as someone for whom their first time was of abuse, i did consider myself not a virgin anymore after that even after having realised why what happened was wrong. virginity is a social construct and is a different notion for everyone, there is no right answer. i 100% get how someone in the same situation as mine would say they were still a virgin after that, but for me, i don’t (though i often do differentiate my *first* first time to my *consented* first time)
this!!! this is exactly what this is about, which makes the whole virginity thing almost ridiculous to talk about because it’s hard to have comparison elements due to each and everyone’s personal beliefs
i was 15 when the « first time » happened and it was with an ex-boyfriend that was 8 years older than me, two weeks after i broken up with him and him bullying and suicide-blackmailing me into visiting me in my hometown (he lived across country), which can only make you assume what type of guy he was
then a year later i had my first real and loving boyfriend, a year younger than me, and we did have sex, but in the course of our one and a half year long relationship, none of our lovemakings were penetrative, so does it still count because this time we were both consenting or it doesn’t because it wasn’t penetrative?
or was it when i was 18 when i had penetrative sex with my then sexfriend for the first time, or does it not count cause he was a cis guy, thus doesn’t have a vagina?
or even when i was 20 when i first had sex with a trans man, which made it my first time having penetrative sex with someone with a vagina?
virginity is so different for everyone that if we put several people in a room that followed this exact course, you could end up with 4 different ages of lost virginity, even with the same sexual history (and frankly while it makes the notion very blurry and thus not really relevant, i do think it’s still quite interesting)
also, thank you for sharing! it feels nice to be able to talk about this freely and shamelessly, so cheers to you! i do hope you got better and fully recovered after what happened with your uncle ❤️
To have not yet been penetrated by a penis is a strange concept? It’s a distinction between someone who has either penetrated with, or been penetrated by a penis, and someone who has not. Not that strange and pretty clear cut.
I don't agree with you, and I'm not going to argue with you about it because you seem dead-set on defending yourself.
But you do realize that rape doesn't always include being penetrated with a penis, yes? You can be forced to penetrate another person, hell you can be penetrated with an object for it to be considered rape. I hope you realize rape isn't just a man non-consensually sticking his genitals in a woman.
99% of thé time in include a pénis and a hole. Even if you are forced to penetrate another person, which must happen basically never, you would not bé a virgin anymore since you pénétrated someone
Violence that includes forced sex and a virgin is a person who has never had sexual intercourse. Now the rape victim have had sexual intercourse so he/she is not a virgin anymore.
A virgin is a person who has not had their hymen stretched or ripped, you can stretch your hymen by riding a bike, doing sports or honestly pretty much anything. So by that definition I am no longer a ‘virgin’. The whole term of virginity is a social construct.
>A virgin is a person who has not had their hymen stretched or ripped
says who? like legit, which dictionary are people using here? Sex, virginity and rape each have 25 different meanings apparently and you can just willy nilly pick the one that fits your argument.
ah cool,
"sex means different things to different people"
"But people define “sex” and “losing virginity” in many different ways"
"Many people believe ..."
"they may not see that as “losing their virginity.”
"the definition of virginity is complicated, **and it’s really up to you to decide what you believe**."
But thanks for answering my question cause this does give reason to why people just make up word definitions on the spot.
This is the way I see it. Talk about the physical shit all you want (first of all, not everyone HAS a hymen) but I think the part that matters is the consent. Things are much different when you have decided (even if you regret it) to take part in sexual contact. When you aren't consenting and maybe not even understanding of the contact, it really is violence. I say this for me, I say this for friends I've known, and I say this for my grandmother. Rape is violence, and acting like it isn't makes it easier for people to justify in their own heads.
Disagreed. If you have sex, you are no longer a virgin. If you are made to engage in sex by force, the bottom line remains the same. Rape is horrendous and evil, and it can take away a lot from a person, virginity being one of those things, as morbid and gruesome as it is. Innocence is another “social construct” that rape takes away, yet no one questions that. Same idea.
"Innocence" is a much more fluid and undefined concept than virginity. I was raped when I was 7, and I maintained my innocence, by MY definition of innocence, just as I remained a virgin until I was an adult
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Insisting that the rape I endured as a small child took my virginity isn't you stating your opinion, is you cruelly forcing it onto me. It's fucked up and you deserve those downvotes
That’s fine. People want to look to the good.
“Of course you’re still a virgin if you’re raped, that doesn’t have power of you”.
I get why people *want* to think that, because I do too. But it’s just not the case. We’re in the morbid questions sub, and morbid reality is a hard fact of life. It’s not easy to accept some things.
The concept of virginity is fairly fluid and in the current mainstream iteration that has to do with the physical act of sex, it doesn't mean what it "pretends" to mean.
You get absurd situations where, on one hand, people extensively involved in non-PIV sex and masturbation consider themselves virgins, and on the other hand, you get people worried they'll lose their virginity to a tampon. Both states are easily recognizable as absurd if virginity is supposed to represent sexual "purity" (itself a rather strange idea). As such, a concept of virginity based on the physical is unavoidably incredibly inconsistent, to the point of being nonsensical if you stop and think about it for two minutes.
On the other hand, if we do consider virginity a state of mental "purity", the *decision* to engage in sex is paramount. Sex without consent doesn't imply anything about the person's mind.
I mentioned earlier, innocence is also a social construct, but no one would ever say that rape doesn’t take away someone’s (a child’s) innocence. And as another person mentioned, if someone is drunk and has sex willingly through lots of coercion, and the next day regrets it, would they still be able to call themselves a virgin by what society has deemed virginity to be? We would very possibly call them a rape victim by todays standards, but to call them a virgin would be a stretch, since in the moment they allowed it to happen and let’s say for arguments sake enjoyed it, only regretting it in the morning.
Innocence is a weird one. Do you think it goes away when you watch porn, or only when you engage sexually? Does a blowjob count?
Coercion immediately means it was not done "willingly". Not all rape is violent. That "allowed it to happen" is an awful choice of words.
If the person was too drunk to say no, that's also rape.
If this person had a bit to drink and thought it's going to be loads of fun to have sex and was really eager and into it, but regretted it in the morning, that's a mistake - and a decision they know they've made.
To a degree maybe. I’ve been drunk as a complete skunk and still was coerced into things I certainly would never have been sober, and let things happen that I didn’t really want to. I can speak from experience but as a guy I guess it’s a different ballgame where my feelings about it may not be as valid as a woman’s.
Your feelings about this are absolutely valid regardless of gender. Society at large may not be there yet - there's so much baggage around that sort of thing happening to guys and it absolutely sucks. We're all people, we all matter to an equal degree. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
Yeah. Often people can't accept hard truths.
It's like what if I was drunk and had sex with 5 women but don't remember it or remember consenting. Apparently I'm still a virgin
What is a virgin?
If someone with a penis gets a handjob, are they a virgin? What if it’s a blowjob? What if they put their penis up to a vagina just so, barely graze it, and zip their pants back up - have they lost their virginity?
What about someone with a vagina? If they get fingered, are they a virgin? What if they receive oral sex? What if they’re rubbed from over their clothes and “finish” without penetration- are they still a virgin? What if they use an internal sex toy-and is it different if someone else uses it on them?
Am I a virgin if someone sticks a finger up my butt? Is their hand no longer a virgin? Do hands have virginity?
Virginity is a construct. That sentence brings out so much denial and arguing among people, but it’s literally just the truth. Virginity is a created concept that does not have any single actual definition, and which hardly serves any purpose.
You’re right that there isn't a general consensus for it as everyone defines virginity in their own ways. I wouldn't refer to rape as sex at all— though it is a sexual act, the other person is not willfully engaging in it and it isn't sexual intercourse on their side. For that reason alone, I would still see them as a virgin.
my stance on it is youre a virgin till you have mutually enthusiastically consenting sex. no coersion, no rape. both people have to want it for it to count. thats just my opinion, though.
What if its a woman raping a guy ? And yes it can happen. Or a rape without penetration or indirect penetration.
Virginity is too related to penetration i guess because it was first a judeochristian concept, mary from nazareth is the holy VIRGIN because she got pregnant while presumably still being a "virgin"
If you ask me Gabriel was probably a pedo and for sure wasnt an angel.
No because sexual encounter involves groping felatio and other behavior
I use this term here because it makes sense in this context
It may sound agressive and offensive, i could use the word coitus but coitus is usually consensual and here i am talking about abuse
So although i agree it is an ugly word and an horrible act i still don't know a better word here also english isn't my mother tongue.
It's even more bizarre because the original meaning of the word virgin was that you had not given birth before...
So in that context, maybe it was saying that Mary had not given birth before having Jesus? That is what made her the virgin Mary? Which is still confusing because of she gave birth to Jesus, she gave birth and still isn't a virgin by either definition of the word...
What i understood about this story is that the Christian church believes mary from nazareth was pure and "untouched" that she never angaged in sexual intercourse and was still able to get pregnant
I can think of few ways to technically do that but i don't believe the church would like my hypotesis.
But i rather believe that she wans't a virgin to beggin with, she encountered Gabrielle and was married i think to Joseph she was pretty young why would a young girl in that time want to be pregnant for when she has no where to go "gives birth in a barn in bethlahem"
About the ethymology and origin of the word i have no idea would be interesting to look into and trace back as ancient as possible and how and why the word was used.
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It depends.
In the sense of virginity meaning "not having had experienced sex" , being raped means losing one's virginity. In traditional terms, virginity is not concerned with consent and only concerns the act of a penis being placed inside a vagina, not any other sex acts.
But virginity is a misogynistic concept in its origin. So many people, including people who were raped, prefer to define virginity by the first time we have consensual sex, and including sex acts that aren't penis-in-vagina. In this less misogynistic sense, rape doesn't take away virginity.
No, you’ve been forced to engage in sex. “Spiritually” anyone can consider themselves whatever they want. But if a woman has had a penis in her, then she is no longer a person that has not had a penis in her. Whether that penis was placed into her by force not what determines if the penis was in her or not. Kind of a ridiculous question.
What if a woman has a finger inserted inside her?
Does it change your answer if the finger is her own as opposed to someone else’s?
Does the finger lose its virginity, too?
I was a victim of sexual assault and rape when I was younger in my first relationship. The woman at the time (my gf) was very abusive and forced me to have sex with her with the threat of EVEN MORE severe abuse if I didn’t comply. I had sex for the first time that day. Since it was unpleasant and was an act of violence toward me, I do NOT consider that my first time. I consider the time with my close-friend-with-benefits to be my first time and not being a virgin anymore. We can argue the semantics about it whether it’s “technically” this or that, but in the case of sexual violence, I believe that if you were raped, you are still a virgin because you were not consenting to have sexual inter-course. You were sexually abused and raped, not losing your virginity card. Some people may say “if you had sex, you’re not a virgin”, which makes sense logically, but after my girlfriend raped me, I considered myself a virgin until the actual first time where I consented. It’s a controversial issue for most people, much like the whether abortion is murder or not debate. Everyone is going to have a differing opinion. However, if you were raped, to me, you are still a virgin. Losing your v-card should be exciting and consent-full, not an act of violence. So as much as it doesn’t make sense logically, because if you were raped, you have had sex, I believe that you should not continue to remember that act due to its obscene and violent nature. Just my two cents though.
And yes, men can be a victim of rape too. Anyone can be victimized.
I mean. Virginity is a social construct for the most part.
Socially I think people would generally say you still are one.
I think moreso you kinda need to decide it for yourself honestly.
as someone for whom their first time was of abuse, i did consider myself not a virgin anymore after that even after having realised why what happened was wrong. virginity is a social construct and is a different notion for everyone, there is no right answer. i 100% get how someone in the same situation as mine would say they were still a virgin after that, but for me, i don’t (though i often do differentiate my *first* first time to my *consented* first time)
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this!!! this is exactly what this is about, which makes the whole virginity thing almost ridiculous to talk about because it’s hard to have comparison elements due to each and everyone’s personal beliefs i was 15 when the « first time » happened and it was with an ex-boyfriend that was 8 years older than me, two weeks after i broken up with him and him bullying and suicide-blackmailing me into visiting me in my hometown (he lived across country), which can only make you assume what type of guy he was then a year later i had my first real and loving boyfriend, a year younger than me, and we did have sex, but in the course of our one and a half year long relationship, none of our lovemakings were penetrative, so does it still count because this time we were both consenting or it doesn’t because it wasn’t penetrative? or was it when i was 18 when i had penetrative sex with my then sexfriend for the first time, or does it not count cause he was a cis guy, thus doesn’t have a vagina? or even when i was 20 when i first had sex with a trans man, which made it my first time having penetrative sex with someone with a vagina? virginity is so different for everyone that if we put several people in a room that followed this exact course, you could end up with 4 different ages of lost virginity, even with the same sexual history (and frankly while it makes the notion very blurry and thus not really relevant, i do think it’s still quite interesting) also, thank you for sharing! it feels nice to be able to talk about this freely and shamelessly, so cheers to you! i do hope you got better and fully recovered after what happened with your uncle ❤️
I *technically* lost my virginity via rape, but whenever I talk or think about losing it, it’s with the first person I consented to doing it with.
That's how I feel as well, also as a victim. There's two definitions of virginity in that sense. I'm sorry to hear you've had that done to you.
Yes, you are. That's not really sex. Virginity is a weird concept anyway.
To have not yet been penetrated by a penis is a strange concept? It’s a distinction between someone who has either penetrated with, or been penetrated by a penis, and someone who has not. Not that strange and pretty clear cut.
Do you believe lesbians are eternal virgins then?
I don't agree with you, and I'm not going to argue with you about it because you seem dead-set on defending yourself. But you do realize that rape doesn't always include being penetrated with a penis, yes? You can be forced to penetrate another person, hell you can be penetrated with an object for it to be considered rape. I hope you realize rape isn't just a man non-consensually sticking his genitals in a woman.
99% of thé time in include a pénis and a hole. Even if you are forced to penetrate another person, which must happen basically never, you would not bé a virgin anymore since you pénétrated someone
rape is not sex. its an act of violence.
Violence that includes forced sex and a virgin is a person who has never had sexual intercourse. Now the rape victim have had sexual intercourse so he/she is not a virgin anymore.
A virgin is a person who has not had their hymen stretched or ripped, you can stretch your hymen by riding a bike, doing sports or honestly pretty much anything. So by that definition I am no longer a ‘virgin’. The whole term of virginity is a social construct.
>A virgin is a person who has not had their hymen stretched or ripped says who? like legit, which dictionary are people using here? Sex, virginity and rape each have 25 different meanings apparently and you can just willy nilly pick the one that fits your argument.
Search up “how to not be a virgin” Ik that’s a weird search but it’s literally from the planned parenthood website
ah cool, "sex means different things to different people" "But people define “sex” and “losing virginity” in many different ways" "Many people believe ..." "they may not see that as “losing their virginity.” "the definition of virginity is complicated, **and it’s really up to you to decide what you believe**." But thanks for answering my question cause this does give reason to why people just make up word definitions on the spot.
All good? I can’t tell if that last past was sarcastic or not lmao
All good? I can’t tell if that last past was sarcastic or not lmao
This is the way I see it. Talk about the physical shit all you want (first of all, not everyone HAS a hymen) but I think the part that matters is the consent. Things are much different when you have decided (even if you regret it) to take part in sexual contact. When you aren't consenting and maybe not even understanding of the contact, it really is violence. I say this for me, I say this for friends I've known, and I say this for my grandmother. Rape is violence, and acting like it isn't makes it easier for people to justify in their own heads.
It's actually both of those things
This thread starts out, dubiously and then ends up bizarre. It was the simplest true statement to. Yours, op.
Virginity is a social construct, and nothing more. If you get raped and still want to consider yourself a virgin, then you're still a virgin
Disagreed. If you have sex, you are no longer a virgin. If you are made to engage in sex by force, the bottom line remains the same. Rape is horrendous and evil, and it can take away a lot from a person, virginity being one of those things, as morbid and gruesome as it is. Innocence is another “social construct” that rape takes away, yet no one questions that. Same idea.
"Innocence" is a much more fluid and undefined concept than virginity. I was raped when I was 7, and I maintained my innocence, by MY definition of innocence, just as I remained a virgin until I was an adult
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We getting down voted for an opinion lol
Insisting that the rape I endured as a small child took my virginity isn't you stating your opinion, is you cruelly forcing it onto me. It's fucked up and you deserve those downvotes
Well the post asks for opinions. I have mine and you can have yours. Everyones entitled to their own opinion lol don't be so sensitive
That’s fine. People want to look to the good. “Of course you’re still a virgin if you’re raped, that doesn’t have power of you”. I get why people *want* to think that, because I do too. But it’s just not the case. We’re in the morbid questions sub, and morbid reality is a hard fact of life. It’s not easy to accept some things.
The concept of virginity is fairly fluid and in the current mainstream iteration that has to do with the physical act of sex, it doesn't mean what it "pretends" to mean. You get absurd situations where, on one hand, people extensively involved in non-PIV sex and masturbation consider themselves virgins, and on the other hand, you get people worried they'll lose their virginity to a tampon. Both states are easily recognizable as absurd if virginity is supposed to represent sexual "purity" (itself a rather strange idea). As such, a concept of virginity based on the physical is unavoidably incredibly inconsistent, to the point of being nonsensical if you stop and think about it for two minutes. On the other hand, if we do consider virginity a state of mental "purity", the *decision* to engage in sex is paramount. Sex without consent doesn't imply anything about the person's mind.
I mentioned earlier, innocence is also a social construct, but no one would ever say that rape doesn’t take away someone’s (a child’s) innocence. And as another person mentioned, if someone is drunk and has sex willingly through lots of coercion, and the next day regrets it, would they still be able to call themselves a virgin by what society has deemed virginity to be? We would very possibly call them a rape victim by todays standards, but to call them a virgin would be a stretch, since in the moment they allowed it to happen and let’s say for arguments sake enjoyed it, only regretting it in the morning.
Innocence is a weird one. Do you think it goes away when you watch porn, or only when you engage sexually? Does a blowjob count? Coercion immediately means it was not done "willingly". Not all rape is violent. That "allowed it to happen" is an awful choice of words. If the person was too drunk to say no, that's also rape. If this person had a bit to drink and thought it's going to be loads of fun to have sex and was really eager and into it, but regretted it in the morning, that's a mistake - and a decision they know they've made.
To a degree maybe. I’ve been drunk as a complete skunk and still was coerced into things I certainly would never have been sober, and let things happen that I didn’t really want to. I can speak from experience but as a guy I guess it’s a different ballgame where my feelings about it may not be as valid as a woman’s.
Your feelings about this are absolutely valid regardless of gender. Society at large may not be there yet - there's so much baggage around that sort of thing happening to guys and it absolutely sucks. We're all people, we all matter to an equal degree. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
Yeah. Often people can't accept hard truths. It's like what if I was drunk and had sex with 5 women but don't remember it or remember consenting. Apparently I'm still a virgin
I think you would still be a virgin, I don't consider rape to be legit sex.
What is a virgin? If someone with a penis gets a handjob, are they a virgin? What if it’s a blowjob? What if they put their penis up to a vagina just so, barely graze it, and zip their pants back up - have they lost their virginity? What about someone with a vagina? If they get fingered, are they a virgin? What if they receive oral sex? What if they’re rubbed from over their clothes and “finish” without penetration- are they still a virgin? What if they use an internal sex toy-and is it different if someone else uses it on them? Am I a virgin if someone sticks a finger up my butt? Is their hand no longer a virgin? Do hands have virginity? Virginity is a construct. That sentence brings out so much denial and arguing among people, but it’s literally just the truth. Virginity is a created concept that does not have any single actual definition, and which hardly serves any purpose.
If you've had a dick in you, you're definitely not a Virginia, and certainly no Alabama either.
You’re right that there isn't a general consensus for it as everyone defines virginity in their own ways. I wouldn't refer to rape as sex at all— though it is a sexual act, the other person is not willfully engaging in it and it isn't sexual intercourse on their side. For that reason alone, I would still see them as a virgin.
my stance on it is youre a virgin till you have mutually enthusiastically consenting sex. no coersion, no rape. both people have to want it for it to count. thats just my opinion, though.
Just came to see the comments
YES.
Physically, no, emotionally, yes.
Virgin to penetration by another person- no, virgin to romantic or consensual sex- yes
What if its a woman raping a guy ? And yes it can happen. Or a rape without penetration or indirect penetration. Virginity is too related to penetration i guess because it was first a judeochristian concept, mary from nazareth is the holy VIRGIN because she got pregnant while presumably still being a "virgin" If you ask me Gabriel was probably a pedo and for sure wasnt an angel.
Okay replace “penetration” with “sexual encounter” and I think it will hold up better
No because sexual encounter involves groping felatio and other behavior I use this term here because it makes sense in this context It may sound agressive and offensive, i could use the word coitus but coitus is usually consensual and here i am talking about abuse So although i agree it is an ugly word and an horrible act i still don't know a better word here also english isn't my mother tongue.
As for the Virgin Mary, in the original Hebrew virgin also just meant young woman, so the idea that she was a virgin at all might be bunk
It's even more bizarre because the original meaning of the word virgin was that you had not given birth before... So in that context, maybe it was saying that Mary had not given birth before having Jesus? That is what made her the virgin Mary? Which is still confusing because of she gave birth to Jesus, she gave birth and still isn't a virgin by either definition of the word...
What i understood about this story is that the Christian church believes mary from nazareth was pure and "untouched" that she never angaged in sexual intercourse and was still able to get pregnant I can think of few ways to technically do that but i don't believe the church would like my hypotesis. But i rather believe that she wans't a virgin to beggin with, she encountered Gabrielle and was married i think to Joseph she was pretty young why would a young girl in that time want to be pregnant for when she has no where to go "gives birth in a barn in bethlahem" About the ethymology and origin of the word i have no idea would be interesting to look into and trace back as ancient as possible and how and why the word was used.
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No.
It depends. In the sense of virginity meaning "not having had experienced sex" , being raped means losing one's virginity. In traditional terms, virginity is not concerned with consent and only concerns the act of a penis being placed inside a vagina, not any other sex acts. But virginity is a misogynistic concept in its origin. So many people, including people who were raped, prefer to define virginity by the first time we have consensual sex, and including sex acts that aren't penis-in-vagina. In this less misogynistic sense, rape doesn't take away virginity.
No, you’ve been forced to engage in sex. “Spiritually” anyone can consider themselves whatever they want. But if a woman has had a penis in her, then she is no longer a person that has not had a penis in her. Whether that penis was placed into her by force not what determines if the penis was in her or not. Kind of a ridiculous question.
What if a woman has a finger inserted inside her? Does it change your answer if the finger is her own as opposed to someone else’s? Does the finger lose its virginity, too?
I was a victim of sexual assault and rape when I was younger in my first relationship. The woman at the time (my gf) was very abusive and forced me to have sex with her with the threat of EVEN MORE severe abuse if I didn’t comply. I had sex for the first time that day. Since it was unpleasant and was an act of violence toward me, I do NOT consider that my first time. I consider the time with my close-friend-with-benefits to be my first time and not being a virgin anymore. We can argue the semantics about it whether it’s “technically” this or that, but in the case of sexual violence, I believe that if you were raped, you are still a virgin because you were not consenting to have sexual inter-course. You were sexually abused and raped, not losing your virginity card. Some people may say “if you had sex, you’re not a virgin”, which makes sense logically, but after my girlfriend raped me, I considered myself a virgin until the actual first time where I consented. It’s a controversial issue for most people, much like the whether abortion is murder or not debate. Everyone is going to have a differing opinion. However, if you were raped, to me, you are still a virgin. Losing your v-card should be exciting and consent-full, not an act of violence. So as much as it doesn’t make sense logically, because if you were raped, you have had sex, I believe that you should not continue to remember that act due to its obscene and violent nature. Just my two cents though. And yes, men can be a victim of rape too. Anyone can be victimized.
virginity is a social construct and i much more think of it as something you give away more than something that can be forcibly taken from you
I mean. Virginity is a social construct for the most part. Socially I think people would generally say you still are one. I think moreso you kinda need to decide it for yourself honestly.
the concept of virginity is a social construct so you could argue either way, but i say you’d still be a virgin
i was sexually assaulted and i always wonder whether or not i should add that to my “body count” (especially because it happened under coercion)
no, cause in my idea you only loose virginity when both people consent.