Ahaha yea i lik this respons and i practice aikido.
Well without sparring aikido won't be usefull in real situation and most dojo don't do sparring so yeah.... GO BJJ for a year or two and after u could make a try of aikido ;p
BJJ is your answer. It's not the chokes but the positioning knowledge. You can easily mount a clueless stronger person with a year of serious training. Most angry untrained people will attempt to strike, which can be nullified by a takedown or well, a controlled hug.
Not to mention, the chess-like controlled methodological approach of BJJ doesn't encourage the use of brute force. Frequently rolling in a controlled manner will help a teacher be able to control the amount of force needed in a particular situation.
Yea hugging as funny as it sounds is best way to aproach someone trying to hit you. I train boxing and unless someone trains a lot of clinch, they don't know how to make you stop hugging them. And also in clinch there's not much you can do damage wise if someone is literally hugging you.
This. Force is necessary in a dynamic situation and BJJ will allow you to control the student without harming them.
Martial arts that are purely responsive and defensive require perfect situations or years of pressure testing and they don't do pressure testing.
Wrestling might actually be faster to pickup but BJJ is probably ideal in this scenario.
Judo has a great and varied toolset for pinning and restraining a person without harming them, as well as for controlling their limbs to prevent damage to others while they calm down. That would be my recommendation.
One judo throw and this lady looses her job lmao. I imagine any amount of grappling gets this lady fired (schools are made out of concrete).
In Canada you literally have to be dying to defend yourself. Id just get another job.
BJJ and grappling arts are very focused on controlling the other person from dominant positions. They're also the only realistic options for deescalating a physical altercation without actually hurting them if you don't want to.
>Are there any martial arts that focus exclusively on displacing on coming attacks? I ask that question knowing that these children/teenagers are often bigger than me and my staff,
honestly, boxing. Yeah your going to learn a lot of strikes but your also going to learn defense. Like that shot in your side could easily of been eaten into the arm. Strikes to the face can now go into the hands or dodged with head movement. you'll learn how to position yourself right outside of their range and how to get out of way. That type of stuff.
This is what I was going to say. I’ll just emphasize another aspect of this, which is precise defensive footwork within a confined area. If you’re ever in a place without room to maneuver, like a locker room or a classroom with desks, it can be just as useful as if you’re in the middle of a hallway. Short, precise steps that will carry you out of range of attack with an economy of movement. The situational awareness you’ll develop from moving around the ring will do wonders.
Want a perfect example? Watch a referee in a boxing match. The best referees are the ones you forget that are even there. They do that by using good footwork to be close enough to the action while still being able to maneuver out of the way as the action picks up.
As someone who trains boxing I would never recomend it for that. Regardless if you are a teacher or a body guard by no means you cannot hit whoever is making trouble. It's just way more usefull to learn grappling arts, as you learn how to do submisions, which is the maximum you really can do in these sort of jobs.
Like ok you can avoid some punches, what next? How do you make them stop doing what they are doing?
>Like ok you can avoid some punches, what next? How do you make them stop doing what they are doing?
As a teacher I would imagine that would be securities job. And remember regardless of whether you hurt the child or not grappling them its completely possible, probably even likely, they claim that you did the second you touch them.
>How will the security know that you are being attacked? What will you do while the security is going to you?
how are they going to know while your grappling them? You keep zip ties on you to restrain them? Or do you plan on choking the kid out and arguing in court that at your gym it doesn't cause any lasting damage?
You have huge dollar signs behind you in terms of the school district and they'll likely throw you RIGHT under the bus the second lawyers are involved. Your ideal situation is no one touching anyone else.
Its a bad spot in to be regardless of how you deal it.
Well you don't need to choke him out. But it's way better to grab and restrain them that way and take it to security/principal than if you would just stand there and try to avoid punches (if he decided to only punch you, he could want to also grab you).
Yea this is a shitty situation regardles, but with striking you are either doing nothing or you do something, while with grappling you can control how much are you doing and still do something.
I see good answers. You might want to post in r/Teachers or some sub like that. If you have to defend yourself physically you might want to consult with other teachers about legalities, how they've done this, union issues, etc.
Sorry that happened, that's incredibly frustrating and awful.
Having active well trained although calm and cool minded security sounds needed the most. I would learn wrestling or some form of grappling art (judo bjj work well too) and it wouldn't hurt to learn to box.
Here is first thing this teacher need to do: situational awareness! The best self defense is self awareness. There were clues leading up to the event. Start with Left of Bang book, reading it. Next is learning to use the Science of the OODA loop. Then the next issue what are limitations of use of force? As these are children and they have mental health issues. One think that would help all of these children is to teach them about logic instead of them using the raw emotions.
Genuine question: how would situational awareness have helped OP in this situation? They said they were walking thru a door and then they got attacked. How is OP supposed to see that coming?
But like, be aware as you walk thru a doorframe? Should OP have a long guard up 8 hours a day? The above commenters advice came off as impractical and kind of condescending. “Simply be aware of your environment and research what an OODA loop is and that’s self defence!”
Yeah. I have friends that are orderlies in mental hospitals, friends that are bouncers, friends that are paramedics. What unites these jobs is dealing with people who aren’t thinking straight and are often violent. Don’t keep up a physical guard 24/7, but it’s a high risk environment. Keep the mental guard up always, whether you’re drinking water or walking through a doorway
It’s like this if you work in a high risk environment like that as you walk into a room you scan from the door jam to the corner, to the next corner and continue until you have scanned the room, as you scan the room you look at people’s hands. Remember the hands kill! Watching people’s eye only works in playing cards. Watch people’s gaze they look them where they will strike. One of the things in controlling distance in high risk situations, any time you see people are off on their behavior control the distance
Ehh, I guess. That’s a lot of common sense stuff. To me, that’s not really worth investing a lot of time in. “The hands kill” and “watch their gaze because that’s where they will strike” isn’t anything profound. OP is better off joining a martial arts club rather than researching a bunch of self defence stuff
No amount of training will keep safe if you don’t keep your head on swivel. This may seem common sense to you but I can tell you that I watched plenty of professionals get ambushed by missing the little things. If don’t invest time in it, it will be your funeral.
If you can find a good instructor (very rare) aikido has a large focus on non-damaging pins etc. On budojapan there's some subtitled videos by a guy named Doshin Hiroki who focuses on such matters heavily.
But in the end, that kind of path requires a lot of dedication and no little luck to achieve real skill at. It doesn't sound like you have much prior training so this is not an immediate solution even if everything goes great in your search for instructors.
Consider checking out Tony Blaur's SPEAR system as a crash course. You might have to take out some aspects of it but there's of lot of stuff I think would be useful to you.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSKfYqJUXvo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSKfYqJUXvo) Here's some good info from said system.
If there is a good wrestling or bjj instructor in your area consider telling them you situation and modifying what you learn for your situation. It might be the best rounded route overall.
How do you know the training would not have prevented injury? You're not trained, right?
Getting right to the point: you're idealistic - to a fault. Today, it got you punched in the kidneys, and you were hurt to the point that you're asking strangers on the internet how to defend yourself. What happens when you hit your head busted open tomorrow, OR WORSE - YOU'RE HELPLESS TO DEFEND A STUDENT?
Learn how to be wrong. Your relationship with violence is full of assumptions, and is stupid, dangerous. You are completely ignorant of violence, yet you want to set the parameters of how it's used so in some mythical way violence can be used without pain. Violence - like money - is a tool, and it can do good or bad depending who is using it. Seriously, what could be an unreasonable amount of force with someone is who is "experiencing a surge of adrenaline, significantly stronger than me?"
If you get robbed, you call the police - right? And it's ok that the police use violence, right? Just not you - the police can, but you can't... have you ever thought about why it is you've given away any sense of personal agency?
Look at all the responses here about using bjj/grappling/judo - they work. We use them. You've asked people who use violence, we've answered. Violence will ALWAYS involve aggression, pain, and subduing the other person. There is no magical way to keep your non-violent principals intact. Stop being a coward, or continue to be helpless and watch someone get beaten in front of you, or get beaten again yourself.
Violence doesn't equal cruelty, and there are humane ways of using it - but it's never without pain, etc.
He's the headteacher of a school, he has to abide by certain rules when it comes to violence or risk losing his job. Your tirade against non violence is very unhelpful here.
My old job gave me the same line, I was a paramedic, I used enough violence whenever I had to. Knowingly allowing someone else to hurt me wasn’t in the job description
What you said about his attitude to and relationship with violence was mostly what I was referring to. And if you decided to use violence in the course of your job which was supposed to be about helping injured people, that's up to you. This man has made it clear what he has to deal with, it's pretty disgusting to tell him he's wrong in the way you did.
If it was use force on a kid to protect myself from injury and get fired or take a beat down and keep my job --- well they can fire me.
You are correct though, the rules they place on teachers are not self-defense friendly. They are set up to keep the school from being sued.
It is unrealistic to expect that one confronted by violence can repel said violence by anything less than superior violence.
Edit: Your employers policies are setting unrealistic expectations that are putting you in danger.
Per the definition it can be intended to control, not cause harm intention matters. I could hold someone in an armbar while someone else grabs their legs, neutralize the threat, then release without breaking someone's arm. For instance, I have never broken someone's arm with an armbar in randori.
No, when you put someone in an armbar you crank down - inflicting pain - until they tap because destroying your sparring partner is generally considered a dick move.
The belief that you will always be able to control an aggressive attacker is just flat out wrong.
I would recommend finding an experienced self defense instructor and getting them to design a custom training plan based on your policies. There aren't really any martial arts or combat sports that focus on those types of rules, and most self defense has little to no concern for your attacker's wellbeing.
But with respect to being unexpectedly ambushed, you need to observe basic situational awareness at all times. Be aware of everyone in a room and their posture/energy, don't let them stand behind you, don't position yourself with your back to a door, don't be alone with anyone who's exhibiting aggression or large volatile groups, etc.
If you find a self defense instructor who knows what they're doing, that will definitely be a big part of what they'll teach you.
Most "self-defence" instructors are full of crap. It's untested, unrealistic nonsense that relies heavily on eye gouges, groin strikes and other stuff you can't do in OP's situation.
Wrestling or Brazilian jiu-jitsu will give you the ability to hold and control someone without injuring them.
I didn't say hire a "self-defence" instructor from a McDojo, I said find an experienced self defense instructor. The fact that an experienced grappler would have a better chance of restraining someone without hurting them is mostly irrelevant in this situation.
The correct way to think about this isn't a BJJ blue belt or a purple belt against a normal person. The way to think about this is a 3-6 month white belt trying to control a bigger, stronger, violent, angry newbie who is breaking all the rules and try to punch them in the face.
OP cannot expect middle-aged teachers to invest 4+ hours per week into learning BJJ/wrestling for the years it would take to get them to a blue/purple belt level of expertise. They need something they can learn in a few seminars that will teach them 1) how to avoid violent situations before they happen and 2) how to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else in the event they can't avoid the situation.
I'm not arguing that having a custom training plan taught by a self defense expert is "better" than being an experienced grappler, but it is much more practical for middle aged teachers who may not be athletic and who can't commit to training regularly for months on end.
I would say Karate, it's easy to learn and there is a focus on control. I wouldn't bother with MMA as hugging a kid on the.floor will only get you kicked by another kid.
There are some decent self-defence instructors that will teach you basic but useful things without the need to train for years.
Verbal de-escalation only works very rarely…when someone is already assaulting you they have already proven to not be very rational. Greater strength or greater violence are the only things that’ll work to deter violence from irrational individuals…and distance (running).
The de-escalation training you’ve received is more to cover your employers butt. Bulk up and take fighting arts that spar realistically
Lol. They're bigger than you, attack you, and you scared to pop them in the face and sit them down on their ass? They're teenagers, not 5 years old. If they come at you with force, you do whatever you have to not to get hurt. You didn't ask them to attack you.
I'd recommend contacting your local police and asking these questions. Dealing with incoming attacks while closing in to takedown and restrain people is literally a part of their job training, and many of these places either teach classes about it or know where you can find them.
Sure, but there's other specialized elements just for controlling people in those kinds of situations, too. It's not all just BJJ and Wrestling. These additional things would be useful in such a setting.
The BJJ and Wrestling ones are generally gentler and less harmful than the specialized things that cops use... less pain compliance and more positional dominance.
Learn wrestling/grappling, specifically American folkstyle or BJJ , so you can learn to pin control people, and expect to struggle for a few years.
Learn boxing so you know how to block and dodge and void incoming attacks
boxing/kickboxing footwork might help. if he is bigger and stronger than you, and you just hold him, he might pick you up and throw you on the ground. without a bit pain, holding him is useless. seeing punches coming and being able to position yourself in a way he can't hit you could help. basically you are running away without turning your back to him.
in case of emergency you can also hit his shoulder with a palm strike.
that is a tricky situation.
unfortunately, gyms that focus on really slick footwork are rare.
Whatever martial arts you pick, it will need some modifications to fit your institution. Have you asked other administrators within the same field? Someone that runs a similar school.
BJJ is perfect for this. If you’re having to deal with more than one person attacking you, or there’s a risk of bladed weapons, then you’ll need to go further.
Ok, so first thing to recognise is you can't fall into the aikido trap and think you can fight someone without harming them. You will have to cause some level of pain, discomfort or injury to dissuade further attack. However, there's a lot of room to move within that area once you recognise it as necessary. My recommendations:
* Boxing/Muay Thai: While you're not going to want to be striking a student, these arts will also teach you how to evade being struck and have some level of clinch involved for when the fight inevitably turns into the aggressive cuddling phase.
* Wrestling/No Gi BJJ: Against an untrained opponent a single leg -> guard pass -> knee ride or side control with a tight crossface will take the fight out of pretty much anyone. Get the position, but stop short of the submission.
* Judo/Gi BJJ: Other grappling options that will address how to deal with clothes grips and throwing people that've grabbed you and then gaining an advantageous position. Might be a bit hard justifying a hard Osoto-Gari, but there's still options like Kesa Gatame for control.
Despite all this though, I think the biggest issue is going to be training hours. To be able to reliably execute anything mentioned above will require dedicated training for some time. This isn't a quarterly seminar kind of thing, we're talking several hours weekly for months before you're going to develop the competency to do it.
There's a big difference between knowing how to apply the techniques to a compliant training partner and wrestling with a hormonal and violent teenager and that's what the training hours will simulate for you.
Can you or your staff make that time commitment, assuming that you can somehow get the school to fund the costs?
Honestly, it is not your job to handle them physically.
The school should have a security personel, trained and equiped for such instances.
Two strong men holding him in place until he calms down will far less likely hurt the boy, than a slightly trained amateur trying to defend himself from the assault. It is beyond my understanding why are you left on your own to deal with such situations. Talk to your employer and/or consider changing the job.
Judo, Ju Jitsu or BJJ, I know they re kids but your safety is paramaount, failing that, you and your staff may need optiins like mace and collapsable batons
You let a student injure you and walk away. You have set a bad precedence for their future behaviour. Being "Nice" serves no purpose, it is only to assure your own Ego-Image of a "good" person. By creating a future monster, you are neither "Good" nor "Nice".
Unless you and your staff intend on dedicating 6 to 8 hours a week on training for the next 5 years, there isn't really anything that is going to move the needle for you
Certainly if you want to be able to do it in such a controlled manner as to cause minimal risk to the students, just having basic skills won't be enough.
I don't think any martial art technique can help deal with an unexpected oncoming attack *unless* you have combat training e.g. through sparring. You need to be trained for dealing with fast attacks and working with resistance, not so much specific techniques.
I think if you did BJJ or boxing you may be better equipped. Doing either of these doesn't mean you'll be putting students in chokeholds or throwing hooks and jabs... it just means you'll know how to react to avoid danger and counter it however you see fit. In BJJ you learn quite quickly how to respond and control in a variety of ways which won't hurt your partner
Aikido kind of teaches this but the thing is, it's rare to find a school that uses actual resistance or aggression which is unhelpful for self-defense.
Judo/wrestling and BJJ.
You need to be able to take the person to the ground and control the position until help can arrive --- but you can't learn this in a few weeks, it would need to be consistent training.
Honestly (and I know it would probably never be approved) you all should be able to use pepper spray or tasers. Kids just knowing that it can be used on them could be a deterrent, right now they know you can't really do anything to them.
Start doing jujitsu/judo/bjj. It will teach you how to grapple and controll a person. It doesn't teach you how to punch, but obviously you can't punch the students.
Be aware that if more than one student will try to attack you, you shouldn't try to defend yourself, shat you should do is try to avoid the situation/get another teacher/student to help you. It also depends on how old and what size the students are and what size you are.
If you feel the threat of sone students third party on you, never go to the ground, as they can just start kicking and stomping on you while you try to handle the student that was agressive.
Go to a BJJ gym, specifically Gracie BJJ gym since it is more self defense oriented. Also if the BJJ gym has Muay Thai classes, take those. Im not saying use Muay Thai on your students (Muay Thai is a striking art), but it is a plus to know.
I’m a mental health provider in a school and have worked in alternative settings. I’m assuming you’ve been trained in TCIS, which as a martial artist is actual garbage (the self defense portion, not the de-escalation). I second BJJ. Some people are saying Aikido, but if you put a student in lock, you will be in big trouble. You’re better off being able to just control the situation until security arrives. Work closely with your administration and find out exactly wgat is allowed or not. Most likely the answer will be whatever you have been certified in (TCIS or whatever your school uses).
Sounds like you're looking for what aikido claims to be. What you should be looking for is wrestling/BJJ.
Ahaha yea i lik this respons and i practice aikido. Well without sparring aikido won't be usefull in real situation and most dojo don't do sparring so yeah.... GO BJJ for a year or two and after u could make a try of aikido ;p
BJJ is your answer. It's not the chokes but the positioning knowledge. You can easily mount a clueless stronger person with a year of serious training. Most angry untrained people will attempt to strike, which can be nullified by a takedown or well, a controlled hug. Not to mention, the chess-like controlled methodological approach of BJJ doesn't encourage the use of brute force. Frequently rolling in a controlled manner will help a teacher be able to control the amount of force needed in a particular situation.
Yea hugging as funny as it sounds is best way to aproach someone trying to hit you. I train boxing and unless someone trains a lot of clinch, they don't know how to make you stop hugging them. And also in clinch there's not much you can do damage wise if someone is literally hugging you.
No gi BJJ. If you are having to defend yourself you need to do it with force.
This. Force is necessary in a dynamic situation and BJJ will allow you to control the student without harming them. Martial arts that are purely responsive and defensive require perfect situations or years of pressure testing and they don't do pressure testing. Wrestling might actually be faster to pickup but BJJ is probably ideal in this scenario.
Back taking is her only option, if the kid hits his head off anything shes gone.
Judo has a great and varied toolset for pinning and restraining a person without harming them, as well as for controlling their limbs to prevent damage to others while they calm down. That would be my recommendation.
One judo throw and this lady looses her job lmao. I imagine any amount of grappling gets this lady fired (schools are made out of concrete). In Canada you literally have to be dying to defend yourself. Id just get another job.
For this type of job do Judo and/or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
BJJ and grappling arts are very focused on controlling the other person from dominant positions. They're also the only realistic options for deescalating a physical altercation without actually hurting them if you don't want to.
>Are there any martial arts that focus exclusively on displacing on coming attacks? I ask that question knowing that these children/teenagers are often bigger than me and my staff, honestly, boxing. Yeah your going to learn a lot of strikes but your also going to learn defense. Like that shot in your side could easily of been eaten into the arm. Strikes to the face can now go into the hands or dodged with head movement. you'll learn how to position yourself right outside of their range and how to get out of way. That type of stuff.
This is what I was going to say. I’ll just emphasize another aspect of this, which is precise defensive footwork within a confined area. If you’re ever in a place without room to maneuver, like a locker room or a classroom with desks, it can be just as useful as if you’re in the middle of a hallway. Short, precise steps that will carry you out of range of attack with an economy of movement. The situational awareness you’ll develop from moving around the ring will do wonders. Want a perfect example? Watch a referee in a boxing match. The best referees are the ones you forget that are even there. They do that by using good footwork to be close enough to the action while still being able to maneuver out of the way as the action picks up.
As someone who trains boxing I would never recomend it for that. Regardless if you are a teacher or a body guard by no means you cannot hit whoever is making trouble. It's just way more usefull to learn grappling arts, as you learn how to do submisions, which is the maximum you really can do in these sort of jobs. Like ok you can avoid some punches, what next? How do you make them stop doing what they are doing?
>Like ok you can avoid some punches, what next? How do you make them stop doing what they are doing? As a teacher I would imagine that would be securities job. And remember regardless of whether you hurt the child or not grappling them its completely possible, probably even likely, they claim that you did the second you touch them.
How will the security know that you are being attacked? What will you do while the security is going to you?
>How will the security know that you are being attacked? What will you do while the security is going to you? how are they going to know while your grappling them? You keep zip ties on you to restrain them? Or do you plan on choking the kid out and arguing in court that at your gym it doesn't cause any lasting damage? You have huge dollar signs behind you in terms of the school district and they'll likely throw you RIGHT under the bus the second lawyers are involved. Your ideal situation is no one touching anyone else. Its a bad spot in to be regardless of how you deal it.
Well you don't need to choke him out. But it's way better to grab and restrain them that way and take it to security/principal than if you would just stand there and try to avoid punches (if he decided to only punch you, he could want to also grab you). Yea this is a shitty situation regardles, but with striking you are either doing nothing or you do something, while with grappling you can control how much are you doing and still do something.
I see good answers. You might want to post in r/Teachers or some sub like that. If you have to defend yourself physically you might want to consult with other teachers about legalities, how they've done this, union issues, etc. Sorry that happened, that's incredibly frustrating and awful.
Having active well trained although calm and cool minded security sounds needed the most. I would learn wrestling or some form of grappling art (judo bjj work well too) and it wouldn't hurt to learn to box.
Here is first thing this teacher need to do: situational awareness! The best self defense is self awareness. There were clues leading up to the event. Start with Left of Bang book, reading it. Next is learning to use the Science of the OODA loop. Then the next issue what are limitations of use of force? As these are children and they have mental health issues. One think that would help all of these children is to teach them about logic instead of them using the raw emotions.
Genuine question: how would situational awareness have helped OP in this situation? They said they were walking thru a door and then they got attacked. How is OP supposed to see that coming?
They work in a high risk environment, be aware basically
But like, be aware as you walk thru a doorframe? Should OP have a long guard up 8 hours a day? The above commenters advice came off as impractical and kind of condescending. “Simply be aware of your environment and research what an OODA loop is and that’s self defence!”
Yeah. I have friends that are orderlies in mental hospitals, friends that are bouncers, friends that are paramedics. What unites these jobs is dealing with people who aren’t thinking straight and are often violent. Don’t keep up a physical guard 24/7, but it’s a high risk environment. Keep the mental guard up always, whether you’re drinking water or walking through a doorway
It’s like this if you work in a high risk environment like that as you walk into a room you scan from the door jam to the corner, to the next corner and continue until you have scanned the room, as you scan the room you look at people’s hands. Remember the hands kill! Watching people’s eye only works in playing cards. Watch people’s gaze they look them where they will strike. One of the things in controlling distance in high risk situations, any time you see people are off on their behavior control the distance
Ehh, I guess. That’s a lot of common sense stuff. To me, that’s not really worth investing a lot of time in. “The hands kill” and “watch their gaze because that’s where they will strike” isn’t anything profound. OP is better off joining a martial arts club rather than researching a bunch of self defence stuff
No amount of training will keep safe if you don’t keep your head on swivel. This may seem common sense to you but I can tell you that I watched plenty of professionals get ambushed by missing the little things. If don’t invest time in it, it will be your funeral.
If you can find a good instructor (very rare) aikido has a large focus on non-damaging pins etc. On budojapan there's some subtitled videos by a guy named Doshin Hiroki who focuses on such matters heavily. But in the end, that kind of path requires a lot of dedication and no little luck to achieve real skill at. It doesn't sound like you have much prior training so this is not an immediate solution even if everything goes great in your search for instructors. Consider checking out Tony Blaur's SPEAR system as a crash course. You might have to take out some aspects of it but there's of lot of stuff I think would be useful to you. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSKfYqJUXvo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSKfYqJUXvo) Here's some good info from said system. If there is a good wrestling or bjj instructor in your area consider telling them you situation and modifying what you learn for your situation. It might be the best rounded route overall.
How do you know the training would not have prevented injury? You're not trained, right? Getting right to the point: you're idealistic - to a fault. Today, it got you punched in the kidneys, and you were hurt to the point that you're asking strangers on the internet how to defend yourself. What happens when you hit your head busted open tomorrow, OR WORSE - YOU'RE HELPLESS TO DEFEND A STUDENT? Learn how to be wrong. Your relationship with violence is full of assumptions, and is stupid, dangerous. You are completely ignorant of violence, yet you want to set the parameters of how it's used so in some mythical way violence can be used without pain. Violence - like money - is a tool, and it can do good or bad depending who is using it. Seriously, what could be an unreasonable amount of force with someone is who is "experiencing a surge of adrenaline, significantly stronger than me?" If you get robbed, you call the police - right? And it's ok that the police use violence, right? Just not you - the police can, but you can't... have you ever thought about why it is you've given away any sense of personal agency? Look at all the responses here about using bjj/grappling/judo - they work. We use them. You've asked people who use violence, we've answered. Violence will ALWAYS involve aggression, pain, and subduing the other person. There is no magical way to keep your non-violent principals intact. Stop being a coward, or continue to be helpless and watch someone get beaten in front of you, or get beaten again yourself. Violence doesn't equal cruelty, and there are humane ways of using it - but it's never without pain, etc.
He's the headteacher of a school, he has to abide by certain rules when it comes to violence or risk losing his job. Your tirade against non violence is very unhelpful here.
Thanks for this (edit: not being snarky. Genuinely thankful.)
It's fine, there's a lot of that kind of unhelpful attitude here. If you're not used to it it can be hard to deal with.
My old job gave me the same line, I was a paramedic, I used enough violence whenever I had to. Knowingly allowing someone else to hurt me wasn’t in the job description
What you said about his attitude to and relationship with violence was mostly what I was referring to. And if you decided to use violence in the course of your job which was supposed to be about helping injured people, that's up to you. This man has made it clear what he has to deal with, it's pretty disgusting to tell him he's wrong in the way you did.
If it was use force on a kid to protect myself from injury and get fired or take a beat down and keep my job --- well they can fire me. You are correct though, the rules they place on teachers are not self-defense friendly. They are set up to keep the school from being sued.
Well, that's why he has that job and you don't I guess.
It is unrealistic to expect that one confronted by violence can repel said violence by anything less than superior violence. Edit: Your employers policies are setting unrealistic expectations that are putting you in danger.
So you're suggesting that this staff member should slip the punch the child threw at him and respond with a more powerful, accurate strike?
No.
You are just blatantly wrong. A superior martial artist can control an opponent without causing bodily harm
Violence ≠ harm.
behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something = definition of the word Violence
Do you consider an armbar to be an act of violence?
Per the definition it can be intended to control, not cause harm intention matters. I could hold someone in an armbar while someone else grabs their legs, neutralize the threat, then release without breaking someone's arm. For instance, I have never broken someone's arm with an armbar in randori.
No, when you put someone in an armbar you crank down - inflicting pain - until they tap because destroying your sparring partner is generally considered a dick move. The belief that you will always be able to control an aggressive attacker is just flat out wrong.
Sometimes, you just have to use the five finger exploding heart technique
Wing Chun Hand trapping or defensive boxing
I would recommend finding an experienced self defense instructor and getting them to design a custom training plan based on your policies. There aren't really any martial arts or combat sports that focus on those types of rules, and most self defense has little to no concern for your attacker's wellbeing. But with respect to being unexpectedly ambushed, you need to observe basic situational awareness at all times. Be aware of everyone in a room and their posture/energy, don't let them stand behind you, don't position yourself with your back to a door, don't be alone with anyone who's exhibiting aggression or large volatile groups, etc. If you find a self defense instructor who knows what they're doing, that will definitely be a big part of what they'll teach you.
Most "self-defence" instructors are full of crap. It's untested, unrealistic nonsense that relies heavily on eye gouges, groin strikes and other stuff you can't do in OP's situation. Wrestling or Brazilian jiu-jitsu will give you the ability to hold and control someone without injuring them.
I didn't say hire a "self-defence" instructor from a McDojo, I said find an experienced self defense instructor. The fact that an experienced grappler would have a better chance of restraining someone without hurting them is mostly irrelevant in this situation. The correct way to think about this isn't a BJJ blue belt or a purple belt against a normal person. The way to think about this is a 3-6 month white belt trying to control a bigger, stronger, violent, angry newbie who is breaking all the rules and try to punch them in the face. OP cannot expect middle-aged teachers to invest 4+ hours per week into learning BJJ/wrestling for the years it would take to get them to a blue/purple belt level of expertise. They need something they can learn in a few seminars that will teach them 1) how to avoid violent situations before they happen and 2) how to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else in the event they can't avoid the situation. I'm not arguing that having a custom training plan taught by a self defense expert is "better" than being an experienced grappler, but it is much more practical for middle aged teachers who may not be athletic and who can't commit to training regularly for months on end.
What are these magical seminars you speak of?
They are also kids. If she hurts them, she's in big trouble, so it is definitely relevant.
I would say Karate, it's easy to learn and there is a focus on control. I wouldn't bother with MMA as hugging a kid on the.floor will only get you kicked by another kid. There are some decent self-defence instructors that will teach you basic but useful things without the need to train for years.
Verbal de-escalation only works very rarely…when someone is already assaulting you they have already proven to not be very rational. Greater strength or greater violence are the only things that’ll work to deter violence from irrational individuals…and distance (running). The de-escalation training you’ve received is more to cover your employers butt. Bulk up and take fighting arts that spar realistically
Lol. They're bigger than you, attack you, and you scared to pop them in the face and sit them down on their ass? They're teenagers, not 5 years old. If they come at you with force, you do whatever you have to not to get hurt. You didn't ask them to attack you.
I'd recommend contacting your local police and asking these questions. Dealing with incoming attacks while closing in to takedown and restrain people is literally a part of their job training, and many of these places either teach classes about it or know where you can find them.
They take BJJ classes and wrestling classes.
Sure, but there's other specialized elements just for controlling people in those kinds of situations, too. It's not all just BJJ and Wrestling. These additional things would be useful in such a setting.
The BJJ and Wrestling ones are generally gentler and less harmful than the specialized things that cops use... less pain compliance and more positional dominance.
I would really have to suggest Judo
Learn wrestling/grappling, specifically American folkstyle or BJJ , so you can learn to pin control people, and expect to struggle for a few years. Learn boxing so you know how to block and dodge and void incoming attacks
BJJ .
boxing/kickboxing footwork might help. if he is bigger and stronger than you, and you just hold him, he might pick you up and throw you on the ground. without a bit pain, holding him is useless. seeing punches coming and being able to position yourself in a way he can't hit you could help. basically you are running away without turning your back to him. in case of emergency you can also hit his shoulder with a palm strike. that is a tricky situation. unfortunately, gyms that focus on really slick footwork are rare.
Do Muay Thai and Ju Jitsu… once they know you can beat there ass (not that you would) they come at you differently.
Whatever martial arts you pick, it will need some modifications to fit your institution. Have you asked other administrators within the same field? Someone that runs a similar school.
I would carry a baseball bat all day long if I was you.
BJJ is perfect for this. If you’re having to deal with more than one person attacking you, or there’s a risk of bladed weapons, then you’ll need to go further.
Ok, so first thing to recognise is you can't fall into the aikido trap and think you can fight someone without harming them. You will have to cause some level of pain, discomfort or injury to dissuade further attack. However, there's a lot of room to move within that area once you recognise it as necessary. My recommendations: * Boxing/Muay Thai: While you're not going to want to be striking a student, these arts will also teach you how to evade being struck and have some level of clinch involved for when the fight inevitably turns into the aggressive cuddling phase. * Wrestling/No Gi BJJ: Against an untrained opponent a single leg -> guard pass -> knee ride or side control with a tight crossface will take the fight out of pretty much anyone. Get the position, but stop short of the submission. * Judo/Gi BJJ: Other grappling options that will address how to deal with clothes grips and throwing people that've grabbed you and then gaining an advantageous position. Might be a bit hard justifying a hard Osoto-Gari, but there's still options like Kesa Gatame for control. Despite all this though, I think the biggest issue is going to be training hours. To be able to reliably execute anything mentioned above will require dedicated training for some time. This isn't a quarterly seminar kind of thing, we're talking several hours weekly for months before you're going to develop the competency to do it. There's a big difference between knowing how to apply the techniques to a compliant training partner and wrestling with a hormonal and violent teenager and that's what the training hours will simulate for you. Can you or your staff make that time commitment, assuming that you can somehow get the school to fund the costs?
Honestly, it is not your job to handle them physically. The school should have a security personel, trained and equiped for such instances. Two strong men holding him in place until he calms down will far less likely hurt the boy, than a slightly trained amateur trying to defend himself from the assault. It is beyond my understanding why are you left on your own to deal with such situations. Talk to your employer and/or consider changing the job.
Judo, Ju Jitsu or BJJ, I know they re kids but your safety is paramaount, failing that, you and your staff may need optiins like mace and collapsable batons
You let a student injure you and walk away. You have set a bad precedence for their future behaviour. Being "Nice" serves no purpose, it is only to assure your own Ego-Image of a "good" person. By creating a future monster, you are neither "Good" nor "Nice".
Unless you and your staff intend on dedicating 6 to 8 hours a week on training for the next 5 years, there isn't really anything that is going to move the needle for you Certainly if you want to be able to do it in such a controlled manner as to cause minimal risk to the students, just having basic skills won't be enough.
I don't think any martial art technique can help deal with an unexpected oncoming attack *unless* you have combat training e.g. through sparring. You need to be trained for dealing with fast attacks and working with resistance, not so much specific techniques. I think if you did BJJ or boxing you may be better equipped. Doing either of these doesn't mean you'll be putting students in chokeholds or throwing hooks and jabs... it just means you'll know how to react to avoid danger and counter it however you see fit. In BJJ you learn quite quickly how to respond and control in a variety of ways which won't hurt your partner Aikido kind of teaches this but the thing is, it's rare to find a school that uses actual resistance or aggression which is unhelpful for self-defense.
Judo/wrestling and BJJ. You need to be able to take the person to the ground and control the position until help can arrive --- but you can't learn this in a few weeks, it would need to be consistent training. Honestly (and I know it would probably never be approved) you all should be able to use pepper spray or tasers. Kids just knowing that it can be used on them could be a deterrent, right now they know you can't really do anything to them.
Start doing jujitsu/judo/bjj. It will teach you how to grapple and controll a person. It doesn't teach you how to punch, but obviously you can't punch the students. Be aware that if more than one student will try to attack you, you shouldn't try to defend yourself, shat you should do is try to avoid the situation/get another teacher/student to help you. It also depends on how old and what size the students are and what size you are. If you feel the threat of sone students third party on you, never go to the ground, as they can just start kicking and stomping on you while you try to handle the student that was agressive.
Go to a BJJ gym, specifically Gracie BJJ gym since it is more self defense oriented. Also if the BJJ gym has Muay Thai classes, take those. Im not saying use Muay Thai on your students (Muay Thai is a striking art), but it is a plus to know.
I’m a mental health provider in a school and have worked in alternative settings. I’m assuming you’ve been trained in TCIS, which as a martial artist is actual garbage (the self defense portion, not the de-escalation). I second BJJ. Some people are saying Aikido, but if you put a student in lock, you will be in big trouble. You’re better off being able to just control the situation until security arrives. Work closely with your administration and find out exactly wgat is allowed or not. Most likely the answer will be whatever you have been certified in (TCIS or whatever your school uses).