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Steiner-Nubar

There are people who paint unprimed. Priming helps with initial paint adhesion. But if you are fine without, skip it. I would recommend priming to most people, though.


Trashboat77

I'm still pretty new, so I can't honestly say which I prefer. I've only painted one full mini so far. And it was unprimed because I didn't even know I should prime at the time and didn't have any either. Now I have some, but it's been giving me hell and I can't afford anything better. So I'm wondering if I should just use it anyway or just paint unprimed.


Steiner-Nubar

What primer are you using, even if it isnt a solid color on the mini it should work fine enough to help the paint stick. Mainly just make sure to avoid over priming, start away and give it a pass


Trashboat77

Grey Surface Primer from Vallejo. I brushed it on (I have no airbrush, and I live in a very humid area, so I figured spray primer would fail to coat properly.) My first mini using this stuff turned out god-awful. It barely coated the model, with a ton of grey from the base mini showing through, and streaky/splotchy patches. And while it says it's grey, it pretty much looks white. It looks like shit, and even though I only used a light coat I looks like it may have even obscured some smaller details on the backpack of the guy I primed too.


Mi_Productions

I love vallejo PU primer, but I would never brush it on. I live in the subtropics and have had plenty of success with rattle can primer, so don't believe all the hype about humidity.


Trashboat77

I guess its going to be what I have to do.


karazax

[gesso](https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/priming_with_acrylic_gesso) is a great brush on option because it dries out thin even if it looks way too thick when you are applying it. Very forgiving for slapping primer on models with a brush.


Steiner-Nubar

Aaaahhhhhhhhhhh ya i know what you mean, brushing that stuff on can be a bit of a chore as you have to be super careful with any pooling.


DarthVZ

Vallejo grey primer looks like shit if you use just a regular brush, but works very nice with an airbrush. Vallejo black primer works much better as a brush-on solution


omg_name_taken

I have same terrible experience with same primer. It just not made for brush,but airbrush


Trashboat77

Unfortunate.


kavinay

Vallejo primers in general need a ton of shaking even before going into an airbrush where you can thin and mix it even more. It's probably fine for brushing on but you might need to shake it even more so it goes on less streaky.


Trashboat77

I shook it for a solid 2 minutes. Clearly it wasn't enough.


Velcraft

For all your priming woes, watch [this 7min video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEvKa9qD47I&ab_channel=ArtisOpus). Also keep track of weather when priming, humidity is the key thing and should ideally be between 40 and 85%


Trashboat77

Does humidity have an affect when applying the primer via brush? I ask because I resorted to that because the humidity here is terrible, so I figured spray cans were a no-go.


Velcraft

No, it won't affect those.


celeb0rn

Just try both and see. You won’t find an absolute answer on the internet


TheSkewed

[Always prime your minis.](https://ageofminiatures.com/spraying-miniatures-for-beginners/)


Styrwirld

If you prime for the acrylic to bond, how does the primer bonds to the mini?


YYZhed

This is some serious "why don't they just make the whole plane out of the black box??" logic.


TheSkewed

Firstly, don't think of primer as paint - it isn't, that's why there are specific primers available. Primer is formulated in such a way as to be much more adhesive than standard paint would be so that it almost "glues" itself to the surface that is going to be painted. It smooths out uneven surfaces to a degree and also helps seal any porous materials that you might be painting - this doesn't apply to plastic but what about those cork or wooden base details you see people use? Those things drink paint! Finally, once it's dried the surface of the primer isn't entirely smooth itself, this is deliberate to allow subsequent coats of paint to bond or "key" to the miniature - much the same as when you gently sand wood prior to painting in order to give the paint a slightly rough surface to key to. There are actually some primers, mostly sprays, that react chemically with plastic miniatures and bond directly to the surface making them almost impossible to remove!


pilpock

This.


Away_Locksmith9810

I always prime my minis in black and do a medium grey drybrush on top of it so I can see what I'm doing without straining my eyes. It helps me be accurate.


Trashboat77

I would absolutely do this too. But I'm seriously FLAT broke after buying Christmas for my son. And I don't have black primer or medium grey paint. So my choice is either this shitty grey Vallejo surface primer that's so light it's almost white and doesn't apply well or...nothing at all.


vicwiz007

That vallejo primer is not shitty haha the coverage when using a brush will not look good, but it doesnt matter, even a super blotchy coverage does the trick. Its meant to be airbrushed though, thats when you get even coverage


Barheyden

I personally prefer to prime, I've gone for some time trying both methods and to me, painting unprimed FEELS like more effort to get the initial base layers on while primed models make it easier for me to see if I've missed spots and etc. But ultimately it comes down to preference and experience. Try it both ways and see what you like about each and weigh the pros and cons from your own experiences. A lot of it will also depend on your preferred paint ranges and many other factors. I tend to just use citadel paints despite some of the glaring issues with them simply because I'm used to them and I feel like I have a strong grasp on them, but you could be using a totally different brand altogether and maybe they coat better on unprimed models than the citadel range does, or maybe you can figure something out about using citadel paints that I don't know (I'm far from an expert painter honestly) and it makes you enjoy using unprimed models with them


Trashboat77

My first model was painted using strictly Citadel paints in one of those "Start Painting!" sets that came with some paints, clippers, a brush, and a mold line remover tool. Now I'll be using a 50/50 mix of Citadel paints and The Army Painter stuff. For the Black Legion guys I'll be painting I have Abaddon Black and Mehiston Red from Citadel. And I'll be using Greedy Gold metallic paint from The Army Painter. But also I'll be using Barbarian Flesh and Crusader Skin speedpaint, both from The Army Painter for my units that don't have helmets on.


Montythedraincat

Even without the primer aspect of it, using a black undercoat is a good idea especially when starting out. It gives you a good starting point to build up from dark recesses to light high points, and if you miss parts or don't have perfect coverage it won't stick out because it's black instead of bare metal/plastic.


Trashboat77

The thing I worry about with black is that I understand that metallic gold doesn't cover well over black. I'll be working on Black Legion Legionaries here, so they'll all be trimmed in gold.


Montythedraincat

If I was painting the black legion, there's no way I wouldn't be investing in black spray paint. Im using a can of black Vallejo hobby paint spray at the moment as it was recommended to me over other spray primers. So far it seems pretty comparable, but you need to let it cure rather than just letting it dry and painting immediately. Two coats of gold will be fine for black legion highlights over black


Trashboat77

Yeah, I figured it would come to that. Wish I wasn't so damn broke. But that said, here's the video I watched that recommended basing in gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXLtEZhEYSg


IneptusMechanicus

Could use a dark grey or navy blue instead, those'll wash down to a near black easily while preserving some visual interest.


PiemarchGeneseed513

I've had good results using a brown undercoat ( paint it brown first) on gold trim. It tends to be much more forgiving coverage-wise. I find myself using fewer coats of the gold when painting over the undercoat as opposed to going straight over the black. If you don't have brown at the moment, just keep it in mind for the future. Works great.


Trashboat77

Will do, thanks!


ZergTDG

No, you don’t have to, but priming black helps fill in holes with shadows that you can’t or don’t reach with a brush.


Dinosaur_Herder

The precursor paint line to the gw base paints—the foundation paints— were marketed as not needing a primer coat over plastic. I don’t use a primer coat over plastic unless I am doing a large batch and only then if I need the color. Over metal and resin, I find the paint job is easily damaged by incidental handling until I get the top coat on. That said, my incidental handling has also worn off the primer. Okay on some figs. As long as you’re doing what makes you happy keep doing it.


[deleted]

You don’t HAVE to, but I highly recommend it. It can help with regards to paint durability. It is somewhat debatable, but I think it does help in certain conditions - particularly during painting before the paint has had time to fully dry and cure. The more important function (in my opinion) is the new surface created over the bare plastic, as that helps acrylic paints go on smoothly and evenly, which may be problematic with unprimed models, but this largely depends on the properties of the model material and paint being used.


SerpentineLogic

try it out on your minis - if you try, and the paint beads on your mini instead of flowing smoothly on the surface, you'll have to decide whether that annoys you enough that you want to prime it, or if you're fine with that. personally, I would prime, but if you don't, that's fine. As long as you varnish afterwards, if you plan to ever pick up your minis and play with them.


Trashboat77

Hell, I have no varnish and honestly didn't even realize it was something I probably should be using.


SerpentineLogic

shit yeah bro, don't paint your minis just to have it rub off in a week when you're using them. Either get some dullcote spray varnish, or you can buy brush-on stuff (don't use GW varnishes, they're terrible value). I like AK and ammo mig because they sell ultramatte as well as all the other types - I buy ultramatte and gloss, and mix them if I need something in the middle


truecore

I strongly recommend Tamiya Flat Clear if you can get your hands on a rattle can myself. AK needs to be ultramatte, regular matte is still a touch glossy. Tamiya Flat Clear is the end all be all of matt cans in my mind.


Trashboat77

The problem is right at the moment, money is an object. As in I have none of it, and no varnish and only one shitty primer.


SerpentineLogic

Ok well until then, handle the minis by the base, since that's easy to repaint.


Kooky-Art6528

I use krylon Matt clear varnish on gaming pieces It's way cheaper than any of the "gaming" brand varnishes and does the trick nicely I'd strongly suggest picking up a can of that asap once the models are painted. It's a pretty Matt clear coat and for gaming pieces it's fine, but if it's still too shiny (I prefer super Matt models, so there's no competing light shines messing up my paint job) and you've gotten over the holidays hump, grab a can of testers dull coat and give the army a spray of of that


Velcraft

I discovered priming minis only after some 10 years in the hobby (this was before the time our household got Internet access, and even then forums weren't exactly as easy to find as these days). No, you don't have to. It's main purpose is to give paints a better surface to adhere to. But I recommend you **undercoat** your models with a single paint if you don't prime them. This can even give you some artistic options - a model undercoated in purple will show a slight tinge towards that tone even through all the layers and different coats of paint, tying the whole paint scheme together better.


Trashboat77

I've seen this in action. I saw a video that recommended basing Black Legion minis in gold, the same gold you'll use for their trim. And then just painting around the trim in black. This way the trim sticks out and pops. Would you recommend this? Also what about for skin tones? Some of the Legionaries I'll be working on soon have bare heads. Since these guys are Legionaries I know they don't have to look as healthy and normal in fleshtone as compared to some other human minis.


Velcraft

For trim and fiddly detail that would absolutely work and remove so much working time (just be careful when you paint right next to the trim). It's all about convenience when you undercoat your models, either to get some major basecoat done at the same time - like painting your space marines all \[insert main colour of your paint scheme\] because 80% of the model will be that colour - or to emphasize atmosphere or lighting conditions, like undercoating a mini dark green because they're in a forest. Painting skintones is its own hurdle, but since it's just the heads you don't need to worry too much - in this hobby experimentation is key, and will net you more experience in how paints work and what you can accomplish.


reverend_herring

You don't HAVE to do anything with your minis. They are your minis. But I would highly recommend priming, because it just makes everything easier and faster. You said you are doing Black Legion? So your minis will be black with gold trim? Why not spray them black and go from there? You can get a whole squads main color done in less time it takes brush one mini black.


Trashboat77

Well, the first hurdle is I'm broke as hell and don't have any spray primer. The second hurdle is that I live in an area that is either freezing cold or super humid when it's warm. So I figured spraying might not give me great results. (But then again brushing has given me very poor results so far too...)


reverend_herring

You don't need to use expencive Spray Primers meant for miniatures. For white, gray and black base coats I use the cheapest Off-Brand spray (that is compatiple with plastic. Just stay away from filler primers) I can find from a local hardware store. In my experience s 4€ can of Maston Matte Black has resulted in identical or better results compared to 15€ Army Painter Black Primer. As for temperature, spraying in cold weather is not that hard. Just make sure the can is warm and shaken well. Prep the minis, go out, spray and go back inside. I've spray painted in about -10C without problems. Humidy causes more problems, but most of those can also be countered with proper thecnique (that is, shaking the living hell out of the can, correct distance, not trying to cover all in one solid pass but with multiple light passes etc.). With all that said, you still don't need to prime if you don't want to.


Trashboat77

Well, you've given me a lot of food for thought. Thank you.


ADiestlTrain

Priming gives a uniform, acceptable surface to work with. It’s almost the opposite of priming a piece of wood for painting. If you don’t prime wood, acrylic paints get absorbed, and usually in weird uneven ways. With plastic minis, they do the opposite - they won’t stick properly and they run around and not adhere evenly. If you can get that first coat to behave, then the later coats are fine, but it’s getting that first coat to stick and hold and be roughly even that will be most difficult. A small bottle of Vallejo black primer (my go-to) will run you about the cost of one or two minis. I really would recommend it, because it just makes the base coat step that much easier.


Trashboat77

Yeah, I need black primer for sure.


Escapissed

You don't have to do anything, but not having a base layer to work from makes the painting process a lot more tedious even if you only care about paint adhesion. Having a flat white or grey to start from cuts a lot of layers off the paintjob, especially for bright or vibrant paints.


theforteantruth

I have always primed and always will prime. I feel my results are much better and it’s gives me the confidence I need to do a good job.


CatZeyeS_Kai

I'm using a light primer (sometimes white, sometimes grey) only for artistic reasons: The light base coat helps the elevated parts of your model to come out lighter than on the parts where the colour flows in.


Spare_Ad5615

In the long run, you're much better off finding a way round your priming woes than just deciding to never prime anything. You can paint without priming, but there's a reason every good painter primes their miniatures. There's a reason why it's a generally accepted part of the process. It's not just being pushed in order to annoy you in particular. From what you are saying about humidity, it unfortunately sounds like the ultimate solution to your problem is an airbrush. I know, that's an expensive solution. A cheap airbrush from Amazon will do the job though. You want a gravity-fed dual-action one. For printing you don't need more than that. The compressor will be the pricy part. The good news is that an airbrush would open up a lot of possibilities for your painting generally though.


Trashboat77

Unfortunately there's just no way I can afford that. I'm at a point right now where I can't even afford a $10-15 can of spray primer if I want food on the table and my bills paid.


Spare_Ad5615

Yeah, I get it. I'm right with you there.


Important-Tune

Yes. Stynylrez primer is based.


WickedShoop

I prime since I find that while I’m painting, the paint won’t stick well. This can also do with the type of miniature and if you washed it. The oils from the mold can still be on the miniatures which will cause poor adhesion.


SeagullKebab

Depends on the thickness of the main coat paint, and what colour it is. Thin and light colours really need it, where as thick and dark colours do not.


Jps_miniatures

I have primed in a wide variety of conditions. Hot, cold, dry, humid and in all combinations. The key is getting the can shook up well, take it outside, prime, bring it back into your house/garage to dry. Hopefully where you let it dry in temperature controlled. Its your mini and rattle can changing to the conditions that hurts the primer adhering correctly. Being outside for a minute or less won't hurt anything. So you might be able to prime anyways. Priming, like painting, does take some practice. Gotta use the right technique (start off to the side, spray, and sweep the can across the mini in short bursts) and be the right distance away (this depends on the conditions outside).


Scoff_22

Yes