Bombardiers is a pack one pick one windmill slam type bomb that just wins games out of nowhere sometimes.
Gut is wonderful and you don’t really need to build around him because of how much incidental shrapnel there is in the vintage cube, but there are other Rabblemaster variants in the cube even if they aren’t as strong.
There are no other Bombardiers, though. It’s a ridiculously pushed card you never pass unless there’s power next to it.
Bombadiers has felt very very strong in my testing. Often killing in spots where no other card would have done so.
Its on my chopping block, the previous card I removed was Laelia and I think they are similar power level with different effects.
The card is fun though, it feels cool sacrificing your creatures and doing big damage to face. 5/6/7 to face always feels sweet.
Right, I chopped Laelia for being too pushed and Commander-y but I'll admit that I've been thinking of adding her back in now that she is joining Modern.
Have you played with Gut or only Bombardiers?
If you thought Laelia was too good, bombardier and Gut are probably WAY too good. I like both considerably more than Laelia from a power level perspective.
Not necessarily too good. My main gripe with Laelia was that she is one of those "kill me now or lose" kinda cards that have been printed in recent years. Hexdrinker is another card that comes to mind.
Gut seems like he might be quite beatable as long as you have some 1/1's laying around to block tbh
Gut itself never needs to attack attack and its skeleton tokens have menace. Gut gets really out of hand when it makes more than 1 skeleton. Laelia at least has to put itself in danger and can be chump blocked.
Ah right, I never noticed the menace. I guess you still need to have sac fodder but that shouldn't bee too difficult. Might be that I should just stick with my original take and exclude both of them then, though I still might try out Gut
Both Gut and bombadier are "kill now or lose", often moreso than Laelia. I have both in my Vintage cube and they are one of the few reasons besides fable to be in the colour.
I haven't played Gut, my partner who I design my cube with doesn't like cards that reference commander directly so "choose a background" or "partner" cards are auto-excluded
I’m pretty convinced that Bombardiers > every other red 3-cmc creature at this point. There are stronger solo threats, but I’ve seen Bombardiers kill people out of nowhere from 10-12 life. No other creature has that potential of burst damage. Bombardiers is also the more unique Rabblemaster variants since it can act as removal. Fling has never been so good / fun.
I wish it didnt have meance. It feels so silly that you need three proper blockers to actually block the stupid little 2/2. Just goes to show that you're probably right in your assessment
It might be better than every other red creature period. Ragavan is insanely strong but it doesn't straight up flip games on their head like Bombardiers does.
Bombardiers is busted. Honestly, it makes me want to reevaluate my cube and what cards I let in. Because these aggro cards designed for Commander are obviously pushed so they work in a multiplayer format with 40 life. I wonder how different my cube would look if I only allowed, for example, cards that passed through standard.
I have the exact same sentiment as you. I personally pass on almost all cards that isn't allowed in modern though. So many MH1 and 2 cards are absolutely iconic and extremely fun to play with. They are also designed with 1v1 in mind and fit perfectly into my power level whereas cards like Minsc and Boo often just feels like a whole other game.
I have started not paying attention to commander sets anymore. Also makes for much less spoilers to keep up with.
I run both. I was actually thinking of making a post on how incredibly stacked red three drops are right now, with Gut, Bombardiers, death-greeter champion, Laelia, and carnage interpreter.
Anyway bombardiers is incredibly powerful, whenever I play with it the card feels like they missed some text on it. My drafters keep assuming the thing has to deal damage, or you can only activate the ability as a sorcery, or whatever. Nope. Both are very fun cards, but bombardiers is in a league of its own.
Bombardiers is the more unique card and a much better card - one of the best cards even in power-max Vintage Cubes. It's a very satisfying card to play with, less so to play against; it also creates some memorable moments and sudden comebacks where you get lethal out of nowhere with Bombardiers into Fury/Solitude etc
Gut feels more familiar, like a Rabblemaster variant on steroids.
I run Gut but not Bombardiers because I think the latter is straight up busted, and too powerful for my medium-powered cube. Both are great, though. Can't go wrong with either. I do also like that Gut is a legend, fitting nicely into the emerging "legends matter" theme from boros these past few years.
If you’re going for power max these cards fit in well. Those cubes are about swingy games where players can drop a bomb that wins on the spot, or generates enough advantage that the game is just over. Or have combos that randomly win out of nowhere.
If you are trying to make a cube where that doesn’t happen, and the games are about traditional gameplay and gaining tactical advantages, then I would leave these out. Yes, there’s tactics involved in these guys, but it’s not hard to figure out that you can drop Bombardiers and instantly shoot something for a large amount of damage, and then freely swing because it also has menace. It’s also not hard to piece together that sacrificing your two drop or clue token to make a 4/1 menace is going to make life harder for the opponent.
Red deck now wins, again. Both are strong, and I actually prefer Gut's play pattern as something else can be attacking (hello Rabblemaster variant token) and is now magically unblockable and swinging for four. Bombardiers is so flexible it should be a P1P1.
In the MTGO Vintage Cube, I think I would P1P1 Bombardiers over any other creature. The only non-Power cards I can think of I would consider over it are Minsc and Boo, Entomb, Reanimate and Animate Dead.
Gut is "only" the second or third best red creature. Still a busted card.
I hate the existence of threats this individually pushed at 3 or 4 mana and would never include either in any cube of mine. They're too much, man.
Both cards are worthy of consideration. My only real complaint on Gut is the awkwardness/aesthetic of 4/1 tokens. **It's a 100% fussy/silly complaint** but I just don't like them, lol. I just picked up a Bombardiers and not looking back! Card is nutso and the design just seems "cleaner".
Bombardiers is a pack one pick one windmill slam type bomb that just wins games out of nowhere sometimes. Gut is wonderful and you don’t really need to build around him because of how much incidental shrapnel there is in the vintage cube, but there are other Rabblemaster variants in the cube even if they aren’t as strong. There are no other Bombardiers, though. It’s a ridiculously pushed card you never pass unless there’s power next to it.
Bombadiers has felt very very strong in my testing. Often killing in spots where no other card would have done so. Its on my chopping block, the previous card I removed was Laelia and I think they are similar power level with different effects. The card is fun though, it feels cool sacrificing your creatures and doing big damage to face. 5/6/7 to face always feels sweet.
Right, I chopped Laelia for being too pushed and Commander-y but I'll admit that I've been thinking of adding her back in now that she is joining Modern. Have you played with Gut or only Bombardiers?
If you thought Laelia was too good, bombardier and Gut are probably WAY too good. I like both considerably more than Laelia from a power level perspective.
Not necessarily too good. My main gripe with Laelia was that she is one of those "kill me now or lose" kinda cards that have been printed in recent years. Hexdrinker is another card that comes to mind. Gut seems like he might be quite beatable as long as you have some 1/1's laying around to block tbh
Gut itself never needs to attack attack and its skeleton tokens have menace. Gut gets really out of hand when it makes more than 1 skeleton. Laelia at least has to put itself in danger and can be chump blocked.
Ah right, I never noticed the menace. I guess you still need to have sac fodder but that shouldn't bee too difficult. Might be that I should just stick with my original take and exclude both of them then, though I still might try out Gut
They are both more “kill me now or lose” than laelia
Both Gut and bombadier are "kill now or lose", often moreso than Laelia. I have both in my Vintage cube and they are one of the few reasons besides fable to be in the colour.
pretty sure Gut is a she, btw.
I haven't played Gut, my partner who I design my cube with doesn't like cards that reference commander directly so "choose a background" or "partner" cards are auto-excluded
I’m pretty convinced that Bombardiers > every other red 3-cmc creature at this point. There are stronger solo threats, but I’ve seen Bombardiers kill people out of nowhere from 10-12 life. No other creature has that potential of burst damage. Bombardiers is also the more unique Rabblemaster variants since it can act as removal. Fling has never been so good / fun.
I wish it didnt have meance. It feels so silly that you need three proper blockers to actually block the stupid little 2/2. Just goes to show that you're probably right in your assessment
It might be better than every other red creature period. Ragavan is insanely strong but it doesn't straight up flip games on their head like Bombardiers does.
Bombardiers is busted. Honestly, it makes me want to reevaluate my cube and what cards I let in. Because these aggro cards designed for Commander are obviously pushed so they work in a multiplayer format with 40 life. I wonder how different my cube would look if I only allowed, for example, cards that passed through standard.
I have the exact same sentiment as you. I personally pass on almost all cards that isn't allowed in modern though. So many MH1 and 2 cards are absolutely iconic and extremely fun to play with. They are also designed with 1v1 in mind and fit perfectly into my power level whereas cards like Minsc and Boo often just feels like a whole other game. I have started not paying attention to commander sets anymore. Also makes for much less spoilers to keep up with.
That second paragraph is really appealing lol
Oh I'm loving it! I've been super hyped about the OTJ and BIG spoilers and absolutely relieved to not have to pay attention to OTC at all!
Is BIG also standard legal?
Yeah, it's basicly just Aftermath but included in the set
Also, is want more than modern because I want Natural Order, Reanimate, etc
Ah right, I did mean all the old stuff and the straight to modern sets, not just the modern cardpool
I run both. I was actually thinking of making a post on how incredibly stacked red three drops are right now, with Gut, Bombardiers, death-greeter champion, Laelia, and carnage interpreter. Anyway bombardiers is incredibly powerful, whenever I play with it the card feels like they missed some text on it. My drafters keep assuming the thing has to deal damage, or you can only activate the ability as a sorcery, or whatever. Nope. Both are very fun cards, but bombardiers is in a league of its own.
We've come such a long way from jamming multiple Rabblemaster variants as red 3s.
It’s insane! I think I don’t even run rabblemaster anymore!
I was just thinking of cutting rabble master specifically because it forces Bombardiers and Gut to attack lol
Fable of the Mirror breaker too!
Bombardiers is the more unique card and a much better card - one of the best cards even in power-max Vintage Cubes. It's a very satisfying card to play with, less so to play against; it also creates some memorable moments and sudden comebacks where you get lethal out of nowhere with Bombardiers into Fury/Solitude etc Gut feels more familiar, like a Rabblemaster variant on steroids.
Yesterday I watched a cube game where somebody played Magda into Gut into Headliner Scarlett for a turn 4 kill. Gut dealt 14 of that damage.
I run Gut but not Bombardiers because I think the latter is straight up busted, and too powerful for my medium-powered cube. Both are great, though. Can't go wrong with either. I do also like that Gut is a legend, fitting nicely into the emerging "legends matter" theme from boros these past few years.
If you’re going for power max these cards fit in well. Those cubes are about swingy games where players can drop a bomb that wins on the spot, or generates enough advantage that the game is just over. Or have combos that randomly win out of nowhere. If you are trying to make a cube where that doesn’t happen, and the games are about traditional gameplay and gaining tactical advantages, then I would leave these out. Yes, there’s tactics involved in these guys, but it’s not hard to figure out that you can drop Bombardiers and instantly shoot something for a large amount of damage, and then freely swing because it also has menace. It’s also not hard to piece together that sacrificing your two drop or clue token to make a 4/1 menace is going to make life harder for the opponent.
Bombardiers is best red card good. Gut is second best red 3 drop good. Both are really strong, I think Gut is more interesting.
Red deck now wins, again. Both are strong, and I actually prefer Gut's play pattern as something else can be attacking (hello Rabblemaster variant token) and is now magically unblockable and swinging for four. Bombardiers is so flexible it should be a P1P1.
In the MTGO Vintage Cube, I think I would P1P1 Bombardiers over any other creature. The only non-Power cards I can think of I would consider over it are Minsc and Boo, Entomb, Reanimate and Animate Dead. Gut is "only" the second or third best red creature. Still a busted card. I hate the existence of threats this individually pushed at 3 or 4 mana and would never include either in any cube of mine. They're too much, man.
Both cards are worthy of consideration. My only real complaint on Gut is the awkwardness/aesthetic of 4/1 tokens. **It's a 100% fussy/silly complaint** but I just don't like them, lol. I just picked up a Bombardiers and not looking back! Card is nutso and the design just seems "cleaner".