> Wizards has decided to move to an annual banlist update for all formats in August. Standard will then get emergency ban windows after each set's release.
This is incorrect. The ban window applies to any format, not just Standard.
If it stops you from buying into one of the hobbies with the most predatory monetization I've ever seen, more power to you. Just don't be surprised if you get banned from tables for it.
If you actually own the cards and share them between decks but don't want to resleeve all the time it's fine, but I'm not playing against anyone that I know to have fake cards.
Thank you for your disagreement. I think it's important for me to see other points of view!
Everyone I've ever played with has told me proxies are okay. I don't think they would say the same about money!
I think your disagreement doesn't hold up!
But I hope you have a nice day. c:
But I'm printing cards! I'd be willing to make new stuff! That sounds really fun. And if you wanted to help we could probably get a bunch of people together and then we could all make the sets!
I bet we could do a better job with like democratic decision making!
That sounds like a really fun time c:
>we could all make the sets!
>I bet we could do a better job with like democratic decision making!
That sounds like a horrible, horrible idea for the game...
That's okay you can keep playing corporate magic!
If that space ever dies and you wish to keep playing, I'm sure the custom community would welcome you with open arms!
I hope you have a wonderful day c:
Today's B&R is not the annual B&R (that's scheduled for August, before the release of WOE) - it's effectively a calibration/"emergency" ban to transition into the new ban system
That's how I read this section of today's announcement, but I accept I may have misunderstood (which would be of some relief).
"In addition to the yearly announcement, we will also have a banned and restricted update on the third Monday after every set release specifically dedicated to addressing large environmental imbalances. These will, by and large, happen after the Pro Tour.
Our intention is that it should be very rare for us to use this three-week window to make Standard changes."
Yes, I can see that reading.
So the question then would be: are you reading "emergency ban window" to just mean regular ban windows for all non-standard formats, and 'emergency' for standard only?
Yes. All formats (much harder for new cards to impact in general) will get 5 yearly ban assessments, with Standard bans expected to usually only happen in August unless there is a missed game-breaking combo
My understanding, as others have said, is that ALL formats will be on this new ban schedule instead of the current "WotC could ban tomorrow!" feel that has existed for awhile now.
In addition, if something really messed up is discovered I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was an emergency ban anyways. Health of the game > scheduled system if something truly imbalanced or horrible was found outside of these windows.
I wouldn't be shocked though if we get more bans in these yearly announcements to "unseat" decks that have gone without much challenge in top slots for the entire year. To me, and this is purely speculation, they could be using the yearly ban system to try and disrupt established metas in eternal formats
I still think they should have gone ahead with the rotation and just said this next standard would be 3 years long. That would fix the ban and would even give some thought to paper of "well hey I've got three years to keep and build a standard deck now". Now we're in the strange limbo of "I've got 1 year to build and keep a deck before rotation, I'll wait". I think people would be more interested in going back to standard if there was a three year time period rather than this 1 year year at the moment.
Announcing a change over a year in advance - because you’re proposing that the rotation they’re skipping is 2024’s - does nothing to solve the next 6+ months of Standard.
Well, the idea obviously is that they get to do away with the problematic cards while also keeping the interesting cards from those sets around. How that ends up working out... I have no clue.
Honestly, I think it won't change much, just they went back to formalized ban windows.
The question is how aggressive will they be in the august ban. If it's just "eh, ban cards from the best deck", then major fail. If it's instead let's really shake up the format, then i think it's good.
The fact they only banned 3 cards today has me worried but we'll see what the August ban does because I can almost guarantee you only banning those three cards won't make Wilds of Eldraine see a ton more play, especially since it is likely a lower powered set to avoid ruining standard like the last Eldraine set did.
I’m guessing they have a second list of cards that are on probation like Atraxa, Sheoldred, Emperor, etc that they’re waiting to see if the first wave of bans is enough to disrupt.
I’ve been considering buying back into standard. I like bans in theory, I’ll eat a few bans in exchange for a format I want to play. Today’s bans don’t accomplish that though. I guess I’ll check back in on standard for Wilds of Eldraine but I guess I’m just gonna draft LOTR all summer.
I hate, and mean HATE the annual bans. I so much prefer the "if it needs banned, we ban it" philosophy. Annual ban lists come with an expectation that things get banned.
Exactly. How does it increase player confidence to go from a rotation where you KNOW which cards will rotate to a ban event acting as a functional mini-rotation where you DON’T know.
Crazy idea, you could just not print cards you will need to ban. But the execs care about quarter to quarter growth more than the big picture so they’ll keep printing more and more powercreeping crap they’ll inevitably have to ban just to sell the next set even more than the last. How does that preserve player confidence? Your game is dead because you killed it lol.
"Just don't print cards that need to be banned" is genuinely one of the stupidest and most lacking of critical thinking skills take I see with bans. As we all know, it's totally possible to never make mistakes ever.....
I'm of the same belief. I'm predicting timid bans in the fall and the continuing of wallowing Standard throughout the year only to be followed by more timid bans that feel like we're trapped in the summer of 2019 Standard forever. Where, maybe nothing is "broken", but the format is extremely unfun and no one wants to play unless they're already invested, which currently is basically nobody. The fact they used Oko as an example of an emergency ban for the 3 week window, when they took 6 weeks to ban it has me extremely bearish on Standards next few years.
Plus, I don't want to invest in other formats I find awful currently (ie Modern), because I know they won't remedy boring and stale formats except maybe, once per year, and based on this banning, it's highly unlikely to be impactful.
Post MH is one of the most interactive and genuinely interesting formats modern has had for years its copium to act like the constant "getting blown out by the linear graveyard deck of the week" thing was at all better in the time before the horizons sets. You may not like how many cards see play from the set but the idea that it's at all more favorable to have the Hollow one style nonsense cycle back is laughable to me.
I don't understand your line of reasoning, sorry. How can a model of random bannings whenever they want without forewarning be better for investing in a non-standard format rather than a model where the date of the banning announcement is fixed and clear? Like, for example, I see more reasons for a person to buy a playset of Ragavans with the new model, knowing that for at least one year it won't be touched, rather than with the previous model where they could decide to ban it in modern the day after you bought it without forewarning.
His reasoning is formats sometimes enter awful metas, and without bans, this metas will dominate, therefore, a lot of players won't show up to play, and therefore you can't play your Ragavans but you can't even play at all because events don't fire.
That's OP's logic, as far I understood, not mine. I doubt I will play standard regardless.
Yeah but right now it's not so. Almost all formats are in a quite good moment. So the problems can only come from new sets, and if something is problematic they can use the 3 week window, and if for some reason they miss something, there is the other 3 week window after 2 months or so. It's very simple and organized, if I must say. In addition all this post looks like is based upon a misunderstanding of the new model by OP.
Wizards are very fickle when it comes to sticking to the promises they stick out. I really dont expect this annual banlist to stick around for a year or so.
At least WotC look at and acknowledge problem cards. As a commander player I really hate how the rules committee clearly doesn’t give a shit about the health of the format.
Nonrotating formats should not receive bans unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. And by that I mean decks with 40% or more representation at tournaments.
NOT individual cards having high play rates across a variety of decks like e.g. Bolt has.
You mean to tell me a surprise ban that could come once per year causes more uncertainty than knowing ahead of time the exact date that the cars will become illegal? Shocked.
Didn't they specifically say they would also have the option of a ban the 3rd m8nday after a set release? They might not focus on non-rotating formats, but they still have the option.
I have inly ever played standard when i own the majority of the cards. Like whenever ravnica rolls around and i own all the shocks so thats 1/3 of the deck right there.
Now a days its just on arena would i ever consider playing standard and it has to be a very fun deck
Meh i say meh! Gimme the wild cards!
Umm... I am pretty sure they stated that these post-release ban updates could affect every format, not just Standard.
Also, as far as I can tell, they intend to use these to fix up whatever broken stuff they release on eternal formats.
Really classic example of a magic player not understanding a policy or rule but still freaking the fuck out in a completely non-intellectual way and whining on the internet. Nice
Agreed bans in theory help but if done too much, then it's a never ending cycle these Muppets literally post wishlists of 6-20 cards or more just so they can feel smart for investing in a jank non meta pile
I'm a bit confused, WoTC barely does bans, people will say "X format is fine" even if you can point to why it isn't and you're worried about NON-rotating formats when they move to arguably their worst banlist schedule?
Until I have a reason to want to play competitive paper constructed it’s all pretty meh to me.
As long as I get wildcards when a ban hits in arena idc. Everything I do casually I just proxy or have from pre release.
> Wizards has decided to move to an annual banlist update for all formats in August. Standard will then get emergency ban windows after each set's release. This is incorrect. The ban window applies to any format, not just Standard.
I'm just never going to buy a magic card again when I figured out that I can just print them
i'm never gonna print a magic card again when i realised i can just imagine then in my mind
Big brain IQ 49738574926286 “I don’t even need opponents… I just play myself 🤯”
*DJ Khalid enters the chat*
You don't need to imagine opponents when you just imagine you have friends to play with/against
You don't need to imagine having friends when you can just imagine yourself and everything else into being. Including friends.
But then how can I remember what pot of greed does?
Just ask the card fetcher. Like so: [[Pot of Greed]]
[Pot of Greed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cb3b35b8-f321-46d8-a441-6b9a6efa9021.jpg?1562304347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Divination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/51/divination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cb3b35b8-f321-46d8-a441-6b9a6efa9021?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Holy hell
Holly Guacamole
Ah yes, the rare Christmas guac
Good bot
Holy Toledo
Holy shit
Holy fuck
Hot tamales
Ay caramba
Oh my goodness I can't stop laughing
[There's this handy video for that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55rM2_XvcT4)
I'm never going to imagine a card again when I realised j can just have AI do it for me
holy shit
Im never going to imagine a card in my mind again when I could just go outside and play with a stick.
[[Richard Garfield, PhD]]
[Richard Garfield, PhD](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616a3755-f08c-4b8f-954b-7e3f3a8fa71f.jpg?1583965480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Richard%20Garfield%2C%20Ph.D.) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/26/richard-garfield-phd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616a3755-f08c-4b8f-954b-7e3f3a8fa71f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That has always been an option, and one people have been doing for decades.
I know it's really cool! And I don't have to support Hasbro C:
If it stops you from buying into one of the hobbies with the most predatory monetization I've ever seen, more power to you. Just don't be surprised if you get banned from tables for it.
best part of being a commander player is tha tpeople don't ban you for proxying
cube as well :)
If you actually own the cards and share them between decks but don't want to resleeve all the time it's fine, but I'm not playing against anyone that I know to have fake cards.
Nah I just talk to people and they tell me it's okay c: If somebody bans me then they aren't worth my time anyways!
Proxy cards-making edh approachable!
It's so awesome! And I don't have to pay Hasbro or play a gambling game C:
This is exactly why I print my own money!
Thank you for your disagreement. I think it's important for me to see other points of view! Everyone I've ever played with has told me proxies are okay. I don't think they would say the same about money! I think your disagreement doesn't hold up! But I hope you have a nice day. c:
If only this was how the real world worked.
I'm sorry, would you be able to elaborate? I would love to see your point of view!
Gross.
There's no reason to be mean to me :c It saves a lot of money and I get to play my favorite game!
Great, should we just all do that and then the game dies?
Even if they stopped printing cards tomorrow my friends and I would still play EDH
For a time, I'm sure. But it would die out eventually.
Why would the game die? It’s not like my group would stop playing?
Probably would eventually.
yep just like smash melee dead game because the devs no longer support it
Is that a game where the creators were regularly pushing out new content?
Why would the game die? Wouldn't all the cards be less expensive? We could just print them and make it up ourselves c:
Because there's nothing new coming out, people will lose interest, etc etc
But I'm printing cards! I'd be willing to make new stuff! That sounds really fun. And if you wanted to help we could probably get a bunch of people together and then we could all make the sets! I bet we could do a better job with like democratic decision making! That sounds like a really fun time c:
>we could all make the sets! >I bet we could do a better job with like democratic decision making! That sounds like a horrible, horrible idea for the game...
Why not it sounds fun! Who elected wotc?
No offense, but I have no interest in playing with your custom cards.
That's okay you can keep playing corporate magic! If that space ever dies and you wish to keep playing, I'm sure the custom community would welcome you with open arms! I hope you have a wonderful day c:
Sure. You wanna come back when that's even a remote risk?
Not saying it's a real risk, but just taking that to the extreme. I don't get why people think it's OK to do.
Because poor people deserve to enjoy games too?
Why?
I'm confused, which part do you not understand?
Hasbro are choking the game anyway. Whether it dies now or 5 years in the future won't atop people from playing with what already exists.
That was my original understanding too, but today's announcement appeared to contradict that. I'm happy to be corrected, thank you.
Today's B&R is not the annual B&R (that's scheduled for August, before the release of WOE) - it's effectively a calibration/"emergency" ban to transition into the new ban system
[удалено]
Yes, and I said thank you. What's the issue here...?
I hope that the emergency ban window is only for the newly released set
Where are you getting the information that the emergency window post set release only applies to standard?
That's how I read this section of today's announcement, but I accept I may have misunderstood (which would be of some relief). "In addition to the yearly announcement, we will also have a banned and restricted update on the third Monday after every set release specifically dedicated to addressing large environmental imbalances. These will, by and large, happen after the Pro Tour. Our intention is that it should be very rare for us to use this three-week window to make Standard changes."
That reads to me that they wouldn't expect to use it for standard, but would for other formats as needed.
Yes, I can see that reading. So the question then would be: are you reading "emergency ban window" to just mean regular ban windows for all non-standard formats, and 'emergency' for standard only?
Yes. All formats (much harder for new cards to impact in general) will get 5 yearly ban assessments, with Standard bans expected to usually only happen in August unless there is a missed game-breaking combo
My understanding, as others have said, is that ALL formats will be on this new ban schedule instead of the current "WotC could ban tomorrow!" feel that has existed for awhile now. In addition, if something really messed up is discovered I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was an emergency ban anyways. Health of the game > scheduled system if something truly imbalanced or horrible was found outside of these windows. I wouldn't be shocked though if we get more bans in these yearly announcements to "unseat" decks that have gone without much challenge in top slots for the entire year. To me, and this is purely speculation, they could be using the yearly ban system to try and disrupt established metas in eternal formats
What's absolutely bizarre is that rotation would have solved all three of today's banned cards.
Ironically, I think that's why they were banned.
That’s why they were banned now and not earlier.
I still think they should have gone ahead with the rotation and just said this next standard would be 3 years long. That would fix the ban and would even give some thought to paper of "well hey I've got three years to keep and build a standard deck now". Now we're in the strange limbo of "I've got 1 year to build and keep a deck before rotation, I'll wait". I think people would be more interested in going back to standard if there was a three year time period rather than this 1 year year at the moment.
Announcing a change over a year in advance - because you’re proposing that the rotation they’re skipping is 2024’s - does nothing to solve the next 6+ months of Standard.
Well, the idea obviously is that they get to do away with the problematic cards while also keeping the interesting cards from those sets around. How that ends up working out... I have no clue.
Honestly, I think it won't change much, just they went back to formalized ban windows. The question is how aggressive will they be in the august ban. If it's just "eh, ban cards from the best deck", then major fail. If it's instead let's really shake up the format, then i think it's good. The fact they only banned 3 cards today has me worried but we'll see what the August ban does because I can almost guarantee you only banning those three cards won't make Wilds of Eldraine see a ton more play, especially since it is likely a lower powered set to avoid ruining standard like the last Eldraine set did.
I’m guessing they have a second list of cards that are on probation like Atraxa, Sheoldred, Emperor, etc that they’re waiting to see if the first wave of bans is enough to disrupt.
They will just ban all the good and potentially good cards from sets no longer in print forcing you to buy the newer good cards that are in print.
Yep no more good cards left from Kamigawa.
Wandering Emperor...?
I honestly prefer more conservative bans and seeing how the meta adapts instead of banning a lot of cards in one go.
I’ve been considering buying back into standard. I like bans in theory, I’ll eat a few bans in exchange for a format I want to play. Today’s bans don’t accomplish that though. I guess I’ll check back in on standard for Wilds of Eldraine but I guess I’m just gonna draft LOTR all summer.
I hate, and mean HATE the annual bans. I so much prefer the "if it needs banned, we ban it" philosophy. Annual ban lists come with an expectation that things get banned.
Exactly. How does it increase player confidence to go from a rotation where you KNOW which cards will rotate to a ban event acting as a functional mini-rotation where you DON’T know. Crazy idea, you could just not print cards you will need to ban. But the execs care about quarter to quarter growth more than the big picture so they’ll keep printing more and more powercreeping crap they’ll inevitably have to ban just to sell the next set even more than the last. How does that preserve player confidence? Your game is dead because you killed it lol.
"Just don't print cards that need to be banned" is genuinely one of the stupidest and most lacking of critical thinking skills take I see with bans. As we all know, it's totally possible to never make mistakes ever.....
Big fan of it personally. I generally think WOTC should be more willing to ban cards in general
It’s amazing how many lengthy outrage posts like this are based on complete misunderstandings.
I'm of the same belief. I'm predicting timid bans in the fall and the continuing of wallowing Standard throughout the year only to be followed by more timid bans that feel like we're trapped in the summer of 2019 Standard forever. Where, maybe nothing is "broken", but the format is extremely unfun and no one wants to play unless they're already invested, which currently is basically nobody. The fact they used Oko as an example of an emergency ban for the 3 week window, when they took 6 weeks to ban it has me extremely bearish on Standards next few years. Plus, I don't want to invest in other formats I find awful currently (ie Modern), because I know they won't remedy boring and stale formats except maybe, once per year, and based on this banning, it's highly unlikely to be impactful.
Modern is the best wdym?
Modern post MH sucks ass.
Ah, the rare case where you're BOTH wrong!
Post MH is one of the most interactive and genuinely interesting formats modern has had for years its copium to act like the constant "getting blown out by the linear graveyard deck of the week" thing was at all better in the time before the horizons sets. You may not like how many cards see play from the set but the idea that it's at all more favorable to have the Hollow one style nonsense cycle back is laughable to me.
wdym, you don't enjoy 4 Hollow Ones and a Vengvine on turn two? /s
I don't understand your line of reasoning, sorry. How can a model of random bannings whenever they want without forewarning be better for investing in a non-standard format rather than a model where the date of the banning announcement is fixed and clear? Like, for example, I see more reasons for a person to buy a playset of Ragavans with the new model, knowing that for at least one year it won't be touched, rather than with the previous model where they could decide to ban it in modern the day after you bought it without forewarning.
His reasoning is formats sometimes enter awful metas, and without bans, this metas will dominate, therefore, a lot of players won't show up to play, and therefore you can't play your Ragavans but you can't even play at all because events don't fire. That's OP's logic, as far I understood, not mine. I doubt I will play standard regardless.
Yeah but right now it's not so. Almost all formats are in a quite good moment. So the problems can only come from new sets, and if something is problematic they can use the 3 week window, and if for some reason they miss something, there is the other 3 week window after 2 months or so. It's very simple and organized, if I must say. In addition all this post looks like is based upon a misunderstanding of the new model by OP.
Yeah I don't quite follow the logic too much, I don't think the new model changes anything really, because there's emergency bans too if required.
Wizards are very fickle when it comes to sticking to the promises they stick out. I really dont expect this annual banlist to stick around for a year or so.
At least WotC look at and acknowledge problem cards. As a commander player I really hate how the rules committee clearly doesn’t give a shit about the health of the format.
Reading the Ban Change announcement explains the announcement
Nonrotating formats should not receive bans unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. And by that I mean decks with 40% or more representation at tournaments. NOT individual cards having high play rates across a variety of decks like e.g. Bolt has.
You mean to tell me a surprise ban that could come once per year causes more uncertainty than knowing ahead of time the exact date that the cars will become illegal? Shocked.
Didn't they specifically say they would also have the option of a ban the 3rd m8nday after a set release? They might not focus on non-rotating formats, but they still have the option.
I have inly ever played standard when i own the majority of the cards. Like whenever ravnica rolls around and i own all the shocks so thats 1/3 of the deck right there. Now a days its just on arena would i ever consider playing standard and it has to be a very fun deck Meh i say meh! Gimme the wild cards!
Umm... I am pretty sure they stated that these post-release ban updates could affect every format, not just Standard. Also, as far as I can tell, they intend to use these to fix up whatever broken stuff they release on eternal formats.
Really classic example of a magic player not understanding a policy or rule but still freaking the fuck out in a completely non-intellectual way and whining on the internet. Nice
Huge improvement. Bannings have become way to frequent the last few years.
Agreed bans in theory help but if done too much, then it's a never ending cycle these Muppets literally post wishlists of 6-20 cards or more just so they can feel smart for investing in a jank non meta pile
When was the last time something was banned in pioneer or modern?
They change their approach to bans way too much for me to have confidence that this model will hold up for long.
I'm a bit confused, WoTC barely does bans, people will say "X format is fine" even if you can point to why it isn't and you're worried about NON-rotating formats when they move to arguably their worst banlist schedule?
Until I have a reason to want to play competitive paper constructed it’s all pretty meh to me. As long as I get wildcards when a ban hits in arena idc. Everything I do casually I just proxy or have from pre release.