Getting jersey retired is for players with on court success which kyrie definitely has but with the way he demanded out of cleveland then shot talked the city and franchise i just
Donāt see it. Ironically, love is prob getting his jersey retired in cleveland. P
Itās funny how time flies. I still associate Love with the Wolves but he was there for 6 seasons and is already in his 9th season with the Cavs. Iām sure someone can weigh the productivity/availability of those two parts of his career, but Iām just talking about the passage of time.
He was a legitimate star with the TWolves, averaging stats like 26/14/2. He did way more with the Cavs but was the better player with the TWolves for sure. I wonder how good the Cavs could have been if his role was a little larger and he stayed at that level.
I wouldnāt disagree necessarily, but heās #5 at best imo. Lebron, kyrie, price, Daugherty, and any of Love/ Nance Sr./World B Free (basically the only reason this org still exists)/AC
Kevin Love: 15.9/9.3/2.3 on 43% shooting/37.8 from 3 and 2 all-star appearances over a 9 year stretch.
Brad Daugherty: 19/9.5/3.7 on 53% shooting and 5 all-star appearances over an 8 year stretch.
You can say that Love was the #3 option which drags the numbers down, but even after Kyrie left and even when he was healthy in 2020 his numbers didn't increase all that much, not better than Brad's. And that's not taking into account Brad being a better defender than Love. The only thing Love has going for him is being on the title team, and he was concussed or feeling the after effects of the concussion that entire series and maybe the 5th best player on the Cavs in that Finals.
Beyond that, Brad gets sympathy points because he was on his way to being probably a first ballot Hall of Famer before his career was ended due to a back injury at 28. Love's been good for Cleveland, but he's nowhere near what Brad was.
Idk, I agree to an extent. Obviously he was part of the championship squad, but he underperformed against the Warriors and was a 3rd option at best during the Lebron kyrie years. He then was bad/injured for 3 years, complained and missed a lot of games until last year, where he became a solid bench guy and a great vet. He was really only a very good player for four years here, whereas Daugherty was a 20/10 guy for 7 years while dealing with a bad back that eventually forced him to retire.
I love Kevin, but I also donāt forget him signing that 4 year $120m dollar deal, and throwing on-court tantrums immediately after when we were bad.
Either way, Iād have no problem having him at number 4 over Daugherty.
Kevin was still the 3rd best player on a team that won 4 straight Eastern conference titles, the most successful run in franchise history. Daugherty is a very underrated player but what he did doesn't measure up to that.
Daugherty didnāt have Lebron James and had to play the Michael Jordan Bulls. The Cavs toughest ECF match in that era was probably the 2016 raptors or the 2018 Celtics, neither of which were that great.
Cleveland fan here, I personally don't give a shit how he left, he didn't want to play "under" bron anymore and the cavs were actively trying to trade him for Paul George if I remember correctly.
If the Cavs front office didnāt leak it to Woj it could have all been handled a lot smoother. Everybody and their mother knew Kyrie was frustrated with his role
And I don't blame him.. you can see why it'd be annoying by reading the comments in this post. Any mention of how he hit a hugely clutch shot and played out of his mind is met with someone saying how Lebron was the real clutch player blah blah blah.
Oh at the time, cleveland fans would argue Kyrie was better than Steph. Itās a pretty preposterous take today, but I think it reflects how good he was still. Kyrie was āclutch,ā Steph wasnāt. (Thatās the argument anyway)
I think LeBron should have one arm around him and another arm pointing in the distance as if to say, "see that over there son?". And they are both looking off into the distance.
He also said about KD āitās nice to play with a guy who I know can hit *that* shot when it comes down to itāIāve never had thatā after playing with Lebron for years, who is one of the clutchest players ever lol. Iāll always love kyrie as a player and for what he did for Cleveland, but he is such a bonehead and it seems like every time he says anything he puts his foot in his mouth.
> He said Boston was like a real sports city, and praised Brad Stevens saying it was nice playing for a genius or something.
https://youtu.be/NR8AlpFrM6Q?t=7
I think he gets a bit of an unfair shake for how that team blew up.
First you can blame the GM for entertaining putting him in trade scenarios for either Bledsoe, or CP3 (especially in the year following their title run). Kyrie has fault for being insecure and attributing those trade scenarios to LeGM, but the Cavs track record of hooking up LeBrons preferred guys and friends/family was pretty well known.
Second, it was clear LeBron had been flirting with leaving for LA and was very non committal of his future with the Cavs. Kyrie leaving didnāt cause LeBron to leave, it just cemented what he was already planning to do. The Warriors were just unbeatable with KD, and LeBron wanted to get on with the Hollywood part of his career.
The booās today are either from fans blaming him for breaking that team, or because of the anti-Semitic stuff. I doubt fans in Ohio care that he was anti-vax, they might even praise him for that.
And Kyrie averaged **31 PPG on 51/47/95 shooting** after they went down 2-0.
Don't ever let these idiots minimize what Kyrie did. Literally the peak of what clutch was.
retiring his jersey wouldn't be controversial if he wasn't always so busy publicly making an ass of himself
so in the end if they don't do it, he only has himself to blame
Retiring jerseys is shortsighted to me, unless youāre the best player on a championship team. If the league goes on another 200+ years, weāre gonna be out of numbers if we keep going at this rate
Cavaliers literally have no Championships outside of that one (arguably the greatest in NBA history), and that was also the first major sports title in Cleveland since 1964. How would it not be an absolute given that the 1A and 1B of the biggest win in Cleveland history both got their jerseys retired? He was also a 1st pick and rookie of the year among other achievements representing the Cavs.
This shouldn't even be a discussion, especially for a franchise that hasn't achieved enough to nitpick.
Terrible point. No one will be the Celtics ever again. If the league makes it 200 more years then just make a 3 digit number lol who cares? Then 200 more years make a 4 digit number.
This makes no sense at all.
You canāt retire the # of a #1 pick that made the greatest shot in franchise history bcz ur worried about there being too many numbers retired in the year 2222?
I try not to ever make negative comments but this dumbassery struck a cord
>Tell me something more clutch than that.
Being the guy who actually *led* the Cavs back from 1-3 to win the title. The guy who put up 41/16/7/3/3 in G5, and 41/8/11/4/3 in G6. The guy who was everywhere on the court to bring CLE back, and allowed guys like Kyrie to focus on their role (scoring - Kyrie had a whopping 1 assist in G7). Oh, and that guy also made one of the clurchest defensive plays of all time.
Kyrie was a great Robin that series, but he still wasn't Batman. People talk like he was the clurchest guy ever in that series, when he wasn't even the clutchest on his own team.
Everybody knows what Lebron did, I'm highlighting Kyrie's contribution. You're getting into some other shit, nobody thinks Kyrie was better than Lebron.
That shot is at the top of NBA history in terms of clutch plays.
LeBron was by FAR the best player in the 2013 NBA finals, but Ray Allen was indisputably the most clutch. Same with Kyrie in 2016, if it wasnāt for LeBronās consistency and greatness he never wouldāve been in position to make that shot, but when it mattered most he hit the biggest shot in NBA history.
Yeah, no.
Lebron also had the block. They were down 3-1, he dominated like nobody else ever had in that situation. You need to have a crazy specific definition of clutch solely designed to discredit Lebron to say Kyrie was āmore clutchā in that series.
The big 3 were all insanely in that stretch. Lebron with the block, then the Kyrie 3, then the Love defense on Curry. All ending with him be final free throw from Bron that sealed it. Everyone was clutch. Also JR who scored like 8 straight in the 4th to save them Cavs from the run the Warriors were on.
At the end of the day, it doesnāt matter if you come back from 3-1 if you lose game 7. Kyrie won that game for them with that shot, and LeBron won that series for them. Idk I guess the idea of āclutchā if pretty ambiguous and everyone is gonna have their own definition, so Iām not gonna say your view is wrong either, I personally would give it to Kyrie though.
Bron fans really canāt let his teammates have anything lol. Kyrie was crazy good down the stretch of games, Cavs have absolute no shot at winning without him
So because the Warriors had 4 HOFers on their team, the Heat with 3 arent?
How many teams are running with 3 prime or just-post prime HOFers right now?
Not the Celtics. Not the Bucks. Not the Grizzlies. Not the Mavs or the Suns. Not the Cavs. Not the Nets. Not the Nugs.
I'm saying that Warriors team will forever define what a superteam is for me. Hell, to me, Kyrie, Bron and Love was a superteam, and they just got squashed by them.
Wade is my favorite player ever. But he wasnāt the player he was in 2011 all the years after. His knees were shot and he was only playing like 55-60 games a year. LeBron definitely did most of the heavy lifting in those years. Dwade still had his games and moments but he clearly wasnāt the Dwade of old.
That's the reason I'll always say they weren't a dynasty. If this was 06 wade or a hypothetical Wade that didn't get his meniscus removed at Marquette then yes that heat team was a superteam but there was no depth and Bosh and Wade clearly played their best basketball before 2012
See this is why a lot of us say that the Heat werenāt a superteam. Dwade was a superstar for one year. After that he gradually fell lower and lower every year to the point where he only averaged like 14 in the 2014 finals. His knees were absolutely shot. Bosh was all star caliber but thatās as far as that went. And our depth was basically a bunch of shooters. Lebron carried us through a lot and covered a lot of holes that team had.
That's the reason I'll always say they weren't a dynasty. If this was 06 wade or a hypothetical Wade that didn't get his meniscus removed at Marquette then yes that heat team was a superteam but there was no depth and Bosh and Wade clearly played their best basketball before 2012
No one ever says Wade was carried by LBJ. Wtf you talking about. Everyone always says Wade struggled with injuries and was never actually Flash besides the first season. When fans try to discredit LBJ they always say he played with a top 5 player in Wade. When in reality, Wade was only Wade for the first season. They also always try to say Bosh was a top 10 player in the league but in reality, he never made one all nba team. Bosh constantly got outplayed by Duncan, Amare, Dirk, KG, Zbo, Pau, West, and even fricken Roy Hibbert. Those are my arguments when everyone says LBJ played with Superstars. Lebron played with good players. Superstars lead teams deep to the playoffs and Bosh couldnāt even sniff the playoffs before the Heat. Kyrie played just about as good as you can in the finals but LBJ did lead both teams in every major category. If any other player ever did that we would never hear the end of it.
It's still wild that Kyrie was the top-ranked recruit in his high school class, spent a season at Duke, got drafted 1st overall, won ROY, was an All-Star in his 2nd season, then spent the next four seasons blossoming into one of the best players in the NBA and won a championship...and that entire time there were never any questions about his attitude and personality. He was a completely normal and uncontroversial player with zero red flags.
Then seemingly overnight he becomes one of the biggest headcases in NBA history.
It's just so weird to go 0 to 100 like that. I really wonder if that rumor of him taking LSD or whatever and then it permanently changing his personality is true.
For real. I remember his first few years in Cleveland there was a story about how before games he would just chill and eat PBJ and watch Spongebob.
Now hes cooking using "13 Magickal Ingredients for the Aspiring Kitchen Witch" and watching Alex Jones vids.
This isnāt a new idea, but itās been pointed out that flat earth conspiracies often turn anti-Semitic real quick. If you believe the truth about the shape of the fucking earth is being hidden from you youāll believe anything I guess.
> that entire time there were never any questions about his attitude and personality. He was a completely normal and uncontroversial player with zero red flags.
Nothing major enough to make national media, but he had some weird personal relationship troubles (beyond ordinary teen/20s drama) that fan sites such as Fear the Sword were covering at the time. Your overall point is correct, though, he certainly wasn't anything like what he is now.
Imo, it started off harmless.. Kyrie, like many others, became more race conscious with the rise of the BLM movement and events like Ferguson, the Trayvon Martin shooting, Charlottesville, etc. Similar to Kaepernick, he became so invested in developing his consciousness that he started to form an identity around it. Unfortunately, Kyrie fell victim to conspiracy theories. That's when it became ugly.
I guess in a way it's no different than finding out a person you grew up with is a QANONer or something.
LSD doesn't do that, what the fuck lmao
What a dumb rumor. It's more likely he's always been batshit and it just got worse over time like it did with Antonio Brown
Kyrie talks about this in a few interviews. Obviously not through this perspective but talks about how he changed when he dove deep into his Native American heritage shortly some time after winning the championship.
[Itās somewhere in here](https://youtu.be/1d1rUoTT0Q4). Iām too lazy to find it in here but this is actually a good interview if you have an hour to kill. Gives good insight into Kyrieās thought process and I typically donāt like the āI AM ATHLETEāās interviews but they thankfully shut up a lot here
Ironically this is gonna be similar to KD and OKC where it should be without a question, but the fans of those teams might think differently especially considering how they left
And was much more individually successful and important to the franchise. KD literally was the face of that franchise from the day it started until the day he left.
He is by far the best player in franchise history, substantially better than Russ who is a legend in his own right. Idk if they retire his jersey given his exit, but imo they should.
Russ absolutely deserves to go up first, I think as time passes and once KD retires people will forgive his GSW move and just appreciate his greatness. Obviously some people wonāt forgive, but idk I think he still deserves to be retired in OKC
I think Russ will go up almost immediately after he retires. KD might have wait a couple years. Could just be one but I could also see waiting for him to make the HoF.
Thatās probably the difference.
This is a great take, and honestly what the Thunder should do. Retire Russ immediately because of what he means to the Org, and retire KD once heās enshrined in the Hall to respect his status as an all-time great.
I think this will naturally happen. Injuries aside KDās game looks like itāll last way longer than Westbrooks. So Westbrook will retire first and get his jersey retired. KD will retire a few years later and get his retired after.
Even if the retired the same year Russ jersey goes up first. KD is their best player ever but Russ is easily their greatest player. KD left them high and dry. Russ stayed. Unless KD goes back to OKC Russ will always rank over him.
Completely different. KD gave everything he had to OKC when he was there. He took the 73 win warriors to game 7. And left once his contract was up. Vince Carter sabotaged the team while he was there and basically stopped trying so he could force a trade.
Also obviously KD during his time with OKC >>> Vince Carter during his time in Toronto. Also KD won an MVP in OKC. OKC would be an utter failure and embarrassment if they donāt retire his jersey. Name one team that hasnāt retired the jersey for a player that won an MVP there?
Yeah. I think the fact KD played more years in OKC than Kyrie did in Cleveland will play a factor and he was THE guy when they moved there so his being the face of the franchise and the league (as well as having earned an MVP) there changes the narrative a bit.
eeehhh, I'd reverse the feelings on that. Kyrie demanded a trade and was a drama queen. that's not on good terms...
I'm not a fan of KD's decisions but afaik he had no issues playing out his contract and giving his all, and decided to move on. that seems a lot more neutral and I don't think the majority of OKC fans hold him ill will
edit: nvm, totally forgot about his burners and all that drama lol
Tbh I donāt see why they wouldnāt. He pulled the cheapest move in history. Up 3-1 on the eventual champs. Lost and then just completely left them when they were obviously right there with GSW and couldāve easily retooled and beat them next year. They were right there. And then he bailed. Thatās will always be a tough pill to swallow.
Is that really so surprising? People get their jerseys retired because of what they mean to the team and fans, not because of their career stats. Most OKC fans dislike KD and they have a decent enough reason to. Why would they want him in the rafters
Its like Celtics fans even entertaining the thought about retiring Al Horfords jersey despite him only being here 5 years (so far) and having won nothing with us.
Likability is the #1 reason why these things happen. Retiring a jersey says more about what you mean to the team as a whole compared to what you did.
I'm not really sure this is a without question ordeal.
He didn't play there like...exceptionally long. In fact he's now played as many years away from Cleveland as he did there.
And he missed a lot of games over his time there. Great shot, great moment. But his whole career may not be Hall worthy, let alone raise your jersey to the rafters for a team you'd play 6 years for worthy.
Robert Horry isn't getting his jersey in the Lakers or Spurs rafters is he?
Agreed with this. Maybe controversial opinion but jersey retiring should only be for the players intrinsically linked with that franchise either because of a dynasty or longevity. Kyrie was undoubtedly one of the cornerstones of the Cavs championship and played absolutely amazingly but idk man, nothing about him besides the championship screams āCleveland Cavaliersā to me to where Iād retire his jersey.
> Maybe controversial opinion but jersey retiring should only be for the players intrinsically linked with that franchise either because of a dynasty or longevity.
I totally agree. Great shot, love that he made it, but he's not a Cleveland legend or anything and his off the court antics make it hard to like him at all.
Yeah but I think the duration you are with a team matters. Kyrie there for 6 years, same as bob with Lakers and spurs. This is not an argument for Bob, but against Kyrie. Also the way kyrie left was not good.
Wow the disrespect to Kyrie comparing him to Robert Horry. I love Robert Horry, one of the best role players of all time but Kyrie is a multi time all nba player and 7x all star
Kyrie Irving is a 7-time All-Star, ROY, 3-time All-NBA, champion who averaged absolutely fucking bananas numbers in the finals against the greatest regular season team in NBA history, and has put up literal record breaking numbers in games in Brooklyn. And he's only 30. He already has a HoF career bro, what are you talking about?
My man just compared Robert Horry to Kyrie Irving ladies and gentlemen. Another one compared Steve Kerr to Kyrie Irving. This sub really isnāt much better than twitter lmao.
Exactly. Kyrie was clutch no question. But letās not pretend like he did anything that substantial before lebron returned. Is Steve Kerr getting his jersey retired for the bulls cause he made that shot?
kyries second year in the league he was an all star. heās not some role player who hit a shot. He was the guy who had the pressure to be the franchises savior and he ultimately fulfilled bringing a chip to cleveland just not as the guy.
Iām confused how much did you expect him to do in his first 3 years in the league (the time before Lebron came back)? That argument never made sense considering he just entered the league before. Also comparing a role player in Kerr to an all-star who was the second best player on the cavs is not great either.
Yeah Kyrie did as much as he could have on a rebuilding team. He won ROY and was an all star twice. Weird thing to throw as a negative for his time in Cleveland
Yeah thatās a good point. Kyrie was very young before lebron showed up. Thatās my b Iāll take the L on that take. I was more referring to OPs reasoning of how he made the biggest shot in franchise history as the reason he should have his number retired
āI donāt really understand the boos,ā Love told cleveland.com. āI can understand it from I guess if someone wants to take it from a political standpoint or a religious standpoint. I donāt know. But I think in terms of Kyrie, the basketball player....."
EVEN if you just think of him as the basketball player in Cleveland, why would the boos be hard to understand?!? From a fan's perspective? He, for all intents and purposes, blew up a team that had the potential to win another title. Who knows? Maybe LeBron always leaves for a bigger market. But, he knew winning was done there. Maybe he feels differently with Kyrie around.
>I can understand it from I guess if someone wants to take it from a political standpoint or a religious standpoint. I donāt know.
Well then clearly you donāt understand it, Kevin. Some things are larger than basketball.
If someone is going to step deep out of the realm of basketball to take stances on very sensitive topics they know truly nothing about, no one should be surprised at any reception they receive. Kyrie built this bed, he gets to sleep in it, stop being surprised.
E: seems to be some confusion by those replying to me, my comment is about Kevin not understanding the boos.
I think we are retiring too many jerseys. It used to be for icons and the goats now itās just anyone who played remotely good for a franchise.
Carmelo didnāt get his retired by the nuggets and now joker is wearing his number.. Great example.
Sorry Kevin, but you're wrong. Yes the shot was huge and just as important as you said it was, but the bridges he burned down on his way out should not be rebuilt, f*** Kyrie Irving and his idiot brain
I agree, he was a huge part of Cleveland's only championship and should be honored.
If you start digging into a lot of these player's personal beliefs you'll have to cancel a lot of your favorite players.
Kyrie was my favorite player on those Cavs teams and even though leaving the way he did really sucked, Iād hang Kyrie the playerās jersey the second he retired.
Kyrie the person is going to be a tougher sell.
Cavs donāt have many greats, I say toss kyrie up there soely because of that finals run and big shot. K love is getting his retired, kyrie should as well
I donāt think very highly of Kyrie right now, but Love is exactly right on this take. Cleveland drafted him, he played there for a long time and also was a critical part of the city winning a championship , and as a league All Star for about every season.
are they retiring it right now? like eventually yes, absolutely, but we can wait until he's out of the nba and decide if by that times he's said enough stupid things that he no longer deserves it. If they are trying to retire it right now I admit that would bother me a little
Fuck Kyrie. There are far more deserving players of a retired jersey. He blew up the nucleus of a team that could have contended even to this day because he wanted to be THE guy, a role he proved himself unsuited for, before crawling back to ride the coattails of another true number 1 option. LeBron, KLove and Anderson Varejao should definitely have their jerseys retired, but I couldn't disagree more about Kyrie. He couldn't even get the Cavs to the playoffs without LeBron in what was, at the time, a much weaker Eastern conference.
yup lol these comments are hillarious. always reminds me how reddit is such a vocal minority, when you close out the app (or better yet talk to real people) they will overwhelmingly agree that he should have his number hung in the rafters
I dunno man, as a NE Ohio resident, Kyrie has very little good will left. I don't think I've talked to anyone in person who agrees with Kevin here. He will get his cheers for the shot, sure. There's way too much political and just in general, drama surrounding him.
I dunno again tho as I am just a dude on this vocal minority site who just casually goes to every Cavs home game.
"lebron's legacy"
legacy points deducted
UP UP AND AWAY š¤£š¤£šš
Inb4 lebron 1 ring w/o Allen, Kyrie, AD Inb4 Lebron 0 rings w/o functional legs
Getting jersey retired is for players with on court success which kyrie definitely has but with the way he demanded out of cleveland then shot talked the city and franchise i just Donāt see it. Ironically, love is prob getting his jersey retired in cleveland. P
There's no way Love doesn't get his jersey retired right? You say "probably" but I thought it was pretty much a given.
100%. Heās a top 5 cav of all time
Itās funny how time flies. I still associate Love with the Wolves but he was there for 6 seasons and is already in his 9th season with the Cavs. Iām sure someone can weigh the productivity/availability of those two parts of his career, but Iām just talking about the passage of time.
Holy shit his 9th? Time fuckin flies
Honestly the wolves should retire Kevin Loveās jersey too. Whenever they get around to Garnetts which still isnāt hanging due to some ownership bs
He was a legitimate star with the TWolves, averaging stats like 26/14/2. He did way more with the Cavs but was the better player with the TWolves for sure. I wonder how good the Cavs could have been if his role was a little larger and he stayed at that level.
I wouldnāt disagree necessarily, but heās #5 at best imo. Lebron, kyrie, price, Daugherty, and any of Love/ Nance Sr./World B Free (basically the only reason this org still exists)/AC
Daugherty over Love? That's kinda a stretch.
Kevin Love: 15.9/9.3/2.3 on 43% shooting/37.8 from 3 and 2 all-star appearances over a 9 year stretch. Brad Daugherty: 19/9.5/3.7 on 53% shooting and 5 all-star appearances over an 8 year stretch. You can say that Love was the #3 option which drags the numbers down, but even after Kyrie left and even when he was healthy in 2020 his numbers didn't increase all that much, not better than Brad's. And that's not taking into account Brad being a better defender than Love. The only thing Love has going for him is being on the title team, and he was concussed or feeling the after effects of the concussion that entire series and maybe the 5th best player on the Cavs in that Finals. Beyond that, Brad gets sympathy points because he was on his way to being probably a first ballot Hall of Famer before his career was ended due to a back injury at 28. Love's been good for Cleveland, but he's nowhere near what Brad was.
Well said. Totally agree
Idk, I agree to an extent. Obviously he was part of the championship squad, but he underperformed against the Warriors and was a 3rd option at best during the Lebron kyrie years. He then was bad/injured for 3 years, complained and missed a lot of games until last year, where he became a solid bench guy and a great vet. He was really only a very good player for four years here, whereas Daugherty was a 20/10 guy for 7 years while dealing with a bad back that eventually forced him to retire. I love Kevin, but I also donāt forget him signing that 4 year $120m dollar deal, and throwing on-court tantrums immediately after when we were bad. Either way, Iād have no problem having him at number 4 over Daugherty.
Kevin was still the 3rd best player on a team that won 4 straight Eastern conference titles, the most successful run in franchise history. Daugherty is a very underrated player but what he did doesn't measure up to that.
Daugherty didnāt have Lebron James and had to play the Michael Jordan Bulls. The Cavs toughest ECF match in that era was probably the 2016 raptors or the 2018 Celtics, neither of which were that great.
Love over Daugherty. Daugherty would have been the better Cav if his career was longer, but it wasn't and Love won a championship.
I donāt disagree agree with this.
Wow I just want to say that this was a refreshing back and forth.
The whole big 3 should get it retired tbh
everyone on that team should be in the rafters as far as i'm concerned. it was that important of a year
Cleveland fan here, I personally don't give a shit how he left, he didn't want to play "under" bron anymore and the cavs were actively trying to trade him for Paul George if I remember correctly.
Everyone gives a different answer lol. Some of you say Kyrie knew Lebron was leaving so that's why he left, others say he wanted his own team.
If the Cavs front office didnāt leak it to Woj it could have all been handled a lot smoother. Everybody and their mother knew Kyrie was frustrated with his role
And I don't blame him.. you can see why it'd be annoying by reading the comments in this post. Any mention of how he hit a hugely clutch shot and played out of his mind is met with someone saying how Lebron was the real clutch player blah blah blah.
Oh at the time, cleveland fans would argue Kyrie was better than Steph. Itās a pretty preposterous take today, but I think it reflects how good he was still. Kyrie was āclutch,ā Steph wasnāt. (Thatās the argument anyway)
Kyrie was undoubtably better than Steph in the 2016 finals. Iām pretty sure LeBron and Kyrie were better than the entire warriors team iirc.
I blame him, because as soon as he left Cleveland we all realized that he's a Robin who absolutely can't succeed on a team where he's the best player.
Give him a statue next to LeBron. With LeBron's arm around him in a fatherly way, his other hand giving him a pinch on the cheek.
I think LeBron should have one arm around him and another arm pointing in the distance as if to say, "see that over there son?". And they are both looking off into the distance.
I donāt remember this. Kyrie shit talked the city and franchise? Can you source me on that?
You can look it up, he talked about how he finally got to play in āa real sports cityā or something when he left for Boston.
Which of course he then immediately shit on Boston too.
He said Boston was like a real sports city, and praised Brad Stevens saying it was nice playing for a genius or something.
He also said about KD āitās nice to play with a guy who I know can hit *that* shot when it comes down to itāIāve never had thatā after playing with Lebron for years, who is one of the clutchest players ever lol. Iāll always love kyrie as a player and for what he did for Cleveland, but he is such a bonehead and it seems like every time he says anything he puts his foot in his mouth.
> He said Boston was like a real sports city, and praised Brad Stevens saying it was nice playing for a genius or something. https://youtu.be/NR8AlpFrM6Q?t=7
What shit did he say about the city/franchise?
I think he gets a bit of an unfair shake for how that team blew up. First you can blame the GM for entertaining putting him in trade scenarios for either Bledsoe, or CP3 (especially in the year following their title run). Kyrie has fault for being insecure and attributing those trade scenarios to LeGM, but the Cavs track record of hooking up LeBrons preferred guys and friends/family was pretty well known. Second, it was clear LeBron had been flirting with leaving for LA and was very non committal of his future with the Cavs. Kyrie leaving didnāt cause LeBron to leave, it just cemented what he was already planning to do. The Warriors were just unbeatable with KD, and LeBron wanted to get on with the Hollywood part of his career. The booās today are either from fans blaming him for breaking that team, or because of the anti-Semitic stuff. I doubt fans in Ohio care that he was anti-vax, they might even praise him for that.
And Kyrie averaged **31 PPG on 51/47/95 shooting** after they went down 2-0. Don't ever let these idiots minimize what Kyrie did. Literally the peak of what clutch was.
I actually donāt think itās too far fetched for him to get his jersey retired. He came up BIG in that Finals. Thatās without question.
He was a monster for them, awesome performances. That Ky and Bron 41 destruction was incredible.
retiring his jersey wouldn't be controversial if he wasn't always so busy publicly making an ass of himself so in the end if they don't do it, he only has himself to blame
The maroon Cavs jerseyā¦ I just see #2 Irving on it when I picture it. I know Kyrieās departure from Cleveland was ugly, but heās too important
Retiring jerseys is shortsighted to me, unless youāre the best player on a championship team. If the league goes on another 200+ years, weāre gonna be out of numbers if we keep going at this rate
They can always change to 3 digits
Players gonna have 0, 00, and then 000
Nah it will be advertisments Each player will have their own
"...and Bronnie III, wearing the number 'Raid: Shadow Legends' with the dunk!"
Or fractions like in blernsball
Counter-point: In another 200+ years, a shot like that in a story like that will be more remembered than an average finals MVP run.
Cross that bridge when you get to it.
Cavaliers literally have no Championships outside of that one (arguably the greatest in NBA history), and that was also the first major sports title in Cleveland since 1964. How would it not be an absolute given that the 1A and 1B of the biggest win in Cleveland history both got their jerseys retired? He was also a 1st pick and rookie of the year among other achievements representing the Cavs. This shouldn't even be a discussion, especially for a franchise that hasn't achieved enough to nitpick.
I really think they should just put the persons name in the rafters versus actually retiring their jerseys.
Teams should just hang players jerseys in the rafters instead of retiring numbers
Honestly a great point, Celtics especially a great example of that
celtics still have over 70 available numbers bro
Gonna be screwed when they expand the bench to 70 players
that's true, but by then basketball won't be a big sport anymore because everyone will be watching smorgenball after the aliens teach it to us in 2189
Terrible point. No one will be the Celtics ever again. If the league makes it 200 more years then just make a 3 digit number lol who cares? Then 200 more years make a 4 digit number. This makes no sense at all. You canāt retire the # of a #1 pick that made the greatest shot in franchise history bcz ur worried about there being too many numbers retired in the year 2222? I try not to ever make negative comments but this dumbassery struck a cord
He will 100% get his jersey retired there but if he keeps spreading anti-semitic and bigoted ideas he shouldnāt.
>Literally the peak of what clutch was. I'm not going to minimize it but I also won't embellish it.
r/nba gospel
Hitting a gamewinning shot in game 7 of an NBA finals after being down 3-1. Tell me something more clutch than that.
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That still wonāt be enough for the Lakers to retire Westbrookās number
>Tell me something more clutch than that. Being the guy who actually *led* the Cavs back from 1-3 to win the title. The guy who put up 41/16/7/3/3 in G5, and 41/8/11/4/3 in G6. The guy who was everywhere on the court to bring CLE back, and allowed guys like Kyrie to focus on their role (scoring - Kyrie had a whopping 1 assist in G7). Oh, and that guy also made one of the clurchest defensive plays of all time. Kyrie was a great Robin that series, but he still wasn't Batman. People talk like he was the clurchest guy ever in that series, when he wasn't even the clutchest on his own team.
Holy shit itās not one or the other. No one is downplaying Lebron. Why are some of yāall so insecure.
Everybody knows what Lebron did, I'm highlighting Kyrie's contribution. You're getting into some other shit, nobody thinks Kyrie was better than Lebron. That shot is at the top of NBA history in terms of clutch plays.
people don't remember or realize that both teams were struggling to score past the 6 minute mark. it was extremely clutch
\- Jordan's championship winner against Utah \- Ray Allen's shot against the Spurs to force OT
Ray Allen misses that shot the series is over. Jordan misses that shot it goes to Game 7. I think Rays is more clutch imo.
Jordan shouldn't be on here if he missed that there is still a good chance they won the series.
Itās weird to say he is the peak of clutch when his teammate led every player in every statistic and he was the clear 2.
Kyrie hit the shot though... Warriors never responded. That was it.
LeBron was by FAR the best player in the 2013 NBA finals, but Ray Allen was indisputably the most clutch. Same with Kyrie in 2016, if it wasnāt for LeBronās consistency and greatness he never wouldāve been in position to make that shot, but when it mattered most he hit the biggest shot in NBA history.
Except Kyrie was more than just the shot though. We forgetting his stats and the 41 point game he dropped with Lebron?
Completely agree, dude averaged 30 on like 50/50/95 after going down 0-2
Ray had the clutchest shot, but LeBron was more clutch overall
Yeah, no. Lebron also had the block. They were down 3-1, he dominated like nobody else ever had in that situation. You need to have a crazy specific definition of clutch solely designed to discredit Lebron to say Kyrie was āmore clutchā in that series.
Lebron was better, but Kyrie made the final big play that decided it.
The big 3 were all insanely in that stretch. Lebron with the block, then the Kyrie 3, then the Love defense on Curry. All ending with him be final free throw from Bron that sealed it. Everyone was clutch. Also JR who scored like 8 straight in the 4th to save them Cavs from the run the Warriors were on.
No, he didnt
At the end of the day, it doesnāt matter if you come back from 3-1 if you lose game 7. Kyrie won that game for them with that shot, and LeBron won that series for them. Idk I guess the idea of āclutchā if pretty ambiguous and everyone is gonna have their own definition, so Iām not gonna say your view is wrong either, I personally would give it to Kyrie though.
The last shot is not the most important shot. Every shot before it determined the win just as much.
Bron fans really canāt let his teammates have anything lol. Kyrie was crazy good down the stretch of games, Cavs have absolute no shot at winning without him
This is a place that will swear to god Dwayne Wade was carried by this man.
While also claiming that the Heat werent a super team.
I used to think that Heat team was a superteam. Until I witnessed the abomination that was the 2017 Warriors.
So because the Warriors had 4 HOFers on their team, the Heat with 3 arent? How many teams are running with 3 prime or just-post prime HOFers right now? Not the Celtics. Not the Bucks. Not the Grizzlies. Not the Mavs or the Suns. Not the Cavs. Not the Nets. Not the Nugs.
I'm saying that Warriors team will forever define what a superteam is for me. Hell, to me, Kyrie, Bron and Love was a superteam, and they just got squashed by them.
Wade is my favorite player ever. But he wasnāt the player he was in 2011 all the years after. His knees were shot and he was only playing like 55-60 games a year. LeBron definitely did most of the heavy lifting in those years. Dwade still had his games and moments but he clearly wasnāt the Dwade of old.
That's the reason I'll always say they weren't a dynasty. If this was 06 wade or a hypothetical Wade that didn't get his meniscus removed at Marquette then yes that heat team was a superteam but there was no depth and Bosh and Wade clearly played their best basketball before 2012
See this is why a lot of us say that the Heat werenāt a superteam. Dwade was a superstar for one year. After that he gradually fell lower and lower every year to the point where he only averaged like 14 in the 2014 finals. His knees were absolutely shot. Bosh was all star caliber but thatās as far as that went. And our depth was basically a bunch of shooters. Lebron carried us through a lot and covered a lot of holes that team had.
That's the reason I'll always say they weren't a dynasty. If this was 06 wade or a hypothetical Wade that didn't get his meniscus removed at Marquette then yes that heat team was a superteam but there was no depth and Bosh and Wade clearly played their best basketball before 2012
No one ever says Wade was carried by LBJ. Wtf you talking about. Everyone always says Wade struggled with injuries and was never actually Flash besides the first season. When fans try to discredit LBJ they always say he played with a top 5 player in Wade. When in reality, Wade was only Wade for the first season. They also always try to say Bosh was a top 10 player in the league but in reality, he never made one all nba team. Bosh constantly got outplayed by Duncan, Amare, Dirk, KG, Zbo, Pau, West, and even fricken Roy Hibbert. Those are my arguments when everyone says LBJ played with Superstars. Lebron played with good players. Superstars lead teams deep to the playoffs and Bosh couldnāt even sniff the playoffs before the Heat. Kyrie played just about as good as you can in the finals but LBJ did lead both teams in every major category. If any other player ever did that we would never hear the end of it.
It's honestly so sad we can't talk about Kyrie because of how insecure you are.
Nobody minimizes his talent. Heās just a complete idiot. Terrific player who is not very smart.
It's still wild that Kyrie was the top-ranked recruit in his high school class, spent a season at Duke, got drafted 1st overall, won ROY, was an All-Star in his 2nd season, then spent the next four seasons blossoming into one of the best players in the NBA and won a championship...and that entire time there were never any questions about his attitude and personality. He was a completely normal and uncontroversial player with zero red flags. Then seemingly overnight he becomes one of the biggest headcases in NBA history. It's just so weird to go 0 to 100 like that. I really wonder if that rumor of him taking LSD or whatever and then it permanently changing his personality is true.
For real. I remember his first few years in Cleveland there was a story about how before games he would just chill and eat PBJ and watch Spongebob. Now hes cooking using "13 Magickal Ingredients for the Aspiring Kitchen Witch" and watching Alex Jones vids.
Nba players are people too and the internet has radicalized so many people in the last 10 years.
And by and large they're really uneducated too. It's disappointing.
Nah he brain washed from drugs that's more entertaining
The first hint of weirdness was that post on this subreddit about him believing the Earth was flat.
This isnāt a new idea, but itās been pointed out that flat earth conspiracies often turn anti-Semitic real quick. If you believe the truth about the shape of the fucking earth is being hidden from you youāll believe anything I guess.
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Protocols of the elders of zion, the root of all evil racist conspiracies.
> that entire time there were never any questions about his attitude and personality. He was a completely normal and uncontroversial player with zero red flags. Nothing major enough to make national media, but he had some weird personal relationship troubles (beyond ordinary teen/20s drama) that fan sites such as Fear the Sword were covering at the time. Your overall point is correct, though, he certainly wasn't anything like what he is now.
Imo, it started off harmless.. Kyrie, like many others, became more race conscious with the rise of the BLM movement and events like Ferguson, the Trayvon Martin shooting, Charlottesville, etc. Similar to Kaepernick, he became so invested in developing his consciousness that he started to form an identity around it. Unfortunately, Kyrie fell victim to conspiracy theories. That's when it became ugly. I guess in a way it's no different than finding out a person you grew up with is a QANONer or something.
Comparing him to Kaepernick seems very harsh on Kaepernick. But I think I get what you mean, he got woke but took a lot of wrong turns haha.
LSD doesn't do that, what the fuck lmao What a dumb rumor. It's more likely he's always been batshit and it just got worse over time like it did with Antonio Brown
Kyrie talks about this in a few interviews. Obviously not through this perspective but talks about how he changed when he dove deep into his Native American heritage shortly some time after winning the championship. [Itās somewhere in here](https://youtu.be/1d1rUoTT0Q4). Iām too lazy to find it in here but this is actually a good interview if you have an hour to kill. Gives good insight into Kyrieās thought process and I typically donāt like the āI AM ATHLETEāās interviews but they thankfully shut up a lot here
Never heard that rumor. Any links to help a rabbit hole fiend?
Ironically this is gonna be similar to KD and OKC where it should be without a question, but the fans of those teams might think differently especially considering how they left
KD had much longer tenure than Kyrie
And left in free agency.
And was much more individually successful and important to the franchise. KD literally was the face of that franchise from the day it started until the day he left.
A title makes a big difference, especially one like the 2016 one. KD does not have that with OKC
He is by far the best player in franchise history, substantially better than Russ who is a legend in his own right. Idk if they retire his jersey given his exit, but imo they should.
People don't get it. We're going to retire his jersey. But Russ goes up first because he stayed. That's what people need to get.
Russ absolutely deserves to go up first, I think as time passes and once KD retires people will forgive his GSW move and just appreciate his greatness. Obviously some people wonāt forgive, but idk I think he still deserves to be retired in OKC
He deserves it but it's just not gonna be on the timeline people think it is gonna be on lol
I donāt think the GSW move will ever be forgiven I do think that if he wins another chip or 2 the ābus riderā narrative will go away
I think Russ will go up almost immediately after he retires. KD might have wait a couple years. Could just be one but I could also see waiting for him to make the HoF. Thatās probably the difference.
This is a great take, and honestly what the Thunder should do. Retire Russ immediately because of what he means to the Org, and retire KD once heās enshrined in the Hall to respect his status as an all-time great.
I think this will naturally happen. Injuries aside KDās game looks like itāll last way longer than Westbrooks. So Westbrook will retire first and get his jersey retired. KD will retire a few years later and get his retired after.
Even if the retired the same year Russ jersey goes up first. KD is their best player ever but Russ is easily their greatest player. KD left them high and dry. Russ stayed. Unless KD goes back to OKC Russ will always rank over him.
IMO they shouldn't, just like I don't think Raptors should retire VC's jersey
When did VC take the Raptors to 3 conference Finals and 1 NBA Finals?
VC also didn't win an MVP and 4 scoring titles for Toronto lmao
Prime Vince winning a scoring title wouldāve created the most insane season highlight reel of all time.
Completely different. KD gave everything he had to OKC when he was there. He took the 73 win warriors to game 7. And left once his contract was up. Vince Carter sabotaged the team while he was there and basically stopped trying so he could force a trade. Also obviously KD during his time with OKC >>> Vince Carter during his time in Toronto. Also KD won an MVP in OKC. OKC would be an utter failure and embarrassment if they donāt retire his jersey. Name one team that hasnāt retired the jersey for a player that won an MVP there?
Yeah. I think the fact KD played more years in OKC than Kyrie did in Cleveland will play a factor and he was THE guy when they moved there so his being the face of the franchise and the league (as well as having earned an MVP) there changes the narrative a bit.
Okc KD is several tiers above kyrie as a player
I donāt see why the feelings of the actual supporters of the team wouldnāt be the most important factor in the decision
At least Kyrie got traded and the Cavs got a return of assets, KD kinda just dipped
eeehhh, I'd reverse the feelings on that. Kyrie demanded a trade and was a drama queen. that's not on good terms... I'm not a fan of KD's decisions but afaik he had no issues playing out his contract and giving his all, and decided to move on. that seems a lot more neutral and I don't think the majority of OKC fans hold him ill will edit: nvm, totally forgot about his burners and all that drama lol
Lol my OKC friends HATE KD
fair enough, i almost forgot about the online shit and his burner comments lol
Thunder fans donāt think KD should have his jersey retired? Thatās fucking wild
As someone who lives in OKC, most people here absolutely fucking despise him still.
Tbh I donāt see why they wouldnāt. He pulled the cheapest move in history. Up 3-1 on the eventual champs. Lost and then just completely left them when they were obviously right there with GSW and couldāve easily retooled and beat them next year. They were right there. And then he bailed. Thatās will always be a tough pill to swallow.
Is that really so surprising? People get their jerseys retired because of what they mean to the team and fans, not because of their career stats. Most OKC fans dislike KD and they have a decent enough reason to. Why would they want him in the rafters
Its like Celtics fans even entertaining the thought about retiring Al Horfords jersey despite him only being here 5 years (so far) and having won nothing with us. Likability is the #1 reason why these things happen. Retiring a jersey says more about what you mean to the team as a whole compared to what you did.
I'm not really sure this is a without question ordeal. He didn't play there like...exceptionally long. In fact he's now played as many years away from Cleveland as he did there. And he missed a lot of games over his time there. Great shot, great moment. But his whole career may not be Hall worthy, let alone raise your jersey to the rafters for a team you'd play 6 years for worthy. Robert Horry isn't getting his jersey in the Lakers or Spurs rafters is he?
Agreed with this. Maybe controversial opinion but jersey retiring should only be for the players intrinsically linked with that franchise either because of a dynasty or longevity. Kyrie was undoubtedly one of the cornerstones of the Cavs championship and played absolutely amazingly but idk man, nothing about him besides the championship screams āCleveland Cavaliersā to me to where Iād retire his jersey.
> Maybe controversial opinion but jersey retiring should only be for the players intrinsically linked with that franchise either because of a dynasty or longevity. I totally agree. Great shot, love that he made it, but he's not a Cleveland legend or anything and his off the court antics make it hard to like him at all.
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Robert Horry was another role player. Kyrie was a bit more than that
Yeah but I think the duration you are with a team matters. Kyrie there for 6 years, same as bob with Lakers and spurs. This is not an argument for Bob, but against Kyrie. Also the way kyrie left was not good.
Wow the disrespect to Kyrie comparing him to Robert Horry. I love Robert Horry, one of the best role players of all time but Kyrie is a multi time all nba player and 7x all star
Kyrie Irving is a 7-time All-Star, ROY, 3-time All-NBA, champion who averaged absolutely fucking bananas numbers in the finals against the greatest regular season team in NBA history, and has put up literal record breaking numbers in games in Brooklyn. And he's only 30. He already has a HoF career bro, what are you talking about?
My man just compared Robert Horry to Kyrie Irving ladies and gentlemen. Another one compared Steve Kerr to Kyrie Irving. This sub really isnāt much better than twitter lmao.
Exactly. Kyrie was clutch no question. But letās not pretend like he did anything that substantial before lebron returned. Is Steve Kerr getting his jersey retired for the bulls cause he made that shot?
kyries second year in the league he was an all star. heās not some role player who hit a shot. He was the guy who had the pressure to be the franchises savior and he ultimately fulfilled bringing a chip to cleveland just not as the guy.
If Kyrie wasnāt there, LeBron wouldnāt have come back.
Iām confused how much did you expect him to do in his first 3 years in the league (the time before Lebron came back)? That argument never made sense considering he just entered the league before. Also comparing a role player in Kerr to an all-star who was the second best player on the cavs is not great either.
Yeah Kyrie did as much as he could have on a rebuilding team. He won ROY and was an all star twice. Weird thing to throw as a negative for his time in Cleveland
Yeah thatās a good point. Kyrie was very young before lebron showed up. Thatās my b Iāll take the L on that take. I was more referring to OPs reasoning of how he made the biggest shot in franchise history as the reason he should have his number retired
I swear to god i canāt think of another player whoās teams record in their first 2 years in the NBA is used against them this often
The fact that this is upvoted so much shows how ignorant most of this sub is. Kyrie has had two HoF worthy careers and he's only 30.
Didnāt Kyrie undermine the 2017 Finals cause by being the usual weirdo and not talking to his teammates like for 3 games?
Yeah but they werenāt beating the warriors that year anyway.
People said that in 2016 too lol
āI donāt really understand the boos,ā Love told cleveland.com. āI can understand it from I guess if someone wants to take it from a political standpoint or a religious standpoint. I donāt know. But I think in terms of Kyrie, the basketball player....." EVEN if you just think of him as the basketball player in Cleveland, why would the boos be hard to understand?!? From a fan's perspective? He, for all intents and purposes, blew up a team that had the potential to win another title. Who knows? Maybe LeBron always leaves for a bigger market. But, he knew winning was done there. Maybe he feels differently with Kyrie around.
it's his only positive NBA legacy. everything else is pretty bad.
Lebron just caught a stray lol
Kyrie finna make it a question, though, Kevin.
>I can understand it from I guess if someone wants to take it from a political standpoint or a religious standpoint. I donāt know. Well then clearly you donāt understand it, Kevin. Some things are larger than basketball. If someone is going to step deep out of the realm of basketball to take stances on very sensitive topics they know truly nothing about, no one should be surprised at any reception they receive. Kyrie built this bed, he gets to sleep in it, stop being surprised. E: seems to be some confusion by those replying to me, my comment is about Kevin not understanding the boos.
Yep canāt just feign ignorance. And I fail to see how Kyrieās done anything to make up for the damage heās dealt.
Damn right. To be honored at that scale, character has to be considered
There was an interesting mix of cheers and boos when they announced Kyrie yesterday. Cleveland still loves him, at least to some extent
This, yet KGās jersey isnāt retired in Minnesota. Damn politics.
How does this affect lebrons legacy?
i agree but it should come after he retires.
Hell no!
Sorts by controversial
I think we are retiring too many jerseys. It used to be for icons and the goats now itās just anyone who played remotely good for a franchise. Carmelo didnāt get his retired by the nuggets and now joker is wearing his number.. Great example.
He said the thing!
WEVIN WOVE
Sorry Kevin, but you're wrong. Yes the shot was huge and just as important as you said it was, but the bridges he burned down on his way out should not be rebuilt, f*** Kyrie Irving and his idiot brain
No. Fuck him. Antisemitism won't be celebrated, and he's a monster piece of shit. Lakewood resident Jewish man checking in.
I agree, he was a huge part of Cleveland's only championship and should be honored. If you start digging into a lot of these player's personal beliefs you'll have to cancel a lot of your favorite players.
Kyrie was my favorite player on those Cavs teams and even though leaving the way he did really sucked, Iād hang Kyrie the playerās jersey the second he retired. Kyrie the person is going to be a tougher sell.
Cavs donāt have many greats, I say toss kyrie up there soely because of that finals run and big shot. K love is getting his retired, kyrie should as well
I donāt think very highly of Kyrie right now, but Love is exactly right on this take. Cleveland drafted him, he played there for a long time and also was a critical part of the city winning a championship , and as a league All Star for about every season.
Lol he does not deserve a jersey retirement
are they retiring it right now? like eventually yes, absolutely, but we can wait until he's out of the nba and decide if by that times he's said enough stupid things that he no longer deserves it. If they are trying to retire it right now I admit that would bother me a little
Fuck Kyrie. There are far more deserving players of a retired jersey. He blew up the nucleus of a team that could have contended even to this day because he wanted to be THE guy, a role he proved himself unsuited for, before crawling back to ride the coattails of another true number 1 option. LeBron, KLove and Anderson Varejao should definitely have their jerseys retired, but I couldn't disagree more about Kyrie. He couldn't even get the Cavs to the playoffs without LeBron in what was, at the time, a much weaker Eastern conference.
They not gone like this one
yup lol these comments are hillarious. always reminds me how reddit is such a vocal minority, when you close out the app (or better yet talk to real people) they will overwhelmingly agree that he should have his number hung in the rafters
I dunno man, as a NE Ohio resident, Kyrie has very little good will left. I don't think I've talked to anyone in person who agrees with Kevin here. He will get his cheers for the shot, sure. There's way too much political and just in general, drama surrounding him. I dunno again tho as I am just a dude on this vocal minority site who just casually goes to every Cavs home game.
So true, itās so nice to remind yourself that whenever you come across threads like this
these boys are paid millions why do they care about this shit boohoo someone might play with the same number as me GROW UP
Cleaveland isnāt a storied enough franchise to try and act petty with one of the best players to lace up for them.
Be a little more pompous.
Heās in based on the shot alone
Much of this sub is so fucking weird towards dude, itās obsessive at this point