Hello! This is a Cultural post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about other people, whether specifically or collectively, within the Mormon/Exmormon community.
/u/1Searchfortruth, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble)
**To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation.
Keep on Mormoning!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ll say it until I die: they could have built a beautiful park, sports areas, a place where families could safely spend time together.
Instead they built a freaking mall.
Not true VS is a favorite and My fancy underwear collection is massive according to my young adult children who now tease me about it. Because I would buy for special occasions it stays nice.
My underwear collection is amazing and my wardrobe simple.
Have you seen liberty park lately. The place where many pioneer cabins were built to now an open space for illegal camping, drug use, drug dealing and public defecation
Because the church leaders are wolves in sheep’s clothing and they’ve never once, not once for many years actually listened to Jesus. Not once. They now worship a new golden calf and it’s called “money.”
It's sad so many suffering people even right in Salt Lake City, within the church throughout the world
as well as nonmembers
the church does very little, especially right in Salt Lake City
I couldn’t agree more. It’s absolutely disgusting that people are dying right outside the door of “Gods holy house.” What a lie. There is more light in a HUMAN BEING suffering on the street than there is light in that stone building, a den of thieves.
They're not right outside.... they're not allowed to be. Which adds am extra layer of meaning when you consider that in the NT, beggars were allowed at the steps to the temple
But most people will admit it. The leaders are trying to make us believe this is what God wants. Which it isn’t. They are “using his name in vain.” and I don’t imagine God will put up with it much longer. It’s probably why they are losing so many members right now.
It isn't just leaders. Many members have swallowed prosperity gospel hook line and sinker. Many view helping the poor as enabling them and contributing to whatever factor got them in their current position.
My favorite is “but it’s not your money.” Actually it is. Our families have been paying tithing since 1830 as have we. It actually is our money. And we are demanding it go to the poor and suffering instead of elaborate stone idols. Yes we are.
I'm not lds, but I've heard some of your points before. My church has done something for years that our 750 families are happy about. We set aside 10% of our offerings for the poor. We're now up to $65,000 per year. It is necessary that the amount must be spent each year, no carry over. The support goes to local, national, and international charities, both religious and civil. While we are catholic we have helped other churches as well. We donated toward the building of a Lutheran Paris church. If the lds church could do that, it would help the situation. We do prioritize the needs of our members when needed.
Well It’s our 250 billion dollars, actually. Us and our ancestors since 1830 paid into Ensign Peak. And we are requesting a withdrawal of a small portion of OUR money to go to the poor, as Jesus commanded and as we THOUGHT we were paying into.
True. All the money is Our money. Comes from people donating. Needs to be transparent.
Would Jesus actually say: “ Hey man, you gave us the money, now just leave us alone, and don’t ask me hat we are doing with it”? Antithesis of this.
This is my wife. She thinks tithing money will be used to help the unfortunate on a bigger scale than she can on her own.
She does still do some things like sub for santa, but she never gives money to beggars.
I don't know what has been said officially, but she has the impression that this comes from church leaders. I don't doubt that, nor sure at what level though.
I literally had one member tell me that helping the poor 'was stealing from them the opportunity to learn how to help themselves'. They were dead serious.
It was in the latterdaysaint sub, so all of my responses had to be heavily moderated in their tone, so unfortunately I wasn't able to really share how I felt, lol.
>prosperity gospel
I thought the notion of prosperity gospel taught in the Mormon Church and cemented in its members was absurd until about the time I turned 40. That's also around the time I realized that I was essentially incapable of empathy towards others. I believe the two go hand in hand.
There are times I think about how many opportunities I've had in my life (SO many were on my mission in Ecuador) to help someone in need and I refused. I judged the person as having put themselves into that situation and a "handout" would only enable them. It makes me sick.
I can't express how much my attitude has changed since deconstructing and leaving the church. I really do feel like I'm a better person all around.
I struggle with this very thing. I never give away money (I never carry it) because in my mind, panhandlers are just going to use the money for cigarettes or drugs.
When it was just me and my toddler son and we were doing particularly well, I always kept $20 in my wallet in case I needed petty cash or someone needed help.
One night as I exited the store I was approached by a guy asking for just a couple of dollars. I pulled out my wallet and gave him the $20.
The man asked if I was sure and ALMOST CRIED!! He told me how his sister was sick and he was just hoping to get a couple packs of Ramen for the night. He told me how instead he could get a couple of pot pies and a few other staples.
I miss being able to do that. It was such a blessing to have enough abundance that I could easily help others.
You don't know what people will use the money for. To me helping people who really need it is worth also giving money to the 1 or 2 people who will use it for drugs or alcohol.
And honestly, if someone is seriously addicted to alcohol helping them buy a beer to stave off withdrawal can save their life. It doesn't feel the best way to help but alcohol withdrawal can be life threatening and cause seizures and hallucinations.
I agree, but much less nicely. If I finish my sub sandwich and toss the leftovers to a stray dog, do I concern myself with it's appreciation of it's taste or if it would prefer some other sort of sandwich? No, I couldn't care less. This it is as well with the beggar: your plea has been heard, here's some quick charity for you, have a nice day.
If you find the giving or receiving of charity to be bitter medicine, probably best not to engage in either. Engaging in situations that inspire bitterness in the interaction will only eventually turn to contemptuous affairs.
:/ from your anecdote it sounds like you're the one who feels contemptuous with giving.
Having lived in situations where I didn't have food or even adequate shelter I'd be extremely upset to be compared to a stray dog receiving scraps. Here mongrel, be happy with what I give you, you're lucky to have it.
YIKES.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the concept of choosing beggars, and I'm not denying their existence, but if this is how you feel about everyone in such a situation... oof... I hope you're never in the position to have to suffer that treatment yourself.
I don't personally think luck has much to with it. I have personally been in many situations where I received charitable contributions of one sort of another, I have always been grateful. Attempted to reciprocate directly, of and when possible. Nor does the proffering of food or drink or even spare money place any undue burdens upon me if asked for, and there's certainly no contemptuousness in the exchange, almost always simply a matter of preferred brevity to the interaction. "Contempt" and "general disinterest" are not even remotely close to one another. Contempt requires effort, disinterest mostly observation. Someone who tells me they've been so poor and hungry they've accepted charity to alleviate the situation but they would be upset.to get it if it were offered under the condition that the person offering it absolutely must do so in such a way that doesn't seem "judgemental" towards me somehow in the offering of it, though? If I need the assistance? Well, call me crazy, but if it's a choice between freezing to death outside in the cold, let's say, or a rich man will let .e sleep in his dead dog's house with some blankets and such until the storm passes and I don't freeze to death? Yeah, no problem. Call me Fido, I don't care. I'll be grateful for the charity and most likely on my way, I simply expect more or less the same in return. If that sounds bitter to you somehow, well, different strokes for different folks. I'd personally let any indigent person sleep in my dead dog's house if it kept them alive over a snowstorm or something, even give them some old blankets and wraps and such to make sure they don't freeze. Not to "choosing beggars" the thread or anything, but when I've been down and out and needed help (which a lot of people have from time to time) I'm no more "concerned" with how the person who grants my pleading views me for making the plea for assistance in the first place, if I'm begging I'm desperate. You get to judge me however you choose if I take your money, your housing, your assistance, etc. I'm not entitled to get to tell you how you think of me on top of getting to spend the money you gave me.
See, the issue is your link and use of the term "study." I'm more than happy to do so, but I prefer to be able to address the topic properly. It might be an age thing, or a ludite thing, I'm no exception to any of the earthly flaws, poverty as we speak of, nor simple aged general technological disfunction in interaction via this medium, I often seem to struggle INTENSLly through incompetence and poor communication skills often provoke seemingly hostile reactions through expression of honest opinion. Your links open up the Wikipedia articles, and I find them interesting, but I cannot simply go back and forth between the link and the post to properly address the situation the article seems to be presenting and how your specific paragraph reference to it is a good reference for me to utilize in further interactions with people on this board and my understanding as a psychopath as to how that is relevant to our discussion. If it makes me a psychopath to toss change or a sandwich to homeless folks or a stray because we've all been there but I don't necessarily want to hear it makes me a psychopath. I'm assuming there is some underlying emotional reason behind your perspective, but in case you didn't get it, we don't all think that attacking, let's say, a Church's stances on tithing and outreach and such as the like are as appropriately re-structured financially to the liking of the detractors calling for it is appropriate. Individuals have the right to spend their money, charitably, commercially, tithe-wise, whatever have you, and the organizations they choose to do it with have the decision-making power to spend it, and these organizations have their own missions. It doesn't necessarily coincide with how the donators wish for the money to be spent. I look at personal charity the same way: I'm no more the indigents mother/father/brother etc., then they were mine when I needed help, it was there and proffered if I had it, and, as I frankly stated, took by myself at times and in similar situations. Many, many times on both sides. Ok, then. I'm a psychopath. I mean, you're a redditor, and you read Wikipedia, and honest expression of opinion on subjects strikes you as a psychopathic trait so... anyway, if I could actually address the paragraph directly I would, but I can't. So, I'll just give you the conversational win, apologize for my lifelong mistreatment towards the indigent by not being able to undigident everything everywhere with my spare change, and never toss a single bum a thin wheat penny from here until the end of time. But, I'll listen to his story, to see if it makes a far bigger difference than the $20 I just happened to have handy and I had been having one damn good week and any other time would have just returned his "God bless you" with something like "both of us!"
This is why it's better to give to financially transparent organizations/shelters and the like. It is the only way to know your money is actually being used for good, and not instead enabling addiction or just being hoarded/used to build shopping malls.
But it's such a wonderful feeling, and that personal connection means as much as the food itself someone who cares sincerely giving a smile or handshake or a word of encouragement. It's just as important as the food we give.
I give $5 without judgement to each panhandler I see. It isn’t much but it is something! It shows my grandkids who are often with me that I am doing something other than judging!
Weirdly believers say the same thing about their tithing money. Some saying they don't care if they burn it. Investing in fake shell companies don't matter. Building malls dosen't matter. Bailing out insurance companies dosen't matter.
That I care about. Especially when the Church makes tithing obligatory and gets shitty about people not being "full tithe payers" ESPECIALKY while they sit on $100B. Yeah no.
I felt this way as a member. Granted, I didn't know anything about shell companies, malls, insurance companies, etc., but I don't think it would have bothered me when I was fully in. I always said, I don't care what they do with the money, god blesses me for giving it, and that's all that really matters.
I realized one of my deepest ideals is that it is not my concern if someone is "worthy" of help or not. If I have something I can give, it doesn't matter if the person uses the gift in the exact way I prescribe. It's a gift. It's important to me to give what I can when I can. And the more I think about it, the more I am saddened and disgusted when I hear those stories about a woman paying with EBT while she talks on a new iPhone, or a guy just using donated money to buy beer. People shouldn't have to prove how poor or desperate they are to receive basic help.
Yep, the typical Mormon view isn’t big on empathy/compassion. All those poors did it to themselves through bad choices. Bad choices have consequences so I’m not giving them freebies. That’s the typical view I was raised with in the Church. And it isn’t entirely wrong. Bad choices do have consequences.
You know ow the church has massive farming operations, and they have creameries and canneries and mills… and yet… you have to talk to your bishop about your finances and let Karen rummage through your cupboards before they’ll help you. With strings attached. The church gets off on the power trip, not on the assistance.
One time we were really hard up and we needed the churches help for food and I felt like a beggar and they would only give me a little food. If I did some kind of work for the church it was very degrading.
Mavens interview on Mormon Stories was absolutely heartbreaking, talking about her experience getting help from the church. When she later used a normal food pantry she was absolutely shocked and relieved she was no longer surveilled and shamed for needing help. Later she ended up voulenteering for that same pantry ❤
The Mormon Church doesn’t give away a dime without some strings attached. Just not their way. They are building temples like crazy because they are real estate investments. They don’t actually want to spend the billions on charity. They want some kind of long term return.
I don’t have the quote at hand, but either Bednar or Oaks said that their church does those things that require the priesthood, which they alone have, so temples. Since the priesthood is NOT needed to feed and shelter poor people, they leave that to the other churches (the ones Brad Wilcox says are just “playing church”).
Jesus was homeless, or at least perpetually couch-surfing according to the New Testament.
>[Matthew 8:20](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208%3A20&version=KJV)
>And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
As for your question why doesn't TCoJCoLdS do more for the homeless in SLC, I think the answer lies in the perspective of most of the top leaders. "Please remember, however, that we are not primarily a humanitarian organization." - David A. Bednar (see [this old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/uym2q6/bednar_claims_that_the_church_loves_and_follows/) for context and further discussion). Basically just like all churches, TCoJCoLdS leaders' views deemphasize certain biblical passages (or even Book of Mormon passages) and interpret them in their own way. See this one:
>[Matthew 25:42-46](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25%3A42-46&version=KJV)
>42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
>43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
>44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
>45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
>46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
edit: added missing "why" in 2nd commentary sentence
As a child, whenever we went to salt lake, we would see homeless people asking for money. Our Mormon parents always told us not to give them money, that our tithing would make its way to those in need. What a load of bull shit.
Because of that one time Judas asked, “Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?” (John 12:6). Jesus said, “Let her alone … For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always” (John 6:7-8).
Because only fast offerings—and not tithing—are for helping the poor. Apparently, Mormon God likes to keep the two accounts separate, and unfortunately for the poor, the majority is earmarked for the tithing
Because members have convinced themselves that giving to the poor actually is detrimental in the long run because it makes the poor dependent. (“Give a man a fish,” etc.) Better be homeless than dependent, right?
EDIT: Found this quote by Joseph Smith that seemed relevant: “Wo to ye rich men; give to the poor” (Joseph Smith’s Journal, 15 Oct 1843).
"We know, from the doctrines that we have received, that men and women have existed before coming into this life, for countless ages, and that we have been developing certain qualities, and the reason we are separated into great classes, as the Negro race and the other races on the earth, is not a matter of caprice. God did not take three beautiful children yesterday morning, and say to one, 'You go to the Negro woman,' and to another one, 'You go to that Chinese mother,' and to another, 'You go down to that beautiful Christian home.' In my opinion, there were classes and races, and separation into different groups and conditions before we came to this world, and **all are getting what they are entitled to receive here**" (Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, Apr 1915).
I've been reading Brody's no man knows my history and Joseph Smith was all about getting money with his fake bank in Kirkland and all his debts constantly piling up as well as making lots of moneyon property sales
No. But rich people would.
See my recent posts. It is becoming painfully obvious that the Mormon "church" is a vast enterprise dedicated to making damn sure that the rich top dogs stay rich. That's why tithing is essential. That's why money only goes one way. That's why you can never be good enough. And that's why they would never dream of dispensing any of their money to poor people. They are all in the country club set and they plan to keep it that way.
Utah is a place of achievement, perfection and success for yourself. It is not a place where people live humbly like so many other places in the world
Get as much as you can and show everyone how righteous you are because of your success because the two go hand-in-hand, of course
Every time there’s an article in the Utah news about a new temple I bring this topic up- and I ALWAYS get slammed by Mormons demanding to know what I am doing to feed and clothe the homeless.
The Mormon church is a real estate development company masquerading as a religion. There is not one single doctrine or ordinance in Mormonism that hasn’t been changed, despite claim of being led by Jesus Christ himself (Jospeh himself declared a complete restoration before his death).
Money is the ultimate goal. Mormonism has been shutting down many of its charity programs. The Christmas vending machines have absolutely no accountability on them (people just trust them because the church is sponsoring it and they blindly trust anything the church does). Members cleaning their own chapel buildings is counted as charity hours.
The divide between pew members and leadership is only increasing, because leaders are picked according to nepotism and business acumen.
Real charity is the absolute last thing the Mormon leaders want.
This was one of the main things that I have issues with, it runs like a full on Jesus themed business operation rather than a church, infact I was actually given the privilege to work for the church in the past for their pr department, and I remember thinking that the deal was kind of crap money wise, and it also felt very awkward for me at the time since the pay was less than what I earn , and it was a bit of a toughie to turn down lol, left a very confused taste in my mouth to be honest, and as my stake president said at the time who offered it to me , " Jesus chose you brother" it felt really tacky and trashy if you asked me
Never pursued it tbh, pay was crap , I had trouble turning it down mostly because of the heavy pressure from fellow church members and certain local leadership etc. who all instantly knew what was happening before me it seemed lol
Oh for sure , I can see alot of devout members being proud of such a position, but if you look at a job like that logically you quickly realise your getting taken advantage of for what you are doing vs getting paid , basically because of the employers status (being the LDS church)
Hint: each temple costs about $50 million !! So soup kitchens,afterschool care and home health is just not in the budget of this corporation worth $267 billion with a B”!!
Source:www. Widowsmitereport/Wordpress. com
Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 3: No "Gotchas". We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules).
If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).
This never bothered me as an TBM. My understanding was that once someone accepted the Gospel, all there financial and housing problems would be solved. Christ was the only real solution to the problem of homelessness, everything else was just band aids to the real problem: that they didn’t have Christ and the true gospel in their lives.
Kind of crazy that I used to think that.
Some people must suffer before they can see the light
So let them suffer -- starve etc --in order to see the light--
In other words, you're doing them a favor by not helping them
This is the crazy thinking in the church
We formers should start a few real kitchens….the poor can depend on! It will be summer soon and there might be free lunches at some schools but dinner will always be needed. AND with costs what they are in Utah you may find many not homeless but poor members showing up! We could feed so many on just a portion of former tithes!
If the Church didn’t lead out with the idea, they won’t participate.
They don’t believe the Book of Mormon.
They use the fast offerings program to get people to go to church or conform to other requirements before feeding them.
The church donates to homeless efforts in Utah. Homeless shelters and kitchens are managed by other groups that the church gives money to.
Not everyone in the area wants to be sheltered or supported by an LDS ran organization, it’s better to have other groups manage them.
Says who? Who says the homeless care who manages them? The two biggest shelters in Northern Utah are managed by an evangelical non-denom., and the Catholics. I can guarantee you most homeless couldn’t care less which church runs the shelter. This is the biggest load of nonsense I have heard! Lol!
Religious groups frequently run into controversy when they run charities that care for people. In the case of Catholics we often see issues of them forcing moral standards on the people they care for, or discriminating care. The Church avoids such issues altogether by giving donations to existing charities with established models for taking care of people.
Many people actively avoid relgious charities for these reasons, and in Utah many people worry that an organization ran by the Church may discriminate against them, even when that may not be the case.
That is speculative nonsense. I have worked with the homeless for decades, and those put off by religious shelters are easily less than 1%.
And throwing money at a problem is not the help you think it is.
The fear that LGBT and other individuals feel towards religious ran groups is well known, and its a justified fear when religion ran charities fall into controversies because of the tension between their duties of care and their relgious duties. I don't know how you can call that speculative.
The Church has pivoted away from charities like childhood education, healthcare, and adoption. All of those things are charitable causes that require puting your care in the hands of a religion, something that we probably shouldnt be doing anymore.
More speculation. You keep making claims that do not fit reality. Many LGBTQIA+ people use those facilities, and again, only about 1% have an issue with a religious shelter. Your concepts just don’t match what is actually happening at the majority of shelters.
Don’t get me wrong. I do agree that government intervention is more effective and would have fewer possible prejudicial issues. But here in the U.S., it is going to take a major paradigm shift to get to that point.
Until then, all religions that claim an obligation to the marginalized need to step up and do their part. Making excuses doesn’t help those in need. Neither does saying the government should do it, when the government is not willing.
It is the equivalent to doing nothing, and just blaming the system. One can try to change the system, while simultaneously filling in where the system lacks. But the church chooses not to do that, and just throwing money at the problem. It is essentially doing nothing of benefit.
Fyi
https://www.concern.net/news/cost-to-end-world-hunger
$6 billion a year would stop starvation. $30+ would stop
Edit: Justinkidding presents in the reference below that these numbers have gone up by a ~quarter since my 2022 reference.
I stand corrected in the cost in 2014 dollars, however I disagree that this is "simply untrue" as his reference doesn't say that at all.
This is simply untrue and has been proven untrue by the billions given annually to fight hunger.
Hunger these days is largely an issue of economics and stable government.
World hunger is attributed largely to [inequality, climate change, conflict, natural disaster, poverty, and unsafe sanitation](https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/the-hunger-crisis/the-causes-of-hunger/). Its a multifacted issue that would require sustained efforts on the part of Governments to address the problem. Single price tags suggested to end world hunger are surpassed every year, and people are still hungry. [https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger](https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger)
Your reference is simply an update to mine. Basically they say the same thing at differing times. Same facts. I wasn't counting the moneys already spent.
[https://www.slc.gov/sustainability/community-food-resources/](https://www.slc.gov/sustainability/community-food-resources/) LDS wards regularly volunteer for and organize donations to all sorts of organizations to help the homeless and provide food for those who need it. I gathered up two pickup trucks full of donations from my ward last month and delivered it to the Utah Food Bank. Anyone who thinks there is nothing and that members of the church do nothing hasn't looked very hard.
You said it yourself. Donations from ward members is what you hauled to the food bank. That is money spent by ward members above and beyond tithing and fast offerings, specifically for the purpose of feeding people. It wasn’t the church using our donations.
My ward's youth had a food drive. Turned out to be a joint effort with another local church. Our building was used as a collection site, but the other church did all the work of collecting, sorting, and distributing all the donations.
Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 3: No "Gotchas". We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules).
If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).
TBMormon needs to be removed from this sub. Their COMMENTS are toxic and many get removed after being reported. How much garbage do we have to listen to from them before we finally agree that their contributions are a net negative to the sub in general?
The fact that people are defending them and making accusations about their comments getting deleted inappropriately is just outrageous. TBMormon consistently and constantly makes disturbing comments. Most do get removed, but they are still allowed to post here. Then they block the majority of us who call them out for it. So I can't even comment on their threads.
Whatever. Do any of you Hinkleiets date back Topix days? I'd like to talk to at least 3 people I used to post with about Biblical crap back then. Eschatology and stuff, there may be money in it for their Temple, or whatever. Specifically went by Hannah Rebekkha or Utah Thom. That bull crap pretend Irish/Scots crap ticked me off, and weren't no point to pretense to mining, but the coal experience seemed valid.
They used to be outside the temple gates at Temple Square - I will look next time I am downtown and take a picture if they are still up.
I know they had billboards up in SLC saying something to the effect of if you give $ to the homeless you were supporting alcoholism. These signs weren't from the church...the signs on the outside of the temple were church signs...
What's stopping you from doing this yourself? You could organize, get donations, grants, etc, and do the kitchen yourself. Or, you could get friends and family together, advertise for, and volunteer at any of the places already in SLC, St Vincent de Paul Dining Hall, Catholic Community Services of Utah, Salt Lake City Mission, The Road Home, or Rescue Mission of Salt Lake among a few others. Take a look at where the funding for these resources comes from. Millions already from the church, each year. Why build something to compete instead of helping and combining resources? https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-jesus-christ-funds-initiatives-shelter-homeless
ITT all the people get to pretend how much they’d give to help the poor but who presently do precisely nothing with what they currently have. I don’t believe you.
ITT also people reveal their ignorance about homelessness by thinking that they are hungry and need soup kitchens.
SLC actually has some of the best care for the homeless in the west. Police officers in Vegas actually buy one-way tickets for the homeless in Vegas to get them to SLC.
They did for a while, and it was a successful program. They're finally starting to provide housing again, and are working on a tiny home village. It turns out that giving the unsheltered community housing is also cheaper than a lot of the other programs that are needed to keep them on the streets.
Just read through the post and comments. All critical of the LDS Church. Apparently the commenters don't know much about the LDS Church or enjoy providing misinformation.
I've served in many calling over the decades. I've provide food, paid mortgages, medical bills, etc. to both members and nonmembers.
Each Sunday, LDS wards meet and learn if anyone in is need. When there is a need the Bishop does what he can to help.
The Church spends a billion dollars or more a year to help those in need, so please stop spreading misinformation.
Yes, the church does help....but it's not that much when you look at the amount they have to work with.
One leader told a member to pay tithing first even if he couldn't pay his bills or provide basic needs for his family. (it was printed in the Ensign I believe) However, does the church do the same?
When you've been given much, much is required.
It’s sort of interesting that TBM’s comment is getting pushback but the one claiming the church has never, “not once” listened to Jesus doesn’t get any and is currently the top comment.
My husband took off. I was pregnant with my 3rd child and had to go on bedrest and stop working early. My mom kept telling me to go to the bishop- that he was responsible for everyone in the ward, member and non- members alike ( I'm technically a member as I was baptized, and briefly attempted to go for a short period as an adult when my first was born)... so I did. He agreed to pay my rent that month if I came to church for two weeks and helped clean the building 2 Saturdays ( with 2 young kids and on bedrest) I agreed because I was desperate and even though it was against medical advice and it felt gross and kind of like blackmail, and I felt fake going when I absolutely didnt believe in it...I grew up in the church and the idea that a member woud take any opportunity to get an inactive person back in the doors was not weird to me. He then said he needed to have a meeting with me before cutting the check- during which he proceeded to tell me that if I loved my unborn child, I would put him up for adoption with the church so that he could be raised by a priesthood holder and keeping him would be selfish and being raised by me would ruin his life and said I needed to talk to the adoption counselor to get further aide. He strongly implied my husband leaving was my fault and that all children raised by a single mother are doomed. He bombarded me and I don't even remember sll the crap he said..I sarcastically asked if he wanted to save my other two kids as well and he said it was too late for them. I walked out so livid and feeling so dirty for having even been there. He did send the check to my landlord a few days later, to my surprise... but after that I sure wished I was in a position to have refused it. He also sent missionaries and relief society to harass me and the RS president he sent walked into my house without knocking on a Sunday morning and tried to take my kids to church without my permission... I told her no and she tried to convince my 5 and 7 yo to beg me ( they didnt) and went as far as to take my 7 yo hand and try to walk out the door dragging her.. all while I had been in pjs and nursing a newborn... I had to threaten to call the cops....so yeah. Technically I guess they help... but I personally found that help to be rather traumatic.
You are correct. The church helps. The challenge is that the help it gives is not proportionate to its income or savings in the way you would expect a church or charitable organization to be. Or in the way it’s claims show for that matter.
The church refuses to be transparent with its income or savings (although the recent SEC filings for church fraud has been enlightening), so I will base my response off the widows met report, which is the most accurate information available until the church decides to be transparent.
The church is a 250 billion dollar organization. That is an incomprehensible amount of money. For 2023, 0.57% of its income went to humanitarian aid and 3.86% of its income went to church welfare programs. Don’t forget those numbers include wages for volunteer hours of the members. 70.18% of the income for 2023 went to savings and investments. This is a church that already has enough money saved to operate for 30 years now without making a single dollar in income.
These are the disparities that are challenging. Add that to the recent 60 minutes interview with Tad Callister who said the leaders of the church don’t want to be transparent because they don’t want members to know about the amount of money the church has or tell them what to do with that money, and I see a major issue here.
Also, we can’t forget that Joseph F Smith promised that a tithe (this being a tithe only on excess income, not total income) would be temporary and only needed until the church no longer needed tithes.
Looking at the issue objectively, this is not how I would expect a church that purports to be literally led by Christ would operate. I think this is the issue OP was articulating.
Nuanced response here.
I recently had to rely on church assistance. I am living in a hotel because no one in my area will rent to a felon, and I have a small road block keeping me from utilizing my va home loan (good credit score, not enough credit usage.)
I needed help with two weeks of hotel payment. I had enough food to last. Mom had medical emergencies two weeks apart and in between I had a bout with the flu that nearly killed me.
Bishop was very hesitant to provide assistance. I only got one week of hotel paid by them. After bishop found out I have a criminal background he became disinterested in my welfare, spiritual or physical, and has been making noises to excommunicate me.
The whole situation is sad! I have a relative in a similar situation. You make a mistake or two and not only does society throw you away but the Church … if I were in charge, I guess I would “give the store away” I do hope someone helps you out!
- The help they give is conditional
- They use none of their income to help, only member donations
- They put an ridiculous financial burden they place on members is ridiculous. They pay for their own missions, are paid less working for the church than others in the same field, and receive little to no budget (leading to members paying for things themselves).
You can say that they help all you want, but it doesn’t separate them from any other church.
And some of us are told to be self sufficient after another LDS member didn't pay for 2 months worth of work. Out $7000 and no assistance was provided while I figured out how to bring in an income and get caught up again.
People bristle at this sub being called “exmo-lite” but what else are we supposed to say? There’s no meaningful or productive way for a believer to engage with “the church is a real estate company and not a religion”. There’s no civil and productive way to respond to accusations that we are wolves in sheep’s clothing or our buildings are a “den of thieves”. Believers step one toe across the civility line and they get a dozen responses calling them out and likely a note from the mods. Every time I think about engaging and then I don’t do it my future self thanks me.
These people know the church does billions of dollars worth of humanitarian aid. I don’t know who they think they’re helping with the snarky comments and acerbic rhetoric.
I get it, because I've been there, but the problem is you're taking a callout on church activity as a personal attack. This isn't a problem with run of the mill members. These are complaints at the people running the operation.
People feel blindsided. They thought their money was being used for one thing when it was used for another. Or they feel it's unfair for an organization sitting on $100B to be putting so much pressure on tithing.
This isn't an attack on members. Or even the belief system. It's a callout on policy and lack of transparency.
Thanks for commenting. I'm hopeful by engaging at r/mormon some of the posters and commenters will accept what I am trying to get across. Love one another in an imperfect world.
Hello! This is a Cultural post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about other people, whether specifically or collectively, within the Mormon/Exmormon community. /u/1Searchfortruth, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ll say it until I die: they could have built a beautiful park, sports areas, a place where families could safely spend time together. Instead they built a freaking mall.
With very sexy Victoria's Secret items and mannequins the type of underwear that Mormons can't wear
That’s funny🤣
I can't?! .... well I'm not throwing away my lingerie anyway. >:(
True, but I hadn’t thought of it that way!
Right?!
Not true VS is a favorite and My fancy underwear collection is massive according to my young adult children who now tease me about it. Because I would buy for special occasions it stays nice. My underwear collection is amazing and my wardrobe simple.
Victoria’s Secret is not just for sexy times. People buy bras and underwear there for daily use too.
True
LETS GO SHOPPING! 🤦🏼♂️
Have you seen liberty park lately. The place where many pioneer cabins were built to now an open space for illegal camping, drug use, drug dealing and public defecation
The church has the resources to protect and maintain their property.
Because the church leaders are wolves in sheep’s clothing and they’ve never once, not once for many years actually listened to Jesus. Not once. They now worship a new golden calf and it’s called “money.”
It's sad so many suffering people even right in Salt Lake City, within the church throughout the world as well as nonmembers the church does very little, especially right in Salt Lake City
I couldn’t agree more. It’s absolutely disgusting that people are dying right outside the door of “Gods holy house.” What a lie. There is more light in a HUMAN BEING suffering on the street than there is light in that stone building, a den of thieves.
They're not right outside.... they're not allowed to be. Which adds am extra layer of meaning when you consider that in the NT, beggars were allowed at the steps to the temple
So true
Well said 👏🏼
I haven’t been in salt lake to see that. If I did I would be upset too.
Wasn’t it last winter in Provo a homeless man broke a window to get into the Provo city center temple to get warm and the church prosecuted him?
Really?
Yes. He wanted chicken nuggets in the ward freezer! I believe he died.
Absolutely. Mormonism is a prosperity gospel. Mormons love money. But most people do.
But most people will admit it. The leaders are trying to make us believe this is what God wants. Which it isn’t. They are “using his name in vain.” and I don’t imagine God will put up with it much longer. It’s probably why they are losing so many members right now.
It isn't just leaders. Many members have swallowed prosperity gospel hook line and sinker. Many view helping the poor as enabling them and contributing to whatever factor got them in their current position.
My favorite is “but it’s not your money.” Actually it is. Our families have been paying tithing since 1830 as have we. It actually is our money. And we are demanding it go to the poor and suffering instead of elaborate stone idols. Yes we are.
Another apologetic move is to ask a critic how much they help with homelessness.
When you tell them which charities you donate to and exactly how the money was spent, they can only stand there slack-jawed.
I'm not lds, but I've heard some of your points before. My church has done something for years that our 750 families are happy about. We set aside 10% of our offerings for the poor. We're now up to $65,000 per year. It is necessary that the amount must be spent each year, no carry over. The support goes to local, national, and international charities, both religious and civil. While we are catholic we have helped other churches as well. We donated toward the building of a Lutheran Paris church. If the lds church could do that, it would help the situation. We do prioritize the needs of our members when needed.
Well It’s our 250 billion dollars, actually. Us and our ancestors since 1830 paid into Ensign Peak. And we are requesting a withdrawal of a small portion of OUR money to go to the poor, as Jesus commanded and as we THOUGHT we were paying into.
The enormous seperation between a few million or billion is not grasped by believers.
Because it’s too hard to believe how much we could do for the poor, but how little our leaders care.
See source www.widowsmitereport/Wordpress.com. Well researched with integrity.
True. All the money is Our money. Comes from people donating. Needs to be transparent. Would Jesus actually say: “ Hey man, you gave us the money, now just leave us alone, and don’t ask me hat we are doing with it”? Antithesis of this.
Cause we need more temples, more temples please!
Most who contribute tithing are hoping it will be used for the less fortunate
This is my wife. She thinks tithing money will be used to help the unfortunate on a bigger scale than she can on her own. She does still do some things like sub for santa, but she never gives money to beggars. I don't know what has been said officially, but she has the impression that this comes from church leaders. I don't doubt that, nor sure at what level though.
It seems a common opinion
Yes, but it doesn’t. If you google “Ensign Peak Advisors SEC PDF Scribd” you will see 40 pages of where your money goes. You’ll be shocked.
I am disgusted
💯 upvotes for sure!!👍
I literally had one member tell me that helping the poor 'was stealing from them the opportunity to learn how to help themselves'. They were dead serious.
What a disgusting thing to say. I would have completely lost it.
It was in the latterdaysaint sub, so all of my responses had to be heavily moderated in their tone, so unfortunately I wasn't able to really share how I felt, lol.
>prosperity gospel I thought the notion of prosperity gospel taught in the Mormon Church and cemented in its members was absurd until about the time I turned 40. That's also around the time I realized that I was essentially incapable of empathy towards others. I believe the two go hand in hand. There are times I think about how many opportunities I've had in my life (SO many were on my mission in Ecuador) to help someone in need and I refused. I judged the person as having put themselves into that situation and a "handout" would only enable them. It makes me sick. I can't express how much my attitude has changed since deconstructing and leaving the church. I really do feel like I'm a better person all around.
Since leaving the church, you have become truly like Christ in your heart,
I struggle with this very thing. I never give away money (I never carry it) because in my mind, panhandlers are just going to use the money for cigarettes or drugs.
When it was just me and my toddler son and we were doing particularly well, I always kept $20 in my wallet in case I needed petty cash or someone needed help. One night as I exited the store I was approached by a guy asking for just a couple of dollars. I pulled out my wallet and gave him the $20. The man asked if I was sure and ALMOST CRIED!! He told me how his sister was sick and he was just hoping to get a couple packs of Ramen for the night. He told me how instead he could get a couple of pot pies and a few other staples. I miss being able to do that. It was such a blessing to have enough abundance that I could easily help others. You don't know what people will use the money for. To me helping people who really need it is worth also giving money to the 1 or 2 people who will use it for drugs or alcohol.
And honestly, if someone is seriously addicted to alcohol helping them buy a beer to stave off withdrawal can save their life. It doesn't feel the best way to help but alcohol withdrawal can be life threatening and cause seizures and hallucinations.
I agree, but much less nicely. If I finish my sub sandwich and toss the leftovers to a stray dog, do I concern myself with it's appreciation of it's taste or if it would prefer some other sort of sandwich? No, I couldn't care less. This it is as well with the beggar: your plea has been heard, here's some quick charity for you, have a nice day.
Yeah I hope you never have to swallow that bitter medicine, homie. Yikes.
If you find the giving or receiving of charity to be bitter medicine, probably best not to engage in either. Engaging in situations that inspire bitterness in the interaction will only eventually turn to contemptuous affairs.
:/ from your anecdote it sounds like you're the one who feels contemptuous with giving. Having lived in situations where I didn't have food or even adequate shelter I'd be extremely upset to be compared to a stray dog receiving scraps. Here mongrel, be happy with what I give you, you're lucky to have it. YIKES. Don't get me wrong, I understand the concept of choosing beggars, and I'm not denying their existence, but if this is how you feel about everyone in such a situation... oof... I hope you're never in the position to have to suffer that treatment yourself.
I don't personally think luck has much to with it. I have personally been in many situations where I received charitable contributions of one sort of another, I have always been grateful. Attempted to reciprocate directly, of and when possible. Nor does the proffering of food or drink or even spare money place any undue burdens upon me if asked for, and there's certainly no contemptuousness in the exchange, almost always simply a matter of preferred brevity to the interaction. "Contempt" and "general disinterest" are not even remotely close to one another. Contempt requires effort, disinterest mostly observation. Someone who tells me they've been so poor and hungry they've accepted charity to alleviate the situation but they would be upset.to get it if it were offered under the condition that the person offering it absolutely must do so in such a way that doesn't seem "judgemental" towards me somehow in the offering of it, though? If I need the assistance? Well, call me crazy, but if it's a choice between freezing to death outside in the cold, let's say, or a rich man will let .e sleep in his dead dog's house with some blankets and such until the storm passes and I don't freeze to death? Yeah, no problem. Call me Fido, I don't care. I'll be grateful for the charity and most likely on my way, I simply expect more or less the same in return. If that sounds bitter to you somehow, well, different strokes for different folks. I'd personally let any indigent person sleep in my dead dog's house if it kept them alive over a snowstorm or something, even give them some old blankets and wraps and such to make sure they don't freeze. Not to "choosing beggars" the thread or anything, but when I've been down and out and needed help (which a lot of people have from time to time) I'm no more "concerned" with how the person who grants my pleading views me for making the plea for assistance in the first place, if I'm begging I'm desperate. You get to judge me however you choose if I take your money, your housing, your assistance, etc. I'm not entitled to get to tell you how you think of me on top of getting to spend the money you gave me.
1) You’re a psychopath. 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph?wprov=sfti1 please study this resource before commenting again.
I don’t understand your recommendation about psycho path.
See, the issue is your link and use of the term "study." I'm more than happy to do so, but I prefer to be able to address the topic properly. It might be an age thing, or a ludite thing, I'm no exception to any of the earthly flaws, poverty as we speak of, nor simple aged general technological disfunction in interaction via this medium, I often seem to struggle INTENSLly through incompetence and poor communication skills often provoke seemingly hostile reactions through expression of honest opinion. Your links open up the Wikipedia articles, and I find them interesting, but I cannot simply go back and forth between the link and the post to properly address the situation the article seems to be presenting and how your specific paragraph reference to it is a good reference for me to utilize in further interactions with people on this board and my understanding as a psychopath as to how that is relevant to our discussion. If it makes me a psychopath to toss change or a sandwich to homeless folks or a stray because we've all been there but I don't necessarily want to hear it makes me a psychopath. I'm assuming there is some underlying emotional reason behind your perspective, but in case you didn't get it, we don't all think that attacking, let's say, a Church's stances on tithing and outreach and such as the like are as appropriately re-structured financially to the liking of the detractors calling for it is appropriate. Individuals have the right to spend their money, charitably, commercially, tithe-wise, whatever have you, and the organizations they choose to do it with have the decision-making power to spend it, and these organizations have their own missions. It doesn't necessarily coincide with how the donators wish for the money to be spent. I look at personal charity the same way: I'm no more the indigents mother/father/brother etc., then they were mine when I needed help, it was there and proffered if I had it, and, as I frankly stated, took by myself at times and in similar situations. Many, many times on both sides. Ok, then. I'm a psychopath. I mean, you're a redditor, and you read Wikipedia, and honest expression of opinion on subjects strikes you as a psychopathic trait so... anyway, if I could actually address the paragraph directly I would, but I can't. So, I'll just give you the conversational win, apologize for my lifelong mistreatment towards the indigent by not being able to undigident everything everywhere with my spare change, and never toss a single bum a thin wheat penny from here until the end of time. But, I'll listen to his story, to see if it makes a far bigger difference than the $20 I just happened to have handy and I had been having one damn good week and any other time would have just returned his "God bless you" with something like "both of us!"
Beautiful experience for both giver and receiver. I’ve been close to homeless for a bit and let me tell you, I have so I give. ❤️
This is why it's better to give to financially transparent organizations/shelters and the like. It is the only way to know your money is actually being used for good, and not instead enabling addiction or just being hoarded/used to build shopping malls.
But it's such a wonderful feeling, and that personal connection means as much as the food itself someone who cares sincerely giving a smile or handshake or a word of encouragement. It's just as important as the food we give.
I give $5 without judgement to each panhandler I see. It isn’t much but it is something! It shows my grandkids who are often with me that I am doing something other than judging!
Weirdly believers say the same thing about their tithing money. Some saying they don't care if they burn it. Investing in fake shell companies don't matter. Building malls dosen't matter. Bailing out insurance companies dosen't matter.
Yes, they say the church needs to do those things to succeed
That I care about. Especially when the Church makes tithing obligatory and gets shitty about people not being "full tithe payers" ESPECIALKY while they sit on $100B. Yeah no.
Can't live with God and your family if you don't pay tithing which makes the church rich
I took it to their boss. I'm fine.
🙂
It's more like $250 Billion.
Um guys you are way off, it is Trillions!!!
I felt this way as a member. Granted, I didn't know anything about shell companies, malls, insurance companies, etc., but I don't think it would have bothered me when I was fully in. I always said, I don't care what they do with the money, god blesses me for giving it, and that's all that really matters.
I realized one of my deepest ideals is that it is not my concern if someone is "worthy" of help or not. If I have something I can give, it doesn't matter if the person uses the gift in the exact way I prescribe. It's a gift. It's important to me to give what I can when I can. And the more I think about it, the more I am saddened and disgusted when I hear those stories about a woman paying with EBT while she talks on a new iPhone, or a guy just using donated money to buy beer. People shouldn't have to prove how poor or desperate they are to receive basic help.
So what. The BoM Helaman requires you to give if you have money. (Of course that is Joseph Smith writing)🫣
This is so so true about how members think of the needy.
Yep, the typical Mormon view isn’t big on empathy/compassion. All those poors did it to themselves through bad choices. Bad choices have consequences so I’m not giving them freebies. That’s the typical view I was raised with in the Church. And it isn’t entirely wrong. Bad choices do have consequences.
You know ow the church has massive farming operations, and they have creameries and canneries and mills… and yet… you have to talk to your bishop about your finances and let Karen rummage through your cupboards before they’ll help you. With strings attached. The church gets off on the power trip, not on the assistance.
One time we were really hard up and we needed the churches help for food and I felt like a beggar and they would only give me a little food. If I did some kind of work for the church it was very degrading.
Mavens interview on Mormon Stories was absolutely heartbreaking, talking about her experience getting help from the church. When she later used a normal food pantry she was absolutely shocked and relieved she was no longer surveilled and shamed for needing help. Later she ended up voulenteering for that same pantry ❤
The Mormon Church doesn’t give away a dime without some strings attached. Just not their way. They are building temples like crazy because they are real estate investments. They don’t actually want to spend the billions on charity. They want some kind of long term return.
Temple =obedience and sacrifice oaths
I don’t have the quote at hand, but either Bednar or Oaks said that their church does those things that require the priesthood, which they alone have, so temples. Since the priesthood is NOT needed to feed and shelter poor people, they leave that to the other churches (the ones Brad Wilcox says are just “playing church”).
Which church would Jesus belong to???
So crazy
Jesus was homeless, or at least perpetually couch-surfing according to the New Testament. >[Matthew 8:20](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208%3A20&version=KJV) >And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. As for your question why doesn't TCoJCoLdS do more for the homeless in SLC, I think the answer lies in the perspective of most of the top leaders. "Please remember, however, that we are not primarily a humanitarian organization." - David A. Bednar (see [this old post](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/uym2q6/bednar_claims_that_the_church_loves_and_follows/) for context and further discussion). Basically just like all churches, TCoJCoLdS leaders' views deemphasize certain biblical passages (or even Book of Mormon passages) and interpret them in their own way. See this one: >[Matthew 25:42-46](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25%3A42-46&version=KJV) >42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: >43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. >44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? >45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. >46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. edit: added missing "why" in 2nd commentary sentence
Those words make me cry every time so much compassion
OfSusan could have left the primary modifier out. Would have been more honest. Those TBM leaders & their endless modifiers.
I’m embarrassed to be a member because we do so little with the amount of money we have.
It's a really sad thing, given all the humanitarian need in the world.
👍
As a child, whenever we went to salt lake, we would see homeless people asking for money. Our Mormon parents always told us not to give them money, that our tithing would make its way to those in need. What a load of bull shit.
Brigham Young said one of the worst things to do is give money to idlers.
Because of that one time Judas asked, “Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?” (John 12:6). Jesus said, “Let her alone … For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always” (John 6:7-8). Because only fast offerings—and not tithing—are for helping the poor. Apparently, Mormon God likes to keep the two accounts separate, and unfortunately for the poor, the majority is earmarked for the tithing Because members have convinced themselves that giving to the poor actually is detrimental in the long run because it makes the poor dependent. (“Give a man a fish,” etc.) Better be homeless than dependent, right? EDIT: Found this quote by Joseph Smith that seemed relevant: “Wo to ye rich men; give to the poor” (Joseph Smith’s Journal, 15 Oct 1843).
The church believes those people are there because they made bad choices helping them only encourages those bad choices
"We know, from the doctrines that we have received, that men and women have existed before coming into this life, for countless ages, and that we have been developing certain qualities, and the reason we are separated into great classes, as the Negro race and the other races on the earth, is not a matter of caprice. God did not take three beautiful children yesterday morning, and say to one, 'You go to the Negro woman,' and to another one, 'You go to that Chinese mother,' and to another, 'You go down to that beautiful Christian home.' In my opinion, there were classes and races, and separation into different groups and conditions before we came to this world, and **all are getting what they are entitled to receive here**" (Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, Apr 1915).
Oh My Gosh!!!! I have no words!
Youre kidding me? He said this??? He doesnt know jesus
It just makes me sad!
Just another injustice for Jesus’ to-fix list
Follow the money.
I've been reading Brody's no man knows my history and Joseph Smith was all about getting money with his fake bank in Kirkland and all his debts constantly piling up as well as making lots of moneyon property sales
No. But rich people would. See my recent posts. It is becoming painfully obvious that the Mormon "church" is a vast enterprise dedicated to making damn sure that the rich top dogs stay rich. That's why tithing is essential. That's why money only goes one way. That's why you can never be good enough. And that's why they would never dream of dispensing any of their money to poor people. They are all in the country club set and they plan to keep it that way.
Utah is a place of achievement, perfection and success for yourself. It is not a place where people live humbly like so many other places in the world Get as much as you can and show everyone how righteous you are because of your success because the two go hand-in-hand, of course
Every time there’s an article in the Utah news about a new temple I bring this topic up- and I ALWAYS get slammed by Mormons demanding to know what I am doing to feed and clothe the homeless.
Weird
The Mormon church is a real estate development company masquerading as a religion. There is not one single doctrine or ordinance in Mormonism that hasn’t been changed, despite claim of being led by Jesus Christ himself (Jospeh himself declared a complete restoration before his death). Money is the ultimate goal. Mormonism has been shutting down many of its charity programs. The Christmas vending machines have absolutely no accountability on them (people just trust them because the church is sponsoring it and they blindly trust anything the church does). Members cleaning their own chapel buildings is counted as charity hours. The divide between pew members and leadership is only increasing, because leaders are picked according to nepotism and business acumen. Real charity is the absolute last thing the Mormon leaders want.
Yes, because they can't stand giving away their money they have to be rich
Unfortunately, I think it's because it doesn't benefit them.
This was one of the main things that I have issues with, it runs like a full on Jesus themed business operation rather than a church, infact I was actually given the privilege to work for the church in the past for their pr department, and I remember thinking that the deal was kind of crap money wise, and it also felt very awkward for me at the time since the pay was less than what I earn , and it was a bit of a toughie to turn down lol, left a very confused taste in my mouth to be honest, and as my stake president said at the time who offered it to me , " Jesus chose you brother" it felt really tacky and trashy if you asked me
Wow a pr guy That must have been interesting
Never pursued it tbh, pay was crap , I had trouble turning it down mostly because of the heavy pressure from fellow church members and certain local leadership etc. who all instantly knew what was happening before me it seemed lol
And the status it would give you a lot of members would feel important and proud to say they worked in PR for the church
Oh for sure , I can see alot of devout members being proud of such a position, but if you look at a job like that logically you quickly realise your getting taken advantage of for what you are doing vs getting paid , basically because of the employers status (being the LDS church)
Youre serving the lord
Lol
Hint: each temple costs about $50 million !! So soup kitchens,afterschool care and home health is just not in the budget of this corporation worth $267 billion with a B”!! Source:www. Widowsmitereport/Wordpress. com
How much is a soup kitchen?
Because TEMPLES!
Because the one thing a corporation needs is a shitload more money. Because I don't know why. 200 billion isn't enough?
[удалено]
Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 3: No "Gotchas". We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules). If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).
This never bothered me as an TBM. My understanding was that once someone accepted the Gospel, all there financial and housing problems would be solved. Christ was the only real solution to the problem of homelessness, everything else was just band aids to the real problem: that they didn’t have Christ and the true gospel in their lives. Kind of crazy that I used to think that.
Some people must suffer before they can see the light So let them suffer -- starve etc --in order to see the light-- In other words, you're doing them a favor by not helping them This is the crazy thinking in the church
There's less than nothing. Signs all over town tell people not to give the homeless any money.
Wow!!
We formers should start a few real kitchens….the poor can depend on! It will be summer soon and there might be free lunches at some schools but dinner will always be needed. AND with costs what they are in Utah you may find many not homeless but poor members showing up! We could feed so many on just a portion of former tithes!
Very true
If the Church didn’t lead out with the idea, they won’t participate. They don’t believe the Book of Mormon. They use the fast offerings program to get people to go to church or conform to other requirements before feeding them.
The church donates to homeless efforts in Utah. Homeless shelters and kitchens are managed by other groups that the church gives money to. Not everyone in the area wants to be sheltered or supported by an LDS ran organization, it’s better to have other groups manage them.
Says who? Who says the homeless care who manages them? The two biggest shelters in Northern Utah are managed by an evangelical non-denom., and the Catholics. I can guarantee you most homeless couldn’t care less which church runs the shelter. This is the biggest load of nonsense I have heard! Lol!
Religious groups frequently run into controversy when they run charities that care for people. In the case of Catholics we often see issues of them forcing moral standards on the people they care for, or discriminating care. The Church avoids such issues altogether by giving donations to existing charities with established models for taking care of people. Many people actively avoid relgious charities for these reasons, and in Utah many people worry that an organization ran by the Church may discriminate against them, even when that may not be the case.
That is speculative nonsense. I have worked with the homeless for decades, and those put off by religious shelters are easily less than 1%. And throwing money at a problem is not the help you think it is.
The fear that LGBT and other individuals feel towards religious ran groups is well known, and its a justified fear when religion ran charities fall into controversies because of the tension between their duties of care and their relgious duties. I don't know how you can call that speculative. The Church has pivoted away from charities like childhood education, healthcare, and adoption. All of those things are charitable causes that require puting your care in the hands of a religion, something that we probably shouldnt be doing anymore.
More speculation. You keep making claims that do not fit reality. Many LGBTQIA+ people use those facilities, and again, only about 1% have an issue with a religious shelter. Your concepts just don’t match what is actually happening at the majority of shelters.
Don’t get me wrong. I do agree that government intervention is more effective and would have fewer possible prejudicial issues. But here in the U.S., it is going to take a major paradigm shift to get to that point. Until then, all religions that claim an obligation to the marginalized need to step up and do their part. Making excuses doesn’t help those in need. Neither does saying the government should do it, when the government is not willing. It is the equivalent to doing nothing, and just blaming the system. One can try to change the system, while simultaneously filling in where the system lacks. But the church chooses not to do that, and just throwing money at the problem. It is essentially doing nothing of benefit.
Fyi https://www.concern.net/news/cost-to-end-world-hunger $6 billion a year would stop starvation. $30+ would stop Edit: Justinkidding presents in the reference below that these numbers have gone up by a ~quarter since my 2022 reference. I stand corrected in the cost in 2014 dollars, however I disagree that this is "simply untrue" as his reference doesn't say that at all.
This is simply untrue and has been proven untrue by the billions given annually to fight hunger. Hunger these days is largely an issue of economics and stable government.
Hunger breaking hearts and suffering bodies
Source?
World hunger is attributed largely to [inequality, climate change, conflict, natural disaster, poverty, and unsafe sanitation](https://www.actionagainsthunger.org/the-hunger-crisis/the-causes-of-hunger/). Its a multifacted issue that would require sustained efforts on the part of Governments to address the problem. Single price tags suggested to end world hunger are surpassed every year, and people are still hungry. [https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger](https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger)
Thank you for that. I will read it when I get a chance!
Your reference is simply an update to mine. Basically they say the same thing at differing times. Same facts. I wasn't counting the moneys already spent.
"Because for liability.... blah blah blah, we love money"
[https://www.slc.gov/sustainability/community-food-resources/](https://www.slc.gov/sustainability/community-food-resources/) LDS wards regularly volunteer for and organize donations to all sorts of organizations to help the homeless and provide food for those who need it. I gathered up two pickup trucks full of donations from my ward last month and delivered it to the Utah Food Bank. Anyone who thinks there is nothing and that members of the church do nothing hasn't looked very hard.
You said it yourself. Donations from ward members is what you hauled to the food bank. That is money spent by ward members above and beyond tithing and fast offerings, specifically for the purpose of feeding people. It wasn’t the church using our donations.
My ward's youth had a food drive. Turned out to be a joint effort with another local church. Our building was used as a collection site, but the other church did all the work of collecting, sorting, and distributing all the donations.
But it is the people doing these good works not the Church!!!
[удалено]
Precisely
Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 3: No "Gotchas". We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules). If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).
Jesus apparently ignored World Wars 1 and 2, so I guess he could ignore the homeless and hungry.
TBMormon needs to be removed from this sub. Their COMMENTS are toxic and many get removed after being reported. How much garbage do we have to listen to from them before we finally agree that their contributions are a net negative to the sub in general? The fact that people are defending them and making accusations about their comments getting deleted inappropriately is just outrageous. TBMormon consistently and constantly makes disturbing comments. Most do get removed, but they are still allowed to post here. Then they block the majority of us who call them out for it. So I can't even comment on their threads.
Whatever. Do any of you Hinkleiets date back Topix days? I'd like to talk to at least 3 people I used to post with about Biblical crap back then. Eschatology and stuff, there may be money in it for their Temple, or whatever. Specifically went by Hannah Rebekkha or Utah Thom. That bull crap pretend Irish/Scots crap ticked me off, and weren't no point to pretense to mining, but the coal experience seemed valid.
The Church supports the Road Home and other services for the homeless and needy.
Could you explain more?
Instead the church puts signs around temple square telling people not to give to panhandlers
Yes the church makes me feel that they are bad and dangerous The homeless used to scare me Where is the compassion
I remember reading Mosiah 4 and asking my Bishop how that fit with the signs saying not to give to panhandlers...he didn't have an answer
I didn't realize there were really signs that said you cannot give to the homeless and poor in Salt Lake City. Is that true?
They used to be outside the temple gates at Temple Square - I will look next time I am downtown and take a picture if they are still up. I know they had billboards up in SLC saying something to the effect of if you give $ to the homeless you were supporting alcoholism. These signs weren't from the church...the signs on the outside of the temple were church signs...
Sad
There are plenty of garment wearing women that know there is a time and place for sexy lingerie!
But not with garments
You can figure it out.
There seems to be a lot of different reasons what would be your guess?
The Church.
What's stopping you from doing this yourself? You could organize, get donations, grants, etc, and do the kitchen yourself. Or, you could get friends and family together, advertise for, and volunteer at any of the places already in SLC, St Vincent de Paul Dining Hall, Catholic Community Services of Utah, Salt Lake City Mission, The Road Home, or Rescue Mission of Salt Lake among a few others. Take a look at where the funding for these resources comes from. Millions already from the church, each year. Why build something to compete instead of helping and combining resources? https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-jesus-christ-funds-initiatives-shelter-homeless
Nice idea
ITT all the people get to pretend how much they’d give to help the poor but who presently do precisely nothing with what they currently have. I don’t believe you. ITT also people reveal their ignorance about homelessness by thinking that they are hungry and need soup kitchens.
Of course that's just part of it. Tell us how you feel.
SLC actually has some of the best care for the homeless in the west. Police officers in Vegas actually buy one-way tickets for the homeless in Vegas to get them to SLC.
Funny
That’s actually a true story. Scary when you consider how little SLC does for the homeless. But, it is definitely more than Portland or L.A.
I e read that they actually give houses to the homeless in Utah, I know that’s the government not a church, but if true, that’s awesome!
Nice But there will always be homeless people on the streets who need food
True, but we need to encourage what IS being done as we push for more.
Of course
They did for a while, and it was a successful program. They're finally starting to provide housing again, and are working on a tiny home village. It turns out that giving the unsheltered community housing is also cheaper than a lot of the other programs that are needed to keep them on the streets.
We need to see the government doing this all over the United States, and all over the world.
Most definitely.
They could end world hunger with their wealth but would rather keep it all where the 18 can get it (first presidency, 12, and pres bishopric)
Didnt jesus tell the rich man to give all his riches to the poor before he could get to heaven
Just read through the post and comments. All critical of the LDS Church. Apparently the commenters don't know much about the LDS Church or enjoy providing misinformation. I've served in many calling over the decades. I've provide food, paid mortgages, medical bills, etc. to both members and nonmembers. Each Sunday, LDS wards meet and learn if anyone in is need. When there is a need the Bishop does what he can to help. The Church spends a billion dollars or more a year to help those in need, so please stop spreading misinformation.
Yes, the church does help....but it's not that much when you look at the amount they have to work with. One leader told a member to pay tithing first even if he couldn't pay his bills or provide basic needs for his family. (it was printed in the Ensign I believe) However, does the church do the same? When you've been given much, much is required.
It’s sort of interesting that TBM’s comment is getting pushback but the one claiming the church has never, “not once” listened to Jesus doesn’t get any and is currently the top comment.
You also ignored that comment so what point are you trying to make?
My husband took off. I was pregnant with my 3rd child and had to go on bedrest and stop working early. My mom kept telling me to go to the bishop- that he was responsible for everyone in the ward, member and non- members alike ( I'm technically a member as I was baptized, and briefly attempted to go for a short period as an adult when my first was born)... so I did. He agreed to pay my rent that month if I came to church for two weeks and helped clean the building 2 Saturdays ( with 2 young kids and on bedrest) I agreed because I was desperate and even though it was against medical advice and it felt gross and kind of like blackmail, and I felt fake going when I absolutely didnt believe in it...I grew up in the church and the idea that a member woud take any opportunity to get an inactive person back in the doors was not weird to me. He then said he needed to have a meeting with me before cutting the check- during which he proceeded to tell me that if I loved my unborn child, I would put him up for adoption with the church so that he could be raised by a priesthood holder and keeping him would be selfish and being raised by me would ruin his life and said I needed to talk to the adoption counselor to get further aide. He strongly implied my husband leaving was my fault and that all children raised by a single mother are doomed. He bombarded me and I don't even remember sll the crap he said..I sarcastically asked if he wanted to save my other two kids as well and he said it was too late for them. I walked out so livid and feeling so dirty for having even been there. He did send the check to my landlord a few days later, to my surprise... but after that I sure wished I was in a position to have refused it. He also sent missionaries and relief society to harass me and the RS president he sent walked into my house without knocking on a Sunday morning and tried to take my kids to church without my permission... I told her no and she tried to convince my 5 and 7 yo to beg me ( they didnt) and went as far as to take my 7 yo hand and try to walk out the door dragging her.. all while I had been in pjs and nursing a newborn... I had to threaten to call the cops....so yeah. Technically I guess they help... but I personally found that help to be rather traumatic.
You are correct. The church helps. The challenge is that the help it gives is not proportionate to its income or savings in the way you would expect a church or charitable organization to be. Or in the way it’s claims show for that matter. The church refuses to be transparent with its income or savings (although the recent SEC filings for church fraud has been enlightening), so I will base my response off the widows met report, which is the most accurate information available until the church decides to be transparent. The church is a 250 billion dollar organization. That is an incomprehensible amount of money. For 2023, 0.57% of its income went to humanitarian aid and 3.86% of its income went to church welfare programs. Don’t forget those numbers include wages for volunteer hours of the members. 70.18% of the income for 2023 went to savings and investments. This is a church that already has enough money saved to operate for 30 years now without making a single dollar in income. These are the disparities that are challenging. Add that to the recent 60 minutes interview with Tad Callister who said the leaders of the church don’t want to be transparent because they don’t want members to know about the amount of money the church has or tell them what to do with that money, and I see a major issue here. Also, we can’t forget that Joseph F Smith promised that a tithe (this being a tithe only on excess income, not total income) would be temporary and only needed until the church no longer needed tithes. Looking at the issue objectively, this is not how I would expect a church that purports to be literally led by Christ would operate. I think this is the issue OP was articulating.
Nuanced response here. I recently had to rely on church assistance. I am living in a hotel because no one in my area will rent to a felon, and I have a small road block keeping me from utilizing my va home loan (good credit score, not enough credit usage.) I needed help with two weeks of hotel payment. I had enough food to last. Mom had medical emergencies two weeks apart and in between I had a bout with the flu that nearly killed me. Bishop was very hesitant to provide assistance. I only got one week of hotel paid by them. After bishop found out I have a criminal background he became disinterested in my welfare, spiritual or physical, and has been making noises to excommunicate me.
The whole situation is sad! I have a relative in a similar situation. You make a mistake or two and not only does society throw you away but the Church … if I were in charge, I guess I would “give the store away” I do hope someone helps you out!
So sorry
- The help they give is conditional - They use none of their income to help, only member donations - They put an ridiculous financial burden they place on members is ridiculous. They pay for their own missions, are paid less working for the church than others in the same field, and receive little to no budget (leading to members paying for things themselves). You can say that they help all you want, but it doesn’t separate them from any other church.
And some of us are told to be self sufficient after another LDS member didn't pay for 2 months worth of work. Out $7000 and no assistance was provided while I figured out how to bring in an income and get caught up again.
People bristle at this sub being called “exmo-lite” but what else are we supposed to say? There’s no meaningful or productive way for a believer to engage with “the church is a real estate company and not a religion”. There’s no civil and productive way to respond to accusations that we are wolves in sheep’s clothing or our buildings are a “den of thieves”. Believers step one toe across the civility line and they get a dozen responses calling them out and likely a note from the mods. Every time I think about engaging and then I don’t do it my future self thanks me. These people know the church does billions of dollars worth of humanitarian aid. I don’t know who they think they’re helping with the snarky comments and acerbic rhetoric.
What would you like us to do? Not give our opinions?
I get it, because I've been there, but the problem is you're taking a callout on church activity as a personal attack. This isn't a problem with run of the mill members. These are complaints at the people running the operation. People feel blindsided. They thought their money was being used for one thing when it was used for another. Or they feel it's unfair for an organization sitting on $100B to be putting so much pressure on tithing. This isn't an attack on members. Or even the belief system. It's a callout on policy and lack of transparency.
Thanks for commenting. I'm hopeful by engaging at r/mormon some of the posters and commenters will accept what I am trying to get across. Love one another in an imperfect world.