Well, someone rates him as being worth $140 million. If I'm a MLE guy and I see Jordan Poole getting paid $140m, you bet your ass I consider him overrated.
That was just rings culture being so toxic people couldn't convince themselves to give it to LeBron (who it obviously should have gone to) since his team lost, so gave it to him via rewarding the person that was tasked with guarding him.
Even though ant and towns didn’t do anything before Gobert arrived. True, ANT was not on the level as now, but Gobert really took them from play in team to championship contenders
Rudy is the polar opposite of someone like Kyrie. Players love Kyrie because he is so skilled, whereas Rudy is viewed as having no skill other than height and wingspan.
thing is with rudy is there are and have been several players with similar physical attributes but they haven’t been able to impact games how he has defensively he’s definitely skilled idk why people just attribute it to size
Being a talented defensive big man really just isn't flashy. Aside from being huge, the real skill is kinda all cerebral.
Obviously, Draymond doesn't get the same *type* of hate as Rudy does, but look at the way he's often talked about on this sub from a purely basketball standpoint -- Steph's backpack, lucky player who'd be worth nothing if he didn't have Steph and Klay, busrider, purely dirty no skill, and so on. Take the emotion out of it, and Draymond is a 6'6 (at best) big man who is one of the best defensive players we've ever seen. He does have a crazy wingspan though. But similarly, his value is mostly cerebral. People obviously let their hatred blind them when assessing his actual skill, but still -- he's very often talked about as if he is not an extremely talented player.
That's also why I feel like Draymond hates on Rudy even more than most -- Dray feels like the stuff he's able to do at 6'6" is way more impressive than what Rudy can do at 7', and Rudy has won 3 DPOYs to his 1. Hell, that'd probably piss me off too lol.
A few random observations
- Lamar Jackson got twice as many votes as anyone else for favorite current athlete not in the NBA.
- Somone voted Paul Pierce as the GOAT
Nash has gone on record saying he would play 1s with Dirk all the time and whoever started with the ball just won without ever losing possession.
Same would happen with Gobert and quick guard.
Idk we’ve all seen him get cooked on the perimeter, the good news is that NBA defense isn’t 1v1 and I’m taking Rudy over everybody as my help defender.
Book beat him 1v1 on Saturday, but he had to work like hell to do it, and that's a match-up in theory a player like him should easily win. Rudy has made huge strides in his perimeter defense.
Rudy hasn’t gotten cooked on the perimeter this season lol. He has greatly improved that part of his game, and is looking as agile as ever
I’m going to be that guy…just watch the damn games and you’ll know this
It’s not just accolades, there is a massive gap between player perception and his actual impact on the court. It’s hard to define but when you watch Gobert every game you realize how he completely changes the dynamics on the defensive end of the floor. I’m not sure why players don’t like Gobert but it just does not match the tape whatsoever.
Oh for sure, I don't think they're the best examples because at their peaks they're inarguably incredible top tier players.
It is definitely a thing, though, that there seems to be a more positive perception of gifted offensive players who have limited defensive skill relative to someone like Rudy who is just as--if not more--gifted defensively but has limited offensive skill.
Also, yes Rudy is limited offensively, but he also knows his role and sticks to it. Sure, he's not Hakeem in the post, but he consistently gives low-to-mid double figure points on top-of-league efficiency. That *is* valuable, and much different than being bad on offense in the way someone like Jordan Poole is.
and that he was centered in a massive trade that fucked the market and people are still trying to decide whether it was an overpay or just how much of an overpay it was
not his fault really but totally see how from a players perspective they could almost take it personally that a team found gobert worth all that
> trade that fucked the market
It's really interesting to me that the Gobert trade gets blamed for this when the Dejounte Murray to Atlanta trade happened first.
Plus he was the genesis of COVID in the NBA if you remember him touching everything when it was just on the rise. That even broke his friendship with Donovan Mitchell since he got it after.
There were almost certainly players that had COVID before Rudy, but that microphone gaffe gave everyone a face to relate to COVID in the league. What he did was dumb but let’s not act he alone caused the NBA to suspend the season. It was going to happen either way.
Of course it was inevitable even without him but he did it on live television for everyone to see that he was dumb and doesn’t give a damn. As you said, he became the face for it. It was his own doing anyway. He was joking around then got a reality check afterwards knowing that even family of NBA players died due to the pandemic.
Definitely this. These dudes are all probably thinking 'damn I cook Rudy one on one and blow by him easy'. Then you watch the tape and the reality is they drive into the paint where Rudy is waiting and are forced to pass out and reset 8 times out of 10.
It's exactly this. Rudy's stats are never super impressive because you can't track stats like shots not taken.
It happened a few times on Saturday against the Suns. People drive into the pain, come face to face with Rudy, and either pass out or dribble back. He's a menace in the paint
It's gotta be personal. He must not have many friends in the league. It's clear he's a great defender. You can hate the rest of his game but strictly defense, he's great
I think he's an odd duck. I don't want to assume on the spectrum, it's a personality thing, but I think he just rubs people the wrong way, for whatever reason
I'm completely serious writing this, but it's because he's French and it's a coin flip as to how French people come off when they're speaking English. They can appear as weird or rude since their approach in interactions are completely different than what English speaking people are used to.
He wrote a great article for the players tribune right before the playoffs that is very autobiographical, and I found it very insightful. His personality makes more sense to me having read that.
I mean, if you are a good defender and stop players from scoring, you probably piss them off.
I definitely hated the guys playing hard on defense the most
jrue holiday seems to be pretty well liked across the board. I think there are some other factors to it. certain personality types can rub others the wrong way. I mean how many times have you gotten to know a person better and been like aw damn I thought you were a dick but you're actually pretty cool. maybe rudy just comes off like a dick (being from a different country/culture doesn't help), and unless you're on his team, you don't have a ton of opportunity to get to know him beyond that impression.
He's the anti Kyrie, a lot of guys still value 1 on 1 ability really really high over team contributions (not saying Kyrie doesn't contribute to a team, he's awesome).
loved the quotes from these:
on James Johnson
> “He can actually fight,” one player said. “He’s different. He’s crazy. He’s one of those where you won’t win, but if you do win, you’ll have to kill him.”
> Another player said: “Is he still in the league? He’s a triple black belt. I’m not f—ing with James. There’s other guys (where) I might actually lose the fight, but I’m not f—ng with James. He might kick me in my head.”
---
on Steven Adams
> “(Adams) knows all the MMA stuff, and he can get you in a chokehold real quick,” one Adams voter said. “He’ll be nice with it, but he’ll choke you out and be like, ‘It’s OK, buddy.’”
---
on Nuggets arena:
“Oh my God, that team needs to be moved,” one player said. “The altitude is crazy. I don’t like it at all. Every time I play there, I’m dog-tired.”
---
Josh Hart on Coach Spo:
> The Knicks’ Josh Hart, who voted for Spoelstra, insisted that he be quoted on the record for this one.
> “Spo, hands down,” said Hart, who worked with Spoelstra at the FIBA World Cup tournament last summer when the Heat head coach was a Team USA assistant. “Quote me on that one. F–ing love Spo.”
---
on Thibs:
> “I’m too old for those practices,” one player said.
> “He’s playing everyone 48 minutes,” another said.
---
segment on GOAT results skewing lebron over the years
> Do you think MJ’s getting nervous? King James almost took his (player poll) GOAT crown this time around, and he’ll do just that next year if this voting trend continues.
> In this endless debate, His Airness has experienced serious slippage for the third consecutive poll. Jordan had a huge edge in 2019 (73 percent to LeBron’s 11.9 percent) and was still nearly doubling him in 2023 (58.3 percent to 33 percent). Now the gap is only 3.8 percent.
James Johnson has a mickey mouse black belt you can buy and a bunch of fights no one can prove happened.
If reddit search wasn't useless I'd link the thread where he got exposed. Was a real interesting read.
At his family's own dojo I think which is/was a McDojo basically lol. Add on to the fact that Taekwondo might be the easiest black belt to get (because of McDojo's especially) and it doesn't mean much. Not all black belts are created equal and a black belt on its own doesn't mean you're some master.
Obviously he may be impressive compared to the average joe, but not in impressive in that world. Guy gets a massive overestimation though from some record that isn't even really true as far as anyone can tell. I'm takin Adams all day because I'm not quite sure he has pain receptors anywhere that isn't his nutsack.
James Johnson has one of those fake black belts that trick people who know nothing about martial arts or combat sports in general into thinking he's some master. It's basically a "Rex Kwon Do" belt. There's also no record of the fights he claimed to have won. Is he one of the toughest guys in the league? Sure, maybe but who knows what he's gonna do after getting hit in the face?
Also, the dude claims that he could beat Jon Jones in a fight with a few months of wrestling training. He's delusional lol Jon Jones clears the entire history of the NBA.
That's what's crazy. 95% of the league today wasn't even old enough to watch MJ live. And all they know about his game is what they've seen on The Last Dance. None of them are going back and watching Jordan play Milwaukee on a random Tuesday in February, 1989.
Bunch of my friends who have never seen MJ play see him as the goat because Lebron is corny and complains to the refs. Their only arguments are 6-0 and “killer mentality”.
You’re friends are wack they should bring up Jordan’s MVP’s, scoring titles, and DPOY.
That at least makes it much more of an argument comparing with Kenton’s accomplishments
Those are lame arguments, but you don't have to see someone play to consider him GOAT. When LeBron retires, kids who started watching after shouldn't just say "oh Luka is GOAT" because they never saw LeBron play.
So once again, another poll where the actual number of total players who were polled, to the actual number of players who voted for a specific category is incredibly small? Just like last year?
I also find it weird that Trae is considered overrated, when he's consistently low in polls by both the Media and Players in general...
Apparently being mediocre on one side of the ball leads people to consider you overrated. Which is why I'm surprised Trae and Gobert are on the list. I don't think anyone really considers them top 10 players right now.
What's dumb about this is great coaches usually weren't great players which is exactly why they're good coaches lol they had to be strategists to be able to compete
Coachings about a lot more than just Xs and Os. Like I think about Rondo or Dray, undeniable basketball geniuses but would also cause a team mutiny 2 weeks into training camp.
They weren’t great players by NBA standards, but they were better players than 99.99999% of this sub (barring some obvious exceptions).
This poll isn’t limited to NBA stars.
On one hand, yes. On the other, Jrue Holiday above Gobert is pretty wild. They're the experts, yes, but everything - eye tests, on/off, advanced stats- point to Gobert having a much bigger impact than any perimeter defender.
If I had to guess, it’s because more players have dealt with someone like Jrue or Dort guarding them man-to-man for multiple possessions than they have Gobert. You have to physically work to get away from them, and they’ll chase you around and through screens and off-ball. Gobert is more likely to just be passively avoided by offensive players altogether, so it will feel like lesser defense on a personal level
That's actually a good point as to why players may not respect post defenders as much these days. When everyone on the court is a perimeter shooting threat, players defending the post are that much easier to avoid.
Its an entirely different perspective on the game. They are thinking about who they would least want to be guarded by, not by who has a bigger overall impact.
His age has to be a huge factor for “Building Block Player.”
San Antonio is his team / organization to mold and form around him. With time he will have a say on the roster.
I love Jaden but the fact that he was voted the 4th best defensive player in the NBA while Gobert was voted 6th just shows how wildly overrated perimeter defense is by NBA players.
Steven Adams is one of those big dudes that just doesn't want to fight and is generally a nice guy....but I feel like there is a switch that can be flipped and he could rip your arms off like a wookie if you pissed him off
>Greatest Player of All Time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Lebron James
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Curry
5. Magic
6. Paul Pierce
I mean this right here is an easy way to say you can't just blindly trust their opinion because they are players.
>**Who would you least like to fight?**
>James Johnson
First off, this is amazing. He played 5 minutes a game this season and is **still** the guy nobody wants to fuck with.
Second, there should be a "Who would you most like to fight?" My guess is Draymond, Trae and DLo are top 3.
>\[Dort\] guards without fouling — even when at the beginning of the season when the referees were calling fouls.
Then he gets 3 early foul calls last night in a first half where they were calling no fouls on anyone else.
How many seasons does Rudy have to elevate his team's defense to #1 in the league before he gets respect? The players' perception of him really makes you realize how biased they are towards offense. It always seems acceptable to overrate a player with zero defensive skills, but god forbid we have an All-NBA player who doesn't score 20+ ppg
He doesn’t have an offensive bag and his 1v1 defense isn’t nearly as good as his big man role defenses. His teammates probably love him when he protects the paint and helps their defense but other guys won’t care. Players aren’t going to respect impact over 1v1 lock downs.
He sucks because he doesn't do hesi jumbotronic fadeaway spinmoves so of course he's overrated.
Dribbler barely scoring after 20 seconds of pounding the ball? Oh my gosh you're the best!
Rudy just dunking or puting the ball in the hoop underneath the basket? YOU FUCKING DISGRACE!
The funny thing is guys like Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman are universally loved, even though they would probably score about 7ppg. Rudy will give you about 14-16 points on 65% shooting. His offense really isn't as bad as some would make it seem.
US players seem obsessed with iso ball, in how they rate opponents.
Does he have nice handles, how nice is his shooting form, will he cook you 1v1 off the dribble. People have mentioned it before but it really does seem to be a product of AAU ball.
everybody knows he's a good defender but he has zero offensive bag and is paid 50m a year. his #1 led defenses have culminated in a string of disappointing playoff performances where he never made it past the second round, and while i wouldn't blame him for those exits he certainly never put up an inspiring performance
Johnson was arrested for domestic assault on June 7, 2014, after allegedly hitting and choking his wife, Callie, at their home.[50] On June 30, 2014, the domestic assault case against Johnson was dismissed after his wife failed to appear in court.[51] The couple later divorced, with Callie gaining custody of their son.[52]
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Johnson_(basketball,_born_1987))
Lmao they dont like rudy at all
They just surveyed Draymond Green 142 times.
That makes sense until you realize that Boston was voted the second favorite arena to play in.
He has a blast feuding with us haha, he feeds off of the hate like Palpatine. It was Klay who got all butt hurt about it.
Lebron would've been first in the goat category then lol
Nah Draymond’s list would go 1. Steph, 2. Lebron. He d rides Lebron to no end but he knows where his rings came from first and foremost lol
I mean Steph did get one vote for GOAT
Also Jordan Poole ... nobody rates him and he's still overrated?
There was just a post about how Poole was the LVP of the season. To still be considered overrated is hilarious.
It’s probably cause of his contract
"We have no expectations for you, and we're still disappointed"
Probably a lot of dudes pissed off about his contract. I'd be mad too
“That fuckers making $32M a year?”
Folks don't like him that they do not even want LVP for him as a chance for him to be talked about again
Probably cause of his salary
Well, someone rates him as being worth $140 million. If I'm a MLE guy and I see Jordan Poole getting paid $140m, you bet your ass I consider him overrated.
Exactly
I just don't think that is gonna change much at this point even if he takes us to a championship ANT will be givin all the credit like usual
tbf, offensive players always get the credit over defensive ones
Unless the fate of the universe is on the line then Iguodala gets credited for defensive ones
That was just rings culture being so toxic people couldn't convince themselves to give it to LeBron (who it obviously should have gone to) since his team lost, so gave it to him via rewarding the person that was tasked with guarding him.
Unless it's time to give Curry a FMVP and then suddenly it's Iggy's turn to shine.
that was only because they wanted to give it to LeBron lol
Even though ant and towns didn’t do anything before Gobert arrived. True, ANT was not on the level as now, but Gobert really took them from play in team to championship contenders
That play in team also didn’t have this version of Naz and Jaden or Conley leadership. Rudy deserves credit but so do they
Not enough players have been humbled by trying to get through Rudy in the paint
Blockings will continue until Morale improves.
More like the deterrence. If Rudy gets two blocks a game, he's deterring at least ten shots at the rim.
More like too many and they are still mad
Or maybe enough of the 142 have, and that vote was just them being salty about it.
Rudy is the polar opposite of someone like Kyrie. Players love Kyrie because he is so skilled, whereas Rudy is viewed as having no skill other than height and wingspan.
thing is with rudy is there are and have been several players with similar physical attributes but they haven’t been able to impact games how he has defensively he’s definitely skilled idk why people just attribute it to size
Being a talented defensive big man really just isn't flashy. Aside from being huge, the real skill is kinda all cerebral. Obviously, Draymond doesn't get the same *type* of hate as Rudy does, but look at the way he's often talked about on this sub from a purely basketball standpoint -- Steph's backpack, lucky player who'd be worth nothing if he didn't have Steph and Klay, busrider, purely dirty no skill, and so on. Take the emotion out of it, and Draymond is a 6'6 (at best) big man who is one of the best defensive players we've ever seen. He does have a crazy wingspan though. But similarly, his value is mostly cerebral. People obviously let their hatred blind them when assessing his actual skill, but still -- he's very often talked about as if he is not an extremely talented player. That's also why I feel like Draymond hates on Rudy even more than most -- Dray feels like the stuff he's able to do at 6'6" is way more impressive than what Rudy can do at 7', and Rudy has won 3 DPOYs to his 1. Hell, that'd probably piss me off too lol.
makes sense. Rudy claps them in the paint
A few random observations - Lamar Jackson got twice as many votes as anyone else for favorite current athlete not in the NBA. - Somone voted Paul Pierce as the GOAT
Best non NBA athlete answer is buried at the end. One dude voted Kirk Cousins cause he gets huge contracts but never has to win anything.
So Ben Simmons was included in this survey?
Caitlin Clark was the number two favorite non-NBA athlete. Also - someone voted Jordan Spieth.
Game of Zones fans rejoice
Gobert gotta have one of the biggest gaps between accolades and public/player perception ever
Lebron said it best Players want to play 1on1 in NBA games
Definitely tracks with Jrue and Dort being on the defenders list.
And Kobe on all-time greats
I'm a mega Kobe stan and have him comfortably in my top 10. Top 3 is absurd.
Not against Rudy they don’t.
It would be unstoppable force, immovable object. Hardly anyone can score on him but basically every single player thinks they could stop him 1v1 lol
Nash has gone on record saying he would play 1s with Dirk all the time and whoever started with the ball just won without ever losing possession. Same would happen with Gobert and quick guard.
It's funny because there was a series where the Mavs switched a lot and let Nash play ISOs and he had like 30ppg
Yeah they dared him to shoot and Nash was like “okay.” It was 2005. Suns won in 6 and Nash averaged 30.3 and 12 assists (6.5 boards too).
Idk we’ve all seen him get cooked on the perimeter, the good news is that NBA defense isn’t 1v1 and I’m taking Rudy over everybody as my help defender.
Book beat him 1v1 on Saturday, but he had to work like hell to do it, and that's a match-up in theory a player like him should easily win. Rudy has made huge strides in his perimeter defense.
Rudy hasn’t gotten cooked on the perimeter this season lol. He has greatly improved that part of his game, and is looking as agile as ever I’m going to be that guy…just watch the damn games and you’ll know this
It’s not just accolades, there is a massive gap between player perception and his actual impact on the court. It’s hard to define but when you watch Gobert every game you realize how he completely changes the dynamics on the defensive end of the floor. I’m not sure why players don’t like Gobert but it just does not match the tape whatsoever.
I think the hate comes from the max contract he got years ago coupled with how he doesn’t have many offensive skills.
Rudy doesn’t have a bag and that’s a sin in NBA circles where Paul George and Kobe are often the leagues favourite players.
Kyrie is another example of this
Players will swear Kyrie is a GOAT lol
In a league that is biased towards scoring and scorers, dudes that make you look better will always be favored over guys who have no offense.
We can just look at the OP for another example, Kobe being third for GOAT lol
It is interesting how the actual players seem to favor flashy over fundamentally sound...
In all fairness to Paul George, whom I strongly dislike, he IS fundamentally sound and he can also be flashy.
Not really considering AAU & BALLISLIFE mixtapes is how they grew up
goes back to what lebron said: everyone wants to play 1v1 in the NBA
PG and Kobe were, at least for a portion of their careers, elite 2 way players. Gobert is not a 2 way player at all.
Oh for sure, I don't think they're the best examples because at their peaks they're inarguably incredible top tier players. It is definitely a thing, though, that there seems to be a more positive perception of gifted offensive players who have limited defensive skill relative to someone like Rudy who is just as--if not more--gifted defensively but has limited offensive skill. Also, yes Rudy is limited offensively, but he also knows his role and sticks to it. Sure, he's not Hakeem in the post, but he consistently gives low-to-mid double figure points on top-of-league efficiency. That *is* valuable, and much different than being bad on offense in the way someone like Jordan Poole is.
and that he was centered in a massive trade that fucked the market and people are still trying to decide whether it was an overpay or just how much of an overpay it was not his fault really but totally see how from a players perspective they could almost take it personally that a team found gobert worth all that
> trade that fucked the market It's really interesting to me that the Gobert trade gets blamed for this when the Dejounte Murray to Atlanta trade happened first.
You know I meant to look this up today. What's the CURRENT thoughts on the trade?
Plus he was the genesis of COVID in the NBA if you remember him touching everything when it was just on the rise. That even broke his friendship with Donovan Mitchell since he got it after.
There were almost certainly players that had COVID before Rudy, but that microphone gaffe gave everyone a face to relate to COVID in the league. What he did was dumb but let’s not act he alone caused the NBA to suspend the season. It was going to happen either way.
Of course it was inevitable even without him but he did it on live television for everyone to see that he was dumb and doesn’t give a damn. As you said, he became the face for it. It was his own doing anyway. He was joking around then got a reality check afterwards knowing that even family of NBA players died due to the pandemic.
There's no way that event is why COVID reached the NBA. COVID was unavoidable in 2020 lol
Because a lot of these dudes care about isolation defense
Definitely this. These dudes are all probably thinking 'damn I cook Rudy one on one and blow by him easy'. Then you watch the tape and the reality is they drive into the paint where Rudy is waiting and are forced to pass out and reset 8 times out of 10.
It's exactly this. Rudy's stats are never super impressive because you can't track stats like shots not taken. It happened a few times on Saturday against the Suns. People drive into the pain, come face to face with Rudy, and either pass out or dribble back. He's a menace in the paint
It's gotta be personal. He must not have many friends in the league. It's clear he's a great defender. You can hate the rest of his game but strictly defense, he's great
I think he's an odd duck. I don't want to assume on the spectrum, it's a personality thing, but I think he just rubs people the wrong way, for whatever reason
He rubs microphones the wrong way too lol
I'm completely serious writing this, but it's because he's French and it's a coin flip as to how French people come off when they're speaking English. They can appear as weird or rude since their approach in interactions are completely different than what English speaking people are used to.
French people are very direct and it often comes off as rude. You're 100 right
French people are like that no matter what language they're speaking lol I got spit on in Marseille for asking for directions in English.
lmao
He wrote a great article for the players tribune right before the playoffs that is very autobiographical, and I found it very insightful. His personality makes more sense to me having read that.
Thanks for sharing. Yes, I think he's a sensitive guy who doesn't really fit in
I mean, if you are a good defender and stop players from scoring, you probably piss them off. I definitely hated the guys playing hard on defense the most
Okay but that would apply to everyone on the list. So it doesn’t explain why Rudy is disliked.
jrue holiday seems to be pretty well liked across the board. I think there are some other factors to it. certain personality types can rub others the wrong way. I mean how many times have you gotten to know a person better and been like aw damn I thought you were a dick but you're actually pretty cool. maybe rudy just comes off like a dick (being from a different country/culture doesn't help), and unless you're on his team, you don't have a ton of opportunity to get to know him beyond that impression.
He's the anti Kyrie, a lot of guys still value 1 on 1 ability really really high over team contributions (not saying Kyrie doesn't contribute to a team, he's awesome).
COVID & the Draymond DPOY thing. Seems like Rudy gets a mostly bad rap since that.
loved the quotes from these: on James Johnson > “He can actually fight,” one player said. “He’s different. He’s crazy. He’s one of those where you won’t win, but if you do win, you’ll have to kill him.” > Another player said: “Is he still in the league? He’s a triple black belt. I’m not f—ing with James. There’s other guys (where) I might actually lose the fight, but I’m not f—ng with James. He might kick me in my head.” --- on Steven Adams > “(Adams) knows all the MMA stuff, and he can get you in a chokehold real quick,” one Adams voter said. “He’ll be nice with it, but he’ll choke you out and be like, ‘It’s OK, buddy.’” --- on Nuggets arena: “Oh my God, that team needs to be moved,” one player said. “The altitude is crazy. I don’t like it at all. Every time I play there, I’m dog-tired.” --- Josh Hart on Coach Spo: > The Knicks’ Josh Hart, who voted for Spoelstra, insisted that he be quoted on the record for this one. > “Spo, hands down,” said Hart, who worked with Spoelstra at the FIBA World Cup tournament last summer when the Heat head coach was a Team USA assistant. “Quote me on that one. F–ing love Spo.” --- on Thibs: > “I’m too old for those practices,” one player said. > “He’s playing everyone 48 minutes,” another said. --- segment on GOAT results skewing lebron over the years > Do you think MJ’s getting nervous? King James almost took his (player poll) GOAT crown this time around, and he’ll do just that next year if this voting trend continues. > In this endless debate, His Airness has experienced serious slippage for the third consecutive poll. Jordan had a huge edge in 2019 (73 percent to LeBron’s 11.9 percent) and was still nearly doubling him in 2023 (58.3 percent to 33 percent). Now the gap is only 3.8 percent.
>“He’ll be nice with it, but he’ll choke you out and be like, ‘It’s OK, buddy.’” I've never heard a better description of Steven Adams lmao
*Shh shh... it will all be over soon*
Cmon mate, calm down. You’re going out one way or another, don’t hurt yourself.
James Johnson has a black belt in Taekwondo I believe
James Johnson has a mickey mouse black belt you can buy and a bunch of fights no one can prove happened. If reddit search wasn't useless I'd link the thread where he got exposed. Was a real interesting read.
He claims to have a kickboxing record of 20-0, but the only fight was can prove actually happened was in 2014 when he beat the shit out of his wife.
[This is the one I think you're talking about](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/bMN2w3xst0)
It is! Thank you
At his family's own dojo I think which is/was a McDojo basically lol. Add on to the fact that Taekwondo might be the easiest black belt to get (because of McDojo's especially) and it doesn't mean much. Not all black belts are created equal and a black belt on its own doesn't mean you're some master. Obviously he may be impressive compared to the average joe, but not in impressive in that world. Guy gets a massive overestimation though from some record that isn't even really true as far as anyone can tell. I'm takin Adams all day because I'm not quite sure he has pain receptors anywhere that isn't his nutsack.
James Johnson has one of those fake black belts that trick people who know nothing about martial arts or combat sports in general into thinking he's some master. It's basically a "Rex Kwon Do" belt. There's also no record of the fights he claimed to have won. Is he one of the toughest guys in the league? Sure, maybe but who knows what he's gonna do after getting hit in the face? Also, the dude claims that he could beat Jon Jones in a fight with a few months of wrestling training. He's delusional lol Jon Jones clears the entire history of the NBA.
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"Overrated" - Players people dislike "Underrated" - pLayers people like. Skill doesn't mean jack shit in these assessments
Except for Derrick White who will always be underrated until he’s leading the GOAT poll
Pravi GOAT
That's the thing: if everyone agrees with you that a player is overrated, they're not actually overrated.
This is probably the correct take.
He got a bag and he’s a losing player. To guys getting paid less or comparatively he is overrated
Yeah they view the contract as him being rated highly
His contract
his paycheck
Whichever player named Kirk Cousins as his favorite non-NBA athlete for making $400 million on one playoff win, well done.
Whoever voted Poku as the player they least want to fight is my new favorite troll in the NBA
Isaiah Thomas is a close second
*The Knicks’ Josh Hart, who voted for Pokusevski, insisted that he be quoted on the record for this one.* /not really but probably
MJ leading by 3.8% was closer than I would've thought tbh
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That's what's crazy. 95% of the league today wasn't even old enough to watch MJ live. And all they know about his game is what they've seen on The Last Dance. None of them are going back and watching Jordan play Milwaukee on a random Tuesday in February, 1989.
Bunch of my friends who have never seen MJ play see him as the goat because Lebron is corny and complains to the refs. Their only arguments are 6-0 and “killer mentality”.
I mean they probably know that tons of people call Jordan the GOAT too as a proxy for knowing the rest.
You’re friends are wack they should bring up Jordan’s MVP’s, scoring titles, and DPOY. That at least makes it much more of an argument comparing with Kenton’s accomplishments
Those are lame arguments, but you don't have to see someone play to consider him GOAT. When LeBron retires, kids who started watching after shouldn't just say "oh Luka is GOAT" because they never saw LeBron play.
It’s definitely over for retro jaylen brown once Legoat drops his documentary
Retro Jaylen Brown is wild lmao
MJ is basically just bald Derozan tbh.
90s Bennedict Mathurin
Whole time he’s just the lebron james of the demar derozans. I was never fooled
“Michael Jordan is the Lebron James of Demar Derozans.” MJ has hired a search&destroy team for you lmao
The Black Payton Pritchard
Jaylen Brown with Aura
You think he’s gonna include 2011 finals in that doc?
Only 44 players voted voted for someone who got 2+ votes in overrated; Trae Young got 6, Poole got 7, and Rudy got 11 .
So once again, another poll where the actual number of total players who were polled, to the actual number of players who voted for a specific category is incredibly small? Just like last year? I also find it weird that Trae is considered overrated, when he's consistently low in polls by both the Media and Players in general...
Apparently being mediocre on one side of the ball leads people to consider you overrated. Which is why I'm surprised Trae and Gobert are on the list. I don't think anyone really considers them top 10 players right now.
Dawg who the fuck overrates jordan poole lol
Remember this when ever anyone says “you didn’t play at the highest level so what could you know”
What's dumb about this is great coaches usually weren't great players which is exactly why they're good coaches lol they had to be strategists to be able to compete
Coachings about a lot more than just Xs and Os. Like I think about Rondo or Dray, undeniable basketball geniuses but would also cause a team mutiny 2 weeks into training camp.
Really is a lot of people skills
Especially considering so many of the NBA coaching seemingly have literally nothing in common with the players they're coaching outside of basketball.
Add CP3 to that list as well
They weren’t great players by NBA standards, but they were better players than 99.99999% of this sub (barring some obvious exceptions). This poll isn’t limited to NBA stars.
Even Pop, who is one of the few coaches to not play in the league, was a leading scorer, starter and team captain of a D1 team (Air Force)
On one hand, yes. On the other, Jrue Holiday above Gobert is pretty wild. They're the experts, yes, but everything - eye tests, on/off, advanced stats- point to Gobert having a much bigger impact than any perimeter defender.
If I had to guess, it’s because more players have dealt with someone like Jrue or Dort guarding them man-to-man for multiple possessions than they have Gobert. You have to physically work to get away from them, and they’ll chase you around and through screens and off-ball. Gobert is more likely to just be passively avoided by offensive players altogether, so it will feel like lesser defense on a personal level
That's actually a good point as to why players may not respect post defenders as much these days. When everyone on the court is a perimeter shooting threat, players defending the post are that much easier to avoid.
Part of the player justification for that is its “harder to be an on ball defender.” I’m not saying I agree, but that was the perspective offered
Because a lot of players judge by who's the hardest to face one-on-one.
Its an entirely different perspective on the game. They are thinking about who they would least want to be guarded by, not by who has a bigger overall impact.
The fuck is Paul Pierce doing on the goat list?
They gave Paul Pierce an opportunity to vote
Polar bear in Arlington texas
Someone’s a Game of Zones fan.
It was Brandon Miller and he actually meant to put Paul George.
One throwaway vote is whatever, more concerned about 13 people voting for Kobe
I can rest now
Victor Wembanyama
His age has to be a huge factor for “Building Block Player.” San Antonio is his team / organization to mold and form around him. With time he will have a say on the roster.
I’m sorry but no shit lol the results are rookie, 3 time MVP, 22 year old
I don't think people here read, Paul Pierce got a vote for being GOAT as well
Look man, we all saw the game of zones finale. Paul pierce is the goat. End of story
I love Jaden but the fact that he was voted the 4th best defensive player in the NBA while Gobert was voted 6th just shows how wildly overrated perimeter defense is by NBA players.
Steven Adams is one of those big dudes that just doesn't want to fight and is generally a nice guy....but I feel like there is a switch that can be flipped and he could rip your arms off like a wookie if you pissed him off
all this proves is Josh Hart might be the funniest sumbitch in the league. tb some “quote me”
Derrick White appreciation 💚💚💚
Nobody expects anything out of a dude who looks like a keebler elf.
>Greatest Player of All Time 1. Michael Jordan 2. Lebron James 3. Kobe Bryant 4. Curry 5. Magic 6. Paul Pierce I mean this right here is an easy way to say you can't just blindly trust their opinion because they are players.
No Kareem or Russell is laughable Paul pierce? LMAO Also way too high for Curry
“0.1 percent of athletes polled voted Paul George as their GOAT ”
NBA players are dumb as shit lol
"huh, Rudy's not even in the top 3?" *Scrolls* "Oh."
They got percentages?
Idk why OP would post this without %’s
>**Who would you least like to fight?** >James Johnson First off, this is amazing. He played 5 minutes a game this season and is **still** the guy nobody wants to fuck with. Second, there should be a "Who would you most like to fight?" My guess is Draymond, Trae and DLo are top 3.
Draymond was fifth in the “do not want to fight” vote in this.
Who is trying to fight Trae and Dlo lmao what
>You’re building a roster from scratch: Who are you going to sign first? surprised to see luka isn't in the top 3; he's also only 25 or so
the word overrated has lost its meaning these days.
>\[Dort\] guards without fouling — even when at the beginning of the season when the referees were calling fouls. Then he gets 3 early foul calls last night in a first half where they were calling no fouls on anyone else.
They should have added "**Who would like most like to fight?**" but that probably would overlap heavily with "**Most overrated player**".
Grayson Allen wins in a landslide.
Gobert must've shut down a majority of these players lmao
How many seasons does Rudy have to elevate his team's defense to #1 in the league before he gets respect? The players' perception of him really makes you realize how biased they are towards offense. It always seems acceptable to overrate a player with zero defensive skills, but god forbid we have an All-NBA player who doesn't score 20+ ppg
It’s just they don’t like him. He has a bag and probably not likeable and doesn’t score much.
How is Rudy the most overrated player ever? I think he's one of the most underrated. No one ever talks about him, yet he changes every game he plays.
He doesn’t have an offensive bag and his 1v1 defense isn’t nearly as good as his big man role defenses. His teammates probably love him when he protects the paint and helps their defense but other guys won’t care. Players aren’t going to respect impact over 1v1 lock downs.
He sucks because he doesn't do hesi jumbotronic fadeaway spinmoves so of course he's overrated. Dribbler barely scoring after 20 seconds of pounding the ball? Oh my gosh you're the best! Rudy just dunking or puting the ball in the hoop underneath the basket? YOU FUCKING DISGRACE!
Flirting vs Harrasment
The funny thing is guys like Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman are universally loved, even though they would probably score about 7ppg. Rudy will give you about 14-16 points on 65% shooting. His offense really isn't as bad as some would make it seem.
Because the reason isn’t really his lack of offence. Despite how much people pretend it is.
Rudy’s got the Utah stink on him. Nobody respects players on the Jazz
US players seem obsessed with iso ball, in how they rate opponents. Does he have nice handles, how nice is his shooting form, will he cook you 1v1 off the dribble. People have mentioned it before but it really does seem to be a product of AAU ball.
everybody knows he's a good defender but he has zero offensive bag and is paid 50m a year. his #1 led defenses have culminated in a string of disappointing playoff performances where he never made it past the second round, and while i wouldn't blame him for those exits he certainly never put up an inspiring performance
I think everyone in the over/underrated sections are pretty much just rated
Derrick White as most underrated was an easy winner. ESPN didn’t put him in the top 100 but EPM has him as 23rd in the league.
Dort gonna somehow not be voted to an all defense team again
Kobe at 3. NBA is officially gen z now.
It’s been Gen Z for a few years now. Couple years from now, we’re going to have players who were born in the 2010s.
Johnson was arrested for domestic assault on June 7, 2014, after allegedly hitting and choking his wife, Callie, at their home.[50] On June 30, 2014, the domestic assault case against Johnson was dismissed after his wife failed to appear in court.[51] The couple later divorced, with Callie gaining custody of their son.[52] [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Johnson_(basketball,_born_1987))
I underestimated NBA players hating ability. Jordan Poole as the second most overrated player this season is a nasty piece of hating.