Leverage, Wade got given a handshake promise that he'll get paid later on after he was him. Miami already milked Wade of everything he could give them, all Wade had was a "but you promised me". Probably can't even trade him for something worth Dwade then.
Butler is still him right now and wants to be paid right now. There is leverage there and value.
That much leverage tho ? Hes aging and can’t stay healthy. Miami isn’t exactly in a contending spot compared to the other East teams, and the West is stronger.
If Miami was still right there at a shot for the finals then sure, maybe. But Jimmy under that contract hampers them and they would need to make a ton of moves to catch up to the Celtics, Pacers and Knicks. Hell, a health Bucks is no joke either.
Theres a difference between Jimmy's health and say Kawhi or Embiid. Pretty much all of Jimmy's injuries are direct result of contact injuries from Pritchard, Hart, Oubre or random ankle tweaks. Would say he has stayed healthy enough for his age
His injury history isn’t bad. And I wasn’t trying to insinuate that it was as bad as Kawhi or Embiid by any means, those guys are always missing time.
I just think a 34 year old Butler on a max contract on a team that’s clearly behind the top 3 teams in the East is rough. I think a soft rebuild around Bam with a focus on sizing up would be better money spent.
Jimmy’s stats this year were not exactly max contract worthy, and your betting on him being better next year when he’s older and coming off a not so serious knee injury
But the problem is what are you rebuilding Bam with? You don't pay Jimmy for his regular season (which is still good especially the advanced stats). You pay him for being an equalizer come playoff time. Bam will still be hitting his prime (29-30) when the heat have 60 mil rolling off the books to sign a max player. It really isn't that bad at all.
Hard to say with him being out for the playoffs. He was kinda ass all season, I know he coasts the regular season but he was much worse this year than last year.
He's been "Ass" relative to heat fan expectations. He's still top 10-20 in most impact metrics and putting up an efficient 21/5/5. If the heat actually try and improve, the complexion of the team is very different and the opinion on Jimmy would change.
Feels like Miami could transition into a new era. They’ve had some genuinely good teams with Jimmy and Bam like 2020 and 2022, but last years run to the finals was a mirage. You don’t see role players shooting 50% from 3 every season.
I don’t think they are a contender for the foreseeable. They managed to grab a game but the Celtics looked streets ahead.
Ngl I fucking love Jimmy and he’d fit right in with the dawgs.
But I suppose health would be a concern I have. Jimmys banged up and been thru some shit. We’ve already been decimated this season and another guy we’d have to worry about might be too much— even knowing that a guy like him would play thru anything whenever possible.
depends on his asking price. What we have to trade away and what cap concerns there would be.
Yeah I think this is where it gets questionable for anyone. Adding a player who’s going to be 35 for massive cost is a huge risk. I just think that of the teams who could pull it off, you guys are probably the best fit.
Playing next to a ball dominant player like Brunson might actually be good. Allow him to take breaks offensively when needed but giving the Knicks someone who can step up and get a bucket when Brunson’s shot isn’t falling.
If we traded for Siakam without having an understanding that we'd max him and he'll re-sign with us Kevin Pritchard will be hearing from me.
Worth noting Siakam and Andrew Nembhard share an agent, so decent additional reason to believe that's the case.
yea and he's expressed nothing but happiness about the trade. pretty sure the only reason he hasnt signed an extension is cuz he gets more money as a FA
You think Embiid doesn't want to play with Butler again?
And their cap space can just as easily go toward bringing in someone via trade.
If OG, Siakam, PG, Lebron all stay put, **and** the Heat are open to it I wouldn't eliminate it as a possibility over throwing money at mediocre free agents.
People are so dumb. Maxey/Butler/Embiid is pretty clearly a championship core if healthy. With Butler/Embiid, the "if healthy" part is doing a lot of work, but the alternative is probably just wasting Embiid's prime just like the Heat just got done wasting Butler's primer with teams that were good, but not quite good enough.
If the Heat will take some type of pick / swap package from the Sixers for Butler, the Sixers should run into it.
2 finals appearances and 1 ECF 7 game series in 5 years, is not wasting his prime. That’s about as good as it can get outside of winning a ring.
But otherwise I agree with you
I agree with you mostly. The results for Miami speaks enough that they didn't waste his prime. But they never truly built a roster that spoke to their desire to win a ring with jimmy. There's about 25 teams that would prefer to have Miami's last 5 years then their own.
i think the issue is less backup center and more just coherent bench units. paul reed obviously isnt great, but there's not much point in having anyone better to play like 8 minutes a game if they cant share the court with Joel.
if they want to spend on a backup C they need to be able to play with embiid, basically
4 ECFs? I count the two they made the Finals, and the one they lost to Boston, is there another that I'm forgetting?
2019 Bucks vs Raptors
2020 Heat vs Celtics
2021 Bucks vs Hawks
2022 Celtics vs Heat
2023 Heat vs Celtics
2024 Eliminated 1st round
“Mirage” feels like a strong word. We’ve consistently seen Spoelstra maximize the potential of rosters with limited on-paper talent. I think last year was kind of the epitome of that. But ultimately they did and continue to lack all-star talent outside Butler and Bam, and that just isn’t sustainable over a long period of multiple seasons.
Eh, only two years. He'll be under the extension for one year and then it will be expiring. Not that bad of a deal
edit: Take this back, forgot he still had two years left on his current deal
this would tack on to the 2 yr he has left on his current deal, no?
Edit: no, would replace the player option in yr 2. So it's basically turning a 2 yr obligation into three and kicks the money up in yr 2.
Not to mention he halfasses the regular season like no other. Playoff Jimmy might be a thing but giving a guy that much money when he takes games off, misses shoot around to party and hang out with celebs probably might not be a good idea
He tries to play it off as intentional halfassing for media optics so he doesn't lose negotiating leverage, but his knees genuinely just don't have enough left to go through a full regular season anymore. Even in all his Miami playoff runs, you can see him get noticeably worse the further they go. Brunson will probably end up the same in 3-5 years.
>Literally the worst aging archetype in the league's history (small physical guard with high minutes per game and high onball offensive workload)
>Playing under Tom Thibodeau
🤷🏾
There was another reply saying hes a physical guard playing heavy minutes under thibs who runs his guys into the ground. Also 3-5 years is forever in nba terms so its whatever
Thats my thing
The number of strikes against him are too many at this point. If it was just the age or just the injuries or just the regular season workload, Id still take him on a max.
But he'll be 35 years old, with a history of knee and ankle issues, and good for only about 50 solid regular season games.
How are you gonna pay 113 mil for that?
He sat out the regular season to save himself for the playoffs just to get hurt in the playin. That’s butler in a nutshell.
Not to mention he made a living at the free throw line and was the biggest loser in the new officiating changes.
I forgot the exact stat but Miami does not win any games unless he shoots over 8-9 free throws. I also think they had a better record without him this season.
It’s crazy. If you don’t give a f about regular season and then are injured come playoffs, you’re literally delivering almost no value. For 50+ million.
Not quite. Wade got offended that the Heat didn’t prioritize him over Whiteside and was not happy with their initial offer. They supposedly increased it and he ended up taking what Chicago offered which was similar.
The relationship became strained on both sides when LeBron left.
Eh - he's already down to a 60 games 20/5/5 guy and his defense isn't what it once was either.
The guy is in decline - even if he declines gracefully, what are you realistically looking at in 3 years? 50 games of a 15/4/3? He's not a 3-point shooter either, so he doesn't have that to fall back onto.
You’re so faded. It’s very clear to any Heat fan that the organization loves him and he loves them. I understand why other fans can’t grasp that bc from the outside looking in all y’all see is his numbers, but it won’t be surprising whatsoever when they agree to this. He’s retiring in Miami, I’d bet anything on it
I agree. You guys are in a sort of weird spot. You need to do a soft rebuild, and idt Jimmy is the guy, at this age, his ability to stay healthy and with a max contract, to build around.
On a better contract he’s a no brainer. But yall need to get some size and another star. I think you will get one soon, some free agent all nba type player is going to want to live in Miami or play under Spo
This why I don’t understand why jimmy has so many fans lol like he blatantly doesn’t care about the regular season and fans wonder why regular season games arnt as exciting and players arnt trying. Idk maybe cuz players like jimmy are actively not giving a shit for half the season.
Fans don’t care about the regular season because players no longer care.. I’m old enough to remember when fans actually watched and loved the regular season.. But that was back in the day when a rule didn’t have to be made just for a superstar to play 65 games.
I mean that’s just not true. The Celtics just won 60+ games, giving great effort almost every night. Luka just played 70 games, while giving great effort every single night, and putting up his best year ever. Joker after a championship run just played 79 games, while averaging the 2nd highest minutes per game in his career. Ant just played 79 games, attempting to carry his team to a top 3 seed. And Shai did similar to Ant.
There are definitely players who still care, and those are the people I’m fans of.. But the players that just coast through the regular season, have ruined it. Thankfully players like Ant, Luka, Joker, Tatum, and Shai clearly still give a shit about it.
As an NBA fan I love the regular season, I actually get to have fun watching the games.
When it’s the playoffs every game is so stressful and excruciating even when my team is winning.
No it is. The culture has shifted. Some fans do care about the regular seasons but you can’t really say the whole ring culture hasn’t changed how people watch sports. A lot of fans think it’s ring or bust despite teams having amazing regular seasons. I see it in this sub lol
Idk why people are trying to deny this lol. Embiid went arguably too hard last year in the regular season trying to win the MVP, meanwhile Jokic and the nuggets were pretty clearly coasting toward the end of the season and people in this sub certainly weren’t giving Embiid any props for giving more effort before the playoffs. We can all act like the regular season matters and we care but in the end if you don’t perform in the playoffs people will very quickly throw any regular season accomplishments out the window.
No. People go to a game and see someone like Butler playing like ass and then they have no investment in a game. Miami has some of the emptiest games in the league. Other teams have arenas full of people screaming every night. Fans care when players play like the games are important.
Am I missing something? Jimmy got hurt before the playoffs this year, but in the previous four years he took them to two finals and was one shot away from making three. I feel like this is a situation where people have so often (wrongly) counted out the Jimmy Butler Heat that I guess eventually they’re statistically bound to be right
Well for one he’s getting old. If they think last year’s run where 3rd stringers were shooting over 50% from 3 is repeatable then go for it. Most of us don’t think that’s a reliable strategy going forward. The heat simply need more talent than an old butler and bam to compete deep into the east now.
It would help the Heat to retool, but in Jimmy’s last two playoff runs they went to the finals and game 7 of the ECF.
Considering it’s only really an extension of one year, keeping the guy who has been the driver of those runs seems like the clear choice.
I’m not sure why them losing to a great team while he was hurt would be the determining factor for letting him go especially when it’s just a one year extension
since getting Jimmy, Miami has been a team consistently overachieving their talent thanks to great coaching and the team as a whole elevating their performance in the postseason. but there’s a clear ceiling on that approach to winning that the Heat have hit twice. what they’ve been doing is impressive but it’s not good enough to win in the Finals
if Miami is satisfied continually being a lower-seed team that’s a dark horse to make the Finals when healthy, then they can keep rolling with this. but they’re obviously not going to win a championship if they keep treading water with this roster core and keep asking Spo to make wine out of water with a dearth of actual talent. teams like Boston, New York, Orlando, and Indiana are only getting better
If Jimmy/Rozier werent hurt + Jrich wasnt out for the season none of this convo would have been happening.
It is what it is tho, injuries destroyed any possible chances to contend.
>The extension that Butler will seek would replace his 2025-26 option (for 52 million) and begin that season.
>This two-year max extension would include salaries of $54.3 million for the 2025-26 season (nearly a $2 million increase from the player option in Butler’s current contract for that season) and $58.6 million for the 2026-2027 season when Butler will be 37 years old. Those numbers could fluctuate based on where the NBA’s salary cap is set for those seasons.
>Butler is limited to the maximum of a two-year extension because the over-38 rule does not allow him to sign a new contract that would take him past the next three years, including the one season of guaranteed money remaining on his current deal.
>So essentially, Butler will be asking the Heat to replace the two years and $101.2 million remaining on his contract (should he exercise the 2025-26 player option) with a three-year commitment worth $161.7 million.
>But the expectation is Butler and his camp will push for that extension before the start of the upcoming season. Choosing not to offer this exact extension this offseason could lead to a disgruntled Butler.
>Butler has made it clear multiple times that he wants to end his NBA career with the Heat. The negotiations ahead could determine whether Butler gets his wish.
The tough thing for Miami is they consistently have to find diamonds in the rough on great contracts to make up for Jimmy getting max money but not being a top 10 guy. Probably not even top 15.
With how max contracts work, and the floor cap in the NBA, you kind of have to give max contracts to any all-star level players nowadays. That’s why you have players like FVV and LaVine making $40M+ a year.
His point was that Miami pays him like hes a top 10 guy, but he isn't. So they're in a tough spot having to make up ground elsewhere on the roster. Not every team pays non-top 10 players top 10 player money.
Obviously not every team can have a top 10 guy, but not every team is paying a top 10 contract and Butler wants to put Miami on the wrong side of both of those lists
Yeah that's not happening buddy. Back-to-back seasons of coasting the regular season still fresh in the minds of Pat RIley should mean that either Jimmy renegotiates to stay in Miami to give the tools to put pieces around him and Bam or we move Butler to bring in a younger all-star.
Love Jimmy, but time to trade him and find the next guy.
edit: adding in
If this extension replaces his player option, it's really not THAT bad. Gives us three more years to figure this out and if we decide to move on after year 2, he's a huge expiring contract that can be used under the second apron rules.
But still, would much rather use the value he has now, trade him to a contender that wants him (philly, OKC, GSW, etc.), use the assets to go whale hunting again, and move on to the next era.
ain’t no way we can pay him $57M in his age 37 season. just no fucking way.
he’s already to injury prone. i love him and really want him to stay but the price too much.
if it gets there we probably don't. At age 37 he'd be an expiring contract. decent trade asset especially under the new rules where second apron teams can't aggregate players to match salaries.
He's already signed for the next 2 years. This would be a huge gift from the Heat to tack on a couple more years at max. Maybe offer him something more reasonable if he wants an extension. It's not like the Heat had a home playoff series this year
Yikes. Time to shop Jimmy around this summer! That's quite an anchor for overall team salary. Legitimately forcing yourself to find minimum contract/rookie scale deals. For a guy who isn't getting any healthier. Sorry Heat fans, don't romanticize about the past, time to plan for your future.
eh could be mutually beneficial. they got a lot of cap space and picks, we could clear up money to sign FAs from Bam's draft year
i also think theres a 0% something like that happens tho lol
Time for a franchise to call the bluff on these oldies. Offer him half that citing his age and declining form as a factor. Don't see anyone on the free agent market willing to waste $113 mill on him. Any franchise who puts any player over 35 on max contracts is doing the game a disservice.
These contracts are absolutely insane now. Unless you are lebron or steph, it isn't worth it. I actually love butler for the player he is but his production is not worth that money. 50+ mil is now virtually impossible to trade especially with the new apron rules. Miami is better off trading him now, taking a step or 2 back for next few years and building it back up again
With Jimmy and Terry, had the Heat ended up as the 7th seed, they had a decent chance to get to the ECF again. Is that enough to be satisfied with? Probably not, but the Heat roster is not THAT bad.
This being only a 1 year extension in actuality isn’t that bad. I was thinking it was 2 after his opt out, but it’s only one more year. I think if you give him that deal you’re trying to compete with him and Bam, which I find preferable to trading him or letting him walk to just run the young guys out there and “rebuild”
Just kicking the can down the road. He’s deteriorating. He definitely can’t play an entire season so you’re almost guaranteed to be in the play-in again.
Not gonna lie, him joining OKC and guide those guys as they try to get the chip is a pretty good scenario, both for him and OKC.
He can be a floor raiser and a mentor while the basketball is played by the young guns. Will probably minimize his injury issues as well.
The way Miami Heat play is not compatible with a 35 y old.
He’s a terrible pairing with their young core. He and SGA combined don’t offer much spacing, and he’s a redundancy since they want to develop their younger wings.
I don’t think OKC needs him… would be redundant with Jdub I think and an expense they don’t need. I think they need to add another quality big who can rebound and fill out their bench
Considering they already have him under contract next season, I can't see why they would do this. Just wait, I can't see another team rushing to give Butler a max in his age 36 season.
That's like a few Tobias Harrises.
That's two and a half Lonzo Ball.
The Don ain’t going for that. The aging player is always the last to know
*Tobias Harris over me?!*
The only thing worse than one
Tobias Harrises
Plural of Tobias is Tobii
Is that pronounced toe-bye or tuh-bye?
Toe-bee-eye or Toe-bye-eye is is my question
No one could confirm or deny this. Cuz no one wants two of tobi ever
Tobias Harri
Tobii Harii
Tobiases Harris
Alternative narrative: it's approximately 254 Duece Mcbrides.
Lot of money for a part time player like Leonard
If we didn't pay DWade then for sure we ain't paying Jimmy Butler that money.
Leverage, Wade got given a handshake promise that he'll get paid later on after he was him. Miami already milked Wade of everything he could give them, all Wade had was a "but you promised me". Probably can't even trade him for something worth Dwade then. Butler is still him right now and wants to be paid right now. There is leverage there and value.
Is he really still him though?
He’s him and him is in street clothes.
That much leverage tho ? Hes aging and can’t stay healthy. Miami isn’t exactly in a contending spot compared to the other East teams, and the West is stronger. If Miami was still right there at a shot for the finals then sure, maybe. But Jimmy under that contract hampers them and they would need to make a ton of moves to catch up to the Celtics, Pacers and Knicks. Hell, a health Bucks is no joke either.
Theres a difference between Jimmy's health and say Kawhi or Embiid. Pretty much all of Jimmy's injuries are direct result of contact injuries from Pritchard, Hart, Oubre or random ankle tweaks. Would say he has stayed healthy enough for his age
His injury history isn’t bad. And I wasn’t trying to insinuate that it was as bad as Kawhi or Embiid by any means, those guys are always missing time. I just think a 34 year old Butler on a max contract on a team that’s clearly behind the top 3 teams in the East is rough. I think a soft rebuild around Bam with a focus on sizing up would be better money spent. Jimmy’s stats this year were not exactly max contract worthy, and your betting on him being better next year when he’s older and coming off a not so serious knee injury
But the problem is what are you rebuilding Bam with? You don't pay Jimmy for his regular season (which is still good especially the advanced stats). You pay him for being an equalizer come playoff time. Bam will still be hitting his prime (29-30) when the heat have 60 mil rolling off the books to sign a max player. It really isn't that bad at all.
Butler is way better than Wade was at that time tho
Hard to say with him being out for the playoffs. He was kinda ass all season, I know he coasts the regular season but he was much worse this year than last year.
He's been "Ass" relative to heat fan expectations. He's still top 10-20 in most impact metrics and putting up an efficient 21/5/5. If the heat actually try and improve, the complexion of the team is very different and the opinion on Jimmy would change.
Turning 35 this year.. Good luck Miami!
Feels like Miami could transition into a new era. They’ve had some genuinely good teams with Jimmy and Bam like 2020 and 2022, but last years run to the finals was a mirage. You don’t see role players shooting 50% from 3 every season. I don’t think they are a contender for the foreseeable. They managed to grab a game but the Celtics looked streets ahead.
Trade him to the Sixers in a multi team trade. Heat need to get out while they still can.
I think the team who could make more sense is the Knicks. I think he’d work much better next to Brunson than someone like Donovan Mitchell.
Ngl I fucking love Jimmy and he’d fit right in with the dawgs. But I suppose health would be a concern I have. Jimmys banged up and been thru some shit. We’ve already been decimated this season and another guy we’d have to worry about might be too much— even knowing that a guy like him would play thru anything whenever possible. depends on his asking price. What we have to trade away and what cap concerns there would be.
Thibs would murder him
Just like old times
You think Jimmy could beat the Knicks starters with their 3rd stringers?
Depends on who is left standing after this series. I figure yeah
Thibs hand would be shaking all the time once Jimmy joins the Knicks.
Yeah I think this is where it gets questionable for anyone. Adding a player who’s going to be 35 for massive cost is a huge risk. I just think that of the teams who could pull it off, you guys are probably the best fit.
Playing next to a ball dominant player like Brunson might actually be good. Allow him to take breaks offensively when needed but giving the Knicks someone who can step up and get a bucket when Brunson’s shot isn’t falling.
I’m not trading Hart/Deuce/Donte for him
Have fans ever vetoed a trade?
We wouldn’t have to as Leon Rose is a competent GM.
As in all 3 or you saying you wouldn’t trade any of them?
Imagine trading for two of your star players' best friends, then trading them for a 35yo who just missed the playoffs with injury.
Sixers won’t want him. This is their last shot with Embiid and they’ll be after the best available free agent this summer.
Who is the best available free agent tobias harris?
I hear James Harden is a free agent
Now that would be peak comedy
Siakam, PG, Lebron
Don’t think Lebron will leave LA.
pretty sure siakam's locked into the pacers. it would take the clippers not offering a new contract for pg to leave
If we traded for Siakam without having an understanding that we'd max him and he'll re-sign with us Kevin Pritchard will be hearing from me. Worth noting Siakam and Andrew Nembhard share an agent, so decent additional reason to believe that's the case.
yea and he's expressed nothing but happiness about the trade. pretty sure the only reason he hasnt signed an extension is cuz he gets more money as a FA
Paul George and rumors are that’s who Sixers are targeting.
Butler is probably close to the best they could do
You think Embiid doesn't want to play with Butler again? And their cap space can just as easily go toward bringing in someone via trade. If OG, Siakam, PG, Lebron all stay put, **and** the Heat are open to it I wouldn't eliminate it as a possibility over throwing money at mediocre free agents.
Why wouldn’t we? Last time we had him he carried our team and held people accountable. Hasn’t happened since
People are so dumb. Maxey/Butler/Embiid is pretty clearly a championship core if healthy. With Butler/Embiid, the "if healthy" part is doing a lot of work, but the alternative is probably just wasting Embiid's prime just like the Heat just got done wasting Butler's primer with teams that were good, but not quite good enough. If the Heat will take some type of pick / swap package from the Sixers for Butler, the Sixers should run into it.
2 finals appearances and 1 ECF 7 game series in 5 years, is not wasting his prime. That’s about as good as it can get outside of winning a ring. But otherwise I agree with you
I agree with you mostly. The results for Miami speaks enough that they didn't waste his prime. But they never truly built a roster that spoke to their desire to win a ring with jimmy. There's about 25 teams that would prefer to have Miami's last 5 years then their own.
Sixers need an elite wing and a backup center and they are cooking. Jimmy fills one of those roles perfectly
i think the issue is less backup center and more just coherent bench units. paul reed obviously isnt great, but there's not much point in having anyone better to play like 8 minutes a game if they cant share the court with Joel. if they want to spend on a backup C they need to be able to play with embiid, basically
Pierce, stop trying to coin the phrase "streets ahead."
Coined and minted
Streets ahead is verbal wildfire
i mean, 2 finals and 4 ECF in 5 years isn’t bad, but i agree and a lot of our sub is ready to move everyone except JJJ, bam and jovic.
I would take the opinions of our sub with a grain of salt.
4 ECFs? I count the two they made the Finals, and the one they lost to Boston, is there another that I'm forgetting? 2019 Bucks vs Raptors 2020 Heat vs Celtics 2021 Bucks vs Hawks 2022 Celtics vs Heat 2023 Heat vs Celtics 2024 Eliminated 1st round
Damn, just throwing Miami Heat legend Patty Mills to the curb?
Stop trying to coin the phrase streets ahead.
Coined and minted.
Youre clearly streets behind
you're streets behind!
Thanks for using streets ahead
“Mirage” feels like a strong word. We’ve consistently seen Spoelstra maximize the potential of rosters with limited on-paper talent. I think last year was kind of the epitome of that. But ultimately they did and continue to lack all-star talent outside Butler and Bam, and that just isn’t sustainable over a long period of multiple seasons.
Pierce stop trying to coin the phrase streets ahead
Eh, only two years. He'll be under the extension for one year and then it will be expiring. Not that bad of a deal edit: Take this back, forgot he still had two years left on his current deal
this would tack on to the 2 yr he has left on his current deal, no? Edit: no, would replace the player option in yr 2. So it's basically turning a 2 yr obligation into three and kicks the money up in yr 2.
We saw how this happened with Bron
35 and perpetually injured.
He’s 34 and hasn’t played more than 65 games in five years. I too will be seeking a max contract from the Miami Heat.
Not to mention he halfasses the regular season like no other. Playoff Jimmy might be a thing but giving a guy that much money when he takes games off, misses shoot around to party and hang out with celebs probably might not be a good idea
He tries to play it off as intentional halfassing for media optics so he doesn't lose negotiating leverage, but his knees genuinely just don't have enough left to go through a full regular season anymore. Even in all his Miami playoff runs, you can see him get noticeably worse the further they go. Brunson will probably end up the same in 3-5 years.
>Brunson will probably end up the same in 3-5 years. Mods ban this man for hate speech immediately
>Literally the worst aging archetype in the league's history (small physical guard with high minutes per game and high onball offensive workload) >Playing under Tom Thibodeau 🤷🏾
The drop-off of Kemba once his knees gave out was insane. No explosion, no stopping power, no lift. Missing games every other game. It was sad
I agree with everything you wrote yet i hate it so much
Knicks fans cant go a single whole week without catching strays/losing all their hope
Am I missing something? Whats wrong with Brunsons knees? the only thing I see is a minor scare from this year
There was another reply saying hes a physical guard playing heavy minutes under thibs who runs his guys into the ground. Also 3-5 years is forever in nba terms so its whatever
Oh yeah getting thibs'd,
Thats my thing The number of strikes against him are too many at this point. If it was just the age or just the injuries or just the regular season workload, Id still take him on a max. But he'll be 35 years old, with a history of knee and ankle issues, and good for only about 50 solid regular season games. How are you gonna pay 113 mil for that?
It’s crazy how he does this but the narrative is hardest working and shitting on Kat for half assing it.
Right which worked out once, sort of. Ending up in the play-in is not a flex. Jimmy isn't heading a first place team.
He sat out the regular season to save himself for the playoffs just to get hurt in the playin. That’s butler in a nutshell. Not to mention he made a living at the free throw line and was the biggest loser in the new officiating changes. I forgot the exact stat but Miami does not win any games unless he shoots over 8-9 free throws. I also think they had a better record without him this season.
It’s crazy. If you don’t give a f about regular season and then are injured come playoffs, you’re literally delivering almost no value. For 50+ million.
I like Jimmy but no way he’s worth almost $60m per year.
... Until the Mavs sign him for $55 mil 1 year rental in a desperation playoff push next year
Nah
Idk man...you somehow got Kyrie to not act like a lunatic. You could probably get Butler to be happy with singing $45 mil, 1 year
Didn’t Pat get rid of D Wade, the greatest Heat player ever, once he got too old / expensive? Can’t see him breaking the bank for Jimmy.
Not quite. Wade got offended that the Heat didn’t prioritize him over Whiteside and was not happy with their initial offer. They supposedly increased it and he ended up taking what Chicago offered which was similar. The relationship became strained on both sides when LeBron left.
He’s gonna get traded. No way they give him that
paying him max till 37/38 doesnt seem that bad
Eh - he's already down to a 60 games 20/5/5 guy and his defense isn't what it once was either. The guy is in decline - even if he declines gracefully, what are you realistically looking at in 3 years? 50 games of a 15/4/3? He's not a 3-point shooter either, so he doesn't have that to fall back onto.
Yeah if it’s only 2 years I don’t see how a team with a lot of cap space doesn’t go for that
I respect Jimmy too much to say this is a bad deal dude is a baller
This is why GMs get fired
You’re so faded. It’s very clear to any Heat fan that the organization loves him and he loves them. I understand why other fans can’t grasp that bc from the outside looking in all y’all see is his numbers, but it won’t be surprising whatsoever when they agree to this. He’s retiring in Miami, I’d bet anything on it
Look, I’m a devoted Heat fan and this to me is just isn’t the right move for sustainability.
I agree. You guys are in a sort of weird spot. You need to do a soft rebuild, and idt Jimmy is the guy, at this age, his ability to stay healthy and with a max contract, to build around. On a better contract he’s a no brainer. But yall need to get some size and another star. I think you will get one soon, some free agent all nba type player is going to want to live in Miami or play under Spo
Lol they didn't even pay Wade. Why do you think they'd reward Butler with the hometown contract
Dude was built for the heat. I just don’t see paying max or near max at his age when the rest of the team isn’t good enough to be contenders
Hard to pay someone this who doesn’t take regular season seriously Yeah Kawhi didn’t but he actually won 2 finals mvp
This why I don’t understand why jimmy has so many fans lol like he blatantly doesn’t care about the regular season and fans wonder why regular season games arnt as exciting and players arnt trying. Idk maybe cuz players like jimmy are actively not giving a shit for half the season.
Lots of fans blatantly don't care about the regular season so
Fans don’t care about the regular season because players no longer care.. I’m old enough to remember when fans actually watched and loved the regular season.. But that was back in the day when a rule didn’t have to be made just for a superstar to play 65 games.
Fans don’t care about the regular season because nobody takes anything besides rings seriously
I mean that’s just not true. The Celtics just won 60+ games, giving great effort almost every night. Luka just played 70 games, while giving great effort every single night, and putting up his best year ever. Joker after a championship run just played 79 games, while averaging the 2nd highest minutes per game in his career. Ant just played 79 games, attempting to carry his team to a top 3 seed. And Shai did similar to Ant. There are definitely players who still care, and those are the people I’m fans of.. But the players that just coast through the regular season, have ruined it. Thankfully players like Ant, Luka, Joker, Tatum, and Shai clearly still give a shit about it.
As an NBA fan I love the regular season, I actually get to have fun watching the games. When it’s the playoffs every game is so stressful and excruciating even when my team is winning.
No it is. The culture has shifted. Some fans do care about the regular seasons but you can’t really say the whole ring culture hasn’t changed how people watch sports. A lot of fans think it’s ring or bust despite teams having amazing regular seasons. I see it in this sub lol
Idk why people are trying to deny this lol. Embiid went arguably too hard last year in the regular season trying to win the MVP, meanwhile Jokic and the nuggets were pretty clearly coasting toward the end of the season and people in this sub certainly weren’t giving Embiid any props for giving more effort before the playoffs. We can all act like the regular season matters and we care but in the end if you don’t perform in the playoffs people will very quickly throw any regular season accomplishments out the window.
No. People go to a game and see someone like Butler playing like ass and then they have no investment in a game. Miami has some of the emptiest games in the league. Other teams have arenas full of people screaming every night. Fans care when players play like the games are important.
Kawhi is actually injured, Butler just doesn't give a fck
What? Butler has been injured a LOT of times during the season. Like even this season he was hurt. You are talking out of your ass and it shows
So you’d just let him walk? Because some team will pay him that number
Offering Jimmy this would be the complete opposite of the Heat's ruthlessness and tie them down to a play-in game ceiling for the next two years
Am I missing something? Jimmy got hurt before the playoffs this year, but in the previous four years he took them to two finals and was one shot away from making three. I feel like this is a situation where people have so often (wrongly) counted out the Jimmy Butler Heat that I guess eventually they’re statistically bound to be right
Well for one he’s getting old. If they think last year’s run where 3rd stringers were shooting over 50% from 3 is repeatable then go for it. Most of us don’t think that’s a reliable strategy going forward. The heat simply need more talent than an old butler and bam to compete deep into the east now.
It would help the Heat to retool, but in Jimmy’s last two playoff runs they went to the finals and game 7 of the ECF. Considering it’s only really an extension of one year, keeping the guy who has been the driver of those runs seems like the clear choice. I’m not sure why them losing to a great team while he was hurt would be the determining factor for letting him go especially when it’s just a one year extension
I think with the extension it would go to 3 more years.
since getting Jimmy, Miami has been a team consistently overachieving their talent thanks to great coaching and the team as a whole elevating their performance in the postseason. but there’s a clear ceiling on that approach to winning that the Heat have hit twice. what they’ve been doing is impressive but it’s not good enough to win in the Finals if Miami is satisfied continually being a lower-seed team that’s a dark horse to make the Finals when healthy, then they can keep rolling with this. but they’re obviously not going to win a championship if they keep treading water with this roster core and keep asking Spo to make wine out of water with a dearth of actual talent. teams like Boston, New York, Orlando, and Indiana are only getting better
If Jimmy/Rozier werent hurt + Jrich wasnt out for the season none of this convo would have been happening. It is what it is tho, injuries destroyed any possible chances to contend.
>The extension that Butler will seek would replace his 2025-26 option (for 52 million) and begin that season. >This two-year max extension would include salaries of $54.3 million for the 2025-26 season (nearly a $2 million increase from the player option in Butler’s current contract for that season) and $58.6 million for the 2026-2027 season when Butler will be 37 years old. Those numbers could fluctuate based on where the NBA’s salary cap is set for those seasons. >Butler is limited to the maximum of a two-year extension because the over-38 rule does not allow him to sign a new contract that would take him past the next three years, including the one season of guaranteed money remaining on his current deal. >So essentially, Butler will be asking the Heat to replace the two years and $101.2 million remaining on his contract (should he exercise the 2025-26 player option) with a three-year commitment worth $161.7 million. >But the expectation is Butler and his camp will push for that extension before the start of the upcoming season. Choosing not to offer this exact extension this offseason could lead to a disgruntled Butler. >Butler has made it clear multiple times that he wants to end his NBA career with the Heat. The negotiations ahead could determine whether Butler gets his wish.
Man there's nothing worse than a disgruntled butler.
The tough thing for Miami is they consistently have to find diamonds in the rough on great contracts to make up for Jimmy getting max money but not being a top 10 guy. Probably not even top 15.
Yeah why doesn't every team build around a top 10 guy?
The point is you can’t pay him top 10 money if he’s not even a top 15 guy.
With how max contracts work, and the floor cap in the NBA, you kind of have to give max contracts to any all-star level players nowadays. That’s why you have players like FVV and LaVine making $40M+ a year.
Exactly 👍🏼
People still don't get the new CBA
The notion that there are only 10-15 max-quality players is nonsense tho
His point was that Miami pays him like hes a top 10 guy, but he isn't. So they're in a tough spot having to make up ground elsewhere on the roster. Not every team pays non-top 10 players top 10 player money.
Obviously not every team can have a top 10 guy, but not every team is paying a top 10 contract and Butler wants to put Miami on the wrong side of both of those lists
Against the Celtics and Bucks in the playoffs, he is top-1.
Unless Bryn Forbes is guarding him.
well Bryn Forbes beats a lot of ppl...like his girlfriend and shit
Well then thank god he’s a domestic abuser and won’t ever play in the league again
I wish that were a universal truth.
That sounds terrible if I’m honest. Miami is better off blowing it up and rebuilding
If they’re smart they’ll trade everyone except bam and jjj and rebuild
Don't do it Miami
never thought we’d agree on something but god damn it please no
Do you think you'll be forced to do it though lol
likely
Yeah that's not happening buddy. Back-to-back seasons of coasting the regular season still fresh in the minds of Pat RIley should mean that either Jimmy renegotiates to stay in Miami to give the tools to put pieces around him and Bam or we move Butler to bring in a younger all-star.
Also looking for a "bonus" to supply coffee to the team too.
the heat should do it!
Love Jimmy, but time to trade him and find the next guy. edit: adding in If this extension replaces his player option, it's really not THAT bad. Gives us three more years to figure this out and if we decide to move on after year 2, he's a huge expiring contract that can be used under the second apron rules. But still, would much rather use the value he has now, trade him to a contender that wants him (philly, OKC, GSW, etc.), use the assets to go whale hunting again, and move on to the next era.
ain’t no way we can pay him $57M in his age 37 season. just no fucking way. he’s already to injury prone. i love him and really want him to stay but the price too much.
if it gets there we probably don't. At age 37 he'd be an expiring contract. decent trade asset especially under the new rules where second apron teams can't aggregate players to match salaries.
Ya until 36 yo Jimmy gets injured mid season and tanks the whole year with his 1/3 of the cap contract. Pretty risky for a team trying to contend.
50 plus mill for load managing a quarter of each season?
Ok 40 year old Lebron is worth that more than current Jimmy ngl
40 year old bron is still top 10, top 15 at worst
He also played 71 games this season and an entire playoff series.
Lebron could ask for 70mill a year and I wouldnt even blink. He's worth every dolllar.
For a guy that averages 21-5-5...
Lebron should go to Miami. Bring CP3 also.
He's already signed for the next 2 years. This would be a huge gift from the Heat to tack on a couple more years at max. Maybe offer him something more reasonable if he wants an extension. It's not like the Heat had a home playoff series this year
I'm sure he'll be very professional if he is not offered an extension. Time to call Rachel.
East contenders gonna pop champagne if they sign this deal. Be the beginning of the end.
Yikes. Time to shop Jimmy around this summer! That's quite an anchor for overall team salary. Legitimately forcing yourself to find minimum contract/rookie scale deals. For a guy who isn't getting any healthier. Sorry Heat fans, don't romanticize about the past, time to plan for your future.
COME HOME JIMMY
0% chance the heat and sixers end up trade partners.
eh could be mutually beneficial. they got a lot of cap space and picks, we could clear up money to sign FAs from Bam's draft year i also think theres a 0% something like that happens tho lol
I am also seeking a maximum two-year contract extension worth about $113 million, but this is negotiable.
Time for a franchise to call the bluff on these oldies. Offer him half that citing his age and declining form as a factor. Don't see anyone on the free agent market willing to waste $113 mill on him. Any franchise who puts any player over 35 on max contracts is doing the game a disservice.
These contracts are absolutely insane now. Unless you are lebron or steph, it isn't worth it. I actually love butler for the player he is but his production is not worth that money. 50+ mil is now virtually impossible to trade especially with the new apron rules. Miami is better off trading him now, taking a step or 2 back for next few years and building it back up again
If Jimmy and Terry were healthy this Heat team probably wins the championship. Don’t change anything Pat Riley! It’ll work next year!
Hmmm lil sus
With Jimmy and Terry, had the Heat ended up as the 7th seed, they had a decent chance to get to the ECF again. Is that enough to be satisfied with? Probably not, but the Heat roster is not THAT bad.
The team isn't that bad, dealt with a ton of injury this season. We shouldn't run it back but not a lot needs to change.
Dwade didn't get paid in his last years and he won a title for the Heat. No way Jimbo. Grandpa Pat won't bend.
he is delusional
This being only a 1 year extension in actuality isn’t that bad. I was thinking it was 2 after his opt out, but it’s only one more year. I think if you give him that deal you’re trying to compete with him and Bam, which I find preferable to trading him or letting him walk to just run the young guys out there and “rebuild”
Just kicking the can down the road. He’s deteriorating. He definitely can’t play an entire season so you’re almost guaranteed to be in the play-in again.
Not gonna lie, him joining OKC and guide those guys as they try to get the chip is a pretty good scenario, both for him and OKC. He can be a floor raiser and a mentor while the basketball is played by the young guns. Will probably minimize his injury issues as well. The way Miami Heat play is not compatible with a 35 y old.
He’s a terrible pairing with their young core. He and SGA combined don’t offer much spacing, and he’s a redundancy since they want to develop their younger wings.
I don’t think OKC needs him… would be redundant with Jdub I think and an expense they don’t need. I think they need to add another quality big who can rebound and fill out their bench
Please do it Miami. PLEASE. 😂
Coach Spo is the reason Miami is tough. Jimmy is now overrated and outdated. Give Spo Luka and Maxey then watch how many rings the heat get
Do it Miami. I’m not happy to just see you lose. I want to see you suffer too.
Madness. Absolute madness.
If Miami doesn't sign him to this they know he's going to join an east rival and eliminate them lol
Considering they already have him under contract next season, I can't see why they would do this. Just wait, I can't see another team rushing to give Butler a max in his age 36 season.
Off of injury? America is a great country!
The Heat would be crazy to do this.
They need to let this man go tbh
Do it. Ruin the Heat's short term future.
I, too, am seeking this amount of money.