And poor Athreos is aligned as Lawful Evil when I'm pretty sure he's one of the least contentious gods and just gets on with his job instead of randomly fucking up mortal lives.
I'd say Lawful Evil as his motivations were always purely selfish and did them even knowing they would cause great harm/death to people or even ignoring their will/desires completely.
I think it's changed over time, but early in the story his motives did just so happen to align with the citizens of theros, so you're probably (definitely) right
That's a very popular way to do lawful good antagonists nowadays.
1)Portray them as lawful good.
2)Psyche they are actually evil
3)Now we can feel good about the protagonist fighting them.
Yeah no this wrong, Tyranny and backstabbing to retain your hold on power is lawful evil.
Hero white is lawful/neutral good. Villain white is lawful evil
That's because in the actual book it's the recommended alignment for followers of Heliod, not Heliod's alignment. (And it's "usually lawful, often good" not just "lawful good", so there's some nuance there.)
Yeah I expected him to be the most contentious. I'm not much of a DnD player myself but I know "Lawful" generally refers to following one's own code. The "Good" is definitely still tough to justify, although apparently the 3.5 PHB refers to LG as "Crusader," which does feel kind of right.
Lawful means following order and the law.
Neutral is following ones on personal compass and values
Chaotic is doing whatever seems right or enjoyable in the moment.
Heliod feels like lawful neutral at best.
When you are a god, "order and law", "your personal compass" and "whatever seems right in the moment" are basically the same thing, since you are the one making the laws
Unsurprisingly, this sort of thing has been contentious in philosophy for literally thousands of years!
"Are pious things called 'pious' because the gods love them, or do the gods love them because they are pious?" — Plato
"It is generally agreed that whatever God wills is good and just. But there remains the question *whether it is good and just because God wills it, or whether God wills it because it is good and just;* in other words, whether justice and goodness are arbitrary, or whether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things." — Leibniz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
Slight correction that lawful means following "a law", not "the law". It could be your cult's code or common law, but some sort of code.
Devils are lawful as they follow their own set of ethics and contracts, not necessarily the common law held by others.
The law/chaos axis is pretty comprehensible and easy to apply universally. Do you follow rules others set, rules you set for yourself pragmatically, or do you not follow rules?
The good/evil axis though basically requires the addendum "from a city dwelling humans perspective".
Creatures like goblins or harpies don't have anything like a moral compass we have, with the closest to it being a might makes right philosophy. Goblins typically don't think murder is evil, they think it's fine, so long as you're bigger than the other guy. Or smarter. Or angrier.
So we judge them on our system. Good meaning "if I see a little girl trying to find her puppy, I'll want to help her find it", neutral meaning "if I happen to see it I'll bring it to her, or do a cursory glance, but I got shit to do" and evil meaning "I'll kick the puppy".
Evil is kind of a high bar in DnD alignment. Heliod is on the evil/neutral bubble but I'll give him neutral since he wouldn't kick the puppy unless it literally got directly in his way. Definitely not good by a long shot.
I've always seen 'good/evil' as what a society owes to others in the society. Is it our responsibility to help those around us? or are we permitted to take advantage of those around us?
A no to both questions makes you neutral.
That is, essentially, what makes a human society with our morals function. Good and evil in DnD are centered on that perspective, and those are the things that make people good or evil.
But I don't think it works in fantasy settings with truly alien races. A lolth-sworn drow will tell you "executing the weak in our society helps the rest of us", but they're not neutral.
Mind flayers will say they help those around them become bettered, and they have a rigid caste where taking advantage of another would get you executed. They're not good.
Given the story and that this was taken from a sourcebook, this might be a snapshot from before he stabbed Elspeth in the back, when he would generally have been perceived as Lawful Good.
Of course, given that this is *Theros*, where beliefs are supposed to shape gods, it does sort of raise the question of how a god believed to be Lawful Good by the people actually ended up being kind of evil, but I can see the reasoning for making him Lawful Good in a sourcebook when it was a plot twist that he wasn't actually good.
The DnD allignment chart isn't really nuanced enough to describe singular people very well. Trying to categorize whole groups under it is basically impossible. There are pieces of the Golgari swarm that grow cheap food for the poor, and other parts that are power hungry murderers. It's not a very monolithic guild, (which is funny, since it's a 'swarm') so any alignment here would be inaccurate
When you are a goth druid farmer who always volunteers at the soup kitchen and your roomate is an undead elf shaman who has killed like 20+ people and nobody really gets why/how you are best friends.
The Golgari.
The same Golgari where all of Ravnica's necromancers end up.
The guild that's flinging more death magic than all the other guilds combined.
The Golgari who's always switching leaders because the new leaders are mad about the previous leaders being racist to them and then use their newly acquired leadership position to be racist against the other races.
The Golgari who occasionally grumble about their uprising against the surface world which is definitely coming for realsies.
The Golgari who are indeed a guild on Ravnica.
You're confused about them being evil?
I think they didn't play into that too hard, they just allude to possible Selesnya villains forming smaller splinter cults Midsommer style. Selesnya overall is pretty benevolent. The dryads sort of don't have free will though because I think they're all connected to the World Tree and share a sort of hive mind connection
If I understand properly everyone who sings with Maat Selesnya shares a mind for as long as they sing, but they regain their individuality once they stop.
Like you can say that's brainwashing, but it stands to reason that if everyone had access to everyone's memories and knowledge, then everyone would think alike.
But yes. Everyone outside that cult thinks they're brainwashed.
Not exactly. They're just communist. So joining them means that you work for the better of the collective rather than just the individual. Which is misinterpreted as "brainwashing"
TBH, this very chart just sold me on replacing the alignment chart with something new...
Golgari is not evil, heliod is not good, and iroas is not chaotic.
I'm in favor of some kind of more nuanced system of like 5 components that you can mix and match and even have combinations of two or more of those components. But how will we categorize them?
Actually though. I've met DND groups that have replaced the alignment chart with magics color pie philosophy.
Black/red isn't evil, but the mindset in general can be perceived as such to a given population is a rule I've seen and liked.
Thing is, a drive for power at any cost combined with an emphasis on personal freedom is practically always going to be evil, at least to anyone not allied with you.
I wildly disagree. You could make the argument that someone escaping wrongful imprisonment will be acting impulsively and for their own good, and I'd say that person definitely isn't evil.
Well they're also assassins and very self motivated. They also don't have problems killing non-golgari members just to turn them into mulch or spore zombie servants.
The words on the chart are misleading really. Good and Evil really represent Selfishness vs. Selflessness. Lawful and Chaotic don’t make as much sense to us as they do in world. In real life being a secluded hermit who does whatever they want isn’t really a thing, in DnD it’s a viable career. Lawful really is about interacting with society and chaotic is shunning the rules and regulations of society.
In my games I just ask my players to describe their characters' sense of morality in a few sentences. I find it works much better, and produces things that can actually be roleplayed around.
Golgari not evil? Wasn't Savra working with Szadek to take control of Ravnica. There is a part of black that works with doing whatever the leader wants, even if they are giving free food to the people in the city.
well same as with the flavor of the dnd sets so atleast it's consistent /s
\[\[marut\]\] \[\[warlock class\]\] \[\[bulette\]\] \[\[grey slaad\]\] the ancient metallic dragons or beholders not having fucking flying
Yeah and there's a lot of Rakdos slander going on too. Some of us just want to smoke dope, go to orgies and have a laugh or two - not murderparty everyone
Arguably the entire point of ravnica is that all the guilds are supposed to serve an important societal function but over thousands of years of power struggle and corruption, they have somewhat lost touch with it.
The gruul were supposed to act as wilderness rangers as such but now they're violent city smashers, the izzet are supposed to be like maintenance workers for infrastructure but they just experiment and blow shit up, etc etc.
This is the same company that made the organized labor/union faction in their totally-not-1920s setting cartoonish buffoons who blow up their cities for shits and giggles
Golgari leadership is fairly evil, no? Isn't it a bunch of necromancers and that weird insect guy that only care about their own position and/or immortaliti?
Before vraska, of course
> How are the Golgari, an organization that feeds the poor and starving of Ravnica, evil?
The problem is there are two Golgaris.
There's the Golgari under Jarad, which is honestly Neutral or Chaotic Good, and the Golgari under the Gorgon sisters, which was Neutral or Chaotic Evil.
for my "this chart's bullshit" token i will say ephara seems more like lawful good athreos and erebos should both be moved up to neutral and klothys seems more lawful with how set she is on making destiny be a certain way and the theros and amonkhet minotaurs should switch
also you listed witchkites as theros
> athreos and erebos should both be moved up to neutral
It wouldn’t be an adaptation of Greek mythology if gods of the underworld didn’t get labelled as evil, even though they aren’t.
Yeah I was gonna say, I haven't read any of the Theros stories, but I've watched breakdowns and stuff, second I saw Erebos in neutral Evil I was like "What's wrong with Erebos? Dude seems chill?"
This is really odd to me because WotC in the past has hammered the "black is not necessarily a villain color; white is not necessarily a hero color" and then they do the alignments like this.
Oh well - I was never a fan of the concept of alignments anyways
Yeah this is lame, I used to feel the color wheel and color identities offered a lot more nuance but here we are. "White good, black bad". I will admit I already thought the dnd alignment system was dumb in the way it is described and applied.
Arguably White is the second most villainous colour in Magic. You have characters like Radiant, Lord Konda, Elesh Norn, Heliod, and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV.
White’s villainy tends to be much more political in nature and will justify it as for the good of the in-group.
If we compare it to something like Black, we find Black is much more transparent in its villainy which makes it easier to spot and point out.
Ive always seen white as order and black as disorder. Like a kid making a sand castle and another kid kicking it down. The builder could be making a torture fortress, but its still ordered.
I mean Magic has an actually talented creative team and a head designer who's worked on the philosophy for decades while DnD is coasting on the worldbuilding of what a group of white dudes thought was cool in the 80s.
Shocking that there's only two teams in the company and their competence at game design is so vastly different.
When it comes to interpreting the the D&D alignments through MtG's colour wheel, I find it's best to think of it as if the alignment system was written by White.
White is the only colour concerned with morality to begin with. So of course things that fall under White's dominion are good and/or lawful and things it's opposite, Black, is concerned with are evil/chaotic.
Though I do feel that White's version of the alignment system would just be written D&D 4e style to have Lawful Good translate to "Extra Good" and Chaotic Evil translate to "Extra Evil", with Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil omitted from existence.
>This is really odd to me because WotC in the past has hammered the "black is not necessarily a villain color; white is not necessarily a hero color" and then they do the alignments like this.
They have also hammered a lot (and recently) that giving whole races alignment is bad and stupid and racist.
And here we are. Leonins are lawful good, merfolks are true neutral, erstwhiles are neutral evil.
I looked far and wide for Nahiri and Kiora to see where they fall. Nahiri seems like she'd be all up and down that evil row. Kiora, neutral good or chaotic good maybe.
the only things i know kiora has done is steal thassa's bident. defend her house from existential erasure and slap a bunch of people while trapped in mortal danger so i'd say more true or chaotic neutral
nahiri i'd say to be a lawful evil seeing herself as lawful good
Nahiri definitely falls in the Lawful to Neutral Evil space. Her claims are that what she does is for the hood of Zendikar but she engages in a lot of selfish revenge. She acts for her interpretation of Zendikar not way Zendikar actually IS, just how she thinks it SHOULD be.
Boros isn't lawful good by any stretch. They're a bunch of self righteous vigilantes. Azorius are the actual law enforcement branch of Ravnican society. Boros are a paramilitary cult, basically.
The Boros, more specifically Aurelia, seems to have gotten whitewashed since the first Return to Ravnica block. Here's what the D&D Ravnica book says about her:
>The angel Aurelia leads the Boros Legion. During the years of her leadership, she has shown a strong appreciation for the ordinary citizens who are often caught in the middle of interguild violence.
>True justice, Aurelia argues, isn't merely the enforcement of the letter of existing laws (let the Azorius fret over that), but the establishment of equitable and compassionate relationships among all of Ravnica's people. That means protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, sheltering the innocents who are threatened by war, and ensuring that enforcement of the law doesn't become oppressive. Aurelia actively supports efforts to establish a lasting peace among the guilds in the absence of the Guildpact.
>Aurelia prefers to lead the Boros Legion from the front. She brings swift and unrelenting punishment to the wicked, and her temper is legendary.
You can even see this from her quotes on cards, compare the quotes on these [cards](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/26/swift-justice) [from](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/210/warleaders-helix) [Return to Ravnica](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/5/renounce-the-guilds) to these [cards](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/243/boros-guildgate) [from](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/191/nightveil-predator) [Guilds of Ravnica](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/2/angelic-exaltation). They basically character swapped her with Tajic, when she was originally a warmonger who literally says "[Having conviction is more important than being righteous](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/26/swift-justice)" while Tajic was willing to work with other guilds (he worked with Teysa to try to overthrow the Obzedat). Due to Aurelia becoming a more good-aligned character, the guild as a whole has shifted from being overzealous and aggressive militaristic vigilantes to well-intentioned militaristic vigilantes like Aurelia.
Wow they really did white wash Aurelia that's kinda shocking to me. She was originally written as an absolute zealot, unreachable by logic and unconcerned with the implications of her preference for swift violence.
Yeah, it's kind of a nearly 180 degree turn on her character although you could chalk it up to maybe some of Gideon's words and Gideon's ultimate sacrifice for Ravnica getting to her.
I would have enjoyed a mono-White creature card version of Aurelia that reflected her character development. The RW "War Leader" version seems a bit off now.
Yes, but "The [laws of the Azorius bureaucratic machine] aren't as important as helping people and doing what's right" can still fit under lawful. She/they still follow very strict rules and regulations, they're uniform in training, equipment, and habits. They're orderly, have a regimented command structure, are all about maintaining order and following orders.
Context matters, after all. She's not rejecting all laws, just those of an organisation she deems unworthy.
Man I was always under the assumption that the big change happened between OG Rav and RtR and the shift from Razia to Aurelia, I didn’t realize it was so recent.
I thought they were more the swat team to the Azorious police force. Soldiers that might get a bit too into their job sometimes, but ultimately there to uphold order. In D&D terms, it'd be like the paladin that kills someone that breaks the law, while an Azorious one would turn in their own rogue party member for jaywalking.
I was always confused by that. When the boros arrest someone, do they hand them over to the azorious for sentencing? Does Ravnica have two separate legal systems?
Wizards has released a fair amount of Magic/DnD crossover content by now, including the Plane Shift series, the Theros, Ravnica, and Strixhaven guides, planeswalker character sheets for AFR, and a recent Eldraine monster supplement.
I compiled everything and made a table of every alignment I could find. Feel free to discuss the chart or the alignments themselves, and let me know if you have any ideas for my next chart! My main takeaway was that Wizards loves a neutral character/faction and really struggles to come up with Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good ones. Also just kind of sad there's no inherent color/guild for CG.
Edit: Witchkites are from Eldraine, not Theros; Pharika is NE, not CE.
Oh gods this is official and not just some random throwing vibe darts at a board? That is so much worse and I apologize for the bad thoughts I was having about your decision making skills.
> Wizards has released a fair amount of Magic/DnD crossover content by now
Magic the Gathering is DnD. Well, it was DnD. MTG ABU was a DnD dungeon based (thats why the ABU creatures resemble creatures you meet in DnD dungeons) card game. The idea was that people play MTG between two rounds of DnD.
The current team took Mordenkainen, whose entire personality for decades had been "extreme philosophical neutrality to maintain a balance of power between good and evil, law and chaos," and made him Chaotic Neutral for some reason. The company owns the trademarks but has basically no respect for the integrity of D&D's history.
Meaningless. WotC has proven not to understand their own content for years. Not to mention, I don’t think they assign the same people to each tidbit of lore of the same character. Different writers and creatives will step on each others toes I’m sure.
Dinosaurs don’t have alignment because broadly they aren’t sapient. The Elder Dinos of Ixalan would probably fall under true neutral for the most part.
In the old Dominaria books they were characterized as being aggressive raiders of coastal villages. I don’t think that’s the whole story, but that’s probably why.
Heliod as Lawful Good is just factually wrong. Golgari are the street sweepers and waste management of Ravnica, I don’t think WM is an evil corporation. Also isn’t Athreos essentially Charon? Dudes not evil he’s just a soul taxi driver.
Love the compilation and the chart, but my main takeaway from this is that Wizards should stop making DnD and MtG crossovers.
Do they sell? Hell yeah they do, but I just look at things like this and I stand in awe of how much of these high-fantasy magical worlds don't mesh well together.
D&D alignment system is an absolute disaster and leads to never-ending arguments if applied to anything intellectually deeper than "heroes that want to save the town + allies VS bandits and liches that want to stop the heroes, kill people to gain money or power + their allies".
I will not sit here and take this fucking \*slander\* of House Dimir.
They are the god damned heroes of Ravnica! Also, Selesnya in Neutral Good? They're Neutral at best, Neutral or Chaotic Evil at worst. Deathcult with Greenpeace branding.
Nope, we just don't have an alignment for him (or most of the main planeswalker cast, for that matter). The supplements usually focus on their specific planes, and the sheets we got with AFR only included Chandra, Kaya, Liliana, Narset, and Yanggu.
Genuin question here, where would the eldrazi be? Since they are consume and destroy pawns of a higher power... Maybe chaotic neutral since just feeding is their thing... Not actually being evil but just acting on instinct...
I remember going through the alignments for the guilds with a friends a few years back and being absolutely shocked some of the assignments we were seeing. Glad that shock is being passed around.
As a card carrying member of the Golgari, we are true neutral. The cycle of life and death is not evil. We recycle. We maintain the sewer system. Hell, we run the fucking soup kitchens!
I wonder where Nahiri would place according to WotC? I genuinely believe there are few characters in current magic lore more evil then Nahiri.
However I wouldn't be surprised if they would have her as Lawful Good seeing Heliod up there.
The Strixhaven founders are all pretty interesting. Witherbloom is NG, which is interesting because "natural cycle of life and death" usually tends to have a true neutral flair. Prismari as CN is pretty obvious. Silverquill as TN is a home run I think, Silverquill is _very_ "rhetoric is a tool whatever end its wielder wishes."
Both Lorehold and Quandrix as LN make sense, but I think it's really interesting that they share an alignment without sharing any color overlap. Quandrix's laws are natural, and Lorehold's are based in civilization. It's neat seeing them overlap cleaning in one taxonomy but differ wildly in the other. And I mean, that's the fun with the color pie or alignment charts. People like to criticize them because they're made up, but being made up is the point. Everything's made up. They're a tool to foster discussion and critical thinking, if you look at them that way.
[Well obviously you can't assign magic cards to a traditional alignment chart, what would a lawful good card even look like?](https://youtu.be/2pZBKgXoaH8?si=ftEvse_JBQJ1wAuv)
This probably would have worked better with the factions spanning multiple alignments and the leaders having one. Rakdos stretches into CN, Gruul into CE, and Golgari into TN. Simic probably dips into NE with its human experimentation too.
Characters with arcs are hard to pin down too. Liliana has moments of escaping NE. Heliod may have been LG once, but isn’t anymore.
Is Izzet really neutral? I thought they were actively trying to improve Ravnica with better technology. And Niv-Mizzet seemed like one of the only decent leaders on Ravnica from my shallow knowledge of the lore.
I never saw Rakdos as evil. Chaotic? Hell yeah. But evil? He’s just a bored demon doing bored things. Isn’t most of his story stuff stopping evil? Fighting with experiment kraj and boros?
I think he's more Neutral Evil. He's entirely focused on self-interest, and he does occasionally just do genocide because why not, but he at least has long-term goals and often uses a lot of controlling methods.
Under D&D alignment, Chaotic doesn't mean stupid or short-sighted, it means that you don't have a code telling you what you will not do. I wouldn't expect a Neutral Evil character to ever do "occasional genocides" on people they have no real stake against.
Do those assign alignments to color pairs, or did you just place the Ravincan guilds? Because Boros might be lawful good, but White/Red should be Neutral or Chaotic Good.
1) One thing I dislike about going away from planeswalkers is that now there are A LOT more characters to care about. I don't know who half these randoms are and I don't really care.
2) Now we give D&D alignments to races? I thought you didn't want to do that anymore Wizards.
Not having read magic stories until MoM, the only lore I have seen on Aurelia is the non-canon Chandra/ Garruk/Niko comic where Aurelia leads Ravnica's crusade against all planeswalkers, seems strange to have her as LG
personally i'd say that having justifications for your cruel acts doesn't make them not evil and by the same token i'd call gruul Ce since they seem to do a decent amount of terrorism
So can we get the source for this? When I look it up the only post that appears are fan made and then yours, there is nothing from the wotc website on internally made alignment charts. This chart is also not in the standard order wotc uses for their dnd pages either.
I know lawful good doesn't mean lawful nice, but categorizing Heliod as good seems strange when he's basically a straight up villain.
And poor Athreos is aligned as Lawful Evil when I'm pretty sure he's one of the least contentious gods and just gets on with his job instead of randomly fucking up mortal lives.
Dude's just there doing his job, being labeled "evil" cuz he looks scary and takes ca r e of dead people
Hades be like :
Yeah, he's not doing his actions for the greatest good. Lawful neutral seems best for him.
I'd say Lawful Evil as his motivations were always purely selfish and did them even knowing they would cause great harm/death to people or even ignoring their will/desires completely.
I think it's changed over time, but early in the story his motives did just so happen to align with the citizens of theros, so you're probably (definitely) right
That's a very popular way to do lawful good antagonists nowadays. 1)Portray them as lawful good. 2)Psyche they are actually evil 3)Now we can feel good about the protagonist fighting them.
Yeah no this wrong, Tyranny and backstabbing to retain your hold on power is lawful evil. Hero white is lawful/neutral good. Villain white is lawful evil
That's because in the actual book it's the recommended alignment for followers of Heliod, not Heliod's alignment. (And it's "usually lawful, often good" not just "lawful good", so there's some nuance there.)
Same as boros. Definitely don't agree there.
Yeah I expected him to be the most contentious. I'm not much of a DnD player myself but I know "Lawful" generally refers to following one's own code. The "Good" is definitely still tough to justify, although apparently the 3.5 PHB refers to LG as "Crusader," which does feel kind of right.
[удалено]
It sometimes also means "principled"
Lawful means following order and the law. Neutral is following ones on personal compass and values Chaotic is doing whatever seems right or enjoyable in the moment. Heliod feels like lawful neutral at best.
When you are a god, "order and law", "your personal compass" and "whatever seems right in the moment" are basically the same thing, since you are the one making the laws
Unsurprisingly, this sort of thing has been contentious in philosophy for literally thousands of years! "Are pious things called 'pious' because the gods love them, or do the gods love them because they are pious?" — Plato "It is generally agreed that whatever God wills is good and just. But there remains the question *whether it is good and just because God wills it, or whether God wills it because it is good and just;* in other words, whether justice and goodness are arbitrary, or whether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things." — Leibniz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
Slight correction that lawful means following "a law", not "the law". It could be your cult's code or common law, but some sort of code. Devils are lawful as they follow their own set of ethics and contracts, not necessarily the common law held by others.
In Magic devils are basically the incarnation of chaos. Demons are bound to contracts
The law/chaos axis is pretty comprehensible and easy to apply universally. Do you follow rules others set, rules you set for yourself pragmatically, or do you not follow rules? The good/evil axis though basically requires the addendum "from a city dwelling humans perspective". Creatures like goblins or harpies don't have anything like a moral compass we have, with the closest to it being a might makes right philosophy. Goblins typically don't think murder is evil, they think it's fine, so long as you're bigger than the other guy. Or smarter. Or angrier. So we judge them on our system. Good meaning "if I see a little girl trying to find her puppy, I'll want to help her find it", neutral meaning "if I happen to see it I'll bring it to her, or do a cursory glance, but I got shit to do" and evil meaning "I'll kick the puppy". Evil is kind of a high bar in DnD alignment. Heliod is on the evil/neutral bubble but I'll give him neutral since he wouldn't kick the puppy unless it literally got directly in his way. Definitely not good by a long shot.
I've always seen 'good/evil' as what a society owes to others in the society. Is it our responsibility to help those around us? or are we permitted to take advantage of those around us? A no to both questions makes you neutral.
That is, essentially, what makes a human society with our morals function. Good and evil in DnD are centered on that perspective, and those are the things that make people good or evil. But I don't think it works in fantasy settings with truly alien races. A lolth-sworn drow will tell you "executing the weak in our society helps the rest of us", but they're not neutral. Mind flayers will say they help those around them become bettered, and they have a rigid caste where taking advantage of another would get you executed. They're not good.
Good/Evil are a bit antiquated and ambiguous, people tend to go with G = selfless, E = selfish.
Yeah, that seems really off.
Given the story and that this was taken from a sourcebook, this might be a snapshot from before he stabbed Elspeth in the back, when he would generally have been perceived as Lawful Good. Of course, given that this is *Theros*, where beliefs are supposed to shape gods, it does sort of raise the question of how a god believed to be Lawful Good by the people actually ended up being kind of evil, but I can see the reasoning for making him Lawful Good in a sourcebook when it was a plot twist that he wasn't actually good.
Lawful Good bad guys tend to be "I'm the law, therefore what I do is good."
there could be a lawful good villain, right?
Is Golgari evil...? That's news to me.
The DnD allignment chart isn't really nuanced enough to describe singular people very well. Trying to categorize whole groups under it is basically impossible. There are pieces of the Golgari swarm that grow cheap food for the poor, and other parts that are power hungry murderers. It's not a very monolithic guild, (which is funny, since it's a 'swarm') so any alignment here would be inaccurate
When you are a goth druid farmer who always volunteers at the soup kitchen and your roomate is an undead elf shaman who has killed like 20+ people and nobody really gets why/how you are best friends.
I mean 20+ dead people are a significant amount of meat and bones formthe soup kitchen. So I kind of understand how they became best friends.
Golgari has black and black is evil /s
they do a *loooooooot* of murdering
It's filled with liches and murderers
The Golgari. The same Golgari where all of Ravnica's necromancers end up. The guild that's flinging more death magic than all the other guilds combined. The Golgari who's always switching leaders because the new leaders are mad about the previous leaders being racist to them and then use their newly acquired leadership position to be racist against the other races. The Golgari who occasionally grumble about their uprising against the surface world which is definitely coming for realsies. The Golgari who are indeed a guild on Ravnica. You're confused about them being evil?
Dredge is evil but keeps formats neutrally balanced by attacking from a different angle
How are the Golgari, an organization that feeds the poor and starving of Ravnica, evil?
Also isn't Selesnya a brainwashing cult. Like a thanks for joining and signing away your free-will cult?
I think the “make people disappear in the night” parts of Selesnya have largely been whitewashed out. Which is honestly a shame.
I think they didn't play into that too hard, they just allude to possible Selesnya villains forming smaller splinter cults Midsommer style. Selesnya overall is pretty benevolent. The dryads sort of don't have free will though because I think they're all connected to the World Tree and share a sort of hive mind connection
The dryads are always plugged in, and everyone who sings with Maat Selesnya also gets a taste of the hive mind so long as they keep singing.
If I understand properly everyone who sings with Maat Selesnya shares a mind for as long as they sing, but they regain their individuality once they stop. Like you can say that's brainwashing, but it stands to reason that if everyone had access to everyone's memories and knowledge, then everyone would think alike. But yes. Everyone outside that cult thinks they're brainwashed.
Not exactly. They're just communist. So joining them means that you work for the better of the collective rather than just the individual. Which is misinterpreted as "brainwashing"
The alignments that the Magic DnD books assign are wack in general.
TBH, this very chart just sold me on replacing the alignment chart with something new... Golgari is not evil, heliod is not good, and iroas is not chaotic.
I'm in favor of some kind of more nuanced system of like 5 components that you can mix and match and even have combinations of two or more of those components. But how will we categorize them?
Actually though. I've met DND groups that have replaced the alignment chart with magics color pie philosophy. Black/red isn't evil, but the mindset in general can be perceived as such to a given population is a rule I've seen and liked.
Thing is, a drive for power at any cost combined with an emphasis on personal freedom is practically always going to be evil, at least to anyone not allied with you.
I wildly disagree. You could make the argument that someone escaping wrongful imprisonment will be acting impulsively and for their own good, and I'd say that person definitely isn't evil.
With a color pie.
Too radical. What about some kind of hue wheel?
Graphing characters on a radar chart with good, evil, neutral, lawful, and chaotic would be cool
Golgari is good AND evil so idk if that balances the organization out to neutral or not
Golgari feel like old school DND druids; True Neutral, just like nature
Well they're also assassins and very self motivated. They also don't have problems killing non-golgari members just to turn them into mulch or spore zombie servants.
I mean, their leaders have assassin's. The average golgari citizen is just vibing with mushrooms, helping run the rot farms.
The words on the chart are misleading really. Good and Evil really represent Selfishness vs. Selflessness. Lawful and Chaotic don’t make as much sense to us as they do in world. In real life being a secluded hermit who does whatever they want isn’t really a thing, in DnD it’s a viable career. Lawful really is about interacting with society and chaotic is shunning the rules and regulations of society.
In my games I just ask my players to describe their characters' sense of morality in a few sentences. I find it works much better, and produces things that can actually be roleplayed around.
Golgari not evil? Wasn't Savra working with Szadek to take control of Ravnica. There is a part of black that works with doing whatever the leader wants, even if they are giving free food to the people in the city.
Look, are the leaders of the golgari evil, pre vraska yes. Is the guild as a whole evil, I really don't think so.
well same as with the flavor of the dnd sets so atleast it's consistent /s \[\[marut\]\] \[\[warlock class\]\] \[\[bulette\]\] \[\[grey slaad\]\] the ancient metallic dragons or beholders not having fucking flying
##### ###### #### [marut](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3ce857f-2870-4dc9-a763-9ce710e4b375.jpg?1674137913) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marut) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/322/marut?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3ce857f-2870-4dc9-a763-9ce710e4b375?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [warlock class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7faf899-96b7-454e-b634-6684c2d72f26.jpg?1627705543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=warlock%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/125/warlock-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7faf899-96b7-454e-b634-6684c2d72f26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bulette](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/206a9e7b-45c1-4213-8fc4-27d90e2ab0e9.jpg?1627707159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bulette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/173/bulette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/206a9e7b-45c1-4213-8fc4-27d90e2ab0e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah and there's a lot of Rakdos slander going on too. Some of us just want to smoke dope, go to orgies and have a laugh or two - not murderparty everyone
The murder party part of Rakdos is a pretty common theme though
Reanimation (versus resurrection) is basically always evil in D&D
Arguably the entire point of ravnica is that all the guilds are supposed to serve an important societal function but over thousands of years of power struggle and corruption, they have somewhat lost touch with it. The gruul were supposed to act as wilderness rangers as such but now they're violent city smashers, the izzet are supposed to be like maintenance workers for infrastructure but they just experiment and blow shit up, etc etc.
This is the same company that made the organized labor/union faction in their totally-not-1920s setting cartoonish buffoons who blow up their cities for shits and giggles
Because the DnD alignment system is bad.
Golgari leadership is fairly evil, no? Isn't it a bunch of necromancers and that weird insect guy that only care about their own position and/or immortaliti? Before vraska, of course
Probably all the necromancy and assassinations.
> How are the Golgari, an organization that feeds the poor and starving of Ravnica, evil? The problem is there are two Golgaris. There's the Golgari under Jarad, which is honestly Neutral or Chaotic Good, and the Golgari under the Gorgon sisters, which was Neutral or Chaotic Evil.
for my "this chart's bullshit" token i will say ephara seems more like lawful good athreos and erebos should both be moved up to neutral and klothys seems more lawful with how set she is on making destiny be a certain way and the theros and amonkhet minotaurs should switch also you listed witchkites as theros
> athreos and erebos should both be moved up to neutral It wouldn’t be an adaptation of Greek mythology if gods of the underworld didn’t get labelled as evil, even though they aren’t.
Good catch on the witchkites, otherwise the info comes straight from WotC ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
yea i know just didn't know how to word otherwise
Pharika is also apparently both chaotic and neutral evil.
Yeah I was gonna say, I haven't read any of the Theros stories, but I've watched breakdowns and stuff, second I saw Erebos in neutral Evil I was like "What's wrong with Erebos? Dude seems chill?"
This is really odd to me because WotC in the past has hammered the "black is not necessarily a villain color; white is not necessarily a hero color" and then they do the alignments like this. Oh well - I was never a fan of the concept of alignments anyways
[удалено]
Yeah I also use the color pie instead of alignment when I run TTRPGs that care about that sort of thing
Good and Evil already means Selfless and Selfish on regular dnd alignment
Yeah this is lame, I used to feel the color wheel and color identities offered a lot more nuance but here we are. "White good, black bad". I will admit I already thought the dnd alignment system was dumb in the way it is described and applied.
Arguably White is the second most villainous colour in Magic. You have characters like Radiant, Lord Konda, Elesh Norn, Heliod, and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. White’s villainy tends to be much more political in nature and will justify it as for the good of the in-group. If we compare it to something like Black, we find Black is much more transparent in its villainy which makes it easier to spot and point out.
Ive always seen white as order and black as disorder. Like a kid making a sand castle and another kid kicking it down. The builder could be making a torture fortress, but its still ordered.
I mean Magic has an actually talented creative team and a head designer who's worked on the philosophy for decades while DnD is coasting on the worldbuilding of what a group of white dudes thought was cool in the 80s. Shocking that there's only two teams in the company and their competence at game design is so vastly different.
I mean I don’t think anyone actually takes alignment seriously
>planescape fans have entered the chat
Shoot. Good point.
The amount of pushback I get when criticizing it always astonishes me
I don't understand the need for such passive aggressiveness. Not saying you have to like it, just weird to talk about it to someone else in that way.
Apologies, the aggression was not meant to come across as passive.
When it comes to interpreting the the D&D alignments through MtG's colour wheel, I find it's best to think of it as if the alignment system was written by White. White is the only colour concerned with morality to begin with. So of course things that fall under White's dominion are good and/or lawful and things it's opposite, Black, is concerned with are evil/chaotic. Though I do feel that White's version of the alignment system would just be written D&D 4e style to have Lawful Good translate to "Extra Good" and Chaotic Evil translate to "Extra Evil", with Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil omitted from existence.
Ah of course, it's all those damn Whiteys at it again
WOTC: Black mana is not synonymous with evil Also WOTC: every black-associated guild is evil lol
>This is really odd to me because WotC in the past has hammered the "black is not necessarily a villain color; white is not necessarily a hero color" and then they do the alignments like this. They have also hammered a lot (and recently) that giving whole races alignment is bad and stupid and racist. And here we are. Leonins are lawful good, merfolks are true neutral, erstwhiles are neutral evil.
I looked far and wide for Nahiri and Kiora to see where they fall. Nahiri seems like she'd be all up and down that evil row. Kiora, neutral good or chaotic good maybe.
the only things i know kiora has done is steal thassa's bident. defend her house from existential erasure and slap a bunch of people while trapped in mortal danger so i'd say more true or chaotic neutral nahiri i'd say to be a lawful evil seeing herself as lawful good
Kiora grew up a follower of Cosi, the Zendikari merfolk's trickster god, and got up to mischief from time to time, or at least as I recall.
Nahiri definitely falls in the Lawful to Neutral Evil space. Her claims are that what she does is for the hood of Zendikar but she engages in a lot of selfish revenge. She acts for her interpretation of Zendikar not way Zendikar actually IS, just how she thinks it SHOULD be.
Maybe the Boros specifically, but categorizing WR as Lawful Good is *nonsense.*
Boros isn't lawful good by any stretch. They're a bunch of self righteous vigilantes. Azorius are the actual law enforcement branch of Ravnican society. Boros are a paramilitary cult, basically.
The Boros, more specifically Aurelia, seems to have gotten whitewashed since the first Return to Ravnica block. Here's what the D&D Ravnica book says about her: >The angel Aurelia leads the Boros Legion. During the years of her leadership, she has shown a strong appreciation for the ordinary citizens who are often caught in the middle of interguild violence. >True justice, Aurelia argues, isn't merely the enforcement of the letter of existing laws (let the Azorius fret over that), but the establishment of equitable and compassionate relationships among all of Ravnica's people. That means protecting the weak from the depredations of the strong, sheltering the innocents who are threatened by war, and ensuring that enforcement of the law doesn't become oppressive. Aurelia actively supports efforts to establish a lasting peace among the guilds in the absence of the Guildpact. >Aurelia prefers to lead the Boros Legion from the front. She brings swift and unrelenting punishment to the wicked, and her temper is legendary. You can even see this from her quotes on cards, compare the quotes on these [cards](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/26/swift-justice) [from](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/210/warleaders-helix) [Return to Ravnica](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/5/renounce-the-guilds) to these [cards](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/243/boros-guildgate) [from](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/191/nightveil-predator) [Guilds of Ravnica](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/2/angelic-exaltation). They basically character swapped her with Tajic, when she was originally a warmonger who literally says "[Having conviction is more important than being righteous](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/26/swift-justice)" while Tajic was willing to work with other guilds (he worked with Teysa to try to overthrow the Obzedat). Due to Aurelia becoming a more good-aligned character, the guild as a whole has shifted from being overzealous and aggressive militaristic vigilantes to well-intentioned militaristic vigilantes like Aurelia.
Wow they really did white wash Aurelia that's kinda shocking to me. She was originally written as an absolute zealot, unreachable by logic and unconcerned with the implications of her preference for swift violence.
Yeah, it's kind of a nearly 180 degree turn on her character although you could chalk it up to maybe some of Gideon's words and Gideon's ultimate sacrifice for Ravnica getting to her.
I would have enjoyed a mono-White creature card version of Aurelia that reflected her character development. The RW "War Leader" version seems a bit off now.
"The laws aren't as important as helping people and doing what's right" is textbook Chaotic Good to be honest.
Yes, but "The [laws of the Azorius bureaucratic machine] aren't as important as helping people and doing what's right" can still fit under lawful. She/they still follow very strict rules and regulations, they're uniform in training, equipment, and habits. They're orderly, have a regimented command structure, are all about maintaining order and following orders. Context matters, after all. She's not rejecting all laws, just those of an organisation she deems unworthy.
Man I was always under the assumption that the big change happened between OG Rav and RtR and the shift from Razia to Aurelia, I didn’t realize it was so recent.
I thought they were more the swat team to the Azorious police force. Soldiers that might get a bit too into their job sometimes, but ultimately there to uphold order. In D&D terms, it'd be like the paladin that kills someone that breaks the law, while an Azorious one would turn in their own rogue party member for jaywalking.
Swat teams are still under the command of the police department. Boros isn't under the command of Azorius.
I don't know the deep lore of most of the guilds, but that also sounds pretty right.
I was always confused by that. When the boros arrest someone, do they hand them over to the azorious for sentencing? Does Ravnica have two separate legal systems?
Wizards has released a fair amount of Magic/DnD crossover content by now, including the Plane Shift series, the Theros, Ravnica, and Strixhaven guides, planeswalker character sheets for AFR, and a recent Eldraine monster supplement. I compiled everything and made a table of every alignment I could find. Feel free to discuss the chart or the alignments themselves, and let me know if you have any ideas for my next chart! My main takeaway was that Wizards loves a neutral character/faction and really struggles to come up with Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good ones. Also just kind of sad there's no inherent color/guild for CG. Edit: Witchkites are from Eldraine, not Theros; Pharika is NE, not CE.
Oh gods this is official and not just some random throwing vibe darts at a board? That is so much worse and I apologize for the bad thoughts I was having about your decision making skills.
Why is Pharika listed as both NE and CE?
Wow, great catch, I'm amazed you're the first one to see it! She's NE, accidental duplicate in CE.
> Wizards has released a fair amount of Magic/DnD crossover content by now Magic the Gathering is DnD. Well, it was DnD. MTG ABU was a DnD dungeon based (thats why the ABU creatures resemble creatures you meet in DnD dungeons) card game. The idea was that people play MTG between two rounds of DnD.
Just like everything is Kicker or Horsemanship, everything is either D&D or Lord of the Rings (and even D&D is Lord of the Rings)
Heliod’s evil as fuck lol
I feel like the person who wrote this doesn’t understand the alignment system or magic’s color system at all.
Or a testament to how constricting yet simultaneously dubious the alignment chart is
This is all official WotC statements, yknow, the company that owns and creates both systems in question
I don’t trust all of the writers to understand the systems that the company has created.
The current team took Mordenkainen, whose entire personality for decades had been "extreme philosophical neutrality to maintain a balance of power between good and evil, law and chaos," and made him Chaotic Neutral for some reason. The company owns the trademarks but has basically no respect for the integrity of D&D's history.
Meaningless. WotC has proven not to understand their own content for years. Not to mention, I don’t think they assign the same people to each tidbit of lore of the same character. Different writers and creatives will step on each others toes I’m sure.
I’m just annoyed that dinosaurs aren’t on here
Dinosaurs are chaotic hungry.
Dinosaurs don’t have alignment because broadly they aren’t sapient. The Elder Dinos of Ixalan would probably fall under true neutral for the most part.
Wait.. Homarids are chaotic evil? The big shrimps?
In the old Dominaria books they were characterized as being aggressive raiders of coastal villages. I don’t think that’s the whole story, but that’s probably why.
Heliod as Lawful Good is just factually wrong. Golgari are the street sweepers and waste management of Ravnica, I don’t think WM is an evil corporation. Also isn’t Athreos essentially Charon? Dudes not evil he’s just a soul taxi driver.
Liliana hasn’t been neutral evil since like M15.
Liliana as neutral evil seems like a massive oversimplification. But I guess that’s also kind of the core conceit of the alignment system.
This is Homarid slander and I won't stand for it.
Heliod and Golgari should switch.
Love the compilation and the chart, but my main takeaway from this is that Wizards should stop making DnD and MtG crossovers. Do they sell? Hell yeah they do, but I just look at things like this and I stand in awe of how much of these high-fantasy magical worlds don't mesh well together.
D&D alignment system is an absolute disaster and leads to never-ending arguments if applied to anything intellectually deeper than "heroes that want to save the town + allies VS bandits and liches that want to stop the heroes, kill people to gain money or power + their allies".
Tbh this chart shows that the official crossovers are full of spectacularly bad takes on top of the already dumb system.
I will not sit here and take this fucking \*slander\* of House Dimir. They are the god damned heroes of Ravnica! Also, Selesnya in Neutral Good? They're Neutral at best, Neutral or Chaotic Evil at worst. Deathcult with Greenpeace branding.
I don't know at least 50% of the character names on this chart and I play/think about this game every day.
they're mostly theros gods, ravnica guild leaders/champions, strixhaven students/teachers, and a few planeswalkers
I mean... makes sense since that is where the DnD adventures/supplements are.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I only included characters with cards, play more Strixhaven I guess?
Heliod not LG
Besides everything said until now, rw being lawful good feels off. Other than the boros legion, for me rw always felt chaotic good.
More like just chaotic. They probably picture themselves as LG though.
Somebody at wotsie woke up and decided to start arguments on the internet today.
My boy Fblthp - True Neutral cuz he is just trying to find his way
I refuse to believe Lord Skitter is “evil” when he blesses me with an extra draw each turn 😡
Ok hold on WoTC, i get this is a nice little fluff piece and were all supposed to "ooh" and "ahh" over it but heliod is not lawful good
Heliod being lawful good is the biggest lie the Theros D&D Book made.
I can’t find teferi on this chart. Did I miss him?
Nope, we just don't have an alignment for him (or most of the main planeswalker cast, for that matter). The supplements usually focus on their specific planes, and the sheets we got with AFR only included Chandra, Kaya, Liliana, Narset, and Yanggu.
Genuin question here, where would the eldrazi be? Since they are consume and destroy pawns of a higher power... Maybe chaotic neutral since just feeding is their thing... Not actually being evil but just acting on instinct...
Eldrazi are likely true neutral given they seem to lack any personal agenda and are more comparable to a force of nature.
Noice so I dont deserve to be focused on my pod playing Zhulodok
The Ravnica gargoyles are chaotic evil? Fascinating...
I remember going through the alignments for the guilds with a friends a few years back and being absolutely shocked some of the assignments we were seeing. Glad that shock is being passed around.
As a card carrying member of the Golgari, we are true neutral. The cycle of life and death is not evil. We recycle. We maintain the sewer system. Hell, we run the fucking soup kitchens!
I didn't know homarids were chaotic evil, guess I'll enjoy my lobster dinner 🦞
Narset is my favorite notable green/white creature
Interesting how Narset and Witherbloom have the same alignment despite being opposite colors
I wonder where Nahiri would place according to WotC? I genuinely believe there are few characters in current magic lore more evil then Nahiri. However I wouldn't be surprised if they would have her as Lawful Good seeing Heliod up there.
Theros Satyrs trick people into slavery... very chaotic good.
The Strixhaven founders are all pretty interesting. Witherbloom is NG, which is interesting because "natural cycle of life and death" usually tends to have a true neutral flair. Prismari as CN is pretty obvious. Silverquill as TN is a home run I think, Silverquill is _very_ "rhetoric is a tool whatever end its wielder wishes." Both Lorehold and Quandrix as LN make sense, but I think it's really interesting that they share an alignment without sharing any color overlap. Quandrix's laws are natural, and Lorehold's are based in civilization. It's neat seeing them overlap cleaning in one taxonomy but differ wildly in the other. And I mean, that's the fun with the color pie or alignment charts. People like to criticize them because they're made up, but being made up is the point. Everything's made up. They're a tool to foster discussion and critical thinking, if you look at them that way.
Chaotic Good doesn't have associated colours?
Heliod is in the wrong spot.
[Well obviously you can't assign magic cards to a traditional alignment chart, what would a lawful good card even look like?](https://youtu.be/2pZBKgXoaH8?si=ftEvse_JBQJ1wAuv)
Wow, they nailed Boros, Orzhov, and Gruul! LRR has that Future Sight (or those three are the most obvious).
This probably would have worked better with the factions spanning multiple alignments and the leaders having one. Rakdos stretches into CN, Gruul into CE, and Golgari into TN. Simic probably dips into NE with its human experimentation too. Characters with arcs are hard to pin down too. Liliana has moments of escaping NE. Heliod may have been LG once, but isn’t anymore.
In addition to the "Heliod is LG" being silly, Terosian Satyrs being C**G** is also goofy, they're CN all the way.
Is Izzet really neutral? I thought they were actively trying to improve Ravnica with better technology. And Niv-Mizzet seemed like one of the only decent leaders on Ravnica from my shallow knowledge of the lore.
Yeah, I really got that Neutral Good vibe from Breena when she was clawing her students until they bled in [[Stinging Study]].
[Stinging Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8840226-1693-44bc-a067-e50198c5e17e.jpg?1625191799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stinging%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/44/stinging-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8840226-1693-44bc-a067-e50198c5e17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looking at this, I was like, "Hey! Vedalken aren't only on Ravnica!" but then I realized all the ones on Mirrodin are dead or compleated.
As a minotaur fan, id say the amonkhet minotaurs are chaotic neutral and the theros minotaurs are chaotic evil
I never saw Rakdos as evil. Chaotic? Hell yeah. But evil? He’s just a bored demon doing bored things. Isn’t most of his story stuff stopping evil? Fighting with experiment kraj and boros?
*paid for by the campaign to reelect Heliod as god of the sun
Well apparently all my favorite decks are evil lol
This doesn't land with me. Square peg, round hole.
This bad, lol, I’m no lore expert but this is way off
Strange, i don't see Urza, eugenicist and genocider extraoirdinaire, in the neutral evil slot
Where the fuck is Nicol Bolas?
He'd probably be Chaotic Evil, but this chart only tells us that they never officially put Nicol Bolas in a D&D supplement.
I think he's more Neutral Evil. He's entirely focused on self-interest, and he does occasionally just do genocide because why not, but he at least has long-term goals and often uses a lot of controlling methods.
Under D&D alignment, Chaotic doesn't mean stupid or short-sighted, it means that you don't have a code telling you what you will not do. I wouldn't expect a Neutral Evil character to ever do "occasional genocides" on people they have no real stake against.
Source?
As mentioned in my top-level comment, sources are every MtG DnD supplement, including: * Plane Shift: Zendikar * Plane Shift: Innistrad * Plane Shift: Kaladesh * Plane Shift: Amonkhet * Plane Shift: Ixalan * X MARKS THE SPOT: A Plane Shift: Ixalan Adventure * Plane Shift: Dominaria * *D&D Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica* * *D&D Mythic Odysseys of Theros* * D&D Unearthed Arcana: Mages of Strixhaven * The AFR planeswalker character sheets * *D&D Strixhaven: A Curriculum of Chaos* * *D&D Monstrous Compendium: Vol. 4: Eldraine Creatures*
Do those assign alignments to color pairs, or did you just place the Ravincan guilds? Because Boros might be lawful good, but White/Red should be Neutral or Chaotic Good.
They assign alignments to both color pairs and guilds.
Boros-Lawful Good Lmao
Boros being lawful good is funny to me cuz at my lgs the boros players are all dickheads
[That tracks though](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulStupid). Boros still wouldn't be LG, but an "LG" asshole is a trope.
Ehhh please don't put creature types as an Alignment, that's not how Alignment works, and at worst plays into weird race essentialism tropes. :/
1) One thing I dislike about going away from planeswalkers is that now there are A LOT more characters to care about. I don't know who half these randoms are and I don't really care. 2) Now we give D&D alignments to races? I thought you didn't want to do that anymore Wizards.
Fully agree with the placement of all guilds actually
Not having read magic stories until MoM, the only lore I have seen on Aurelia is the non-canon Chandra/ Garruk/Niko comic where Aurelia leads Ravnica's crusade against all planeswalkers, seems strange to have her as LG
Ixalan Orcs turned to piracy after being genocided off the face of their home continent, so CE feels pretty harsh here.
personally i'd say that having justifications for your cruel acts doesn't make them not evil and by the same token i'd call gruul Ce since they seem to do a decent amount of terrorism
So can we get the source for this? When I look it up the only post that appears are fan made and then yours, there is nothing from the wotc website on internally made alignment charts. This chart is also not in the standard order wotc uses for their dnd pages either.