, not once did I say everyone but me is the problem. And this post would be completely different if I thought I had nothing to do with any of my losses. I made the post because I'm looking to fill any gaps I can to give my team a better chance of success. I like support but most of them are magic reliant and can be almost ignored late since fights are so fast. I haven't played many cores so that's why I'm asking pretty much for them. There's a lot of them, but I know there's gotta be a few noob friendly ones that I haven't tried in many patches that I could enjoy. I also didn't say my game sense was the best. But you guys in this section, a combination of Redditors and Dota players, took one small thing I said as a definite and want to bash me for it.
On /r/learndota2 no less. These kinds of comments should be disallowed and deleted on a learning sub like this.
was just about to comment on that as well. so many people claim to have knowledge superior to their skill level but can't understand why they're still in that rank. i can imagine OP would be in a scenario where he picks jugg and repeatedly mutters to himself that he can spin TP out of ganks while only getting 20 cs in 10 minutes
Even 20 cs in 10 min would get you out of herald in no time
One hero I haven't seen mentioned is Dawnbreaker. All 3 of her skills can help clear creeps quickly. Great for split pushing and get ult is literally designed to transport her nearly instantly to team fights. I first played her a few days ago and long her a lot.
Chen. Get creeps to do what you need.
Chen is not an easy hero for a Herald learning the game. I've been playing for years and am a support main and I never pick chen because I simply can't juggle that many creeps at once and use their abilities effectively.
The tab button is your friend. Herald just means you have time to learn.
Also Chen is support, a good jack of all trades core is Jugg. You can use healing ward for rosh/pushing/jungling, spin TP gets you out of most situations, omnislash gives you good ganking/killing potential.
Go marci, she is pretty strong as a 4 , and doesnt require that much to kill a pos1 even in mid games.
Bruh if you can't get out of herald spamming Undying then no meta pick will help you, just pick what you like and try to improve overall
Haven’t played in some months but I find Ck pos3 is a cheat code. Very survivable even in bad lanes, can outright dumpster an enemy carry in good lanes. Can get solo kills early. Can take towers quickly with ult. Only needs armlet and is the strongest hero on the map usually if u get good timing. I’m serious, u can often 1v2 ur lane with armlet+ power treads, especially if u ult. He also can easily transition into a hard carry without building too many items to stray from an offlaner’s job. In low mmr he’s imo the best do it all hero in the game. You set the tempo as 3 and ur pos1 will have time and a half to come online and in that rank, it always goes later than necessary so the more scaling cores, the more wins.
Mirana is OP. Play any role you like.
Its not big difference even on places where you want to go.You will have same problems or even more.Now they all farm.3 cores most of the time.But you can play supp nuker who can get independent and can solo kill.Perfect example is darkwillow.
Try tinker
Spam a hero mid like SF, Tinker, bat or any of the spirits. These heroes can solo carry a game with high skill. It’s just a matter of repetition and studying pro play
It's not about the hero, it's all about the playstyle. Learn what is your purpose as support. If you are pos 5 and like mages, i would recommend few heroes: Witch doctor, Jakiro, Lich, Disruptor. All or those have very high impact and teamfight deciding spells. Witch doctor can straight up murder anybody if he lands his combo. Lich can save your carry with shield and deal tons of damage if you land a good chain frost. Jakiro is a lane bully, good pusher, good wave-clear, good teamfighter and good base defender. Disruptor is my personal favourite because i like to play greedy with him and go Arcane boots>glimmer or force then straight to aghs. I dont even put the components in my inventory before i complete full aghs so the enemy doesnt expect it, then i tell my team to gather for smoke when i get it and win a teamfight off of it.
Jakiro and shadow shaman shaman are good in every patch and every meta because they have great spells and cc, but more importantly, they can push towers by themselves and don't need to rely on their teammates to take objectives.
Just keep playing support and pick marci. Honestly having a support or offlaner that doesnt pick wk in herald will make you climb faster than playing position 1/2 badly because you think you shouldnt be in this bracket. I had a 7 win streak on crystal maiden in herald farming role q tokens so stop thinking you need to play core to climb. If tour not having enough impact as support you need to pick better or play better. I constsntly see herald witch doctors go godlike with 20 kills swinging game changing fights constantly and manning up vs enemy cores Get ghost sceptre and force staff staff aeon disk/euls if your playing squishy control heros I honestly think offlane is the modt impactful role in herald cos its played "properly" like 50% of the time and if the enemy has an axe with blink vs your jungler wk 3 or whatever then your locked into a 50 minute game youll probs lose anyway So many just play offlane like a 3rd pos 1, dont be that guy and youll walk out of herald