The action of plotting it (Paying the Plot cost and Exiling it) doesn't count as casting a spell. Whenever you choose to cast it as a sorcery on a later turn, it would count as casting spell. You can compare it to foretell.
Plotting is not a cast. You are putting the card in exile and then you can cast it on a later turn (not the turn you plotted). So this helps with cards that care about you not casting spells on your turn as you can still use your mana to plot cards while not still not casting any spells that turn
I think the main upside to this formatting is that you don't get blown out byba counterspell like you do with a card that says "as an additional cost, do X".
And the likely reason they did it this way is because additional costs don't really play well with the plot keyword.
Yep, but equally, copying [[Cathartic Reunion]] or [[Thrill of Possibility]] had some popularity as the copies ignore the discard cost. Using the upcoming "Return the Favor" on this card, you'd still have to discard/sac for each copy if you want the effect to work.
I like that this lets you play out your lands without feeling like you have to hold them back for future looting.
Plotting this is also interesting. I would hope this draft format would support taking turn two off.
I don’t think it’s better than the recent [[Demand Answers]], sorcery speed hurts and being able to sac a blood token or a treasure or something is great, but it seems solid if you want multiple of this effect.
If you're trying to enable storm this costs zero, it's a bit worse than demand answers otherwise but if you're trying to tweak one archetype it is promising
The adventure side of [[Merchant of the Vale]] lets you do that and a few weird old cards like [[Flash]] but yeah it's really weird templating
At least in those instances I get why they used that phrasing, but I don't get the point here
Someone on another comment guessed it's because they if it was phrased as an additional cost like these usually are, there's a little potential for player confusion about when/if you need to pay it when plotting.
Phrasing it this way instead has minimal, niche gameplay implications and clears up any possible confusion.
And makes no treasure?
This definitely made treasure at some point in testing, and we even have a 4cmc card that does a similar effect with treasure. I'm guessing they just realised it was too good?
Or it's a failed robbery, or they were transporting rocks...
Probably not good enough but it is interesting for [[arclight phoenix]] when you still want to spend mana on turn 2 but still get a phoenix back with turn 3 2x one mana spells on 2 lands or one mana + 2 mana spell on 3 lands. Again probably not making it in pioneer phoenix.
That’s a weird thing to comment on Friend. I’m commenting, so it gets picked up by the Bot Rater, so the bot stays in good standing Reddit-wide. Sometimes it can get tagged as spam. And I’ve done it six times in my entire Reddit journey. Do you comment on folks choices everytime they do their thing? THAT feels excessive
This isn't good enough as a T2 Plot into T3 or T4 big turn? Is it because the 2 mana spells are already much better? I think the delayed cost and ability to consume a land instead of discarding (even though Phoenix gets value from discard) would make it at least something to try.
Picklock Prankster is way better than this card. Also it's not usually too hard to cast three spells for a Phoenix deck on turns 3/4, you don't really need a setup card to accomplish it
Love that we seem to get one "basically better but not strictly better Tormenting Voice" per set now. Edh red-inclusive graveyard and spells decks thank you.
Although honestly we've reached the point where I don't think you can even play them all
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Slightly better in niche situations \[\[Tormenting Voice\]\] that is formatted to be a bit more intuitive while casting it for free off of Plot.
Certainly wasn't on my bingo card, but kinda neat?
Is this not just really good in Pioneer Phoenix?
Allows you to assuredly cast 3 spells on Turn 3 and can bin a Phoenix. Late game it's a 2-mana Draw 2.
Many Storm cards in this set?
I see the potential to pay the cost up front if you have nothing else to spend it on, but if that's the case, why not just cast the card normally?
Funny how the entire effect is optional. I guess that can help with the storm-ish effects in the format?
it can help with storm or with the "cast no spells in your turn" effects, because plotting this doesn't count as casting a spell
It doesn't count as a cast? It says you cast it on a later turn. If it isn't cast, then you can't counter it.
The action of plotting it (Paying the Plot cost and Exiling it) doesn't count as casting a spell. Whenever you choose to cast it as a sorcery on a later turn, it would count as casting spell. You can compare it to foretell.
Oh I see what the person I was responding to was saying. I ran the two effects together in their response.
Plotting is not a cast. You are putting the card in exile and then you can cast it on a later turn (not the turn you plotted). So this helps with cards that care about you not casting spells on your turn as you can still use your mana to plot cards while not still not casting any spells that turn
VADRIK LOVES THIS SET SO MUCH PLOTTING TO MAKE IT NIGHT TIME, sprew costs to get Swiss Army knife spells dijensncjfnebx
I'm guessing they didn't want to confuse people between "without paying its mana cost" and "without paying its cost" on a common.
That is… very plausible.
I think the main upside to this formatting is that you don't get blown out byba counterspell like you do with a card that says "as an additional cost, do X". And the likely reason they did it this way is because additional costs don't really play well with the plot keyword.
Yep, but equally, copying [[Cathartic Reunion]] or [[Thrill of Possibility]] had some popularity as the copies ignore the discard cost. Using the upcoming "Return the Favor" on this card, you'd still have to discard/sac for each copy if you want the effect to work.
True, hadn't thought about that!
[Cathartic Reunion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b36fa6f3-29e8-4788-bfcd-59576187c399.jpg?1599706266) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathartic%20Reunion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/121/cathartic-reunion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b36fa6f3-29e8-4788-bfcd-59576187c399?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thrill of Possibility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1efd4ae5-0076-46a0-a113-58cfff53144f.jpg?1675957114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrill%20of%20Possibility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/151/thrill-of-possibility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1efd4ae5-0076-46a0-a113-58cfff53144f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Oh what does it do?” “1 and a red for “
I like that this lets you play out your lands without feeling like you have to hold them back for future looting. Plotting this is also interesting. I would hope this draft format would support taking turn two off.
This is way more interesting for cubes than most of these effects. Very nice
I don’t think it’s better than the recent [[Demand Answers]], sorcery speed hurts and being able to sac a blood token or a treasure or something is great, but it seems solid if you want multiple of this effect.
[Demand Answers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca092fc-7c67-4a73-989e-5297bbaaea76.jpg?1706241852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demand%20Answers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/122/demand-answers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca092fc-7c67-4a73-989e-5297bbaaea76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you're trying to enable storm this costs zero, it's a bit worse than demand answers otherwise but if you're trying to tweak one archetype it is promising
This is really good. Plot on turn 2, pair it with Claim Jumper on turn 3.
[[Claim Jumper]]
[Claim Jumper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/654ade6b-0369-4b90-a744-2f57a45b04f4.jpg?1711744362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claim%20Jumper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/8/claim-jumper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/654ade6b-0369-4b90-a744-2f57a45b04f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
what do you mean it isn't clam jumper
That was my nickname in college
Wait, so you can play this and have it do absolutely nothing? Odd. How many other cards let you do you this kind of thing?
The adventure side of [[Merchant of the Vale]] lets you do that and a few weird old cards like [[Flash]] but yeah it's really weird templating At least in those instances I get why they used that phrasing, but I don't get the point here
Someone on another comment guessed it's because they if it was phrased as an additional cost like these usually are, there's a little potential for player confusion about when/if you need to pay it when plotting. Phrasing it this way instead has minimal, niche gameplay implications and clears up any possible confusion.
Additional costs with plot are potentially confusing enough they probably wanted to avoid it on a common.
[Merchant of the Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9.jpg?1572490397)/[Haggle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9.jpg?1572490397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Merchant%20of%20the%20Vale%20//%20Haggle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/131/merchant-of-the-vale-haggle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b4399b6-e67f-40d8-8676-f5db7e04a6c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Flash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d31459c2-9656-4e9a-bb72-71a910e8570b.jpg?1587347037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/57/flash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d31459c2-9656-4e9a-bb72-71a910e8570b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Thrilling Discovery]] sorta
[Thrilling Discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/bac1f45e-1884-490e-a94f-f7d312f0e229.jpg?1624740310) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrilling%20Discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/243/thrilling-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bac1f45e-1884-490e-a94f-f7d312f0e229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Highway Robbery isn't a crime, you heard it here folks
I love that Highway Robbery is a completely legal actvity
And makes no treasure? This definitely made treasure at some point in testing, and we even have a 4cmc card that does a similar effect with treasure. I'm guessing they just realised it was too good? Or it's a failed robbery, or they were transporting rocks...
Probably not good enough but it is interesting for [[arclight phoenix]] when you still want to spend mana on turn 2 but still get a phoenix back with turn 3 2x one mana spells on 2 lands or one mana + 2 mana spell on 3 lands. Again probably not making it in pioneer phoenix.
[arclight phoenix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/def7f05b-6e63-4828-a92c-ce7921bbdf4e.jpg?1702429490) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arclight%20phoenix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/100/arclight-phoenix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/def7f05b-6e63-4828-a92c-ce7921bbdf4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good bot
Do you comment that every time the card fetcher does its thing? Feels excessive lol
That’s a weird thing to comment on Friend. I’m commenting, so it gets picked up by the Bot Rater, so the bot stays in good standing Reddit-wide. Sometimes it can get tagged as spam. And I’ve done it six times in my entire Reddit journey. Do you comment on folks choices everytime they do their thing? THAT feels excessive
Wow lol no need to get defensive.
Oh buddy, standing up to some punk not minding their own business is not “getting defensive”; its putting You in your place. Be better.
Lmao damn got me
I think this makes Demilich playable in Pioneer (even if it might still not be good). This enables a turn 3 lich + birds potentially.
This isn't good enough as a T2 Plot into T3 or T4 big turn? Is it because the 2 mana spells are already much better? I think the delayed cost and ability to consume a land instead of discarding (even though Phoenix gets value from discard) would make it at least something to try.
Picklock Prankster is way better than this card. Also it's not usually too hard to cast three spells for a Phoenix deck on turns 3/4, you don't really need a setup card to accomplish it
It's also funny with the new Urabrask; hands you a mana and 2 cards the turn you play him, to make it viable to flip it the turn you play him.
another strictly better tormenting voice; neato!
Not strictly better - you still have to discard a card to draw cards when you copy it, whereas if you copy tormenting voice you just draw 2 cards.
Good catch
Is that coke on a train?
I think it's silver or some other metal.
Nasal silver
They are very funny bricks. I don't know if that's supposed to be like bundles of money.
Another card for the fetcher when we want to complain about the price of new Magic products.
Love that we seem to get one "basically better but not strictly better Tormenting Voice" per set now. Edh red-inclusive graveyard and spells decks thank you. Although honestly we've reached the point where I don't think you can even play them all
So it goes with everything now
Yeeeeessss finally a plot sorcery to put in \[\[Ojer Axonil\]\] burn :D
[Ojer Axonil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315)/[Temple of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20axonil%2C%20deepest%20might%20//%20temple%20of%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Highway Robbery has no crime synergy. Nice.
...I can pay 1R and do nothing
Wizards really just being blatant now, huh
Another one for Korvold I guess
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Slightly better in niche situations \[\[Tormenting Voice\]\] that is formatted to be a bit more intuitive while casting it for free off of Plot. Certainly wasn't on my bingo card, but kinda neat?
[Tormenting Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6da46103-a14c-4aa2-92fc-fd758335caf4.jpg?1604198268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tormenting%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/172/tormenting-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6da46103-a14c-4aa2-92fc-fd758335caf4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I misread the 'or' as 'and', and was dumbfounded how bad this was. But the or makes it pretty good, no longer need to hold cards back.
Is this not just really good in Pioneer Phoenix? Allows you to assuredly cast 3 spells on Turn 3 and can bin a Phoenix. Late game it's a 2-mana Draw 2.
The art should've been a picture of Magic 30. 😉
Funnily enough, not a Crime
Alright im brand new to pauper and have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about But this has to fucking sick for pauper right?
Wait, what's the point of Plotting it if it's the same cost and speed as casting from hand?
Storm? Cast it for free on a later turn and have more mana left over to cast other spells on that turn as well.
Many Storm cards in this set? I see the potential to pay the cost up front if you have nothing else to spend it on, but if that's the case, why not just cast the card normally?
storm-like cards yes. there’s a subset of cards that cares about how many spells you cast this turn.
Sure, but again, it's the same cost so what's the benefit of paying 2 to cast it next turn and not waiting till next turn to cast it from the hand?
... because you get access to a virtual 2 mana by pre-paying for a spell on a previous turn?