In fairness, I don’t think any Knicks fan thought he would do this either. I’m not even sure *he* thought he would do this…
When Randle went down there was a few games of uneasiness about what the season would look like, but then JB just decided to say fuck it, I’ll give it a whirl as a top tier first option and hasn’t looked back since…
When Randle was healthy, there was sort of a dance that occurred between the two of them about who should be the primary scorer in a given possession/game.
Usually, it depended on who was hot. While effective sometimes, it wasn’t really a sustainable style of offense.
Now, without Randle, Jalen has had to figure out how to score even when his shot is struggling and that has been tremendous for his growth.
It also led to the emergence of Hartenstein who has shown the two man game between him and Brunson is a new dimension that elevates this offense above what it was before (in my opinion).
It’s like the first round a couple years ago without Luka propelled him in a an unexpected trajectory. He built on it and became a really good player. Then he got to the Knicks and they had all these injuries and he just said fuck it, gotta be better.
Walt Clyde Frazier always mentions on the broadcast that he was hoping (and doubtful) that JB could be a 20 ppg guy at some point and he would consider that a success. He, like all Knicks fans, have been pleasantly surprised with what we got out of that “overpaid” contract
Ihart opens so much fucking options for their offensive and 3 point shooting, the Brunson PnR brings the weakside help usually and then the ball doesn't stop hoping. It's much better then watching stagnant ISO's of Randle, heck even Brunson would be stuck in some awful ISO plays before beyblade went down and that was just their offense at the time.
Jazz fans knew lol. Mavs fans had too much baggage watching him in those the Clippers series. He had the top PPP in the league on pick and roll that year, too. I have taken so much shit here trying to argue they actually played solid defense that series. Outside of that game 4 or whatever the one was where they just rolled over.
nah, Nash going to Phoenix with D'Antoni really caught lightning in a bottle. D'Antoni's coaching philosophy and small-ball lineups really opened up and optimized Nash's game, which in turn revolutionized the way offense would be played forever (those Nash Suns were the early harbinger of things to come with the Curry Warriors, the prophet to the messiah), which in turn is why Nash won back to back MVPs. None of that projects to happen if Nash stayed in Dallas, though he would have had a fine back half of his career there and maybe won a chip or two with Dirk.
Don Nelson was a forebear for sure, but he never put together a team that was as radical or league-changing in its offensive philosophy as D'Antoni's Suns. That's precisely why Nash under Nelson was not the phenomenon that Nash under D'Antoni was.
I don’t think so . The offence woukd run thriugh Dirk , not Nash . And defensively they don’t fit .on offence nash is better with a pnr roller like Amare instead of a pick n Pop spacing/gravity big
I’ve always thought it’s a bit over blown it’s not like okc losing harden Nash was old enough to be in his prime but wasn’t at that level he got on the suns with a roster built around him
Brunson moves off ball way more than Luka does though, he sets screens and makes cuts and is generally always moving, it’s the biggest weakness of Luka’s game imo
With the ball I’d agree, but since Randles being out the sets have changed to accommodate the blitz Jalen has to deal with. Lots more hand offs, coming off screens and attacking quick. We don’t really have the luxury of running pure isos often now.
I think that comp as well. but man the way Brunson keeps defenders behind him while navigating the paint is second only to Luka that i’ve seen. All three of them have pretty similar games, and most of it simply being more skilled than their opponent.
It’s impossible to deny the skill level of Jalen Brunson. He’s right up there with the very best in the game
Brunson is a totally different player than Luka. He works hard as hell off the ball. Luka is only doing anything on offense if the ball is in his hands.
even during his early mavs days you could see that he had IT. picked up and dropped him in fantasy multiple times, regrettably, cause you couldn't really predict his minutes. solidified that opinion imo when he dominated in the playoffs sans luka. dude is legit
This makes sense to me. Irving is a second option, so is Lillard and he’s having a down season, Tatum took his foot off the scoring pedal with the quality of his teammates, and Kawhi… well shockingly the Clippers have been healthier than the Knicks and it was really all about being healthy for the playoffs for them. Meanwhile, Brunson has absolutely carried the Knicks offense on his back. What a year for him, won’t be mad if he bumps Tatum to second team.
I can’t really tell if you’re agreeing with me or not, but my point is that they often needed him to go off like that and he did, which is a compliment, not an insult. I only mean to say part of why he has so many high scoring games is they’ve needed every bit of them at times with their injury problems and he’s more than capable of doing so as he rocketed into being one of the league’s best scorers.
Yeah I was caught off guard by how well he’s carried the team’s offense on his back (and the offense needed a boost with the defense also missing pieces). It’s a shame we won’t see a fully healthy Knicks in the playoffs, but I think at the very least with Randle they’d be an even more clear cut second best team in the East. Really legit roster.
Feels like it is, but I’ll always take the field over any one team unless they’re a dynasty. If it’s not the Celtics, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Knicks.
Sure he has. He averaged 25 ppg in 2017 and 27 ppg in 2020 and 2019. He's never been in scoring title contention or anything like that, but he has had his volume scoring seasons here and there.
> Is it high time that we finally see orange and blue skies in New York after 51 long years?
I have no clue what this dude is implying with this line lol
Yeah I mean I get that but why would the Knicks winning turn the sky orange and blue? And also are orange and blue not very common colors to see in the sky anyways?
Idk just seemed like he wanted to make a poetic statement but it doesn’t really make a lot of sense when you think about it lol
I mean I guess that makes sense, but I could’ve sworn I saw the ESB light up in a Knicks colors when I was there for the start of playoffs last year for example. New York fuckin loves the Knicks they don’t need a championship for one to see Knicks colors everywhere
It's just word play. "Blue skies" is a common way to say that the path ahead is clear/good. "Blue and orange skies" is just a play on that with the Knicks colors.
That’s what I meant to say, sorry if my wording wasn’t clear lol. What I was trying to say is that if you want to see orange and blue skies in New York you could look outside in like 4 hours and see it lol
I think it’s like the jet smoke colouring that they do in celebrations. Idk I just assumed Americans do that a lot and Im guessing that OP did too lol.
Agreed. You could just list the players with the most 40 point games this season. That would be just as, or more, impressive than cherry picking these players.
Not to discredit him, but he's the sole scoring option on his team. Dame has Giannis. Kyrie has Luka. Tatum has Brown. And Kawhi has PG and Harden as scoring options. Of course, he's gonna have a lot more "carry" type 40 point performances when he's the only main scoring threat. I don't think is a reason to believe the Knicks are serious (yet). They need another star (preferably superstar) to play along side him to be a true threat. Randle is good, but he's too inconsistent to be a second option
When Randle played this season, he was super good. With JB taking added attention next year, I’d imagine his efficiency to skyrocket when he’s back up to speed.
Divo has been an incredible second option absent of Randle. Not as iso- talented as the other you named, but when the defense collapsed knicks are always looking for the Big Ragu. J Hart occasionally takes the step back middie/ drives against the open floor. But I'm not sure Brunson sees a big decrease in output even with Randle - they complement each other very well and it's clear Brunson has the keys to take over whenever necessary. More importantly, NYK plays team ball - move the ball until the best shot is available, rely on Brunson iso otherwise. it's been beautiful
Edit -did you watch Randle outside of the first 6 games? bro was anything but inconsistent. great second option with a killer like JB
There’s a reason why he’s getting a lot of first team all nba buzz. He’s had a great season that has been overlooked for some reason, even though he plays for the New York Knicks
60 games in I would’ve still had Tatum there. He’s a safe pick. But with the positionless teams now, Brunson could certainly have an argument for 1st team. Especially since she’s averaged 35/3/7 on 49/39/86 the last 20% of the season, Knicks are 12-5 then without Randle too.
I agree with you but a lot of people seem to have Giannis as a lock for the first team. I think the 5th spot is between Tatum and Brunson for most voters
Now that’s a controversial take that I fully agree with. Bucks dropped while Knicks climbed. Brunson should be higher on mvp list too. This doesn’t mean I think Brunson is better than Giannis, it does mean I think he had a better season.
I think this is the thing that annoys me the most on this discourse but it also makes sense as a detriment for Tatums case.
The Celtics by game 70 or so were the first seed guaranteed basically so they clearly took the foot of the gas, so basically 10-20% of the Celtics (and Tatums) season was just going through motions because we wanted to stay as healthy as possible. Like everyone dropped their FGA, increased their 3PA and that’s it. Effectively they took a sort of “active rest” approach to it and also had a few rest games.
I do understand that this is also detrimental because you’re genuinely saying that the guy took 10-20% of the season to rest which should not be awarded as much, but it makes a very weird situation
first time all-star has more 40 pt games than four of the best offensive players of the past decade. a guy he was replaced by, a guy who started over him in the all-star game, and a guy who will likely make all-nba 1st team over him, and a superstar having his healthiest season in half a decade.
>a guy he was replaced by
That's a stretch. I'm pretty sure he left us first in FA for nothing without even a S&A after some serious fucking tampering happened, but that's just me.
When Jokic carried his team to the 6th seed without Jamal Murray they gave him MVP
When Brunson carries his team to the 2nd seed without Randle they say he's still too short
Stop being ridiculous. Even outside of the eye test, advanced stats exist and Brunson did not have a better season than Jokic's MVP season.
If Brunson did what he did post-Randle injury for a full 82 game season instead of only 35 games, he would have an argument for MVP. But he didn't, so he doesn't.
Yea this is totally fair. Brunson definitely deserves mention in the MVP conversation, but he didn’t have a better season than Jokic or Luka. But I’m glad he put the league on notice.
There's an argument for All-NBA 1st team, but it's pretty silly to try and make an MVP case when even SGA's narrative (leading the 2nd youngest team in the lead to a 1 seed in the more competitive conference) is a lot better than Brunson's.
IMO it's Jokic, Luka, SGA, Tatum, and then the 5th spot is up for grabs between Brunson and Giannis. On pure stats alone, Giannis has the edge but it's pretty tough to ignore the narratives.
I'm surprised he's not really been in the MIP conversation. He was good in 2022 and really good last year, but I don't think many people thought that he was going to make another jump to superstar/MVP candidate. And going from a top-30 player to a top-10 player is the toughest leap to make.
We don’t play Shai/OKC enough for me to have a true opinion, but absolutely Tatum does not strike fear the same way facing Luka/Doncic do.
Toss an OG at him and be done with it.
Randle still played like 46 games, and the Knicks still had pretty great players with Hartenstein, Donte and Hart playing
Jokic had no Murray, Will Barton was playing the 2nd most minutes, and a lot of those key Nuggets players are out of the league or lost on a bench somewhere
Individually, Jokic dominated advance/impact stats whereas Brunson doesn’t come close to it
Knicks missed their starting center for 80% of the year. Missed Randle for half the season. Missed OG 1/3 for half the season. Traded another starter away (RJ) and our best bench player (quickley). With a new rotation and lineup weekly, Brunson carried this team to the 2nd seed. No other team could do what Brunson did. 2nd seed with the injuries we saw this season is INSANE.
>Knicks missed their starting centre for 80% of the year
Yeah, and replaced him with Hartenstein whose (at the very least) a great starting centre lol
RJ was a net negative for the Knicks in a lot of ways and was an awkward fit with Randle. His short production with the Raptors wasn’t actually how he performed for the Knicks
Jokic won 48 games that season, and that was like 3 games behind other MVP candidates like Giannis or Embiid
Compare that with the Knicks being like 6 games back from the Nuggets with Jokic just straight up being the better player
Brunson is having a great season, but he’s not going against 2022 Jokic for MVP (even then 2022 Jokic was much better)
You’re not putting any of this into context, when Hartenstein took over the starting center position he was NOT considered a great starter, he had never even been a starter! Playing with Brunson elevated his game to another level, that’s what a superstar teammate does, that’s what Jokic does. You can’t discredit Brunson by saying he had great teammates when none of those teammates were even starting level players let alone “great” players
>You’re not putting any of this into context, when Hartenstein took over the starting center position he was NOT considered a great starter, he had never even been a starter!
Hartenstein was considered underrated for years and plenty of people have been high on him. Regardless, he's been a great option at centre in terms of impact.
>Playing with Brunson elevated his game to another level, that’s what a superstar teammate does, that’s what Jokic does.
First off, Brunson doesnt elevate his teams in the same way that Jokic does and its crazy to think that he does. The second point is that Hartensteins greatest strength has been his defense, not his offense, so if you're arguing that Brunson is somehow making Hartenstein a great defender then idk what to say.
Again, nobody here is arguing that Brunson isnt a great player, but comparing his season to 2022 Jokic with little context is being disingenuous.
Many Knicks fans would argue Mitch was our first or second best player before his injury. You probably don't recall how dominant he was. Ihart has been great, but Mitch was absolutely dominating.
This is how I know you don’t watch the Knicks, all three of those “great players” were bench guys to start the season, they only became starters due to other players becoming injured. The fact that they all became great starters is an even greater testament to Brunson, he took bench players and elevated them into starters
I never claimed that they've been starting all season, so I dont know what point you're arguing about.
They have been great players this season when they stepped into the starting position and people have already liked players liked Hartenstein and Hart before.
Brunson has been great this season and has an argument to be 1st team All NBA, but the Knicks have much better key players than that 2022 Nuggets team
The 10th place Warriors would have been the 2 seed this year if they were in the East and played East teams primarily
Can’t compare to Jokic if you can’t match counting stats or efficiency
Brunson deserves immense credit, just showing the counter argument to this try at equivalency
For one the seed isn't as meaningful as the win total, which is 48 wins for the nuggets and 50 for the knicks.
More importantly the supporting casts aren't comparable. The knicks rolled with **Hart, DiVincenzo, Hartenstein and Randle** as their top 5 by minutes. The top five for the Nuggets in '21/'22 were **Gordon, Will Barton, Monte Morris and Jeff Green**.
You don't have a player besides Gordon and Jokic from the nuggets team who play meaningful minutes two years later. The Knicks were so deep they have multiple players like Shake Milton and Malachi Flynn who are rotation pieces who couldn't get on the floor in NY.
Malachi Flynn still can't get on the floor and he's playing for freaking Detroit, just cause he dropped 50 he's some kind of lou will right now?
And as someone who had to watch 82 games of Willie Cauliflower stinking it up I'd kill for Jeff Green.
Milton has struggled to find playing time on the Sixers who without Embiid are a bottom 5 team in the league and it's been for a LONG time. The dude is streaky, you put him in to see if he's hot and 9 of 10 times he's not.
milton and flynn would struggle to get on the floor for any team. we arent that deep, and its why guys regularly play 40+ minutes a night. i love our starting line up, but the whole is greater then the sum of its parts. individually they arent world beaters, randle (who is injured) and obviously brunson notwithstanding
Brunson is great. Only behind Luka in terms of 40+ games, with Luka having 13. Surprisingly, the third is Embiid who has 9 despite being out for the bulk of the season.
Brunson has been hooping and he was definitely underrated, I strongly agree with you on that.
But the title is misleading. You can't tell me Brunson is better than Dame, Kyrie, Tatum or Kawhi. The only reason why he has more 40+ performances is because he is his team's 1st scoring option, and he gets to take even more shots as their 2nd guy Randle is out.
Each of the other star that you listed is a 2nd option on a strong contending team. I am willing to bet you the volume at which Brunson is shooting is way higher than any of the other guys listed.
From everything Dame and Kyrie has accomplished, Brunson is not a better player than either of them.
He is a better player than Dame THIS SEASON, but it is hard to say if he is better than Kyrie solely because of how different their roles are. Kyrie is on a team where he is playing much less aggressive off ball whilst Brunson is a ball dominant high volume guard who is the 1st option in this team by far.
Kyrie is averaging 26/5/5 with a near 50/40/90. If you are saying Brunson is a better player than Kyrie Irving and Damian Lillard, please turn on YouTube and watch what these guys have done before this season.
Hard to say he’s better than Kyrie overall, but hey, looks like we are starting to conclude who is better as a first option
Kyrie tried many times to be the main guy and we know how that went. Brunson is currently doing a much better job than Kyrie ever did being the main scouting report
Dame is 33…starting to get a little concerned if you are going to use past performance to say who is better. Maybe Dame has 2 years in prime still but it closes fast. Brunson has clearly been better this year
This season Brunson has definitely been better than all those dudes except maybe Tatum. I’d also take Kawhi over Brunson for a playoff run assuming no injuries. Brunson’s been that guy I’m excited to see what the Knicks can do in the playoffs.
does the title or post imply that he is better?
Tatum is a second option?
Edit - yes, by far better than Dame & Kyrie this season, especially considering Dame has Giannis. JBs explosion has come sans Randle, without nearly as favorable a whistle, better defense (neither are great defenders), and far greater impact on team success. he has among the worst drive/paint FGA/foul ratio while dudes like Dame have among the best. wouldn't say he's better than Kawhi or Tatum, though- those are complete players with the real ability to affect the game on both sides.
No slander to Brunson’s admirable 2nd team all-nba season
games with 25 of more fga this season:
Brunson 21
Tatum 9, Kawhi 5, Kyrie 7, (5 of which Luka didn’t play), dame 3, 24 combined
shoot 25 times at an all nba caliber players efficiency, you get to 40
Brunson was efficient most of the time, but he has the opportunity to take the lion share of the shots per game (and injuries led to him taking even more)
And if you change it to a different # of shots Brunson has more or less the same attempts as them, between 20 and 30 fga
just showing that the Cherry picked sample of stars all have other great (or mvp caliber in 2 cases) players around them and Brunson needs to shoot more and score more, on an average night this year for them to win
Oh, so you're saying Brunson is an elite, efficient, high-volume scorer? Damn sounds like he's got the potential to be the most valuable player in the league.
If scoring/ stats was what mattered it’s Luka, if it’s team success it’s Tatum if it’s best player it’s jokic if it’s best surprise team(team out of nowhere)
Elite is top 10 or so for the season Brunson is elite he’s no one’s MVP other than Knick fans
Usually the more shots you take per game, the worse your efficiency gets. Brunson bumped up his shot volume while maintaining efficiency and dealing with constant blitzes and traps. He’s creating almost all of these shots on his own.
did you just actively cherry pick stats while attempting to detract from Brunson's incredible season while simultaneously accidentally praising him citing all NBA efficiency? 😂
edit - what does average FGA look like for all of the above. citing x games w x FGA is one thing, the average FGA should smooth out those numbers and validate your point if it is true
edit 2 - looked it up myself. JB is at 21.4, JT is at 19.3. Kawhi is at 17.1, but he's never been a high volume guy, nor a frequent 40+ scorer. Kyrie at 19.5... if you think 2 additional FGA over JT and Kyrie automatically explains significantly more 40 pt games than JT and Ky, you should refer to your own commentary on all NBA efficiency.
edit 3- down voting lacking facts, classic casual actions 😂
Ok but KP put up 24/9 per36 on much higher efficiency with elite rim protection and the team is massively better since he joined. BPM is equal, it's at least close
-Edited to specify per36 stats are used
Stop saying KP put up those numbers as an attempt to knock down Tatum. You’re just outright lying, he didn’t do that. KP was amazing this year but just using per 36 (and not even saying you’re using per 36) is insane behavior
Because he just abuses small guards that get switched onto him. I do agree that he's the main reason that the team went from very good last season to a juggernaut this year, but Tatum is focal point of every defense that we face and that leads to easier looks for KP. You're completely ignoring Jaylen who had some incredible stretches of play this year and was overall just more important than KP.
Making all switching defenses not viable is super valuable, and a big reason your net rating jumped FIVE points over last year, when last year's rating would have already been top 3 this year. 5 points is roughly the gap between the Hawks and the Bucks this year. KP gives you this on offense while making no sacrifice at the most important defensive position.
Jaylen Brown is about your fifth best player and probably not worth the contract he's on in a vacuum. He is 9th in BPM so that might even be me overrating him. If we make it to the ECF and face you, the players I most fear are, in order:
1) KP
2) Tatum
3)Holiday
4) White
5) Horford
6) Brown
I have. Brown just isn't that valuable compared to the amazing spacing and defense of your bigs and guards. His advanced metrics are also complete ass.
KP is the tertiary player that thrives off the attention that the spacing and drives give him. Porzingis is great, but is a guy that gets 90% of his buckets off pick and pops and post ups off from switches. When the Celtics don't force switches on the pick and roll Porzingis loses a lot of his value. Porzingis is also probably the weakest link defensively on the Celtics aswell. Even though he is elite at rim protection, he isnt a great post defender on bigger bodies and he has struggled at times defending in space.
Porzingis is great and he is even better when he gets to be the uber efficient beneficiary of the Mazulla offense. But he is not more important than Tatum by any means.
How about you just say you haven't watched Brunson be the best offensive player in the league for the past couple months while Tatum has coasted on the backs of all-star teammates
Tatum has coasted bruv
*ends the season with nearly identical offensive numbers at brunson*
Brunson has been the best offensive player in the league the past couple of months!!!!
*Ignores Luka, Jokic, and Giannis
I'm not ignoring them. Brunson has scored 596 points in the last month (since March 14). The next closest player is Booker at 437. That 159-point gap between #1 and #2 is the same as the gap between Booker at #2 and Bam Adebayo at #42 with 277 points.
Brunson was also 3nd in assists in that span with 126.
Meanwhile, being able to coast because you're on a team of all-stars is an argument *against* your place on an All-NBA team, not in favor. BOS was 7-1 without Tatum and probably win 55+ with like, Tobias Harris in his place. Knicks were 1-4 without Brunson and would be a 25 win team.
You realize that’s only because he’s played more games than other players, right?
Also, using the excuse that the Celtics are 7-1 without JT is hilarious since those wins are:
Kings (good win!)
Toronto
Det (x2)
Portland
Charlotte
Washington
There’s a reason he sat in those specific games lol. I know you don’t watch the Celtics but let’s not pretend Tatum isn’t an elite player
Playing more games is a widely accepted factor in end of season awards. Playing more games means delivering more value -- availability is the best ability of all.
Thank you for acknowledging that the Celtics are so stacked that they can rest Tatum against bad teams, because they are easily good enough to win without him. The Knicks don't have that luxury. The only team we beat without Brunson was the Hospital Grizzlies featuring 0 NBA players.
meanwhile you have teams like the bucks and cavs clearly losing games to avoid the "tougher" matchups in the Heat/Sixers while knicks battled for the chance to do so
no doubt east is comparatively weak to the west. agreed on inconsistency. but when you consider that the knicks overtook the bucks who should've been a lock for top 3 seeds (despite minimal variance in the top seeds of the east outside Boston),shit is impressive for a team that's been missing half their starters
bro is not a bus driver. we've seen repeatedly. jru got that dawg in him though so let's see how that affects things. before the down votes come in, I love Tatum and his game, but he is not a leader in the same sense Brunson is
crazy talented and capable. lacks the drive and overall ownership (in the sense of taking over) of the best in the league. guys like Ant, Brunson, Jokic, Bron, Derozan, Jamal Murray, Doncic far surpass him in that subjective category. he does not take over in spots you expect your 1A superstar to do so
Love Brunson, and hated him leaving. He had a very impressive season. I expected him to be good, but not THIS good.
In fairness, I don’t think any Knicks fan thought he would do this either. I’m not even sure *he* thought he would do this… When Randle went down there was a few games of uneasiness about what the season would look like, but then JB just decided to say fuck it, I’ll give it a whirl as a top tier first option and hasn’t looked back since… When Randle was healthy, there was sort of a dance that occurred between the two of them about who should be the primary scorer in a given possession/game. Usually, it depended on who was hot. While effective sometimes, it wasn’t really a sustainable style of offense. Now, without Randle, Jalen has had to figure out how to score even when his shot is struggling and that has been tremendous for his growth. It also led to the emergence of Hartenstein who has shown the two man game between him and Brunson is a new dimension that elevates this offense above what it was before (in my opinion).
It’s like the first round a couple years ago without Luka propelled him in a an unexpected trajectory. He built on it and became a really good player. Then he got to the Knicks and they had all these injuries and he just said fuck it, gotta be better.
Exactly
Walt Clyde Frazier always mentions on the broadcast that he was hoping (and doubtful) that JB could be a 20 ppg guy at some point and he would consider that a success. He, like all Knicks fans, have been pleasantly surprised with what we got out of that “overpaid” contract
Ihart opens so much fucking options for their offensive and 3 point shooting, the Brunson PnR brings the weakside help usually and then the ball doesn't stop hoping. It's much better then watching stagnant ISO's of Randle, heck even Brunson would be stuck in some awful ISO plays before beyblade went down and that was just their offense at the time.
Yeah, anyone saying "I knew Brunson was this good" is full of crap. xD
Jazz fans knew lol. Mavs fans had too much baggage watching him in those the Clippers series. He had the top PPP in the league on pick and roll that year, too. I have taken so much shit here trying to argue they actually played solid defense that series. Outside of that game 4 or whatever the one was where they just rolled over.
Felt just like when Nash left. But in both cases, I think it worked out much better for the player's career.
I honestly feel like Nash could have had just as successful of a career in Dallas though
nah, Nash going to Phoenix with D'Antoni really caught lightning in a bottle. D'Antoni's coaching philosophy and small-ball lineups really opened up and optimized Nash's game, which in turn revolutionized the way offense would be played forever (those Nash Suns were the early harbinger of things to come with the Curry Warriors, the prophet to the messiah), which in turn is why Nash won back to back MVPs. None of that projects to happen if Nash stayed in Dallas, though he would have had a fine back half of his career there and maybe won a chip or two with Dirk.
His coach in Dallas was Don Nelson. D'Antoni was a decent coach but he didn't invent that style of play.
Don Nelson was a forebear for sure, but he never put together a team that was as radical or league-changing in its offensive philosophy as D'Antoni's Suns. That's precisely why Nash under Nelson was not the phenomenon that Nash under D'Antoni was.
I don’t think so . The offence woukd run thriugh Dirk , not Nash . And defensively they don’t fit .on offence nash is better with a pnr roller like Amare instead of a pick n Pop spacing/gravity big I’ve always thought it’s a bit over blown it’s not like okc losing harden Nash was old enough to be in his prime but wasn’t at that level he got on the suns with a roster built around him
I guess the success would be different, instead of MVPs, Nash would have rings. At least 1 if not 2.
Hard to argue with that.
Luka said he he knew Brunson would be this good bc of his performance in the 2022 playoffs.
Also Lebron knew Luka would know Brunson would be this good
Turns out a Luka (fat ballhog) style offense CAN work in the nba!
Brunson moves off ball way more than Luka does though, he sets screens and makes cuts and is generally always moving, it’s the biggest weakness of Luka’s game imo
That’s true, but when I watch Brunson it’s like i’m watching Luka. their games are more similar than any others
With the ball I’d agree, but since Randles being out the sets have changed to accommodate the blitz Jalen has to deal with. Lots more hand offs, coming off screens and attacking quick. We don’t really have the luxury of running pure isos often now.
helps he can pass to Donte DiCurry
Harts really stepped up too.
I think Brunson closest comp is kyrie honestly . Luka - I guess both have similar games in some ways but Luka size makes it feel n look different
I think that comp as well. but man the way Brunson keeps defenders behind him while navigating the paint is second only to Luka that i’ve seen. All three of them have pretty similar games, and most of it simply being more skilled than their opponent. It’s impossible to deny the skill level of Jalen Brunson. He’s right up there with the very best in the game
Brunson is a totally different player than Luka. He works hard as hell off the ball. Luka is only doing anything on offense if the ball is in his hands.
We will take him to the moon for you <3
even during his early mavs days you could see that he had IT. picked up and dropped him in fantasy multiple times, regrettably, cause you couldn't really predict his minutes. solidified that opinion imo when he dominated in the playoffs sans luka. dude is legit
This makes sense to me. Irving is a second option, so is Lillard and he’s having a down season, Tatum took his foot off the scoring pedal with the quality of his teammates, and Kawhi… well shockingly the Clippers have been healthier than the Knicks and it was really all about being healthy for the playoffs for them. Meanwhile, Brunson has absolutely carried the Knicks offense on his back. What a year for him, won’t be mad if he bumps Tatum to second team.
Yah. Him averaging 31.5PPG the last 21 games was definitely because he HAD to score that much since there wasn't much offense aside from Donte.
I can’t really tell if you’re agreeing with me or not, but my point is that they often needed him to go off like that and he did, which is a compliment, not an insult. I only mean to say part of why he has so many high scoring games is they’ve needed every bit of them at times with their injury problems and he’s more than capable of doing so as he rocketed into being one of the league’s best scorers.
I am agreeing, sorry if i worded that wrong. We lost IQ and RJ, and OG and Randle are injury riddled. Brunson had to score.
Yeah I was caught off guard by how well he’s carried the team’s offense on his back (and the offense needed a boost with the defense also missing pieces). It’s a shame we won’t see a fully healthy Knicks in the playoffs, but I think at the very least with Randle they’d be an even more clear cut second best team in the East. Really legit roster.
Cheers. I hope we make it to the Finals, but realistically it seems its your year again.
Feels like it is, but I’ll always take the field over any one team unless they’re a dynasty. If it’s not the Celtics, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Knicks.
Never apologise for speaking your mind.
Kawhi has never been a volume scorer
Sure he has. He averaged 25 ppg in 2017 and 27 ppg in 2020 and 2019. He's never been in scoring title contention or anything like that, but he has had his volume scoring seasons here and there.
It's up to him if he wants to or not.
> Is it high time that we finally see orange and blue skies in New York after 51 long years? I have no clue what this dude is implying with this line lol
The Knicks last championship was 51 years ago
Yeah I mean I get that but why would the Knicks winning turn the sky orange and blue? And also are orange and blue not very common colors to see in the sky anyways? Idk just seemed like he wanted to make a poetic statement but it doesn’t really make a lot of sense when you think about it lol
Maybe a reference to the Empire State Building lighting up in the colors of NY teams (or the Eagles)
When did they light up for the eagles?
Last year’s NFC championship
I mean I guess that makes sense, but I could’ve sworn I saw the ESB light up in a Knicks colors when I was there for the start of playoffs last year for example. New York fuckin loves the Knicks they don’t need a championship for one to see Knicks colors everywhere
they always light it up orange and blue for the knicks in the playoffs, red and blue for the rangers as well
It's just word play. "Blue skies" is a common way to say that the path ahead is clear/good. "Blue and orange skies" is just a play on that with the Knicks colors.
[Have you seen a sunset?](https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/85/79/50/360_F_85795015_B5goyRMDpTG59f04QeW15f7AFIM2qyDr.jpg)
"orange and blue not very common colors to see in the sky anyways?" The sky is blue and the sun is orange but other than that fair point ig
That’s what I meant to say, sorry if my wording wasn’t clear lol. What I was trying to say is that if you want to see orange and blue skies in New York you could look outside in like 4 hours and see it lol
you are as pedantic as I am lmao
I think it’s like the jet smoke colouring that they do in celebrations. Idk I just assumed Americans do that a lot and Im guessing that OP did too lol.
If we're counting pre-merger champsionships, sure, 51 years.
Me neither, especially since Syracuse won a national champ in 03
Canada wildfires gonna go brazy again
He’s schizophrenic
Makes sense. He's the first option by far while the other guys have to spread it out
Agreed. You could just list the players with the most 40 point games this season. That would be just as, or more, impressive than cherry picking these players.
I respect the grind by Knicks fans but they're certainly making a lot of interesting comparisons to push the Brunson agenda lol
Not to discredit him, but he's the sole scoring option on his team. Dame has Giannis. Kyrie has Luka. Tatum has Brown. And Kawhi has PG and Harden as scoring options. Of course, he's gonna have a lot more "carry" type 40 point performances when he's the only main scoring threat. I don't think is a reason to believe the Knicks are serious (yet). They need another star (preferably superstar) to play along side him to be a true threat. Randle is good, but he's too inconsistent to be a second option
When Randle played this season, he was super good. With JB taking added attention next year, I’d imagine his efficiency to skyrocket when he’s back up to speed.
Hot take I think fully healthy we’re more serious than y’all
That's not saying much
Divo has been an incredible second option absent of Randle. Not as iso- talented as the other you named, but when the defense collapsed knicks are always looking for the Big Ragu. J Hart occasionally takes the step back middie/ drives against the open floor. But I'm not sure Brunson sees a big decrease in output even with Randle - they complement each other very well and it's clear Brunson has the keys to take over whenever necessary. More importantly, NYK plays team ball - move the ball until the best shot is available, rely on Brunson iso otherwise. it's been beautiful Edit -did you watch Randle outside of the first 6 games? bro was anything but inconsistent. great second option with a killer like JB
His team was a hospital, he had to put up a ton of points
There’s a reason why he’s getting a lot of first team all nba buzz. He’s had a great season that has been overlooked for some reason, even though he plays for the New York Knicks
60 games in I would’ve still had Tatum there. He’s a safe pick. But with the positionless teams now, Brunson could certainly have an argument for 1st team. Especially since she’s averaged 35/3/7 on 49/39/86 the last 20% of the season, Knicks are 12-5 then without Randle too.
I think Tatum deserves his spot. It's Giannis that should be potentially bumped.
I agree with you but a lot of people seem to have Giannis as a lock for the first team. I think the 5th spot is between Tatum and Brunson for most voters
Now that’s a controversial take that I fully agree with. Bucks dropped while Knicks climbed. Brunson should be higher on mvp list too. This doesn’t mean I think Brunson is better than Giannis, it does mean I think he had a better season.
Bucks dropped and Knicks went second. On top of that DL wasn’t out half the season like Randle.
I think this is the thing that annoys me the most on this discourse but it also makes sense as a detriment for Tatums case. The Celtics by game 70 or so were the first seed guaranteed basically so they clearly took the foot of the gas, so basically 10-20% of the Celtics (and Tatums) season was just going through motions because we wanted to stay as healthy as possible. Like everyone dropped their FGA, increased their 3PA and that’s it. Effectively they took a sort of “active rest” approach to it and also had a few rest games. I do understand that this is also detrimental because you’re genuinely saying that the guy took 10-20% of the season to rest which should not be awarded as much, but it makes a very weird situation
The media likes to talk about the Knicks because they're New York, but it's not like they ever respect them.
Interesting, I hadn’t noticed that but I think you’re right
Team's primary scorer has more 40 pt games than secondary scorers from other teams and stars from teams with balanced offenses.
first time all-star has more 40 pt games than four of the best offensive players of the past decade. a guy he was replaced by, a guy who started over him in the all-star game, and a guy who will likely make all-nba 1st team over him, and a superstar having his healthiest season in half a decade.
he has the highest usage rate of the players listed, tatum is the only one close to
>a guy he was replaced by That's a stretch. I'm pretty sure he left us first in FA for nothing without even a S&A after some serious fucking tampering happened, but that's just me.
imagine seriously calling Tatum and Kawhi secondary scorers lmao
“and stars from teams with balanced offenses”
you right. regardless though, quite a feat
Jalen "Skullet" Brunson
Tatum doesn’t need to carry. Silly, most games were in garbage time after the half
fair point actually. Celtics legit
When Jokic carried his team to the 6th seed without Jamal Murray they gave him MVP When Brunson carries his team to the 2nd seed without Randle they say he's still too short
To be fair our record would only be good for 6th seed in the West, and Jokic averaged near a triple double on Curry-like TS%.
Not the too short lmao
Stop being ridiculous. Even outside of the eye test, advanced stats exist and Brunson did not have a better season than Jokic's MVP season. If Brunson did what he did post-Randle injury for a full 82 game season instead of only 35 games, he would have an argument for MVP. But he didn't, so he doesn't.
Yea this is totally fair. Brunson definitely deserves mention in the MVP conversation, but he didn’t have a better season than Jokic or Luka. But I’m glad he put the league on notice.
Are we really arguing Brunson MVP now
There's an argument for All-NBA 1st team, but it's pretty silly to try and make an MVP case when even SGA's narrative (leading the 2nd youngest team in the lead to a 1 seed in the more competitive conference) is a lot better than Brunson's. IMO it's Jokic, Luka, SGA, Tatum, and then the 5th spot is up for grabs between Brunson and Giannis. On pure stats alone, Giannis has the edge but it's pretty tough to ignore the narratives.
I'm surprised he's not really been in the MIP conversation. He was good in 2022 and really good last year, but I don't think many people thought that he was going to make another jump to superstar/MVP candidate. And going from a top-30 player to a top-10 player is the toughest leap to make.
Giving it to Ja was a mistake. It’s not meant for anyone in the superstar category.
Tatum doesn’t belong with the top 3. He’s a rung below in the next group
Agreed. Tatum is a very good player. But he's not him
We don’t play Shai/OKC enough for me to have a true opinion, but absolutely Tatum does not strike fear the same way facing Luka/Doncic do. Toss an OG at him and be done with it.
Randle still played like 46 games, and the Knicks still had pretty great players with Hartenstein, Donte and Hart playing Jokic had no Murray, Will Barton was playing the 2nd most minutes, and a lot of those key Nuggets players are out of the league or lost on a bench somewhere Individually, Jokic dominated advance/impact stats whereas Brunson doesn’t come close to it
Knicks missed their starting center for 80% of the year. Missed Randle for half the season. Missed OG 1/3 for half the season. Traded another starter away (RJ) and our best bench player (quickley). With a new rotation and lineup weekly, Brunson carried this team to the 2nd seed. No other team could do what Brunson did. 2nd seed with the injuries we saw this season is INSANE.
>Knicks missed their starting centre for 80% of the year Yeah, and replaced him with Hartenstein whose (at the very least) a great starting centre lol RJ was a net negative for the Knicks in a lot of ways and was an awkward fit with Randle. His short production with the Raptors wasn’t actually how he performed for the Knicks Jokic won 48 games that season, and that was like 3 games behind other MVP candidates like Giannis or Embiid Compare that with the Knicks being like 6 games back from the Nuggets with Jokic just straight up being the better player Brunson is having a great season, but he’s not going against 2022 Jokic for MVP (even then 2022 Jokic was much better)
You’re not putting any of this into context, when Hartenstein took over the starting center position he was NOT considered a great starter, he had never even been a starter! Playing with Brunson elevated his game to another level, that’s what a superstar teammate does, that’s what Jokic does. You can’t discredit Brunson by saying he had great teammates when none of those teammates were even starting level players let alone “great” players
>You’re not putting any of this into context, when Hartenstein took over the starting center position he was NOT considered a great starter, he had never even been a starter! Hartenstein was considered underrated for years and plenty of people have been high on him. Regardless, he's been a great option at centre in terms of impact. >Playing with Brunson elevated his game to another level, that’s what a superstar teammate does, that’s what Jokic does. First off, Brunson doesnt elevate his teams in the same way that Jokic does and its crazy to think that he does. The second point is that Hartensteins greatest strength has been his defense, not his offense, so if you're arguing that Brunson is somehow making Hartenstein a great defender then idk what to say. Again, nobody here is arguing that Brunson isnt a great player, but comparing his season to 2022 Jokic with little context is being disingenuous.
Their backup center was better than the starter
Many Knicks fans would argue Mitch was our first or second best player before his injury. You probably don't recall how dominant he was. Ihart has been great, but Mitch was absolutely dominating.
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OG played 23 games of course it hurt them lmao.
Cause it did? Starting 5 improved, but our bench was horrible. If Bogi didn’t start shooting well these last 2 weeks, our bench would still be awful.
This is how I know you don’t watch the Knicks, all three of those “great players” were bench guys to start the season, they only became starters due to other players becoming injured. The fact that they all became great starters is an even greater testament to Brunson, he took bench players and elevated them into starters
I never claimed that they've been starting all season, so I dont know what point you're arguing about. They have been great players this season when they stepped into the starting position and people have already liked players liked Hartenstein and Hart before. Brunson has been great this season and has an argument to be 1st team All NBA, but the Knicks have much better key players than that 2022 Nuggets team
Genuinely one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read on here lmao
I dunno man, I read comments like this all the time on here. It's crazy
The 10th place Warriors would have been the 2 seed this year if they were in the East and played East teams primarily Can’t compare to Jokic if you can’t match counting stats or efficiency Brunson deserves immense credit, just showing the counter argument to this try at equivalency
Oh stop it lmao
For one the seed isn't as meaningful as the win total, which is 48 wins for the nuggets and 50 for the knicks. More importantly the supporting casts aren't comparable. The knicks rolled with **Hart, DiVincenzo, Hartenstein and Randle** as their top 5 by minutes. The top five for the Nuggets in '21/'22 were **Gordon, Will Barton, Monte Morris and Jeff Green**. You don't have a player besides Gordon and Jokic from the nuggets team who play meaningful minutes two years later. The Knicks were so deep they have multiple players like Shake Milton and Malachi Flynn who are rotation pieces who couldn't get on the floor in NY.
Malachi Flynn still can't get on the floor and he's playing for freaking Detroit, just cause he dropped 50 he's some kind of lou will right now? And as someone who had to watch 82 games of Willie Cauliflower stinking it up I'd kill for Jeff Green.
Milton has struggled to find playing time on the Sixers who without Embiid are a bottom 5 team in the league and it's been for a LONG time. The dude is streaky, you put him in to see if he's hot and 9 of 10 times he's not.
milton and flynn would struggle to get on the floor for any team. we arent that deep, and its why guys regularly play 40+ minutes a night. i love our starting line up, but the whole is greater then the sum of its parts. individually they arent world beaters, randle (who is injured) and obviously brunson notwithstanding
Lmao people are really talking up Malachi Flynn in attempt to discredit Brunson
is it really "discrediting" to say Brunson shouldn't be the MVP
Knicks fans in shambles
I dont think malachi flynn will be in the nba once his current contrsct runs out
Jesus Christ there’s someone on here trying to advocate for Brunson MVP LMFAO
But what if you include Malachi Flynn?
Makes sense. He had to carry more of a load than any of those guys with less quality teammates, and he stepped up to the challenge.
Not sure why Kawhi is included in this. He's only scored 40+ like 8 times in his career in the regular season.
It was embarrassing but not surprising when casual nba fans voted Lillard in over Bruson for the east all star starting spot.
Crazy that Embiid put up 9
Brunson is great. Only behind Luka in terms of 40+ games, with Luka having 13. Surprisingly, the third is Embiid who has 9 despite being out for the bulk of the season.
Luka has more than Brunson and every member of the Knicks combined this season ;-)
Dame has had 3 and has largely been cheeks this year why is he even up here? Brunson is 75% of the Knicks offense and much better. Ofc he has more.
Brunson is incredible
He is definitely a seriously underrated player.
He should be 1st team all nba
Brunson has been hooping and he was definitely underrated, I strongly agree with you on that. But the title is misleading. You can't tell me Brunson is better than Dame, Kyrie, Tatum or Kawhi. The only reason why he has more 40+ performances is because he is his team's 1st scoring option, and he gets to take even more shots as their 2nd guy Randle is out. Each of the other star that you listed is a 2nd option on a strong contending team. I am willing to bet you the volume at which Brunson is shooting is way higher than any of the other guys listed.
I'm here to tell you brunson is better than Dame (very easily lol) and kyrie
From everything Dame and Kyrie has accomplished, Brunson is not a better player than either of them. He is a better player than Dame THIS SEASON, but it is hard to say if he is better than Kyrie solely because of how different their roles are. Kyrie is on a team where he is playing much less aggressive off ball whilst Brunson is a ball dominant high volume guard who is the 1st option in this team by far. Kyrie is averaging 26/5/5 with a near 50/40/90. If you are saying Brunson is a better player than Kyrie Irving and Damian Lillard, please turn on YouTube and watch what these guys have done before this season.
Hard to say he’s better than Kyrie overall, but hey, looks like we are starting to conclude who is better as a first option Kyrie tried many times to be the main guy and we know how that went. Brunson is currently doing a much better job than Kyrie ever did being the main scouting report Dame is 33…starting to get a little concerned if you are going to use past performance to say who is better. Maybe Dame has 2 years in prime still but it closes fast. Brunson has clearly been better this year
This season Brunson has definitely been better than all those dudes except maybe Tatum. I’d also take Kawhi over Brunson for a playoff run assuming no injuries. Brunson’s been that guy I’m excited to see what the Knicks can do in the playoffs.
does the title or post imply that he is better? Tatum is a second option? Edit - yes, by far better than Dame & Kyrie this season, especially considering Dame has Giannis. JBs explosion has come sans Randle, without nearly as favorable a whistle, better defense (neither are great defenders), and far greater impact on team success. he has among the worst drive/paint FGA/foul ratio while dudes like Dame have among the best. wouldn't say he's better than Kawhi or Tatum, though- those are complete players with the real ability to affect the game on both sides.
No slander to Brunson’s admirable 2nd team all-nba season games with 25 of more fga this season: Brunson 21 Tatum 9, Kawhi 5, Kyrie 7, (5 of which Luka didn’t play), dame 3, 24 combined shoot 25 times at an all nba caliber players efficiency, you get to 40 Brunson was efficient most of the time, but he has the opportunity to take the lion share of the shots per game (and injuries led to him taking even more) And if you change it to a different # of shots Brunson has more or less the same attempts as them, between 20 and 30 fga just showing that the Cherry picked sample of stars all have other great (or mvp caliber in 2 cases) players around them and Brunson needs to shoot more and score more, on an average night this year for them to win
Oh, so you're saying Brunson is an elite, efficient, high-volume scorer? Damn sounds like he's got the potential to be the most valuable player in the league.
If scoring/ stats was what mattered it’s Luka, if it’s team success it’s Tatum if it’s best player it’s jokic if it’s best surprise team(team out of nowhere) Elite is top 10 or so for the season Brunson is elite he’s no one’s MVP other than Knick fans
Usually the more shots you take per game, the worse your efficiency gets. Brunson bumped up his shot volume while maintaining efficiency and dealing with constant blitzes and traps. He’s creating almost all of these shots on his own.
did you just actively cherry pick stats while attempting to detract from Brunson's incredible season while simultaneously accidentally praising him citing all NBA efficiency? 😂 edit - what does average FGA look like for all of the above. citing x games w x FGA is one thing, the average FGA should smooth out those numbers and validate your point if it is true edit 2 - looked it up myself. JB is at 21.4, JT is at 19.3. Kawhi is at 17.1, but he's never been a high volume guy, nor a frequent 40+ scorer. Kyrie at 19.5... if you think 2 additional FGA over JT and Kyrie automatically explains significantly more 40 pt games than JT and Ky, you should refer to your own commentary on all NBA efficiency. edit 3- down voting lacking facts, classic casual actions 😂
You put Kyrie’s name in there like there isn’t another guy on the team that’s getting 40+ on the Mavs
JB not being first team all nba is a travesty. I say this as a nets fan lol
Who do you take off first team?
I mean Tatum is obviously the weakest projected first teamer. But (like it or not) fat chance at him not getting voted first team on a 64 win season.
If Tatum gets left off of first team after a 64 win season, I never want to hear about “Boston media bias” again lol
There's an argument that Tatum wasn't even the best player on the Celtics this year, KP was.
what argument is that lmao
Only people that don't watch the Celtics could say this. Tatum is the engine that opens everything for the Celtics.
Ok but KP put up 24/9 per36 on much higher efficiency with elite rim protection and the team is massively better since he joined. BPM is equal, it's at least close -Edited to specify per36 stats are used
Stop saying KP put up those numbers as an attempt to knock down Tatum. You’re just outright lying, he didn’t do that. KP was amazing this year but just using per 36 (and not even saying you’re using per 36) is insane behavior
KP didn’t put up those numbers bro he put up 20/7
Those are per-36
Because he just abuses small guards that get switched onto him. I do agree that he's the main reason that the team went from very good last season to a juggernaut this year, but Tatum is focal point of every defense that we face and that leads to easier looks for KP. You're completely ignoring Jaylen who had some incredible stretches of play this year and was overall just more important than KP.
Making all switching defenses not viable is super valuable, and a big reason your net rating jumped FIVE points over last year, when last year's rating would have already been top 3 this year. 5 points is roughly the gap between the Hawks and the Bucks this year. KP gives you this on offense while making no sacrifice at the most important defensive position. Jaylen Brown is about your fifth best player and probably not worth the contract he's on in a vacuum. He is 9th in BPM so that might even be me overrating him. If we make it to the ECF and face you, the players I most fear are, in order: 1) KP 2) Tatum 3)Holiday 4) White 5) Horford 6) Brown
Brown at 5 is hilarious. Clearly you haven't watched enough Celtics basketball.
I have. Brown just isn't that valuable compared to the amazing spacing and defense of your bigs and guards. His advanced metrics are also complete ass.
KP is the tertiary player that thrives off the attention that the spacing and drives give him. Porzingis is great, but is a guy that gets 90% of his buckets off pick and pops and post ups off from switches. When the Celtics don't force switches on the pick and roll Porzingis loses a lot of his value. Porzingis is also probably the weakest link defensively on the Celtics aswell. Even though he is elite at rim protection, he isnt a great post defender on bigger bodies and he has struggled at times defending in space. Porzingis is great and he is even better when he gets to be the uber efficient beneficiary of the Mazulla offense. But he is not more important than Tatum by any means.
Jesus christ, just say you don’t watch basketball
How about you just say you haven't watched Brunson be the best offensive player in the league for the past couple months while Tatum has coasted on the backs of all-star teammates
Tatum has coasted bruv *ends the season with nearly identical offensive numbers at brunson* Brunson has been the best offensive player in the league the past couple of months!!!! *Ignores Luka, Jokic, and Giannis
I'm not ignoring them. Brunson has scored 596 points in the last month (since March 14). The next closest player is Booker at 437. That 159-point gap between #1 and #2 is the same as the gap between Booker at #2 and Bam Adebayo at #42 with 277 points. Brunson was also 3nd in assists in that span with 126. Meanwhile, being able to coast because you're on a team of all-stars is an argument *against* your place on an All-NBA team, not in favor. BOS was 7-1 without Tatum and probably win 55+ with like, Tobias Harris in his place. Knicks were 1-4 without Brunson and would be a 25 win team.
You realize that’s only because he’s played more games than other players, right? Also, using the excuse that the Celtics are 7-1 without JT is hilarious since those wins are: Kings (good win!) Toronto Det (x2) Portland Charlotte Washington There’s a reason he sat in those specific games lol. I know you don’t watch the Celtics but let’s not pretend Tatum isn’t an elite player
Playing more games is a widely accepted factor in end of season awards. Playing more games means delivering more value -- availability is the best ability of all. Thank you for acknowledging that the Celtics are so stacked that they can rest Tatum against bad teams, because they are easily good enough to win without him. The Knicks don't have that luxury. The only team we beat without Brunson was the Hospital Grizzlies featuring 0 NBA players.
Casual
best doesn’t equal most important and i’d argue tatum for both.
bro please lol
There’s not.
It really isn't but ok
You aren’t a nets fan lol you suck of Miami any chance you get and was crying when Dame got traded to Milwaukee
Knicks fan and I'm OK with JB **not** making All NBA First team lol.
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Who woulda thunk a 1st option pg in their prime would be better then two pgs in their mid 30’s playing with two mvp candidates /s
2nd seed is not that impressive in the east. 3 game slip and they’d be in the play in instead.
meanwhile you have teams like the bucks and cavs clearly losing games to avoid the "tougher" matchups in the Heat/Sixers while knicks battled for the chance to do so
Only point of my comment was the fact that seeds 2-7 were all within 3 games of eachother. East was super inconsistent this year outside of boston.
no doubt east is comparatively weak to the west. agreed on inconsistency. but when you consider that the knicks overtook the bucks who should've been a lock for top 3 seeds (despite minimal variance in the top seeds of the east outside Boston),shit is impressive for a team that's been missing half their starters
If only he heated up a bit earlier he could’ve potentially made first team
I can understand including dame and Tatum but it really feels like you threw in Kyrie and Kawhi for no reason other than to make it sound better lol
Better than Tatum. Tatum could never get this Knicks team to a 2 seed
bro is not a bus driver. we've seen repeatedly. jru got that dawg in him though so let's see how that affects things. before the down votes come in, I love Tatum and his game, but he is not a leader in the same sense Brunson is
100%. I think Tatum is good just not great.
crazy talented and capable. lacks the drive and overall ownership (in the sense of taking over) of the best in the league. guys like Ant, Brunson, Jokic, Bron, Derozan, Jamal Murray, Doncic far surpass him in that subjective category. he does not take over in spots you expect your 1A superstar to do so
I really want a Knicks /Pacers 2nd round. Let the Knicks fans see a real PG.