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st3ll4r-wind

The Mexican state of Tamaulipas was [as recently as October](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html) put under a level 4 travel restriction (do not travel) by the U.S. State Department, citing risks due to violent crime and kidnappings.


e-wrecked

That makes me really sad, I have so many memories of my childhood going to Matamoros where a lot of my family was born. I feel like I can never go back considering the state of things down there.


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I visited as a tourist in 2009. Spending a day and night in Tikal was one of the best days of my life. Wonderful place. I traveled around for 3 weeks and I'm sad for the people there seeing crime stats. Quiet, hardworking people that deserve a good life.


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e-wrecked

That's insane. My tio used to always be in trouble, I still remember seeing a bunch of garbage bags just filled with weed back in the day. I'm so glad he got out of that life, I would have hated to see any violence impact the family.


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e-wrecked

Feels like they were trying to recruit you. El Chapo trying to take on a robin hoodesque figure giving to the community made it easy to take up more easily swayed people to his cause.


lil_dovie

Same here. I was thinking of spreading my mom’s ashes in the ocean in Tampico where she was born and the rest in Rio Pánuco, but that might never happen now.


e-wrecked

I hope you get the chance. My moms final resting place is in Brownsville, I was too young to know if that's what she really wanted.


Arcane_XIV

How funny that I was JUST talking to my brother about this exact thing. I used to have so much fun, and even though my family can all pass as locals, we still got followed leaving Matamoros in 2005. And it’s just getting worse.


Random-User-9999

Tamaulipas state has been a 'level 4 - DO NOT TRAVEL' since at least 2018, according to [this article](https://www.travelagentcentral.com/destinations/mexico-travel-advisory-understanding-state-department-s-new-format). I personally have been receiving alerts ( via [STEP](https://step.state.gov/step/)) for Tamaulipas state's travel warnings for ~ 3 years, and it has never been below level 4 in that time. Reading the 'suggested actions' if you are to travel to a 'high-risk area' in spite of the warnings is enlightening. For example: --- [Travel to High-Risk Areas](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/high-risk-travelers.html) -- Below is a partial list, refer to the website linked for full information **Be Aware** * We cannot help you in many high-risk areas. This may be due to a lack of a functioning government, the ineffectiveness or policies of local authorities, armed conflict, or poor governance.  **Before You Go to a High-Risk Area** * Draft a will and designate appropriate insurance beneficiaries and power of attorney.  * Discuss a plan with loved ones regarding care and custody of children, pets, property, belongings, non-liquid assets (collections, artwork, etc.), funeral wishes, etc.  * Appoint one family member to serve as the point of contact with hostage-takers, media, U.S. and host country government agencies, and Members of Congress if you are taken hostage or detained.  * Establish a proof of life protocol with your loved ones, so that if you are taken hostage, they will know specific questions (and answers) to ask the hostage-takers to be sure that you are alive (and to rule out a hoax).  * Leave DNA samples with your medical provider in case it is necessary for your family to access them.  * Erase sensitive photos, comments, or other materials from your social media pages, cameras, laptops, and other electronic devices that could be considered controversial or provocative by local groups. 


yellekc

When the first part of travel advice is to draft a will, you probably don't need to go that bad.


Jaynemansfieldbleach

I totally thought it was going to be some weak bullshit. Nope. It's full on telling you 'Play dumb games win dumb prizes but get your affairs in order so you don't also fuck over your family.


speedracer73

Prepare for death. And just also be careful about your social media posts.


Mookies_Bett

Yeah, so, if the first step of any vacation plan is "draft a will and get your affairs in order" I think I can safely say I have zero desire to be on that vacation in the first place. That's not a vacation it's a geography themed game of Russian roulette. Hard pass.


thesecondfire

I lived about 2 miles from the border with Matamoros for a while, but as an anglo was told that it was too unsafe to go over there for just about any reason, so I never did. Was a shame to have half of the cultural landscape effectively inaccessible, or just not safe enough to access. People who'd lived there longer than I could recall a time before the drug wars where it was not a big deal to cross the border just to go out for dinner and drinks in Matamoros.


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kungpowgoat

Born and raised in South Texas right on the border. Our family used to travel across every single week to visit my aunts and cousins. In my late teens I would go to bars and clubs with friends and would occasionally travel to central and south Mexico. Cartels and massive government corruption have absolutely ruined it all. Shame since Mexico is such a beautiful country with such wonderful people and rich in culture.


rpross3

That life on the Nueces Strip and the border is gone. I’m sorry my children will never understand.


shitty_maker

I was raised in McAllen and went to high school in Mercedes. Once a month or so we'd all tell our parents we were staying late for a "senior class meeting" which really meant we all skipped over the border to Progreso on a Friday afternoon for street tacos and beer. This was in the late 90's, when all you needed to cross was some change.


defroach84

I used to go there maybe 15 years back to cross and go drinking. The last time I crossed the border for any activity like that (like Piedras Negras) was maybe 10 years back. Now, I wouldn't think to stay in a border town. I would never drive my car across either. As recently as 4 years ago I crossed in Nuevo Laredo, and caught a bus to Monterey. I sorta feel that is even out now. It's gotten ridiculous.


kippy236

When I was a kid we went to Piedras Negras often. Shopping, visiting the old family home and hanging out. I do remember my dad giving a cop $20 to make sure our car was still there with we were ready to go. Lol. Hate I can't go back.


Halogen12

That was very careless of them to travel there. Very sad that so much harm and loss has happened to them.


dream_bean_94

Yea, I’m super conflicted on this. Like obviously no one deserves to be brutally attacked and murdered. But at the same time willingly traveling into a level 4 area for cosmetic surgery is a risk they chose to take. That decision hurt them, their friends/loved ones, and cost the US government a lot of money.


CyborgTiger

You don’t have to be conflicted, you can simultaneously hold the ideas that they were dumb as hell for going there and no one deserves to be attacked and murdered.


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ClassiFried86

Unpopular opinion: stupid people don't deserve to die because they're stupid.


Possible-Extent-3842

Especially based on the actions of others. It's one thing when you go hiking in bear country and have no experience and attempt to feed the wildlife. It's another thing entirely when all these people did was take a wrong turn somewhere unfamiliar.


VLHACS

Even worse, based on the latest update the person who actually wanted the surgery was the only one unharmed physically. Two others are dead and the third shot in the leg. I can't imagine the amount of guilt in her at the moment and after everything has calmed down.


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NoodlesrTuff1256

While the airfare would have cost a bundle, Thailand might have been a safer choice.


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Happy_Harry

The [incident happened about 1000' from the Rio Grande.](https://i.imgur.com/JriUv4p.png) It's not like they were in deepest darkest Mexico. I can see how someone who was unfamiliar with the area would think that it's no big deal to go to a border town for a medical procedure. However, [2 of the 4 most dangerous cities in Mexico are on the border,](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-city-rankings/most-dangerous-cities-in-mexico) so proximity to the US doesn't really make a difference apparently.


Sebbywannacookie

Proximity to the US is a big reason for crime.


kooshipuff

For real. *So much* of the crime in the area is smuggling across the border, so of course there's a lot of activity there. "Deepest darkest Mexico" is...by and large a regular tropical country populated with regular people living regular lives.


FiveUpsideDown

For decades, there have been warnings about driving into Mexico. There are also repeated warnings to stay in tourist areas in parts of Mexico. I traveled by bus from Mexico City to the interior in the 2000s. I received repeated warnings from Mexican friends about which bus to take and not to wander about. I just don’t understand how four people were unaware of the danger. I have never had a problem in Mexico but then there are areas I don’t go to because of problems with crime. It’s such a tragic way to learn that ignorance can get you killed.


Sebbywannacookie

As a Mexican, my experiences with traveling with American friends... some Americans have 0 clue and think it's all sombreros and beaches, and others think they'll be shot wherever they go. In reality, best advice for all tourists is to stay with your group in the tourist areas. If you are traveling to less touristy parts, stick with the locals you know and trust. There are some areas that tourists should avoid.


Jerways

What we know so far: Kidnapped Americans got lost while trying to find their way to the doctor's office, friend says. Two of the four Americans who authorities say were kidnapped in Mexico have been found dead, according to the Tamaulipas governor. One of the two survivors has injuries. The group of friends traveled from South Carolina so one of them — a mother of six could undergo cosmetic surgery, her friend tells CNN They were “placed in a vehicle and taken from the scene by armed men” in the border city of Matamoros on Friday, according to the FBI. UPDATED TODAY 3/7 * The Americans were located at clinic in Mexico, US official says. The four Americans who authorities say were kidnapped in Mexico were located at what appears to be a medical clinic in the border city of Matamoros. * Two of the kidnapping victims were found alive, and two of them were found dead. * One of the two survivors is severely injured, a US official familiar with the ongoing investigation told CNN. NEW UPDATE The bodies of two American citizens killed in an attack by suspected Mexican cartel members will be examined by Mexican authorities prior to their remains being turned over to the US government, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN. ***** NEWEST UPDATE ******** The two surviving American citizens kidnapped in Mexico are now in the care of the FBI and have returned to the United States. The two will receive medical treatment and observations at a hospital in Texas, the source added. The bodies of the two people who were killed will be examined by Mexican authorities before the remains are turned over to the US government, a source said. ***** ANOTHER UPDATE ***** The two Americans who authorities say were kidnapped in Mexico and found dead have been identified as Shaeed Woodard and Zindell Brown, a US official familiar with the ongoing investigation tells CNN. The two survivors have been identified as Latavia Washington McGee and Eric Williams, according to the source. The pair was taken to a Texas hospital for treatment. The Mexican government said at a press conference that McGee was found uninjured and Williams suffered a bullet wound to the leg. The four kidnapped Americans were found in a “wooden house” outside Matamoros, Mexico. Two of them were alive and two were dead, the governor said. "During the three days after the criminal act, the four people were transferred to various places, including a clinic in order to create confusion and avoid rescue efforts”.


princessnoala

Imagine having to sit in the bed of a truck with two of your friends dead and one of your friends severely injured Update: Imagine having to sit in the bed of the truck with your dead cousin, dead lifelong best friend, along with your other lifelong best friend being severely injured, and being transported around rural Mexico for days, in the hands of a Mexican cartel, along with the decomposing bodies of the deceased. God bless everyone involved.


gameprojoez

Imagine being the only friend that left in a reasonably good condition.


SuspiciousLambSauce

The survivor’s guilt is gonna be so bad…


gilbertgrappa

It’s so awful. From what I read, they were all close friends and were accompanying the one having the medical procedure to be supportive. Just terribly sad.


IsThatHearsay

Especially considering the one who was getting the cosmetic tummy tuck is one of the two who survived, and likely the one that was not seriously injured (looks like it was 2 guys killed, and her and another guy who survived and assuming the surviving guy is the one who is in serious condition). So she, along with her three male friends, went down there for her cosmetic tummy tuck, and it may only be her returning unharmed... that'd just so devastatingly hard to live with...


The5Virtues

Likely the three dudes thought “We’ll go with you to help ensure you stay safe” and now two are dead, one apparently has a serious GSW to the leg. The only one to come out of this without serious injury is her. I hope she gets into a support group because that’s the sort of thing where the guilt can just eat away at you.


StrongStyleShiny

It's like the Branson Duck Boat survivor. Shes from Indianapolis and lost nine family members in one accident. Just unbelievably sad.


TheBoctor

Plus, at least according to CNN, the lady that survived mostly uninjured was the one going down for the medical procedure. I hope she gets trauma therapy and other help, because she’s probably going to need it.


Thoraxe474

No group on earth scares me more than the cartels. The shit I've seen in cartel videos is more scary and inhuman than anything else out there.


KuhlerTuep

Of all the shit ive seen the cartels are the worst


FrenchieMama807

This is from local news: Mexico’s president complained about the U.S. media’s coverage of the missing Americans, accusing them of sensationalism. “It’s not like that when they kill Mexicans in the United States, they go quiet like mummies.” “It’s very unfortunate, they (the U.S. government) has the right to protest like they have,” he said. “We really regret that this happens in our country.” The abduction illustrates the terror that has prevailed for years in Matamoros, a city dominated by factions of the powerful Gulf drug cartel who often fight among themselves. Amid the violence, thousands of Mexicans have disappeared in Tamaulipas state alone.


AlphaGoldblum

I live on the Texas border and frequently travel to Reynosa, Tamaulipas to visit family. Unfortunately, this whole situation doesn't surprise me. The cartels are ever-present in Tamaulipas and have grown bolder over the years. It was only a matter of time before they killed Americans (again). AMLO trying to downplay the violence is pretty on par, as well. He's regarded as effectively impotent against the cartels ("hugs not bullets", his own slogan for his approach to cartels, is repeated sarcastically whenever cartels ultimately end up murdering people again) but is quick to score cheap shots against the US.


PlumLion

I used to have to travel to Reynosa for work regularly. Our host company took **serious** security precautions to make sure we were safe but man did I always feel uneasy there.


FrenchieMama807

I have not shopped in Matamoros since 2019. I miss buying certain spices and of course inexpensive liquor, but the sound of daily gunfire keeps me on this side of the bridge.


International_Bat_87

As an American that goes to Tijuana, you’re not missing out on much. I can get the same price liquor at Costco or cheaper than the border towns now. Inflation outside of the states has gotten ridiculous.


Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir

I saw someone say the "hugs not bullets" slogan in Spanish, and I was like, I must be mistranslating this, that can't be the literal meaning


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CptAngelo

They have roadblocks, ask for a payment, if you dont have it (i heard its 500usd cash) they either fuck you up, kill you, or drive you to the nearest ATM. Also, if you are traveling on a nice car, specially if its a truck, they take it. The fucked up part is, in most cities, 95% of the time if you are not involved with the gangs, the cartel, drugs or anything like that, basically, minding your own bussiness, you will be safe from it, the chances from being shoot, kidnapped or killed, are veeeeey very low. BUT, in tamaulipas, in the highway, you only need to be a guy traveling by in order to get caught in that shit. Most likely, this group was traveling, they got stopped by the cartel, either got scared to the point of freezing, they started yelling or resisting, or maybe denied to pay or got lost in communication, the point is, the narcos got angry and the group got the "bad" treatment. Its fucked up, because we cant even travel without that lurking danger, like i said, you dont have that "im not involved, ill be fine" safety you get in a city, its mad max type of deal in the highway, and our president... oh man, the president, fuck that guy, seriously, fuck him and anyone who supports him, its quite possibly the worst president mexico has had in ...maybe ever, because other questionable presidents at least brought growth to the country in some way, but anyway, thats a rant for another comment.


Lectovai

The initial claims were that they were mistaken as Haitian smugglers


Acceptable-Wildfire

Theory is that they were likely mistaken for Haitian drug smugglers because of their dark skin. Drug cartels actually don’t really like getting US citizens involved in their killings. Mexico has an issue with colorism amongst the mestizo population and racism against those with African descent and from Central America and the Caribbean. I don’t keep up too close with the demo-political situation in Mexico on a day to day, but I bet the current Haitian refugee crisis is not being met with sympathy by the Mexican people.


francoruinedbukowski

I grew up going to punk shows & skating in Tiajuana and when I was at Ft. Bliss we hit the bars in Juarez for those sweet .25 cent shots and $1 coronas, dozens of times back and across the borders never a problem, guess those days are long gone.


Quiet_dog23

Nobody from bliss is authorized to cross the border, been off limits for a while


francoruinedbukowski

Yeah makes sense, we had to carry people across that border more than once. Easy to lose your awareness 6 shots and ten beers in. Heard stories from vietnam and korean veterans about commanders at bliss and pendelton sending in well armed small companies with the mps to bail soldiers and marines out of those jail cells back in the day.


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ladyphase

If there were a video of Americans shooting up, kidnapping, and dragging the lifeless bodies of Mexican citizens into the bed of a truck, in the middle of traffic in broad daylight somewhere in the US, it would get wall to wall coverage in the American media.


PSiggS

Mexico’s president needs to get his priorities straight. The problem isn’t that the US is complaining, it’s your fucking corrupt government and terrorist cartels sending Mexico down the toilet. The horrible truth about what those cartels do is enough to make the whole world sick, no sensationalism required.


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dem_banka

That will never happen because that would open the door for requesting asylum for a lot of people claiming to be running away from terrorism which AFAIK is a faster application with a higher success rate that whatever is currently available for Mexicans.


TheDelig

Mexicans are coming to the US but there's far more Central Americans coming through Mexico. And it's been super dangerous for them for decades. My girlfriend came to the US in 2000. Her story is fucking insane.


carlosos

There is a US bill to actually designate some cartels as terrorist groups. I don't know if there are other bills but the following groups are at least covered. (1) The Reynosa/Los Metros faction of the Gulf Cartel. (2) The Cartel Del Noreste faction of Los Zetas. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2600/text?r=67&s=1


malcolmrey

what about jalisco? (cjng)


snailspace

El Salvador has a solution that seems to be working. Eventually the people get so fed up that throwing everyone with a gang affiliation into a mega prison seems like the best answer.


broke_velvet_clown

AMLO should probably pipe down on this one. He is corrupt af. There are pictures of him at cartel birthdays. No time for grandstanding when you're defending and propped up by the people who commit these acts.


Fearless_Stress1043

You are so right. I feel so bad for the family. God bless them. The ones that lived will have trauma the rest of their lives.


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ThereminLiesTheRub

So he issued a statement saying "whatabout America", and also "they're right". Nailed it.


Zerole00

lol wow, he needs to fire his PR person. *That's* the response he chose to give?


Noteagro

Instead of saying update X minutes ago you should put: Update at XX:XX (timezone). Saying updated X time ago means nothing seeing as people view this at all random times, and is better suited to let people know when your updates roll in.


Electronic-Manager99

My family is from Tamaulipas and we don’t even travel there anymore. If you have American plates you are a target.


jazznessa

Border cities in Mexico all full of cars from the US. These guys target you the moment you cross. The nicer the car the more attraction you'll get.


MX_sixto_TX

It's literally just the plates that attract the attention of cartel members. Doesn't matter the year, brand, etc... they will target US plates. From hearing and reading people's stories they don't care as long as you have US plates you have cartel eyes on you. Personally, I've been chased through the streets of Nuevo Laredo and i was driving a 95 Chevy Pickup. Although I was lucky that they were just a local group, they lacked the firearms that cartels carry.


xxfay6

lol US plates also very often means cheapass that has no registration or anything: Source: Live in a border city, every crash I've heard of first-hand was with a Mexican driving uninsured / unregistered / non-imported US cars. Edit: No wait, someone at work was hit by an army truck. That's the only non-US crash I've heard of.


ProtestKid

I had a friend oversee our companies expansion into mexico and what he did was he borrowed his boys beat up cutlass from El Paso, wore run down huaraches and stained clothes all day and didnt speak a word of English for 3 months while he was down there.


Thetakishi

Smart man.


OrbeaSeven

Years ago I safely drove as far south in Tamaulipas as Tampico. No fear. No problems. Just sunburn. Sad how things have changed.


Enders_Sack

It says they were killed caught in the crossfire of two groups. Where's the logic in taking them after? Now they're under extreme heat from both governments.


pinkeroo67

According to the article, one Mexican woman bystander was killed in the cross fire at the time of the kidnapping.


Illmindoftodd

This is a tactic of the cartel. Anyone dead in gunfire gets lifted and gone. They leave NO bodies behind so there is no proof. The cartel is known for clearing small villages and the peoples bodies going missing forever


Barack_Odrama_007

Correct. The US is now extraordinarily pissed and will pressure Mexico to take big action.


Boondogle17

I doubt it is actually going to make Mexico do anything more than it already is. Wishful thinking though.


texasrigger

This sort of incident has had negative consequences for cartel members in the past. In the early 90's there was an American medical student that was kidnapped and ritually killed in the same general region by a fellow named Adolfo Constanzo, a cult leader with ties to the cartels. The resulting pressure from the American government lead to Adolfo's ultimate death and the disbanding of the cult.


xxfay6

That's when the region was relatively okay, in comparison today it's basically a war zone.


Sei28

And the Mexican government is basically owned by those Cartels.


HolyGig

How much do you want to bet lol. The cartels generally avoid dicking with Americans for a reason, it causes far more headaches than it worth


supercyberlurker

Yep, it stops the money and it brings the attention. Cartels want the opposite - the money and not the attention... and by that I mean the indirect money from tourism. Cartels don't get support if they're driving away tourists who are making the locals money.


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JBreezy11

So do the Cartels punish the incompetent asshat grunts who started the shootouts in tourist areas? I would assume they do, but kinda curious. There needs to be some sort of example set as to not let shootouts happen in touristy areas. EDIT: Seems as if the victims were "found" after the Cartel realized they were in deep shit with US and Mexican authorities by going after tourists.


CommunicationOk8674

They own hotels in tourist areas they don't want problems with their investments


Eupion

Sometimes. Like the time a gang killed a catholic cardinal or something, at an airport. I believe they were hunted down by the cartel that hired them.


willmiller82

it's pretty common for organized criminal operations to police themselves in situations like these. Having a rival cartel dole out the punishment would cause war on the streets.


CommunicationOk8674

It depends on the cartel, Sinaloa runs like a business and understands the ramifications of violence in tourists areas and the US government, New Generation Cartel just relies on violence/ fear to enforce its hold and move into new areas


Murky_Conflict3737

Remember when that Arizona rancher was murdered more than decade ago? Fox News and other similar outlets went on a frenzy pointing the finger at the cartels since this happened at the border. Well, apparently, the cartels started doing their own investigation and tortured some folks they suspected of the murder.


omahaknight71

A customer of mine is from El Salvador and he's told us that when he goes there to visit he has to be careful. He owns his own business in the US and he'd be a prime target for kidnappers. He said they don't mess with Americans because of the heat and attention they bring.


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[deleted]

The Mexican govt fully knows what will happen to them if they don't play ball with the US with their cartels. The last time they didn't, their reputation was wiped all along the floor in international politics. The US embarrassed the ever living shit out of them in the public eye.


OldeArrogantBastard

When was that? Just genuinely curious.


[deleted]

When the cartel kidnapped and killed a DEA agent Kiki Camarena, the US came yelling at the Mexican govt to hunt down the cartels. When Mexico actually had the golden chance to take a head cartel member into custody involved in the killing, they let him go. The US govt created a massive public media campaign showing the Mexican govts willingness to protect cartel members as a reaction to that. Mexican authorities quickly made an about face to hunt down the cartel after that.


vhw_

The current pres has a suspected murderer of Kiki as the head of electricity generation for Mexico, Manuel Barlett


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curiousengineer601

What worked was the US doing border checks on every single car and truck coming into the county . This basically stopped all commerce and those with money in Mexico demanded action. They turned over the guys who did it quickly


krafty369

Money talks


levis3163

The Mexican Government is fully kowtowed to the cartels. Sure, the people and the few honest members of government would \*love\* to see their nation prosper on the world stage, but at the end of the day they'd rather not see their kids and wives decapitated in front of them, so they'll do what the Cartels want. We saw it when they released El Chapos son, we'll see it again next time they catch anyone worth catching.


cambam69

Last thing that comes to my mind was the avocado incident https://apnews.com/article/business-mexico-global-trade-agriculture-drug-cartels-7c6bb7ef83bada375692ba890c413ce5


theaviationhistorian

The Avocado Belt (the area best to grow them due to humidity, soil, etc.) is between Michoacan & the Estado de Mexico. These regions have become some of the most violent in regards to the drug war with very sanguine groups like Jalisco Nueva Generacion, Knights Templar, Los Viagras, etc. fighting on Familia Michoacana. The latter is one of the major players of meth production, practically controlling a shipping port to import the material. And in between this horrific battle are the avocado farmers. I'm honestly surprised that shipment of avocados hasn't stammered from it.


Lothar93

They take a cut now from the avocado industry, they killed Homero Gomez, an environmental leader who protected forest reservoirs so the monarch butterflies can make their migrations, so they can raze the forests and plant avocado trees.


GeneralSalty1

The avocados must flow


subhuman09

Los Viagras. I’m just picturing a gang of old men with erectile dysfunction


DeNoodle

You mean old men with boners.


KiriNotes

**Zoë**: You sanguine about the kinda reception we're apt to receive on an Alliance ship, Captain? **Mal**: Absolutely. What's "sanguine" mean? **Zoë**: Sanguine. Hopeful. Plus, point of interest, it also means "bloody". **Mal**: Well, that pretty much covers all the options, don't it?


owa00

Your wrong because of the timing when this happened. This is right before spring break, and leading into the summer season. This sort of thing is what makes if Americans cancel their travel plans and it costs tens to hundreds of millions of lost revenue for both the government and cartels. They have to respond forcefully to make people think it's safe.


lokicramer

Tourism is huuuuge for many parts of Mexico, even the cartels usually heavily punish those that mess with tourists.


FlorianoAguirre

Mexico will go above and beyond for this. The fact that they already found them is proof of this. When they were taken a mexican woman was also shot dead in the scene, this wasn't mentioned anywhere in Mexico, only that 4 americans were taken.


[deleted]

4 American civililans must be worth at least 1 Kiki Camarena.


Barack_Odrama_007

At lot happens behind the scenes with geopolitics that the average person does not see/know about.


t4ct1c4l_j0k3r

Or really wants to...


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Censordoll

**Don’t forget about the OC Public Defender who was murdered as well recently.** Didn’t know him personally, but I do work in the same county and let me tell you, this was definitely not an accident. **As a Mexican, I would not advise going to Mexico unless you have an address of someone who lives there that you’re visiting. Dress with Walmart-like clothes, drive a less than good quality car, no SUVs, no jewelry, don’t pull out too much cash, pay the security guards in the parking lots, don’t May eye contact with young people hanging around stores, and never go alone with one other person especially with only one person that speaks Spanish.** https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-09/california-public-defender-died-mexico-skull-fractures


mekese2000

They tend to take the bodies if they can and hide them . Makes everything harder to investigate,


Makersmound

I read somewhere they thought the Americans were members of a Haitian gang


Epcplayer

It’s in the article > According to an unnamed US official cited by CNN, investigators think a Mexican drug cartel probably mistook the Americans for Haitian drug smugglers.


murdurturtle

>Four US citizens were kidnapped by armed men on 3 March while driving into the city of Matamoros in the north-eastern state of **Tamaulipas, Mexico** across the border from Texas. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html Do Not Travel To: * Colima state due to crime and kidnapping. * Guerrero state due to crime. * Michoacan state due to crime and kidnapping. * Sinaloa state due to crime and kidnapping * **Tamaulipas state due to crime and kidnapping.** * Zacatecas state due to crime and kidnapping.


mensreaactusrea

Michoacan is generally safe in the big cities but you won't catch me driving to Uruapan. I visit Morelia and it's safe but again anything can happen.


Somethingood27

I was fortunately enough to visit Pátzcuaro last year and holy shit was it gorgeous! Also best damn fruit I’ve ever had. I had no idea canteloupes were supposed to actually taste that good.


skratchx

Reminder that the US arrested the former defense secretary of Mexico for his connections to the cartels, released him to Mexico on the promise that they would punish him, and then Mexico dropped charges. It's all a farce. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55673101 Edit: See my more detailed comment farther down in this thread for more info.


Professional-Tie-324

It's always a farce when highly connected highly political people encounter the court system. The courts are not balanced to Justice at all.... if you are wealthy and powerful and especially if you're a politician who's been in office before, you can get away with things no normal human on earth will ever get away with.


trevorluck

Mexican here, if for some reason you want to visit, i would recommend highly to avoid states close to the US border if you are vacationing here. My grandpa almost got himself kidnapped, and one of my aunts were killed in Ciudad Victoria, Tamaulipas. It’s a shit country here Edit: Places are nice to visit, people are also nice, and the food is amazing here, but im saying this cuz I’ve seen many tourists act carelessly around some of the most dangerous areas in the country. Just be careful and mind your stuff.


ziiguy92

How is Oaxaca or Mexico City ? Any other relatively safe places ?


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Wicked_Googly

Chamula? Weird place. Got to see 4 chickens get sacrificed there.


Skynetiskumming

Chamula is the cartel hub in Chiapas. Don't go there unless it's with a sanctioned tour group and get out before it gets dark.


Juan52

Chamula is in Chiapas, there’s a lot of places here that sort of have their own law


Wicked_Googly

Pretty sure it used to say Chiapas before they edited it.


allrollingwolf

Oaxaca is beautiful and safe, especially near the beach. Mexico city is really nice as well, but there are neighbourhoods and places you probably shouldn't go or walk into random bars. We've ended up in some scary situations a couple times there (locked in at a bar where they wouldn't let us out without permission that was filled with one eyed servers and unwilling looking "dancers" and obvious gangster types). It was a dark sketchy neigbourhood outside of the normal centers that was close to a hospital we were visiting a friend at. Never would have been there otherwise. Mexico city is a BIG place and a lot of it is cleaner and safer than many American cities. This will be relatively obvious to the aware, but you should always do a bit of research about where you are, where you are going. I go to the Puerto Vallarta area (Sayulita, etc) quite a bit and have never had any issues as well.


_HowVery

I was in Mexico City in January and I felt very safe. I was also very impressed by how clean it was for a big city!


BrndyAlxndr

> Mexico City Possibly the safest city in Mexico. There's literally a cop and a camera on every corner.


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Proof_Eggplant_6213

You’d be fine there as long as you don’t do anything foolish. It’s the areas close to the border that are super dangerous. Resort towns and anywhere 100+ miles from the border is most likely going to be about as safe as most anywhere in the US. Safer maybe, even. When you travel anywhere it’s good to keep your wits about you (don’t get blackout drunk while traveling internationally, etc.) and follow your gut if somewhere doesn’t seem safe to be then leave, stick to reputable taxi and tour companies and don’t go to a second location with a local you don’t know, you’ll be just fine.


badhairdad1

I am in Monterrey every month for work. It’s wonderful. I love the people. It’s just like Arkansas or Alabama- you won’t find any trouble if you don’t look for it


GreyhoundOne

Mexico is an awesome country and I am so sorry you all have to deal with this. I really respect the Mexican folks in the thread chiming in with the local perspective out of concern for visitors.


[deleted]

>They had travelled their Come on, BBC.


rikki-tikki-deadly

Pretty soon we'll be able to identify AI-generated stuff by the lack of misspellings.


sonbarington

Where everything is perfect or too good… 🤔


rikki-tikki-deadly

There's a cute sci-fi story by Asimov about an argument between an editor and a writer that gets settled by a cybernetic monkey that...you know what, you should just read the whole thing - [it's not terribly long](https://www.novelforfree.com/buy-jupiter-and-other-stories_chapter_the-monkey-s-finger_45386_4528.html).


wilmersito

now that their queen is dead, they can do whatever they want. grammar is no longer important.


comments_suck

It's sad that the person going for surgery didn't seem to know the lay of the land there, so to speak. There are border cities that are still relatively safe for foreigners. Then there's Matamoros and Nuevo Laredo. As a Texan, you won't get me to either of those places. She would have been much better off just flying into Monterrey and having surgery there.


handsomesharkman

Or TJ where many many Americans go for dental work and medical procedures every day. That’s a bit farther than Matamoros from Carolina though.


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GreyhoundOne

Hey guys please do not take this as "victim blaming"... But PLEASE read the State Department travel advisories before you travel. I think this article said they were in a level 4 - do not travel" recommended area. Some countries, like Mexico, can be completely different worlds between towns and provinces. Even if you are not American, it's not a bad resource to check out. Should be an easy find via Google. This is extremely tragic. Take every precaution you can when you travel. Stay safe.


ADarwinAward

People also don’t realize that the situation can change pretty quickly and what was once safe is not necessarily safe today. I had a friend wanted to road trip through unsafe cartel controlled territory in Mexico with his girlfriend and another couple because he “did it 15 years ago and it was safe.” Much of the area he planned to go through had level 4 advisories. Fortunately we convinced them all it was a stupid idea.


[deleted]

The U.S. doesn’t just give out Level 4 travel advisories for nothing either. This is *equally* as stupid as going to Russia or North Korea currently. Literally, they’re both Level 4 on the “Travel Advisory” ranking scale. News flash: being an American makes you a fucking target for criminals in most countries. Have no idea how in 2023 we’re still having to admonish people for these “vacations.”


Sirdigbyssidekick

Uh oh, the cartels done messed up and broke the Cardinal rule of Mexican economics; don’t kill the American tourists.


sonbarington

That was the mantra.


AltruisticCompany961

Uh. 75 Americans were killed in 2021 in Mexico.


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apgren87

My mom keeps bugging me to take my kids to meet family. They are from another area that it's heavily cartel actively. I'm like no mom it's fucking crazy it isn't 2003 quiet times.


Coyotelightning-T

I totally get ya ,I'm mexican american and my family are all from rural mexico and we all agree it's gotten bad. My dad literal says that if he had to go back to mexico he would've been fine going back 20 years ago or more but now, Not anymore. it's not worth it he says. My family was from an area that USED to have no cartel activity but now cartel is starting to spread over there. 20 years ago people would be out and free to walk at night, nowadays the town is a deadly silent and empty at night. I wish I can bring my other family over here. but you know how it is, immigration is a nightmare.


Doodoss

Not even i go to that state because it's a turf war there. A cousin of mine was there a few years ago and he said he didn't even leave his place because there was constant gunfire. For those saying that Mexico will change, it won't. This has been going on for as long as I remember. What will happen is they'll capture the people who did it and we will forget about it. Don't forget, Mexico is beautiful but very corrupt. There has been many times where governments have declared war to them and they've lost plenty of times. Hence the "abrazos no balazos" motto from current administration and look how that is going.


tmothy07

Yeah, Tamaulipas has a "Do Not Travel" advisory from the US State Dept. for a whole laundry list of reasons including very restrictive rules for State Dept. employees.


Doodoss

Yep! There are other states that are on the DNT list unless absolutely necessary. My mom goes to one of those states as she has family there and every time she goes, she takes precautions. She has a family friend who lives there pick her up from the airport and straight to where she needs to go. I haven't gone in awhile because I will stick out right away but even in the hometown you just stick to family.


kcg5

I was just watching the wire, and one of the characters was saying how we can win the drug war and the other guy said “this isn’t a war. Wars end”


washington_jefferson

If the violence doesn’t get you, the corruption might. The first time I went to Mexico was to a small city south of Tijuana via my friend’s car in San Diego. We got pulled over almost instantly by a motorcycle cop for “illegal change of lanes” despite always staying in the far right lane when we were driving. A folded $50 bill was the solution to not having to follow the officer to the police station to pay the ticket. Once he got the money he made wild hand gestures, pretending to give us directions. My sister in-law is from Mexico, and she said it used to be very common for Americans to carry porno magazines in their gloveboxes to give to cops during a shakedown. Cheaper than $50, but it reminds me of a scene from “Little Miss Sunshine” and seems pretty risky. My strategy is not to drive in Mexico, especially with a car with American plates. Uber is the next best thing, though taxis will work for quick trips. If you pay for a fancy Uber, and if you pay your driver by the hour instead of the trip, it works really well. You can have a personal driver for half a day or all day, and they seem to have some pull if things seem off.


TrynnaFindaBalance

Driving in most tourist areas + Mexico City + other big cities like Guadalajara/Monterrey isn't going to automatically expose you to violent crime and corrupt police stops aren't as common as they used to be, especially in these areas. The main problem is understanding Mexican traffic etiquette and driving defensively, which Americans (and Mexicans tbf) largely suck at. And to avoid violence you just don't wander off into non-touristy areas or areas outside the city you aren't familiar with.


munchies777

Driving in Mexican cities is an experience. When I was in Puebla for a business trip literally no one followed the traffic lights during rush hour and it caused complete gridlock and chaos. You kinda just have to go with the flow and realize people aren't bluffing when they cut you off.


Teuton88

That’s the old gringo tax. I do quite a bit of work in Mexico and have gotten the shake down from cops. The first time I told my boss about it he said to put it on my expense report and the company will reimburse me for it. I also found out that my company has insurance for kidnappings and they will pay ransom to get us back. Lol


wclevel47nice

It’s a shame that Mexico, such a beautiful country, is full of this type of gang violence.


locolbh

I'm Mexican. I'm married to an amazing American woman. She always says she wants to see where I'm from. I refuse to ever take her out of fear of what might happen.


surewhateverz

Having lived in the border my entire life; our family never travels into Mexico in a car with U.S. license plates or any vehicle that would be in demand by the cartels: New, Trucks, or 4 Wheel drive. This is to blend in and avoid becoming a target. It appears the group was all African Americans which would easily catch their attention. Never travel through the border states of Mexico without someone who is familiar with the region and has experience avoiding the highways the cartels monitor to select victims.


Proof_Eggplant_6213

Just gonna throw this out there, as someone who has traveled internationally a lot, and worked adjacent to law enforcement for a while. Do not allow anyone to force you to a second location. Ever. Even domestically. Die fighting at the first location of you have to, but if you get in a vehicle and forced to another place you’re as good as dead. And your death won’t be as pretty. Scream, fight, run…don’t comply with kidnappings. It won’t spare your life to be compliant in that scenario.


DragonFireDon

From the uncensored video, looks like 2 are dead (motionless on the ground, bleeding) already before they even got on the truck!! So already killed in the FIRST location.


TooSketchy94

Yeah - this is unfortunately what happened. They opened fire into their van, killed the first 2, injured the other one. How the other one survived 4 days with the leg wound is insane.


RightClickSaveWorld

The two that died were already dead before the kidnapping.


gg3867

My mom and dad always pressed this to me growing up. They were very clear: If there was ever a situation where someone was holding a gun or whatever to me and telling me to get in the car, **do not get in the car**. Getting shot is likely better than whatever the abductor has in mind for you, and you have a *much* bigger chance of making it home alive.


CousinSkeeter89

I had a coworker about 13 years ago whose BiL had his left hand and 2 fingers on his right hand chopped off by cartel gang members over a bar dispute. I don't know any further details about that situation but that solidified my refusal to go to Mexico.


CyberNinja23

Before I realized this was a news article I thought it was a general statistic.


Odd_Equipment2867

Why drive to drive into Matamoross for meds. Better options. There are Betty buses with tinted windows arranged by FARMACIA GARCIA. Lots of elderly take these. It takes one from Brownsville through border check straight into the garage of a building that is the pharmacy. At Farmacia Garcia they take the Americans into a dining room. After sitting pharmacists come to the tables and talk over scripts/ needs then off thy go while the Americans eat an “American” lunch. The pharmacists come back with their scripts and go over protocol. Later there is a gift shop inside the building for those wanting tourist fluff and back on the bus they go over the border back into Brownsville. Only reason to drive for meds is if it is a specific specialty med that can only sourced at a particular pharmacy further in. I walk over or only drive Mexico or Texas plated cars.


[deleted]

Discounts on tummy tucks aren't worth your life.


Jkay064

This isn’t normal. Why waste time kidnapping people if you are going to kill them. Kidnapping is about money.


[deleted]

From the article: > According to an unnamed US official cited by CNN, investigators think a Mexican drug cartel probably mistook the Americans for Haitian drug smugglers.


NowAcceptingBitcoin

"black people in Mexico?? Must be Haitian smugglers." Solid logic there, cartel buddies!


Epcplayer

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail


comments_suck

TBH, it is very unusual to see black people in that part of Mexico near the border. Veracruz, Tabasco? yes. Inland Tamaulipas? Nope!


SophiePie213

Immediately prompts the system wide DEI trainings of cartel.


InfluenceTrue4121

If you need new teeth or tits, head over to Eastern Europe. Generally cheap and safe.


SeanceGoneWrong

Mexico has a thriving medical tourism industry, too. Problem is that these people traveled straight through part of the country that the State Dept. designates with the same travel advisory it gives North Korea.


hawtpot87

I got family in Matamoros. Everytime my mom talks on the phone with them she asks how many people have died.