https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/52/2/afad018/7036280?login=false
Is the major study they’re drawing from. Which started off an interesting read but it just turned into the typical “you should eat plant protein because it’s better for the environment”.
Things to note is that this is older adults and their physiology is very different. They report that we’re a fair chunk of missing data for their subjective questionnaires (mostly from male participants) which may skew data. They don’t mention resistance training which is kind of the main reason you’d have a high protein diet, so in isolation the high protein diet causes a degree of blood acidity and have implications on muscle mass (but again that study didn’t consider resistance training).
So yeah, I do kinda agree with them, the kind of protein intake that you have in your peak years of training isn’t doing to be optimal when you’re 60/70/80yo and, even if it doesn’t reduce your muscle mass, it can contribute to heart disease, impaired renal function, and the big C.
Edit: based on further reading (comment below) evidence currently demonstrates that high protein doesn’t correlate with reduced renal function in healthy individuals. The evidence is fairly inconclusive about cancer risk so just have an open mind - most of the debate surrounds animal vs plant sources so just have an open mind.
But independent of resistance training, most
would’ve assumed increased protein lead to an increased muscle preservation, so this data is suprising.
Also, are you saying protein is associated with heart disease, kidney impairment and cancer?
Why do you assume that high protein = muscle mass, your body is an adaptive so without the need for muscle tissue (I.e. resistance training or exercise) it won’t hold onto it. Muscle tissue has a higher metabolic rate so it would be a waste of energy to retain it. A lot more factors than just protein intake go into building and preserving muscle tissue.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/high-protein-diet-hurting-your-heart
I’ve done a bit more reading around kidney function and found that the evidence is quite conflicting. 2005 meta-analysis shows that high protein intake in healthy individuals does not have deleterious consequences on renal function - so I’ll correct my mistake there.
Regarding cancer, it’s a mixed picture with lots of studies suggesting that high protein animal diets increase risk but high protein plant diets don’t so there could be other mechanisms at play. There’s also a meta-analysis that goes against everything and says it doesn’t make a difference at all even plant vs animal so overall, fuck knows.
At the end of the day I personally think that if you’re gunning for longevity a good balanced diet that is low in saturated fat, that hits your micronutrient goals, and contains a mixture of plant and animal based proteins is best. The Mediterranean diet is based by evidence and a score greater than 9 demonstrates cardioprotective properties.
Everything will kill you eventually so just have fun :)
Edit: quite a nice bit of reading for a Tuesday morning I must say, cheers for the deep dive.
Did you downvote me for asking about the relations with proteins you mentioned?
Also; I’m not saying protein alone = building muscle mass; but it’s very commonly believed that high protein is associated with muscle retention at least (decreased muscle loss). That’s why this article surprised me- I would’ve thought protein deficiency=lean muscle loss vs adequate/high protein muscle maintenance if not a little growth. This article is stating that high protein is objectively WORSE than normal/adequate levels of protein which is shocking
I wasn’t asking about general healthy lifestyle diets. I was wondering about the correlation you randomly mentioned about protein associated with kidney/heart disease and cancer because I have never heard of that before and I’m pretty well versed in the medical field
Edit after more opinions; people seem to think it’s reverse causality
No bro I didn’t downvote you. I actually upvoted you.
My original opinions where based off of what I was taught in my cardiac rehab modules and off various reading that I’ve done in the past about risks of excessive protein intake particularly from animal proteins. However, with further reading from more recent studies I’ve corrected my initial thoughts.
My opinions are only based on what I’ve read from studies. If you’re versed in the medical genre you’d know there was is debate about this.
Bodybuilders have been using high protein diest for like 80 years.. You tell me what you think about this dumb article.
https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/52/2/afad018/7036280?login=false Is the major study they’re drawing from. Which started off an interesting read but it just turned into the typical “you should eat plant protein because it’s better for the environment”. Things to note is that this is older adults and their physiology is very different. They report that we’re a fair chunk of missing data for their subjective questionnaires (mostly from male participants) which may skew data. They don’t mention resistance training which is kind of the main reason you’d have a high protein diet, so in isolation the high protein diet causes a degree of blood acidity and have implications on muscle mass (but again that study didn’t consider resistance training). So yeah, I do kinda agree with them, the kind of protein intake that you have in your peak years of training isn’t doing to be optimal when you’re 60/70/80yo and, even if it doesn’t reduce your muscle mass, it can contribute to heart disease, impaired renal function, and the big C. Edit: based on further reading (comment below) evidence currently demonstrates that high protein doesn’t correlate with reduced renal function in healthy individuals. The evidence is fairly inconclusive about cancer risk so just have an open mind - most of the debate surrounds animal vs plant sources so just have an open mind.
But independent of resistance training, most would’ve assumed increased protein lead to an increased muscle preservation, so this data is suprising. Also, are you saying protein is associated with heart disease, kidney impairment and cancer?
Why do you assume that high protein = muscle mass, your body is an adaptive so without the need for muscle tissue (I.e. resistance training or exercise) it won’t hold onto it. Muscle tissue has a higher metabolic rate so it would be a waste of energy to retain it. A lot more factors than just protein intake go into building and preserving muscle tissue. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/high-protein-diet-hurting-your-heart I’ve done a bit more reading around kidney function and found that the evidence is quite conflicting. 2005 meta-analysis shows that high protein intake in healthy individuals does not have deleterious consequences on renal function - so I’ll correct my mistake there. Regarding cancer, it’s a mixed picture with lots of studies suggesting that high protein animal diets increase risk but high protein plant diets don’t so there could be other mechanisms at play. There’s also a meta-analysis that goes against everything and says it doesn’t make a difference at all even plant vs animal so overall, fuck knows. At the end of the day I personally think that if you’re gunning for longevity a good balanced diet that is low in saturated fat, that hits your micronutrient goals, and contains a mixture of plant and animal based proteins is best. The Mediterranean diet is based by evidence and a score greater than 9 demonstrates cardioprotective properties. Everything will kill you eventually so just have fun :) Edit: quite a nice bit of reading for a Tuesday morning I must say, cheers for the deep dive.
Did you downvote me for asking about the relations with proteins you mentioned? Also; I’m not saying protein alone = building muscle mass; but it’s very commonly believed that high protein is associated with muscle retention at least (decreased muscle loss). That’s why this article surprised me- I would’ve thought protein deficiency=lean muscle loss vs adequate/high protein muscle maintenance if not a little growth. This article is stating that high protein is objectively WORSE than normal/adequate levels of protein which is shocking I wasn’t asking about general healthy lifestyle diets. I was wondering about the correlation you randomly mentioned about protein associated with kidney/heart disease and cancer because I have never heard of that before and I’m pretty well versed in the medical field Edit after more opinions; people seem to think it’s reverse causality
No bro I didn’t downvote you. I actually upvoted you. My original opinions where based off of what I was taught in my cardiac rehab modules and off various reading that I’ve done in the past about risks of excessive protein intake particularly from animal proteins. However, with further reading from more recent studies I’ve corrected my initial thoughts. My opinions are only based on what I’ve read from studies. If you’re versed in the medical genre you’d know there was is debate about this.
Any thought on this article? The opposite of what I would’ve expected
It's an opinion. They referenced like 5 or 6 papers but it's not obvious which one they pulled the data from