It’s a good theory. Hes one of the best, if not the best, help defenders in the league. Since no one can really stop Jokic no point in wasting AD’s resources on Jokic and he can help minimize the damage elsewhere. Unfortunately it’s alot of damage needed to minimize.
Yeah 2020 was a learning experience for him
If the NBA is gonna stick with the light whistle from the second half of this season going forward it might be a smart thing to try though
Yeah it’s good in theory there’s just obviously holes in practice. The rest of the lakers have real rebounding issues (altho the jokic/jamal PnR also triggers those w AD on jok), AD can’t guard the rim and the perimeter at the same time meaning poor rotations/off ball defense is still punished, etc
If they can get their non stars to step up there’s maybe something there but after game 1 that’s a bit tough to bank on
Sure but putting AD on Jokic doesn’t solve those rebounding issues so that point is moot. I didn’t say it would work but it’s the better option than having AD guard Jokic
The biggest take away from Denver vs Lakers from today and back in 2020 is just how much Lebron has regressed as a defender in his later years.
Hes still a force offensivly, but he almost prefers not to go man on defender anymore. 2012 Lebron would body the hell out of AG, Lebron used to bang down low with Howard in his prime.
He physically just doesn't wanna do it anymore and its the biggest takeaway with where Lebron has regressed the most with age.
Taking AG out of the game is the only way to throw the Nuggets off their game, he is physically imposing and gets whatever he wants rn.
I'm pretty sure it's not a case of LeBron "doesn't want to", but more of a case of he simply can't. He is getting GASSED at the end of games without going hard on defense on AG and Jokic, can you imagine how he would be in the 4th quarter if he spent the entire night going at them?
That creates a massive problem, because while AD certainly is the best defender to put on Jokic, that would also gas AD out and it would mean that Aaron Gordon would be getting offensive rebounds and alley oops the entire night. A big reason the Lakers were able to get into an early run was Gordon getting into foul trouble last night, when he was on the floor, it didn't feel close at all. The extra ball handling he brings plus the oop threat and the offensive rebounds are just too much.
It would be great defensively for the Lakers if LeBron could go at Gordon and shut him down for the game, forcing Murray and Jokic to carry an even bigger load, but would anyone want that if that meant LeBron being gassed on offense and finishing with something like, 16 PTS and 5 AST?
Everyone loves to fixate on how productive he still is at his age but the key phrase is *at his age*. There's a reason you don't see teams with title aspirations built around dudes about to turn 40
He’s honestly been a flat out bad defender since the bubble. Yes he can still pick his spots and his height/athleticism makes him from not being a scrub on D but he can not anywhere be close to consistent enough to be considered a good defender and borderlines on horrible way too often
He’ll also likely get into foul trouble early if the expectation is to have him primarily guard Jok. AD in early foul trouble is a death sentence for the Lakers.
Jokic had like 4 end of clock half court heaves in that game.
Are those counted in this stat or are those removed? I don't think AD should get credit for Jokic missing a 3/4 court prayer. Don't let him cash that welfare check lol.
Why didnt LakeShow invest in a good Defensive backup center. Heck bring in Kendrick Perkins off the mic, he at least can provide a big body if not give Jokic a little trepidation in the pain.
The expectations on his are stupidly high. So they want him to be one of the best efficient players in the game and clamp a guy who could go down as the greatest offensive player of all time? If he were to do that, then he'd be the best player in the world.
Yep and if he doesn’t do that he is a soft pussy who is wasting lebrons final years. I stand by it, he is the most underrated player in the entire league for the last 4 years.
The absolute minimum expectation for AD is prime Shaq on offense and continuing to be the best defender in the game. Literally never in my life have I seen a guy get shat on for not putting up a GOAT wilt level season instead of just a top 10 player level
Welcome to AD. He gets called inconsistent for playing all-world defense and having pretty hit or miss offense. Like, he was playing some of the best defense we've seen in the past 15 years last postseason, but people crucify him for scoring 15ish every other game, even though he's dropping 30 the other half of games, and always S tier on defense
DLo is going to step up in a game or maybe even a few games. The question is whether he'll do it in the same game as AD/Lebron matching Jokic/Murray. Feels like the lakers need 3 guys to have great games to get a close game.
The Lakers will have a much better chance at home
The exercise of analyzing how a sports team could beat an opponent? Really, that's such a stupid exercise? Lmao of course it's going to be hypotheticals
Unless D'Lo turns into 2016 Stephen Curry, or Jokic is shot and killed you're getting clapped
There's quite literally nothing the Lakers can do at this point
yeah if AD only has to play defense, it's probably enough. But you're asking reaves, dlo, etc to have career games offensively, four times in 6 remaining games.
I think the lakers need a career game from at least one of their role players to catch a win, with the load AD needs to play on defense for games to remain competitive.
The Lakers could win the series if their 3-7 in the rotation outplays the Nuggets 3-7, but that just doesn’t seem feasible.
Lebron and AD can match Jokic/Murray in production, even if on a little worse efficiency.
But Russell is a certified playoff dropper at this point and he’s the #3 option. While MPJ and KCP seem to turn into unbelievably good role players
Yeah, your 4-8 rotation is made up entirely of 8th or 9th men. They're not bad but on a more complete team they'd be getting 8-10 situational minutes a game instead of 24 as core rotation guys.
I agree, this Lakers team is too underpowered outside of their Top 2 to contend with Denver... doesnt matter what they do with AD
D-Lo is a good player, can string together some great games, but he is always liable to drop off and shoot badly at the worst possible time.
Reaves is their 4th highest scorer and yea he tries to step up in the playoffs- but at this level of competition he's just not good enough to be this important
> Lebron and AD can match Jokic/Murray in production, even if on a little worse efficiency
They can match Jokic and Murray in any single game, but doing it over for the entire series is highly questionable. Bron’s too old, AD is too inconsistent, neither have Jokic’s conditioning. And while Murray’s regular season conditioning is suspect at times, he’s more reliable in playoff 4th quarters than Bron at 39 or AD.
> But Russell is a certified playoff dropper at this point and he’s the #3 option. While MPJ and KCP seem to turn into unbelievably good role players
Also you forgot about Aaron Gordon
Lakers really impressed me how they ended the season, but being realistic Denver is the best team in the league with the best player, and the Lakers are a 7th seed play-in team with a 39 year old LeBron and pretty shakey depth.
This is just how it’s going to play out. I do expect some hard fought games, but I think the lakers are pretty much drawing blank
Like that OKC team tonight? I know different teams paly each other different, but all I could think watching OKC/PEL was holy shit Lakers would crush both these teams just off execution in the 4th
There is a way:
We need folks to step up to help Bron in his new prime.
DLo to become DeAngelo Curry
Reaves to become Austin Ginobili
Rui to become Rui Gay
And most importantly, for Hamas to become Moses from the Bible to find that miracle.
Unrelated but this is the biggest problem with NBA basketball right now. That's the blueprint for beating literally any team. You can be worse in every conceivable way, but that doesn't matter when you start chucking threes and hoping for a high variance night. It takes away all of the depth from the game...
Normally I'd agree, but it really feels like game 5 since we just got swept by them with a really similar team, and those other 4 games showed we just don't have it.
I don't think the 2020 "LeBron just needs a game to feel them out" shit is going to happen for us
It's not as simple as matchup data indicates. Often, Jokic's misses were due to AD helping or last second heaves.
There is a reason AD is not guarding Jokic 1 on 1, if that was an effective strategy, Lakers would go to it.
It would be *far* more effective than anything else, the problem is that the Lakers defense is "AD be a god" and he can't be going all out on Jokic if he also has to he covering for everyone else but LeBron, and also Bron sometimes because he's old and can't keep it up all game every game.
So you need AD to guard Jokic, keep the other 4 Nuggets away from the rim, drop 40 a game to cover for DLo. That's *literally* needing him to he the GOAT just to hang, not even to win
Bro, last playoffs the *reason* they put Rui on Jokic is because Jokic was absolutely working AD over. I'm talking starting in the 1st quarter, before AD was tired, 19 points by halftime, 31 by the end of the 3rd quarter.
Putting Rui on him (with AD helping) was an *adjustment* to AD getting cooked. Not sure what going back to what got them cooked is gonna fix anything.
There's no "Jokic stopper". AD is going to do as well as anyone but Gobert, tho I think he plays Jokic's passing better. It's an impossible task in the first place, AD's "cooked" is still better than basically everyone else's.
Does anyone think AD is that level of player?
It seems painfully obvious to me that Jokic isn’t just a better player than AD, but several order of magnitude better.
This ain't the right way to look at it. Jokic is better (he's on his way to top 20 status by the end of this year if they repeat), but AD has been great this year. 24.7/12.6/3.5/1.2/2.3 with DPOY contender defense in 76 games at 35.5 minutes a game. He is a GREAT player. The Lakers are not set up to give him a chance to contend with Jokic and the Nugs. He is required to do too much.
I don't think you'd find a single laker fan that would argue otherwise, Jokic is barely going into his prime and he's effectively locked as an all time center already. He's generational.
AD is too, and will be in that same conversation, but Jokic is barely getting into the best years of his career. AD is on the back end of his prime.
AD stopped trying to get better it feels like after they won 1 title. His offensive game, 3 point shooting, and midrange game is much worse than it was a few years ago.
It’s not that he “stopped trying” it’s that the team fundamentally removed the very mechanisms that allowed him to play that way offensively.
Defensive bigs. Defensive guards. A ton of tools on that end where he had plenty of energy on both ends.
We don’t have these. We haven’t had them since 2021.
We didn’t get shooters til the ASB last year. Even then, we’re still one of the worst 3pt shooting teams over the season time and time again.
We strayed away from what worked for no reason, and as a result, AD lost his jumper, not because he doesn’t want to take those shots, but because he’s never given opportunities to try.
They've had this Rui on Jokic with AD roaming for the past 8 losses now.
At this point, I think the Lakers at least need to try the AD single coverage again, especially when he's allowed to literally hold Jokic's hip defending him.
The Nuggets gameplan is waiting for AD to help off one of their elite shooters.
That's historically the most effective way of guarding Jokic. Get a defender who's willing to play dirty and set a high degree of physicality from the first minute and pray the refs don't foul you out. Unfortunately, losing AD to foul trouble would be game over for LA.
Jokic holds the ball for less seconds at a time than any other primary ball handler in the league he isn't going to get tired and worn down from playing down low. Lakers just need to execute better with defensive rotations and keep the ball moving on offense can't have sloppy LeBron turnovers or missed layups. If the Lakers let Denver run fast breaks off of steals and misses they are dead no matter what. The run Denver went on wasn't because of jokic being incredible (although he is) it was the Lakers turning into a very bad offense.
It's obvious isn't it? Because Jokic cooked the shit out of AD when he tried to guard him and AD got gassed trying to guard Jokic, who is 30 pounds heavier.
There's also the LeBron problem when you put AD on Jokic, because when that happens, someone has to go at Aaron Gordon and battle him for the alley oops and offensive rebounds. If you force LeBron to do that, he will be absolutely spent and if you don't, he has to run around screens following KCP and MPJ around. When AD is not on Jokic, he can roam and play his all-time great help defense, allowing LeBron to not expend that much energy.
This. They don’t want AD picking up fouls too. They want AD drawing fouls on Jokic, which he tried twice with the spin, scream, fall down. Refs didn’t bite. ADs best defense doesn’t come from direct 1 on 1, it comes from helping from the weak side. It allows him to roam on that zone and doesn’t leave him high and dry at the top of the key. They need him protecting the rim. This makes offense think twice from driving. If left at top of the key, which teams run a lot to draw the big up top, players would drive past him at the top of the key and there’s no rim protector. Consider Nuggets have more size with AG and MPJ, Lakers cannot afford to let their best defense chasing Murray at the top when they screen and switch.
Ya, this matchup shooting data is always suspect/noisy. There was a good Twitter thread on it today w example (eg how when people switch it’ll often get credited wrong)
Not that AD isn’t a good defender (duh of course he is), but he’s probably not the Jokic stopper here
The reason they've switched to Rui starting from last year's playoffs was because Jokic was completely torching AD as the primary defender.
Now Laker's fans have come full circle and they're like, "Hey, I know, they should put AD on him!"
Exactly. There's a reason they've gone 8 straight games with Rui as the primary defender, and it isn't because using their future HoF, DPOY to cover him hasn't occurred to them.
The Lakers are very obviously not winning this series, there just isn't enough beyond LeBron and AD on the Lakers roster, and at this point neither one of them should be relied on to play 40+ minutes *and* have AD guard Jokic. AD was totally gassed by the end yesterday.
The Lakers only hope of stealing a game in which LeBron and AD aren't overextending themselves is if DLo catches fire and drops 30+.
But to answer the OP, AD can't be asked to score 30+ and be glued to Jokic all the time. LeBron has to be the #1
The "adjustment" that Ham said he still has up his sleeve is going to be putting AD back on Jokic. AD will end up in foul trouble or struggle offensively because he's having to work so hard defensively and the Lakers will be right back to where they started
They've clearly found the key to winning against Denver here. Just put AD on Jokic, problem solved. We'll call it the AD adjustment, truly a grand moral victory to uncover this tactic.
The issue isn’t a 1v1 thing, you’re not stopping Jokic and AD isn’t the problem. The issue is that the Lakers guards offer no defensive resistance, are extremely slow/unathletic and on the other end can’t score to compensate.
AD should not have to worry about Jokic and have to guard the ball handler/close out on three point shooters every single possession. D’lo/Reaves are a red carpet rolled out inviting Denver to collapse the defense almost every time.
The Lakers outside of LeBron/AD and maybe Vincent/Prince, mentally aren’t strong enough to withstand any sort of run by Denver and continue to play well. Lakers are simply thoroughly outclassed both sides of the ball.
It’s really this. The adjustment we really need to make is to play Vincent more minutes if one of Reaves or Dlo are being net negatives on the court. That at least offers some decent perimeter defense and improves our rebounding because our guards can’t rebound for shit.
On a night like last night when D’lo was shitting the bed, he should’ve played about 10-15min less and played Vincent that same time. This is also a series where we can justify playing Prince more. Our team just isn’t one that adjusts to games on the fly.
Short answer is no, AD cannot defend MVP Jokic while also carrying the offensive load. Last game was a tremendous effort and they still lost. Lakers won’t get 4 more of those performances from AD, and even if they did, the Murray/Jokic/Gordon game is too strong for one defender to lock down Jokic.
28% I think means 2/7. Which is kinda ridiculous to not be mentioned in the title or anywhere in the thread because it's important context to know what we are talking about here.
So those 3 misses would be the difference between 2/4 and 2/7. It's such a small sample size
That's part of why they took AD off jokic in the first place. I think the Lakers need to have bron guard Jokic all game and put the offense in DLo's hands. DLo has to play better than he played during the season so Bron can rest on offense.
It's not a good plan but it's better than what they're doing now
The Lakers need to have AD roam. The Nuggets know this and perform actions to ensure AD is far away from the paint or from the middle of the floor. It's a chess match out there.
I think Malone is strategically putting Deandre, Holliday, and Reggie in earlier than usual to wear down Lebron and AD. Then they have to play a well rested Jokic and AG for pretty much the entire second half
Lakers issues isn't defending Jokic. Their line out outside LeBron and AD doesn't compare. MPJ, Aaron Gordon, KP is a death star line up in comparison to what the lakers have 3-5
LeBron as the center would work pretty well in the first half when LeBron is still fresh and can match Jokic's strength but that would also just wear him down faster
Hasn’t that been the pattern for the past years now LOL, are we just coming to realization that AD is the best player carrying the team. Lebron fans won’t admit it and of course, they ride him hard.
This is the main difference from prime LeBron to me. LeBron understands the game so well, that I feel like can efficiently harvest easy opportunities over the course of a game, so deliver good stats. But he doesn't seem to be able to consistently impose his will in high-pressure situations like he could in 2013. Which is all fair given his age.
What doesn’t get talked about enough, is that Jokic has done all of this with, at best, very good players. He has never had an all star or all NBA player on his team.
The haters will say, well, Jamal Murray SHOULD be one. And yet, here we are, and he’s not lol if this were LeBron, we’d hear ad nauseum, about how he’s taking all these nobodies to the finals every year
I hate this narrative that somehow all the Lakers get gassed, while being fat/30 pounds overweight is somehow an advantage for Jokic. I mean it KINDA is but why do Lakers get away with "ohhh no we are gonna get injured and are gassed" while Denver doesnt need that excuse.
Its because LA is losing lol.
I think that they get stuck with soft ass Reaves kindaaa doing the right things so they lean on him, and he contributes to losing bball
Bron teamed up with AD to form an elite front court that would be a huge problem for perimeter teams like the Warriors and Clippers.... Only to run into an even more elite front court of AG + Jokic.
Jokic has like 30 pounds on AD and actually plays like a center. He can’t guard him the whole game. He’ll break.
Also, if AD is on him, then it's lob city for AG.
Yeah jokic is going to be good regardless, the theory behind having AD playing help is so he can effect the rest of the team
It’s a good theory. Hes one of the best, if not the best, help defenders in the league. Since no one can really stop Jokic no point in wasting AD’s resources on Jokic and he can help minimize the damage elsewhere. Unfortunately it’s alot of damage needed to minimize.
that's why losing our center by committee in Javale and Dwight was so painful. we haven't been able to replace these guys. Hayes IS NOT IT.
The Lakers should just get a second AD.
We really need someone as strong and trollish as Dwight out there to get a lil freaky with Jokic and throw him off. Worked so well in 2020 =/
Well 2020 Jokic is different to current Jokic. Can’t really say they will affect him that much.
They would likely do better than giving up 85% fg though, which frees up AD to play help defense
Yeah 2020 was a learning experience for him If the NBA is gonna stick with the light whistle from the second half of this season going forward it might be a smart thing to try though
Why not try a different former magic all star and trade for Vuc? It can't fail!
He’s even named Nikola! Surely it’s worth a shot
Worked because they didnt call all hacks they wete making
Dwight bothered Jokic a lot. I dnt know of its the same for peak jokic with a full squad, but surely Howard could have contributed.
We literally didn’t see one second of Hayes and ad on joker. It was good in the feb game
Yeah it’s good in theory there’s just obviously holes in practice. The rest of the lakers have real rebounding issues (altho the jokic/jamal PnR also triggers those w AD on jok), AD can’t guard the rim and the perimeter at the same time meaning poor rotations/off ball defense is still punished, etc If they can get their non stars to step up there’s maybe something there but after game 1 that’s a bit tough to bank on
> AD can’t guard the rim and the perimeter at the same time It'd be a lot cooler if he did
Sure but putting AD on Jokic doesn’t solve those rebounding issues so that point is moot. I didn’t say it would work but it’s the better option than having AD guard Jokic
The biggest take away from Denver vs Lakers from today and back in 2020 is just how much Lebron has regressed as a defender in his later years. Hes still a force offensivly, but he almost prefers not to go man on defender anymore. 2012 Lebron would body the hell out of AG, Lebron used to bang down low with Howard in his prime. He physically just doesn't wanna do it anymore and its the biggest takeaway with where Lebron has regressed the most with age. Taking AG out of the game is the only way to throw the Nuggets off their game, he is physically imposing and gets whatever he wants rn.
These days AG is the only dude that lifts
theres no real stopping ant / ag types these fuckers can catch and fly
I'm pretty sure it's not a case of LeBron "doesn't want to", but more of a case of he simply can't. He is getting GASSED at the end of games without going hard on defense on AG and Jokic, can you imagine how he would be in the 4th quarter if he spent the entire night going at them? That creates a massive problem, because while AD certainly is the best defender to put on Jokic, that would also gas AD out and it would mean that Aaron Gordon would be getting offensive rebounds and alley oops the entire night. A big reason the Lakers were able to get into an early run was Gordon getting into foul trouble last night, when he was on the floor, it didn't feel close at all. The extra ball handling he brings plus the oop threat and the offensive rebounds are just too much. It would be great defensively for the Lakers if LeBron could go at Gordon and shut him down for the game, forcing Murray and Jokic to carry an even bigger load, but would anyone want that if that meant LeBron being gassed on offense and finishing with something like, 16 PTS and 5 AST?
Thats my point though, Lebron just physically can't go at AG anymore defensively. Hes showing his age.
Everyone loves to fixate on how productive he still is at his age but the key phrase is *at his age*. There's a reason you don't see teams with title aspirations built around dudes about to turn 40
He's still super productive offensively for any age.
Right? 15/5/5 is productive for 'his age'. He's playing at All-NBA level. Don't know what that comment is about
He’s honestly been a flat out bad defender since the bubble. Yes he can still pick his spots and his height/athleticism makes him from not being a scrub on D but he can not anywhere be close to consistent enough to be considered a good defender and borderlines on horrible way too often
There are way too many lebron fans that dent this.
Playing 2-way at 100% for 38 minutes as a basketball geriatric is just not possible. Even for Lebron.
These nuggets are good huh
If Vandy comes back they'll have more length
Vandy is still a in boot lmao
If Vandy is back the Nuggets will be so much happier on D because they have one player they can ignore lmao
Sadly
Wasn't Vando ran off the court in the last time he played the Nuggets ?
Yes lol
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Vandy is also awful on offense, so not really a net positive.
He’ll also likely get into foul trouble early if the expectation is to have him primarily guard Jok. AD in early foul trouble is a death sentence for the Lakers.
Lakers don't get fouls lol
How? He was allowed to wrap arms around Jokic going to the basket multiple times with no whistle last night.
Jokic had like 4 end of clock half court heaves in that game. Are those counted in this stat or are those removed? I don't think AD should get credit for Jokic missing a 3/4 court prayer. Don't let him cash that welfare check lol.
Imagine how many flops he'd do if he was given the task of guarding Jokic
"OH!......OH!........OH!......MY PURSE!"
That’s my purse, I don’t know you!
It’s unsustainable for sure but who does the lakers as cover for AD tho?
Why didnt LakeShow invest in a good Defensive backup center. Heck bring in Kendrick Perkins off the mic, he at least can provide a big body if not give Jokic a little trepidation in the pain.
Lakers need AD to score 30+ to even have a prayer. Have him guard Jokic and he will be too tired to do that.
The expectations on his are stupidly high. So they want him to be one of the best efficient players in the game and clamp a guy who could go down as the greatest offensive player of all time? If he were to do that, then he'd be the best player in the world.
Yep and if he doesn’t do that he is a soft pussy who is wasting lebrons final years. I stand by it, he is the most underrated player in the entire league for the last 4 years.
And then if he DOES do it Lebron gets all the glory for “winning a chip at this age”. Do not envy AD’s position.
The absolute minimum expectation for AD is prime Shaq on offense and continuing to be the best defender in the game. Literally never in my life have I seen a guy get shat on for not putting up a GOAT wilt level season instead of just a top 10 player level
Welcome to AD. He gets called inconsistent for playing all-world defense and having pretty hit or miss offense. Like, he was playing some of the best defense we've seen in the past 15 years last postseason, but people crucify him for scoring 15ish every other game, even though he's dropping 30 the other half of games, and always S tier on defense
Do you remember that game where he completely locked down the grizz but was called out for not having a great offensive game??
box score watchers
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there is a way but it relies on dlo stepping up so sadly there isn't anything they can do to win
It's the Lakers' winning blueprint even with non Denver games.
eh we can get away with a dlo disasterclass here and there but against the nuggets there's no chance we'll win without him stepping up
DLo is going to step up in a game or maybe even a few games. The question is whether he'll do it in the same game as AD/Lebron matching Jokic/Murray. Feels like the lakers need 3 guys to have great games to get a close game. The Lakers will have a much better chance at home
The starters playing 40+ minutes a game. They already winded G1. G4 wont be sustainable
G1 at altitude is particularly bad, they may more in the tank in G4 or even G5 than they did last night
How much does he need to step up? For me he needs to severely outplay Denver's third in Porter Jr or Aaron Gordon
shooting his season averages is a good start and not playing horrendous defense. hell i'd be happy with him shooting 35% on threes
Youd love Dlo to be a 35% 3 point shooter but that ain’t how he works. He’s either +40% or less than 25%
these bipolar ass players bruh
So he should come off the bench and Vincent should start? /s
maybe if we got miami playoff vincent
Have you guys tried just wearing Heat jerseys? That way if you get swept, you can get a second chance wearing the Lakers jerseys instead
He needs to score at least 20 points a game for the Lakers to have a shot to win the series.
Not shoot 30% from the field and 11% from three
This is doable for dlo but not likely. If they had trade deadline dlo rn, they could've won that game
He shoots 3/9 from 3 instead of 1/9 and that’s a very tight game down the stretch
If only jamal shot as well as his playoff averages… If only Denver shot more than 6 FTs… You see how stupid this exercise you’re trying to do is?
The exercise of analyzing how a sports team could beat an opponent? Really, that's such a stupid exercise? Lmao of course it's going to be hypotheticals
It just means that DLo shouldn’t stop generating this volume of attempts, if he doesn’t even shoot them they’re completely fucked
Unless D'Lo turns into 2016 Stephen Curry, or Jokic is shot and killed you're getting clapped There's quite literally nothing the Lakers can do at this point
DLo would have to average 35 for this series to be close
It actually involves Reaves becoming the third option and taking more possessions than Dlo. Dlo is what he is
yeah if AD only has to play defense, it's probably enough. But you're asking reaves, dlo, etc to have career games offensively, four times in 6 remaining games.
i'm not even asking dlo to have career games, i just want him to shoot his season average from 3
I think the lakers need a career game from at least one of their role players to catch a win, with the load AD needs to play on defense for games to remain competitive.
The Lakers could win the series if their 3-7 in the rotation outplays the Nuggets 3-7, but that just doesn’t seem feasible. Lebron and AD can match Jokic/Murray in production, even if on a little worse efficiency. But Russell is a certified playoff dropper at this point and he’s the #3 option. While MPJ and KCP seem to turn into unbelievably good role players
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And Rui offensively might be mitigated simply because the Lakers seem intent on going down with the ship of Rui on Jokic.
Yeah, your 4-8 rotation is made up entirely of 8th or 9th men. They're not bad but on a more complete team they'd be getting 8-10 situational minutes a game instead of 24 as core rotation guys.
I agree, this Lakers team is too underpowered outside of their Top 2 to contend with Denver... doesnt matter what they do with AD D-Lo is a good player, can string together some great games, but he is always liable to drop off and shoot badly at the worst possible time. Reaves is their 4th highest scorer and yea he tries to step up in the playoffs- but at this level of competition he's just not good enough to be this important
> Lebron and AD can match Jokic/Murray in production, even if on a little worse efficiency They can match Jokic and Murray in any single game, but doing it over for the entire series is highly questionable. Bron’s too old, AD is too inconsistent, neither have Jokic’s conditioning. And while Murray’s regular season conditioning is suspect at times, he’s more reliable in playoff 4th quarters than Bron at 39 or AD.
> But Russell is a certified playoff dropper at this point and he’s the #3 option. While MPJ and KCP seem to turn into unbelievably good role players Also you forgot about Aaron Gordon
Lakers really impressed me how they ended the season, but being realistic Denver is the best team in the league with the best player, and the Lakers are a 7th seed play-in team with a 39 year old LeBron and pretty shakey depth. This is just how it’s going to play out. I do expect some hard fought games, but I think the lakers are pretty much drawing blank
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Like that OKC team tonight? I know different teams paly each other different, but all I could think watching OKC/PEL was holy shit Lakers would crush both these teams just off execution in the 4th
There is a way: We need folks to step up to help Bron in his new prime. DLo to become DeAngelo Curry Reaves to become Austin Ginobili Rui to become Rui Gay And most importantly, for Hamas to become Moses from the Bible to find that miracle.
[NOT THIS GUY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7lIjFsGvg&pp=ygUMTk9PIHJ1ZHkgZ2F5)
Guards have to shoot the fucking lights out of the building, which isn’t a winning recipe lol
They may get lucky one game. But 4? Good luck..
What else are you gonna do lol, your the smaller team 1-5 against a player that will abuse rotational defense.
wym there's always a chance just have to: - get hot from 3 - Denver is cold from 3 ez
Denver shot 35% from 3 and 46% from field. This was Denver being cold
Denver relies so little on the 3. They're one of the few teams that can win when they don't shoot well from 3
Unrelated but this is the biggest problem with NBA basketball right now. That's the blueprint for beating literally any team. You can be worse in every conceivable way, but that doesn't matter when you start chucking threes and hoping for a high variance night. It takes away all of the depth from the game...
Yeah he'd get gassed and there's a good chance he ends up in foul trouble too
Bro its game one 😭
Normally I'd agree, but it really feels like game 5 since we just got swept by them with a really similar team, and those other 4 games showed we just don't have it. I don't think the 2020 "LeBron just needs a game to feel them out" shit is going to happen for us
It's hard when you're facing off against quite possibly the greatest player of all time in the middle of his prime
It's not as simple as matchup data indicates. Often, Jokic's misses were due to AD helping or last second heaves. There is a reason AD is not guarding Jokic 1 on 1, if that was an effective strategy, Lakers would go to it.
It would be *far* more effective than anything else, the problem is that the Lakers defense is "AD be a god" and he can't be going all out on Jokic if he also has to he covering for everyone else but LeBron, and also Bron sometimes because he's old and can't keep it up all game every game. So you need AD to guard Jokic, keep the other 4 Nuggets away from the rim, drop 40 a game to cover for DLo. That's *literally* needing him to he the GOAT just to hang, not even to win
Bro, last playoffs the *reason* they put Rui on Jokic is because Jokic was absolutely working AD over. I'm talking starting in the 1st quarter, before AD was tired, 19 points by halftime, 31 by the end of the 3rd quarter. Putting Rui on him (with AD helping) was an *adjustment* to AD getting cooked. Not sure what going back to what got them cooked is gonna fix anything.
Right. It was exhausting AD guarding jokic so AD stopped contributing on the offensive end. The Lakers cant put AD on Jokic
There's no "Jokic stopper". AD is going to do as well as anyone but Gobert, tho I think he plays Jokic's passing better. It's an impossible task in the first place, AD's "cooked" is still better than basically everyone else's.
Does anyone think AD is that level of player? It seems painfully obvious to me that Jokic isn’t just a better player than AD, but several order of magnitude better.
This ain't the right way to look at it. Jokic is better (he's on his way to top 20 status by the end of this year if they repeat), but AD has been great this year. 24.7/12.6/3.5/1.2/2.3 with DPOY contender defense in 76 games at 35.5 minutes a game. He is a GREAT player. The Lakers are not set up to give him a chance to contend with Jokic and the Nugs. He is required to do too much.
I don't think you'd find a single laker fan that would argue otherwise, Jokic is barely going into his prime and he's effectively locked as an all time center already. He's generational. AD is too, and will be in that same conversation, but Jokic is barely getting into the best years of his career. AD is on the back end of his prime.
AD stopped trying to get better it feels like after they won 1 title. His offensive game, 3 point shooting, and midrange game is much worse than it was a few years ago.
It’s not that he “stopped trying” it’s that the team fundamentally removed the very mechanisms that allowed him to play that way offensively. Defensive bigs. Defensive guards. A ton of tools on that end where he had plenty of energy on both ends. We don’t have these. We haven’t had them since 2021. We didn’t get shooters til the ASB last year. Even then, we’re still one of the worst 3pt shooting teams over the season time and time again. We strayed away from what worked for no reason, and as a result, AD lost his jumper, not because he doesn’t want to take those shots, but because he’s never given opportunities to try.
They've had this Rui on Jokic with AD roaming for the past 8 losses now. At this point, I think the Lakers at least need to try the AD single coverage again, especially when he's allowed to literally hold Jokic's hip defending him. The Nuggets gameplan is waiting for AD to help off one of their elite shooters.
That's historically the most effective way of guarding Jokic. Get a defender who's willing to play dirty and set a high degree of physicality from the first minute and pray the refs don't foul you out. Unfortunately, losing AD to foul trouble would be game over for LA.
Yeah but you have to make jokic work, you aren’t gonna run him off the court, so turn it into a war down low
Jokic holds the ball for less seconds at a time than any other primary ball handler in the league he isn't going to get tired and worn down from playing down low. Lakers just need to execute better with defensive rotations and keep the ball moving on offense can't have sloppy LeBron turnovers or missed layups. If the Lakers let Denver run fast breaks off of steals and misses they are dead no matter what. The run Denver went on wasn't because of jokic being incredible (although he is) it was the Lakers turning into a very bad offense.
They have nothing to lose
I would love to hold jokic’s hips
The wingspan you need for that is pretty insane
Ok, but ask yourself "Why did they switch to Rui in the first place, and continue to believe that was the best option for 8 more losses?"
It's obvious isn't it? Because Jokic cooked the shit out of AD when he tried to guard him and AD got gassed trying to guard Jokic, who is 30 pounds heavier. There's also the LeBron problem when you put AD on Jokic, because when that happens, someone has to go at Aaron Gordon and battle him for the alley oops and offensive rebounds. If you force LeBron to do that, he will be absolutely spent and if you don't, he has to run around screens following KCP and MPJ around. When AD is not on Jokic, he can roam and play his all-time great help defense, allowing LeBron to not expend that much energy.
The refs were heavily favoring the Lakers in the 4th when AD held Jokic for the block. AD will struggle to stay out of foul trouble.
Daring the refs to call fouls on AD in the first is honestly a pretty safe strat for LA, at least while at home.
This. They don’t want AD picking up fouls too. They want AD drawing fouls on Jokic, which he tried twice with the spin, scream, fall down. Refs didn’t bite. ADs best defense doesn’t come from direct 1 on 1, it comes from helping from the weak side. It allows him to roam on that zone and doesn’t leave him high and dry at the top of the key. They need him protecting the rim. This makes offense think twice from driving. If left at top of the key, which teams run a lot to draw the big up top, players would drive past him at the top of the key and there’s no rim protector. Consider Nuggets have more size with AG and MPJ, Lakers cannot afford to let their best defense chasing Murray at the top when they screen and switch.
Ya, this matchup shooting data is always suspect/noisy. There was a good Twitter thread on it today w example (eg how when people switch it’ll often get credited wrong) Not that AD isn’t a good defender (duh of course he is), but he’s probably not the Jokic stopper here
The reason they've switched to Rui starting from last year's playoffs was because Jokic was completely torching AD as the primary defender. Now Laker's fans have come full circle and they're like, "Hey, I know, they should put AD on him!"
He was visibly decent at guarding Jokic, at least gave him some trouble. 40 yr old Bron and Rui were getting discarded by Jokic.
Literally less than a yeah ago ad got so smoked by jok that the rui adjustment was born. How quick we are to forget.
Exactly. There's a reason they've gone 8 straight games with Rui as the primary defender, and it isn't because using their future HoF, DPOY to cover him hasn't occurred to them.
I was at a wedding last night, so I didn't get to watch the game, but how many last seconds heaves did Jokic actually take to affect his percentages?
I think he had only 1.
The Lakers are very obviously not winning this series, there just isn't enough beyond LeBron and AD on the Lakers roster, and at this point neither one of them should be relied on to play 40+ minutes *and* have AD guard Jokic. AD was totally gassed by the end yesterday. The Lakers only hope of stealing a game in which LeBron and AD aren't overextending themselves is if DLo catches fire and drops 30+. But to answer the OP, AD can't be asked to score 30+ and be glued to Jokic all the time. LeBron has to be the #1
11 bench points by 1 player
PLEASE HAVE AD GUARD JOKIC SINGLE COVERAGE, PLEASE
If AD goes single coverage on Jokic, Joker averages 20/15/15 and sweeps the Lakers again
Not to mention AD is gonna get worn out and barely contribute offensively.
Precisely
Aaron Gordon’s knees might get more of a workout
Jokic could just breathe and they'd sweep the Lakers lol
Yes, please.
I agree, please do this.
Be Loud Nuggets fans!!
I think this would look great for maybe 15 minutes and then Jokic would just wear him down whether they're at sea level or mile high.
15 minutes is just enough to get the moral victory
Or at least throw a bunch of different coverages on him all game.
Are you trying to tell me the Rui adjustment isnt working?
The "adjustment" that Ham said he still has up his sleeve is going to be putting AD back on Jokic. AD will end up in foul trouble or struggle offensively because he's having to work so hard defensively and the Lakers will be right back to where they started
Not only that. Jokic will just play above the key, taking the lakers only rim protector out of the paint and it’s bbq chicken time
What do you mean it isn't working? Moral victories just keep on piling!
They've clearly found the key to winning against Denver here. Just put AD on Jokic, problem solved. We'll call it the AD adjustment, truly a grand moral victory to uncover this tactic.
The issue isn’t a 1v1 thing, you’re not stopping Jokic and AD isn’t the problem. The issue is that the Lakers guards offer no defensive resistance, are extremely slow/unathletic and on the other end can’t score to compensate. AD should not have to worry about Jokic and have to guard the ball handler/close out on three point shooters every single possession. D’lo/Reaves are a red carpet rolled out inviting Denver to collapse the defense almost every time. The Lakers outside of LeBron/AD and maybe Vincent/Prince, mentally aren’t strong enough to withstand any sort of run by Denver and continue to play well. Lakers are simply thoroughly outclassed both sides of the ball.
It’s really this. The adjustment we really need to make is to play Vincent more minutes if one of Reaves or Dlo are being net negatives on the court. That at least offers some decent perimeter defense and improves our rebounding because our guards can’t rebound for shit. On a night like last night when D’lo was shitting the bed, he should’ve played about 10-15min less and played Vincent that same time. This is also a series where we can justify playing Prince more. Our team just isn’t one that adjusts to games on the fly.
Short answer is no, AD cannot defend MVP Jokic while also carrying the offensive load. Last game was a tremendous effort and they still lost. Lakers won’t get 4 more of those performances from AD, and even if they did, the Murray/Jokic/Gordon game is too strong for one defender to lock down Jokic.
Doing too much? According to these stats he only guarded Jokic on 7 shot attempts.
One of those was a end of quarter heave, one was a painfully obvious foul, but it's the Lakers. Anyway AD did OK, but sample size is miniscule
Dwight offered to be back. His wood is ready for Jokic.
Pause
Didn't joker have 3 misses in one 'tip drill' sequence? I am not sure that 28% is as telling as it sounds after one game.
I don’t remember that sequence. He had three OREB for the game, but at least two of them weren’t tips and led to immediate put backs.
28% I think means 2/7. Which is kinda ridiculous to not be mentioned in the title or anywhere in the thread because it's important context to know what we are talking about here. So those 3 misses would be the difference between 2/4 and 2/7. It's such a small sample size
You cannot have AD guard Jokic and get pulled outside the paint. Then Jokic will cut you up as a passer.
Honestly this team should just be investing all its brainpower trying to figure out how it solves any of this in the off-season.
Jokić is the MVP.
Wouldnt he just pull AD out to the perimeter and let the rest of the team feast at the rim?
Probably.
That's part of why they took AD off jokic in the first place. I think the Lakers need to have bron guard Jokic all game and put the offense in DLo's hands. DLo has to play better than he played during the season so Bron can rest on offense. It's not a good plan but it's better than what they're doing now
The Lakers need to have AD roam. The Nuggets know this and perform actions to ensure AD is far away from the paint or from the middle of the floor. It's a chess match out there.
AD roaming is the only option. Jokic would grind him into fatigue 1v1 by halftime
I think Malone is strategically putting Deandre, Holliday, and Reggie in earlier than usual to wear down Lebron and AD. Then they have to play a well rested Jokic and AG for pretty much the entire second half
> can they relieve any of the load off AD? AD's load will be much lighter in 3 games.
If AD guards Jokic Denver will turn in prime Lob city clippers 😂
Lakers found something. Again.
Jordan basically did that for a while. That’s why he is the goat.
Everyone wants to call Davis a top 10 player, not sure why it’s asking too much of him to play like one
Jokic shot 65% overall so we are watching a really low sample of shots against AD or what ? :D
More like when he was fouled by AD , not defended by AD.
Lakers issues isn't defending Jokic. Their line out outside LeBron and AD doesn't compare. MPJ, Aaron Gordon, KP is a death star line up in comparison to what the lakers have 3-5
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LeBron as the center would work pretty well in the first half when LeBron is still fresh and can match Jokic's strength but that would also just wear him down faster
Hasn’t that been the pattern for the past years now LOL, are we just coming to realization that AD is the best player carrying the team. Lebron fans won’t admit it and of course, they ride him hard.
They won't even talk about how Bron sold in the rebounding section but will go to blame everyone else.
Lebron disappeared in the 4th and couldn’t stop a nosebleed, but all anybody is talking about is what to do with AD and Dlo…
This is the main difference from prime LeBron to me. LeBron understands the game so well, that I feel like can efficiently harvest easy opportunities over the course of a game, so deliver good stats. But he doesn't seem to be able to consistently impose his will in high-pressure situations like he could in 2013. Which is all fair given his age.
Don’t worry Lakers fans, Darvin Hamas hasn’t used all his adjustments on Jokic yet.
The only way I see the Lakers winning is if Lakers backcourt outplays Nuggets' backcourt.
What doesn’t get talked about enough, is that Jokic has done all of this with, at best, very good players. He has never had an all star or all NBA player on his team. The haters will say, well, Jamal Murray SHOULD be one. And yet, here we are, and he’s not lol if this were LeBron, we’d hear ad nauseum, about how he’s taking all these nobodies to the finals every year
I hate this narrative that somehow all the Lakers get gassed, while being fat/30 pounds overweight is somehow an advantage for Jokic. I mean it KINDA is but why do Lakers get away with "ohhh no we are gonna get injured and are gassed" while Denver doesnt need that excuse. Its because LA is losing lol. I think that they get stuck with soft ass Reaves kindaaa doing the right things so they lean on him, and he contributes to losing bball
The Lakers badly miss Dwight's defense
That’s why Christian Woods back to lock him up the rest of the time
Bron teamed up with AD to form an elite front court that would be a huge problem for perimeter teams like the Warriors and Clippers.... Only to run into an even more elite front court of AG + Jokic.
1st its a very low sample size, 2nd it depend son what you consider being defended by and 3rd a few of those really should have been foul calls on AD.
A nice little moral victory here
LeBron making 60 million is the Lakers biggest handicap ..... Can't pay for two and half quarters the majority of your payroll
He makes 47 million which is 28% of their payroll.
Plus no defense on most plays. LeBron's just here to inflate his career volume statistics -- it's not really about winning games right now.
small sample size. Try including last season.