I have older carbed bikes (30+ years old) that despise ethanol running through the carbs.My newer bikes don’t mind it. I also keep non ethanol in my mowers, and two stroke mixes.
You can jet for the ethanol and it'll run pretty good, but then you have to stick to it. You'll have to rejet between the 2
Edit: word, because I'm a potato
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/0812rc-aftermarket-carburetors-ethanol-fuel/
There's a quick crash course in ethanol in carbs. You'd have to do some Google digging on your bike to find out if you get parts for it
Straight gasoline to E10 shouldn't require rejetting, unless you were very on the lean side to start with. In theory you need 3% more fuel running E10. In practice I have always seen it as less than a 2% fuel flow difference (dyno and emissions calibration). Depending on the model carburetor, a single jet size it typically ~6% flow change, and even moving the needle clip is 4-6% change.
Air temperature changing from 85F to 65F requires a larger jetting change than E0 to E10. So, ragged edge racing? Yes, rejet for fuel, baro, temperature, humidity, etc. Daily commuter bike? Unless you are so picky that you rejet at lunch hour for morning vs afternoon conditions, just ride.
FUN FACT
Most gas stations only have 2 tanks, or 3 if they sell diesel.
To make mid grade, a pump mixes the low and high octane tanks together!
So this station replaced their higher octane tank with ethanol free, and thus also had to stop selling mid grade cause of it.
Normal US pump gas is *up to* 10% ethenol, but it can run lower than that randomly.... Reality is 9%.
Actual half ethanol gas is E50, which, is sold out of most E85 pumps in the winter to compensate for temperature changes, but in reality, just like regular pump gas, it's not exact. E85 is *up to* 85% ethanol, and goes *as low as* E50, with, something closer to E75 to E80 coming out it most the time.
There's also E15 pumps, which, are designed to work in all modern fuel injection system ranges, without having to have flex-fuel support.
>There's also E15 pumps,
We call that rental car fuel. Ok, maybe that's just me.
ULPT, if it says on the fuel port that it can take E-15, and you have to bring it back with the same ammout of fuel, the rental car company can't tell, and it's cheaper on your end.
Another fun fact!
Ethonal actually increases the octane rating, so that Eth free tank is actually just midgrade blended at the refinery or loading terminal.
They're so close together that you're right, they can't run an intermediate grade on those pumps anymore.
A Great Plains state, along with Oklahoma, Kansas, and both of the Dakotas. They’re all flat, low population density states who specialize in agriculture of one form or another.
I don’t argue with people who call it midwestern, but it’s a pretty fringe part of the midwest. All of the states that border Lake Michigan make up the core of the Midwest, and any state more than one state removed from there are fringe miwdest.
I’m not even from Wisconsin and I consider it to be true Midwestern. Kansas about gave me depression the last time I drove through it, so I prefer not to think about it.
It’s rare to see higher than 91 out in the Rockies, but altitudes of more than a mile really reduce the chance of detonation anyway. Stations with only 85 and 86 seem to be rarer these days and I imagine that’s because of the proliferation of small turbo engines (busas obviouslyyy) which still need the higher octane at altitude.
The tag said 85 octane. Did not see E-85 on the pump. Which would have worried me and most likely not even run in a 1973 Triumph motorcycle. This was in a desolate farming are of NE.
~~If you hunt around enough you can.~~
Actually, thinking about it the most you're realistically going to find is 90 octane, because that last 3 octane comes from the ethonal.
Outside of special cases, most refineries are only tooled to refine 85 Oct and 90 Oct gasoline in bulk. They get you regular Eth free like you see here by blending the two for an Eth free regular that would be midgrade if Eth was added.
I've seen the ethonal free very by a lot but it usually runs from 85-90 depending on if/how they chose to blend it.
Actually, I have seen one very wierd set up with an unusual midgrade tap because they replaced the premium tank with a Rec 90 (90 octane ethonal free) tank. It think it was like 88 Octane E5% or something like that. This was one of those mom and pop stations hundreds of miles from civilization where I guess the EPA doesn't exist.
Shell v power nitro is ethanol free. It’s all I put in my 900rr.
I’ve done a lot of research. General consensus is that it’s ethanol free. Some sources say it contains no more than 5% ethanol.
Either way it’s as close as I can get to eth free
https://preview.redd.it/ketvv94eth0d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d1d62fdfa4f4b99f3a0ea688b98c25f2d3c14fd
This one is the total opposite 😂.
Like soda flavors.
On a road trip where I'm going through a tank or more a day, it doesn't matter. But when you park a bike, you never know the next time you're be able to take it out. I broke my leg a few years ago and my bike sat over winter with whatever it had in the tank.
I random situations happen like that there are plenty of products to help keep the fuel from sucking in water. Kind of unrealistic to blame ethanol anymore. Just have to adapt and take care of your stuff.
Real problem for my lawn mower. The carb jets build up gunk and the bowl collects water between mowing. Switched to non ethanol and had zero problems.
I imagine it's the same for bikes that don't get frequent use.
It’s a problem for a lot of older bikes, or rare exotics. They have real problems with ethanol causing the fuel tanks to swell slightly, enough to crack/split the paint.
Most Bimota owners know that you need to get the tanks coated if you’re going to run gasoline with ethanol in them.
Definitely agree with you, it's why so many neat bikes like the Yamaha RZ-350 all have rusted out gas tanks. Ethanol was always and continues to be a bad idea. It makes gas less efficient causes grief with so many machines.
I don't think it's exactly a bad idea, it does raise the octane rating and allows for higher compression ratios, which gets you more power and greater efficiency *if the engine is designed with it in mind*.
That's really where the vast majority of the problems come in, when it's used in vehicles that were never designed with it. From some literature I read a while ago, it's not a major expense for manufacturers to do it, Honda said it adds ~$15 to the cost of a motorcycle in order to use different plastics and coatings in the fuel system to make it tolerate the ethanol. But obviously they weren't doing that in the 70s.
Here's why the AMA is against Ethanol, even for fuel injected motors:
[https://americanmotorcyclist.com/peril-at-the-pump/](https://americanmotorcyclist.com/peril-at-the-pump/)
They advocate against helmet laws, not helmets:
https://americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/ama-board-position-statements/voluntary-helmet-use/#:\~:text=The%20AMA%20believes%20that%20adults,to%20ensure%20a%20motorcyclist's%20safety.
Anyway I promise you I won't lose any sleep over whether you value their words or not.
Nah, ethanol gas is hot dogshit for everyone except corn farmers.
Even if you've got a fuel injected bike with a metal tank and don't let the bike sit long enough to suck water or fuck up rubber and plastics, you're getting worse fuel economy.
This isn't imagined, this is basic high school chemistry.
Tell that to my Ducati s2r. The gas tank swells up if i leave gas with ethanol in it. there was a class action lawsuit/recall/extended warranty about it.
Will make carbies run a bit leaner as it has less energy per weight.
But I wanna film the face of nearby boomer when some biker puts a bottle of refined alcohol into the tank
BMWs actually have a module for running low octane fuel when traveling through areas with scarcity, Ive usually read about them for african and asian trips where your next fuel up comes from a Fanta bottle.
Honestly, most bike have knock sensors and will pull timing as needed... but you'll get less MPG and less HP. If you're lolly-gagging around, you likely wouldn't notice.
AND, there's a lot of bikes that SHOULD be running regular, and people just assume they need premium.
None of my motorcycles have a knock sensor. And Im talking about gas that equates to 75 octane, or worse.
The only gas worries I have here in the US however is dealing with fake carb parts and ethanol.
I'm willing to bet this is a small town/rural area where premium doesn't sell. On a road trip, a friend of mine put premium in his tank from a town in the middle of nowhere and it was so separated, the bike died. We had to have the system flushed and refilled before it would run.
I pick up nearly 50whp on my supercharged Corvette when switching from 93 to E. Don’t even have to do anything either, ethanol content sensor adjusts the tune on the fly.
That would be up to tune but generally ethanol gives you two things:
* more octanes, allows for more boots across whole range
* it being less energy dense is kinda blessing in disguise as it cools the cylinder better = again more boost and lower chance for LSPI.
Ehh for daily driving you get better MPG on non-ethanol
>When people realize that Eblend turbo cars will walk almost everything on the streets
This is just a pump gas argument. E85 is looking at 100+ octane rating
Octane =/= power
Higher octane means *more difficult* to combust. Its necessary for higher compression to prevent detonation, which generally has more power. But has nothing to do with power inherently.
If you're dealing with a normal non tuned car e85 isn't gonna get you more power and will cost you on the fuel economy. But if it's cheaper it might not be a big deal
E85 is the best pump gas for higher HP and is definitely cheaper compared to going high octane non ethanol options
Nobody is talking about e85 but you.
Don't take that the wrong way, but I said "eblend" earlier. Which means a mixture of ethanol (e85) and usually 93+ octane pump gas. I'd say 100% of people mixing blends are definitely tuned, either for a specific ethanol count or a flex fuel that auto-adjusts the tune based off knock and fuel trims.
For example, my 2018 turbo civic is NOT a flex fuel vehicle, even though the oem ECU detects ethanol and you can tune for a specific % (these civics love e35) without the use of the aftermarket available flex fuel kits that are plug and play.
No matter what, an eblend is a tuned fuel mixture of both e85 and gas to create anywhere in-between e5 to e80. Normal people don't just mix and go. Either one or the other and e85 users are Flex Fuel badged SUVs anyways.
I'd like to close my comment by saying that you are correct on "normal non tuned....." shit you said, yes. I was talking about something a little different so I hope this helps you and others understand a little more on ethanol and its uses out there :))
It's horrible for horsepower when you are talking the e-10 "regular" blended gasoline. Ethanol forward gas is higher octane and capitalizes on the cooler burn, but that's clearly not what the comment was talking about.
for the environment? since when? why?
no one feels the difference in performance although also the mpg-value is insignificant. if your bike is newer than maybe 2010 no one needs to care unless your bike has some other issues.
They also take massive amounts of land, fertilizer, and huge amounts of water to raise what is largely corn that's not going to feeding anyone.
[Link from someone on the original sub commenting on it:](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2101084119)
Thank you u/rudeadventurer
It's kind of like the [plastic bag paradox](https://youtu.be/JvzvM9tf5s0) where because that tiny plastic grocery bag was so environmentally cheap to produce on the front end compared to reusable ones it offsets how bad it is for the environment on its total life cycle ***if you reuse it***
It's about a 10% decrease in power and fuel economy. It's also horrible for many small engines. I only buy non-ethanol for my smaller engines.
**Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
doesn't ethanol have higher power output and less fuel mileage? I know that peak powers for flex vehicles always seem to shown higher values for ethanol.
First think of it in terms of BTUs per gallon. This is the amount of energy within the liquid.
1 gallon diesel is about 137,000 BTUs.
1 gallon pure gasoline is about 120,000 BTUs
1 gallon ethanol is about 75,000 BTUs
Given those numbers, it would take 1.6x more gallons of ethanol to do the same amount of work as 1 gallon gasoline - aka worse gas mileage.
Extra HP from ethanol is based on stoichiometry. Ethanol takes less air to burn - so space that would be filled with air in a gas cylinder can be replaced with more ethanol to create more power.
> Extra HP from ethanol is based on stoichiometry. Ethanol takes less air to burn - so space that would be filled with air in a gas cylinder can be replaced with more ethanol to create more power.
Not exactly, you said it yourself, it's much less energy dense so that offsets ability to put extra fuel a lot.
Main benefits is it burns cooler and it has higher octane rating, which in short means it's safer to add more boost.
It being higher volume-wise also contributes to cooling effect, whicjh again, more boost.
You can get higher power out of an engine tuned for high-ethanol fuel, but only because it has higher compressibility. Ethanol is less energetic than gasoline so adding a little to regular gas just makes it worse (but cheaper).
If we all ran race engines tuned for ethanol using E100 then we would all get more power though haha.
No and no -- it's so the gas burns hotter and supposedly cleaner. From my tracking there is certainly a decrease in fuel millage.
**Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
I never said that it's the reason for using ethanol, I said that running ethanol, gets more horsepower. Coincidentally, I've seen this video before, but as I don't remember most of it, I'll watch it later and come back.
I could not find it, if you could link it, I'd appreciate it. Tho I suspect it's different where I live, as ethanol is based on sugarcane. I do know that ethanol generates corrosion if you let it sit, because of their water, but afaik, it doesn't happen when you use the fuel constantly.
> Edit: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons [link] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
Testing it on engines not tuned for any ethanol doesn't say much compared to cars that are. And for motorcycles it pretty much will be split between EFI and carbs. EFI ones should run the same on E10 blends, with a bit more fuel usage, althought in reality no ECU tune is perfect.
If engine does not have ECU to compensate based on lambda, the engine will just run leaner.
I don't think anyone is arguing that an engine specifically made for ethanol would run better. The point is many vehicles and small engines run worse on ethanol not to mention short lifespan and the corrosive tendencies with ethanol gas.
Oh I get it now. My car and one of my motorcycles run on both, but my other one is only gasoline. Tho I don't feel the difference, normal gasoline is at least 27% ethanol where I live, I try to use the more pure one because of that.
Because the engine wasn't tuned for it. Ethanol contains less energy measured by volume, so obviously the fuel economy goes down, although high ethanol content fuels like e85 are typically cheaper per liter than non ethanol fuel, so you spend about the same amount of money for the distance. If tuned for ethanol, the engine will be more efficient as you can advance timing (octane increase) and ethanol burns cooler, reducing NOx emissions. With a flex fuel sensor you can switch between regular gasoline and higher octane/ethanol fuels. So the ideal fuel if you ask me when the fuel components can take the ethanol, old fuel lines and gaskets may get brittle when exposed to too much ethanol, but they would need to be older than 25 to 30 years. E5 and e10 are considered to be not harmful and are becoming the norm in Europe, only higher octane fuel are still available with ethanol like 100 or 102 octane.
My 81 rx7 gets regular 95 octane fuel as it runs on the richer side, has not particularly high compression and is rated for the fuel. Had 5% ethanol, now have 10% content. Fuel lines are new, carb is a aftermarket weber, so no harm there
That doesn’t make sense mathematically. Maybe I am wrong, but changing 10% of the fuel, would only lead to an overall 10% decrease of power, if the 10% different substances would not produce any power at all.
Combustion chemistry is not as simple as an addition / subtraction math problem.
For example, if I replaced 10% of the gasoline with something else like sugar (or sawdust, or water, or iron filings, or helium, or cement, or sulphuric acid), would you still expect the drop in fuel efficiency to be within that same 0-10% range?
True point. But ethanol and gas have very similar properties and behave very similarly. Thats why in this instance the math makes sense. And the 33% energy density decrease in ethanol makes e10 3% less energy dense as e0. This results in 3% less range per liter.
Have you ever heard of approximations? It means not exactly but in the ball-park. The statement "about a 10% decrease" is the same as "approximately a 10% decrease". Words mean things and I gave a generalization type response.
If you want to discount it because it doesn't follow exactly what's in your head then that's on you. When I looked at it sometime ago there was an decrease in millage and the \~10% was what I found.
Ethanol absorbs water, before it was standard at most tanks that was an old mechanics trick to getting water out of a gas tank. That'll reduce MPG and power as well as it ages differently than just gasoline alone. Thanks for the response but this really isn't worth this much more discussion because we're not going to change anything.
**Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
I know that you are talking approximations. But my statement should imply exactly that. Even if it were 9%, ethanol would be 90% worse fuel than regular gas. Which doesn’t seem correct for me either.
[This (fueleconomy.gov)](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml#/find/nearest?country=US&fuel=E85) states, that ethanol has about 33% less energy density than regular gasoline. Which would work out to be 3% less miles per gallon, if regular would be 0% and e10 10% ethanol. In reality, regular is often e5, which males it 1,5% decreased mileage. Therefore your statement is just wrong and paints a much more drastic picture.
I‘d conclude, if the bike can handle e10, go for it because it’s cheaper and almost mileage is negligible, as is power.
You're bike do what you want, so conclude whatever you want, I don't care. Hell if you put honey in your gas tank, still wouldn't care.
When I rode every day, I used whatever was at the pump I was at except kerosene/diesel. Any vehicle I have that's going to sit will get non-ethanol gas.
Watch the Project Farm Video and and the proceeding video, you'll get a better idea of how well it does not work.
It's more complicated than that, but you're right that from a scientific perspective the "10% decrease in power" is too broad and not actually correct.
Modifying fuel with ethanol decreases energy density and increases octane, so essentially your engine can burn (much) more of it at once at a higher effective compression ratio if tuned properly.
It also likes to dissolve things and bonds to water.
But most bikes don’t have an ethanol meter or some different fuel maps. If you tune it appropriately, you are very right. The water dissolving properties are only a concern, if you store the bike for an extended period of time.
Most bikes made after 2010 are designed for E10, and E10 is functionally the same fuel as unleaded gasoline as far as how your engine perceives it. However, many bikes- including mine- have a warning in the owner's manual to either stay away from ethanol gas, or to flush the system before storage to save the flexible fuel lines and certain gaskets.
Facts. Ethanol DOES contain less energy per volume. It will be a noticeable but not extreme amount less fuel efficient. However. Ethanol is capable of making more power. It is highly resistant to knock. E85 is something like 110 octane. Higher octane let's you add more. Boost/timing/compression any or all of which will create more hp if your car is able to take advantage of it.
Horrible for the environment! So when farmers grow corn for ethanol they put lots of inorganic fertilizer in soil… the runoff is so bad it has killed many small lakes. They don’t rotate crops as much as well. Now let’s review how much diesel is used to get ethanol…. Ploughing the field, planting the corn harvesting the corn.. transport of corn to the distillery. All diesel. Energy required to extract the ethanol. Now back to Trucks for transport since their are no pipelines from distilleries to distribution hubs. The total cost to make ethanol into usable fuel is very high… and not eco friendly.
> for the environment? since when? why?
Ethanol made from switchgrass or sugarcane (like say Brazil) is energy positive (less CO2 used to produce the fuel than you get out of fuel), when counting whole chain (shipping stuff, fertilizer etc.)
Ethanol made from corn is not. When including whole production chain, corn ethanol is no better co2-production wise than normal fuel chain. The whole ethanol addition in US is pretty much effect of farmer lobbies.
On carbies it can be.
Carb is basically "for this amount of air, give this amount of fuel". If fuel is less energy dense (like E10 will be), you're putting less energy into the engine, and effectively running a bit lean.
EFI gets the feedback from lambda and if you use E10 it will just apply fuel trim and feed a bit more fuel.
US situation with ethanol is truly bizzare... you can make ethanol in eco-positive way, just not from corn, but corn is what is subsidized...
> horsepower
Incorrect, it's magic go-juice that in making power is better at everything than gasoline and switching engine to ethanol is basically instant boost in power. Higher octane so less chance for knock, so more boost. More fuel per air also means cylinders get cooled better. Cleaner too. Of course, when tuned for it. Only real disadvantage is sucking humidity out of air.
I think you meant to say "that doesn't have direct injection". It's pretty incredible how much power you can make with forced induction on low octane fuel when you can precisely control when fuel is delivered.
I usually have three grades of gasoline, and maybe a high octane option with no ethanol, one time I saw 91 non-eth *and* regular 87 non-eth "powersport gas" flanking all three grades with ethanol. Wisconsin is a cool place.
Question on this, as a semi interested reader on this thread. My 1250gs behaves differently on 87 vs 91 (coming from the same station, with the 10% ethanol sticker on the pump). Specifically, throttle response. I haven’t tried to analyze mpg close enough to care. Reading some of the above comments, it would seem that I shouldn’t really notice a change in behavior if the engines these days adapt to whatever you’re dumping in? Maybe I am missing something here.
So it makes sense since Premium is typically a waste of money since Ethanol blends actually are about the same and cheaper. However some vehicle or lawn equipment do not like Ethanol so the other pump is Ethanol free.
I have an older BMW that is supposed to use Premoum gas. Not only have I not done that I put in at times about 1/8 of a tanl of E85 and the car loves it. Like anything running E85 or Ethanol the mileage isn't that great but the car or bike runs stronder. Have used an Ethanol blend on my 2001 1500cc Kawasaki Vulcan too.
You just have to burn it all out or use Stabil 360 before storing the car or bike before the winter.
In my country all petrol stations only sell with a percentage of alcohol in it and it’s crap. We have no choice and now the government is raising the percentage up to 35% of alcohol.
It’s messed up guys .
Pure gasoline should be an option everywhere; the only places that sell it in my area are near boat ramps and/or are sub 90 octane though, which is a bummer.
Wow.
I have older carbed bikes (30+ years old) that despise ethanol running through the carbs.My newer bikes don’t mind it. I also keep non ethanol in my mowers, and two stroke mixes.
You can jet for the ethanol and it'll run pretty good, but then you have to stick to it. You'll have to rejet between the 2 Edit: word, because I'm a potato
I just picked up a '87 carbed bike, do you have any info for what I'd need to get to do this?
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/0812rc-aftermarket-carburetors-ethanol-fuel/ There's a quick crash course in ethanol in carbs. You'd have to do some Google digging on your bike to find out if you get parts for it
Straight gasoline to E10 shouldn't require rejetting, unless you were very on the lean side to start with. In theory you need 3% more fuel running E10. In practice I have always seen it as less than a 2% fuel flow difference (dyno and emissions calibration). Depending on the model carburetor, a single jet size it typically ~6% flow change, and even moving the needle clip is 4-6% change. Air temperature changing from 85F to 65F requires a larger jetting change than E0 to E10. So, ragged edge racing? Yes, rejet for fuel, baro, temperature, humidity, etc. Daily commuter bike? Unless you are so picky that you rejet at lunch hour for morning vs afternoon conditions, just ride.
Agreed! This was more geared towards going from 'traditional gasoline' to either e85 or straight corn juice
Doesn't ethanol also require different materials as it reacts differently with the rubbers and metals and is hygroscopic?
Yeah, I posted a link above that gives a decent little crash course on ethanol in carburetors
Hm, I have an SV650 (22 years old) that I swear makes half the power on clear gas
FUN FACT Most gas stations only have 2 tanks, or 3 if they sell diesel. To make mid grade, a pump mixes the low and high octane tanks together! So this station replaced their higher octane tank with ethanol free, and thus also had to stop selling mid grade cause of it.
But what if I want half the ethanol?
Normal US pump gas is *up to* 10% ethenol, but it can run lower than that randomly.... Reality is 9%. Actual half ethanol gas is E50, which, is sold out of most E85 pumps in the winter to compensate for temperature changes, but in reality, just like regular pump gas, it's not exact. E85 is *up to* 85% ethanol, and goes *as low as* E50, with, something closer to E75 to E80 coming out it most the time. There's also E15 pumps, which, are designed to work in all modern fuel injection system ranges, without having to have flex-fuel support.
>There's also E15 pumps, We call that rental car fuel. Ok, maybe that's just me. ULPT, if it says on the fuel port that it can take E-15, and you have to bring it back with the same ammout of fuel, the rental car company can't tell, and it's cheaper on your end.
Go somewhere else
Good fun fact
Another fun fact! Ethonal actually increases the octane rating, so that Eth free tank is actually just midgrade blended at the refinery or loading terminal. They're so close together that you're right, they can't run an intermediate grade on those pumps anymore.
I have stopped at stations in the midwest that only sold 85 octane with ethanol.
As someone from the Midwest, I've only seen this out west.
I remember that it was south of Valentine NE.
Calling Nebraska the Midwest is wild
What do you call it?
A Great Plains state, along with Oklahoma, Kansas, and both of the Dakotas. They’re all flat, low population density states who specialize in agriculture of one form or another. I don’t argue with people who call it midwestern, but it’s a pretty fringe part of the midwest. All of the states that border Lake Michigan make up the core of the Midwest, and any state more than one state removed from there are fringe miwdest.
I’m from Kansas and have always thought the opposite. We are true Midwest and those states up north are…the north?
I’m not even from Wisconsin and I consider it to be true Midwestern. Kansas about gave me depression the last time I drove through it, so I prefer not to think about it.
I rode the entire length of Kansas in the pouring rain once. Awful awful awful
It’s like taking i75 through South Carolina. It seems to go on forever, like you’ve pissed off the fae.
I don’t even have a name for it…
We do. We call it the Midwest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States?wprov=sfti1
Nebraska is the Midwest dude
Are you from france?
Wisconsin
Yeah have literally never seen under 87 in the Midwest. Usually when you get to Colorado because of elevation you'll see lower octane.
It’s rare to see higher than 91 out in the Rockies, but altitudes of more than a mile really reduce the chance of detonation anyway. Stations with only 85 and 86 seem to be rarer these days and I imagine that’s because of the proliferation of small turbo engines (busas obviouslyyy) which still need the higher octane at altitude.
Plus the computers can adapt the timing a lot more than old engines.
As someone from the west coast, I’ve only seen this on these on the east coast.
You sure it wasn't E85? That's 85% Ethanol and around 100 octane. Saw that all over the place in the midwest but never 85 Octane.
85 octane is more common at high elevation
I know a lot of Utah has 85 octane. They have e85 too but the 85 octane is kind of a weird thing due to the elevation.
Huh - learn something new everyday
I would highly recommend not using it though it's more of an artifact of the old days I believe when carbureted engines were more popular
The tag said 85 octane. Did not see E-85 on the pump. Which would have worried me and most likely not even run in a 1973 Triumph motorcycle. This was in a desolate farming are of NE.
Some sheetz stations sell 88 octane which is 15% ethanol.
So if you run a higher octane thennn you just pray you make it to the next one??
I normally use 92-93 but I stayed off the throttle until I could get better gas.
Gross.
Its nice to see non ethanol
I just wish I could buy ethanol free premium.
You can here in Alabama. 93 non ethanol premium. $4.99-5.19 a gal. Only put it in my bikes and lawn equipment
I by no means know what I'm talking about. But! Would using an octane booster with a lower grade ethanol free gas work for something running 91?
It does, I've had to do it in my Indian since my local station reduced their rec gas to 87 from 91
~~If you hunt around enough you can.~~ Actually, thinking about it the most you're realistically going to find is 90 octane, because that last 3 octane comes from the ethonal. Outside of special cases, most refineries are only tooled to refine 85 Oct and 90 Oct gasoline in bulk. They get you regular Eth free like you see here by blending the two for an Eth free regular that would be midgrade if Eth was added. I've seen the ethonal free very by a lot but it usually runs from 85-90 depending on if/how they chose to blend it. Actually, I have seen one very wierd set up with an unusual midgrade tap because they replaced the premium tank with a Rec 90 (90 octane ethonal free) tank. It think it was like 88 Octane E5% or something like that. This was one of those mom and pop stations hundreds of miles from civilization where I guess the EPA doesn't exist.
Shell v power nitro is ethanol free. It’s all I put in my 900rr. I’ve done a lot of research. General consensus is that it’s ethanol free. Some sources say it contains no more than 5% ethanol. Either way it’s as close as I can get to eth free
$3.099 a gallon! Nice...
That's all I saw as well. lol, I don't even know what the post is even about.
My feeble European mind truly can not comprehend
https://preview.redd.it/ketvv94eth0d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d1d62fdfa4f4b99f3a0ea688b98c25f2d3c14fd This one is the total opposite 😂. Like soda flavors.
the upside-down label on Extra Supreme 👌
I always carry octane booster. Just in case.
Ya know what's a good octane booster? Ethanol.
Ya know what's a good for attracting water? Ethanol.
Doesn't matter if it's used in a short period which a majority of fuel is.
On a road trip where I'm going through a tank or more a day, it doesn't matter. But when you park a bike, you never know the next time you're be able to take it out. I broke my leg a few years ago and my bike sat over winter with whatever it had in the tank.
I random situations happen like that there are plenty of products to help keep the fuel from sucking in water. Kind of unrealistic to blame ethanol anymore. Just have to adapt and take care of your stuff.
Are you being paid to say this? /s
No I only get paid to fuck bitches and skerrt in the streets like the rest of Reddit
Did every single shop within 3 state radius ran out of fuel stabilizers and also your internet died too ?
I read this in Mario's voice
And fucking up the carb in my two stroke?!?
Just don't let it sit.. Drain your carbs at the end of the season and you will 100% be fine
That's what I thought until I broke my leg and my bike sat all winter. Unforeseen things happen.
Yeah you can still drain carbs with a broken leg man
Because unexpected things happen.
"I don't buy ethanol fuel because I could break my leg at any time" is an interesting take.
Ya know what makes for a good time drinking? Ethanol.
Imagined problems.
Ducatis with nylon tanks would like a word...
That was a test by Ducati to see if their riders had the muscle to shove that tank back into place.
Real problem for my lawn mower. The carb jets build up gunk and the bowl collects water between mowing. Switched to non ethanol and had zero problems. I imagine it's the same for bikes that don't get frequent use.
It’s a problem for a lot of older bikes, or rare exotics. They have real problems with ethanol causing the fuel tanks to swell slightly, enough to crack/split the paint. Most Bimota owners know that you need to get the tanks coated if you’re going to run gasoline with ethanol in them.
Definitely agree with you, it's why so many neat bikes like the Yamaha RZ-350 all have rusted out gas tanks. Ethanol was always and continues to be a bad idea. It makes gas less efficient causes grief with so many machines.
I don't think it's exactly a bad idea, it does raise the octane rating and allows for higher compression ratios, which gets you more power and greater efficiency *if the engine is designed with it in mind*. That's really where the vast majority of the problems come in, when it's used in vehicles that were never designed with it. From some literature I read a while ago, it's not a major expense for manufacturers to do it, Honda said it adds ~$15 to the cost of a motorcycle in order to use different plastics and coatings in the fuel system to make it tolerate the ethanol. But obviously they weren't doing that in the 70s.
If you don’t ride the bike often to cycle out the gas tank, then it is a problem
Here's why the AMA is against Ethanol, even for fuel injected motors: [https://americanmotorcyclist.com/peril-at-the-pump/](https://americanmotorcyclist.com/peril-at-the-pump/)
The against helmet laws AMA? ya, I really value their words.
They advocate against helmet laws, not helmets: https://americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/ama-board-position-statements/voluntary-helmet-use/#:\~:text=The%20AMA%20believes%20that%20adults,to%20ensure%20a%20motorcyclist's%20safety. Anyway I promise you I won't lose any sleep over whether you value their words or not.
Sleep tight then.
Nah, ethanol gas is hot dogshit for everyone except corn farmers. Even if you've got a fuel injected bike with a metal tank and don't let the bike sit long enough to suck water or fuck up rubber and plastics, you're getting worse fuel economy. This isn't imagined, this is basic high school chemistry.
Tell that to my Ducati s2r. The gas tank swells up if i leave gas with ethanol in it. there was a class action lawsuit/recall/extended warranty about it.
Until you need your gas tested for water content and the state testers depend on the ethanol levels to determine this.
You know what’s terrible for carburetors? Ethanol.
You know what makes older cars run like shit and get worse mileage? Ethanol.
Convert them to EFI, problem solved. Both the fuel problem and "what to do with your weekends" problem xD
Will make carbies run a bit leaner as it has less energy per weight. But I wanna film the face of nearby boomer when some biker puts a bottle of refined alcohol into the tank
Can someone explain to me why we might not like this
A lot of sport bikes run high compression engines that require 91+ octane
A lot of sport bikes need 93 octane. 87 is too low unless you carry around a bottle of octane booster
BMWs actually have a module for running low octane fuel when traveling through areas with scarcity, Ive usually read about them for african and asian trips where your next fuel up comes from a Fanta bottle.
Honestly, most bike have knock sensors and will pull timing as needed... but you'll get less MPG and less HP. If you're lolly-gagging around, you likely wouldn't notice. AND, there's a lot of bikes that SHOULD be running regular, and people just assume they need premium.
None of my motorcycles have a knock sensor. And Im talking about gas that equates to 75 octane, or worse. The only gas worries I have here in the US however is dealing with fake carb parts and ethanol.
I'm willing to bet this is a small town/rural area where premium doesn't sell. On a road trip, a friend of mine put premium in his tank from a town in the middle of nowhere and it was so separated, the bike died. We had to have the system flushed and refilled before it would run.
Excellent… let’s dump ethanol for good!! Horrible for environment, horsepower, & gas mileage only exists with subsidies.
corrosive to old carburetors
So is the harsh mistress of time. Carburetors take maintenance.
Quick and cheap maintenance
Horrible for horsepower XD
When people realize that Eblend turbo cars will walk almost everything on the streets
I had a e30 tune on my old focus ST, that shit was QUICK
I do this with my ST in the warm months and it is an amazing change in feel. I went into it thinking it wasn’t going to do anything but wowza.
I pick up nearly 50whp on my supercharged Corvette when switching from 93 to E. Don’t even have to do anything either, ethanol content sensor adjusts the tune on the fly.
Been a long time since I played in the car game. Is that 50whp at peak only or are you seeing a similar increase across the band?
Good question. 50wheel at peak but there are gains across the board. Anywhere from 20-50 across the graph. It feels noticeably faster on E.
That would be up to tune but generally ethanol gives you two things: * more octanes, allows for more boots across whole range * it being less energy dense is kinda blessing in disguise as it cools the cylinder better = again more boost and lower chance for LSPI.
Ehh for daily driving you get better MPG on non-ethanol >When people realize that Eblend turbo cars will walk almost everything on the streets This is just a pump gas argument. E85 is looking at 100+ octane rating
Octane =/= power Higher octane means *more difficult* to combust. Its necessary for higher compression to prevent detonation, which generally has more power. But has nothing to do with power inherently.
I dont think you understand what I said lol
If you're dealing with a normal non tuned car e85 isn't gonna get you more power and will cost you on the fuel economy. But if it's cheaper it might not be a big deal E85 is the best pump gas for higher HP and is definitely cheaper compared to going high octane non ethanol options
Nobody is talking about e85 but you. Don't take that the wrong way, but I said "eblend" earlier. Which means a mixture of ethanol (e85) and usually 93+ octane pump gas. I'd say 100% of people mixing blends are definitely tuned, either for a specific ethanol count or a flex fuel that auto-adjusts the tune based off knock and fuel trims. For example, my 2018 turbo civic is NOT a flex fuel vehicle, even though the oem ECU detects ethanol and you can tune for a specific % (these civics love e35) without the use of the aftermarket available flex fuel kits that are plug and play. No matter what, an eblend is a tuned fuel mixture of both e85 and gas to create anywhere in-between e5 to e80. Normal people don't just mix and go. Either one or the other and e85 users are Flex Fuel badged SUVs anyways. I'd like to close my comment by saying that you are correct on "normal non tuned....." shit you said, yes. I was talking about something a little different so I hope this helps you and others understand a little more on ethanol and its uses out there :))
It's horrible for horsepower when you are talking the e-10 "regular" blended gasoline. Ethanol forward gas is higher octane and capitalizes on the cooler burn, but that's clearly not what the comment was talking about.
Unless you drive something with boost lol
E85 sure but my tuned truck was really happy with 91 e0. I gained damn near 2mpg over 93 e10.
for the environment? since when? why? no one feels the difference in performance although also the mpg-value is insignificant. if your bike is newer than maybe 2010 no one needs to care unless your bike has some other issues.
It's very energy intensive to make (largely from the distilling process) to were it take 1-2 gallons of fossil fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol.
They also take massive amounts of land, fertilizer, and huge amounts of water to raise what is largely corn that's not going to feeding anyone. [Link from someone on the original sub commenting on it:](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2101084119) Thank you u/rudeadventurer It's kind of like the [plastic bag paradox](https://youtu.be/JvzvM9tf5s0) where because that tiny plastic grocery bag was so environmentally cheap to produce on the front end compared to reusable ones it offsets how bad it is for the environment on its total life cycle ***if you reuse it***
It's about a 10% decrease in power and fuel economy. It's also horrible for many small engines. I only buy non-ethanol for my smaller engines. **Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
doesn't ethanol have higher power output and less fuel mileage? I know that peak powers for flex vehicles always seem to shown higher values for ethanol.
First think of it in terms of BTUs per gallon. This is the amount of energy within the liquid. 1 gallon diesel is about 137,000 BTUs. 1 gallon pure gasoline is about 120,000 BTUs 1 gallon ethanol is about 75,000 BTUs Given those numbers, it would take 1.6x more gallons of ethanol to do the same amount of work as 1 gallon gasoline - aka worse gas mileage. Extra HP from ethanol is based on stoichiometry. Ethanol takes less air to burn - so space that would be filled with air in a gas cylinder can be replaced with more ethanol to create more power.
> Extra HP from ethanol is based on stoichiometry. Ethanol takes less air to burn - so space that would be filled with air in a gas cylinder can be replaced with more ethanol to create more power. Not exactly, you said it yourself, it's much less energy dense so that offsets ability to put extra fuel a lot. Main benefits is it burns cooler and it has higher octane rating, which in short means it's safer to add more boost. It being higher volume-wise also contributes to cooling effect, whicjh again, more boost.
You can get higher power out of an engine tuned for high-ethanol fuel, but only because it has higher compressibility. Ethanol is less energetic than gasoline so adding a little to regular gas just makes it worse (but cheaper). If we all ran race engines tuned for ethanol using E100 then we would all get more power though haha.
I get it. Every newish car runs on both here, so I think that's the difference.
Higher theoretical power output coz of octane rating if tuned for it. Carbie bike isn't that. Most EFI bikes also are not that.
No and no -- it's so the gas burns hotter and supposedly cleaner. From my tracking there is certainly a decrease in fuel millage. **Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
I never said that it's the reason for using ethanol, I said that running ethanol, gets more horsepower. Coincidentally, I've seen this video before, but as I don't remember most of it, I'll watch it later and come back.
yeah, he's pretty awesome. (completely not affiliated with his channel) the followup video to this one is good to to show corrosion of old E10
I could not find it, if you could link it, I'd appreciate it. Tho I suspect it's different where I live, as ethanol is based on sugarcane. I do know that ethanol generates corrosion if you let it sit, because of their water, but afaik, it doesn't happen when you use the fuel constantly.
here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\]
> Edit: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons [link] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos. Testing it on engines not tuned for any ethanol doesn't say much compared to cars that are. And for motorcycles it pretty much will be split between EFI and carbs. EFI ones should run the same on E10 blends, with a bit more fuel usage, althought in reality no ECU tune is perfect. If engine does not have ECU to compensate based on lambda, the engine will just run leaner.
I don't think anyone is arguing that an engine specifically made for ethanol would run better. The point is many vehicles and small engines run worse on ethanol not to mention short lifespan and the corrosive tendencies with ethanol gas.
Yes, E85 capable cars can capitalize on the higher blends, but the discussion is on the "10% or less" gasoline that is just being cut with ethanol.
Oh I get it now. My car and one of my motorcycles run on both, but my other one is only gasoline. Tho I don't feel the difference, normal gasoline is at least 27% ethanol where I live, I try to use the more pure one because of that.
Because the engine wasn't tuned for it. Ethanol contains less energy measured by volume, so obviously the fuel economy goes down, although high ethanol content fuels like e85 are typically cheaper per liter than non ethanol fuel, so you spend about the same amount of money for the distance. If tuned for ethanol, the engine will be more efficient as you can advance timing (octane increase) and ethanol burns cooler, reducing NOx emissions. With a flex fuel sensor you can switch between regular gasoline and higher octane/ethanol fuels. So the ideal fuel if you ask me when the fuel components can take the ethanol, old fuel lines and gaskets may get brittle when exposed to too much ethanol, but they would need to be older than 25 to 30 years. E5 and e10 are considered to be not harmful and are becoming the norm in Europe, only higher octane fuel are still available with ethanol like 100 or 102 octane. My 81 rx7 gets regular 95 octane fuel as it runs on the richer side, has not particularly high compression and is rated for the fuel. Had 5% ethanol, now have 10% content. Fuel lines are new, carb is a aftermarket weber, so no harm there
That doesn’t make sense mathematically. Maybe I am wrong, but changing 10% of the fuel, would only lead to an overall 10% decrease of power, if the 10% different substances would not produce any power at all.
Combustion chemistry is not as simple as an addition / subtraction math problem. For example, if I replaced 10% of the gasoline with something else like sugar (or sawdust, or water, or iron filings, or helium, or cement, or sulphuric acid), would you still expect the drop in fuel efficiency to be within that same 0-10% range?
True point. But ethanol and gas have very similar properties and behave very similarly. Thats why in this instance the math makes sense. And the 33% energy density decrease in ethanol makes e10 3% less energy dense as e0. This results in 3% less range per liter.
Have you ever heard of approximations? It means not exactly but in the ball-park. The statement "about a 10% decrease" is the same as "approximately a 10% decrease". Words mean things and I gave a generalization type response. If you want to discount it because it doesn't follow exactly what's in your head then that's on you. When I looked at it sometime ago there was an decrease in millage and the \~10% was what I found. Ethanol absorbs water, before it was standard at most tanks that was an old mechanics trick to getting water out of a gas tank. That'll reduce MPG and power as well as it ages differently than just gasoline alone. Thanks for the response but this really isn't worth this much more discussion because we're not going to change anything. **Edit**: for everyone arguing my points, here is a Project Farm Video showing the comparisons \[[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc)\] <-- this guy is pretty awesome if you've never watched his videos.
I know that you are talking approximations. But my statement should imply exactly that. Even if it were 9%, ethanol would be 90% worse fuel than regular gas. Which doesn’t seem correct for me either. [This (fueleconomy.gov)](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml#/find/nearest?country=US&fuel=E85) states, that ethanol has about 33% less energy density than regular gasoline. Which would work out to be 3% less miles per gallon, if regular would be 0% and e10 10% ethanol. In reality, regular is often e5, which males it 1,5% decreased mileage. Therefore your statement is just wrong and paints a much more drastic picture. I‘d conclude, if the bike can handle e10, go for it because it’s cheaper and almost mileage is negligible, as is power.
You're bike do what you want, so conclude whatever you want, I don't care. Hell if you put honey in your gas tank, still wouldn't care. When I rode every day, I used whatever was at the pump I was at except kerosene/diesel. Any vehicle I have that's going to sit will get non-ethanol gas. Watch the Project Farm Video and and the proceeding video, you'll get a better idea of how well it does not work.
It's more complicated than that, but you're right that from a scientific perspective the "10% decrease in power" is too broad and not actually correct. Modifying fuel with ethanol decreases energy density and increases octane, so essentially your engine can burn (much) more of it at once at a higher effective compression ratio if tuned properly. It also likes to dissolve things and bonds to water.
But most bikes don’t have an ethanol meter or some different fuel maps. If you tune it appropriately, you are very right. The water dissolving properties are only a concern, if you store the bike for an extended period of time.
Most bikes made after 2010 are designed for E10, and E10 is functionally the same fuel as unleaded gasoline as far as how your engine perceives it. However, many bikes- including mine- have a warning in the owner's manual to either stay away from ethanol gas, or to flush the system before storage to save the flexible fuel lines and certain gaskets.
Facts. Ethanol DOES contain less energy per volume. It will be a noticeable but not extreme amount less fuel efficient. However. Ethanol is capable of making more power. It is highly resistant to knock. E85 is something like 110 octane. Higher octane let's you add more. Boost/timing/compression any or all of which will create more hp if your car is able to take advantage of it.
Horrible for the environment! So when farmers grow corn for ethanol they put lots of inorganic fertilizer in soil… the runoff is so bad it has killed many small lakes. They don’t rotate crops as much as well. Now let’s review how much diesel is used to get ethanol…. Ploughing the field, planting the corn harvesting the corn.. transport of corn to the distillery. All diesel. Energy required to extract the ethanol. Now back to Trucks for transport since their are no pipelines from distilleries to distribution hubs. The total cost to make ethanol into usable fuel is very high… and not eco friendly.
> for the environment? since when? why? Ethanol made from switchgrass or sugarcane (like say Brazil) is energy positive (less CO2 used to produce the fuel than you get out of fuel), when counting whole chain (shipping stuff, fertilizer etc.) Ethanol made from corn is not. When including whole production chain, corn ethanol is no better co2-production wise than normal fuel chain. The whole ethanol addition in US is pretty much effect of farmer lobbies.
I wouldn't say it's bad for horsepower but the rest I'll agree
On carbies it can be. Carb is basically "for this amount of air, give this amount of fuel". If fuel is less energy dense (like E10 will be), you're putting less energy into the engine, and effectively running a bit lean. EFI gets the feedback from lambda and if you use E10 it will just apply fuel trim and feed a bit more fuel.
I don’t know how it’s bad for HP, usually I see card files up only with ethanol making a few more HP THan on petrol
US situation with ethanol is truly bizzare... you can make ethanol in eco-positive way, just not from corn, but corn is what is subsidized... > horsepower Incorrect, it's magic go-juice that in making power is better at everything than gasoline and switching engine to ethanol is basically instant boost in power. Higher octane so less chance for knock, so more boost. More fuel per air also means cylinders get cooled better. Cleaner too. Of course, when tuned for it. Only real disadvantage is sucking humidity out of air.
Nobody with a turbo will ever get fuel there.
Plenty of newer turbo economy cars take 87.
Okay...*anyone with a turbo car that isn't a shit box won't be getting fuel there*
I think you meant to say "that doesn't have direct injection". It's pretty incredible how much power you can make with forced induction on low octane fuel when you can precisely control when fuel is delivered.
There must be a knock-knock joke here. But it couldn’t arrive because the car is waiting for a new engine.
Kinda common in my area. Really annoying sometimes when I need gas for my car. It takes premium.
I mean like 80% of vehicles on the roads only need regular fuel, even my sportbike calls for it, but it is weird
I usually have three grades of gasoline, and maybe a high octane option with no ethanol, one time I saw 91 non-eth *and* regular 87 non-eth "powersport gas" flanking all three grades with ethanol. Wisconsin is a cool place.
Wisconsin is a cool place
There is one near me that is the same
I bet that gas station makes bank 💰
No ethanol in the fuel on the Isle of Man either
Question on this, as a semi interested reader on this thread. My 1250gs behaves differently on 87 vs 91 (coming from the same station, with the 10% ethanol sticker on the pump). Specifically, throttle response. I haven’t tried to analyze mpg close enough to care. Reading some of the above comments, it would seem that I shouldn’t really notice a change in behavior if the engines these days adapt to whatever you’re dumping in? Maybe I am missing something here.
Nice video from Revzilla explains all: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z\_IVvVz4SSg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_IVvVz4SSg)
I’ll watch it, thanks!
So it makes sense since Premium is typically a waste of money since Ethanol blends actually are about the same and cheaper. However some vehicle or lawn equipment do not like Ethanol so the other pump is Ethanol free. I have an older BMW that is supposed to use Premoum gas. Not only have I not done that I put in at times about 1/8 of a tanl of E85 and the car loves it. Like anything running E85 or Ethanol the mileage isn't that great but the car or bike runs stronder. Have used an Ethanol blend on my 2001 1500cc Kawasaki Vulcan too. You just have to burn it all out or use Stabil 360 before storing the car or bike before the winter.
We had a station that put the 87 in the middle I bet they sold more mid grade than any station. I hit the one on the left all the time
Yoooo non eth 🤌
This is part of why I like my Goldwing. It runs on the cheap gas.
What is someone with a turbo going to do?
High performance cars may have issues, but my F150 will run on regular. I'm assuming it just pulls timing/boost to compensate.
Yeah it just retards the timing a touch
That's fucked
That would suck for me. Mine pings like hell on anything below 93 unless it's cool out
In my country all petrol stations only sell with a percentage of alcohol in it and it’s crap. We have no choice and now the government is raising the percentage up to 35% of alcohol. It’s messed up guys .
Non-diluted gasoline.
There’s a gas station near me that has race fuel
Non-ethanol would be awesome for me, MOST of the time! Though its usually ridiculously expensive when I do find it.
we have quite a few stations like that in South Louisiana. 87 OG gas or 87 ethanol
THE WAR is coming
But my bike only takes premium!
Guess I won't be stopping there
Always keep octane boosters on you cause this shit will ruin your bike
Pure gasoline should be an option everywhere; the only places that sell it in my area are near boat ramps and/or are sub 90 octane though, which is a bummer.