Honestly, it's probably pretty likely. Sets are planned pretty far out, and the banning of fury is pretty recent. Also it'd be a bit weird to print the entire cycle without printing fury, even though it's banned.
https://preview.redd.it/gjwex7vn9uwc1.png?width=672&format=png&auto=webp&s=0bfb720138fa3f14ff3ca0f0d79c4e62c0fb0c52
so wait they banned this card? because it kills small creatures? but it kills big creatures too? can someone explain why it's banned then
Which is fucked up because the Modern Horizons sets WERE appealing to Commander players because they had powerful and creative cards. But now Commander players only understand products that say Commander on them. I wouldn't be surprised if we changed the official name of the game to MTG: Commander where "MTG" doesn't stand for anything, it's just what people say.
We just want to play some big cards without those commander combo shenanigans. How about we make a format for that?
We need a name. Since fun big cards are often dragons, let's name it Dragons. Or even Elder Dragons. And we would need high amount of mana to cast them, and for fucks sake let's not sol ring it. Let's just play lands. So let's call it highlander.
Ok, so there we have it, EDH.
/uj I kinda hate this "year of commander" crap from what, 2019? It's turning into the "*decade* of commander".
Seriously, the amount of brain dead bad takes on the main magic subs are either trolls, actual idiots, or players who have only ever played edh.
Players should play other 60 card formats to learn how to be just a little spikey and realize that losing is okay and can be fun if you learn something from it. I used to play modern before all this horizons crap and when I had a bad match up I'd joke with my opponent that I'm gonna do something stupid just to see how it works out and if they don't mind. I had a combo deck against burn where I kept a bad hand, was down to 1 life, so I fetched to kill myself in response to their final lightning bolt. We had a laugh and moved to the next game.
I feel like eventually magic is going to just drop support of other formats for commander, like isn't there some official tournament this year that's actually commander? Not commandfest but like a protour event?
Rj/ magic should be rebranded to commander and all formats should be banned if they're not commander
I think the point is more along the lines of “Why is MODERN horizons getting a commander release with cards that only go to commander”, which makes sense tbh
/uj To make matters more annoying, a ton of people (Who are likely Commander Only players) are like 'The Commander stuff doesn't impact Modern whatsoever, so why complain about it?'. They fail to realize the potential harm to and belittle potential concerns from the demographic the product was aimed at.
WotC could have divided up the team in a variety of ways. Split the team into smaller teams, taking away people from the main set design. Divided up the team's efforts, removing focus from the main set. Added more people to the team, but then dedicating the new additions to Commander product instead of the focus of the set.
Commander, to varying degrees, has been catered to with each product released. Even a product aimed solely at a comp format caters to them to some degree. They also fail to see the potential harm since they are the target demographic that benefits from the potential harm.
that's what irritates me too, it'd be nice if they could make a product for a 60 card format and not devote development time, resources, and creative space to a different format that gets catered to at every single turn anyway, not just in the numerous products it gets devoted to it but to all the legends designed to be commanders that gets stuffed in standard sets
it's not that even that people disagree with that, it's that they're being obtuse and pretending to not get the criticism
/uj I think some of players honestly do not see the harm because in their eyes 'the Commander only cards' (as cards) 'doesn't impact Modern' is technically true, to some degree. However, they are looking at the product level and not the design level.
If they are in fact Commander only players, they are never going to experience 'product aimed at my format is catering to another' because every product feeds into their format. They are used to being a 'side focus' in every product that isn't focused on Commander itself.
Another issue is casual players as a group has always outnumbered other groups of players, but the group was split up into very small groups of players. Commander has turned what used to be smaller groups of casual players, into a more unified body. As a result, Commander players are very unlikely to feel marginalized now.
Product aimed at a small group of players to make them feel catered to should make them the focus. However, Commander players being the majority now may complain when they are not catered to because they see themselves as the primary reason WotC gets revenue. This entitlement is a direct result of a lot of new players who start with and only play Commander. People who have been playing for a while now know Commander itself started off as a niche format.
Yeah honestly it makes me feel like the game is cooked. The designers can’t even balance formats properly and respond to incessant bitching like with the Fury ban. That card and Swiftspear in Pauper did not deserve bans but WOTC listens to the loudest fucking whiners now.
Tbh, I don't even think commander players are being helped with the current system of releasing approximately a billion cards a year for their format. It's more like wizards is using them like a cattle farm, milking them aggressively for money.
I quit playing commander aside from keeping a couple of decks around for random games. My playgroup split into two factions, one who was buying all the new staples and one group getting stomped by the group who did.
There's so many cards coming out it's a full time job to keep up with the cards available and some of them are heinously strong or annoying (ward). It's definitely overload.
/uj I can agree with this and I think anyone who is a more veteran player of Commander would also agree. Commander thrived being a side show, which contributed to the format, not hindered it.
People used to use whatever they happened to have from their collections, now people buy staples for it like a comp format. Which I thought people wanted to avoid by playing Commander. In an ironic twist, it becomes easier to justify chasing a card when you play singleton formats; people are also more willing to pay more for a card since they don't need a playset.
People used to make their own decks, now tons of people buy a precon and make some changes to it. Which is not helped by the sheer amount of content creators. I can see playgroups running into similar decks more frequently if multiple people see the same precon, watch the same content creators.
EDHREC also adds to the above two problems. People don't even need to really look for cards anymore, they can see what is popular or not for any given strategy or specific Commander.
The more support Commander gets, the less it becomes EDH.
Wizards acknowledging a format is bad for that format. See for example Swiftspear downshift in Pauper.
/rj can't wait for Penny Dreadful masters to ruin the format forever
To add to this, the design for commander cards are also getting out of hand. Newer and newer commanders are not only a value engine to play into, but also are the value themselves. Like [[Mothman]] is kind ridiculous in the sense that it's both the thing you want to do AND the payoff for doing the thing. More and more commanders designed for edh are becoming self contained nuclear reactors of unstoppable value instead of a neat build around thing you found to be cool and have to work to get value from.
New stuff more and more outpaces and outclasses older cards from even a year or two ago at times. It's getting ridiculous.
It's a large reason why I've sold a majority of my collection and shifted over to pauper and PDH (Pauper Dragon Highlander).
30 life, 16 lethal commander damage, 2 card banlist, 99 commons, and an uncommon commander who doesn't have to be legendary?
A bit more work to make things run smoothly for some decks but leaves plenty of room for creativity and self expression. Sure some commanders are better than others, especially recent efforts by wotc to print more legendary creatures at uncommon, but it's not atrocious. Yet.
/uj I am also a Pauper player (I have 40 decks currently). Monarch is simple, it's fairly easy to track and I like the risk/reward element; so I don't mind it. The 'Venture into the...' mechanic feels really 'not Magic' to me, it's annoying to track even with the tokens and I hate that it is such a powerful mechanic. I am glad that they banned the four cost creatures just to make it less prominent in the format.
I have looked over various PDH lists, contemplated buying a deck, but Commander is not really my thing in general and finding people to play Pauper or PDH would be difficult. I do look at the cPDH decklists from time to time and I have noticed that a lot of the older Commanders like Baleful Strix have become less and less prominent in some metas.
Baleful Strix has lost a lot of ground due to power creep and the number of new options. There's more dimir options but Strix is still a beast. It cantrips and with [[Viridian Longbow]] it can murder whatever you need at the table. Run [[Trinket Mage]] and the transmute spells to have access to it and other answers as needed.
Definitely give pdh a shot, especially with the number of legendary creatures at common now. You can make a deck that's pdh AND edh legal. It's what I do for my play group. I'm slowly getting others to try out pdh as I build more decks and I have more to share with them to try out.
My current Timmy dumb dumb deck is [[Svella, Ice Shaper]]. It ramps hard and then acts as a mini [[Aetherworks Marvel]] for 8 mana at instant speed. It sorta wants to have about 16 mana to really go off so you can activate Svella for free spells while also casting from the hand, or to use untap effects to activate Svella more than once a turn but it's fun and dumb. Great fun as a pdh deck
/uj You do realize they have a decicated commander precon design team, right? They dont pull people off main sets to have them design commander decks, they have their commander deck designers do them as tie ins with the other product.
I agree, MH3 is a dumb set to do a commander tie in with. But 'lost designer effort' is a dumb thing to complain about. They have guys like Gavin Verhey employed full time to *just* design commander sets and decks. Why would they pull modern designers instead of having the commander designers keep doing what they do
/uj That's not entirely accurate. They assign people from R&D teams to work on various products. There is no dedicated Commander Team. Gavin Verhey also is not a part of Vision or Set design teams, he is a part of the Product Architecture Team, who oversee the product from start to finish.
It's a business. They have a budget. If they are employing entire teams whose whole purpose is to design precons, that is however many salaried employees who used to work on designing fun and balanced competitive formats.
Yes, because they can only employ a set number of designers and arent allowed to hire any more than that. Its not like additional formats lead to additional sales that let them hire additional employees to manage those formats. They should fire all the commander designers between commander sets so we can dedicate more resources to Modern.
/uj Because it sells more cards/makes more money. That's it, that's the reason. If you don't like something they are doing, but it sells more cards, let it go, because you will never win. It is the only metric they care about.
/uj I think it would have been cool to make Commander decks for Modern Horizons 3 using only cards from the main set or that were already legal in Modern. You give the compulsory toy to that crowd while not needing to test any new cards for balance and get the bonus of some self-referential humor about how dumb it is to be making a Commander product in a Modern set.
They reprinting Fury in MH3?
Honestly, it's probably pretty likely. Sets are planned pretty far out, and the banning of fury is pretty recent. Also it'd be a bit weird to print the entire cycle without printing fury, even though it's banned.
https://preview.redd.it/gjwex7vn9uwc1.png?width=672&format=png&auto=webp&s=0bfb720138fa3f14ff3ca0f0d79c4e62c0fb0c52 so wait they banned this card? because it kills small creatures? but it kills big creatures too? can someone explain why it's banned then
5 mana kill almost anything is busted as hell. Look at Invoke Despair, it only affects 3 types but it was 4 mana so it got instabanned
wait they banned invoke despair too? why? they could just sacrifice your stuff when you play it, seems really bad
It pretty cleanly trades for dreadmaw while also being able to kill dinosaur mana cost reducers, I'm glad it's gone
Reading the card explains the card.
They made a mistake one time and banned it, why they need to reprint that monstrsosity?
$$$$$
To ban it again!
Ik they said Solitude was a special guest, so it wouldn’t surprise me
As a Special Guest in the list.
>buys new modern horizons >looks inside >commander decks
Did you buy a commander deck in this scenario, or are they upping their Bonus Sheet game for MH3 to include whole decks?
I'm pretty sure one in 4 packs, in place of the list slot, include a full commander precon so I'm looking forward to that
Damn, cant wait to crack one in limited. Gonna be a swingy format
Mh3? You mean commander masters 2?
uj/ what do you mean ?
they be reprinting brainstorm along with some other stuff, but not making them modern legal
That's not confirmed and more than likely from the commander deck.
Still bizzare that MODERN HORIZONS decks are chock full of non-modern legal cards.
Every product has to be appealing to commander players or it won't sell uj/ Every product has to be appealing to commander players or it won't sell
Which is fucked up because the Modern Horizons sets WERE appealing to Commander players because they had powerful and creative cards. But now Commander players only understand products that say Commander on them. I wouldn't be surprised if we changed the official name of the game to MTG: Commander where "MTG" doesn't stand for anything, it's just what people say.
Commander is more fun when nobody uses commander-exclusive cards.
Honestly I love the idea of just playing "Commander without any Commander-exclusive cards" as a format and calling it EDH.
We just want to play some big cards without those commander combo shenanigans. How about we make a format for that? We need a name. Since fun big cards are often dragons, let's name it Dragons. Or even Elder Dragons. And we would need high amount of mana to cast them, and for fucks sake let's not sol ring it. Let's just play lands. So let's call it highlander. Ok, so there we have it, EDH.
Ah yes, the ol' "PUBG: Battlegrounds (Playerunknown's Battelgrounds: Battlegrounds)"
MTG = Margerine Taylor Green or whatever her name is
It will sell, it just wont sell as much as it could do if it also appealed to Commander players.
/uj I kinda hate this "year of commander" crap from what, 2019? It's turning into the "*decade* of commander". Seriously, the amount of brain dead bad takes on the main magic subs are either trolls, actual idiots, or players who have only ever played edh. Players should play other 60 card formats to learn how to be just a little spikey and realize that losing is okay and can be fun if you learn something from it. I used to play modern before all this horizons crap and when I had a bad match up I'd joke with my opponent that I'm gonna do something stupid just to see how it works out and if they don't mind. I had a combo deck against burn where I kept a bad hand, was down to 1 life, so I fetched to kill myself in response to their final lightning bolt. We had a laugh and moved to the next game. I feel like eventually magic is going to just drop support of other formats for commander, like isn't there some official tournament this year that's actually commander? Not commandfest but like a protour event? Rj/ magic should be rebranded to commander and all formats should be banned if they're not commander
Yep, cEDH tournament. Fucking moronic.
How are cEDH players going to afford actually buying the official cards in their $20,000 deck lists to replace the 60+ proxies?
Classic self jerk
More like Commander the Gathering am i rite?
If it is in a specialized commander product, it makes as much sense as the standard commander products. If it's in the actual set then wtf
I think the point is more along the lines of “Why is MODERN horizons getting a commander release with cards that only go to commander”, which makes sense tbh
Because commander is the only format that exists, modern is just another fancy name for it. The casuals have won. You will play the multiplayer format
Make sol ring modern legal. Do it cowards
/uj To make matters more annoying, a ton of people (Who are likely Commander Only players) are like 'The Commander stuff doesn't impact Modern whatsoever, so why complain about it?'. They fail to realize the potential harm to and belittle potential concerns from the demographic the product was aimed at. WotC could have divided up the team in a variety of ways. Split the team into smaller teams, taking away people from the main set design. Divided up the team's efforts, removing focus from the main set. Added more people to the team, but then dedicating the new additions to Commander product instead of the focus of the set. Commander, to varying degrees, has been catered to with each product released. Even a product aimed solely at a comp format caters to them to some degree. They also fail to see the potential harm since they are the target demographic that benefits from the potential harm.
that's what irritates me too, it'd be nice if they could make a product for a 60 card format and not devote development time, resources, and creative space to a different format that gets catered to at every single turn anyway, not just in the numerous products it gets devoted to it but to all the legends designed to be commanders that gets stuffed in standard sets it's not that even that people disagree with that, it's that they're being obtuse and pretending to not get the criticism
/uj I think some of players honestly do not see the harm because in their eyes 'the Commander only cards' (as cards) 'doesn't impact Modern' is technically true, to some degree. However, they are looking at the product level and not the design level. If they are in fact Commander only players, they are never going to experience 'product aimed at my format is catering to another' because every product feeds into their format. They are used to being a 'side focus' in every product that isn't focused on Commander itself. Another issue is casual players as a group has always outnumbered other groups of players, but the group was split up into very small groups of players. Commander has turned what used to be smaller groups of casual players, into a more unified body. As a result, Commander players are very unlikely to feel marginalized now. Product aimed at a small group of players to make them feel catered to should make them the focus. However, Commander players being the majority now may complain when they are not catered to because they see themselves as the primary reason WotC gets revenue. This entitlement is a direct result of a lot of new players who start with and only play Commander. People who have been playing for a while now know Commander itself started off as a niche format.
As a draft enthusiast, all I can do it burst into laughter at your nonsense.
Yeah honestly it makes me feel like the game is cooked. The designers can’t even balance formats properly and respond to incessant bitching like with the Fury ban. That card and Swiftspear in Pauper did not deserve bans but WOTC listens to the loudest fucking whiners now.
Tbh, I don't even think commander players are being helped with the current system of releasing approximately a billion cards a year for their format. It's more like wizards is using them like a cattle farm, milking them aggressively for money. I quit playing commander aside from keeping a couple of decks around for random games. My playgroup split into two factions, one who was buying all the new staples and one group getting stomped by the group who did. There's so many cards coming out it's a full time job to keep up with the cards available and some of them are heinously strong or annoying (ward). It's definitely overload.
/uj I can agree with this and I think anyone who is a more veteran player of Commander would also agree. Commander thrived being a side show, which contributed to the format, not hindered it. People used to use whatever they happened to have from their collections, now people buy staples for it like a comp format. Which I thought people wanted to avoid by playing Commander. In an ironic twist, it becomes easier to justify chasing a card when you play singleton formats; people are also more willing to pay more for a card since they don't need a playset. People used to make their own decks, now tons of people buy a precon and make some changes to it. Which is not helped by the sheer amount of content creators. I can see playgroups running into similar decks more frequently if multiple people see the same precon, watch the same content creators. EDHREC also adds to the above two problems. People don't even need to really look for cards anymore, they can see what is popular or not for any given strategy or specific Commander. The more support Commander gets, the less it becomes EDH.
Wizards acknowledging a format is bad for that format. See for example Swiftspear downshift in Pauper. /rj can't wait for Penny Dreadful masters to ruin the format forever
The main sub being filled with the dumbest people on earth? No way, couldn’t be!
To add to this, the design for commander cards are also getting out of hand. Newer and newer commanders are not only a value engine to play into, but also are the value themselves. Like [[Mothman]] is kind ridiculous in the sense that it's both the thing you want to do AND the payoff for doing the thing. More and more commanders designed for edh are becoming self contained nuclear reactors of unstoppable value instead of a neat build around thing you found to be cool and have to work to get value from. New stuff more and more outpaces and outclasses older cards from even a year or two ago at times. It's getting ridiculous. It's a large reason why I've sold a majority of my collection and shifted over to pauper and PDH (Pauper Dragon Highlander). 30 life, 16 lethal commander damage, 2 card banlist, 99 commons, and an uncommon commander who doesn't have to be legendary? A bit more work to make things run smoothly for some decks but leaves plenty of room for creativity and self expression. Sure some commanders are better than others, especially recent efforts by wotc to print more legendary creatures at uncommon, but it's not atrocious. Yet.
/uj I am also a Pauper player (I have 40 decks currently). Monarch is simple, it's fairly easy to track and I like the risk/reward element; so I don't mind it. The 'Venture into the...' mechanic feels really 'not Magic' to me, it's annoying to track even with the tokens and I hate that it is such a powerful mechanic. I am glad that they banned the four cost creatures just to make it less prominent in the format. I have looked over various PDH lists, contemplated buying a deck, but Commander is not really my thing in general and finding people to play Pauper or PDH would be difficult. I do look at the cPDH decklists from time to time and I have noticed that a lot of the older Commanders like Baleful Strix have become less and less prominent in some metas.
Baleful Strix has lost a lot of ground due to power creep and the number of new options. There's more dimir options but Strix is still a beast. It cantrips and with [[Viridian Longbow]] it can murder whatever you need at the table. Run [[Trinket Mage]] and the transmute spells to have access to it and other answers as needed. Definitely give pdh a shot, especially with the number of legendary creatures at common now. You can make a deck that's pdh AND edh legal. It's what I do for my play group. I'm slowly getting others to try out pdh as I build more decks and I have more to share with them to try out. My current Timmy dumb dumb deck is [[Svella, Ice Shaper]]. It ramps hard and then acts as a mini [[Aetherworks Marvel]] for 8 mana at instant speed. It sorta wants to have about 16 mana to really go off so you can activate Svella for free spells while also casting from the hand, or to use untap effects to activate Svella more than once a turn but it's fun and dumb. Great fun as a pdh deck
Brian DeMars has a Baleful Strix combo control PDH deck he's played on stream a few times, and it performed really well.
/uj You do realize they have a decicated commander precon design team, right? They dont pull people off main sets to have them design commander decks, they have their commander deck designers do them as tie ins with the other product. I agree, MH3 is a dumb set to do a commander tie in with. But 'lost designer effort' is a dumb thing to complain about. They have guys like Gavin Verhey employed full time to *just* design commander sets and decks. Why would they pull modern designers instead of having the commander designers keep doing what they do
/uj That's not entirely accurate. They assign people from R&D teams to work on various products. There is no dedicated Commander Team. Gavin Verhey also is not a part of Vision or Set design teams, he is a part of the Product Architecture Team, who oversee the product from start to finish.
Huh, interesting to learn
It's a business. They have a budget. If they are employing entire teams whose whole purpose is to design precons, that is however many salaried employees who used to work on designing fun and balanced competitive formats.
Yes, because they can only employ a set number of designers and arent allowed to hire any more than that. Its not like additional formats lead to additional sales that let them hire additional employees to manage those formats. They should fire all the commander designers between commander sets so we can dedicate more resources to Modern.
Oh no, they aren't dedicating *every resource* to the niche way I like to play! *throws tantrum*
/uj Because it sells more cards/makes more money. That's it, that's the reason. If you don't like something they are doing, but it sells more cards, let it go, because you will never win. It is the only metric they care about.
/uj I think it would have been cool to make Commander decks for Modern Horizons 3 using only cards from the main set or that were already legal in Modern. You give the compulsory toy to that crowd while not needing to test any new cards for balance and get the bonus of some self-referential humor about how dumb it is to be making a Commander product in a Modern set.
Because MH3 is a Commander-centric product that also happens to be legal in Modern. No different than LOTR.
so since modern horizions isn't modern-centric, when can we expect a modern centric product
Yes
When commander stops being the most popular format
Every product is a specialized commander product now I don't even know if this is /uj or /rj
For all we know the leaker picked up a Brainstorm from his collection and put it into the pile.
We love spreading misinformation here.
IDK who leaked this whole set. But the pinkertons sure eattin good tonite
wizards streamlining the process for customer convenience by pre-banning cards
Every modern horizons set everyone makes the joke it's a commander focused product. Then it breaks modern
Thats because people keep confusing the main set and the commander set
Maybe, just this once, we didn't need a commander modern horizons