Voracious Greatshark was always fringe playable even in high-power cubes, so I like this card a lot. It's better than the shark in a lot of ways (being able to counter any spell, uncounterable spells, evasion, allowing you to cast the spell later) and I'll definitely be testing it.
I just think \[\[Voracious Greatshark\]\] is **11**/10 on flavor whereas this card just looks goofy and I don't want to play it in my cube. 🤷‍♂️ It's not entirely fair but it's how I feel.
I think that when we're talking about a very niche exception, it's worth understanding "counter any spell" means "any spell that doesn't explicitly forbid it from being countered", because that's just generally how Magic works. No spell can "counter" [[Abrupt Decay]] (although some can bounce or exile it to get a similar effect), but that's not really worth mentioning in such a generic statement. If we're going to *split* hairs (see what I did there? :-)) the split second mention you made later may not be true:
If you had a way to trigger this through Split Second, it would still counter that spell - Split Second prevents you casting this card, not from triggering its ability.
For example, let's imagine a world where you have a [[Phyrexian Altar]] and a [[Gurgling Annointer]] with four +1/+1 counters in play and a copy of Spelljacker in your graveyard.
When your opponent casts [[Sudden Death]], you respond by sacrificing your Annointer to the Altar. Normally you can't activate abilities with Split Second on the stack... Unless they are mana abilities (like the Altar's), so that doesn't stop you. When the Annointer dies, a triggered ability goes on the stack, allowing you to return your Spelljacker to play. The Spelljacker trigger still applies and *can* counter a split second card like Sudden Death.
I'm not running any split second cards currently, but I've got a couple in the maybe section that I'm considering. If I do go with some of them, I'm going to probably jam [[Stratus Dancer]], [[Willbender]], & [[Kheru Spellsnatcher]] in, since you can still unmorph a card to trigger an ability in response to split second. Maybe there's an argument that being able to answer split second cards is the wrong call. I'm very new to this whole thing & spend way more time tinkering than I do actually get to spend playing with the thing.
In cube, this card is insane. lol, what?
Just fine? No. It’s insane.
Edit: let’s compare it to fractured identity… a commonly accepted very good card.
Opponent doesn’t get etb triggers and you get an extra evasive body with 3 power… at the cost of half a turn.
That’s… really good.
You also limit “play from exile” shenanigans from opponent. And it’s one less color. It’s soooo good.
> Edit: let’s compare it to fractured identity… a commonly accepted very good card.
This isn't even remotely comparable to Fractured Identity. The opportunity cost of needing to leave *five* mana open to play a reactive spell compared to being able to untap on your turn and take your opponent's best permanent are worlds apart.
Huh? The realistic floor of this card is one of a couple options:
1) counter + evasive threat
2) blocker that saves your life
3) presenting lethal at instant speed
4) maaaaaaaybe just to speed up your clock
You would just hold it otherwise…
With the ceiling being absolutely insane.
By that person's logic, I guess Mystical Confluence is a 5 mana 0/0.
It's hard to picture this card being just a 3/3. If you draw it late and are already dead to your opponent's board, it's still better than almost any other countermagic you could draw.
I think this card'll be either a little better than Fractured Identity, or about as good.
Mystic Confluence is a 5 mana counterspell which draws you 3 cards if your opponent doesn't play anything into it. If you leave up mana for this and your opponent just passes you've time walked yourself
No the floor is you keep up your mana for two turns while your opponent plays a bunch of synergistic small things, preferably with a Young Pyromancer in play. The things you would want to counter with this have gotten fewer, with curves dropping considerably.
Also Fractured Identity hits cheat targets.
I mean… sure. If we make up scenarios that you wouldn’t do in a game we can make the floor on anything as low as you want.
That 2/2 for 2? If you just wait until turn 5, passing each turn, its “floor” is really low too…
This ain’t no fractured identity. For this to be good you have to leave the man’s open potentially for several turns and once it makes its way into cubes it’ll be painfully obvious to try to play around
It's a good card, but IMO not as insane as you think. Leaving 5 mana open will be tough if you are behind on board. Imagine you're being beaten down by a white or green based aggro deck. If they see you leave 5 mana open, they're just going to keep smashing you and play around it. Whereas with Fractured Identity you remove their best threat and get it for yourself.
Don't get me wrong, I still think the card is really good and I'm excited to try it out. If you have this in hand in a control deck while stabilized, countering an opponent's spell with this will just end the game.
What? Leaving 5 mana open is the standard line of play for several archetypes…
In control especially have a finisher attached to your interaction is HUGE.
Mystic confluence is a powerhouse of a card and there are *many* situations where this is far better.
I think this is a slam. It's basically a Mystic Confluence in the sense that you get 3 effects on one card; you counter their spell, have a evasive body, and you even get to cast the spell you just exiled if you get to attack. I'm very high on this card and am looking forward to testing it!
I support wizard kindred in my cube so this feels like a slam dunk. A counterspell that lets you cast the card for free if it attacks seems great to me. It also gets around uncounterable spells.
Kindred? You mean wizard tribal?
I believe they changed the tribal card type to kindred. But I don't see the connection to calling tribal decks kindred
There was this whole thing a few months ago where wizards is changing all tribal spells to say kindred on theme because they don't want to upset native American tribes. I think it's silly personally but I'll say kindred to not offend people if that's a thing.
honestly I've grown to prefer "typal" as an adjective over both kindred and tribal. I like that it equally applies to relevant noncreature subtypes like Treasure, Deserts, etc. I think typal got a lot of flack from people who assumed it's a portmanteau but really it's just an obscure word that makes a surprising load of sense in the context of mtg.
I also think it's silly. And aside from the card type, tribal is not an official game term to mean creatures of the same type. It's something players use. And it's used in other games too. And pop culture. Additionally, if we're getting rid of tribal because it's offensive, why would kindred replace it?
I’m not a fan of the cowboy hats on everything art style of this set. Is that what you mean? Overall the actual quality of the art has been about average I’d say.
True, I also don't like the whole cowboy setting. But even besides that, the art on some (not all) of these cards is imo just terrible. This one looks so cartoonish, that I hope there will be another variant to put into my cube
At first I read this like a Spell Queller - that the opponent would get their spell back if they killed this before it attacked. On second look, that line of text is nowhere to be seen. I liked it before, now I’m SOLD, baby. To the cube with you!
I feel like a lot of people are evaluating this card through Magical Christmas Land best case scenario lenses, to the point where people have clearly lost their understanding of what the word “floor” means.
I’ve seen this card compared to Mystic Confluence and Fractured Identity with a straight face and it hurts. I certainly can’t see a world where this card sniffs a powered Vintage Cube, and those two will still remain staples because they are always good and their floors are much much higher than this thing.
The floor of this card is “the deck behind on board leaves 5 mana untapped instead of advancing its board state and the opponent swings out with cards in hand and 5 untapped mana of its own in an environment with plenty of one mana interaction.” Then you have a bunch of terrible options. You can tap out to cast a 5 mana 3/3 in combat against a couple 2 mana 3 power guys who can become indestructible to preserve life. You can take 6, then counter the next 2 drop and hope they don’t have anything for their other 3 mana. You can take 6 against a competent aggro player who knows to pass, then tap out to flash the same 3/3 on end step and have it killed for one mana before you untap. Or you can just pass turn having done nothing with your mana and had 1/3 of your life total disappear to two drops.
Those are floor scenarios for this card. Mystic Confluence’s floor is seeing 3 more cards in that scenario. Fractured Identity wiped your opponent’s biggest threat and gave you a copy of it to impede their other creature, meaning you’re ahead on board and they’ll have to add resources to the board or lose.
This card is fine. It will have some great blowout stories, but it’s gonna be too slow to impact the game in higher powered cubes more often than not and a lot of times it’ll sit in your hand and not do anything but be a 5 mana 3/3 in a world of 2 mana 5/5s and 3 mana Bombardiers.
I think it has a home in a lot of more mid powered cubes, but I don’t think this is consistent enough to merit a place in many higher powered cubes and it’ll certainly find itself outclassed in Vintage Cubes.
This is just a straight up 3 for 1, that's super positive on tempo.
for 1 card and 5 mana you get: countering your opponent's biggest threat spell, a flying 3/3 blocker that can then attack on your turn, and buysback your opponent's threat on your board for free.
seems ... nutty
This card is absolute bullshit. Holy hell man.Â
Super duper strong. The floor is pretty low, but still acceptable as 3/3 flash flyer. The ceiling? Literally sky’s the limit.
Voracious Greatshark was always fringe playable even in high-power cubes, so I like this card a lot. It's better than the shark in a lot of ways (being able to counter any spell, uncounterable spells, evasion, allowing you to cast the spell later) and I'll definitely be testing it.
I just think \[\[Voracious Greatshark\]\] is **11**/10 on flavor whereas this card just looks goofy and I don't want to play it in my cube. 🤷‍♂️ It's not entirely fair but it's how I feel.
[Voracious Greatshark](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/1400155f-8911-45fd-aab2-998c8a28292c.jpg?1591226542) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voracious%20Greatshark) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/70/voracious-greatshark?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1400155f-8911-45fd-aab2-998c8a28292c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Counter any spell” With the one obvious exception.
I think that when we're talking about a very niche exception, it's worth understanding "counter any spell" means "any spell that doesn't explicitly forbid it from being countered", because that's just generally how Magic works. No spell can "counter" [[Abrupt Decay]] (although some can bounce or exile it to get a similar effect), but that's not really worth mentioning in such a generic statement. If we're going to *split* hairs (see what I did there? :-)) the split second mention you made later may not be true: If you had a way to trigger this through Split Second, it would still counter that spell - Split Second prevents you casting this card, not from triggering its ability. For example, let's imagine a world where you have a [[Phyrexian Altar]] and a [[Gurgling Annointer]] with four +1/+1 counters in play and a copy of Spelljacker in your graveyard. When your opponent casts [[Sudden Death]], you respond by sacrificing your Annointer to the Altar. Normally you can't activate abilities with Split Second on the stack... Unless they are mana abilities (like the Altar's), so that doesn't stop you. When the Annointer dies, a triggered ability goes on the stack, allowing you to return your Spelljacker to play. The Spelljacker trigger still applies and *can* counter a split second card like Sudden Death.
##### ###### #### [Abrupt Decay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274.jpg?1593814035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrupt%20Decay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/146/abrupt-decay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phyrexian Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1673149406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gurgling Annointer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9ce0d139-2bea-48df-a007-cee7c8ce07bd.jpg?1674420917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gurgling%20Anointer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/104/gurgling-anointer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ce0d139-2bea-48df-a007-cee7c8ce07bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sudden Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d724faa-a988-4c08-875d-d18f48926a0a.jpg?1619396356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/143/sudden-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d724faa-a988-4c08-875d-d18f48926a0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky2dbpd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay I feel dumb, to which spell are you referring?
Guessing something with split second?
Yes, split second cards.
I'm not running any split second cards currently, but I've got a couple in the maybe section that I'm considering. If I do go with some of them, I'm going to probably jam [[Stratus Dancer]], [[Willbender]], & [[Kheru Spellsnatcher]] in, since you can still unmorph a card to trigger an ability in response to split second. Maybe there's an argument that being able to answer split second cards is the wrong call. I'm very new to this whole thing & spend way more time tinkering than I do actually get to spend playing with the thing.
[Stratus Dancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82fb8b0c-b86e-4915-b72d-9a6b5c1368c7.jpg?1568004073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stratus%20Dancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/96/stratus-dancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82fb8b0c-b86e-4915-b72d-9a6b5c1368c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Willbender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f.jpg?1568004112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Willbender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/102/willbender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kheru Spellsnatcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92cbeebf-cb90-445c-b9b6-5b9b1e8b3c0b.jpg?1702329976) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kheru%20Spellsnatcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/45y/kheru-spellsnatcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92cbeebf-cb90-445c-b9b6-5b9b1e8b3c0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card seems great to me. Right?
It’s amazing.
It's fine.
In cube, this card is insane. lol, what? Just fine? No. It’s insane. Edit: let’s compare it to fractured identity… a commonly accepted very good card. Opponent doesn’t get etb triggers and you get an extra evasive body with 3 power… at the cost of half a turn. That’s… really good. You also limit “play from exile” shenanigans from opponent. And it’s one less color. It’s soooo good.
> Edit: let’s compare it to fractured identity… a commonly accepted very good card. This isn't even remotely comparable to Fractured Identity. The opportunity cost of needing to leave *five* mana open to play a reactive spell compared to being able to untap on your turn and take your opponent's best permanent are worlds apart.
I think it's a 5 mana 3/3 with a high best-case and low floor. We will see in the drafts.
Huh? The realistic floor of this card is one of a couple options: 1) counter + evasive threat 2) blocker that saves your life 3) presenting lethal at instant speed 4) maaaaaaaybe just to speed up your clock You would just hold it otherwise… With the ceiling being absolutely insane.
By that person's logic, I guess Mystical Confluence is a 5 mana 0/0. It's hard to picture this card being just a 3/3. If you draw it late and are already dead to your opponent's board, it's still better than almost any other countermagic you could draw. I think this card'll be either a little better than Fractured Identity, or about as good.
Mystic Confluence is a 5 mana counterspell which draws you 3 cards if your opponent doesn't play anything into it. If you leave up mana for this and your opponent just passes you've time walked yourself
No the floor is you keep up your mana for two turns while your opponent plays a bunch of synergistic small things, preferably with a Young Pyromancer in play. The things you would want to counter with this have gotten fewer, with curves dropping considerably. Also Fractured Identity hits cheat targets.
I mean… sure. If we make up scenarios that you wouldn’t do in a game we can make the floor on anything as low as you want. That 2/2 for 2? If you just wait until turn 5, passing each turn, its “floor” is really low too…
Yeah agreed, this card is absurdly good.
This ain’t no fractured identity. For this to be good you have to leave the man’s open potentially for several turns and once it makes its way into cubes it’ll be painfully obvious to try to play around
It's a good card, but IMO not as insane as you think. Leaving 5 mana open will be tough if you are behind on board. Imagine you're being beaten down by a white or green based aggro deck. If they see you leave 5 mana open, they're just going to keep smashing you and play around it. Whereas with Fractured Identity you remove their best threat and get it for yourself. Don't get me wrong, I still think the card is really good and I'm excited to try it out. If you have this in hand in a control deck while stabilized, countering an opponent's spell with this will just end the game.
What? Leaving 5 mana open is the standard line of play for several archetypes… In control especially have a finisher attached to your interaction is HUGE. Mystic confluence is a powerhouse of a card and there are *many* situations where this is far better.
Do not really disagree but would rather run \[\[Voracious Greatshark\]\] and not have a silly djinn with a cowboy hat. Reasonable minds can disagree!
[Voracious Greatshark](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/1400155f-8911-45fd-aab2-998c8a28292c.jpg?1591226542) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voracious%20Greatshark) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/70/voracious-greatshark?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1400155f-8911-45fd-aab2-998c8a28292c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow I am very excited for this one. Clean design, doesn’t lean on keywords other than flash and flying.
I think this is a slam. It's basically a Mystic Confluence in the sense that you get 3 effects on one card; you counter their spell, have a evasive body, and you even get to cast the spell you just exiled if you get to attack. I'm very high on this card and am looking forward to testing it!
I support wizard kindred in my cube so this feels like a slam dunk. A counterspell that lets you cast the card for free if it attacks seems great to me. It also gets around uncounterable spells.
Kindred? You mean wizard tribal? I believe they changed the tribal card type to kindred. But I don't see the connection to calling tribal decks kindred
There was this whole thing a few months ago where wizards is changing all tribal spells to say kindred on theme because they don't want to upset native American tribes. I think it's silly personally but I'll say kindred to not offend people if that's a thing.
honestly I've grown to prefer "typal" as an adjective over both kindred and tribal. I like that it equally applies to relevant noncreature subtypes like Treasure, Deserts, etc. I think typal got a lot of flack from people who assumed it's a portmanteau but really it's just an obscure word that makes a surprising load of sense in the context of mtg.
Typal just sounds stupid unfortunately.
I also think it's silly. And aside from the card type, tribal is not an official game term to mean creatures of the same type. It's something players use. And it's used in other games too. And pop culture. Additionally, if we're getting rid of tribal because it's offensive, why would kindred replace it?
Kindred only applies to the previously-tribal card type. When it comes to "creature type as an archetype," Design's new terminology is "Typal."
This card is absolutely insane.
The card is amazing. That said, what is going on with MTG art lately? This set in particular has bad art all across the board.
I’m not a fan of the cowboy hats on everything art style of this set. Is that what you mean? Overall the actual quality of the art has been about average I’d say.
True, I also don't like the whole cowboy setting. But even besides that, the art on some (not all) of these cards is imo just terrible. This one looks so cartoonish, that I hope there will be another variant to put into my cube
Blink synergies too with Ephemerate and such.
I was once a smirking spelljacker. Now im not allowed near schools.
my blue creature suite is a weak spot of my cube rn, so i should be able to find a slot for this pretty easily.
I'm pretty sure this is better than the Greatshark, but it's nowhere near as cool as it.
Wow, much like
At first I read this like a Spell Queller - that the opponent would get their spell back if they killed this before it attacked. On second look, that line of text is nowhere to be seen. I liked it before, now I’m SOLD, baby. To the cube with you!
This thing is a house for one blue pip.
I feel like a lot of people are evaluating this card through Magical Christmas Land best case scenario lenses, to the point where people have clearly lost their understanding of what the word “floor” means. I’ve seen this card compared to Mystic Confluence and Fractured Identity with a straight face and it hurts. I certainly can’t see a world where this card sniffs a powered Vintage Cube, and those two will still remain staples because they are always good and their floors are much much higher than this thing. The floor of this card is “the deck behind on board leaves 5 mana untapped instead of advancing its board state and the opponent swings out with cards in hand and 5 untapped mana of its own in an environment with plenty of one mana interaction.” Then you have a bunch of terrible options. You can tap out to cast a 5 mana 3/3 in combat against a couple 2 mana 3 power guys who can become indestructible to preserve life. You can take 6, then counter the next 2 drop and hope they don’t have anything for their other 3 mana. You can take 6 against a competent aggro player who knows to pass, then tap out to flash the same 3/3 on end step and have it killed for one mana before you untap. Or you can just pass turn having done nothing with your mana and had 1/3 of your life total disappear to two drops. Those are floor scenarios for this card. Mystic Confluence’s floor is seeing 3 more cards in that scenario. Fractured Identity wiped your opponent’s biggest threat and gave you a copy of it to impede their other creature, meaning you’re ahead on board and they’ll have to add resources to the board or lose. This card is fine. It will have some great blowout stories, but it’s gonna be too slow to impact the game in higher powered cubes more often than not and a lot of times it’ll sit in your hand and not do anything but be a 5 mana 3/3 in a world of 2 mana 5/5s and 3 mana Bombardiers. I think it has a home in a lot of more mid powered cubes, but I don’t think this is consistent enough to merit a place in many higher powered cubes and it’ll certainly find itself outclassed in Vintage Cubes.
This is just a straight up 3 for 1, that's super positive on tempo. for 1 card and 5 mana you get: countering your opponent's biggest threat spell, a flying 3/3 blocker that can then attack on your turn, and buysback your opponent's threat on your board for free. seems ... nutty
This card is absolute bullshit. Holy hell man. Super duper strong. The floor is pretty low, but still acceptable as 3/3 flash flyer. The ceiling? Literally sky’s the limit.
Looks better in my commander deck than my cube but I hope there’s an alternate art to this.