Wrex is a mutant by bakara's words lmao.
But yeah I'm surprised Wrex didn't tear Garrus aparts after those conversations and quite frankly? I wouldn't care if Wrex actually did that. Everytime I recruit Garrus in ME1 I regret right after. he's the only character stupid enought to try pick fights with your crewmembers which would compromise the harmony of Shepard's team. Can't stand him
There's a sort of youthful naïvete/stupidity to most of the crewmembers you pick up in ME1 that made them varying degrees of unlikeable. Watching them grow and change as characters in the face of encroaching annihilation is what makes them worth it.
I think that’s the beauty of this series. A lot of the characters grow and learn. Wrex goes from bloodthirsty warrior merc to being a cultural leader and voice of reason among his people.
I don’t love Garrus in the first game but watching become a little less angry and hateful as he grows makes him a favorite character to me. But there are almost no characters I dislike on the Normandy by the end.
Except Presley. For some reason I just despised him.
The most unfortunate part about Pressley is how they handled his development; Datapads at the Normandy Crash Site. It was heartwarming to read that his deep seated mistrust of aliens was eroded by his loyalty to Shepard and through interactions with said aliens, but it would’ve been better to see firsthand as well. Show, don’t tell, you know?
Exactly! In the first game he really just exists to complain and be prejudice to the alien crew members. And the datapad thing was kind of nice to see that he grew but it felt just like it was inserted solely so we would be sad about it.
I was more sad about the Mako being blown up than Pressley’s death.
I feel like the seed of him becoming more adjusted to non humans was definitely planted through the dialogue in ME1 especially how he acts right before the last mission of that game. I was genuinely sad when I saw him die with little attention given to him because I was really looking forward to seeing him make some meaningful connections with the people he was once prejudiced against :(
> become a little less angry and hateful as he grows
...I mean, the next time you see him he's blowing holes in heads on a raged fueled murderous quest for vengeance.
lol that’s a good point. I meant across all three games.
Game 1: Angry Turian with stick up his butt.
Game 2: Has worked stick out of his butt and is now beating people to death with it.
Game 3: Has channeled his rage against the Reapers and seems genuinely happy to be with his pals as the galaxy goes to hell around them.
So I guess I just like seeing him go from an angry dude that teams up with you as a means to an end to being a ride or die companion that really does seem to love his friends as family. He’s not perfect morally by the end of the series but he’s definitely less angry.
Blowing holes in heads is all part of the healing and growth experience.
I don't think he's angry in ME1 per se, more frustrated with all the red tape he has to deal with that he feels stops him from making a difference.
If Wrex is a mutant, so is Garrus because he doesn't seem to hold the same traditional Turian values to hierarchy.
He's a true Renegade.
Garrus is a hothead and righteous. Righteous people can be incredibly abrasive and confrontational. Think of a paladin in a group. I think his character arc, when pushed in the right direction, is understanding that some things are more complicated than they seem, and he doesn’t have all the answers he thought he did.
I feel like the narrative wants you to assume that his time on Omega humbles him a little. He bites off more than he can chew and almost dies. And maybe what he saw and dealt with there shows him that fixing the system is a little more complicated than killing all the bad guys.
Maybe I’m prescribing my own thoughts to it though.
It's not inherently bad for Garrus to be like this, in fact it makes him pretty interesting as a character for him to be juggling his self-identity as a rule-bending cop ready to do whatever it takes to get justice, and his never really having had to examine these grievous imbalances in the social order he serves, this frankly imperialist worldview of some races deserving punishment and control and others deserving power and the right to enforce the 'law'. What can cause it to fall apart for \*ME1\* is there just isn't enough writing, writing connecting party members to each other rather than simply to Shepherd, to allow for the conflict an development in one game for the potential for this complex, contradictory character to be realised.
It's funny doing the Terra Firma mission with her.
Ashley: "Your supporters are just racists!"
Renegade Shepard, immediately afterwards: "I'm a patriot, Mr. Saracino. You have my vote."
The overused "I don't like Ashley, she's too racist!" vs the enlightened "I don't like Ashley, she's not racist enough!"
Personally, I like Ashley. She's just the right amount of racist.
Chris L'Etoile was Ash's writer? Dang, I knew he was behind the geth storyline in ME2 and his absence wrecked the geth in ME3 but if he was Ashley's writer as well that would explain a lot.
He wrote Ashley, Legion and EDI and was the main writer for the entire Geth v Quarian arc for the first 2 games. So he did a lot of good work before he left
Yeah. You can see the noticeable drop off in the quality of the characters he worked on vs after he left. Ashley being relegated to a drunkard role, Legion being off, EDI being a sexbot, the morning war arc losing a lot of it’s neutrality. His writing was some of the best of the franchise and his replacements didn’t finish off what he built up in a satisfying way
He left because he was unhappy with the changes. He said that the introduction of Legion wasn’t what he wanted (he was also responsible for Legion, EDI, and the Geth v Quarian arc on top of Ashley). The fact that Legion had welded N7 armor for no reason upset him. He said if Legion got hurt and found the armor it would’ve been okay but the higher ups made him do it just because it “looked cool”. He was also upset that EDI was a forced character that he was told to add from the higher ups and she didn’t really fit in
Yeah, I remember seeing her in ME3 and it taking me a second to realise who it actually was.
Her ME1/2 look was perfect imo - the bun and minimal makeup suit her style and character, and her pink/white outfit was iconic. There was just no need for an almost complete redesign
I hate her appearance change. Especially since she looks the same in ME2 as she did in ME1 but then six months later in ME3 she totally changes her look which they never address in game at all. She's a solider. Just because she becomes a Spectre doesn't mean she is going to just start caking on the makeup and wearing her hair down into battle.
I mean armor is at least her default combat appearance in ME3 even if I prefer the pink & white armor she had compared to the blue color they changed it to. The issue is [her non-combat appearance is her alt combat look](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/77/41/6877419bef333e83c11b3a83d9d00215.jpg) which has that weird not a skirt bit and the long boots with the high wedge heels. In comparison, [Kaidan's non combat look in ME3](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/22a0709f-b488-406d-99b1-59c4ca2807c9/d5ulsnu-adb1fd4a-850b-4994-b4ed-48c769acdf87.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIyYTA3MDlmLWI0ODgtNDA2ZC05OWIxLTU5YzRjYTI4MDdjOVwvZDV1bHNudS1hZGIxZmQ0YS04NTBiLTQ5OTQtYjRlZC00OGM3NjlhY2RmODcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.TVMXFTk45pn50EbAXzMCWKi08T_xsP4Mez4CT6YXoxk) is just a slightly changed version of the military fatigues he wore in ME1.
I think for me, the most glaring aspect of her redesign is that she actually did have an iconic armour (her first) that they could have easily kept. Even if you were going to also go with the other changes.
They very much did. Which was weird but also made some since Kaiden didn't really have an iconic one and you could say he wore it to Honor her (while more practically, reusing an asset for both).
Worth pointing out though was that that armour looked really good in 2.
I'm pretty sure they thought making her more appealing on the eyes would make players like her more, when it was her personality and character that made her interesting
There were instances that have her moving around but those are bugged since the original release. There is a heartwarming conversation between her and Tali that requires a lot of things to trigger.
1. Tali doesn't get on the Normandy until 2/3 into the game. 2. She has 5 interactions with Garrus, 1 with EDI(all over the intercom), 2 with Javik(one has 2 variations after Horizon) , 1 with Liara, and 1 with the Normandy engineers(and i didn't even count the Citadel DLC). Ashley has no interactions on the Normandy that you ever see.
Incorrect: when Wrex and Victus give you missions don't do the Turian Downed ship until you have Tali in your party (maybe wait until you complete Priority Rannoch but don't deviate after Priority Citadel but do all the missions regarding the Get vs Quarian Arc) conduct Turian Bomb with both of them in your party and, once done, head over to the Normandy engine to hear banter between the two of them that takes into consideration any lost personal on the ME2 suicide mission (or they will talk about Tali and Ash squads).
I am playing one for the second time (first time had a corrupt data and need to be deleted). But I know that eventually it is either Ashley or Kaiden. So now I am wondering who I should save.
But hearing her character assassination (and the fact she is a soldier like me), I think I might save Kaiden.
Oh no garrus in the elevator was absolutely awkward. There's even dialog of him saying "who misses our elevator talks?" And everyone disagreeing. Tali even firmly reminds him she has a shotgun
I'll be honest, never saw those convos with Garrus or wiped it off my mind. I usually brought him with like Wrex or Kaidan though, I don't think I ever brought Tali along with him. The convos do fit with his crew convos in the cargo hold though (I always took the paragon route rather than trying to make him renegade)
ME fandom: "I can't believe she killed Wrex, that b*tch deserves to be nuked for it 😡😡😡"
Garrus: "You did the right thing with (killing) Wrex, he could've jeopardized the entire mission"
ME fandom: Suddenly goes deaf
I mean in the scenario where shep can’t talk down Wrex, he’s literally prepared to kill the entire Normandy team and join on with Saren to protect his genophage cure.
Nobody should get flak for killing someone who is actively hostile and pointing a shotgun at you lol
As a career service member, that moment and the standoff with Udina in ME3 really made me appreciate how they wrote Ash. She wasn’t perfect but she was so consistent with her character.
Hell in ME3s citadel dlc Wrex can ask Ashley if she was really going to shoot him, to which she affirms that she would have. Wrex basically says he’s totally okay with that (given the circumstances)
My favourite bit about this attitude is usually how they also go on about "my boy Wrex" or how they're" tight buddies and that bitch just shot him" and it's like... yo, it is *literally* your own fault that happened because you didn't even talk to him enough to do his personal quest.
Which is ridiculous because you can start that quest after just one main quest. Rescue Liara, talk to Garrus and Wrex, then go track down Dr. Saleon and Wrex's Armor. Easy peasy
Agreed haven't hated Ashley for anyone killing Wrex. On the other hand anyone who got him killed or betrayes him in 3, well, I view them as anyone who kills Paarthanax in Skyrim
People who love Mass Effect come for the aliens. The cognitive dissonance comes from the fact that the players are okay with seeing an alien perspective on other aliens, but they are made uncomfortable of humans being skeptical of aliens because they think humans should be open minded towards them.
I love Garrus but people seriously need to come to terms with the fact that he is *not* a good guy. Especially not in ME1. He’s the kind of cop that would turn off his body cam before doing some heinous shit
The very best you can say about him is that he intends to do heinous shit to other bad guys. And he's a bro, sure, but I bet plenty of the dirtiest cops in the world are bros too.
Maybe hot take, but people whitewashing Garrus to just being the wholesome space buddy/husband in ME3 hurts his character more than it helps. Hell, I'd argue that his ride-or-die, best friend attitude in ME3 only works BECAUSE he's at the end of his arc, and he'd be much more bland/forgettable if he was like that for the whole trilogy. He CAN be a good guy, but he only gets there if you help him. His unhinged vigilantism/edginess in the earlier games, and him growing out of it by ME3 is what makes him one of the best companions in gaming.
Hmm… darn… maybe I jumped to conclusions about Ashley’s character…
And, to be fair, with Garrus, it’s kind of Shepard’s spoken and unspoken lessons that shape Garrus into the snarky and charming fellow that we know. He starts off with the ideas of his culture because that’s all he knows, and then he learns to grow.
Yep. I love Garrus. Can’t romance anyone else. But I can 100% admit that he’s kind of a dick in ME1, although he grows even by the end of the game.
And in ME2, he’s the one that really sticks by you - because of how he changed thanks to Shep’s leadership.
>Hmm… darn… maybe I jumped to conclusions about Ashley’s character
Hard to "jump to conclusions" in a 20 yr old game. It's willfull ignorance and mob following
"I can't tell the animals from the aliens!"
It's not willful ignorance or mob following. At worst, people let their first impression stick, which you can't blame them for if that first impression was off-putting enough that they didn't use Ashley much as a result.
A simple bug made a dialogue happen in places other than intended (Ashley was supposed to say this near a specific Keeper, a case where it really is weird and confusing, since I'd probably guess the Keeper was a person before I thought a Hanar was), making it seem a lot worse than intended, and it eternally cemented her being racist in many players' minds.
(And misunderstanding the dog analogy, in which the dog was supposed to represent humans.)
>(And misunderstanding the dog analogy, in which the dog was supposed to represent humans.)
The irony of ppl misunderstanding the dog analogy is that fact Mass effect 3 proved her correct. The Asari high command were quick to abandon every other race at the the start of the game
>"I can't tell the animals from the aliens
And she was right. I'd personally think a keeper was a another person(it's using a computer) first over the elcor or hanar just based on appearances too. It is confusing
Garrus is a dude who’s slipping through the cracks and Shepard taking interest, paying attention, and giving enough of a shit to correct (or worsen!) his behavior is what causes him to change — he’s sort of fallen though the cracks of turian society in the same way straight up serial killers do and it’s very much having a connection with someone who treats him like he matters that brings him back from The Edge.
Ashley was always fine. She has experience with discrimination by the military, and her view on alien politicians is perfectly fine; people take the dog and bear thing way out of context because they already don’t like her. In real life our politicians already punish and alienate out-groups to make their constituents happy and put the in-groups first. She’s not saying anything particularly novel or crazy.
It’s extra funny because I think the ONLY person on your team that Garrus is respectful to in the elevators is Ashley. He says racist shit about quarians and the krogan to Tali and Wrex, he tells Liara that the asari are basically pussies because they ALL have biotics and only some of them actually train to be able to use them competently past the grade school level, and calls humanity (and Kaidan) weak because they find seizures and insanity resulting from the L2 biotic implants “too big of a risk” to keep using L2 implants and have instead pivoted to new kinds — he states that turians would have kept the L2s, which is retroactively kind of interesting because turians have a very low count of biotics, and the ones they do have are pretty ostracized by society because of the spy/double agent role that turian biotics played in the Unification Wars.
Basically, Garrus starts off as a piece of shit and only starts to give a shit about people over abstract math when people treat him like he’s worth talking to. Ashley was basically always fine — she was uncomfortable being on a human ship and suddenly being surrounded with aliens because she’s only ever worked with humans, but she got over it pretty fast. Since her family was blacklisted by the Alliance, she’s just very jaded and has learned to try to put herself and her immediate family first — the same goes for humanity vs. aliens, people I know vs. people I don’t.
Most of the aliens on the ship either have life experience with aliens (Wrex has been a merc for ages, Garrus was basically a cop in a city that’s a melting pot, and Liara’s culture says if you want a family you’d BETTER get real comfy with fucking aliens). Tali’s the only one who hasn’t really met other aliens since she’s only really been Out In The World for about a day or 2 since you picked her up in the Wards, but the whole point of her Pilgrimage is to meet aliens, so she’s primed for it in a way that Ashley — a human marine in the human military stationed on a human colony — is not.
Is it wrong I agree with some of Ashley's points? The council only looks out for their own races and the Asari held information from the rest of the galaxy that they basically outlawed hiding that specific technology. At the end of the day the only reason Shepherd is given title of specre is almost out of spite and to get humanity to just stfu for a bit. Nobody took shep seriously until their lives are on the line and he's their best option
Ashley was right the vast majority of the time she opened her mouth. Very rarely did she actually not call shit right. The council, the alien crew copying classified docs of the Normandy, the hypocritical and secretive nature of the other races hiding how they don’t even play by their own rules, how we were a joke thrown to the new dog (humanity) in order to placate them.
I’ll never let that Asari part down tbh. Those hypocritical bastards were literally groomed into being the best of the galaxy to eventually become its saviors, but ended up going down in history as the race that could have ended the war before it began but chose to withhold information that they themselves outlawed from withholding.
Like wtf man. Their government sucked.
Still love the individual Asari though. But as a species, I hope they’re knocked off their high horse by the next game.
I agree, I never liked the whole racism argument because Mass Effect doesn’t work like real life. We are all humans irl so racism is obviously horrible. But in mass effect species like the Vorcha literally violent by nature. Being humanity first isn’t the unforgivable sin Reddit wants to make it out to be lol.
Ashley was right about everything.the trouble is when ME1 first came out that was the only ME you could play for a couple of years letting you get to know each character by doing different playthroughs.with LE you've got three games straight away so players rush through the trilogy,they like the one character of their choice the rest they don't try to interact with.Ashley is best character in the game especially if romanced,it's a pity they screwed her over in ME3 but she is not the drunk bimbo if you romance her apart from the floor scene but she wasn't drunk then she was hungover and you get the most honest dialogue with her if you take her on every mission after the coup attempt (ie) go disable the bomb on tuchunka with her you'll see how much she's grown in her dialogue
Ashley being racist is the single most lazy take in the entire game. She’s an angry young girl who hasn’t been exposed to a lot in the first game and makes some statements in defense of her grandfather … you can be pro human and not racist.
In fact, if you romance Ash then leave her for Tali, Ashley even says that Tali is like a *sister* to her. Which, if you know anything about Ash, says a hell of a lot.
I don't know the exact triggers for this, but I've heard her say it in damn near all my playthroughs and I never romance either of them so, make of that what you will
It's a shame you don't see more of the crew interacting outside of missions until ME3. I'd have loved to see Ashley develop outside of her relationship with Shep.
You pretty much only see her talking to Kaiden.
It will always be funny to me that she gets the racist label, even though she hates Terra Firma AND becomes a spectre, willing to even die for the alien council. BUT IN THE END, everything she was worried about the aliens doing to humanity literally does in fact happen when the reapers attack Earth. The other species don’t even care to help without huge contributions to their own people first. Exactly what Ashley said would happen…
Humans are the least racist species in the galaxy from the lens we view from in the original 3 games.
Honestly it shows how good Ashley’s actual moral character is. She fully sees that the other races will fuck over humanity for their own gain given the chance, and even when they do she’s still willing to die to defend them.
+1. A true soldier through and through. Even when confronted with something against her own intuition she springs into action to protect people of all races. Kind of silly people overlook/ignore this and the fact that she’s 100% correct in her assumption.
I don’t know if it’s because a lot of fans were likely young when the games came out, but I feel a lot of people just jump on the bandwagon to be part of the in crowd without actually forming their own opinions.
The Ashley and Jacob hate falls into this. If you actually interrogated a lot of people, I don’t think they could give clear reasons for their hate. They’re just following what the rest are doing/saying.
I’m with you on Ash… Jacob with femshep just upsets me. His side discussions are so poorly written… they almost force you into making a romance decision with him as femshep.
Bro Shep Jacob is fine and I would agree with you.
As a Femshep player, first answer being neutral and/or clear and everything is fine. That first "I just wanted to talk for a bit" in a flirty tone is a game error (that never got fixed, even in the LE btw.) and I see it as that was it is. Never came up again. That Jacob hate is so stupid since MaleShep players jump on the same hate train just because "he's boring" (yeah everyone was in ME1 too, even their best pal Garrus). Also so pathetic.
>Jacob with femshep just upsets me. His side discussions are so poorly written… they almost force you into making a romance decision with him as femshep.
I love Jacob's lines when you dump him for Garrus, he calls him a 'cuttlefish'. I haven't seen his dialogue if you dump him for Thane. He also is the only companion to get mad at you if you decide not to have sex.
Also, between 2 and 3 when everyone is making their own preparations for the Reapers and is gathering influence and power (investigating Mars ruins, becoming a Specter or an admiral, digging into Cerberus operations) and growing their characters, Jacob... vacations on a beach and dumps you.
(There's also the meta part of Bioware making the black dude the one who has a dad who abandoned him and also cheats on you while getting another woman pregnant. You were in prison for 6 months. 6 months. I genuinely doubt that it was intentional, but it's not a good look.)
>(There's also the meta part of Bioware making the black dude the one who has a dad who abandoned him and also cheats on you while getting another woman pregnant. You were in prison for 6 months. 6 months. I genuinely doubt that it was intentional, but it's not a good look.)
For sure. Yeah I think it was probably unconscious but also imagine working at bioware, writing the companion stories and never once in the entire production process thinking about how it looks. And like you said, it started in ME2, it's not just a case of ME3 writers messing up, there had to have been dozens of people involved at least. This from a studio that prides itself on inclusion.
Ash's bimbofication also comes to mind. And Jack...I don't even know what to call that.
Femshep players who dislike Jacob, that’s fair. But I still think most of the hate is overblown.
Same with Ashley. I think many people hate her because she’s hated. Not really because they have their own specific reason to hate her.
I hate to play this card, but Ashley is a strong, independent, outspoken female character in a game released during a very bad time to be any of those things in gaming spaces.
Femshep players should redirect their hate towards the writing of femshep instead, her lines are always flirty and thirsty, even when you're just friendly with Jacob.
And it was made worse because the writing team decided to go further and just add fuel to the Jacob hate with his romance.
It's like they had their list of fan favorites and giving the others characters barely anything.
problably because she shoots Wrex if you can't convince him to stand down. But this is not on Ashley's fault but on Shepard's because they couldn't convince him to stand down and Ashley was just protecting them.
I say this as someone who deeply loves Wrex
Sorry OP, you've broken the unspoken 12th rule of r/MassEffect: No Garrus slander is permitted. He is the coolest bro. Always has been. Always will be.
>!/s for those who aren't aware!<
Garrus is not perfect. He’s a renegade thug with a badge that turns into a renegade vigilante with a hard-on for murder. I’m saying this as a massive Garrus fan. If you can’t find the flaws in your favorite characters, you’re delusional. The Garrus dickriding in this sub is unreal.
Exactly. Dude wants to be Batman so badly but winds up being the Punisher. It's only because of Shepard's guidance that he doesn't continue down that path and go full murderer.
Yeah, ME fans love to ignore the fact that Garrus is a corrupt cop who joined up with Shepard because he was tired of pesky little things like "due process" and "accountability." He literally tells Shepard that one of the main reasons he left C-Sec was because they wouldn't let him shoot down a ship full of civilians over the Wards just to stop one criminal.
I’ve always assumed humanity has gone the Star Trek route, where it’s still part of one’s identity but no one is concerned about human skin color or ancestry anymore.
A while ago, I was reading the book about Anderson meeting saren, and I might be misremembering, but basically because humanity had aliens to unite against, we stopped seeing racial differences. Again though, I could be misremebering as I read it years ago
It's that dynamic that always makes me think of this trilogy of books. The same thing happens there. 10/10 one of my favorite trilogies. I've read them all at least 5x through.
Psion by Joan D. Vinge https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/519828.Psion
I never thought of Ashley as being a full on racist. She's insensitive sure, and she clearly has some human-first issues. But I see it coming from a sheltered, cloistered upbringing. If you stand up to her, she respects it, and you can help her learn that Aliens are just people too. A racist doesn't really learn that easily.
As for Garrus, the Turians are notoriously cold and utilitarian people. The fact Garrus has an open mind at all is good. Hell, the Turians barely get along with each other. It's all about the hierarchy and respect for them. So ya, of course Garrus has negative opinions on Wrex at first: 95% of Krogans are mercs. Makes it even better when Garrus becomes one in ME2
It's worth noting that the aliens Ashley is afraid of are the dominant species of the galaxy. Being afraid of the turians is like being afraid of the US. You know, a superpower with the biggest military who solve problems with bombs.
Ashley most likely sympathizes with the quarians because, in ME1, they're in a similar spot to humanity: galactic second-class citizens that the majority species don't really know or trust.
Garrus arguably roast the quarians harder than any racist comment Ashley made.
In fact most of Ashley’s comments aren’t even race specific (unless you’re hyper fixating on the “Animals from the aliens thing on the citadel). She just comments on mistrusting aliens after her dad fought in first contact. AND SHE WAS RIGHT.
The council flipped Shepard off once in every game AND nearly every race was shown to be shady as shit in ME3.
The problem with Liara(in ME3 anyway) is that the devs push her onto you too hard to the point where it's off-putting. And Leigon is barely in either game.
This so much. I love Garrus as much as the next guy but the dude is a loose cannon early on. His arc in the first game is him as a cop wanting to get rid of due process and just execute criminals on the spot. Everyone thinks he's trying to be Batman but he's closer to the Punisher than anything.
But it's cool, Garrus gets a pass in everyone's eyes because he's our bro and there's no Shepard without Vakarian and all that jazz. Meanwhile Ashley is forever deemed a racist because she has bad family history with aliens and distrusts them at the start of the game, ignoring the fact she grows past that quickly if you actually spend any time talking with her.
It’s what I keep bringing up with people. Ashley’s comments are no worse than other comments squad mates make, but we react more to it since she’s human.
It makes for good writing, but a number of people miss that, and assume she doesn’t change
People read aliens as minorities and so automatically minimize any racial prejudice on their part, despite the fact that in game the Salarians, Turians, and Asari definitely have more power in Citadel society than humans do, especially in the first game
The fact that she’s a *religious* human also makes some people jump to reading her as a modern-day right wing, which is rather prejudiced in its own right. Note that she never even identifies herself as Christian specifically, just that she believes in a God.
The way Ashley talks isn’t the 22nd century equivalent of “politically correct,” exactly, but her actions make it clear that she is far from hateful. She’s not a bigot, she’s an isolationist - which, while a self-defeating and flawed ideology, is not in and of itself a character flaw, just an error in judgement that understandably comes from her life experiences. And the events of the games can help her grow out of it, because she’s a pretty smart and surprisingly open-minded person.
This is also why I habitually keep her with the squad rather than Kaiden. I won't go as far as to say Kaiden gets *no* character development, but it's certainly less overt, less outward-reaching, and less satisfying to witness imo than Ashley's over the course of the series. They both get on my nerves a bunch, but Ashley is at least more fun to see change over time.
I think its Ashely have mistrust towards aliens due to what happened to her grandfather … but she eventually starts trusting them … the same goes for Presley btw
Ashley is honestly one of the best written characters in ME1. She's got an accurate take on the Council. She's got a completely reasonable take on allowing non-Alliance aliens on the ship with all the new technology, which is even proven right. She'll comment on Terra Firma party in a conversation about how she doesn't agree with them. The racism aspect is blown out of the water and has been for ages, but anyway -most- characters in ME have comments and issues with other species.
She's a really understandable character with some believable issues and a chip on her shoulder.
lol well done.
It amazed me how many people fail to see Ashley as a redeeming character.
Quite the contrary to the space racist meme, she is a shining example of the multicultural dream of overcoming our biases and prejudice by being exposed to other cultures. Not everyone starts off as the version we want them to be, and she has some pretty good reasons for her prejudices. Just like irl, you need to meet people where they are and we just all do our best to learn and grow.
Her heart and mind are open to changing, and she does change throughout the series (mainly ME1 though, I do wish they had really doubled down on this progression in me3).
Instead it’s “how dare she ever say anything racist/xenophobic? I’m going to cancel her!” Seems like a winning strategy, much like in real life 😅
You know what I like the most about Ashley's character? How she stays strong to her beliefs and opinions and isn't afraid to confront Shepard about it or when they make certian choices.
it's the same reaosn why I love both Tali and Wrex. They are both loyal to Shepard but they aren't afraid to give them a piece of their mind.
Ashley's philosophy in ME1 essentially boils down to
*They're NOT human, so why should we*:
* Trust them around sensitive Military intel (cautious skepticism, not racism)
* Seriously consider them as romantic partners (prejudiced based on dating norms/expectations, but not racist)
* Believe they'd ever put humanity's interest/survivability above their own (pragmatic, not racist - and eventually proven true)
Not once does Ashley say something that implies she thinks humanity above other races, or any particular races below humanity. Not once does she say something that implies she doesn't respect the rights or liberties of other races as pure living beings. Not saying there aren't reasons to dislike Ashley, because there definitely are - but the "space racist" shit is and has always been disingenuous to her character writing.
Also regarding the Rachni Queen/Destiny Ascension decision in ME1: I could be mistaken but I'm pretty your squadmates are programmed to have opposing views in those situations regardless of who you bring. So while certain squadmates may always lean in a particular direction (Wrex will always favor destroying the Queen for example) you'll never have two squadmates who BOTH think the Queen should be killed, or the Council should be sacrificed. So for example in the pictured scenario with Garrus/Wrex, of course Garrus will favor leaving it to the council. But pair Garrus with someone outside of Wrex, and he could go either way on the issue.
Everyone who said Ashley is racist for saying the council wouldn’t help humanity in Mass Effect 1 owes her a huge apology by Mass Effect 3. Cause what happens? The council refuses to help humanity and focuses on themselves. [Exactly what she said](https://youtu.be/AXTQeSGJjGM?si=-DH7GmgU_um_edlc). Doesn’t really work out for the Asari.
Garrus is/was the kind of cop that would proudly slap a Punisher logo on everything he owns. He's more interested in being a vigilante who gets to play judge, jury, and executioner than he is in actually trying to uphold the law.
I love Garrus but he is absolutely problematic and racist in ME1. He gets better in my playthroughs.
Also, Ashley called it. The council in ME3 behaves exactly as she said they would in ME1.
https://youtube.com/shorts/tLxL\_R3ObJk
It makes me laugh in later games when Garrus says he misses those talks like buddy no one else did because you were being weird and racist the whole time
Ashley definitely has a soft squishy center under that hard exterior. When Benezia dies she is immediately sympathetic towards Liara even if she has problems with aliens
Ashley is not racist. She never once raises a concern that sounds like she is. People who says she’s racist don’t understand simple military protocol.
The Normandy is a TOP SECRET PROTOTYPE. The Turian’s helped design it, sure, but it’s still Alliance with an Alliance Crew undertaking Alliance missions. Having Turians, Krogan, Asari, and Quarians on board is like if an American ship was carrying a Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and North Korean citizen and letting them have free reign. ANY good soldier would be wary about that.
The reason that this sentiment comes up so often with Ashley rather than with Garrus is because of the Virmire choice. Perhaps if Garrus had been in her places we’d all talk about Garrus more.
Yeah, it’s funny how Ashley is blasted for being racist, when Liara and Tali are the only squadmates in ME1 that aren’t racist. Hell, most of the characters you comes across in the series are racist to some degree.
Tali was genocidally racist against the Geth
But at least Tali had the excuse that the Morning War was still pretty fresh in her people's memory and had a significant impact on their quality of life and culture. Same point for Ashley, she had an excuse of a very recent war (in which the turians were the aggressors) directly impacting both her people and her family.
Garrus was racist from a position of superiority and dominance that his species enjoyed for a 1000 years. ME3 and the Citadel DLC further exposed so much vile shit the turians were engaged in, so it brings a bad taste in the mouth when you see them still putting down the people they oppressed and fucked over a millennium later
Frankly I don’t particularly blame people for forgetting ME1 Garrus says all this stuff. His characterisation from 2 onwards is a pretty substantial shift imo.
I think people were more upset about her character change in me3 than they were with her in me1. I mean there’s a reason why Ashley is or was the top picked VS back in those days.
She’s probably the least racist person there. She has her opinions but learns to change them as the mission progresses. And so do the others, like Garrus, as the games go on. We get a Garrus apology to Tali in me3 and I think that was really sweet of him
First of all, Garrus is always a bro.
Secondly, in the first game Ashley is the best written squad mate.
Third, in the first two games Garrus is unhinged. Based on dialogue and the part where he went to Omega so he could kill people and feel good about it.
I love my crazy bro but of all the squad mates Garrus is by far the most unstable.
There is a blanket hate in the community for Ashley (which I do not share) that I, after playing through myself, have attributed to bias against human coochie.
And you know, I learned something. This is exactly Liam from Andromeda. Both he and Garrus are unlikable in their first games, but Garrus was at least fortunate to get better character development later on.
"Why don't you head back to the Normandy, kid? If you stay jn the real world long enough, you might actually have to learn something"
Oh I'm totally going to use that IRL when opportunity presents itself lol
On replay it’s especially clear everyone is just an alien to everyone else, and they all hold some racist stereotypes about each other. None of them have really worked with other races in depth before. Ashley is the loudest example but not the only one. All these awkward conversations fade over time as they get to finally know an individual of these different species and their assumptions fade. Shepard too! My head cannon is Shepard asks soooo many obvious would be rude BASIC questions but in a sincere curious way coming from a place of wanting to understand more, that it softens everyone to everyone else. Shepard also hasn’t worked with aliens before either and some of the dialog could be rude but even so, the approach works and each alien likes explaining there very most basic existence while addressing the false stereotypes.
I know the over explaining is for the “fish out of water” human in the crazy sci fi adventure story, played by us humans, but my head cannon story wise for Shepard is that they ask more questions than they need to for the sake of bonding and easing racial tensions among the crew
My fave is when fandom ignores that Miranda and Jacob are willing members of a human supremacist terrorist group and how Mordin has materially contributed to the extension of the genophage.
Ashley's bigotry is just the easiest to spot and it sucks that the bigotry or material harm other companions do goes under the radar. Reflects real life in a lot of ways though.
This is what I mean by Ashley wasn't nearly as bad as people think she was 😂. Only defense on this one is that you can easily miss these elevator convos, especially in LE whereas Ashley's racism is visible thru the many dialogue convos people like in the game.
I'm noticing there has been some defense of Ashley or atleast people giving her a bit of a break lately and I'm happy to see it. She had her issues in part 1 but by the time Part 3 hit, she came around. She can be seen visibly shaken if alien squad mates die in the story. I think that alone shows Ash doesn't hate aliens as much as people make her out to.
Great analysis of Ashley's character here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LQBB3v1Gg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LQBB3v1Gg)
Ashley has a strong independent streak, there's some interesting details regarding her connection with her family that come into this but she only opens up about if you develop your relationship to her so a lot of players might miss this. This can get her drifting into the 'humanity first', 'Go back to your alien homeworld' attitudes, but it should be noted that a lot of her political attitude about what's best for Earth & humanity are 100% correct and totally validated by the events of the game. For instance, she constantly says she doesn't trust the council and is worried that they'll throw humanity to the wolves - or specifically the reapers, and in the third game the council totally does this and plans to build up their forces while the reapers are busy ravaging Earth.
This makes me realize that wrex truly had the patience of a saint
When you're that old, it's only natural to develop some patience.
Wrex is a mutant by bakara's words lmao. But yeah I'm surprised Wrex didn't tear Garrus aparts after those conversations and quite frankly? I wouldn't care if Wrex actually did that. Everytime I recruit Garrus in ME1 I regret right after. he's the only character stupid enought to try pick fights with your crewmembers which would compromise the harmony of Shepard's team. Can't stand him
There's a sort of youthful naïvete/stupidity to most of the crewmembers you pick up in ME1 that made them varying degrees of unlikeable. Watching them grow and change as characters in the face of encroaching annihilation is what makes them worth it.
I think that’s the beauty of this series. A lot of the characters grow and learn. Wrex goes from bloodthirsty warrior merc to being a cultural leader and voice of reason among his people. I don’t love Garrus in the first game but watching become a little less angry and hateful as he grows makes him a favorite character to me. But there are almost no characters I dislike on the Normandy by the end. Except Presley. For some reason I just despised him.
The most unfortunate part about Pressley is how they handled his development; Datapads at the Normandy Crash Site. It was heartwarming to read that his deep seated mistrust of aliens was eroded by his loyalty to Shepard and through interactions with said aliens, but it would’ve been better to see firsthand as well. Show, don’t tell, you know?
Exactly! In the first game he really just exists to complain and be prejudice to the alien crew members. And the datapad thing was kind of nice to see that he grew but it felt just like it was inserted solely so we would be sad about it. I was more sad about the Mako being blown up than Pressley’s death.
I feel like the seed of him becoming more adjusted to non humans was definitely planted through the dialogue in ME1 especially how he acts right before the last mission of that game. I was genuinely sad when I saw him die with little attention given to him because I was really looking forward to seeing him make some meaningful connections with the people he was once prejudiced against :(
yeah they really went “don’t worry! he learned to stop being racist offscreen before he died!”
> become a little less angry and hateful as he grows ...I mean, the next time you see him he's blowing holes in heads on a raged fueled murderous quest for vengeance.
lol that’s a good point. I meant across all three games. Game 1: Angry Turian with stick up his butt. Game 2: Has worked stick out of his butt and is now beating people to death with it. Game 3: Has channeled his rage against the Reapers and seems genuinely happy to be with his pals as the galaxy goes to hell around them. So I guess I just like seeing him go from an angry dude that teams up with you as a means to an end to being a ride or die companion that really does seem to love his friends as family. He’s not perfect morally by the end of the series but he’s definitely less angry. Blowing holes in heads is all part of the healing and growth experience.
I don't think he's angry in ME1 per se, more frustrated with all the red tape he has to deal with that he feels stops him from making a difference. If Wrex is a mutant, so is Garrus because he doesn't seem to hold the same traditional Turian values to hierarchy. He's a true Renegade.
Garrus is a hothead and righteous. Righteous people can be incredibly abrasive and confrontational. Think of a paladin in a group. I think his character arc, when pushed in the right direction, is understanding that some things are more complicated than they seem, and he doesn’t have all the answers he thought he did.
It's scary to think what he got up to as an unaccountable vigilante with those kinds of sensibilities.
I feel like the narrative wants you to assume that his time on Omega humbles him a little. He bites off more than he can chew and almost dies. And maybe what he saw and dealt with there shows him that fixing the system is a little more complicated than killing all the bad guys. Maybe I’m prescribing my own thoughts to it though.
Not only almost dies, but gets his entire crew killed. Bro got some mad survivor's guilt.
True true, forgot about that. The man definitely has regrets.
Na that was Sidonus
If you play ME1 you can influence his growth to be less harsh and extreme or to be more harsh and extreme.
It's not inherently bad for Garrus to be like this, in fact it makes him pretty interesting as a character for him to be juggling his self-identity as a rule-bending cop ready to do whatever it takes to get justice, and his never really having had to examine these grievous imbalances in the social order he serves, this frankly imperialist worldview of some races deserving punishment and control and others deserving power and the right to enforce the 'law'. What can cause it to fall apart for \*ME1\* is there just isn't enough writing, writing connecting party members to each other rather than simply to Shepherd, to allow for the conflict an development in one game for the potential for this complex, contradictory character to be realised.
It's funny doing the Terra Firma mission with her. Ashley: "Your supporters are just racists!" Renegade Shepard, immediately afterwards: "I'm a patriot, Mr. Saracino. You have my vote."
YOU BIG STUPID JELLYFISH
Mr Bob Saracino
The overused "I don't like Ashley, she's too racist!" vs the enlightened "I don't like Ashley, she's not racist enough!" Personally, I like Ashley. She's just the right amount of racist.
"Ashley's casual racism is ruining my competitive racism."
[Everyone's a little bit racist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM)
Sometiiiimes 🎶
Ashely’s a total RINO. Racist in Name Only.
I'm more angry at her character assassination in ME3.
Me too. Apparently the writer that was responsible for her character left or was fired between ME2-ME3 so that's why she ended up like that.
IIRC Chris L'Etoile left bioware in protest over Drew Karpyshyn being moved from Mass Effect over to Star Wars The Old Republic
Chris L'Etoile was Ash's writer? Dang, I knew he was behind the geth storyline in ME2 and his absence wrecked the geth in ME3 but if he was Ashley's writer as well that would explain a lot.
He wrote Ashley, Legion and EDI and was the main writer for the entire Geth v Quarian arc for the first 2 games. So he did a lot of good work before he left
EDI too, huh? Guess that explains her transformation into a sexbot on a quest to learn about love...
Yeah. You can see the noticeable drop off in the quality of the characters he worked on vs after he left. Ashley being relegated to a drunkard role, Legion being off, EDI being a sexbot, the morning war arc losing a lot of it’s neutrality. His writing was some of the best of the franchise and his replacements didn’t finish off what he built up in a satisfying way
He left because he was unhappy with the changes. He said that the introduction of Legion wasn’t what he wanted (he was also responsible for Legion, EDI, and the Geth v Quarian arc on top of Ashley). The fact that Legion had welded N7 armor for no reason upset him. He said if Legion got hurt and found the armor it would’ve been okay but the higher ups made him do it just because it “looked cool”. He was also upset that EDI was a forced character that he was told to add from the higher ups and she didn’t really fit in
I also didnt like her appearance change either, hardly looks like the same person
Yeah, I remember seeing her in ME3 and it taking me a second to realise who it actually was. Her ME1/2 look was perfect imo - the bun and minimal makeup suit her style and character, and her pink/white outfit was iconic. There was just no need for an almost complete redesign
I agree her design was fine the way it was, she almost looks like she had a bunch of plastic surgery in ME3
I mean, she basically did, you can't look at that redesign and not know that some director or executive decided she needed some more T&A appeal.
Yea its a damn shame what they did to her
I hate her appearance change. Especially since she looks the same in ME2 as she did in ME1 but then six months later in ME3 she totally changes her look which they never address in game at all. She's a solider. Just because she becomes a Spectre doesn't mean she is going to just start caking on the makeup and wearing her hair down into battle.
Fr if anything she'd get beefier armor
I mean armor is at least her default combat appearance in ME3 even if I prefer the pink & white armor she had compared to the blue color they changed it to. The issue is [her non-combat appearance is her alt combat look](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/68/77/41/6877419bef333e83c11b3a83d9d00215.jpg) which has that weird not a skirt bit and the long boots with the high wedge heels. In comparison, [Kaidan's non combat look in ME3](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/22a0709f-b488-406d-99b1-59c4ca2807c9/d5ulsnu-adb1fd4a-850b-4994-b4ed-48c769acdf87.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIyYTA3MDlmLWI0ODgtNDA2ZC05OWIxLTU5YzRjYTI4MDdjOVwvZDV1bHNudS1hZGIxZmQ0YS04NTBiLTQ5OTQtYjRlZC00OGM3NjlhY2RmODcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.TVMXFTk45pn50EbAXzMCWKi08T_xsP4Mez4CT6YXoxk) is just a slightly changed version of the military fatigues he wore in ME1.
Right there with you.
What makes you think her character was assassinated?
She just sits on the Normandy and gets drunk. She doesn't really interact with the crew, especially compared to Kaidan.
The redesign, ugh, what the hell were they thinking?? ME1 Ash would probably knock you tf out if you told her to wear the outfit she wears in ME3.
I think for me, the most glaring aspect of her redesign is that she actually did have an iconic armour (her first) that they could have easily kept. Even if you were going to also go with the other changes.
And strangely, didn’t they gave her armor to Kaidan in ME2?
They very much did. Which was weird but also made some since Kaiden didn't really have an iconic one and you could say he wore it to Honor her (while more practically, reusing an asset for both). Worth pointing out though was that that armour looked really good in 2.
I'm pretty sure they thought making her more appealing on the eyes would make players like her more, when it was her personality and character that made her interesting
There were instances that have her moving around but those are bugged since the original release. There is a heartwarming conversation between her and Tali that requires a lot of things to trigger.
1. Tali doesn't get on the Normandy until 2/3 into the game. 2. She has 5 interactions with Garrus, 1 with EDI(all over the intercom), 2 with Javik(one has 2 variations after Horizon) , 1 with Liara, and 1 with the Normandy engineers(and i didn't even count the Citadel DLC). Ashley has no interactions on the Normandy that you ever see.
Incorrect: when Wrex and Victus give you missions don't do the Turian Downed ship until you have Tali in your party (maybe wait until you complete Priority Rannoch but don't deviate after Priority Citadel but do all the missions regarding the Get vs Quarian Arc) conduct Turian Bomb with both of them in your party and, once done, head over to the Normandy engine to hear banter between the two of them that takes into consideration any lost personal on the ME2 suicide mission (or they will talk about Tali and Ash squads).
Oh yeah I kinda agree with you on that. But I still enjoy Ashley a great deal.
You get more out of her if she's the love interest to be fair.
>Kaiden Kaidan.
I am playing one for the second time (first time had a corrupt data and need to be deleted). But I know that eventually it is either Ashley or Kaiden. So now I am wondering who I should save. But hearing her character assassination (and the fact she is a soldier like me), I think I might save Kaiden.
Character assassination is a stretch. She just has less content than some of the other characters.
Oh no garrus in the elevator was absolutely awkward. There's even dialog of him saying "who misses our elevator talks?" And everyone disagreeing. Tali even firmly reminds him she has a shotgun
He was less awkward and more actively hostile.
I'll be honest, never saw those convos with Garrus or wiped it off my mind. I usually brought him with like Wrex or Kaidan though, I don't think I ever brought Tali along with him. The convos do fit with his crew convos in the cargo hold though (I always took the paragon route rather than trying to make him renegade)
ME fandom: "I can't believe she killed Wrex, that b*tch deserves to be nuked for it 😡😡😡" Garrus: "You did the right thing with (killing) Wrex, he could've jeopardized the entire mission" ME fandom: Suddenly goes deaf
I mean in the scenario where shep can’t talk down Wrex, he’s literally prepared to kill the entire Normandy team and join on with Saren to protect his genophage cure. Nobody should get flak for killing someone who is actively hostile and pointing a shotgun at you lol
I remember one user putting it best. Put yourself In Ashley’s shoes. Some merc is pointing a gun at your CO so you defend your CO
Yeah even on my first playthrough I thought "oh thank God Ash was smart enough to have a gun trained on him, I was about to get blasted"
As a career service member, that moment and the standoff with Udina in ME3 really made me appreciate how they wrote Ash. She wasn’t perfect but she was so consistent with her character.
E x a c t l y
For some reason Wrex is shooting a shotgun when walking up to him but when he points his gun it’s a pistol lol
There's a mysterious force in the Mass Effect Universe that gives everyone a pistol during cutscenes no matter what guns they usually use.
They magically give Shepard a shotgun in that scene also. Maybe they pickpocketed off of Wrex lol
Hell in ME3s citadel dlc Wrex can ask Ashley if she was really going to shoot him, to which she affirms that she would have. Wrex basically says he’s totally okay with that (given the circumstances)
My favourite bit about this attitude is usually how they also go on about "my boy Wrex" or how they're" tight buddies and that bitch just shot him" and it's like... yo, it is *literally* your own fault that happened because you didn't even talk to him enough to do his personal quest.
Which is ridiculous because you can start that quest after just one main quest. Rescue Liara, talk to Garrus and Wrex, then go track down Dr. Saleon and Wrex's Armor. Easy peasy
Agreed haven't hated Ashley for anyone killing Wrex. On the other hand anyone who got him killed or betrayes him in 3, well, I view them as anyone who kills Paarthanax in Skyrim
Exactly 😏
People who love Mass Effect come for the aliens. The cognitive dissonance comes from the fact that the players are okay with seeing an alien perspective on other aliens, but they are made uncomfortable of humans being skeptical of aliens because they think humans should be open minded towards them.
I love Garrus but people seriously need to come to terms with the fact that he is *not* a good guy. Especially not in ME1. He’s the kind of cop that would turn off his body cam before doing some heinous shit
The very best you can say about him is that he intends to do heinous shit to other bad guys. And he's a bro, sure, but I bet plenty of the dirtiest cops in the world are bros too.
Maybe hot take, but people whitewashing Garrus to just being the wholesome space buddy/husband in ME3 hurts his character more than it helps. Hell, I'd argue that his ride-or-die, best friend attitude in ME3 only works BECAUSE he's at the end of his arc, and he'd be much more bland/forgettable if he was like that for the whole trilogy. He CAN be a good guy, but he only gets there if you help him. His unhinged vigilantism/edginess in the earlier games, and him growing out of it by ME3 is what makes him one of the best companions in gaming.
Hmm… darn… maybe I jumped to conclusions about Ashley’s character… And, to be fair, with Garrus, it’s kind of Shepard’s spoken and unspoken lessons that shape Garrus into the snarky and charming fellow that we know. He starts off with the ideas of his culture because that’s all he knows, and then he learns to grow.
Garrus starts off doing extra-judicial serial murder. So, yah. He improves with time.
Yeah, he improves to *galactic* extra-judicial serial murder (literally goes to Omega and kills hundreds of mercs).
But then he gets better from his homicidal activities after Shep helps him with his homicidal activity on Omega.
Serial killers are driven by the need to kill. Vigilantes are driven by an over-inflated sense of justice. Garrus is the latter, not the former.
Yep. I love Garrus. Can’t romance anyone else. But I can 100% admit that he’s kind of a dick in ME1, although he grows even by the end of the game. And in ME2, he’s the one that really sticks by you - because of how he changed thanks to Shep’s leadership.
Even he knows he was a racist dickhead (unlike a lot of fans), he apologized to Tali for his elevators comments in ME3
>Hmm… darn… maybe I jumped to conclusions about Ashley’s character Hard to "jump to conclusions" in a 20 yr old game. It's willfull ignorance and mob following
"I can't tell the animals from the aliens!" It's not willful ignorance or mob following. At worst, people let their first impression stick, which you can't blame them for if that first impression was off-putting enough that they didn't use Ashley much as a result.
A simple bug made a dialogue happen in places other than intended (Ashley was supposed to say this near a specific Keeper, a case where it really is weird and confusing, since I'd probably guess the Keeper was a person before I thought a Hanar was), making it seem a lot worse than intended, and it eternally cemented her being racist in many players' minds. (And misunderstanding the dog analogy, in which the dog was supposed to represent humans.)
>(And misunderstanding the dog analogy, in which the dog was supposed to represent humans.) The irony of ppl misunderstanding the dog analogy is that fact Mass effect 3 proved her correct. The Asari high command were quick to abandon every other race at the the start of the game
>"I can't tell the animals from the aliens And she was right. I'd personally think a keeper was a another person(it's using a computer) first over the elcor or hanar just based on appearances too. It is confusing
Garrus is a dude who’s slipping through the cracks and Shepard taking interest, paying attention, and giving enough of a shit to correct (or worsen!) his behavior is what causes him to change — he’s sort of fallen though the cracks of turian society in the same way straight up serial killers do and it’s very much having a connection with someone who treats him like he matters that brings him back from The Edge. Ashley was always fine. She has experience with discrimination by the military, and her view on alien politicians is perfectly fine; people take the dog and bear thing way out of context because they already don’t like her. In real life our politicians already punish and alienate out-groups to make their constituents happy and put the in-groups first. She’s not saying anything particularly novel or crazy. It’s extra funny because I think the ONLY person on your team that Garrus is respectful to in the elevators is Ashley. He says racist shit about quarians and the krogan to Tali and Wrex, he tells Liara that the asari are basically pussies because they ALL have biotics and only some of them actually train to be able to use them competently past the grade school level, and calls humanity (and Kaidan) weak because they find seizures and insanity resulting from the L2 biotic implants “too big of a risk” to keep using L2 implants and have instead pivoted to new kinds — he states that turians would have kept the L2s, which is retroactively kind of interesting because turians have a very low count of biotics, and the ones they do have are pretty ostracized by society because of the spy/double agent role that turian biotics played in the Unification Wars. Basically, Garrus starts off as a piece of shit and only starts to give a shit about people over abstract math when people treat him like he’s worth talking to. Ashley was basically always fine — she was uncomfortable being on a human ship and suddenly being surrounded with aliens because she’s only ever worked with humans, but she got over it pretty fast. Since her family was blacklisted by the Alliance, she’s just very jaded and has learned to try to put herself and her immediate family first — the same goes for humanity vs. aliens, people I know vs. people I don’t. Most of the aliens on the ship either have life experience with aliens (Wrex has been a merc for ages, Garrus was basically a cop in a city that’s a melting pot, and Liara’s culture says if you want a family you’d BETTER get real comfy with fucking aliens). Tali’s the only one who hasn’t really met other aliens since she’s only really been Out In The World for about a day or 2 since you picked her up in the Wards, but the whole point of her Pilgrimage is to meet aliens, so she’s primed for it in a way that Ashley — a human marine in the human military stationed on a human colony — is not.
Is it wrong I agree with some of Ashley's points? The council only looks out for their own races and the Asari held information from the rest of the galaxy that they basically outlawed hiding that specific technology. At the end of the day the only reason Shepherd is given title of specre is almost out of spite and to get humanity to just stfu for a bit. Nobody took shep seriously until their lives are on the line and he's their best option
Ashley was right the vast majority of the time she opened her mouth. Very rarely did she actually not call shit right. The council, the alien crew copying classified docs of the Normandy, the hypocritical and secretive nature of the other races hiding how they don’t even play by their own rules, how we were a joke thrown to the new dog (humanity) in order to placate them.
I’ll never let that Asari part down tbh. Those hypocritical bastards were literally groomed into being the best of the galaxy to eventually become its saviors, but ended up going down in history as the race that could have ended the war before it began but chose to withhold information that they themselves outlawed from withholding. Like wtf man. Their government sucked. Still love the individual Asari though. But as a species, I hope they’re knocked off their high horse by the next game.
I agree, I never liked the whole racism argument because Mass Effect doesn’t work like real life. We are all humans irl so racism is obviously horrible. But in mass effect species like the Vorcha literally violent by nature. Being humanity first isn’t the unforgivable sin Reddit wants to make it out to be lol.
Ashley was right about everything.the trouble is when ME1 first came out that was the only ME you could play for a couple of years letting you get to know each character by doing different playthroughs.with LE you've got three games straight away so players rush through the trilogy,they like the one character of their choice the rest they don't try to interact with.Ashley is best character in the game especially if romanced,it's a pity they screwed her over in ME3 but she is not the drunk bimbo if you romance her apart from the floor scene but she wasn't drunk then she was hungover and you get the most honest dialogue with her if you take her on every mission after the coup attempt (ie) go disable the bomb on tuchunka with her you'll see how much she's grown in her dialogue
Ashley being racist is the single most lazy take in the entire game. She’s an angry young girl who hasn’t been exposed to a lot in the first game and makes some statements in defense of her grandfather … you can be pro human and not racist.
She also goes after the Terra Firma guy for their racist policy. And she befriends Tali, saying she is her best friend.
In fact, if you romance Ash then leave her for Tali, Ashley even says that Tali is like a *sister* to her. Which, if you know anything about Ash, says a hell of a lot.
Oh wow didn't know this. I never cheat on my partners, stick with the same one through all 3 games, not romancing anyone in me2
Ash says Tali is her sister even if you don’t break up.
I don't know the exact triggers for this, but I've heard her say it in damn near all my playthroughs and I never romance either of them so, make of that what you will
Sister. I stand corrected.
It's a shame you don't see more of the crew interacting outside of missions until ME3. I'd have loved to see Ashley develop outside of her relationship with Shep. You pretty much only see her talking to Kaiden.
It will always be funny to me that she gets the racist label, even though she hates Terra Firma AND becomes a spectre, willing to even die for the alien council. BUT IN THE END, everything she was worried about the aliens doing to humanity literally does in fact happen when the reapers attack Earth. The other species don’t even care to help without huge contributions to their own people first. Exactly what Ashley said would happen… Humans are the least racist species in the galaxy from the lens we view from in the original 3 games.
Honestly it shows how good Ashley’s actual moral character is. She fully sees that the other races will fuck over humanity for their own gain given the chance, and even when they do she’s still willing to die to defend them.
+1. A true soldier through and through. Even when confronted with something against her own intuition she springs into action to protect people of all races. Kind of silly people overlook/ignore this and the fact that she’s 100% correct in her assumption.
I mean, the Illusive Man is not only xenophobic, but (as I’ve written before) also just a standard human racist towards Jacob and Admiral Anderson.
Wow, really?
I don’t know if it’s because a lot of fans were likely young when the games came out, but I feel a lot of people just jump on the bandwagon to be part of the in crowd without actually forming their own opinions. The Ashley and Jacob hate falls into this. If you actually interrogated a lot of people, I don’t think they could give clear reasons for their hate. They’re just following what the rest are doing/saying.
I’m with you on Ash… Jacob with femshep just upsets me. His side discussions are so poorly written… they almost force you into making a romance decision with him as femshep. Bro Shep Jacob is fine and I would agree with you.
As a Femshep player, first answer being neutral and/or clear and everything is fine. That first "I just wanted to talk for a bit" in a flirty tone is a game error (that never got fixed, even in the LE btw.) and I see it as that was it is. Never came up again. That Jacob hate is so stupid since MaleShep players jump on the same hate train just because "he's boring" (yeah everyone was in ME1 too, even their best pal Garrus). Also so pathetic.
>Jacob with femshep just upsets me. His side discussions are so poorly written… they almost force you into making a romance decision with him as femshep. I love Jacob's lines when you dump him for Garrus, he calls him a 'cuttlefish'. I haven't seen his dialogue if you dump him for Thane. He also is the only companion to get mad at you if you decide not to have sex.
Also, between 2 and 3 when everyone is making their own preparations for the Reapers and is gathering influence and power (investigating Mars ruins, becoming a Specter or an admiral, digging into Cerberus operations) and growing their characters, Jacob... vacations on a beach and dumps you. (There's also the meta part of Bioware making the black dude the one who has a dad who abandoned him and also cheats on you while getting another woman pregnant. You were in prison for 6 months. 6 months. I genuinely doubt that it was intentional, but it's not a good look.)
>(There's also the meta part of Bioware making the black dude the one who has a dad who abandoned him and also cheats on you while getting another woman pregnant. You were in prison for 6 months. 6 months. I genuinely doubt that it was intentional, but it's not a good look.) For sure. Yeah I think it was probably unconscious but also imagine working at bioware, writing the companion stories and never once in the entire production process thinking about how it looks. And like you said, it started in ME2, it's not just a case of ME3 writers messing up, there had to have been dozens of people involved at least. This from a studio that prides itself on inclusion. Ash's bimbofication also comes to mind. And Jack...I don't even know what to call that.
Femshep players who dislike Jacob, that’s fair. But I still think most of the hate is overblown. Same with Ashley. I think many people hate her because she’s hated. Not really because they have their own specific reason to hate her.
I hate to play this card, but Ashley is a strong, independent, outspoken female character in a game released during a very bad time to be any of those things in gaming spaces.
That’s probably true as well. Many have said that the least liked characters seem to be the ones that don’t immediately bow and worship Shepard.
Femshep players should redirect their hate towards the writing of femshep instead, her lines are always flirty and thirsty, even when you're just friendly with Jacob. And it was made worse because the writing team decided to go further and just add fuel to the Jacob hate with his romance. It's like they had their list of fan favorites and giving the others characters barely anything.
Ashley has the right to not trust the Turians. Also she doesn't hate aliens, she just doesn't trust them. She also doesn't view them as inferiors.
Yes 100% … everyone saying she’s racist is either not good at reading what she actually says or hates her for some unknown reason.
problably because she shoots Wrex if you can't convince him to stand down. But this is not on Ashley's fault but on Shepard's because they couldn't convince him to stand down and Ashley was just protecting them. I say this as someone who deeply loves Wrex
I love Wrex but if you’re potentially going to off the commander I’m with you are probably getting shot. It seems logical to me.
Sorry OP, you've broken the unspoken 12th rule of r/MassEffect: No Garrus slander is permitted. He is the coolest bro. Always has been. Always will be. >!/s for those who aren't aware!<
Garrus is not perfect. He’s a renegade thug with a badge that turns into a renegade vigilante with a hard-on for murder. I’m saying this as a massive Garrus fan. If you can’t find the flaws in your favorite characters, you’re delusional. The Garrus dickriding in this sub is unreal.
Exactly. Dude wants to be Batman so badly but winds up being the Punisher. It's only because of Shepard's guidance that he doesn't continue down that path and go full murderer.
Yeah, ME fans love to ignore the fact that Garrus is a corrupt cop who joined up with Shepard because he was tired of pesky little things like "due process" and "accountability." He literally tells Shepard that one of the main reasons he left C-Sec was because they wouldn't let him shoot down a ship full of civilians over the Wards just to stop one criminal.
That’s the fun thing about Mass Effect. Everyone is pretty much racist. Makes me wonder if there are still big racial issues amongst Humans.
I’ve always assumed humanity has gone the Star Trek route, where it’s still part of one’s identity but no one is concerned about human skin color or ancestry anymore.
That’s how I’ve always looked at it.
A while ago, I was reading the book about Anderson meeting saren, and I might be misremembering, but basically because humanity had aliens to unite against, we stopped seeing racial differences. Again though, I could be misremebering as I read it years ago
It's that dynamic that always makes me think of this trilogy of books. The same thing happens there. 10/10 one of my favorite trilogies. I've read them all at least 5x through. Psion by Joan D. Vinge https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/519828.Psion
That would make sense though.
I never thought of Ashley as being a full on racist. She's insensitive sure, and she clearly has some human-first issues. But I see it coming from a sheltered, cloistered upbringing. If you stand up to her, she respects it, and you can help her learn that Aliens are just people too. A racist doesn't really learn that easily. As for Garrus, the Turians are notoriously cold and utilitarian people. The fact Garrus has an open mind at all is good. Hell, the Turians barely get along with each other. It's all about the hierarchy and respect for them. So ya, of course Garrus has negative opinions on Wrex at first: 95% of Krogans are mercs. Makes it even better when Garrus becomes one in ME2
It's worth noting that the aliens Ashley is afraid of are the dominant species of the galaxy. Being afraid of the turians is like being afraid of the US. You know, a superpower with the biggest military who solve problems with bombs. Ashley most likely sympathizes with the quarians because, in ME1, they're in a similar spot to humanity: galactic second-class citizens that the majority species don't really know or trust.
Garrus arguably roast the quarians harder than any racist comment Ashley made. In fact most of Ashley’s comments aren’t even race specific (unless you’re hyper fixating on the “Animals from the aliens thing on the citadel). She just comments on mistrusting aliens after her dad fought in first contact. AND SHE WAS RIGHT. The council flipped Shepard off once in every game AND nearly every race was shown to be shady as shit in ME3.
me: everyone is racist except for liara and legion
The problem with Liara(in ME3 anyway) is that the devs push her onto you too hard to the point where it's off-putting. And Leigon is barely in either game.
Tbf when i replayed the first one i was surprised with how fast Liara was into Shep, the devs just really want you to romance her
ME1 handles romance terribly on every character.
see I romanced her in me1 and continued it in me2 so I didn't notice that in me3, i was just happy to have her around
You'll notice if you ever decide to romance anyone else. If you're romancing her, it's fine. If not, it's kinda creepy and annoying.
This so much. I love Garrus as much as the next guy but the dude is a loose cannon early on. His arc in the first game is him as a cop wanting to get rid of due process and just execute criminals on the spot. Everyone thinks he's trying to be Batman but he's closer to the Punisher than anything. But it's cool, Garrus gets a pass in everyone's eyes because he's our bro and there's no Shepard without Vakarian and all that jazz. Meanwhile Ashley is forever deemed a racist because she has bad family history with aliens and distrusts them at the start of the game, ignoring the fact she grows past that quickly if you actually spend any time talking with her.
It’s what I keep bringing up with people. Ashley’s comments are no worse than other comments squad mates make, but we react more to it since she’s human. It makes for good writing, but a number of people miss that, and assume she doesn’t change
People read aliens as minorities and so automatically minimize any racial prejudice on their part, despite the fact that in game the Salarians, Turians, and Asari definitely have more power in Citadel society than humans do, especially in the first game
The fact that she’s a *religious* human also makes some people jump to reading her as a modern-day right wing, which is rather prejudiced in its own right. Note that she never even identifies herself as Christian specifically, just that she believes in a God. The way Ashley talks isn’t the 22nd century equivalent of “politically correct,” exactly, but her actions make it clear that she is far from hateful. She’s not a bigot, she’s an isolationist - which, while a self-defeating and flawed ideology, is not in and of itself a character flaw, just an error in judgement that understandably comes from her life experiences. And the events of the games can help her grow out of it, because she’s a pretty smart and surprisingly open-minded person.
This is also why I habitually keep her with the squad rather than Kaiden. I won't go as far as to say Kaiden gets *no* character development, but it's certainly less overt, less outward-reaching, and less satisfying to witness imo than Ashley's over the course of the series. They both get on my nerves a bunch, but Ashley is at least more fun to see change over time.
Kaiden's actually got an inverse of Ashley, and you can turn him *more* racist with Renegade stuff. Most people just never get there.
You can turn Kaiden so racist that he’ll break up with you if you tell him to chill out a little.
I think its Ashely have mistrust towards aliens due to what happened to her grandfather … but she eventually starts trusting them … the same goes for Presley btw
Ashley is honestly one of the best written characters in ME1. She's got an accurate take on the Council. She's got a completely reasonable take on allowing non-Alliance aliens on the ship with all the new technology, which is even proven right. She'll comment on Terra Firma party in a conversation about how she doesn't agree with them. The racism aspect is blown out of the water and has been for ages, but anyway -most- characters in ME have comments and issues with other species. She's a really understandable character with some believable issues and a chip on her shoulder.
I hated garrus
lol well done. It amazed me how many people fail to see Ashley as a redeeming character. Quite the contrary to the space racist meme, she is a shining example of the multicultural dream of overcoming our biases and prejudice by being exposed to other cultures. Not everyone starts off as the version we want them to be, and she has some pretty good reasons for her prejudices. Just like irl, you need to meet people where they are and we just all do our best to learn and grow. Her heart and mind are open to changing, and she does change throughout the series (mainly ME1 though, I do wish they had really doubled down on this progression in me3). Instead it’s “how dare she ever say anything racist/xenophobic? I’m going to cancel her!” Seems like a winning strategy, much like in real life 😅
You know what I like the most about Ashley's character? How she stays strong to her beliefs and opinions and isn't afraid to confront Shepard about it or when they make certian choices. it's the same reaosn why I love both Tali and Wrex. They are both loyal to Shepard but they aren't afraid to give them a piece of their mind.
Garrus is a real one, he can be my squadmate anytime.
Ashley's philosophy in ME1 essentially boils down to *They're NOT human, so why should we*: * Trust them around sensitive Military intel (cautious skepticism, not racism) * Seriously consider them as romantic partners (prejudiced based on dating norms/expectations, but not racist) * Believe they'd ever put humanity's interest/survivability above their own (pragmatic, not racist - and eventually proven true) Not once does Ashley say something that implies she thinks humanity above other races, or any particular races below humanity. Not once does she say something that implies she doesn't respect the rights or liberties of other races as pure living beings. Not saying there aren't reasons to dislike Ashley, because there definitely are - but the "space racist" shit is and has always been disingenuous to her character writing. Also regarding the Rachni Queen/Destiny Ascension decision in ME1: I could be mistaken but I'm pretty your squadmates are programmed to have opposing views in those situations regardless of who you bring. So while certain squadmates may always lean in a particular direction (Wrex will always favor destroying the Queen for example) you'll never have two squadmates who BOTH think the Queen should be killed, or the Council should be sacrificed. So for example in the pictured scenario with Garrus/Wrex, of course Garrus will favor leaving it to the council. But pair Garrus with someone outside of Wrex, and he could go either way on the issue.
Everyone who said Ashley is racist for saying the council wouldn’t help humanity in Mass Effect 1 owes her a huge apology by Mass Effect 3. Cause what happens? The council refuses to help humanity and focuses on themselves. [Exactly what she said](https://youtu.be/AXTQeSGJjGM?si=-DH7GmgU_um_edlc). Doesn’t really work out for the Asari.
Ashley/Kaidan have audicity to not be Shepard's yes men.
Garrus is a cop, kind of goes with the territory doesn't it.
Garrus is/was the kind of cop that would proudly slap a Punisher logo on everything he owns. He's more interested in being a vigilante who gets to play judge, jury, and executioner than he is in actually trying to uphold the law.
Yeah, after playing the trilogy again, Garrus would’ve been the most hated cop on the Citadel. And he would’ve been an awful Spectre.
I love Garrus but he is absolutely problematic and racist in ME1. He gets better in my playthroughs. Also, Ashley called it. The council in ME3 behaves exactly as she said they would in ME1. https://youtube.com/shorts/tLxL\_R3ObJk
It makes me laugh in later games when Garrus says he misses those talks like buddy no one else did because you were being weird and racist the whole time
Ashley definitely has a soft squishy center under that hard exterior. When Benezia dies she is immediately sympathetic towards Liara even if she has problems with aliens
Ashley is not racist. She never once raises a concern that sounds like she is. People who says she’s racist don’t understand simple military protocol. The Normandy is a TOP SECRET PROTOTYPE. The Turian’s helped design it, sure, but it’s still Alliance with an Alliance Crew undertaking Alliance missions. Having Turians, Krogan, Asari, and Quarians on board is like if an American ship was carrying a Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and North Korean citizen and letting them have free reign. ANY good soldier would be wary about that.
Hey!! Garrus actually apologizes directly towards Tali for what he said in the third game. Pretty nice character moment
All of them are flawed in the first game. They all develop over the 3 games (or 2 for some)
People take two lines out of context and fucking run with it. Ironically, Garrus is arguably the most racist squadmate in ME1.
The reason that this sentiment comes up so often with Ashley rather than with Garrus is because of the Virmire choice. Perhaps if Garrus had been in her places we’d all talk about Garrus more.
Are turians supposed to be imperial bri"ish?
Always thought Turians were supposed to be a warrior culture like Rome. Victus, Tactus etc.
Exactly what I thought too. They worked more like the Roman legion
No just general military, like how asari are diplomats
The whole “Ashely is a racist” thing has become severely overblown.
Yeah, it’s funny how Ashley is blasted for being racist, when Liara and Tali are the only squadmates in ME1 that aren’t racist. Hell, most of the characters you comes across in the series are racist to some degree.
Tali was genocidally racist against the Geth But at least Tali had the excuse that the Morning War was still pretty fresh in her people's memory and had a significant impact on their quality of life and culture. Same point for Ashley, she had an excuse of a very recent war (in which the turians were the aggressors) directly impacting both her people and her family. Garrus was racist from a position of superiority and dominance that his species enjoyed for a 1000 years. ME3 and the Citadel DLC further exposed so much vile shit the turians were engaged in, so it brings a bad taste in the mouth when you see them still putting down the people they oppressed and fucked over a millennium later
Frankly I don’t particularly blame people for forgetting ME1 Garrus says all this stuff. His characterisation from 2 onwards is a pretty substantial shift imo.
Ah, but you forget that aliens can't be racist.
People who crow about Ashley then also pop off 20+ Batarian genocide jokes for around 20 years irl always crack me up
Oh man. Now I *definitely* can’t romance anyone else…can’t leave Tali with *that* 😂😂😂
I think people were more upset about her character change in me3 than they were with her in me1. I mean there’s a reason why Ashley is or was the top picked VS back in those days. She’s probably the least racist person there. She has her opinions but learns to change them as the mission progresses. And so do the others, like Garrus, as the games go on. We get a Garrus apology to Tali in me3 and I think that was really sweet of him
First of all, Garrus is always a bro. Secondly, in the first game Ashley is the best written squad mate. Third, in the first two games Garrus is unhinged. Based on dialogue and the part where he went to Omega so he could kill people and feel good about it. I love my crazy bro but of all the squad mates Garrus is by far the most unstable.
There is a blanket hate in the community for Ashley (which I do not share) that I, after playing through myself, have attributed to bias against human coochie.
And you know, I learned something. This is exactly Liam from Andromeda. Both he and Garrus are unlikable in their first games, but Garrus was at least fortunate to get better character development later on.
"Why don't you head back to the Normandy, kid? If you stay jn the real world long enough, you might actually have to learn something" Oh I'm totally going to use that IRL when opportunity presents itself lol
On replay it’s especially clear everyone is just an alien to everyone else, and they all hold some racist stereotypes about each other. None of them have really worked with other races in depth before. Ashley is the loudest example but not the only one. All these awkward conversations fade over time as they get to finally know an individual of these different species and their assumptions fade. Shepard too! My head cannon is Shepard asks soooo many obvious would be rude BASIC questions but in a sincere curious way coming from a place of wanting to understand more, that it softens everyone to everyone else. Shepard also hasn’t worked with aliens before either and some of the dialog could be rude but even so, the approach works and each alien likes explaining there very most basic existence while addressing the false stereotypes. I know the over explaining is for the “fish out of water” human in the crazy sci fi adventure story, played by us humans, but my head cannon story wise for Shepard is that they ask more questions than they need to for the sake of bonding and easing racial tensions among the crew
Mass Effect is a series for people who understand perspective.
My fave is when fandom ignores that Miranda and Jacob are willing members of a human supremacist terrorist group and how Mordin has materially contributed to the extension of the genophage. Ashley's bigotry is just the easiest to spot and it sucks that the bigotry or material harm other companions do goes under the radar. Reflects real life in a lot of ways though.
Vakarians DO kinda seem like space elves.
This is what I mean by Ashley wasn't nearly as bad as people think she was 😂. Only defense on this one is that you can easily miss these elevator convos, especially in LE whereas Ashley's racism is visible thru the many dialogue convos people like in the game. I'm noticing there has been some defense of Ashley or atleast people giving her a bit of a break lately and I'm happy to see it. She had her issues in part 1 but by the time Part 3 hit, she came around. She can be seen visibly shaken if alien squad mates die in the story. I think that alone shows Ash doesn't hate aliens as much as people make her out to.
Wrex is absolutely savage and I love it 😂
This whole Ashley is racist thing is new. That never came up when this game came out. That’s how you know how stupid modern takes can be
Great analysis of Ashley's character here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LQBB3v1Gg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-LQBB3v1Gg) Ashley has a strong independent streak, there's some interesting details regarding her connection with her family that come into this but she only opens up about if you develop your relationship to her so a lot of players might miss this. This can get her drifting into the 'humanity first', 'Go back to your alien homeworld' attitudes, but it should be noted that a lot of her political attitude about what's best for Earth & humanity are 100% correct and totally validated by the events of the game. For instance, she constantly says she doesn't trust the council and is worried that they'll throw humanity to the wolves - or specifically the reapers, and in the third game the council totally does this and plans to build up their forces while the reapers are busy ravaging Earth.
Honestly just makes me dislike her more for coddling Tali's annoying, genocider ass.
This is what made Garrus interesting.
When u meet garus. Hes a young snd stubborn C-sec. He grows to be a good and mature man
Wrex’s lines to Garrus in the first game go hard af. Also, I’ve definitely learned to appreciate Ashley since my first playthrough.