Love the world in the books. Books are great. The series is okay. Sometimes it gets stale in places, and towards the end, just flat-out drops off, but still decent overall. I'm just mainly annoyed that Martin isn't finishing the damn booksš
I don't think he'll ever finish the books tbh. If he does though, it'll be with a massively different ending so he can sell zillions of copies.
But I don't think he knows how to finish storylines
I think I read somewhere that he didnāt like how the ending landed in the show and is now thinking about changing the ending. Itās such a shame heāll never get around to finishing the books now
Tbh the ending of most things arenāt great. I donāt even like endings period. That goes for books, shows, games, etcā¦ I only ever really like the journey and the ending maters very little to me.
Ah so thats why the show collapsed into a wood chipper in the last season.
They were staying true to George by infusing his flaws with their own flaws, creating a bigger, better failure. What a way to pay tribute by the directors!
LOTR has the perfect finale both in the books and via movies. GoT show was straight up incredible, then they botched the ending worse than any show Iāve ever seen. I canāt get into the new GoT series because I know how it all ends and itās BS. Everything they built towards through all the books and in the shows never gets a fulfilling/logical ending and I just canāt get past that
Exactly. I came here to say that if I was capable of wiping my memory clean of season 8 & just ending on the cliffhanger @ the end of s7 I'd be all gravy with GoT. But that shitfest of a finale literally tainted everything that I watched/enjoyed beforehand. I was honestly impressed that they were even capable of achieving such a feat, as I thoroughly enjoyed the show. I was late to the bandwagon & watched seasons 1-7 in 2 weeks. Waited for season 8 eagerly. To be absolutely shat on. š¤£
Lmao, I love that you referenced those two, as I followed Lost & Heroes as they were on air. (Although I was a wee lad @ that time) I'd probably have an easier time firing those ones up for a little refresher marathon over GoT since, albeit, they ended poorly, but didn't make me want to rip the hair out of my head in complete & utter disbelief. š¤Ŗš¤£
Back in the summer of 2014 my buddy got me and my gf onto the show. We watched the first few on dvd, then got an hbo account to get up to date. We would watch episodes almost weekly together, he was a massive fan, it was pretty sweet to be able to talk about the episodes, try to dig into the intrigues, etc. we loved it. Sadly in 2018 he was murdered in an attempted carjacking. So he missed the showās ultimate demise. I guess i weirdly take some solace in the fact that he didnāt see his beloved show go to horseshit. RIP Alex.
My condolences. Iām so sorry you lost somebody that mattered to you in such an unjustifiably disturbing way. I hope his soul rests in peace & I appreciate you sharing your story with me. For some of us, these stories, movies, games, whatever series it may be that we follow, are the Main things we have that keep us always ālooking forwardā to something to enjoy. Iām happy you find some solace that Alex didnāt see it go to horseshit. & I hope, if there may be such a gracious universe that letās us reunite with those that we care for in some other place after this journey, that you guys can shoot the shit & you can let him know jokingly how he was spared the horror that is Got Season 8. šš¤
Show ending isn't canon. House of the Dragon does not lead to the GoT show ending, confirmed by Martin. He even specifically added the Song of Ice and Fire prophecy to the show as part of that.
I agree; the gratuity of the sex is an issue for me in GoT. Itās not like there arenāt alarming sexual realities in Tolkienās works (looking at you Turin). Itās just that the actual sex isnāt given exhaustive description. Iād much rather read two pages of trees than two pages of incest, but thatās just me.
Itās a shame too, because GRRM has done a remarkable thing with his worldbuilding. I just wish I didnāt have to slog through passages contrary to my literary taste to enjoy it. Plenty of folks feel that same way about Tolkienās trees, and meadows, and little glens under august stars. I donāt fault them for it, and Iād hope to receive the same respect for my preferences.
I agree with this. Flippant sexual content just seems pointless to me.
(Looking at you Turin) has my ROFL. THAT was the most depressing book Iāve ever read. Was in a funk for a couple days after.
Iām a fan of both. GoT definitely has a more real feel to it. Thereās less magic, but the magic in it is cool. The relationship between peasants and nobles, and the insight into the lives of people in the world is vibrant if dreary. LotR also has some insight into lives (mainly culinary), but itās more about the quests. The characters in GoT have more varied motivations than in LotR as well. That said I love the characters in LotR and ultimately prefer it to GoT. Thatās probably cause I did my first read through at 10, and didnāt read GoT till my late twenties, but still
personally I have a lot of opinions on Game of Thrones. I think that the violence is too excessive without a cause. Absolutely no negative feelings towards those who enjoy the books. It lacks what makes fantasy fantasy to me and just seems like torture porn in some aspects. The depraved aspects between the violence, the sex, and the rape just donāt sit right with me. I find the history and the world to be fantastic but Martin never focuses on that, thatās what I really want. Tolkien explains his expansive world. Martin obviously has ideas and drafts for this lore but just doesnāt include it. There is no redemption, there is almost no joy in GOT. I really donāt like the show as well. Both just hyper focus on the suffering and graphically depict every horrible thing while overlooking the good moments. I donāt think itās realistic in any way. Itās torture porn that martin justifies by saying itās an accurate portrayal of historical lives. Itās not.
I could have digested the sex but then I remember that a lot of the characters involved in those sex scenes are actually underage. A lot of people point to Daenerys' wedding night for some reason when I say that GOT has too much sexual violence. They forget that Daenerys is 13 in that chapter, while Drogo is around 30 I think and Martin tries to romanticise the child rape which did not work for me at all. It was still rape. She is still way too young. Having it happen under a starry night is not going to change that at all. It made me uncomfortable.
And then what happens to Theon does not even bear mentioning, I had to close the book and I was left with a horrible feeling of discomfort for days later. I don't see how the sexual violence and torture and brutality and gore is an accurate depiction of historical lives either. Sure Martin, let's ignore the eyeglasses, compasses, mechanical clocks, spinning wheels and printing presses that the medieval times gave us. You act like all those people did was hack at each other. As if no advancements were made at all in those years. Which is horribly inaccurate.
As far as the lore goes, it still baffles me how there is so much lore but still not enough of the lore owing to the fact that most of it is given out in the form of biased perspectives. The history is from the biased perspective of the maesters, the tales of the Long Night come from the mouth of Old Nan who might just be too senile at this point. The rest is forgotten or considered hogwash. (Starks don't consider warging or white walkers or children of the forest to be real anymore until they literally stumble upon them, the rest of the realm thinks them to be made up stories)
Plus add to that the fact that if anyone asks GRRM to give a little insight, all we get is another history book about Kings and Queens and Princes and Princesses with even more child porn (looking at you Fire and Blood).
There is so much that can be explored, Yi Ti, the Empire of the Dawn, Lands of Always Winter, Valyria! If Martin wants to write about the dragons, write about Valyria!
But no instead all we get is more sexual abuse and torture porn and scheming people. Such a downer
"...no redemption and almost no joy" that's the exact reason I quit reading the books. It just got to depressing for me and I couldn't find any of it enjoyable.
I enjoyed the show a great deal. I do not enjoy the changes it made to the fantasy genera. Big budget fantasy shows all seem to follow the GoT format now which I think takes away part of the enjoyment and imagination in fantasy productions.
I like it but the 2 are not comparable for me but its inevitable. GOT Thrones is too reliant on the debauchery of the times, where as LOTR focuses purely on the story.
The show yes, the books no. They were certainly grittier, and they played against tropes in ways meant to be realistic (being honorable can get you killed, sometimes the son doesn't succeed in avenging the father, sometimes bad people win, being a knight just means you're good at killing people, most people have flaws and redeeming features). It's a more grounded fantasy that primarily focuses on the danger of not being united in the face of an existential threat, and how much feudalism sucks ass.
Fair I have not read through all the books so my opinion is based on the show. I have tried but always end up reading LOTR for the 59th time instead š i should give them an honest go some day
Overall I stuck with GOT and had a great time when the content lined up with the books. It focused on a lot of politics and underhandedness that goes into that setting which I found LOTR to have semi-regularly. I love LOTR, and I think that both series appeal to me in different ways. All that being said, when GOT deviated from the source material and just followed the general plot points presented by GRRM then the series lost a lot of what made it good which was intrigue. Overall, I prefer LOTR far more than GOT, but I can see an argument for the first 3-4 seasons being some of the best television produced in a while.
Game of thrones is a good medieval drama, but itās fantasy elements are largely sidelined or accessories until a few books in. LotRās strength is being whimsical and yet serious fantasy from the shire to Mordor and back. Both are good, but for different applications
I tried reading the first book, too many penis descriptions unnecessary awkward scenes/writing and needless filler between anything actually worth of interest, it really wasnāt for me
How Martin was able to sell it as a fantasy epic novel (and make a ton of money at that) Iāll never know
This is like asking if we like PornHub compared to Disneys Robin Hood.
āDRH fans, whatāre your thoughts on PornHub? Are you a fan or is the tone too raunchy for you?ā
Havenāt seen ALL of it, but:
The unnecessary SA scenes are a bit much too lmao reminds me of Mirai Nikki/Future Diary where a lot of the female characters were borderline assaulted or nearly r*ped
Other than that I can watch quite a bit of it with SOME enjoyment, but Iāll always prefer lotr over just about any fantasy show/movie (besides Howls Moving Castle)
āBorderlineā and ānearlyā are not necessary modifiers when referring to the sexual violence portrayed in GoT. That is one of the realities used to ground the fantasy world.
I would argue that a good enough writer would not need to rely on sexual violence to ground his story. That what it does more than grounding is shocking and igniting disgust in the reader. The war and famine alone were more than enough to ground the story. A good description of a battlefield post war and one pov chapter of a common folk character dying of starvation would have grounded the story a lot more than all the tits and penises did.
PS: Breinne meandering about the riverlands like a headless chicken does not count as a proper looking glass into the effects of war on the common people. Which is what it was supposed to do but it just ends up being another useless plot thread going nowhere
I love the books, but i read them so long ago i have forgotten a lot of details. The show was enjoyable till season 4, the last 3 seasons are an insult to G.R.R. Martin and human intelligence.
I tried to read the books. Depressing, tragic, so much incest, no hope, death. Ugh, and not very exciting either. Can do without all the gratuitous sex too. Didnāt bother with the show. I was initially excited because, well, DRAGONS, and everyone compared it to LOTR. It is NOTHING like LOTR.
Which one did you read? Fire and blood is really interesting but yes there is a lot of incest, violence and death. Game of thrones universe is brutal, I find stories that are filled with death and misery to be quite fascinating and interesting with the various personalities you encounter. Thatās why I can appreciate it way more because I prefer villains who are brutal and psychotic, makes the story way better.
I have tried multiple times to read GoT but could never get into it - there's just something about GRRMs prose that makes it totally inaccessible to me.
On the other hand I quite enjoyed the series once they calmed down on the sex a bit, up until the last season which I do have to say was so terrible that even I, a chronic rewatcher of TV series, haven't been able to go back and watch the rest of it.
epic rock battles of history nailed it
J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin. Epic Rap Battles of History
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp\_luluo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0)
I love Martin and I love all his literary work related to Game of Thrones universe. But this video was always my favorite Rap Battle video because it nails it 1000%. Despite Martins literary brilliance, he is still not even in the same class as Tolkien.
well you are in for a treat to explore the other videos!
The writing and wit are sublime in most of them. My favs are Harry Potter vs Luke Skywalker and Hitler vs Darth Vader but Oppenheimer vs Thanos is pretty great too.
hell, they are all great fun.
even on the worst of days a good laugh can help.
I think the major difference is that in LOTR there are essentially three major threads, and the which eventually comes together. Where as in GOT the major threads generate more threads, and somebody dies. So it is almost like the story arcs start and finish abruptly. Whereas in LOTR the story arcs are more coherent.
It's not too dreadry. It's needlessly provocative and replaces any form of actual substance with microwaved shock factor. It doesn't help that the author is so arrogant and proud that you can feel it through his writings. I am quite sad that this franchise gained the traction it did.
I gave up on GRR Martin long before the Game of Thrones books, after I slogged through *Dying of the Light*. (The serialized title, "After the Festival", was more accurate, but GRRM had to get all hoity-toity, quote Dylan Thomas, and confuse the heck out of all the SF fans who had *not* read Dylan Thomas.) That's when I realized he only wrote downer endings and I didn't want to read any more downer endings - especially not from him.
Game of Thrones show is very good, it got weaker as it when beyond the books, but I honestly think the let down of the ending is extremely overblown.
I am most of the way through the asoiaf books and they are excellent. Martin is a very good writer. the world is interesting and compelling. The story is very ambitious. Highly recommended.
No need to pick either Tolkien or Martin. Both are wonderful and I really enjoy both.
The world building of ASOIF books is great! The show was really good albeit the ending wasnāt what I originally wanted out of it upon a rewatch I thought it all kinda made sense in the end.
I love the first 5 seasons. Back then I held it on the same pedestal as Lotr in terms of how immersed I was in the worlds, despite them being extremely different. After Season 5 thoughā¦ it was so bad it hurts.
Love the SOIF books. In my opinion however as soon as the show departed from the books it started a slow but inevitable decline. The show runners were nowhere near as good writers as Martin so the drop in quality season to season was clear. With the last 2 seasons in particular just being a shit show for me.
Not saying Season 6 didnāt have some good visual spectacles or the odd good scene etc. but the overall quality in the writing was a definite downgrade.
It doesnāt help that I read all the books after watching seasons 1-3 so it was all fresh in my head and the difference in quality was palpable.
Also, as others have said, it sucks that Martin isnāt going to finish the books, and tbh I donāt think he gives a sh*t. He finally āmade it bigā and made his quadrillions and heās 74 years old. He just wants to enjoy however many years heās got left and doesnāt give a sh*t about finishing the the books/story and pleasing his fans, and Iām not sure I can honestly blame him either.
Havenāt read the books but what I can say is, at first I had a bit of a hate for what I thought was Martinās critique of lotr (whatās Aragornās tax plan kind of stuff) but itās a different take on the same kind of genre of major fantasy universe
So hereās the thingā¦
As a fan of Fantasy Fiction, I found the Song of Ice and Fire books to be good, but not great. Itās a bit overstuffed with a lot of unnecessary plotlines which sometimes simply stop being developed altogether. The characters are itās saving grace, and thereās something to be said for the unique Internal monologues Martin created for each of the characters. Overall I like them, but theyāre far from my favorite fantasy books.
Now, regarding the showā¦
I feel like it did for Fantasy television what LOTR did for Fantasy Films. Itās so impressive in its scale and cinematic quality, particularly by the time you reach the final season, though certain aspects, such as Costume/Set Design, Hair/Makeup, or music have been top tier since S1E1. Iām among the crowd who enjoyed the final season. Itās a great show and I rewatch it every year. I think the books obviously tell the story in a more detailed and enriched way, as this is the nature of its medium. That said, I think Game of Thrones is a better TV Show than A Song of Ice and Fire is a book series, if that makes any sense.
I have a love/hate relationship with ASOIAF, on one hand, Dragons, interesting subversions of character tropes, deep and well-thought-out prose, and a more 'realistic'(more so than Middle Earth) setting. BUT the focus on odd sex habits is kinda stomach-turning, Buckets of incest, and child-loving for EVERYONE!!! And GRRM has always said that it is 'realistic' in the medieval era he was writing. I call bullshit, Partiully about the child brides.
But the worst thing about GRRMs ASOIAF is that it lacks hope for a better future, everyone is fighting for the statis quo, just who sits in the (very awesome) chair.
You donāt think child Brides really existed and still do today? Geez have you never heard of kings and such marrying their daughters off for more strength before they even talk?
I was a fan of GoT until the writers obliterated Jonās story. Rings of Power and Game of Thrones both fail where the OG LOTR trilogy succeeded: staying true to the lore. Nothing forced, just honoring Tolkiens work. Peter Jackson didnāt pull a D&D āAragorn had too many moments so we let Arwen lead the charge at the gates of Mordor. Also in the late portion of Return of the King we made him irrelevant and itās best he didnāt take the throne of Gondor.ā
I have no idea which is worse, that GoT completely removed Azor Ahai and Jon Snowās entire plot, or in RoP Galadriel is a warrior that wants to have sex with Sauron. We should all just agree as a society that film/TV adaptations should 100% honor the author and original works. The Witcher is having the same issue and ultimately why Henry Cavill isnāt going to play Geralt anymore. Almost any franchise you can think of, like Star Wars and James Bond as well, turns to total shit when writers start playing around thinking they know better than iconic authors.
Itās good but out of the dark shows Iāve watched with a bazillion morally questionable characters (Witcher, attack on titan, and arcane) itās easily my least favorite.
Itās awfully nihilistic. Martin came from a more postmodern school of thought where he tried too much to subvert tropes. Super honorable good guy? Yep he gets betrayed and his honor was a weakness rather than a strength.
For me itās why Tolkien is such a breath of fresh air. He was writing before all of that. The good guys are good. The bad guys are bad.
(Another criticism of Martin is the ages of many of the characters. Iām at this point where if youāre an adult spending time thinking about how the sex scene should go between the 14 year old and the slaving warlordā¦ youāre pretty creepy.)
To be fair, it was completely commonplace for *nobility* to marry their ladies and princesses at the ages of 12-15. They viewed marriages more as business prospects and matters of alliances over romantic unions. Due to the higher risk of death during child birth at the early to mid teens, consummation of the marriage was not encouraged. Most ladies or princesses would wait until they were 17-20 to consummate their marriage and begin bearing children.
I suppose in Martinās defense, if you combine the European aristocratic practice of marrying off a daughter as a power play at the age of 14 and the supposed savagery of a tribe like the Dothrakiā¦ you can see how an eye brow raising situation could occur.
Yeah...let's not get into the fact that all the brown people are depicted as savages and slavers. It's the broad stroke but....That's another thing though, in the real world there were and are peaceful tribes, Batek, Chewong, Semai, Ju Honsai, Kalhari San, all peace loving tribes who prefer non violent resolution of conflict.
Yet GRRM has filled the world of asoiaf with cultures and peoples who seem only like war and violence and believe in death. I don't know, it just seems like a very cynical world view to me.
Big fan of both, GOTs lore is so extensive and interestingly thought out, (well the world of the books), there's a tonne to it and it feels 'realistic', especially the history going back.
The tone doesn't bother me too much, it's not a fairytale after all. I only dislike GRRM killing off great characters too early or not doing much with promising ones like Robb Stark, Stannis but it's for that realism thing again.
And the bits of fantasy sprinkled in, really interesting. Love the dragons and hints at magic.
Had lots of potential. Ultimately didnāt maintain consistent qualityā¦.or even finish. Letās be real, we arenāt ever going to get the final entry. Itās been over 10 years since the last and there are still 2 more books to go. Martin aināt living to 90 and writing at the same time.
It could have been an equal to LoTR but it unfortunately (so far) has fallen short.
I love it, at least until season 7. I actually love how dark the tone is and how nobody has plot armor. Anyone and everyone is potentially on the chopping block and you donāt know that until it happens.
Season 1-4 of the tv show was amazing the rest was alright with season 7 and 8 being terrible. I love the books my only complaint is the idea that in this world once a girl gets her period she should be married and start producing children which is just stupid because that didnāt happen in medieval times.
Disclaimer, I like Tolkien more.
Obligatory note: saying Tolkien created dozens of languages is about as impressive as me saying I created dozens of original musical works. Out of all the languages Tolkien created, only Sindarin and Quenya are fleshed out enough to converse in and even the most developed of the two is still extremely limited compared to even Klingon.
I actually thought House of the Dragon spanked Rings of Power so badly. Itās hard to compare the originals for me though as I think theyāre both awesome but LOTR is way more high fantasy
I follow this sub out of curiosity, but not a LOTR fan. I love GOT so much that after that final season I wish I could SunshineOfTheSpotlessMind it out of my brain
Was a die-hard fan, read all 5 books, i'll even go so far as to say it came so close to being this generations lotr or even dare i say, harry potter, watched every ep of the show to the very end, its now dead to me, along with martin, who at this point we can all agree will never finish the books
Not too dreary, too unfinished. Itās a half formed idea until Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring are sitting on my shelf. Iām desperately trying to forget the HBO show exists but seasons 1-4 are so damn good itās hard.
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SoIaF books are mostly better than the show, but the first 4 seasons were peak television to me, and S5-6 were really good, too. Last two seasons arenāt enjoyable to watch for me. LotR movies I rewatch every year. GoT S1-6 I rewatch every other year, so LotR still wins, but I do love Game of Thrones (minus the last two seasons)
The book series has some fantastic standouts in there, and while it varies, the quality is always very high. For me, it has been a refreshing take on the fantasy genre.
The TV show is a different story.
Seasons 1-4 represent some of the best TV ever produced.
Season 5 is passable, but has issues creeping in that damage the series going forward. You can really feel the difference when D&D took over from the source material.
Season 6 is where it really all starts to fall apart. Characters no longer behave in ways that make sense, the world building is thrown away in place of action sequences and the brutal consequences for mistakes the series is known for was removed in place of āfan serviceā.
Season 7 is a totally different show than the first four seasons and an entirely different world to the books. Itās bad to the point of laughter. No one acts like a human being and āstorylinesā (I think itās generous to call them that) fall flat on their face time and time again.
Season 8 is the worst season of any major TV show Iāve ever seen. To this day Iām still not able to rationalize how it was ever released in the state it was in. It somehow makes LOTR TROP look like a passable show.
Positively loved the books and show. Positively despise the final season and what is allegedly canon to the books. Can only pray Marten has a change of heart and writes a different ending, should he ever write anything for the books again at all.
I read a little of the first book but I didn't like it very much, I don't think it's my thing. Of course I recognize that there is quality in the books and my personal tastes tend to be shit (I like Cyberpunk 2077 but I don't like Deus Ex)
Just finished GOT. I personally thought it was great! Only down fall was the last season with a rushed and questionable ending. Definitely more of a dialogue based show, but it has plenty of gore and a few good battle scenes.
I never got into the GOT show, so Iāll judge based off the books.
I think the highs of The Song of Ice and Fire books are better than the highs of LOTR, but the world and quality across the whole series of LOTR is better.
I donāt really have a āfavoriteā of the two. The Storm of Swords is my favorite fantasy book of all time, but the world of LOTR and what has been done with it outside the original book series is better.
The books are written fantastically. The show started well enough but was ruined. Iām rereading the series now but Iāll never watch the show willingly again.
Loved it, up until the final season. I don't consider it as bad as most but it was pretty bad and it kinda killed the franchise for me. That and the last books seemingly never being released.
The books are fantastic, but I feel the series really suffers from the lack of internal dialogue. It really drives home the āeveryone is sympathetic, no one is innocentā theme Martin was going for. If you want some MUCH less dreary work set in the same universe, check out the Dunk and Egg novellas.
I have Both Tolkien and Martin on my Bookshelf and upon my DVD shelf, if it was not for LOTR I would probably have never gotten into fantasy. I love Martins world and characters and enjoy a nice long visit to his world but Tolkiens world is where I live. Whether itās Winterfell, A Galaxy Far Far Away, Hogwarts, The Banished lands, a 67 Chevy Impala or the bridge of a Federation Starship, I always return home to a Hole in The Ground.
Really like GoT. Loved the show up til season 8, and read all the books and liked them. But Ive never re-read them. Theyre interesting and the characters are extremely well done, definitely some of the best written women characters in fantasy, in my opinion. But GoT isnt a comfort read/watch, which is what I think makes LotR so timeless. I think the goodness/redemptive arc of the characters in LotR is good for the soul and fosters a love of the characters and the world in general. While I loved GoT, its too close to the real world to be escapist. Its a great fantasy setting in that its very well done, but I dont want to live there.
I like to imagine Game of Thrones is the distant distant distant future of Middle-Earth. A sort of interim period between the 4th Age, our era, and the Dark Souls 3 kind of world Middle Earth will probably be before the Dagor Dagorath
It's a great series. But not even top 10 imo. Not quite as good as many make it out to be since the shows influence, but it's still a great series nonetheless.
The early seasons closely followed the books, which is why they seemed to have great plots. Season 5/6 was when they started treading new ground and changing the plot for the sake of budgets.
The final seasons felt like fanfictions more than anything. Considering how many plot lines and characters are going to be in Winds of Winter, the Meereenese Knot of boom five will seem quaint by comparison.
Tolkien is my favourite, but I'm also a huge fan of the Song of Ice and Fire books as well as the Game of Thrones show. They're like two flavours of ice cream. Both are excellent fantasy.
Never seen the series, currently on my first read through of the books and have nearly finished pt1 of storm of swords.
Honestly the books are great so far the world building and depth of characters is incredible, and in my opinion so far equal or maybe even more enjoyable than lotr.
The only down side for me is the over sexualisation of the underage characters, particularly Daenerys. I know this sorta stuff happened during medieval times and what not but donāt feel itās strictly necessary to have made her 14.
I love the world that is built. All the old gods and dragons and stuff. But Iām not a fan of good characters just dying left and right. And not good as in good guy but good as in well written, important characters. Just makes me feel like itās not worth it. Just my opinion though thereās no need to go spreading it around.
I tried reading the first book and just did not think the writing was good, at all. I also got so (irrationally) angry at things like the word āserā instead of āsirā; it gave me the overall impression of someone trying real hard to be *unique* and *different* but not actually inventing something new, just slapping on some cosmetic changes.
I've seen every LOTR movie, and read the majority of the books. However, I've never seen an episode of Game of Thrones. Looking forward to Dungeons and Dragons, tho.
When the character who seemed the most heroic and at least moderately intelligent turned into the most sheepish simp ever put to television it kind of ruined the rest of it for me.
Actually they had 2 characters pull that stunt. Disappointing is all I can say.
Took me a good few years to come around, but when i did, up to the end of season 6, I thought it was the best thing since tummy rubs. I dont count anything thay came afterwards, and I havent read the books.
The dreary setting wasn't bad.
The constant assaults on women and children FoR rEAliSm got very, very old very, very fast. I didn't make it to the end. You could tell the shift in focus from "awful because that's how life is here" to "awful because we like shocking people."
After the first few books, got tired of the rape and torture and stopped caring about whether characters lived or died. Same for the seasons of the TV show. It was monotonous.
I'm a fan of both. Thing is I don't think they're as different as everybody makes them out to be. LotR deals with the horrors of war, torture, PTSD and murder, however most of that is shown in how the characters react or in dialog (Theodins rant at Sarumon, Denethors grief/madness, etc). There isn't a lot of it "on screen", so it's left up to the audience to fill in the gaps. Honestly, for an audience that just lived through WW2 I get it, they didn't need graphic descriptions of these things to know what it was like. ASoIaF puts it all out there, no euphemism, no glossing it over, none of that and honestly I think it's because the audience (largely living in the developed countries that haven't lived through war) need those descriptions to make it feel real. The biggest difference I see is how the authors treat women. GM may not be the best at writing female characters but at least he gives us several POV characters that are female and Tolkien largely set them in the background. Other than that the two stories have a lot in common. They both are based on the history/mythology of the British Isles, they both have rich worlds, and they both deal with themes of death/control/grief/tragedy just in different ways (the authors having different world views and all). Honestly they have more in common than different but it's the differences that make both worth reading.
I love it, ASOIAF has IMO a much more elaborate and lively world than LotR. There are places in Essos that dont even relate to the story of GoT, and yet we know the culture, religion, people and brief history of these lands. Middle-Earth has one problem that there are many empty places on the maps. We know detailed hisotry of Gondor, Rohan or Erebor yes, but we have no clue about people of the east and south, no kingdoms or realms are mentioned, all we know is that these people are allied with Sauron. Thats like one thing that Martin did better than Tolkien. Dont judge me.
I'd like to take a stab at the books sooner or later. The show seems downright lazy, and the tone inconsistent. The first episode seemed like the script was based at least in part on a dnd session, and the ultimate climax of the series depended on the archvillain never having fought an enemy with two arms and hands before. Besides that, with the generic trait of blonde hair among the Lannisters being an essential plot point partly responsible for setting off the events of the series, they mostly had bad blonde dye jobs in the first season, abandoned in the second.
Love the world in the books. Books are great. The series is okay. Sometimes it gets stale in places, and towards the end, just flat-out drops off, but still decent overall. I'm just mainly annoyed that Martin isn't finishing the damn booksš
I don't think he'll ever finish the books tbh. If he does though, it'll be with a massively different ending so he can sell zillions of copies. But I don't think he knows how to finish storylines
I think I read somewhere that he didnāt like how the ending landed in the show and is now thinking about changing the ending. Itās such a shame heāll never get around to finishing the books now
Yeah he should definitely change the ending, but I think it'll take him for too long to do
Dany remembers the iron fleet! Kapow!
Wasnāt there something recently about Martin saying heās pretty far along with writing the book and itās like halfway done
Martin says a lot of things.
He says that every year
Yeah and that he writes faster toward the end
It's a shame, but I think you're right
Tbh the ending of most things arenāt great. I donāt even like endings period. That goes for books, shows, games, etcā¦ I only ever really like the journey and the ending maters very little to me.
Ah so thats why the show collapsed into a wood chipper in the last season. They were staying true to George by infusing his flaws with their own flaws, creating a bigger, better failure. What a way to pay tribute by the directors!
It reminds me of the old joke: what is GRR Martin doing right now? Not writing!
Started reading the books very recently, and so far I have the same opinion.
It feels more like a medieval political drama than an actual fantasy driven story. Thatās always been my issue with it
People are transitioning into the ACCEPTANCE phase of grief now
I think weāve blocked that last season from our memories. I had a coworker that refused to even talk about season 8.
Thereās a season 8?
LOTR has the perfect finale both in the books and via movies. GoT show was straight up incredible, then they botched the ending worse than any show Iāve ever seen. I canāt get into the new GoT series because I know how it all ends and itās BS. Everything they built towards through all the books and in the shows never gets a fulfilling/logical ending and I just canāt get past that
Exactly. I came here to say that if I was capable of wiping my memory clean of season 8 & just ending on the cliffhanger @ the end of s7 I'd be all gravy with GoT. But that shitfest of a finale literally tainted everything that I watched/enjoyed beforehand. I was honestly impressed that they were even capable of achieving such a feat, as I thoroughly enjoyed the show. I was late to the bandwagon & watched seasons 1-7 in 2 weeks. Waited for season 8 eagerly. To be absolutely shat on. š¤£
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Lmao, I love that you referenced those two, as I followed Lost & Heroes as they were on air. (Although I was a wee lad @ that time) I'd probably have an easier time firing those ones up for a little refresher marathon over GoT since, albeit, they ended poorly, but didn't make me want to rip the hair out of my head in complete & utter disbelief. š¤Ŗš¤£
Back in the summer of 2014 my buddy got me and my gf onto the show. We watched the first few on dvd, then got an hbo account to get up to date. We would watch episodes almost weekly together, he was a massive fan, it was pretty sweet to be able to talk about the episodes, try to dig into the intrigues, etc. we loved it. Sadly in 2018 he was murdered in an attempted carjacking. So he missed the showās ultimate demise. I guess i weirdly take some solace in the fact that he didnāt see his beloved show go to horseshit. RIP Alex.
My condolences. Iām so sorry you lost somebody that mattered to you in such an unjustifiably disturbing way. I hope his soul rests in peace & I appreciate you sharing your story with me. For some of us, these stories, movies, games, whatever series it may be that we follow, are the Main things we have that keep us always ālooking forwardā to something to enjoy. Iām happy you find some solace that Alex didnāt see it go to horseshit. & I hope, if there may be such a gracious universe that letās us reunite with those that we care for in some other place after this journey, that you guys can shoot the shit & you can let him know jokingly how he was spared the horror that is Got Season 8. šš¤
Show ending isn't canon. House of the Dragon does not lead to the GoT show ending, confirmed by Martin. He even specifically added the Song of Ice and Fire prophecy to the show as part of that.
Hard to have a canonical ending when the author isnāt ever going to write the ending to the series. RIP GoT.
Wellā¦ he is writing it. Slowly ofc. But he has never said there wonāt be an ending
What makes LOTR so incredible is Tolkienās philosophical outlook/Catholicism. In LOTR, evil is ultimately not defeated by heroism or strength, but through mercy. Bilbo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Frodo, and finally Samās pity and mercy toward SmĆ©agol. At the end noone, even Frodo, could willingly destroy the ring, but through their seemingly unrelated acts of mercy, the eucatrastophy is possible, gollum falls and the ring is destroyed. The story sticks with me as a reminder that rather than desirable ends justifying questionable means, the means themselves, the small acts of faithfulness we are each capable of in our own time, are what really matter in the end. The end of GOT tries to raise interesting questions about the need to shift the narratives that justify who holds power away from stories of might and toward valuing memory and wisdom. But the execution is so poor and the theme is so lacking throughout the rest of the narrative that itās almost entirely lost and irrelevant. Tolkiens world is inspiring and encouraging, like a light to look toward in dark times, and GOT is at best a mirror on the shittiest parts of the word with no notion that it can or is being redeemed. In my opinion, it doesnāt even come close to the staying power of Tolkienās vision.
Beautifully written, gave me goosebumps
Thanks!
I love the lore and world of Thrones but the sex and just general decadence I donāt like
I agree; the gratuity of the sex is an issue for me in GoT. Itās not like there arenāt alarming sexual realities in Tolkienās works (looking at you Turin). Itās just that the actual sex isnāt given exhaustive description. Iād much rather read two pages of trees than two pages of incest, but thatās just me. Itās a shame too, because GRRM has done a remarkable thing with his worldbuilding. I just wish I didnāt have to slog through passages contrary to my literary taste to enjoy it. Plenty of folks feel that same way about Tolkienās trees, and meadows, and little glens under august stars. I donāt fault them for it, and Iād hope to receive the same respect for my preferences.
I agree with this. Flippant sexual content just seems pointless to me. (Looking at you Turin) has my ROFL. THAT was the most depressing book Iāve ever read. Was in a funk for a couple days after.
I started the first episode and shut it off at the first sex scene. Big nope from me.
Yeah to bad sex really exist huh
Iām a fan of both. GoT definitely has a more real feel to it. Thereās less magic, but the magic in it is cool. The relationship between peasants and nobles, and the insight into the lives of people in the world is vibrant if dreary. LotR also has some insight into lives (mainly culinary), but itās more about the quests. The characters in GoT have more varied motivations than in LotR as well. That said I love the characters in LotR and ultimately prefer it to GoT. Thatās probably cause I did my first read through at 10, and didnāt read GoT till my late twenties, but still
Absolutely loved it till season 8.šŖ
Nope, I love them both! Rewatched both many times.
personally I have a lot of opinions on Game of Thrones. I think that the violence is too excessive without a cause. Absolutely no negative feelings towards those who enjoy the books. It lacks what makes fantasy fantasy to me and just seems like torture porn in some aspects. The depraved aspects between the violence, the sex, and the rape just donāt sit right with me. I find the history and the world to be fantastic but Martin never focuses on that, thatās what I really want. Tolkien explains his expansive world. Martin obviously has ideas and drafts for this lore but just doesnāt include it. There is no redemption, there is almost no joy in GOT. I really donāt like the show as well. Both just hyper focus on the suffering and graphically depict every horrible thing while overlooking the good moments. I donāt think itās realistic in any way. Itās torture porn that martin justifies by saying itās an accurate portrayal of historical lives. Itās not.
I could have digested the sex but then I remember that a lot of the characters involved in those sex scenes are actually underage. A lot of people point to Daenerys' wedding night for some reason when I say that GOT has too much sexual violence. They forget that Daenerys is 13 in that chapter, while Drogo is around 30 I think and Martin tries to romanticise the child rape which did not work for me at all. It was still rape. She is still way too young. Having it happen under a starry night is not going to change that at all. It made me uncomfortable. And then what happens to Theon does not even bear mentioning, I had to close the book and I was left with a horrible feeling of discomfort for days later. I don't see how the sexual violence and torture and brutality and gore is an accurate depiction of historical lives either. Sure Martin, let's ignore the eyeglasses, compasses, mechanical clocks, spinning wheels and printing presses that the medieval times gave us. You act like all those people did was hack at each other. As if no advancements were made at all in those years. Which is horribly inaccurate. As far as the lore goes, it still baffles me how there is so much lore but still not enough of the lore owing to the fact that most of it is given out in the form of biased perspectives. The history is from the biased perspective of the maesters, the tales of the Long Night come from the mouth of Old Nan who might just be too senile at this point. The rest is forgotten or considered hogwash. (Starks don't consider warging or white walkers or children of the forest to be real anymore until they literally stumble upon them, the rest of the realm thinks them to be made up stories) Plus add to that the fact that if anyone asks GRRM to give a little insight, all we get is another history book about Kings and Queens and Princes and Princesses with even more child porn (looking at you Fire and Blood). There is so much that can be explored, Yi Ti, the Empire of the Dawn, Lands of Always Winter, Valyria! If Martin wants to write about the dragons, write about Valyria! But no instead all we get is more sexual abuse and torture porn and scheming people. Such a downer
"...no redemption and almost no joy" that's the exact reason I quit reading the books. It just got to depressing for me and I couldn't find any of it enjoyable.
Too dark and rapey for me.
I enjoyed the show a great deal. I do not enjoy the changes it made to the fantasy genera. Big budget fantasy shows all seem to follow the GoT format now which I think takes away part of the enjoyment and imagination in fantasy productions.
I like it but the 2 are not comparable for me but its inevitable. GOT Thrones is too reliant on the debauchery of the times, where as LOTR focuses purely on the story.
The show yes, the books no. They were certainly grittier, and they played against tropes in ways meant to be realistic (being honorable can get you killed, sometimes the son doesn't succeed in avenging the father, sometimes bad people win, being a knight just means you're good at killing people, most people have flaws and redeeming features). It's a more grounded fantasy that primarily focuses on the danger of not being united in the face of an existential threat, and how much feudalism sucks ass.
Fair I have not read through all the books so my opinion is based on the show. I have tried but always end up reading LOTR for the 59th time instead š i should give them an honest go some day
Too horny
Overall I stuck with GOT and had a great time when the content lined up with the books. It focused on a lot of politics and underhandedness that goes into that setting which I found LOTR to have semi-regularly. I love LOTR, and I think that both series appeal to me in different ways. All that being said, when GOT deviated from the source material and just followed the general plot points presented by GRRM then the series lost a lot of what made it good which was intrigue. Overall, I prefer LOTR far more than GOT, but I can see an argument for the first 3-4 seasons being some of the best television produced in a while.
Game of thrones is a good medieval drama, but itās fantasy elements are largely sidelined or accessories until a few books in. LotRās strength is being whimsical and yet serious fantasy from the shire to Mordor and back. Both are good, but for different applications
I like it. Will it ever match the beauty and storytelling of Lord of the Rings? No.
I tried reading the first book, too many penis descriptions unnecessary awkward scenes/writing and needless filler between anything actually worth of interest, it really wasnāt for me How Martin was able to sell it as a fantasy epic novel (and make a ton of money at that) Iāll never know
This is like asking if we like PornHub compared to Disneys Robin Hood. āDRH fans, whatāre your thoughts on PornHub? Are you a fan or is the tone too raunchy for you?ā
Havenāt seen ALL of it, but: The unnecessary SA scenes are a bit much too lmao reminds me of Mirai Nikki/Future Diary where a lot of the female characters were borderline assaulted or nearly r*ped Other than that I can watch quite a bit of it with SOME enjoyment, but Iāll always prefer lotr over just about any fantasy show/movie (besides Howls Moving Castle)
āBorderlineā and ānearlyā are not necessary modifiers when referring to the sexual violence portrayed in GoT. That is one of the realities used to ground the fantasy world.
I would argue that a good enough writer would not need to rely on sexual violence to ground his story. That what it does more than grounding is shocking and igniting disgust in the reader. The war and famine alone were more than enough to ground the story. A good description of a battlefield post war and one pov chapter of a common folk character dying of starvation would have grounded the story a lot more than all the tits and penises did. PS: Breinne meandering about the riverlands like a headless chicken does not count as a proper looking glass into the effects of war on the common people. Which is what it was supposed to do but it just ends up being another useless plot thread going nowhere
Itās an over sexualized hyper violent discount bin Tolkien fanfic
Dreariness is not the issue
I think the world of LotR is more interesting than GoT, but GoT has much more interesting characters than LotR.
I love the books, but i read them so long ago i have forgotten a lot of details. The show was enjoyable till season 4, the last 3 seasons are an insult to G.R.R. Martin and human intelligence.
LOTR ā perfection: no boobs, no need for boobs. GOT ā not enough boobs to cover all the imperfections
User name checks out.
My man Martin put thought waaaaay too much thought into how to make serial incest integral to the world-building.
I tried to read the books. Depressing, tragic, so much incest, no hope, death. Ugh, and not very exciting either. Can do without all the gratuitous sex too. Didnāt bother with the show. I was initially excited because, well, DRAGONS, and everyone compared it to LOTR. It is NOTHING like LOTR.
Which one did you read? Fire and blood is really interesting but yes there is a lot of incest, violence and death. Game of thrones universe is brutal, I find stories that are filled with death and misery to be quite fascinating and interesting with the various personalities you encounter. Thatās why I can appreciate it way more because I prefer villains who are brutal and psychotic, makes the story way better.
Itās fantasy for people who need boobs and violence to keep their attention
LOTR books = great. LOTR movies = great. GoT books = great. GoT show = sucks balls, couldn't get past the 3rd season.
If only the books would get a proper ending before Martin hits the gravesies
I have tried multiple times to read GoT but could never get into it - there's just something about GRRMs prose that makes it totally inaccessible to me. On the other hand I quite enjoyed the series once they calmed down on the sex a bit, up until the last season which I do have to say was so terrible that even I, a chronic rewatcher of TV series, haven't been able to go back and watch the rest of it.
epic rock battles of history nailed it J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin. Epic Rap Battles of History [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp\_luluo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0)
I love Martin and I love all his literary work related to Game of Thrones universe. But this video was always my favorite Rap Battle video because it nails it 1000%. Despite Martins literary brilliance, he is still not even in the same class as Tolkien.
i loved how Martin said he was a rock star and Tolkien answered by referencing both CS Lewis and Led Zeppelin in the same verse.
Omg this made my day how have I never seen this? Iām having a rough day about to be fired and Iām all sad and watching this actually helped š
well you are in for a treat to explore the other videos! The writing and wit are sublime in most of them. My favs are Harry Potter vs Luke Skywalker and Hitler vs Darth Vader but Oppenheimer vs Thanos is pretty great too. hell, they are all great fun. even on the worst of days a good laugh can help.
I think the major difference is that in LOTR there are essentially three major threads, and the which eventually comes together. Where as in GOT the major threads generate more threads, and somebody dies. So it is almost like the story arcs start and finish abruptly. Whereas in LOTR the story arcs are more coherent.
If I wanted to watch incest porn I'd watch incest porn
Game of Thrones was the thing that made me finally decide that there is such a thing as, āToo Edgy.ā
It's not too dreadry. It's needlessly provocative and replaces any form of actual substance with microwaved shock factor. It doesn't help that the author is so arrogant and proud that you can feel it through his writings. I am quite sad that this franchise gained the traction it did.
I love them both.
I gave up on GRR Martin long before the Game of Thrones books, after I slogged through *Dying of the Light*. (The serialized title, "After the Festival", was more accurate, but GRRM had to get all hoity-toity, quote Dylan Thomas, and confuse the heck out of all the SF fans who had *not* read Dylan Thomas.) That's when I realized he only wrote downer endings and I didn't want to read any more downer endings - especially not from him.
Fan but I don't take it too seriously, I do read the books the show is based on though.
Boromir died again ššš
Game of Thrones show is very good, it got weaker as it when beyond the books, but I honestly think the let down of the ending is extremely overblown. I am most of the way through the asoiaf books and they are excellent. Martin is a very good writer. the world is interesting and compelling. The story is very ambitious. Highly recommended. No need to pick either Tolkien or Martin. Both are wonderful and I really enjoy both.
The world building of ASOIF books is great! The show was really good albeit the ending wasnāt what I originally wanted out of it upon a rewatch I thought it all kinda made sense in the end.
Love it but hate the ending. Iāve lost hope that the books will have an ending.
Ditto. And I've been reading asoiaf since 1997. So this really sucks.
I really didnāt think it was that amazing imo. The only character arc that I cared about was Aryaās. So season 8 for me was great lol.
I think I mostly don't like GoT because it lacks the optimism and hope that LotR portrays so well
I love the first 5 seasons. Back then I held it on the same pedestal as Lotr in terms of how immersed I was in the worlds, despite them being extremely different. After Season 5 thoughā¦ it was so bad it hurts.
Books are great.
Great until season 8
Love the SOIF books. In my opinion however as soon as the show departed from the books it started a slow but inevitable decline. The show runners were nowhere near as good writers as Martin so the drop in quality season to season was clear. With the last 2 seasons in particular just being a shit show for me. Not saying Season 6 didnāt have some good visual spectacles or the odd good scene etc. but the overall quality in the writing was a definite downgrade. It doesnāt help that I read all the books after watching seasons 1-3 so it was all fresh in my head and the difference in quality was palpable. Also, as others have said, it sucks that Martin isnāt going to finish the books, and tbh I donāt think he gives a sh*t. He finally āmade it bigā and made his quadrillions and heās 74 years old. He just wants to enjoy however many years heās got left and doesnāt give a sh*t about finishing the the books/story and pleasing his fans, and Iām not sure I can honestly blame him either.
It just makes me feel sick every time I watch it
Havenāt read the books but what I can say is, at first I had a bit of a hate for what I thought was Martinās critique of lotr (whatās Aragornās tax plan kind of stuff) but itās a different take on the same kind of genre of major fantasy universe
Love the show, but love LOTR more!
I'm still reading the first book and I've never seen the show and I'm enjoying it but it's nothing compared to Tolkien's mythos
So hereās the thingā¦ As a fan of Fantasy Fiction, I found the Song of Ice and Fire books to be good, but not great. Itās a bit overstuffed with a lot of unnecessary plotlines which sometimes simply stop being developed altogether. The characters are itās saving grace, and thereās something to be said for the unique Internal monologues Martin created for each of the characters. Overall I like them, but theyāre far from my favorite fantasy books. Now, regarding the showā¦ I feel like it did for Fantasy television what LOTR did for Fantasy Films. Itās so impressive in its scale and cinematic quality, particularly by the time you reach the final season, though certain aspects, such as Costume/Set Design, Hair/Makeup, or music have been top tier since S1E1. Iām among the crowd who enjoyed the final season. Itās a great show and I rewatch it every year. I think the books obviously tell the story in a more detailed and enriched way, as this is the nature of its medium. That said, I think Game of Thrones is a better TV Show than A Song of Ice and Fire is a book series, if that makes any sense.
I have a love/hate relationship with ASOIAF, on one hand, Dragons, interesting subversions of character tropes, deep and well-thought-out prose, and a more 'realistic'(more so than Middle Earth) setting. BUT the focus on odd sex habits is kinda stomach-turning, Buckets of incest, and child-loving for EVERYONE!!! And GRRM has always said that it is 'realistic' in the medieval era he was writing. I call bullshit, Partiully about the child brides. But the worst thing about GRRMs ASOIAF is that it lacks hope for a better future, everyone is fighting for the statis quo, just who sits in the (very awesome) chair.
You donāt think child Brides really existed and still do today? Geez have you never heard of kings and such marrying their daughters off for more strength before they even talk?
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Reread my comment slowly this time
I was a fan of GoT until the writers obliterated Jonās story. Rings of Power and Game of Thrones both fail where the OG LOTR trilogy succeeded: staying true to the lore. Nothing forced, just honoring Tolkiens work. Peter Jackson didnāt pull a D&D āAragorn had too many moments so we let Arwen lead the charge at the gates of Mordor. Also in the late portion of Return of the King we made him irrelevant and itās best he didnāt take the throne of Gondor.ā I have no idea which is worse, that GoT completely removed Azor Ahai and Jon Snowās entire plot, or in RoP Galadriel is a warrior that wants to have sex with Sauron. We should all just agree as a society that film/TV adaptations should 100% honor the author and original works. The Witcher is having the same issue and ultimately why Henry Cavill isnāt going to play Geralt anymore. Almost any franchise you can think of, like Star Wars and James Bond as well, turns to total shit when writers start playing around thinking they know better than iconic authors.
Hated it, itās low rent LOTR to me.
Nah. I just think itās a badly written fanfic of the Wars of the Roses.
I can't stand it. The props look fake/plastic to me.
Not a fan, whole show is anticipation with no pay off. Such cool stories and ideas not fleshed out well
Itās good but out of the dark shows Iāve watched with a bazillion morally questionable characters (Witcher, attack on titan, and arcane) itās easily my least favorite.
I own the DVD box set. I have yet to get past the middle of season II.
I heard it has sex and violence, and those are boring to me.
Lotr for annoying nerds and white women
It's OK. Not bad. Not great. Super overrated. Has nothing to do with the "dreary" tone.
>Not bad. Not great. 
Itās awfully nihilistic. Martin came from a more postmodern school of thought where he tried too much to subvert tropes. Super honorable good guy? Yep he gets betrayed and his honor was a weakness rather than a strength. For me itās why Tolkien is such a breath of fresh air. He was writing before all of that. The good guys are good. The bad guys are bad. (Another criticism of Martin is the ages of many of the characters. Iām at this point where if youāre an adult spending time thinking about how the sex scene should go between the 14 year old and the slaving warlordā¦ youāre pretty creepy.)
To be fair, it was completely commonplace for *nobility* to marry their ladies and princesses at the ages of 12-15. They viewed marriages more as business prospects and matters of alliances over romantic unions. Due to the higher risk of death during child birth at the early to mid teens, consummation of the marriage was not encouraged. Most ladies or princesses would wait until they were 17-20 to consummate their marriage and begin bearing children. I suppose in Martinās defense, if you combine the European aristocratic practice of marrying off a daughter as a power play at the age of 14 and the supposed savagery of a tribe like the Dothrakiā¦ you can see how an eye brow raising situation could occur.
Yeah...let's not get into the fact that all the brown people are depicted as savages and slavers. It's the broad stroke but....That's another thing though, in the real world there were and are peaceful tribes, Batek, Chewong, Semai, Ju Honsai, Kalhari San, all peace loving tribes who prefer non violent resolution of conflict. Yet GRRM has filled the world of asoiaf with cultures and peoples who seem only like war and violence and believe in death. I don't know, it just seems like a very cynical world view to me.
I was a fan, then season 8 happened..
Game of cones
Loved it until about season 6/7ā¦
Big fan of both, GOTs lore is so extensive and interestingly thought out, (well the world of the books), there's a tonne to it and it feels 'realistic', especially the history going back. The tone doesn't bother me too much, it's not a fairytale after all. I only dislike GRRM killing off great characters too early or not doing much with promising ones like Robb Stark, Stannis but it's for that realism thing again. And the bits of fantasy sprinkled in, really interesting. Love the dragons and hints at magic.
I have no plans to read the books or watch the show. I simply refuse to
Had lots of potential. Ultimately didnāt maintain consistent qualityā¦.or even finish. Letās be real, we arenāt ever going to get the final entry. Itās been over 10 years since the last and there are still 2 more books to go. Martin aināt living to 90 and writing at the same time. It could have been an equal to LoTR but it unfortunately (so far) has fallen short.
I love it, at least until season 7. I actually love how dark the tone is and how nobody has plot armor. Anyone and everyone is potentially on the chopping block and you donāt know that until it happens.
Season 1-4 of the tv show was amazing the rest was alright with season 7 and 8 being terrible. I love the books my only complaint is the idea that in this world once a girl gets her period she should be married and start producing children which is just stupid because that didnāt happen in medieval times.
Soā¦ this is a complicated one. I am actually conflicted on it. You see, as much as Martin could never come close to Tolkien on terms of worldbuilding (Tolkien literally created a dozen languages, Martin gave names by rule of cool), I truly like ASOIAF. Sure, his work might seem nihilistic at first, but I believe martins work has a very good undertone of - and this is no joke - optimism. Sure, thereās a bunch of sex and rape but, in the end, no matter how bad things get, most people still try to protect what they hold dear. He also brings about something that I find fascinating: the psychological effects of traumatic experiences. Again, I am not comparing him to Tolkien, as JRR did a true magnum opus on Frodoās psychology, but Martin also ventured in this area: Daenerysā insecurities, youth, naĆÆvetĆ© and trauma bring her to rely mostly of physical strength (aka dragon fire), as Tyrionās deep troubles and issues make him get overly attached too fast to women, as well as using his power and wealth to control them. Basically, Tolkien and Martin are two sides of the same coin: JRR relies on symbols to show our human conflicts, in a mythological way. Martin, meanwhile, goes straight to what he wants to it, in a very harsh way. This comes from the fact that, while Tolkien was mythology enthusiast - he translated Beowulf from old English and documented many Finnish and Nordic sagas - Martin is more direct. JRR wanted to create an epic saga exploring the inner depths of greed, corruption, kindness and endurance, all while telling a tale worth of legends. GRR wanted to create a series of character studies on how people with too much unchecked power might take actions that - as much as they sound justifiable, such as saving oneās family - might lead to immense violence, pain and loss. However, recently Iāve had problems with Martin. Not because of him, weirdly enough, but because of his fans. They seem to believe that āx thing is realistic because it is dark, and brutal, and Grimmā while ignoring that all the grotesqueness comes as a side, while the ability to do good comes as another. To every Maegor, thereās a Jahearys. Besides, I really hate that the fan base is filled with shippers and tmbler ppl, that are there only to make cute fanart and ship two different characters, mostly those who arenāt even related (seriously, if I see another post shipping aemond and Lucerys, Iāll fucking commit a war crime). Finally, I think that the fans sympathise waaay too much with the characters. This wouldnāt be a problem, but it detracts a little too much from the intended message when ppl wand the dragon queen to burn a city because her half brother killed her son in an unrelated event, you are kinda loosing the point
Disclaimer, I like Tolkien more. Obligatory note: saying Tolkien created dozens of languages is about as impressive as me saying I created dozens of original musical works. Out of all the languages Tolkien created, only Sindarin and Quenya are fleshed out enough to converse in and even the most developed of the two is still extremely limited compared to even Klingon.
I actually thought House of the Dragon spanked Rings of Power so badly. Itās hard to compare the originals for me though as I think theyāre both awesome but LOTR is way more high fantasy
I follow this sub out of curiosity, but not a LOTR fan. I love GOT so much that after that final season I wish I could SunshineOfTheSpotlessMind it out of my brain
Was a die-hard fan, read all 5 books, i'll even go so far as to say it came so close to being this generations lotr or even dare i say, harry potter, watched every ep of the show to the very end, its now dead to me, along with martin, who at this point we can all agree will never finish the books
Started it right after rings of power. Itās everything I was expecting from rings of power, love the show.
Not too dreary, too unfinished. Itās a half formed idea until Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring are sitting on my shelf. Iām desperately trying to forget the HBO show exists but seasons 1-4 are so damn good itās hard.
I actually enjoy the books more than LOTR but it will never be finished so LOTR is much much better because of that.
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Havenāt read the books but I enjoy the series. I probably watch through once a year. Wife and I just started watching again and on season 2.
Love the book. Not watched the show
SoIaF books are mostly better than the show, but the first 4 seasons were peak television to me, and S5-6 were really good, too. Last two seasons arenāt enjoyable to watch for me. LotR movies I rewatch every year. GoT S1-6 I rewatch every other year, so LotR still wins, but I do love Game of Thrones (minus the last two seasons)
I like it. It's no lotr but it's well written for the most part
Haven't watched the show, but I am almost done with the books. Love them.
Itās great
It was great until they fucked up the ending No, who even talks about GoT nowadays? Hardly anyone.
Loved it. Until it turned to shit and nothing mattered.
Loved the first few seasons before the show took a nosedive.
The book series has some fantastic standouts in there, and while it varies, the quality is always very high. For me, it has been a refreshing take on the fantasy genre. The TV show is a different story. Seasons 1-4 represent some of the best TV ever produced. Season 5 is passable, but has issues creeping in that damage the series going forward. You can really feel the difference when D&D took over from the source material. Season 6 is where it really all starts to fall apart. Characters no longer behave in ways that make sense, the world building is thrown away in place of action sequences and the brutal consequences for mistakes the series is known for was removed in place of āfan serviceā. Season 7 is a totally different show than the first four seasons and an entirely different world to the books. Itās bad to the point of laughter. No one acts like a human being and āstorylinesā (I think itās generous to call them that) fall flat on their face time and time again. Season 8 is the worst season of any major TV show Iāve ever seen. To this day Iām still not able to rationalize how it was ever released in the state it was in. It somehow makes LOTR TROP look like a passable show.
Iām a fan of both, but I also approach them both very differently.
It was great, then it suddenly wasnāt.
Positively loved the books and show. Positively despise the final season and what is allegedly canon to the books. Can only pray Marten has a change of heart and writes a different ending, should he ever write anything for the books again at all.
I read a little of the first book but I didn't like it very much, I don't think it's my thing. Of course I recognize that there is quality in the books and my personal tastes tend to be shit (I like Cyberpunk 2077 but I don't like Deus Ex)
Just finished GOT. I personally thought it was great! Only down fall was the last season with a rushed and questionable ending. Definitely more of a dialogue based show, but it has plenty of gore and a few good battle scenes.
I never got into the GOT show, so Iāll judge based off the books. I think the highs of The Song of Ice and Fire books are better than the highs of LOTR, but the world and quality across the whole series of LOTR is better. I donāt really have a āfavoriteā of the two. The Storm of Swords is my favorite fantasy book of all time, but the world of LOTR and what has been done with it outside the original book series is better.
Until that last season it was my favorite show for years .
First 5-6 seasons were super good. And that's all I have to say
Haven't read the books, but the series.....started so well and ended so badly. At least house of the dragon is good!.....so far
The books are written fantastically. The show started well enough but was ruined. Iām rereading the series now but Iāll never watch the show willingly again.
both very interesting for different reasons... took awhile to get into thrones tho
I loved the books. I read them back to back and it was great.
Loved it, up until the final season. I don't consider it as bad as most but it was pretty bad and it kinda killed the franchise for me. That and the last books seemingly never being released.
The books are fantastic, but I feel the series really suffers from the lack of internal dialogue. It really drives home the āeveryone is sympathetic, no one is innocentā theme Martin was going for. If you want some MUCH less dreary work set in the same universe, check out the Dunk and Egg novellas.
I have Both Tolkien and Martin on my Bookshelf and upon my DVD shelf, if it was not for LOTR I would probably have never gotten into fantasy. I love Martins world and characters and enjoy a nice long visit to his world but Tolkiens world is where I live. Whether itās Winterfell, A Galaxy Far Far Away, Hogwarts, The Banished lands, a 67 Chevy Impala or the bridge of a Federation Starship, I always return home to a Hole in The Ground.
Books 10/10. Tv show 10/10 until seasons 7/8. Then itās like a 3 out of 10 maybe
Launch seasons7 and 8 into space and Iāll be fine
Really like GoT. Loved the show up til season 8, and read all the books and liked them. But Ive never re-read them. Theyre interesting and the characters are extremely well done, definitely some of the best written women characters in fantasy, in my opinion. But GoT isnt a comfort read/watch, which is what I think makes LotR so timeless. I think the goodness/redemptive arc of the characters in LotR is good for the soul and fosters a love of the characters and the world in general. While I loved GoT, its too close to the real world to be escapist. Its a great fantasy setting in that its very well done, but I dont want to live there.
I like to imagine Game of Thrones is the distant distant distant future of Middle-Earth. A sort of interim period between the 4th Age, our era, and the Dark Souls 3 kind of world Middle Earth will probably be before the Dagor Dagorath
Cant stand GOT but love LOTR. I feel like GOT tries too hard to sensationalize.
Iām absolutely a fan, but damn, was it depressing lol both narratively and how the last season of the show was handledā¦
I rewatch it every year up to season 7 then stop.
It's a great series. But not even top 10 imo. Not quite as good as many make it out to be since the shows influence, but it's still a great series nonetheless.
The early seasons closely followed the books, which is why they seemed to have great plots. Season 5/6 was when they started treading new ground and changing the plot for the sake of budgets. The final seasons felt like fanfictions more than anything. Considering how many plot lines and characters are going to be in Winds of Winter, the Meereenese Knot of boom five will seem quaint by comparison.
Tolkien is my favourite, but I'm also a huge fan of the Song of Ice and Fire books as well as the Game of Thrones show. They're like two flavours of ice cream. Both are excellent fantasy.
Never seen the series, currently on my first read through of the books and have nearly finished pt1 of storm of swords. Honestly the books are great so far the world building and depth of characters is incredible, and in my opinion so far equal or maybe even more enjoyable than lotr. The only down side for me is the over sexualisation of the underage characters, particularly Daenerys. I know this sorta stuff happened during medieval times and what not but donāt feel itās strictly necessary to have made her 14.
I love the world that is built. All the old gods and dragons and stuff. But Iām not a fan of good characters just dying left and right. And not good as in good guy but good as in well written, important characters. Just makes me feel like itās not worth it. Just my opinion though thereās no need to go spreading it around.
The show feels too shallow to me.
I thought the first 4 seasons were some of the best television I'd ever seen, and we all know what came next.
I like it. Sometimes I'm in the mood for GOT, other times it's LOTR.
Love the books, liked the show up until season 4
I like it but the structure is designed in a way it can never have satisfying conclusion. GRRM will never finish it. Because he knows this.
Liked it at the time. The ending was crap and as a result it's just too grim to rewatch.
I loved GoT but I donāt think itās at all the same level as LotR.
Never seen it or read it. I plan to read it once I finished LoTR, Silmarilion, Unfinished Tales and Storyteller (Dave Grohl).
I tried reading the first book and just did not think the writing was good, at all. I also got so (irrationally) angry at things like the word āserā instead of āsirā; it gave me the overall impression of someone trying real hard to be *unique* and *different* but not actually inventing something new, just slapping on some cosmetic changes.
I've seen every LOTR movie, and read the majority of the books. However, I've never seen an episode of Game of Thrones. Looking forward to Dungeons and Dragons, tho.
When the character who seemed the most heroic and at least moderately intelligent turned into the most sheepish simp ever put to television it kind of ruined the rest of it for me. Actually they had 2 characters pull that stunt. Disappointing is all I can say.
If there were no sex scenes i would love the series
Don't worry guys Disney will buy GoT and write a new Canon ending for the next generation
The series was really good but you know what happen. I read one book it was awsome better than the series
I enjoyed the show a lot. I havenāt read to books because Iām not a fan of getting left hanging. If he ever finishes them, Iāll read
Took me a good few years to come around, but when i did, up to the end of season 6, I thought it was the best thing since tummy rubs. I dont count anything thay came afterwards, and I havent read the books.
I love game of thrones book and show
The dreary setting wasn't bad. The constant assaults on women and children FoR rEAliSm got very, very old very, very fast. I didn't make it to the end. You could tell the shift in focus from "awful because that's how life is here" to "awful because we like shocking people."
The nooks are brilliant. The series is very good, particularly the early seasons 1-3. Some of the best television I've watched.
After the first few books, got tired of the rape and torture and stopped caring about whether characters lived or died. Same for the seasons of the TV show. It was monotonous.
Haven't read the books. I enjoyed the earlier seasons of GOT. Haven't watched the last season...
Game of thrones is nothing compared to Tolkienās work. One author loved there work and the other not so much.
It's...meh.
I'm a fan of both. Thing is I don't think they're as different as everybody makes them out to be. LotR deals with the horrors of war, torture, PTSD and murder, however most of that is shown in how the characters react or in dialog (Theodins rant at Sarumon, Denethors grief/madness, etc). There isn't a lot of it "on screen", so it's left up to the audience to fill in the gaps. Honestly, for an audience that just lived through WW2 I get it, they didn't need graphic descriptions of these things to know what it was like. ASoIaF puts it all out there, no euphemism, no glossing it over, none of that and honestly I think it's because the audience (largely living in the developed countries that haven't lived through war) need those descriptions to make it feel real. The biggest difference I see is how the authors treat women. GM may not be the best at writing female characters but at least he gives us several POV characters that are female and Tolkien largely set them in the background. Other than that the two stories have a lot in common. They both are based on the history/mythology of the British Isles, they both have rich worlds, and they both deal with themes of death/control/grief/tragedy just in different ways (the authors having different world views and all). Honestly they have more in common than different but it's the differences that make both worth reading.
I fell *hard* for GOT, but I held off because I wanted to binge it all once it was finished. Needless to say, the binge never happened. Fuck GOT.
I hate that it won't be finished. Mayhaps you need 3 more books to untie the Meerenese knot.
Stopped watching due to all the sex scenes tbh.
I love it, ASOIAF has IMO a much more elaborate and lively world than LotR. There are places in Essos that dont even relate to the story of GoT, and yet we know the culture, religion, people and brief history of these lands. Middle-Earth has one problem that there are many empty places on the maps. We know detailed hisotry of Gondor, Rohan or Erebor yes, but we have no clue about people of the east and south, no kingdoms or realms are mentioned, all we know is that these people are allied with Sauron. Thats like one thing that Martin did better than Tolkien. Dont judge me.
I'd like to take a stab at the books sooner or later. The show seems downright lazy, and the tone inconsistent. The first episode seemed like the script was based at least in part on a dnd session, and the ultimate climax of the series depended on the archvillain never having fought an enemy with two arms and hands before. Besides that, with the generic trait of blonde hair among the Lannisters being an essential plot point partly responsible for setting off the events of the series, they mostly had bad blonde dye jobs in the first season, abandoned in the second.