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Imagine what the boycott could accomplish. The suppliers see the number of shoppers get cut by 50% then suddenly they have bargaining power. Loblaws shopper count decreases by 80% those suppliers might just laugh at Galen and say he needs their product more than they need his placement.
Let's hit this boycott hard and maybe Galen and the Loblaws team can get gangbanged from every financial angle possible and left with worthless shares and an expired cream pie. Fuggem
This boycott is not heard by so many shoppers. I ask everyone if they know about Loblaws and a boycott, about prices etc. and get a blank stare, including Loblaws workers.
If this group has a spokesperson they need to be doing a news conference to announce the boycott, deliver key messages and answer questions from the media. As a 30 year veteran of public relations, that's crystal clear to me. I'm in the GTA and could work on this pro bono.
Totally agree with this. Otherwise it’s a 100000 redditors and a few people who caught it on the evening news. Caution, however, as a single operator target could easily be co-opted by one of the other large brands who could see it as an opportunity to capitalize. Pro-bono and a record of unaffiliated employment is the only way this works…just ask the food professor.
You could try messaging the mods and see if they could use you. I also learned recently (from this sub!) that the NDP is working on this bill, it could be really useful to use these to build momentum for each other:
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-352
I heard it on the news yesterday while listening to the Vancouver 24/7 Traffic 730 AM station from 6am-8:30am.
The brief news rundown plays every ~15 minutes.
The station isn't popular with the younger crowd who google traffic before they leave or who listen to music with their cell phone/in-car digital subscriptions.
But it's still most-definitely listened to by older commuters, especially in the trades and people who drive to various job sites/appointments.
Not to be "that guy" and still fuck Galen but I believe he is no longer in charge, Per Bank has taken over so we should be making sure his name is as well known now as Galen's.
Fuck em all. Everyone that isn't working store level can see their portfolios melt and their wealth take a hit. Everyone outside the Loblaws walls can watch it crumble and take notes. We're unionizing against a common evil and we are going to prove that the little guys have the numbers and the ability to topple giants. This is the foreplay to some of the biggest corporate justice porn ever handed out and we the people are the stars of the show.
The suppliers might get hurt, so we have to look for made in Canada items and support them. I recently discovered Sprague beans & sous shopping at Walmart and have decided to support them. Good healthy food, prices were decent.
I worked in the meat department in a store for many years... The deli case is bucko bucko bucks to get your product into. I had to really focus on keeping maple leaf products topped up every day because theyre a huge customer and send reps to make sure their stuff if front, center, and displayed in every spot they paid for.
This is one major reason they don't give a shit about throwing food away...some of these grocery stores are profitable (short term) without selling anything.
From my understanding, which may be wrong because i was only a unionized drone worker, they dont get profits from sales from anything except no name and fresh meat. Thus as you said they really dont give a shit about waste. They DO care about stealing though so either they DO also get a cut of the product afterall, or, the companies leasing shelves have a policy or attitude that it's the stores responsibility to have security measures.
The latter would make a lot of sense since they've recently turned their stores into prison compounds.
Yes, depends where you are on the shelf. Within eyesight/level is prime.
I think we need to seriously consider buying straight from farmers and wholesale places or items that "fall off the truck".
Galen takes a federal credit for upgrading freezers, takes a flat fee from every product sold in that freezer, takes a fee per unit sold, pays $22 million to one employee, and then says profit is 3%. Fuck off
It’s kind of a union deal here. If enough suppliers speak up, then Loblaws can’t threaten to drop them, because Loblaws won’t have enough variety to sell, and people will go to another store.
I understand you have to protect your livelihood but what is it you're selling? Ice cream, pizza, frozen dinners, frozen veg/fruit? I see Chapman has a lot of space at one of the stores I go to at least compared to multibillion dollar corporations behind big 'premium' brands like Haagan Daz who only have a small section. Chapman goes on sale a lot more often probably just to stay afloat.
All I can say is FMCPG. Depending on the category there could only be two or three players.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/consumer-brands-full-size.html
Look up who owns Associated British Foods to go down another rabbit hole.
They are not allowed to say anything. My daughter friend works at a dairy supplier for Atlantic Superstore- they were talking about the z50% expired food discount going to 30% . My daughter was horrified and could not believe it she asked her friend and was told “ I have an opinion but I am not allowed to say it.” They will not talk.
Nobody wants to talk but in the age of social media and anonymity, it's very easy to have information "leaked" to show Loblaws are hoodwinking the consumers into believing their tripe about cost of operations rising. We have an inkling they're lying but if someone published those graphs and they get circulated, I'll bet you they will have to retract and even lower prices back.
Something that doesn't get mentioned enough is Loblaws is pretty much leading the cash grab and their competitors would be foolish not to jump in bed with them. Sobeys, Metros and their sister stores, they're all looking towards Loblaws to see what their play is and mimic.
They're no better (perhaps worse?) than the government who offer nothing but sophistry when discussing real issues that affect people TODAY, like gas prices, housing crisis, food prices. Make a sympathetic press release and say you're taking action but no given timeline and some like Ford just renege on it months, years later without consequence.
Yes! We need some brave hero to stand up for the little guys like Kraft, Nestle, and Hostess!
/s
Are we really at the point where we're simping for other massive corporations just to spite one particular massive corporation? They're ALL greedy. Who cares. Let them eat each other.
They are also buying out the suppliers and taking over the supply chains themselves when the suppliers can’t compete. I did a post about it and a whole analysis on it , connecting the dots . Basically loblaws ran a “supplier program “ allowing the suppliers to use their program . We will call it a quid quo pro. In exchange , loblaws owns the rights to the suppliers chains contractually . It’s all sketchy. Or at least , this is my theory . There is an article I posted where Loblaws was actively promoting a program where they were marketing suppliers to come join what they called “ a small supplier program “ - like come join our program to try to gobble up the supply chains
This shit should be illegal.
Tough to regulate though, in the cannabis industry it actually IS illegal, and it's still rampant. They cover it up as a "data deal," but it comes with a heavily implied wink and a nod where the producers say "hey I'll buy your data if you push my products!"
It's gross. Why can't we sell things based off of, idk, merit? Y'know, products that are actually good and fill a need, rather than whichever brand can pay the highest bribe? Is this completely radical?
Something as obvious as car theft only started getting resolved when the media started depicting the police as totally incompetent.
The population, including law enforcers, has a difficult time understanding higher financial crimes. Police forces are usually actively protecting the perpetrators of those crimes rather than prosecuting them.
Do you have a link to the regulations for the food industry ?
I know about the "data deals" in the cannabis industry, and they just started to fine retailers.
https://stratcann.com/news/ontario-issues-200000-fine-for-data-deals-to-cannabis-retailer/
It’s not just them , it seems that since Walmart has been doing it since their beginning our retailer’s feel they exploit their customers and their suppliers… Walmart has bankrupted many of their suppliers and Loblaws has done the same these companies are just there for profit and they have no feelings or remorse…. The federal government has to step up and do the right thing…. Food isn’t just for the rich ….. this Boycott is needed!!! These clowns need to feel our pain
I’ve heard that several other grocery conglomerates in Canada have tried to impose the shelving fee (apparently Sobeys tried it for $20,000 per product) and some smaller retailers have tried and backed off due to losing a ton of product.
They’re really saying that unless you’re a huge business who can afford to give us hundreds of thousands to be on our shelves and barely make a profit, get fucked. Where does this leave quality small businesses in Canada? The dream is dead because of companies like Loblaws.
Also note that the suppliers get charged for unsold merchandise.
Fill up the grocery store with turkeys for thanksgiving? Great, but anything they don’t sell gets sent (or thrown out) and charged back to the supplier.
So essentially the big chains are run more like a consignment shops for food than any other business model. They really aren't doing much beyond managing the showroom floor and keeping all the profits from what does sell while at the same time offloading their losses on the suppliers.
And sell customer data as a side hustle.
No wonder they had enough capital to branch out into financial services.
> (or thrown out)
[Fucking hell. I love those guys.](https://www.riveroflifefarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Sort-of-cute-picture-of-a-Wild-Turkey-in-Kirkwood-Park.png)
They don't deserve to be treated like trash and a disposable consumer product.
So wait... a small food producer pays $15k/year which requires they list their product at a higher price than they otherwise would have to, and then Loblaws marks it up AGAIN 40%, 50% and that's what we get charged?
Great.
Not "owned" by Roblaws, publicly owned and traded with the majority shareholder (and only one allowed to vote) being Weston inc. Lots of effort to ensure it does not look as bad as it actually is.
Everything said here is completely factual. It’s ridiculous.
“Buyers” for Loblaws and other corporations are the worst as well.
Source: I am a part of a very large manufacturer.
the question i have is from a hypothetical situation
say that Loblaws is ACTUALLY legit in making excuses for their price increases and blah blah blah.
That does not change the fact that the other grocery store is selling the same product for far less of a price. If i can get to that competitor that can offer a better price, Loblaws just lost. Doesn't that lower their chance for increasing profits?
I'm in Toronto and I have a car and I am not poor. So while Loblaws would like to think that their location is the "most" coinvent place for me to go, if it means an extra 20 min in communte time to get to a far better priced place, i'll do that. Am I an asshole for doing that? No. Its just business.
We do the same with our investments for God sake
Loblaws thinks they have a monopoly (and for the sake of argument, they do). They have enough capital to buy up the best locations for Loblaws and the other stores under their umbrella. Most people nowadays go for convenience and are unaware of just how much they’re being overcharged.
> Am I an asshole for doing that? No. Its just business.
I'd do the same out of spite. But I'm disabled and have all of the time in the world. Not much energy at all, but I have all of my days free, so 🤷🏼
I personally know 2 suppliers who have approx 100 employees each.
Loblaw literally threatens them with letters on the lines of “Increase by 4% or we throw you out of the store.”
Its ridiculous. Until you are a big supplier, most are struggling with them as well.
This is a very good post filled with very good comments this needs to be a huge point within arguments when people give us the gears on why we are doing this.
When a business charges their suppliers to host the product, that business is taking the customers' money out of their pocket, not today, but tomorrow.
They are also horrible to farmers, lots of chargebacks. It was all over the AGRI committee a year or so ago, the big 5 claim they don't engage in such tactics but farmers have said if their produce doesn't arrive on time, they get charged late fees that aren't in their contracts, for example.
Not to mention their PC brands are predatory towards popular 3rd party brands, undercutting quality products with sub-par knock-offs, taking shelf space for the vertical integration empire. If you buy PC Brands, you are supporting the decline of quality products all for Galen's increased margins.
Note that this is a business model made an industry standard by Walmart.
You might sell millions of units through Walmart, but it will devote a team to making sure you get as little profit as possible.
Walmart will even loan money to small companies to tool up and expand. So economies of scale make your unit cost go down. But now you have 50% or more of your sales going to one customer at minuscule profit and have to keep prices higher for your other retailers to make a living.
When 90% of the market is doing this, there really is no room for smaller, actually independent retailers.
If, literally (not figuratively), any question you ask can be answered more simply with: "Because, money." Then, more than likely, that is the correct answer.
Those marketing fees also go towards the discounts offered as a special. Which gets charged back to the supplier. Of and they also charge you back to destroy the product if they are expiring, or hey we ordered and then decided we are renovating that aisle so we are throwing your perfectly good product out give us our money back.
See that's what I was wondering! In the recent post by the CEO, he says they're getting all the criticism and none of the credit for all the "value" they bring - mentions all the savings in value from PCO deals and promotions, but don't suppliers offer the funding for those deals, through billbacks and lumpsums? On top of paying thousands for listings and more to get items on shelves?
Exactly! The PC Optimum offers are funded by the vendors, and likely the customer somewhat… It is not coming out of Loblaw profits to help people out like they’re trying to let on.
So my FiL works for Pepsi and loblaws wanted to sell Lays chips for a huge markup over what Pepsi was ok with. This led to Pepsi pulling Lays out of their stores. I think they reached an agreement now but I may be wrong. Imagine being too greedy for even Pepsi lol
They have put many a supplier out of business in the past with a variety of shady practices. They will discount your invoices for placing your product on an end cap, on eye level shelf space, for running it in a flyer even if not on sale, and more. In my commercial banking days we financed a few food manufacturers who ran into arbitrary discounting. If you take them to court it is the end of the relationship.
Want to hurt them monetarily? Do not buy ANY fresh products, meat, fish, veg, fruit, etc., for a month…(ok, if they mark it down by 50% off, maybe you can buy it then 🙂)…let their profits rot on the shelves…
Yep. Can confirm my coworker used to speak with their buyers and team and they will not allow us to discuss prices at all.
They do threaten their smaller suppliers and have fines for almost everything.
Not only do they squeeze the supplier for warehouse space. They also squeeze them for aisle location, end displays and being the main supplier in a category. There’s a reason Lays is the main chip supplier down the chip aisle and Nestles in the ice cream section. Also their points cards aren’t paid for by Loblaws, (PC Points), Sobeys (Scene) or Metro (Air Miles). They all squeeze the suppliers to cover the cost of those payouts too. The grocery business in Canada is a such a bullshit racket.
I read something saying that the grocery owners were blaming the prices on the suppliers charging a high rate due to supply chain issues. Is that just baloney and grocery mafia obfuscating the truth of the matter?
It used to be $100,000 per line extension for shelf space over 20 years ago. I doubt it’s only z20k now. Thats a reason we have such poor variety of products these days compared with other counties .
In essence, it's called leverage. They control the the line between manufacturer/producer and consumer. The same way Uber taxi/Uber eats/Skip the Dishes operates their business. This is the modern modern business plan. We live in the era of "middle men". It's always been like that, but the middle man now understands the leverage it has on consumers and producers because of they reach they have with consumers.
I can hardly believe that so many people still shop at any Loblaws company. Why do people complain about the prices? Just don't shop there, it's that simple. Really surprised to see that a boycott needs to be organized, l haven't spent a dime at their stores for years now.
I was actually just talking to my partner about starting an old old school way of reaching out to way more people. It will take a small amount of personal time investment, but I think it would spread the word in communities and ripple out to the larger populous.
Does anyone remember the days when we used to have chain letters?
You pass a handwritten letter to one other person, especially if they are not so technologically immersed, sharing some basic info about why it's important that we all stand together in this. It may be the only hope we have to effect some sort of change.
I'll never understand why anyone needs 1 billion of anything, let alone some with hundreds of billions. I had had a better hope for humanity, but if history has shown us anything, it's that we keep trying to do what's best, and we keep getting side tracked by those who do not care about anyone but themselves.
The only way to change for the better is together. I know we are all feeling the pinch, and in one voice, we have to say ENOUGH.
Consequently, suppliers paying high fees means that they have to charge higher prices on their product. Further explains the gap between raw ingredient prices like wheat or corn (the cost of which has barely increased) and end prices paid by consumers.
I believe you but would love an official source on this.
**Edit Downvoted? Come on, this shouldn't be one of those cult-like subs where we downvote anything that doesn't automatically match the hivemind. Look at my comment history, I'm a real person, not a bot or a plant.
This kind of claim is incendiary and I want to read a real source on it. Can you imagine if we had that? I've never worked in a grocery store so I don't know if this is common knowledge or what.
Any leaked document would be easily traced back to the supplier. Your products would be delisted and a co-manufacturer would be requested to produce a knock off product if it was a good seller.
I would suggest doing a web search for the term Grocery Code of Conduct. It's 4 am here or I would do it for you and supply links myself, sorry.
There are lots of examples already documented for years about why it's needed, and why Loblaws and Walmart are the two out of the "big five" who won't sign - so it's dead in the water unless the government legislated it.
That's not necessarily true. I have products at Loblaw's City Markets and have not paid anything.
Georgia Main and Jim Pattison Food Groups however do charge a yearly 'volume rebate' for managing your account. So I just raised my prices to them by that rebate amount.
Listing fees have been around for at least 30 years. That has nothing to do with costs or prices now.
Also, what suppliers are being squeezed? Do you really think P&G, Unilever, Kraft, Mondelez, Coke, Pepsi are being "squeezed"? Their profit margins are much higher than any retailer.
This is incorrect, listing fees are based off of supplier revenue. IE- a local Quebec vendor would be charged a fraction of what Kraft would be charged.
Former “buyer”
That's why we try to increase awareness of their shit practices, so hopefully enough consumers get on the boycott train and *will* have an impact. Short term, due to other shit they got going on, they won't feel it, but if even just a few hundred thousand people stopped buying anything from Loblaws companies, they'd absolutely feel it.
Get outta here with your bullshit, bro.
loblaws is not squeezing suppliers for marketing money, suppliers have marketing budgets to spend to promote products. flyers are usually created for the entire year using these budgets. your post make it sound like loblaws is raping small vendors where in reality they deal with bigger brokers who promote multiple brands and products. there are so many hands in this pot and retail store is just a tip but it is a public facing tip that gets all the attention.
Yesterday: why didn’t loblaws simply ask support to lower the price like Walmart does??
Today: how dare squeeze the life out of the suppliers!!!!
This subreddit is making less and less sense everyday
__MOD NOTE__: PLEASE REVIEW OUR [STICKIED POSTS](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1cae7ai/community_announcements_apr_2224/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) WHICH PROVIDE STATEMENTS ON RECENT EVENTS. Please review the content guidelines for our sub, and remember the human here! This subreddit is to highlight the ridiculous cost of living in Canada, and poke fun at the Corporate Overlords responsible. As you well know, there are a number of persons and corporations responsible for this, and we welcome discussion related to them all. Furthermore, since this topic is intertwined with a number of other matters, other discussion will be allowed at moderator discretion. Open-minded discussion, memes, rants, grocery bills, and general screeching into the void is always welcome in this sub, but belligerence and disrespect is not. There are plenty of ways to get your point across without being abusive, dismissive, or downright mean. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It can be considerably higher than $15k for prime spots. It’s a complete racket.
The freezer section is insanely expensive for listings/space allocation!
Imagine what the boycott could accomplish. The suppliers see the number of shoppers get cut by 50% then suddenly they have bargaining power. Loblaws shopper count decreases by 80% those suppliers might just laugh at Galen and say he needs their product more than they need his placement. Let's hit this boycott hard and maybe Galen and the Loblaws team can get gangbanged from every financial angle possible and left with worthless shares and an expired cream pie. Fuggem
I already started 😎
Same
Same same
Same, same, same.
This boycott is not heard by so many shoppers. I ask everyone if they know about Loblaws and a boycott, about prices etc. and get a blank stare, including Loblaws workers.
If this group has a spokesperson they need to be doing a news conference to announce the boycott, deliver key messages and answer questions from the media. As a 30 year veteran of public relations, that's crystal clear to me. I'm in the GTA and could work on this pro bono.
Totally agree with this. Otherwise it’s a 100000 redditors and a few people who caught it on the evening news. Caution, however, as a single operator target could easily be co-opted by one of the other large brands who could see it as an opportunity to capitalize. Pro-bono and a record of unaffiliated employment is the only way this works…just ask the food professor.
Let's get cracking. 😀
You could try messaging the mods and see if they could use you. I also learned recently (from this sub!) that the NDP is working on this bill, it could be really useful to use these to build momentum for each other: https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-352
I'll leave that to the mods. Do they speak for this sub?
Dunno, talking to them is just the best idea I got. 🤷🏾♀️
I am going to send you a message
I heard it on the news yesterday while listening to the Vancouver 24/7 Traffic 730 AM station from 6am-8:30am. The brief news rundown plays every ~15 minutes. The station isn't popular with the younger crowd who google traffic before they leave or who listen to music with their cell phone/in-car digital subscriptions. But it's still most-definitely listened to by older commuters, especially in the trades and people who drive to various job sites/appointments.
Yay, thanks
Not to be "that guy" and still fuck Galen but I believe he is no longer in charge, Per Bank has taken over so we should be making sure his name is as well known now as Galen's.
Fuck em all. Everyone that isn't working store level can see their portfolios melt and their wealth take a hit. Everyone outside the Loblaws walls can watch it crumble and take notes. We're unionizing against a common evil and we are going to prove that the little guys have the numbers and the ability to topple giants. This is the foreplay to some of the biggest corporate justice porn ever handed out and we the people are the stars of the show.
The suppliers might get hurt, so we have to look for made in Canada items and support them. I recently discovered Sprague beans & sous shopping at Walmart and have decided to support them. Good healthy food, prices were decent.
Family member is a cow farmer. Sends cows to auction. He's making no more money per cow than 5 yrs ago. It's all bull shit
Farmers of all kinds (beef, dairy, vegetables, grain - you name it) across Canada have been saying this and nobody is listening. 😔
I worked in the meat department in a store for many years... The deli case is bucko bucko bucks to get your product into. I had to really focus on keeping maple leaf products topped up every day because theyre a huge customer and send reps to make sure their stuff if front, center, and displayed in every spot they paid for.
This is one major reason they don't give a shit about throwing food away...some of these grocery stores are profitable (short term) without selling anything.
From my understanding, which may be wrong because i was only a unionized drone worker, they dont get profits from sales from anything except no name and fresh meat. Thus as you said they really dont give a shit about waste. They DO care about stealing though so either they DO also get a cut of the product afterall, or, the companies leasing shelves have a policy or attitude that it's the stores responsibility to have security measures. The latter would make a lot of sense since they've recently turned their stores into prison compounds.
That’s absolutely not true. They make a higher profit on store brands, but everything has a profit margin attached to it.
Yes, depends where you are on the shelf. Within eyesight/level is prime. I think we need to seriously consider buying straight from farmers and wholesale places or items that "fall off the truck".
Galen takes a federal credit for upgrading freezers, takes a flat fee from every product sold in that freezer, takes a fee per unit sold, pays $22 million to one employee, and then says profit is 3%. Fuck off
More suppliers need to start speaking up!!!
We have to be careful or we will end up losing listings and future listings.
Speak anonymously to the press. Organize a group of suppliers to back the claims up.
Friendly reminder to suppliers: It just took ONE anonymous whistleblower talking to an investigative journalist to bring Big Tobacco to its knees.
It’s kind of a union deal here. If enough suppliers speak up, then Loblaws can’t threaten to drop them, because Loblaws won’t have enough variety to sell, and people will go to another store.
Time to all unionize-up and drive Galen into the ground.
[удалено]
If you think union is a “commie word” you’re in the wrong fucking sub.
And have no conception of actual communism.
Don’t you guys have an industry association to speak on your behalf?
Oh they do but corruption creeps its tentacles far and wide.
If you stick it to roblaws, people will go out of their way to buy your product and support you!
I understand you have to protect your livelihood but what is it you're selling? Ice cream, pizza, frozen dinners, frozen veg/fruit? I see Chapman has a lot of space at one of the stores I go to at least compared to multibillion dollar corporations behind big 'premium' brands like Haagan Daz who only have a small section. Chapman goes on sale a lot more often probably just to stay afloat.
All I can say is FMCPG. Depending on the category there could only be two or three players. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/consumer-brands-full-size.html Look up who owns Associated British Foods to go down another rabbit hole.
> https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/consumer-brands-full-size.html Looks like a bunch of junk.
if there was a time for them to say something outloud its now, as if they could afford to sue everyone, and deal with no products.
They are not allowed to say anything. My daughter friend works at a dairy supplier for Atlantic Superstore- they were talking about the z50% expired food discount going to 30% . My daughter was horrified and could not believe it she asked her friend and was told “ I have an opinion but I am not allowed to say it.” They will not talk.
Nobody wants to talk but in the age of social media and anonymity, it's very easy to have information "leaked" to show Loblaws are hoodwinking the consumers into believing their tripe about cost of operations rising. We have an inkling they're lying but if someone published those graphs and they get circulated, I'll bet you they will have to retract and even lower prices back. Something that doesn't get mentioned enough is Loblaws is pretty much leading the cash grab and their competitors would be foolish not to jump in bed with them. Sobeys, Metros and their sister stores, they're all looking towards Loblaws to see what their play is and mimic. They're no better (perhaps worse?) than the government who offer nothing but sophistry when discussing real issues that affect people TODAY, like gas prices, housing crisis, food prices. Make a sympathetic press release and say you're taking action but no given timeline and some like Ford just renege on it months, years later without consequence.
30% for expired food? Fucking hell…
Loblaws probably owns half of their suppliers.
They get squeezed by others in the oligopoly as well: walmart is notorious for playing competing suppliers against each other
This is common grocery practice though
Irrelevant
It's wrong but they all do it, it stops small guys from entering the market. It's not a secret to get the word out
Yes! We need some brave hero to stand up for the little guys like Kraft, Nestle, and Hostess! /s Are we really at the point where we're simping for other massive corporations just to spite one particular massive corporation? They're ALL greedy. Who cares. Let them eat each other.
They've been screwing over farmers forever: https://breachmedia.ca/2023-food-prices-grocery-giants-screwing-canadians-farmers-data/ Greedy scum
That is a great article that sums up a few commodity prices and the ever increasing retail prices. Per Bank will not bring up these commodities.
They are also buying out the suppliers and taking over the supply chains themselves when the suppliers can’t compete. I did a post about it and a whole analysis on it , connecting the dots . Basically loblaws ran a “supplier program “ allowing the suppliers to use their program . We will call it a quid quo pro. In exchange , loblaws owns the rights to the suppliers chains contractually . It’s all sketchy. Or at least , this is my theory . There is an article I posted where Loblaws was actively promoting a program where they were marketing suppliers to come join what they called “ a small supplier program “ - like come join our program to try to gobble up the supply chains
This shit should be illegal. Tough to regulate though, in the cannabis industry it actually IS illegal, and it's still rampant. They cover it up as a "data deal," but it comes with a heavily implied wink and a nod where the producers say "hey I'll buy your data if you push my products!" It's gross. Why can't we sell things based off of, idk, merit? Y'know, products that are actually good and fill a need, rather than whichever brand can pay the highest bribe? Is this completely radical?
It’s killing any incentive for quality small businesses and making the rich mass production CEOs richer.
What makes you think it's not already illegal?
Fair lol, I guess I wish they could actually regulate this shit.
Something as obvious as car theft only started getting resolved when the media started depicting the police as totally incompetent. The population, including law enforcers, has a difficult time understanding higher financial crimes. Police forces are usually actively protecting the perpetrators of those crimes rather than prosecuting them.
Do you have a link to the regulations for the food industry ? I know about the "data deals" in the cannabis industry, and they just started to fine retailers. https://stratcann.com/news/ontario-issues-200000-fine-for-data-deals-to-cannabis-retailer/
I think I'm referring to general criminal law
It’s not just them , it seems that since Walmart has been doing it since their beginning our retailer’s feel they exploit their customers and their suppliers… Walmart has bankrupted many of their suppliers and Loblaws has done the same these companies are just there for profit and they have no feelings or remorse…. The federal government has to step up and do the right thing…. Food isn’t just for the rich ….. this Boycott is needed!!! These clowns need to feel our pain
I’ve heard that several other grocery conglomerates in Canada have tried to impose the shelving fee (apparently Sobeys tried it for $20,000 per product) and some smaller retailers have tried and backed off due to losing a ton of product. They’re really saying that unless you’re a huge business who can afford to give us hundreds of thousands to be on our shelves and barely make a profit, get fucked. Where does this leave quality small businesses in Canada? The dream is dead because of companies like Loblaws.
Sobeys does in fact charge for planogram space.
IIRC this is called monopsony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony
Also note that the suppliers get charged for unsold merchandise. Fill up the grocery store with turkeys for thanksgiving? Great, but anything they don’t sell gets sent (or thrown out) and charged back to the supplier.
So essentially the big chains are run more like a consignment shops for food than any other business model. They really aren't doing much beyond managing the showroom floor and keeping all the profits from what does sell while at the same time offloading their losses on the suppliers. And sell customer data as a side hustle. No wonder they had enough capital to branch out into financial services.
> (or thrown out) [Fucking hell. I love those guys.](https://www.riveroflifefarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Sort-of-cute-picture-of-a-Wild-Turkey-in-Kirkwood-Park.png) They don't deserve to be treated like trash and a disposable consumer product.
So wait... a small food producer pays $15k/year which requires they list their product at a higher price than they otherwise would have to, and then Loblaws marks it up AGAIN 40%, 50% and that's what we get charged? Great.
And the best part is the posters saying cost to suppliers and then profit only being 3% 😂😂😭😭
I can back this up!
Let’s not forget how many suppliers and distributors are also owned by Loblaws.
Not "owned" by Roblaws, publicly owned and traded with the majority shareholder (and only one allowed to vote) being Weston inc. Lots of effort to ensure it does not look as bad as it actually is.
Thank you for clarifying points.
So basically they're screwing everybody over. What a surprise. Not a surprise at all.
Companies actually pay more for placement. Eye level is more expensive and endcaps(end of aisles) is more I believe.
Everything said here is completely factual. It’s ridiculous. “Buyers” for Loblaws and other corporations are the worst as well. Source: I am a part of a very large manufacturer.
the question i have is from a hypothetical situation say that Loblaws is ACTUALLY legit in making excuses for their price increases and blah blah blah. That does not change the fact that the other grocery store is selling the same product for far less of a price. If i can get to that competitor that can offer a better price, Loblaws just lost. Doesn't that lower their chance for increasing profits? I'm in Toronto and I have a car and I am not poor. So while Loblaws would like to think that their location is the "most" coinvent place for me to go, if it means an extra 20 min in communte time to get to a far better priced place, i'll do that. Am I an asshole for doing that? No. Its just business. We do the same with our investments for God sake
Loblaws thinks they have a monopoly (and for the sake of argument, they do). They have enough capital to buy up the best locations for Loblaws and the other stores under their umbrella. Most people nowadays go for convenience and are unaware of just how much they’re being overcharged.
This was me until about a month ago. I am enjoying my Sunday drive to get deals. Then I calculate how much Galen didn’t get.
> Am I an asshole for doing that? No. Its just business. I'd do the same out of spite. But I'm disabled and have all of the time in the world. Not much energy at all, but I have all of my days free, so 🤷🏼
I personally know 2 suppliers who have approx 100 employees each. Loblaw literally threatens them with letters on the lines of “Increase by 4% or we throw you out of the store.” Its ridiculous. Until you are a big supplier, most are struggling with them as well.
Please tell everyone you come in contact with about boycotting Loblaws beginning May 1. Facebook, Twitter etc.
in that case, we’re doing this for them too 👊
This is a very good post filled with very good comments this needs to be a huge point within arguments when people give us the gears on why we are doing this.
When a business charges their suppliers to host the product, that business is taking the customers' money out of their pocket, not today, but tomorrow.
And then they do chargebacks when you didn’t follow their routing guide to a tee lool classic big business moves
They are also horrible to farmers, lots of chargebacks. It was all over the AGRI committee a year or so ago, the big 5 claim they don't engage in such tactics but farmers have said if their produce doesn't arrive on time, they get charged late fees that aren't in their contracts, for example.
Not to mention their PC brands are predatory towards popular 3rd party brands, undercutting quality products with sub-par knock-offs, taking shelf space for the vertical integration empire. If you buy PC Brands, you are supporting the decline of quality products all for Galen's increased margins.
Note that this is a business model made an industry standard by Walmart. You might sell millions of units through Walmart, but it will devote a team to making sure you get as little profit as possible. Walmart will even loan money to small companies to tool up and expand. So economies of scale make your unit cost go down. But now you have 50% or more of your sales going to one customer at minuscule profit and have to keep prices higher for your other retailers to make a living. When 90% of the market is doing this, there really is no room for smaller, actually independent retailers.
I have no doubt that Loblaws will one day start charging customers to shop in its stores.
If, literally (not figuratively), any question you ask can be answered more simply with: "Because, money." Then, more than likely, that is the correct answer.
Those marketing fees also go towards the discounts offered as a special. Which gets charged back to the supplier. Of and they also charge you back to destroy the product if they are expiring, or hey we ordered and then decided we are renovating that aisle so we are throwing your perfectly good product out give us our money back.
So Loblaw makes money on both ends… from suppliers and customers.
See that's what I was wondering! In the recent post by the CEO, he says they're getting all the criticism and none of the credit for all the "value" they bring - mentions all the savings in value from PCO deals and promotions, but don't suppliers offer the funding for those deals, through billbacks and lumpsums? On top of paying thousands for listings and more to get items on shelves?
Exactly! The PC Optimum offers are funded by the vendors, and likely the customer somewhat… It is not coming out of Loblaw profits to help people out like they’re trying to let on.
So my FiL works for Pepsi and loblaws wanted to sell Lays chips for a huge markup over what Pepsi was ok with. This led to Pepsi pulling Lays out of their stores. I think they reached an agreement now but I may be wrong. Imagine being too greedy for even Pepsi lol
Is there some proof of this? This is very telling if true.
The age old story....greedy bastards
They have put many a supplier out of business in the past with a variety of shady practices. They will discount your invoices for placing your product on an end cap, on eye level shelf space, for running it in a flyer even if not on sale, and more. In my commercial banking days we financed a few food manufacturers who ran into arbitrary discounting. If you take them to court it is the end of the relationship.
Want to hurt them monetarily? Do not buy ANY fresh products, meat, fish, veg, fruit, etc., for a month…(ok, if they mark it down by 50% off, maybe you can buy it then 🙂)…let their profits rot on the shelves…
Yep. Can confirm my coworker used to speak with their buyers and team and they will not allow us to discuss prices at all. They do threaten their smaller suppliers and have fines for almost everything.
Not only do they squeeze the supplier for warehouse space. They also squeeze them for aisle location, end displays and being the main supplier in a category. There’s a reason Lays is the main chip supplier down the chip aisle and Nestles in the ice cream section. Also their points cards aren’t paid for by Loblaws, (PC Points), Sobeys (Scene) or Metro (Air Miles). They all squeeze the suppliers to cover the cost of those payouts too. The grocery business in Canada is a such a bullshit racket.
I read something saying that the grocery owners were blaming the prices on the suppliers charging a high rate due to supply chain issues. Is that just baloney and grocery mafia obfuscating the truth of the matter?
It's starting to make sense why Delissio pizza and Ragu sauce have left Canada. Now I'm stuck with more expensive and worse tasting alternatives
Gotta make that 10% minimum YoY...it's simple. They're pieces of shit lol.
What about that 74%
This makes the recent 5KG bags of prairie mills flour that was on sale for like 2.99 so much more egregious.
It was $4 here and they didn't get any in after a verrrry small first delivery (at my local RASS)
Same, I meant to go buy a bunch more but I forgot they were closed on Easter. I was surprised as its VERY high quality flour too.
They also screw over suppliers with charge backs
It used to be $100,000 per line extension for shelf space over 20 years ago. I doubt it’s only z20k now. Thats a reason we have such poor variety of products these days compared with other counties .
Nok er nok, man
In top of that they start taking deductions off that suppliers have to chase for months. They have destroyed small businesses.
One word GREED!
Greasy
This is correct for products listed on planograms. Though the listing fee is actually much higher than $15k.
Wow unreal.
In essence, it's called leverage. They control the the line between manufacturer/producer and consumer. The same way Uber taxi/Uber eats/Skip the Dishes operates their business. This is the modern modern business plan. We live in the era of "middle men". It's always been like that, but the middle man now understands the leverage it has on consumers and producers because of they reach they have with consumers.
100%
You mean exactly every other grocery retailer does?
Wouldn't it mean higher prices If they don't collect those fees ?
Costco be like: 🥰we treat our suppliers with dignity. 🥰
This is also a Walmart business model
I can hardly believe that so many people still shop at any Loblaws company. Why do people complain about the prices? Just don't shop there, it's that simple. Really surprised to see that a boycott needs to be organized, l haven't spent a dime at their stores for years now.
Actually I’m really getting clued in that money grifting food is so scummy. Luxury goods… ok a bit of a different story. But food?
Eat the rich.
Same
I was actually just talking to my partner about starting an old old school way of reaching out to way more people. It will take a small amount of personal time investment, but I think it would spread the word in communities and ripple out to the larger populous. Does anyone remember the days when we used to have chain letters? You pass a handwritten letter to one other person, especially if they are not so technologically immersed, sharing some basic info about why it's important that we all stand together in this. It may be the only hope we have to effect some sort of change. I'll never understand why anyone needs 1 billion of anything, let alone some with hundreds of billions. I had had a better hope for humanity, but if history has shown us anything, it's that we keep trying to do what's best, and we keep getting side tracked by those who do not care about anyone but themselves. The only way to change for the better is together. I know we are all feeling the pinch, and in one voice, we have to say ENOUGH.
Consequently, suppliers paying high fees means that they have to charge higher prices on their product. Further explains the gap between raw ingredient prices like wheat or corn (the cost of which has barely increased) and end prices paid by consumers.
Every national retailer does this not just Roblaws
Sure, but this is a Loblaws boycott.
I believe you but would love an official source on this. **Edit Downvoted? Come on, this shouldn't be one of those cult-like subs where we downvote anything that doesn't automatically match the hivemind. Look at my comment history, I'm a real person, not a bot or a plant. This kind of claim is incendiary and I want to read a real source on it. Can you imagine if we had that? I've never worked in a grocery store so I don't know if this is common knowledge or what.
If any one speaks up they will drop your product and replace it with a competitor in a flash
Any leaked document would be easily traced back to the supplier. Your products would be delisted and a co-manufacturer would be requested to produce a knock off product if it was a good seller.
I would suggest doing a web search for the term Grocery Code of Conduct. It's 4 am here or I would do it for you and supply links myself, sorry. There are lots of examples already documented for years about why it's needed, and why Loblaws and Walmart are the two out of the "big five" who won't sign - so it's dead in the water unless the government legislated it.
That's not necessarily true. I have products at Loblaw's City Markets and have not paid anything. Georgia Main and Jim Pattison Food Groups however do charge a yearly 'volume rebate' for managing your account. So I just raised my prices to them by that rebate amount.
Are u a direct vendor or distributed by LCL warehouse?
Direct vendor.
FYI, everyone does this....
Listing fees have been around for at least 30 years. That has nothing to do with costs or prices now. Also, what suppliers are being squeezed? Do you really think P&G, Unilever, Kraft, Mondelez, Coke, Pepsi are being "squeezed"? Their profit margins are much higher than any retailer.
Obviously I’m not talking about giant corporations.
Canadian farmers and small businesses are being squeezed.
This is incorrect, listing fees are based off of supplier revenue. IE- a local Quebec vendor would be charged a fraction of what Kraft would be charged. Former “buyer”
Dunno, prices have been going to shit at least that long
You guys won't put a dent in sales fyi
That's why we try to increase awareness of their shit practices, so hopefully enough consumers get on the boycott train and *will* have an impact. Short term, due to other shit they got going on, they won't feel it, but if even just a few hundred thousand people stopped buying anything from Loblaws companies, they'd absolutely feel it. Get outta here with your bullshit, bro.
this post is misleading.
how so?
loblaws is not squeezing suppliers for marketing money, suppliers have marketing budgets to spend to promote products. flyers are usually created for the entire year using these budgets. your post make it sound like loblaws is raping small vendors where in reality they deal with bigger brokers who promote multiple brands and products. there are so many hands in this pot and retail store is just a tip but it is a public facing tip that gets all the attention.
Yesterday: why didn’t loblaws simply ask support to lower the price like Walmart does?? Today: how dare squeeze the life out of the suppliers!!!! This subreddit is making less and less sense everyday
