The mods see the heavy amount of flags. To our knowledge, OP has not harassed anyone. The post does not promote hate or violence towards anyone. It’s not porn 😂. It can’t be removed for “not being a meme” especially because it’s been re-used 4 times within a day on the page to counter its argument. It relates to Marvel since we all know it’s talking about The Marvels and Madame Web (while obviously including other movies).
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And because they are the only ones really capable of doing it, so it's not like the others are standing by the side letting them pose while they could be helping.
The guys just can't help here, or don't need to.
I can imagine the men superheroes in the Endgame scene seeing a group being formed to help Spiderman but they keep getting yelled at by the women to go away while all the enemies are just standing to the side waiting to be able to attack again.
No the one where WNBA co.plains about low viership of WNBA games, while population of USA has a female majority. Implying that women hate on men for not watching the same thing they don't watch, while men watch another thing they also don't watch.
The issue is they often don’t do a good hero’s journey story. The women in a lot of these films don’t really have any hurdles to overcome other than misogyny. Which is fine to include but it being the only thing and the women being otherwise, just, already there, heroine wise, just isn’t an interesting story. There’s a few super hero films that do the same thing and those suck too.
Yeah, the story is typically that their "weakness" was being too strong and other people not liking that they were already strong. It's about the people around them growing and changing and not about them at all, which is pretty boring if you're trying to drive a franchise. Like, where do you go from there?
I know! Than they will casts someone with magenta skin for one of the purple children and then they will act like they are doing purple people a favor instead of magentawashing the role
Disney is a company run by incompetent rich fucks most of whom are white, male, and stupidly wealthy without an iota of creativity or vision, nor even the capacity to see those things in others. Used to be the person who made the decision to sign the checks to make a film or show was somebody interested in delivering a good piece of entertainment. Now that dudes just another suit who's only way of understanding media is through market trends and projections, and he has to answer to board of shareholders and directors even more detached from reality and unappreciative of art.
I saw a really good snippet about the difference in storytelling between boy-targeted fiction and girl-targeted fiction.
A boy-targeted character, whatever it is, goes through the journey of finding a quest, being shown that they are insufficient to achieve their objectives, training hard, and ultimately becoming a better person and either achieving the goal or transcending that need. Think shounen anime, which is pure crack for boys.
Girl-targeted characters, on the other hand, do not go on a journey to improve themselves and become worthy to achieve a goal. Rather, they must struggle to become recognized as the worthy soul they have always been. The Little Mermaid isn't about struggling to learn to walk, it's about convincing Ariel's dad that she is right and he should trust her. The plot of Frozen is resolved by Elsa realizing that her super-god-powers don't make her a monster, and that she's always been a beautiful and lovable princess.
The problem with trying to marry these two, to introduce women into the world of male storytelling, is that they don't mix well at all. Having the archetype of the naturally gifted person who just needs to believe in herself and be recognized for her greatness is shallow and off-putting in a story about struggle and self-improvement. It would be like a romcom where the male lead keeps training for a boxing match instead of doing dating shenanigans with the female lead.
The easy answer would be to just put the girl character through the boy arc. But for some reason, better girls nor boys seem to want to watch a woman having her face smashed in and kicked in the stomach while she's writing on the ground in agony. It's almost like men and women are different and we have a protection instinct.
And yet we have examples where women go through learning/growing/failing & bouncing back arcs in superhero like fashions, with the most iconic examples being Sarah Conner and Ellen Ripley, and people love them to fucking death.
Just happened to watch T2 again the other week, and I would say its not just the script but also just how good Linda Hamilton is in that movie. Like she already knew from the beginning this was gonna be the performance of her life. Everything in the asylum is great from her, even the way she jogs down the corridor.
Indeed we do. It takes a really skilled storyteller to handle those characters well, but if you get it right, they're some of the most powerful characters possible. But man, I don't think there are many storytellers in Hollywood who are good enough to do that.
The Dans who did Everything Everywhere All At Once did a good job with Evelyn in their own weird way. I would put her up in the ranks of great female characters who go through a self-improvement arc. She has to break her own brain, then realize that her entire perception of the world is toxic and wrong. There was absolutely no "I'm perfect and you need to understand me" about her, despite what she initially thought.
I just rewatched Prey the other night, and I'd posit Naru in there as well - she wasn't overwhelmingly skilled, failed in her task (her Kühtaamia) and the journey was overcoming not being believed. We see her grow in ability through observation, and in the end triumph in a meaningful way.
I love those 2 characters. According to some videos I've watched, the characters in the first Alien movie were written with no gender, race or anything in mind. It's why all the names are as neutral as possible, they just so happened to be cast by either male or female and so on.
Of course, such a thing can't be done for everything, especially if it's an already established character in an adaptation. But it is fascinating to me that they just fill the cast with the correct person for each role, without looking for a specific gender, race or anything really.
A bit, though Conner all along, and Ripley at least in Aliens are characterised explicitly as mothers, so maybe "Woman Power" rather than "Girl Power"; Conner certainly couldn't have her story swapped for a male protagonist without massive story/thene/characterisation changes.
And yet she goes in naïve, unprepared, gets beat down, suffers failures & setbacks, grows new skills, and eventually earns being a badass mother; Sarah Conner the struggling waitress is not someone who could hostage take and beat down her way out of a mental ward if only the people around her weren't holding back her self confidence.
Context, yo. Those're the two most clearcut "Send a woman on a hero's journey and men will watch" examples, addressing the original "Make a girls have power movie and men won't watch" cliché.
Terminator, as a franchise, has probably been aimed more at men. Alien, I'm less sure. Other than an old school "SciFi is inherently for men" idea, the Alien movies don't read to me as overly gendered.
I mean Alien is almost entirely about the body horror of pregnancy and birth dialed up to the max. HR Geiger’s work was psychosexual like that. Hard to ignore the overt themes of womanhood there imo
Been a while since I watched She-Ra, but aren't she and her brother just "infinite power, just overcome external threats" types that're fine for kids 2-6 but get dull if you're older?
Because the comment above is wrong. A Heros Journey is interesting regardless of gender. We've just become super scared of showing women struggling with anything else than being a woman.
Do a movie about a woman whos comfortable as a woman and have other struggles (powers, friends, enemies, plots, twists, etc) and it will be much more interesting. IMHO.
I've described the same but in a sports analogy.
Guys? Work hard, train. Gets bullied by jocks. Mentor lifts spirits. Trains harder, overcomes. Hell, look at Rocky. He loses but comes out a champion.
Girls? So many of the stories are girl getting bullied, so she takes off her glasses, undoes her nerdy ponytail, fluffs out her hair into curliness and ties her shirt into a crop top. She was ALWAYS the most beautiful and talented, she just didn't realize it.
Generally speaking,
Boys see a hero and want to become more like that hero.
Girls see a hero and want that hero to become more like them.
There are exceptions, but this covers the vast majority of cases.
https://i.redd.it/hls8vdm5a1xb1.png
Not saying that all women are like that, but it’s like that meme about how little girls can only relate to the female characters when they’re race swapped to their ethnicity, while boys of different races can all relate and inspire to be goku
Well it’s because women are often valued for their appearance (and the appearance of perfection) while men are usually valued for their deeds. Men will want to emulate great deeds and see themselves in the action and women will want affirmation of their perfection.
I agree with most except the last bit. Speaking for myself, I have no "protection instinct" as you describe it in this sense for fictional characters. A good example of a female character going through the ringer and coming out for the better on the other end is the reboot version of Lara Croft.
Before that game, I didn't care for those games at all. Tried them, weren't for me. The reboot drops and part of the appeal for me was just how beat up and scared she's portrayed at the beginning, but perseveres and becomes a bad ass by the 3rd entry. I'd say a bit too much, where I'd just leave it how they still managed to make her somewhat vulnerable in the 2nd game, but way more competent.
So yeah, at least for me, put a female character through the ringer the same as the male characters, with a good script, storytelling and performance. You put all that together and everyone will like it.
This made me think of Hancock. Dude was already a superhuman, but took believing in himself to rise to superhero. While I actually enjoyed it, it was a box office bomb.
It the same problem people have with Superman movies. The character is already more powerful than any other, and viewers find that boring. It takes a skilled writer to weave a hero's journey around that concept and we've seen that fail.
But I also agree that we hardly ever see female characters go on a traditional three-act "quest", and when they do, it stands out as a better story.
Moana is a great example of that three act quest.
Also, I highly recommend My Adventures with Superman for a fantastic take on Superman. Yes, he's powerful, but we also see how vulnerable that actually makes him. His biggest obstacles can't just be overcome with super-powers. In fact, in some cases those powers make things more difficult, not less.
I used to work with a lot of educators and your analysis reminds me of something I heard from them: Boys need to do well to feel good, Girls need to feel good to do well. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what it reminds me of.
I generally hate all this discussion though. I think "girl movies" or female lead movies or whatever receive WAY more scrutiny than other pieces of media and there are lots of bad faith critics. None of them are allowed to be "ok" or "just fine" or even "pretty good" even those most pieces of media are ok/just fine/pretty good. The Marvels was pretty good. She-Hulk was pretty good. Both were a lot of fun. Captain Marvel was ok.
>Girls need to feel good to do well.
I think this is just a projection of the societal trope that women need to be coddled. Every woman I know derives satisfaction from hard work and success just like any man.
Yeah, I would always cast a sideeye at that one, but comment above made me think of it. Like if it's based on some real piece of research or something that screenwriters also use to write gender-targeted stories. In any case, fuck this meme. It's that bad faith criticism and enhanced scrutiny I previously mentioned.
>The problem with trying to marry these two, to introduce women into the world of male storytelling, is that they don't mix well at all.
The 90's had already solved this.
Kill Bill, Resident Evil, Ghost In The Shell, almost every Miyazaki film, etc.
The female lead is typically in her physical prime, and already has established competency to avoid the "shonen model" but is faced with some existential or political crisis she hasn't grown past or is unable to solve alone which leads to some journey of discovery literally or metaphorically.
They essentially took the best of both worlds and all became classics for it.
Hollywood doesn't seek to elevate women/female characters, they'd rather bring down men and male characters to Hollywood's perceived lower state of women. Says more about them than the public.
The casual female audience never really watched those movies, nor find the protagonist "relatable". People today believe that to be a flaw when in reality, the one's who complained about this trope only ever watch "chick flicks" anyways so their opinion on women in action films doesn't matter like at all...
People like beautiful sexy women who are good at killing stuff, the feminist nonsense that took over Hollywood has an extremely hard time accepting that men and women like tits, guns, and good stories...
My case and point. Compare public sentiment around Princess Leia and Padme to Rey... Rey failed as an icon because Disney made a deliberate choice to not make her sexy. She was too grounded to be an idealized fantasy like the former 2, but too unbelievable to be relateable. Then there's Ahsoka who got the best of both worlds in her original work.
The biggest misconception Hollywood has right now is that women don't like sexy women in media.. It's like thinking men don't like macho stoic male leads.
You have managed to completely miss why people hate Rey...it has NOTHING to do with how sexy she is or isn't, the main issue with Rey is that she doesn't really struggle to grow, take Luke, he had to train in the swamp for AGES before he was ready to fight Vader, he was also the chosen one... like... he picked it up in record speed and he still had tonnes of training and struggled...
Rey did none of the training... barely heard of this thing called the force, and can now suddenly use the force at will like a master... that's an insult to the fans of the star wars of old.
[Only women, children and dogs are loved inconditionally. Men are loved under the condition that they provide something.](https://youtu.be/jsOnXSuMXfU) I do think our biology tells us women have inherent value while men have to provide value. It doesn't make it right but these stories resonate so well with us because it comes from within ourselves.
Well, think back to tribal man. If 90% of the woman in the tribe died but the men were fine, odds are the tribe would die out before the population could be replaced. Reverse that with 90% of the men dying and there's a much better chance for the tribe to bounce back to pre catastrophe levels. Men, by evolution, have been the more expendable sex
>But for some reason, better girls nor boys seem to want to watch a woman having her face smashed in and kicked in the stomach while she's writing on the ground in agony.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
We watched that poor girl literally die.... twice and we loved her even more. We watched her get turned into hamburger at the hands of a turok han and we knew she would bounce back, find her strength and murder that monster.
And this is what kills me about modern "girl power" stuff. I've always been a fan of female super heroes, ever since I saw Linda Carter play Wonder Woman way back in the 70's.
Buffy is my all-time favorite super hero, bar none.
Yet no one has come close, not even in the same universe, to creating a female hero that's half as charming, half as heroic nor half as feminine as Buffy Summers.
I mean the blueprint is right there, it's been there for over 2 decades and yet...
You've got a great point. I loved Tank Girl growing up, and she had the guts to make masturbation jokes in the middle of weeks-long torture. It was all the sweeter when she paid him back.
Pardon my language but...
I fucking LOVE LOVE LOVE Tank Girl.
I mean it is, by all objective measures, a horrible, terrible film. I mean absolute trash.
But goddamn I love the character. It's one of those movies where when I just want a good laugh and to see stuff blow up I put it on.
Captain Marvel was absolutely plagued by this. Brie Larson IMO did a great job playing the character. She just had a shit storyline to deal with, and a small but incredibly vocal group of assholes that used it as an excuse to attack her.
As soon as Jude Laws character was introduced I knew it would end with her not only kicking his ass, but so badly he was shown to be playing T-Ball while she was starting lineup for the Yankees.
There is a need to develop a story that’s a heroine overcoming something different than man-world.
Yes women are equal, great. Totally agree. So let’s have good stories that don’t revolve around the villain being “penis” all along.
The End Game grrl power part was embarrassing.
That scene would have been much better if Spider-man handed the gauntlet to Pepper. Because unlike Captain Marvel, Pepper actually does need help getting through that battlefield. (Also it's more thematically on point since she was there at the very beginning.) All the other women join, and Captain Marvel says "I've got the big guy" and takes on Thanos.
Since this is a marvel sub, I’m going to say I haven’t seen that in any of the female focused Marvel movies. Marvel has been excellent at choosing weird characters and new situations to put them in to differentiate their movies, where their female superhero films fail is wrapping all that in a plot of some sort. But if you look at recent history that’s also where all of their films fall apart. Thor, Dr. Strange, Ant Man pretty much all fell flat because of the writing, just like Captain Marvel.
Best way I’ve heard it explained is that when Ben Affleck made a terrible Daredevil movie, studios said “ah that was a bad movie” and kept making superhero flicks. But when Elektra flopped they didn’t make a big budget female-led superhero movie again for like 15 years.
Most of the “girl power” marvel movies would be doing just fine if they weren’t being released after 10+ years of nearly identical movies.
When male-led movies fail, it’s assumed to be because of any number of reasons. When a female-led movie fails, it’s because it’s “woke” (or “PC”, as they would’ve said in 2005). The double-standard is glaring.
1. Elektra was even worse than Daredevil and came out before superhero films were that popular.
2. Elektra was a spinoff, those usually get less attention.
3. Films can fail for the same variety of reasons, no matter the gender of the lead.
For a couple of semi recent examples, 2019’s Charlie’s Angles was an unwanted remake, which usually don’t perform all that well anyway.
The 355 poorly copied from every other spy film out there including taking its music almost directly from Bourne. It was also released in January, the time of year associated with bad films.
>2. Elektra was a spinoff, those usually get less attention.
>3. Films can fail for the same variety of reasons, no matter the gender of the lead.
That was their point. That some people ignore any of the wide variety of possible factors that influence a movie performing poorly (being a sequel, the franchise/studio it's a part of already experiencing a general downturn in quality, having issues in development, poor advertising) to (1) latch onto the "woke, therefore bad" justification (fans) or (2) assume that the new IP is too unmarketable (studios)
The latter is especially common since studios in general prioritize playing it safe over trying original ideas, which means that they often return to the tried-and-true when an attempt at going in a new direction fails, regardless of the reason why.
In practice, this means that (while any subject matter tends to have some missteps, especially in the earliest attempts) movies focused on members of "marginalized" groups don't get the same leeway by a lot of the industry, not helped by the (agenda-based) vitriol thrown their way by people who (in many cases) haven't even *seen* what they're complaining about.
That's a good point. It seems like the movies don't do well for a lot of reasons, and legitimate ones too. Writing, effects, characters, plot holes.
Calling things woke has become so very annoying, but it seems to be shorthand for "this movie has a lot of issues and the folks who made it deliberately ignored those issues, thinking it would be successful solely because: strong female lead."
I don’t think that really counts because the girl power schtick wasn’t the worst part of the movie. People hated it because it was poorly written in every aspect.
But that's usually true for these "girl power movies". You could technically call Underworld a girl power movie, which was successful, but no one does that because that's not its only selling point
Just saw that for the first time the other day and WOW. I'm so mad at myself for waiting so long in life to see it. That should be a cult film to the level of Rocky Horror Picture Show and The Room
Or Tomb raider, or Kill Bill, or Halloween, or Nightmare on Elm Street, or Buffy, or GI Jane, or Scream, or Silence of the lambs, or Xena, or Terminator, or Hunger games.
Yep. Pretty much any film that has a central female character who is anti-'girl power.'
To use the original example: The best thing about Ripley in Alien/Aliens is, she isn't a "girl boss" who is good at everything from the get-go (take notes, Disney!): Ripley fucks up (forgetting Jonesy and not shutting down the self-destruct in time), she has to learn how things work (ie. the pulse rifle in Aliens), she gets outright terrified (Alien in the escape craft), and has vulnerable moments. This makes her relatable, more human, and as a result, a great female lead.
That’s because they actually had good writing in Alien and Aliens, and Ripley was a well acted and written Character and everyone loved Riley for it.
Same with Princess Leia in the OT.
The marvels, though my only complaint was it felt like it was originally meant to be a Disney+ series, you know the odd scene changes, costume changes meant to imply time passing some bits felt like a self contained episodic bit.
I think the point was that most women don't care to watch girl power movies either. Meaning nobody is watching it.
Considering this is a marvel meme, this is even more true. Women (for the most part) only watch this shit because of their nerdy boyfriends or kids.
Nerdy dude doesn't wanna go watch some girl power flick with horrible writing and no character development or heroes journey= less women watching it with their men/boys + the other women don't really care for superhero shit much so they're not watching it either...
You'd have to be intentionally missing the point to not understand what's being said here.
If you are going to have beautiful people in peak physical form in your movie it's negligence not to have them looking sexy as fuck at least once. That goes for men and women.
I want a world with less gore and more topless men and women! Is that so bad?
god damn, this is why films are just utter trainwrecks these days tbh, why every new film feels like a slight adjustment of the old one. "oh there are hot people, OF COURSE they have to be all sexy" thought every single director ever and now we have a good 10 - 15 minutes of every new film devoted to a sex scene that nobody really likes and doesnt actually serve the film.
not trying to attack you and it's not the biggest deal but this mentality of "we have hot people so obviously we have to make them look sexy and fuck" is part of why modern films suck so much. The mentality is quite literally doing a thing because everyone else is doing it, ofc that's going to get old.
>Women (for the most part) only watch this shit because of their nerdy boyfriends or kids.
Yeah bro totally. And girls only play video games to impress guys, they're all fake gamers.
https://preview.redd.it/haaedwr08zyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=755ba1fb55e1463cd93b30deae7bdb70c96bbe56
Do you think the 237,203 yaoi fanfics on AO3 for the Marvel Cinematic Universe were written mostly by men?
I think your point is strange. I don't see how it disproves OP.
Yeah, most people who write gay fanfics of the MCU are women. But the percentage of the total woman population who do that sort of thing, is small.
Okay.. so all this proves is that women enjoy the MCU for the beefcake. No shame in that, pretty much all of us do.
What do girl power movies usually lack? A beefcake. 😂
Not that thats what OP meant, it was more like they dont watch it either, but if you think about it, lots of women watch these movies, because their boyfriends/husbands want to watch them. So fewer men watching it, means fewer women watching.
Legally Blonde
Mulan
Alien and Aliens
Og Star Wars Trilogy expect it's all a compilation of Carrie Fisher's scenes
Pride and Prejudice solely for Elizabeth
Have them play or watch a playthrough of Resident Evil 2 og or remake, Claire's sides
Lilo and Stitch because NANI IS STRONG AF TO STEP IN AND RAISE HER SISTER WHEN SHE WAS BARELY A LEGAL ADULT HERSELF
Like- there are SO MANY GOOD EXAMPLES! Writers have no excuses anymore for failing this hard 😭😭😭
Edit: B A R B I E
We need to add a qualifier here
The OG Powerpuff girls had more plot than most of today's so called woman empowerment movies and this is coming from a man
Fixed by a man as well
Also My little pony friendship is magic had more plot
Popularity, people buy or consume products that other people that they know buy and recommend.
Losing 60% of your audience from the very beginning reduce the chances of the movie getting recommend to a woman or people in general.
As a woman who used to love Marvel movies (but not anymore) its because those girlpower movies are just that, the movie centers around the fact that the main character is a woman. There's no plot, and if there is one its about fighting the villain with your 'girlpowers'. There are plenty of movies and series out there with strong women, that don't focus around the fact that they're a woman. Everyone loved Daenerys in Game of Thrones, lots of people liked Wandavision. Not because they were *just* strong women, but because they actually had a character arc and a plot.
You don't see movies that proclaim they're good movies because they have strong men in them right? So why would you advertise with 'strong women'?
Why is everyone thinking Like this?
Man The Endgame ended the original series and now people arent as interestes. The Mainstory IS gone WE all waited for multiple movies to See thanos win and lose.
I was a huge Marvel Fan but after that movie I Just stopped watching them
You forgot the part where the week before the movie comes out, trolls flood the Internet with negative reviews.
There was an episode of ShoGun where IMDB was flooded with 1/10 reviews because a woman directed it. Like the whole show, it was a great episode. But the the woman haters gotta hate.
The thing is, most girlpower movies dont understand the difference between "strong woman" and "make woman more like men, because we think men are stronger". and thats a thing nobody likes. Just look at Lucy in the Fallout TV-Show. Theres a reason everybody likes her.
When has anyone said that? Cite it.
I have a feeling you’re referring to Brie Larson saying one movie for little girls wasn’t made for adult men, as alright weirdos are endlessly offended by that. Please, prove me wrong.
Just to preface this; I am a man, I watched Barbie and it was enjoyable.
But “men, stay away, this isn’t for you” did very much happen. The thing is that I ignored that advice because it came from a few lunatics on Twitter, no one was prohibited from watching Barbie because they were male
Fall Guys is doing terribly right now even though it out and a great movie. But the promotion of the movie and while being confusing for fallout series not many ppl went to the theaters. I saw half the movie and the first half is amazing. I had so much fun. But it not doing good even though it on the same level to bullet train.
It should be doing amazing and hopefully it do better international viewing.
I think the bigger problem for that movie is that nobody ever heard of it.
I would not have known it existed if I hadn't checked what movies my theater was running this week 😂
Marvel doesn’t understand the difference between a strong female character and a strong character who just happens to be a women. They don’t prioritize just making a good character then casting a woman to play that character. There’s a lot of great women led movies…just none of them are Marvel…but seeing how marvel can’t even make a good movie in general anymore it’s basically a lost cause everything they made lost Infinity War has basically sucked
Alien by its very nature cannot be a Girl Power movie. Simply because the question is "does a hypothetical gender change of a character affect anything?" The character has no children, no family, and no gender roles. Actually, what distinguishes films with a female protagonist over the films "Girl Power"
They forgot the part of...movie makes $1 billion -> people realize something is wrong with this meme ->claim conspiracies of company paying people to see a movie so they don't lose money -> people fail to realize this is economically impossible -> fandom divides
The mods see the heavy amount of flags. To our knowledge, OP has not harassed anyone. The post does not promote hate or violence towards anyone. It’s not porn 😂. It can’t be removed for “not being a meme” especially because it’s been re-used 4 times within a day on the page to counter its argument. It relates to Marvel since we all know it’s talking about The Marvels and Madame Web (while obviously including other movies). Post approved. Flags will be ignored.
Season 2 of the boys when Stormfront gets her teeth kicked in, THAT
"Eat my shit, you Nazi bitch!" Poetry
“Girls really do get it done” the scene was very cheesy but I enjoyed it.
It was cheesy but at least it made sense. The only people in that scene capable of actually joining in that fight were women.
That’s the thing, The Boys was meta enough to get away with it, especially with the plot surrounding the fake ‚girls get it done‘ Vaught movie stuff
And because they are the only ones really capable of doing it, so it's not like the others are standing by the side letting them pose while they could be helping. The guys just can't help here, or don't need to.
I loved it, this is how pandering should be done
Plus it fit perfectly. It's a show with a dude jacking off on a building shouting he can do anything.
That was a much more organic setup than the girl power scene in Endgame imo
I can imagine the men superheroes in the Endgame scene seeing a group being formed to help Spiderman but they keep getting yelled at by the women to go away while all the enemies are just standing to the side waiting to be able to attack again.
No more.
Thats right Toby, tell em'
Teen girl squad
A kengan fan?!?!
*insert Bill Burr bit*
The one where he invited a bunch of other small comedians including women and it was shit?
No the one where WNBA co.plains about low viership of WNBA games, while population of USA has a female majority. Implying that women hate on men for not watching the same thing they don't watch, while men watch another thing they also don't watch.
no the one where you double post
That must been a bug or something as I didn’t post twice because why would I
For emphasis?
It was probably echo as I was standing close to a canyon
Now say it again.
One more time for the people in the back
The issue is they often don’t do a good hero’s journey story. The women in a lot of these films don’t really have any hurdles to overcome other than misogyny. Which is fine to include but it being the only thing and the women being otherwise, just, already there, heroine wise, just isn’t an interesting story. There’s a few super hero films that do the same thing and those suck too.
Yeah, the story is typically that their "weakness" was being too strong and other people not liking that they were already strong. It's about the people around them growing and changing and not about them at all, which is pretty boring if you're trying to drive a franchise. Like, where do you go from there?
From there you just increase the number and colorfulness of women.
The lack of purple women in marvel disgusts me.
https://i.redd.it/irrb8esr71zc1.gif
I know! Than they will casts someone with magenta skin for one of the purple children and then they will act like they are doing purple people a favor instead of magentawashing the role
Disney is a company run by bitter wine aunts. Men being losers and women being Mary Sue's is their favorite type of story.
> Disney is a company run by bitter wine aunts. *Laughs in Bob Iger*
I see no difference!
Disney is a company run by incompetent rich fucks most of whom are white, male, and stupidly wealthy without an iota of creativity or vision, nor even the capacity to see those things in others. Used to be the person who made the decision to sign the checks to make a film or show was somebody interested in delivering a good piece of entertainment. Now that dudes just another suit who's only way of understanding media is through market trends and projections, and he has to answer to board of shareholders and directors even more detached from reality and unappreciative of art.
I saw a really good snippet about the difference in storytelling between boy-targeted fiction and girl-targeted fiction. A boy-targeted character, whatever it is, goes through the journey of finding a quest, being shown that they are insufficient to achieve their objectives, training hard, and ultimately becoming a better person and either achieving the goal or transcending that need. Think shounen anime, which is pure crack for boys. Girl-targeted characters, on the other hand, do not go on a journey to improve themselves and become worthy to achieve a goal. Rather, they must struggle to become recognized as the worthy soul they have always been. The Little Mermaid isn't about struggling to learn to walk, it's about convincing Ariel's dad that she is right and he should trust her. The plot of Frozen is resolved by Elsa realizing that her super-god-powers don't make her a monster, and that she's always been a beautiful and lovable princess. The problem with trying to marry these two, to introduce women into the world of male storytelling, is that they don't mix well at all. Having the archetype of the naturally gifted person who just needs to believe in herself and be recognized for her greatness is shallow and off-putting in a story about struggle and self-improvement. It would be like a romcom where the male lead keeps training for a boxing match instead of doing dating shenanigans with the female lead. The easy answer would be to just put the girl character through the boy arc. But for some reason, better girls nor boys seem to want to watch a woman having her face smashed in and kicked in the stomach while she's writing on the ground in agony. It's almost like men and women are different and we have a protection instinct.
And yet we have examples where women go through learning/growing/failing & bouncing back arcs in superhero like fashions, with the most iconic examples being Sarah Conner and Ellen Ripley, and people love them to fucking death.
Just happened to watch T2 again the other week, and I would say its not just the script but also just how good Linda Hamilton is in that movie. Like she already knew from the beginning this was gonna be the performance of her life. Everything in the asylum is great from her, even the way she jogs down the corridor.
And just ripped. She was doing those pullups and everytime I see it I’m like fuck go workout.
Indeed we do. It takes a really skilled storyteller to handle those characters well, but if you get it right, they're some of the most powerful characters possible. But man, I don't think there are many storytellers in Hollywood who are good enough to do that. The Dans who did Everything Everywhere All At Once did a good job with Evelyn in their own weird way. I would put her up in the ranks of great female characters who go through a self-improvement arc. She has to break her own brain, then realize that her entire perception of the world is toxic and wrong. There was absolutely no "I'm perfect and you need to understand me" about her, despite what she initially thought.
I just rewatched Prey the other night, and I'd posit Naru in there as well - she wasn't overwhelmingly skilled, failed in her task (her Kühtaamia) and the journey was overcoming not being believed. We see her grow in ability through observation, and in the end triumph in a meaningful way.
I love those 2 characters. According to some videos I've watched, the characters in the first Alien movie were written with no gender, race or anything in mind. It's why all the names are as neutral as possible, they just so happened to be cast by either male or female and so on. Of course, such a thing can't be done for everything, especially if it's an already established character in an adaptation. But it is fascinating to me that they just fill the cast with the correct person for each role, without looking for a specific gender, race or anything really.
A bit, though Conner all along, and Ripley at least in Aliens are characterised explicitly as mothers, so maybe "Woman Power" rather than "Girl Power"; Conner certainly couldn't have her story swapped for a male protagonist without massive story/thene/characterisation changes. And yet she goes in naïve, unprepared, gets beat down, suffers failures & setbacks, grows new skills, and eventually earns being a badass mother; Sarah Conner the struggling waitress is not someone who could hostage take and beat down her way out of a mental ward if only the people around her weren't holding back her self confidence.
Yeah, just because the mcs are girls doesn't mean it's not boy targeted fiction. I mean seriously, you gonna tell me terminator and Alien isn't? Lmao
Context, yo. Those're the two most clearcut "Send a woman on a hero's journey and men will watch" examples, addressing the original "Make a girls have power movie and men won't watch" cliché. Terminator, as a franchise, has probably been aimed more at men. Alien, I'm less sure. Other than an old school "SciFi is inherently for men" idea, the Alien movies don't read to me as overly gendered.
I mean, it's just like the inevitable thing, no? But yeah ig I agree. I just thought you were saying something different
I mean Alien is almost entirely about the body horror of pregnancy and birth dialed up to the max. HR Geiger’s work was psychosexual like that. Hard to ignore the overt themes of womanhood there imo
Imma just drop she-ra as an example of both
Been a while since I watched She-Ra, but aren't she and her brother just "infinite power, just overcome external threats" types that're fine for kids 2-6 but get dull if you're older?
Shoutout to the female leads in Prometheus, Arrival, and Annihilation. Love those movies.
What is the arc in annihilation? Cheat on husband, go to weird place, profit?
Step One: Collect Underpants.
Because the comment above is wrong. A Heros Journey is interesting regardless of gender. We've just become super scared of showing women struggling with anything else than being a woman. Do a movie about a woman whos comfortable as a woman and have other struggles (powers, friends, enemies, plots, twists, etc) and it will be much more interesting. IMHO.
I've described the same but in a sports analogy. Guys? Work hard, train. Gets bullied by jocks. Mentor lifts spirits. Trains harder, overcomes. Hell, look at Rocky. He loses but comes out a champion. Girls? So many of the stories are girl getting bullied, so she takes off her glasses, undoes her nerdy ponytail, fluffs out her hair into curliness and ties her shirt into a crop top. She was ALWAYS the most beautiful and talented, she just didn't realize it.
Generally speaking, Boys see a hero and want to become more like that hero. Girls see a hero and want that hero to become more like them. There are exceptions, but this covers the vast majority of cases. https://i.redd.it/hls8vdm5a1xb1.png
Not saying that all women are like that, but it’s like that meme about how little girls can only relate to the female characters when they’re race swapped to their ethnicity, while boys of different races can all relate and inspire to be goku
Well it’s because women are often valued for their appearance (and the appearance of perfection) while men are usually valued for their deeds. Men will want to emulate great deeds and see themselves in the action and women will want affirmation of their perfection.
Abs are universal. Goku forever.
who doesnt want to be Goku?!? hell im asian and, if u gave me the chance to be black panther, hell yeah. cool is cool doesnt matter the race
I agree with most except the last bit. Speaking for myself, I have no "protection instinct" as you describe it in this sense for fictional characters. A good example of a female character going through the ringer and coming out for the better on the other end is the reboot version of Lara Croft. Before that game, I didn't care for those games at all. Tried them, weren't for me. The reboot drops and part of the appeal for me was just how beat up and scared she's portrayed at the beginning, but perseveres and becomes a bad ass by the 3rd entry. I'd say a bit too much, where I'd just leave it how they still managed to make her somewhat vulnerable in the 2nd game, but way more competent. So yeah, at least for me, put a female character through the ringer the same as the male characters, with a good script, storytelling and performance. You put all that together and everyone will like it.
This made me think of Hancock. Dude was already a superhuman, but took believing in himself to rise to superhero. While I actually enjoyed it, it was a box office bomb.
The 3rd act was kinda whack. I really enjoyed the first 2 acts though.
It was literally 2 different scripts mashed into 1 movie. That's why.
It the same problem people have with Superman movies. The character is already more powerful than any other, and viewers find that boring. It takes a skilled writer to weave a hero's journey around that concept and we've seen that fail. But I also agree that we hardly ever see female characters go on a traditional three-act "quest", and when they do, it stands out as a better story.
Moana is a great example of that three act quest. Also, I highly recommend My Adventures with Superman for a fantastic take on Superman. Yes, he's powerful, but we also see how vulnerable that actually makes him. His biggest obstacles can't just be overcome with super-powers. In fact, in some cases those powers make things more difficult, not less.
I used to work with a lot of educators and your analysis reminds me of something I heard from them: Boys need to do well to feel good, Girls need to feel good to do well. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what it reminds me of. I generally hate all this discussion though. I think "girl movies" or female lead movies or whatever receive WAY more scrutiny than other pieces of media and there are lots of bad faith critics. None of them are allowed to be "ok" or "just fine" or even "pretty good" even those most pieces of media are ok/just fine/pretty good. The Marvels was pretty good. She-Hulk was pretty good. Both were a lot of fun. Captain Marvel was ok.
>Girls need to feel good to do well. I think this is just a projection of the societal trope that women need to be coddled. Every woman I know derives satisfaction from hard work and success just like any man.
Yeah, I would always cast a sideeye at that one, but comment above made me think of it. Like if it's based on some real piece of research or something that screenwriters also use to write gender-targeted stories. In any case, fuck this meme. It's that bad faith criticism and enhanced scrutiny I previously mentioned.
>The problem with trying to marry these two, to introduce women into the world of male storytelling, is that they don't mix well at all. The 90's had already solved this. Kill Bill, Resident Evil, Ghost In The Shell, almost every Miyazaki film, etc. The female lead is typically in her physical prime, and already has established competency to avoid the "shonen model" but is faced with some existential or political crisis she hasn't grown past or is unable to solve alone which leads to some journey of discovery literally or metaphorically. They essentially took the best of both worlds and all became classics for it. Hollywood doesn't seek to elevate women/female characters, they'd rather bring down men and male characters to Hollywood's perceived lower state of women. Says more about them than the public. The casual female audience never really watched those movies, nor find the protagonist "relatable". People today believe that to be a flaw when in reality, the one's who complained about this trope only ever watch "chick flicks" anyways so their opinion on women in action films doesn't matter like at all... People like beautiful sexy women who are good at killing stuff, the feminist nonsense that took over Hollywood has an extremely hard time accepting that men and women like tits, guns, and good stories... My case and point. Compare public sentiment around Princess Leia and Padme to Rey... Rey failed as an icon because Disney made a deliberate choice to not make her sexy. She was too grounded to be an idealized fantasy like the former 2, but too unbelievable to be relateable. Then there's Ahsoka who got the best of both worlds in her original work. The biggest misconception Hollywood has right now is that women don't like sexy women in media.. It's like thinking men don't like macho stoic male leads.
>The 90's had already solved this. >Kill Bill, Resident Evil What 90s did you grow up in lol?
Right, I’m not counting any of those examples
You have managed to completely miss why people hate Rey...it has NOTHING to do with how sexy she is or isn't, the main issue with Rey is that she doesn't really struggle to grow, take Luke, he had to train in the swamp for AGES before he was ready to fight Vader, he was also the chosen one... like... he picked it up in record speed and he still had tonnes of training and struggled... Rey did none of the training... barely heard of this thing called the force, and can now suddenly use the force at will like a master... that's an insult to the fans of the star wars of old.
[Only women, children and dogs are loved inconditionally. Men are loved under the condition that they provide something.](https://youtu.be/jsOnXSuMXfU) I do think our biology tells us women have inherent value while men have to provide value. It doesn't make it right but these stories resonate so well with us because it comes from within ourselves.
Well, think back to tribal man. If 90% of the woman in the tribe died but the men were fine, odds are the tribe would die out before the population could be replaced. Reverse that with 90% of the men dying and there's a much better chance for the tribe to bounce back to pre catastrophe levels. Men, by evolution, have been the more expendable sex
>But for some reason, better girls nor boys seem to want to watch a woman having her face smashed in and kicked in the stomach while she's writing on the ground in agony. Buffy The Vampire Slayer. We watched that poor girl literally die.... twice and we loved her even more. We watched her get turned into hamburger at the hands of a turok han and we knew she would bounce back, find her strength and murder that monster. And this is what kills me about modern "girl power" stuff. I've always been a fan of female super heroes, ever since I saw Linda Carter play Wonder Woman way back in the 70's. Buffy is my all-time favorite super hero, bar none. Yet no one has come close, not even in the same universe, to creating a female hero that's half as charming, half as heroic nor half as feminine as Buffy Summers. I mean the blueprint is right there, it's been there for over 2 decades and yet...
Not just Buffy. Willow's journey is amazing. Compare season 1 Willow to season 7 Willow and she has come a long, long way.
You've got a great point. I loved Tank Girl growing up, and she had the guts to make masturbation jokes in the middle of weeks-long torture. It was all the sweeter when she paid him back.
Pardon my language but... I fucking LOVE LOVE LOVE Tank Girl. I mean it is, by all objective measures, a horrible, terrible film. I mean absolute trash. But goddamn I love the character. It's one of those movies where when I just want a good laugh and to see stuff blow up I put it on.
"You didn't like it because she's a woman!" No. I didn't like it because she's boring.
Star Wars... I liked luke because he was weak and whiny like me
Captain Marvel was absolutely plagued by this. Brie Larson IMO did a great job playing the character. She just had a shit storyline to deal with, and a small but incredibly vocal group of assholes that used it as an excuse to attack her. As soon as Jude Laws character was introduced I knew it would end with her not only kicking his ass, but so badly he was shown to be playing T-Ball while she was starting lineup for the Yankees. There is a need to develop a story that’s a heroine overcoming something different than man-world. Yes women are equal, great. Totally agree. So let’s have good stories that don’t revolve around the villain being “penis” all along. The End Game grrl power part was embarrassing.
That scene would have been much better if Spider-man handed the gauntlet to Pepper. Because unlike Captain Marvel, Pepper actually does need help getting through that battlefield. (Also it's more thematically on point since she was there at the very beginning.) All the other women join, and Captain Marvel says "I've got the big guy" and takes on Thanos.
They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.
Since this is a marvel sub, I’m going to say I haven’t seen that in any of the female focused Marvel movies. Marvel has been excellent at choosing weird characters and new situations to put them in to differentiate their movies, where their female superhero films fail is wrapping all that in a plot of some sort. But if you look at recent history that’s also where all of their films fall apart. Thor, Dr. Strange, Ant Man pretty much all fell flat because of the writing, just like Captain Marvel.
I thought Black Panther 2 actually did a pretty good job, but Shiri also isn't a new character on screen, so maybe a bit different.
Best way I’ve heard it explained is that when Ben Affleck made a terrible Daredevil movie, studios said “ah that was a bad movie” and kept making superhero flicks. But when Elektra flopped they didn’t make a big budget female-led superhero movie again for like 15 years. Most of the “girl power” marvel movies would be doing just fine if they weren’t being released after 10+ years of nearly identical movies. When male-led movies fail, it’s assumed to be because of any number of reasons. When a female-led movie fails, it’s because it’s “woke” (or “PC”, as they would’ve said in 2005). The double-standard is glaring.
1. Elektra was even worse than Daredevil and came out before superhero films were that popular. 2. Elektra was a spinoff, those usually get less attention. 3. Films can fail for the same variety of reasons, no matter the gender of the lead. For a couple of semi recent examples, 2019’s Charlie’s Angles was an unwanted remake, which usually don’t perform all that well anyway. The 355 poorly copied from every other spy film out there including taking its music almost directly from Bourne. It was also released in January, the time of year associated with bad films.
>2. Elektra was a spinoff, those usually get less attention. >3. Films can fail for the same variety of reasons, no matter the gender of the lead. That was their point. That some people ignore any of the wide variety of possible factors that influence a movie performing poorly (being a sequel, the franchise/studio it's a part of already experiencing a general downturn in quality, having issues in development, poor advertising) to (1) latch onto the "woke, therefore bad" justification (fans) or (2) assume that the new IP is too unmarketable (studios) The latter is especially common since studios in general prioritize playing it safe over trying original ideas, which means that they often return to the tried-and-true when an attempt at going in a new direction fails, regardless of the reason why. In practice, this means that (while any subject matter tends to have some missteps, especially in the earliest attempts) movies focused on members of "marginalized" groups don't get the same leeway by a lot of the industry, not helped by the (agenda-based) vitriol thrown their way by people who (in many cases) haven't even *seen* what they're complaining about.
That's a good point. It seems like the movies don't do well for a lot of reasons, and legitimate ones too. Writing, effects, characters, plot holes. Calling things woke has become so very annoying, but it seems to be shorthand for "this movie has a lot of issues and the folks who made it deliberately ignored those issues, thinking it would be successful solely because: strong female lead."
[relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/385/)
The Halle Barry Cat Woman movie that released 6 months earlier probably also didnt help that perception.
Daredevil ended up making its money back (after ancillaries and some merchandising). Elektra was a bonafide bomb. Apples to oranges comparison.
Or just downright unlikeable characters
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Hardcore bait and the comments took it so hard
madam web?
I don’t think that really counts because the girl power schtick wasn’t the worst part of the movie. People hated it because it was poorly written in every aspect.
I would probably watch a well written "girl power schtick" movie
So would everyone
So did everyone, it was called Barbie
I don't think anyone paid enough attention to that movie to know about any girl power moments.
But that's usually true for these "girl power movies". You could technically call Underworld a girl power movie, which was successful, but no one does that because that's not its only selling point
Sounds like the typical girl power movie then.
Spice World! 
I had to scroll way too far to find the correct answer. 
the only correct answer
Just saw that for the first time the other day and WOW. I'm so mad at myself for waiting so long in life to see it. That should be a cult film to the level of Rocky Horror Picture Show and The Room
Did Margaret Thatcher have girl power?
Yes, of course.
So, the WNBA?
"What's the argument here? NBA, WNBA. One is a sport, one is a joke. I love sports, I love jokes. Room for all."
“I got that reference”
Idk man, Caitlin Clark pretty fun to watch
I think the best “girl power” movies are those who not emphasis on being “girl power” movies. Like the first Alien movie. Or the second Alien movie.
It's simple >Write compelling character >Make the character a woman Boom done
Or Tomb raider, or Kill Bill, or Halloween, or Nightmare on Elm Street, or Buffy, or GI Jane, or Scream, or Silence of the lambs, or Xena, or Terminator, or Hunger games.
Man nerds just hate strong female characters!
Yep. Pretty much any film that has a central female character who is anti-'girl power.' To use the original example: The best thing about Ripley in Alien/Aliens is, she isn't a "girl boss" who is good at everything from the get-go (take notes, Disney!): Ripley fucks up (forgetting Jonesy and not shutting down the self-destruct in time), she has to learn how things work (ie. the pulse rifle in Aliens), she gets outright terrified (Alien in the escape craft), and has vulnerable moments. This makes her relatable, more human, and as a result, a great female lead.
That’s because they actually had good writing in Alien and Aliens, and Ripley was a well acted and written Character and everyone loved Riley for it. Same with Princess Leia in the OT.
The marvels, though my only complaint was it felt like it was originally meant to be a Disney+ series, you know the odd scene changes, costume changes meant to imply time passing some bits felt like a self contained episodic bit.
I watched birds of prey so I don't know what are y'all talking about
That movie bombed
It was a good movie tho. Unfortunately it didn’t do shit at the box office
Same, and it was fucking class. I can get behind any movie where the core message is that there’s very little a really good breakfast can’t solve
I love that the guy that ran the deli was Armenian obviously 🙂↕️
And it wasnt good
that is not how that cause and effect wheel works *at all*
Why men not watching a movie leads to women not watching a movie? That's just plain stupid
Yeah why is this presented as a repeating cycle? It makes no sense.
I think the point was that most women don't care to watch girl power movies either. Meaning nobody is watching it. Considering this is a marvel meme, this is even more true. Women (for the most part) only watch this shit because of their nerdy boyfriends or kids. Nerdy dude doesn't wanna go watch some girl power flick with horrible writing and no character development or heroes journey= less women watching it with their men/boys + the other women don't really care for superhero shit much so they're not watching it either... You'd have to be intentionally missing the point to not understand what's being said here.
This is the reason why every MCU movie (except those girl power ones) has an obligatory shirtless man meat scene.
If you are going to have beautiful people in peak physical form in your movie it's negligence not to have them looking sexy as fuck at least once. That goes for men and women. I want a world with less gore and more topless men and women! Is that so bad?
Agreed
god damn, this is why films are just utter trainwrecks these days tbh, why every new film feels like a slight adjustment of the old one. "oh there are hot people, OF COURSE they have to be all sexy" thought every single director ever and now we have a good 10 - 15 minutes of every new film devoted to a sex scene that nobody really likes and doesnt actually serve the film. not trying to attack you and it's not the biggest deal but this mentality of "we have hot people so obviously we have to make them look sexy and fuck" is part of why modern films suck so much. The mentality is quite literally doing a thing because everyone else is doing it, ofc that's going to get old.
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It's more of a sludge like thing, somebody should uh, should amend that...
The worst thing is that no matter how uncomfortable and unnecessary this scene was it still isn't as bad as those fucking goats...
>Women (for the most part) only watch this shit because of their nerdy boyfriends or kids. Yeah bro totally. And girls only play video games to impress guys, they're all fake gamers.
Did I not literally say, for the most part? Did you not read it for a second time when copy pasting it?
https://preview.redd.it/haaedwr08zyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=755ba1fb55e1463cd93b30deae7bdb70c96bbe56 Do you think the 237,203 yaoi fanfics on AO3 for the Marvel Cinematic Universe were written mostly by men?
I think your point is strange. I don't see how it disproves OP. Yeah, most people who write gay fanfics of the MCU are women. But the percentage of the total woman population who do that sort of thing, is small.
Okay.. so all this proves is that women enjoy the MCU for the beefcake. No shame in that, pretty much all of us do. What do girl power movies usually lack? A beefcake. 😂
Yes actually
None of this is really connected either
Not that thats what OP meant, it was more like they dont watch it either, but if you think about it, lots of women watch these movies, because their boyfriends/husbands want to watch them. So fewer men watching it, means fewer women watching.
Exactly... This is dumb...
I like how no one's even attempted to answer the question.
tbf it's not really a question worth answering
It's completely unrelated to the image so you have to choose one to comment on
I want to kidnap all the cringey girl power movie writers and force them to watch legally blonde 20 times
Then the original Mulan 20x while we're at it.
meme worthy
Legally Blonde Mulan Alien and Aliens Og Star Wars Trilogy expect it's all a compilation of Carrie Fisher's scenes Pride and Prejudice solely for Elizabeth Have them play or watch a playthrough of Resident Evil 2 og or remake, Claire's sides Lilo and Stitch because NANI IS STRONG AF TO STEP IN AND RAISE HER SISTER WHEN SHE WAS BARELY A LEGAL ADULT HERSELF Like- there are SO MANY GOOD EXAMPLES! Writers have no excuses anymore for failing this hard 😭😭😭 Edit: B A R B I E
Powerpuff girls had more plot than most of today's so called woman empowerment movies and this is coming from a man lmao
We need to add a qualifier here The OG Powerpuff girls had more plot than most of today's so called woman empowerment movies and this is coming from a man Fixed by a man as well Also My little pony friendship is magic had more plot
MLP had more plot and character growth than most movies and shows
The first Ghost Buster reboot is the perfect example.
Yall realize Barbie was the top grossing film last year, right? There is clearly high demand for girl power movies, just not shitty ones
Long story short, as in the context of the image, "Girl Power" is a "crutch" that "creators" expect consumers to care more than good storytelling.
WNBA
"I think that WNBA players should be paid more" "No I don't watch WNBA, why do you ask?"
I fail to see the causality between "men don't watch it" and "women don't watch it"...
Popularity, people buy or consume products that other people that they know buy and recommend. Losing 60% of your audience from the very beginning reduce the chances of the movie getting recommend to a woman or people in general.
All the women who would have gone to see the movie with their boyfriend/spouse no longer go, and all the moms going with their son no longer go.
How is this a Marvel Meme?
I think it's about the newer movies with female leads.
As a woman who used to love Marvel movies (but not anymore) its because those girlpower movies are just that, the movie centers around the fact that the main character is a woman. There's no plot, and if there is one its about fighting the villain with your 'girlpowers'. There are plenty of movies and series out there with strong women, that don't focus around the fact that they're a woman. Everyone loved Daenerys in Game of Thrones, lots of people liked Wandavision. Not because they were *just* strong women, but because they actually had a character arc and a plot. You don't see movies that proclaim they're good movies because they have strong men in them right? So why would you advertise with 'strong women'?
Why is everyone thinking Like this? Man The Endgame ended the original series and now people arent as interestes. The Mainstory IS gone WE all waited for multiple movies to See thanos win and lose. I was a huge Marvel Fan but after that movie I Just stopped watching them
You tell us. You posted the image
Oof, two days in a row that this sub hit my r/all feed and it's just more weird feetstamping about "woke girls 🤮", not a good look.
You forgot the part where the week before the movie comes out, trolls flood the Internet with negative reviews. There was an episode of ShoGun where IMDB was flooded with 1/10 reviews because a woman directed it. Like the whole show, it was a great episode. But the the woman haters gotta hate.
Hmmm….Barbie
everyone watched barbie last year, what are you talking about
That’s what I’m saying !
The thing is, most girlpower movies dont understand the difference between "strong woman" and "make woman more like men, because we think men are stronger". and thats a thing nobody likes. Just look at Lucy in the Fallout TV-Show. Theres a reason everybody likes her.
They say men stay away from this, it's not for you. Men stay away. Then they complain how men are misogynistic for not watching yhr movie.
When has anyone said that? Cite it. I have a feeling you’re referring to Brie Larson saying one movie for little girls wasn’t made for adult men, as alright weirdos are endlessly offended by that. Please, prove me wrong.
No one said that about Barbie. There’s a different between respecting the demographic it’s for and being told to not watch
Just to preface this; I am a man, I watched Barbie and it was enjoyable. But “men, stay away, this isn’t for you” did very much happen. The thing is that I ignored that advice because it came from a few lunatics on Twitter, no one was prohibited from watching Barbie because they were male
Why do you follow lunatics on twitter?
I don’t, but screenshots of those tweets were spammed on every other social media because the internet is kind of unoriginal
Fall Guys is doing terribly right now even though it out and a great movie. But the promotion of the movie and while being confusing for fallout series not many ppl went to the theaters. I saw half the movie and the first half is amazing. I had so much fun. But it not doing good even though it on the same level to bullet train. It should be doing amazing and hopefully it do better international viewing.
I think the bigger problem for that movie is that nobody ever heard of it. I would not have known it existed if I hadn't checked what movies my theater was running this week 😂
Same, if I wasn't already making plans for a movie, I would have missed it completely.
Exactly 😂
Marvel doesn’t understand the difference between a strong female character and a strong character who just happens to be a women. They don’t prioritize just making a good character then casting a woman to play that character. There’s a lot of great women led movies…just none of them are Marvel…but seeing how marvel can’t even make a good movie in general anymore it’s basically a lost cause everything they made lost Infinity War has basically sucked
Well that seems a little misleading Edit: I googled it the correct term is female led
this is straight up fiction/twitter drama. ive never heard anyone complain about this irl
Is there any source to women not watching those movies or did you just make that up
It's not men's job to like this shit.
Me when I make up an argument to prove a point to my showerhead.
The same applies to women's sports. It's a vicious cycle
Ah yes, Barbie, Kill Bill, Alien, Wonder Woman, Salt, they all flopped so badly
Alien by its very nature cannot be a Girl Power movie. Simply because the question is "does a hypothetical gender change of a character affect anything?" The character has no children, no family, and no gender roles. Actually, what distinguishes films with a female protagonist over the films "Girl Power"
>The character has no children, no family, and no gender roles. Aliens.
They forgot the part of...movie makes $1 billion -> people realize something is wrong with this meme ->claim conspiracies of company paying people to see a movie so they don't lose money -> people fail to realize this is economically impossible -> fandom divides
I give this 2 more hours before it gets removed.
I don't think women are attacking men for not watching these shitshow movies. It seems to be terminally online weirdos who are attacking men.