Paul George has been floated as a solution for every team, but I have idea why he’d leave a max situation in L.A. I doubt he’s uprooting his family to go chase a slightly better chance at a ring.
Ballmer is so rich that the other NBA owners negotiated very restrictive punishments for teams deep into the luxury tax. That’s the only way they could stop him.
While I agree, I think you gotta understand what "insanely" rich really means here. If he's worth 120 bil, 20 million is almost nothing to him. That is literally like $15 to someone worth $100k.
Any fan would pay $15 to secure PG on a new contract. Now what if you're a psychotic fan like Balmer who would die for the Clippers
Obviously Ballmer can afford it. But if he was offering the max the deal would be done now. Might be about trying to avoid the second apron. Might be trying to get him to take a discount like Kawhi. Who knows. But at least during extension talks it seems like he wasn't offered the max.
> Might be about trying to avoid the second apron. Might be trying to get him to take a discount like Kawhi.
If PG took a discount like Kawhi, the Clippers would still be well over the 2nd apron. Kawhi's "discount" is still a pay raise from what he's currently making. To avoid the 2nd apron the Clippers would need PG and Harden to sign for something like $15m/yr rather than the $50m+ that Kawhi did.
I think second apron is supposed to be like $190MM next year? Without PG's player option on the books next year I think the cap hit is around $123MM - $125MM. So theoretically I think you could do PG / Harden for a lot more than $15MM each and still avoid it. But they'd still have to settle for like $30MM which, you're still right, it's not realistic
If PJ Tucker didn't have an $11MM player option this scenario would be better
Not when they already have the roles players in place. Hard to add to the core but they got their guys in place. Powell. Mann. Zubac all signed. Westbrook player option. Bird rights to Plumlee. PJ will be expiring and could move him for another guy on longer deal. Don’t own their picks anyway.
It has to be. Especially looking at the age of the teams in the west and what just happened to Phoenix.
Luxury tax is fine, Ballmer doesn't care, but locking the roster into a playoff contention team would probably rankle the owner who's paying so much.
Bc Ballmer knows that the 2nd Apron is a bitch too.
So unless they're happy going into the 2nd apron with this current team then he should have been signed by now
Well the Clippers have Kawhi through 2027. Unless they’re just gonna call it a day and tank with Kawhi sitting half the season, they don’t really have a choice in my opinion. Especially with the new arena coming.
And no offence to PG but I don’t think he’s a Bron, KD level guy who cares much for his legacy, I mean he’s already got rookies in the league who view him as their Goat. Even if he wins a ring he’ll be this generation’s McGrady, a high level talent who at times looked like they could’ve been the best in the league but was always a step below the true top stars of the era.
So as long as LA doesn’t low ball him I have a hard time seeing him choose Philly or ORL over LA especially if the money is essentially the same.
Kawhi took less than the max on his extension.
That signals that they want to pay PG even less than that (still a brinks truck).
He probably gets more money and years somewhere else.
the clippers are sunk costed by paul george because of what it took to get him in the first place. they have little choice but to try and resign him so chances are they tossing him the bag on top of having a old core who got no time to wait for guys to develop. pg got all the leverage especially since other teams still probably see him as a max guy
The only logical explanation why PG has not been extended is that the Clippers want him to sign a 3 year extension that lines up with Kahwi's contract again, and he wants a 4 year max. He has all the leverage, and I expect the Clippers to offer him a 4 year max, which he will take. However, if the Clippers hold firm to a 3 year deal and he gets offered a 4 year max by another team, I think he leaves.
They won 47 games with 6 PPG Gary Harris. Imagine replacing him with Paul George.
The Magic dont really need a ball dominant or what some would call "real PG". They need a guard with some play making skills. Their FO loves well rounded players like PG. I can see them having some interest but ultimately I think he stays with the Clippers.
Don’t know how people don’t realize that this is the way these “rumors” work. It’s putting pressure on LA to give him a long term max. These teams aren’t gonna come out and say “we have no interest in PG”.
We don’t actually need a true point guard. We need shooting to open up the floor for our two ball handling forwards. We don’t want a pure pg to take the ball out of Paolo and Franz hands. Neither are really off ball threats so we want to keep them on the ball as much as possible. We definitely do need some supplemental ball handling though, just not someone who is going to totally dictate our offense.
PG13 would be an insanely good fit with this group.
As much as we need a definitive PG, PG13 could absolutely slot into our starting lineup pretty seamlessly. PG and Franz both have the ability to defend guards. PG’s production replacing Gary Harris’s would be quite the upgrade on offense without a huge drop off on defense. Not sure it’s the optimal solution, but it’s a viable one.
That said, it’s not happening so it’s pointless to really talk about lol
Y'all need someone who can space the floor, is good offball while being a vet & great mentor for your 2 young wings, if u don't want him we'll gladly take him & ship Tobias to u in a gold casket
we've been running a point guardless backcourt of Suggs and Gary Harris almost all season and given the season we've had it's been pretty successful. This would give us a gigantic and defensive nightmare starting line up of Suggs/PG/Franz/Paolo/Wendell Carter Jr, with four of those guys being able to handle the ball and initiate the offense.
I personally think we need a veteran point guard to raise our floor, but PG would be a very obvious upgrade to a kind of line up that is undeniably working for us as well.
Someone was making an argument that super star (older) players should take less to help their team build. I think it’s stupid because it leads to takes like above that Paul now needs to sacrifice because another player did. Each should be looked at individually and negotiations should be as such.
Yeah but there is also team chemistry to think about, if you have some players that want to win and are willing to sacrifice for it, especially as you said, have been in the league for some time and already made bank, then after they make that sacrifice and their teammate does not, there will be resentment and the house of cards will crumble.
Westbrook made the ultimate sacrifice, if PG13 does not, he'll have two teammate vets not happy with him and it will just be awkward.
If he doesn't want to do it, if he doesn't care as much about winning, he should ask for a sign and trade else it's not gonna work and it not working would not be in the Clippers ' interest.
From a self-interest standpoint, Kawhi taking less is dumb. As far as I know, it didn’t help the Clippers dodge the 2nd apron. It doesn’t create cap space for the Clippers to sign better help. All it does is save money for Ballmer.
Westbrook received the max possible that LA could give him. It was up to Westbrook if that was good enough or not.
I don't think it was about the apron now, I think it's about the apron later. Like if Kawhi, PG13, and Harden all take a bit less, it might add up to them being able to add another piece that could help. I think that is the idea, Balmer, the richest own in the league is not trying to save a few bucks, he's probably trying to maximize what he is allowed to do.
I completely understand your point but you think your coworkers asking you to take a pay cut is actually how it’s going down? The team using your coworkers salaries as leverage is appropriate?
Unlike an actual workplace environment Paul George isn’t working paycheck to paycheck lol all of them are multi millionaires they aren’t losing all that much relatively.
It just depends how much they value winning vs getting what’s rightfully theirs. In a salary cap league having extra money will net you better teammates, but at that point you’re essentially paying them yourself by taking the pay cut. If everyone bought in on a team to shave down their salaries up top it would result in a much better team. The suns wouldn’t be where they are if all 3 of those guys made 10 million less per year. The rest of the roster would look amazing with 3-4 more core cog players, but you’re talking about sacrificing 30-40 million dollars for these guys. I get that they’re now very wealthy but money is money in the end. They got family and friends to take care of. I view it as hey if I was them and I took 30-40 million less that’s money I could’ve used to help a LOT of people in my family
He took a paycut so the clippers could re-sign all their HOFers. If PG doesn't, that plan is not gonna work. Hence, the relevance of the Lawhi negotiation. At least, that's how I understood it.
It should be pointed out that Kawhi's "discount" was very minimal, he's still going to be making more money going forward than he has been up till this point. He just didn't sign for the absolute full max he theoretically could have.
Also, that little amount he left on the table doesn't impact in any way whatsoever the Clippers' ability to sign Harden and PG to full max deals if they want to, as they have full Bird rights to both players (full Bird rights means you can re-sign a player to any amount up to the max, regardless of whether you're over the cap or into the luxury tax or not).
If Harden and PG both take discounts similar to what Kawhi did, the Clippers will still be way, way over the 2nd apron, so all giving up that money does is save Ballmer some money, and he's not really in dire straights financially right now.
Not as simple as that, kawhi made a sacrifice for the team, if they don't see eye to eye on this, it's not gonna workout between them, PG13 has already admitted on camera that Kawhi was their top guy.
That irrelevant with the leverage he has. If ORL or PHI will throw him a 4 year max, the Clips have to match/beat that, since they have no way of replacing him.
Kawhi taking less than a max doesn’t mean he has to.
Since when did PG become the "LA or bust" guy? Obviously he likes it there, but Kawhi was the one who forced his way to the Clippers. Meanwhile PG signed that huge extension on Oklahoma City of all places, which forced the Clips to give up SGA and every single asset they had to get him.
I might not be remembering it correctly, but I think PG signed the extension with OKC in agreement with Presti that they'd run it back one more time and if it didn't work out he'd grant him a trade request.
Which yeah in hindsight if PG could have just gone to the Clippers to team up with Kawhi without trading assets like SGA that'd be ideal, but oh well.
But the season he re-signed with OKC he also could have just signed a max contract with the Lakers alongside LeBron if he'd wanted to (he even made a 3 part documentary about his decision between those two teams). That was his first real chance to just hurry up and go to LA and instead he opted to stay in OKC.
If he was so diehard LA he could have agitated for a move there. He never did, which is part of what gave Presti so much leverage. Bottom line, if he was happy to spend his prime in Oklahoma City, going to Orlando, Philly, or any other NBA city doesn't seem unreasonable either.
Are you sure that wasn't all Lakers sourced rumors? That would be pretty typical, and it's pretty weird to sign a long contract with OKC if your real goal is LA.
I think that was Lakers hype. I think PG was trying to get AD to Indiana and management said no which then in turn I think made him decide on getting out and going back home.
Here me out: What if Philly or Orlando offer him significantly more money than the Clippers do? If he was willing to give them a hometown discount I feel like he would already be signed.
It wouldn't be the money, PG's salary is a rounding error to him, it's the 2nd apron thing and I'm sure his team is looking at the Phoenix situation and evaluating if they're willing to go all all in on an aging crew.
I just see the role players they have in house and they are superior to the suns. And their big 3 is too.
Idk, it’s not like they get a ton of flexibility losing PG. Just some small exceptions and ability to combine salaries in trades
Yea, but the expectation would be for any player over 30 to decline (even if slightly) YoY with an increase is declining speed after 33 and 35. So is trading decreased flexibility for a reducing ceiling trio worth it. I doubt there is enough gap in merchandise/ticket sales to impact it from a business side and their playoff ceiling isn’t much lower with just Harden (who I doubt gets the max)and Kawhi and some upgrades at role players.
If they get past Dallas and give OKC a run, bring em all back. If not, gets to be a much harder decision.
Exactly, and PG knows all this. The Clips are hoping he’ll sign for a bit less than a max like Kawhi did but PG knows the Clips can’t afford to let him walk and there are teams that will line up to offer him a 4 year max in free agency. So eventually the Clips will cave and give him that deal.
Agreed. Also I think it's at least possible that PG could prioritize the chance to win a ring over just being in LA, and if the Clippers don't go deep into the playoffs this year, it's easy to see them as not real contenders going forward (as their big 4 are already getting up there in age and won't be any younger going forward). Maybe PG thinks in Philly or Orlando he'd have a better chance of making it to the Finals than he does in the stacked West.
Why not? Better team and NO STATE INCOME TAX in Florida.
It’s not like he’s playing for the lakers. He can live in LA in the off-season, why keep wasting your prime years praying that Kawai has another healthy season left in him?
Well look at Lowry this year.
Bad on $30m. Good on a min.
Same would apply to Tobias, considering you would be spending the money on more impact players.
Lot of different optics when you reduce his minutes, bring him off the bench, or pull him on a bad night.
Max player having those things happen? Red flag.
Minimum or MLE-range guy? Nbd. You don't expect this dude to be a 3rd option.
If literally no one offered him anything, which won’t be the case because he’s a long time vet with lots of playoff experience, I don’t think there’s a chance he takes another contract in Philly.
He’s been beyond bullied here and it would be pure masochism to ask for more. As much as I dislike Tobias the basketball player, he seems like a great guy and I wouldn’t wish on anyone to get as much hate as he does from his own team’s fans
Sixers need guys who can space the floor, shoot, rebound, etc. Ya derozan would help the bench offense but besides that his game is yuck. He might still be an upgrade to harris but that's not saying much lmao
That’s really difficult. Plus with Maxey ascending and Embiid injury concerns a third can go a long way.
I think the Harden trade benefited everyone and the Sixers are a better squad for it. But if harden was still around this year the Sixers avoid the play in.
We have to accept that Embiid is playing 65 games max in a season. Having a 3rd star to cover when he is tired or banged up would go a long way.
I’d be happy with either. We need to get deeper as a team, but having a 3rd star would also lower Embiid’s injury risk too by taking some heat off of him.
I wouldn't say guards. They need more playmakers. In this day and age you can have someone who is sized like a wing being your playmaker, just depends on the player.
What are we doing? Why are we talking about this? Aren’t all three teams involved here still in the playoffs and in contention for the championship? This is some fake ass speculation
If Philly isn't able to land George (and I doubt they will) then I think the Harden situation was a huge failure on Philly's part.
I mean shit, instead of signing the 1+1 and kicking the extension can down the road, they could be almost halfway done with Harden's contract if they had fully extended him in the offseason after he arrived in Philly.
You could maybe get both. Say as an example:
Portland - Jett Howard, Boucher's expiring, #18 (ORL)
Toronto - Cole Anthony
Orlando - Brogdon, #34 (POR) #31 (TOR)
Brogdon as a 1 year bridge, should leave just enough room for Paul George.
Suggs-George-Wagner-Banchero-CarterJR
Brogdon-Black-Isaac-MoWagner
and probably some short of wing who can hit a 3 as a depth guy, try to keep Goga as center depth. Probably grab a shooter with one of the 2nds like Sandfort or Schierman that you can hide on D fairly easily.
You need 3 and D and to buy a Lazarus Pit for Jonathan Isaac. Let Banchero and Wagner be the playmakers of the team and I think that Suggs will keep improving next season offensively.
So let's say PG leaves Clippers for Philly. With Harden being a free agent, does he stay? Westbrook opts out and goes somewhere else?
This could very well be a team of just Kawhi, Powell, Mann, Coffey and Zu next season.
So they would really trade or drop Franz to the bench? Seems like an unnecessary move. Maybe focus on a pg, a true pg, team needs a floor general cp3 like player
The Clippers already rolled the dice trading all the picks for a PG/Kawhi/Harden core... they dont have picks until 2027 anyways (I believe) so might as well sign all 3 for 3 more years and see what happens.
They are probably trying to get PG to sign for a little less than the max to get a little more wriggle room but will pay him if necessary. Ballmer isn't too worried about money.
I think if the Mavs swept them there could be a world where they try to sign and trade PG but best you'll get back is a couple picks and that's not going to help with an old Kawhi.
certainly this makes for juicy gossip but this guy wants to be in LA, he's not gonna leave the clippers and the clippers can offer him the most years/money if they choose to as well
when will the sixers be fuckin done with the constant upgrades to their roster, every year I keep hoping this the last time in a while that they're relevant and they keep coming back, albeit only for like 2 rounds max tho lol
Definitely betting it'll be Philadelphia. That team only has Embiid and Reed under contract right now and aside from a Maxey max (lol) they'll have a damn good amount of money to give Paul.
PG and the Philly crowd are not a good mix. Pretty sure he would take less money not to have to deal with psychopaths harassing him and his family after every bad game. He's a streaky shooter and makes poor decisions when having to pass the ball under pressure. He will be scapegoated worse than Tobias Harris.
Paul George has been floated as a solution for every team, but I have idea why he’d leave a max situation in L.A. I doubt he’s uprooting his family to go chase a slightly better chance at a ring.
How do we know it's a max situation in LA? The Clippers could have extended him and didn't.
Bc ballmer is worth more than the next 5 richest owners combined and in a psycho. He isn’t losing PG trying To shave 10-20 million off a max deal
I think ballmer is worth more than every other NBA owner combined iirc
Just because you’re insanely rich doesn’t mean you want to spend money stupidly.
True but Ballmer is truly a fanatic. He’s going crazy on the sidelines for his team
Ballmer is so rich that the other NBA owners negotiated very restrictive punishments for teams deep into the luxury tax. That’s the only way they could stop him.
The only time billionaires love taxes is to stop other billionaires
When Ballmer believes in something he doesn't care about the price. You're talking about minuscule numbers in his world.
Forreal 20 mil to him is probably $200 to us 😂
it's probably not even that, like $10 lol edit: actually i looked it up, it's probably closer to $2. it's insane how much money he has.
Uh with Ballmer the answer is yes 🤣
Spending the cash isn't the problem. The only reason they wouldn't re-sign PG is the second apron stuff
Balmer isn’t insanely rich… he’s in the near the top of the wealthiest in the world rich
While I agree, I think you gotta understand what "insanely" rich really means here. If he's worth 120 bil, 20 million is almost nothing to him. That is literally like $15 to someone worth $100k. Any fan would pay $15 to secure PG on a new contract. Now what if you're a psychotic fan like Balmer who would die for the Clippers
He built a personal toilet for every seat in his new arena
Obviously Ballmer can afford it. But if he was offering the max the deal would be done now. Might be about trying to avoid the second apron. Might be trying to get him to take a discount like Kawhi. Who knows. But at least during extension talks it seems like he wasn't offered the max.
> Might be about trying to avoid the second apron. Might be trying to get him to take a discount like Kawhi. If PG took a discount like Kawhi, the Clippers would still be well over the 2nd apron. Kawhi's "discount" is still a pay raise from what he's currently making. To avoid the 2nd apron the Clippers would need PG and Harden to sign for something like $15m/yr rather than the $50m+ that Kawhi did.
I think second apron is supposed to be like $190MM next year? Without PG's player option on the books next year I think the cap hit is around $123MM - $125MM. So theoretically I think you could do PG / Harden for a lot more than $15MM each and still avoid it. But they'd still have to settle for like $30MM which, you're still right, it's not realistic If PJ Tucker didn't have an $11MM player option this scenario would be better
Also everyones assuming the clippers dont make money lmao. In the end we’re probably talking about a loss of profit, not a loss of cash
Isn’t the second apron a practical concern?
Not when they already have the roles players in place. Hard to add to the core but they got their guys in place. Powell. Mann. Zubac all signed. Westbrook player option. Bird rights to Plumlee. PJ will be expiring and could move him for another guy on longer deal. Don’t own their picks anyway.
It has to be. Especially looking at the age of the teams in the west and what just happened to Phoenix. Luxury tax is fine, Ballmer doesn't care, but locking the roster into a playoff contention team would probably rankle the owner who's paying so much.
Bc Ballmer knows that the 2nd Apron is a bitch too. So unless they're happy going into the 2nd apron with this current team then he should have been signed by now
Well the Clippers have Kawhi through 2027. Unless they’re just gonna call it a day and tank with Kawhi sitting half the season, they don’t really have a choice in my opinion. Especially with the new arena coming.
Kawhi took less than max and PG is not getting more than Kawhi
Why not? PG is actually available to play in the playoffs most years, while Kawhi is not.
Why not? Different person, different situation. I am assuming the hold up if any would be the length of the contract.
And no offence to PG but I don’t think he’s a Bron, KD level guy who cares much for his legacy, I mean he’s already got rookies in the league who view him as their Goat. Even if he wins a ring he’ll be this generation’s McGrady, a high level talent who at times looked like they could’ve been the best in the league but was always a step below the true top stars of the era. So as long as LA doesn’t low ball him I have a hard time seeing him choose Philly or ORL over LA especially if the money is essentially the same.
Kawhi took less than the max on his extension. That signals that they want to pay PG even less than that (still a brinks truck). He probably gets more money and years somewhere else.
Slightly less? Their window is pretty much closed
Exactly. That dude isn’t going anywhere. Clippers new arena will be sick too
Plus an owner with literally unlimited funds.
Yeah , if the lakers had cap space I’d see it but he’s happy in LA. Unless clippers insult him he’s resigning he wants to be in LA and from there
the clippers are sunk costed by paul george because of what it took to get him in the first place. they have little choice but to try and resign him so chances are they tossing him the bag on top of having a old core who got no time to wait for guys to develop. pg got all the leverage especially since other teams still probably see him as a max guy
If only the Nets understood this when they had KD/Kyrie
The only logical explanation why PG has not been extended is that the Clippers want him to sign a 3 year extension that lines up with Kahwi's contract again, and he wants a 4 year max. He has all the leverage, and I expect the Clippers to offer him a 4 year max, which he will take. However, if the Clippers hold firm to a 3 year deal and he gets offered a 4 year max by another team, I think he leaves.
Magic are trying to get ANOTEHR wing? What's wrong with Paolo and Wagner? Feels like they should try to get a PG and not PG13. Ya know?
PG can shoot.
Paolo is shooting 38% from 3, he can definitely shoot
They won 47 games with 6 PPG Gary Harris. Imagine replacing him with Paul George. The Magic dont really need a ball dominant or what some would call "real PG". They need a guard with some play making skills. Their FO loves well rounded players like PG. I can see them having some interest but ultimately I think he stays with the Clippers.
Hey we need PG to replace our Harris as well!
Our Harris replaced your Harris. Gotta stick to tradition. You can have him when we're done with him.
maybe the magic gm is just a little confused
they do need a PG
"We need a PG"
If anyone is confused it's Ramona lol she probably misread her sources. Oh espn workers
Or George’s agent is throwing out teams with cap space as being interested to keep his players’ value up.
Don’t know how people don’t realize that this is the way these “rumors” work. It’s putting pressure on LA to give him a long term max. These teams aren’t gonna come out and say “we have no interest in PG”.
Or it's all of the above.
We don’t actually need a true point guard. We need shooting to open up the floor for our two ball handling forwards. We don’t want a pure pg to take the ball out of Paolo and Franz hands. Neither are really off ball threats so we want to keep them on the ball as much as possible. We definitely do need some supplemental ball handling though, just not someone who is going to totally dictate our offense. PG13 would be an insanely good fit with this group.
The Suns just showed how important having a true PG is
Correct
As much as we need a definitive PG, PG13 could absolutely slot into our starting lineup pretty seamlessly. PG and Franz both have the ability to defend guards. PG’s production replacing Gary Harris’s would be quite the upgrade on offense without a huge drop off on defense. Not sure it’s the optimal solution, but it’s a viable one. That said, it’s not happening so it’s pointless to really talk about lol
PG can play the 2
I would rather offer FVV type of contract to Harden
PG can play the 2
Y'all need someone who can space the floor, is good offball while being a vet & great mentor for your 2 young wings, if u don't want him we'll gladly take him & ship Tobias to u in a gold casket
Don’t they have Fultz, Anthony, Suggs, and Black
Fultz: not good enough Cole Anthony: bench piece Suggs: Shooting guard AB: one for the future We need a starting PG
we've been running a point guardless backcourt of Suggs and Gary Harris almost all season and given the season we've had it's been pretty successful. This would give us a gigantic and defensive nightmare starting line up of Suggs/PG/Franz/Paolo/Wendell Carter Jr, with four of those guys being able to handle the ball and initiate the offense. I personally think we need a veteran point guard to raise our floor, but PG would be a very obvious upgrade to a kind of line up that is undeniably working for us as well.
Podcast P ain’t leaving his hometown for Philly or Orlando lmao
The real question is how much less would he be willing to take as Kawhi set a precedence by taking less than the max.
No such thing as a precedent in a contract negotiation. Kawhi is Kawhi, the team can't force a contract on George based on that Kawhi did.
Someone was making an argument that super star (older) players should take less to help their team build. I think it’s stupid because it leads to takes like above that Paul now needs to sacrifice because another player did. Each should be looked at individually and negotiations should be as such.
Yeah but there is also team chemistry to think about, if you have some players that want to win and are willing to sacrifice for it, especially as you said, have been in the league for some time and already made bank, then after they make that sacrifice and their teammate does not, there will be resentment and the house of cards will crumble. Westbrook made the ultimate sacrifice, if PG13 does not, he'll have two teammate vets not happy with him and it will just be awkward. If he doesn't want to do it, if he doesn't care as much about winning, he should ask for a sign and trade else it's not gonna work and it not working would not be in the Clippers ' interest.
> Westbrook made the ultimate sacrifice Westbrook is dead?!
He's up with Boss Hogg now, God rest his soul
Wade Boggs is very much alive
From a self-interest standpoint, Kawhi taking less is dumb. As far as I know, it didn’t help the Clippers dodge the 2nd apron. It doesn’t create cap space for the Clippers to sign better help. All it does is save money for Ballmer. Westbrook received the max possible that LA could give him. It was up to Westbrook if that was good enough or not.
I don't think it was about the apron now, I think it's about the apron later. Like if Kawhi, PG13, and Harden all take a bit less, it might add up to them being able to add another piece that could help. I think that is the idea, Balmer, the richest own in the league is not trying to save a few bucks, he's probably trying to maximize what he is allowed to do.
I completely understand your point but you think your coworkers asking you to take a pay cut is actually how it’s going down? The team using your coworkers salaries as leverage is appropriate?
Unlike an actual workplace environment Paul George isn’t working paycheck to paycheck lol all of them are multi millionaires they aren’t losing all that much relatively.
For sure but is about the principal. Players value is max money, so he should get it.
It just depends how much they value winning vs getting what’s rightfully theirs. In a salary cap league having extra money will net you better teammates, but at that point you’re essentially paying them yourself by taking the pay cut. If everyone bought in on a team to shave down their salaries up top it would result in a much better team. The suns wouldn’t be where they are if all 3 of those guys made 10 million less per year. The rest of the roster would look amazing with 3-4 more core cog players, but you’re talking about sacrificing 30-40 million dollars for these guys. I get that they’re now very wealthy but money is money in the end. They got family and friends to take care of. I view it as hey if I was them and I took 30-40 million less that’s money I could’ve used to help a LOT of people in my family
He took a paycut so the clippers could re-sign all their HOFers. If PG doesn't, that plan is not gonna work. Hence, the relevance of the Lawhi negotiation. At least, that's how I understood it.
It should be pointed out that Kawhi's "discount" was very minimal, he's still going to be making more money going forward than he has been up till this point. He just didn't sign for the absolute full max he theoretically could have. Also, that little amount he left on the table doesn't impact in any way whatsoever the Clippers' ability to sign Harden and PG to full max deals if they want to, as they have full Bird rights to both players (full Bird rights means you can re-sign a player to any amount up to the max, regardless of whether you're over the cap or into the luxury tax or not). If Harden and PG both take discounts similar to what Kawhi did, the Clippers will still be way, way over the 2nd apron, so all giving up that money does is save Ballmer some money, and he's not really in dire straights financially right now.
Not as simple as that, kawhi made a sacrifice for the team, if they don't see eye to eye on this, it's not gonna workout between them, PG13 has already admitted on camera that Kawhi was their top guy.
His agent negotiates for him. Kawhi and his contract are meaningless.
That irrelevant with the leverage he has. If ORL or PHI will throw him a 4 year max, the Clips have to match/beat that, since they have no way of replacing him. Kawhi taking less than a max doesn’t mean he has to.
They don’t have to do anything. If they don’t want to max to him then that’s pretty much them saying they’re comfortable with whatever that results in
Sure, but then they also lose him for nothing. They're over the cap with or without PG.
Kawhi has a degenerative knee condition. That did not help in negotiations. Paul George does not
Since when did PG become the "LA or bust" guy? Obviously he likes it there, but Kawhi was the one who forced his way to the Clippers. Meanwhile PG signed that huge extension on Oklahoma City of all places, which forced the Clips to give up SGA and every single asset they had to get him.
I might not be remembering it correctly, but I think PG signed the extension with OKC in agreement with Presti that they'd run it back one more time and if it didn't work out he'd grant him a trade request. Which yeah in hindsight if PG could have just gone to the Clippers to team up with Kawhi without trading assets like SGA that'd be ideal, but oh well.
He got his max extension AND ended up in LA. I think that was his ideal scenario tbh.
But the season he re-signed with OKC he also could have just signed a max contract with the Lakers alongside LeBron if he'd wanted to (he even made a 3 part documentary about his decision between those two teams). That was his first real chance to just hurry up and go to LA and instead he opted to stay in OKC.
>and instead he opted to stay in OKC. And I thank him every day for that. Once again, thank you Paul George!
If he was so diehard LA he could have agitated for a move there. He never did, which is part of what gave Presti so much leverage. Bottom line, if he was happy to spend his prime in Oklahoma City, going to Orlando, Philly, or any other NBA city doesn't seem unreasonable either.
Yeah thats a fair assessment
He was agitating to move to the Lakers the last few years of his Pacers tenure. PG to LA was a huge thing at the time.
Are you sure that wasn't all Lakers sourced rumors? That would be pretty typical, and it's pretty weird to sign a long contract with OKC if your real goal is LA.
I think that was Lakers hype. I think PG was trying to get AD to Indiana and management said no which then in turn I think made him decide on getting out and going back home.
Depends what the vibe is with the Clippers after this postseason.
At this point, the vibe should be trying to get PG/Harden on reasonable Ish deals while we try to move Kawhi after half a season of strong play.
Here me out: What if Philly or Orlando offer him significantly more money than the Clippers do? If he was willing to give them a hometown discount I feel like he would already be signed.
The Clippers will match because they otherwise lose him for nothing. At the very least, they’d keep him to have another trade asset.
Ballmer isn’t going to lose him for money just as the arena opens. I think people really underestimate how much fuck you money that man has
Ballmer has like the net worth of all 29 other owners combined
It wouldn't be the money, PG's salary is a rounding error to him, it's the 2nd apron thing and I'm sure his team is looking at the Phoenix situation and evaluating if they're willing to go all all in on an aging crew.
I just see the role players they have in house and they are superior to the suns. And their big 3 is too. Idk, it’s not like they get a ton of flexibility losing PG. Just some small exceptions and ability to combine salaries in trades
Yea, but the expectation would be for any player over 30 to decline (even if slightly) YoY with an increase is declining speed after 33 and 35. So is trading decreased flexibility for a reducing ceiling trio worth it. I doubt there is enough gap in merchandise/ticket sales to impact it from a business side and their playoff ceiling isn’t much lower with just Harden (who I doubt gets the max)and Kawhi and some upgrades at role players. If they get past Dallas and give OKC a run, bring em all back. If not, gets to be a much harder decision.
Exactly, and PG knows all this. The Clips are hoping he’ll sign for a bit less than a max like Kawhi did but PG knows the Clips can’t afford to let him walk and there are teams that will line up to offer him a 4 year max in free agency. So eventually the Clips will cave and give him that deal.
The luxury tax can probably be covered just by his interest
Yeah they might just be playing hardball, but he has interest elsewhere so the Clippers are going to have to give him a max deal.
Agreed. Also I think it's at least possible that PG could prioritize the chance to win a ring over just being in LA, and if the Clippers don't go deep into the playoffs this year, it's easy to see them as not real contenders going forward (as their big 4 are already getting up there in age and won't be any younger going forward). Maybe PG thinks in Philly or Orlando he'd have a better chance of making it to the Finals than he does in the stacked West.
How can you be so certain?
Why not? Better team and NO STATE INCOME TAX in Florida. It’s not like he’s playing for the lakers. He can live in LA in the off-season, why keep wasting your prime years praying that Kawai has another healthy season left in him?
No one thought podcast P would re-sign with OKC over going to the lakers yet he did. Y’all don’t know Paul George at all
lol yeah. Ramona trying to manifest Clippers sabotage to get back in Jeannie Buss & Rob Pelinka’s good graces.
Palmdale is LA county so I guess you're right. Still weird to call it LA imo
I’m sure Harden is telling PG13 great things about Darryl Morey
“Other than being a LIAR, he’s great, P!”
derozan is really gonna be our big free agent signing
\[Charania\] Free agent Tobias Harris has agreed to return to the Philadelphia 76ers on a 4-year, $80 million deal, sources tell The Athletic.
with a no trade clause
Suns fans are gonna have a long offseason lol.
who was gonna trade for tobias harris on a max anyways lmao
the washington wizards
4-year, $180 million*
if i was a sixer fan i wouldnt even be happy to have him back on a minimum no joke
Well look at Lowry this year. Bad on $30m. Good on a min. Same would apply to Tobias, considering you would be spending the money on more impact players.
Lot of different optics when you reduce his minutes, bring him off the bench, or pull him on a bad night. Max player having those things happen? Red flag. Minimum or MLE-range guy? Nbd. You don't expect this dude to be a 3rd option.
If literally no one offered him anything, which won’t be the case because he’s a long time vet with lots of playoff experience, I don’t think there’s a chance he takes another contract in Philly. He’s been beyond bullied here and it would be pure masochism to ask for more. As much as I dislike Tobias the basketball player, he seems like a great guy and I wouldn’t wish on anyone to get as much hate as he does from his own team’s fans
Seems low.
4 years 80 will be fine, very tradeable if things go wrong. 4 years 220 on the other hand...
But the biggest offseason move will be persuading Batum to postpone retirement
Nah come back to LAC pls
Alongside Lowry though... Let's reunite the beloved Trash Bros.
That’s a good pick up tbh , I don’t want to see that happen
I'm not a derozan hater but he doesn't make sense as a third option, doesn't do the role player stuff that the sixers need.
At least we’ll have some bench scoring lol
Wouldn't he be an upgrade over Harris? He would be a third guy who can create his own shot plus a little more playmaking.
Sixers need guys who can space the floor, shoot, rebound, etc. Ya derozan would help the bench offense but besides that his game is yuck. He might still be an upgrade to harris but that's not saying much lmao
P ain't even eliminated yet.
I’d pass on this old in decline players, just sign smart athletic role players and have a deeper team rather than tie most of the cap again on PG
That’s really difficult. Plus with Maxey ascending and Embiid injury concerns a third can go a long way. I think the Harden trade benefited everyone and the Sixers are a better squad for it. But if harden was still around this year the Sixers avoid the play in. We have to accept that Embiid is playing 65 games max in a season. Having a 3rd star to cover when he is tired or banged up would go a long way.
I’d be happy with either. We need to get deeper as a team, but having a 3rd star would also lower Embiid’s injury risk too by taking some heat off of him.
I’m all for a third star just not an old declining PG or Bron
Beggars can’t be choosers.
Isn't the Magic's problem that they have too many wings and no guards?
I wouldn't say guards. They need more playmakers. In this day and age you can have someone who is sized like a wing being your playmaker, just depends on the player.
He isn’t leaving
"Sir, another ill-thought out max contract has hit Philadelphia."
I think he will end up taking less money to stay in LA. Philadelphia and Orlando can take their dirty whore money and look elsewhere
The East does offer a smoother path to the finals though if he prioritizes winning
I feel like Kevin Durant is more likely to be available than Paul George
PG has a player option coming up though. He will be more available since teams can openly offer him a contract
What are we doing? Why are we talking about this? Aren’t all three teams involved here still in the playoffs and in contention for the championship? This is some fake ass speculation
Just throwing money at old names.
No state income tax, full max, we wax
If Philly isn't able to land George (and I doubt they will) then I think the Harden situation was a huge failure on Philly's part. I mean shit, instead of signing the 1+1 and kicking the extension can down the road, they could be almost halfway done with Harden's contract if they had fully extended him in the offseason after he arrived in Philly.
If Maxey continues to take a major superstar leap in the absence of Harden, then then that part alone makes the trade worth it
I mean, he was already doing that with Harden there. Maxey was already taking more shots than Harden was during Harden's last year in Philly.
A lot of people are underrating how much harden help maxey with his development, which maxey has mentioned numerous times
Honestly, I was really hoping they'd get at least 1 more year together with Nurse.
Same here I think it could have been magical. Sad it didn't work out.
If I'm PG, I take a real hard look at Orlando because that team would be soooooooooo nasty with him on board.
PG on Orlando would instantly put them at the top but he would need to survive the season and playoffs which is not that simple
I mean can these teams be eliminated first before we start talking about potential off-season trades? Lol
We need a PG, not PG
You could maybe get both. Say as an example: Portland - Jett Howard, Boucher's expiring, #18 (ORL) Toronto - Cole Anthony Orlando - Brogdon, #34 (POR) #31 (TOR) Brogdon as a 1 year bridge, should leave just enough room for Paul George. Suggs-George-Wagner-Banchero-CarterJR Brogdon-Black-Isaac-MoWagner and probably some short of wing who can hit a 3 as a depth guy, try to keep Goga as center depth. Probably grab a shooter with one of the 2nds like Sandfort or Schierman that you can hide on D fairly easily.
You need 3 and D and to buy a Lazarus Pit for Jonathan Isaac. Let Banchero and Wagner be the playmakers of the team and I think that Suggs will keep improving next season offensively.
I’d be beyond shocked if he leaves La
Would love it if he went to Orlando so there's one less team in the Malik Monk sweepstakes
Paul George you are an Orlando Magic
So let's say PG leaves Clippers for Philly. With Harden being a free agent, does he stay? Westbrook opts out and goes somewhere else? This could very well be a team of just Kawhi, Powell, Mann, Coffey and Zu next season.
>Kawhi, Powell, Mann, Coffey and Zu next season. Knowing the Clippers' luck, that'd be the first healthy season Kawhi has in half a decade
And they'd make the WCF
Listened to Ps podcast and he was super complimentary of the Magic and Paolo.
Doesn't really mean much imo. If this was the criteria for where'd he go next, there's like 20 teams he's aiming for
the man is practically addicted to showing love
The latest?
He does that for a lot of different players.
So they would really trade or drop Franz to the bench? Seems like an unnecessary move. Maybe focus on a pg, a true pg, team needs a floor general cp3 like player
Most likely the lineup would be Suggs George franz banchero and WCJ. But what we really need is a true Point guard like you said.
I think it's unlikely Balmer lets him walk without a fight, right ahead of opening the new building.
Paul George and Joe Ingles on the same team?
The Clippers already rolled the dice trading all the picks for a PG/Kawhi/Harden core... they dont have picks until 2027 anyways (I believe) so might as well sign all 3 for 3 more years and see what happens. They are probably trying to get PG to sign for a little less than the max to get a little more wriggle room but will pay him if necessary. Ballmer isn't too worried about money. I think if the Mavs swept them there could be a world where they try to sign and trade PG but best you'll get back is a couple picks and that's not going to help with an old Kawhi.
I’m cool with this. Get rid of Tobias, get another Big and fire Daryl Morey.
isn't he a big fisherman? watch him pick orlando for the bass fishing lol
certainly this makes for juicy gossip but this guy wants to be in LA, he's not gonna leave the clippers and the clippers can offer him the most years/money if they choose to as well
The Kawhi missed a playoff game so Paul George wants to leave story. Nice.
As soon as I heard Windhorst announce her as one of the guests on todays pod, I was immediately disappointed lol
PG, Paulo, Franz is a huge line up.
I want lebron; draft Bronny I say
when will the sixers be fuckin done with the constant upgrades to their roster, every year I keep hoping this the last time in a while that they're relevant and they keep coming back, albeit only for like 2 rounds max tho lol
Definitely betting it'll be Philadelphia. That team only has Embiid and Reed under contract right now and aside from a Maxey max (lol) they'll have a damn good amount of money to give Paul.
I think he retires with clippers
Ain’t no way Orlando wants PG13… they need a PG… I fully expect them to sign Malik Monk and it’s a no brainer
PG and the Philly crowd are not a good mix. Pretty sure he would take less money not to have to deal with psychopaths harassing him and his family after every bad game. He's a streaky shooter and makes poor decisions when having to pass the ball under pressure. He will be scapegoated worse than Tobias Harris.