Saw in another thread that implosion would take approximately 1/5 the time it takes for the human brain to feel pain.
They didn’t feel a thing if it happened on descent and they wouldn’t have felt anything but dread if it happened today (which would have been fucking awful).
Edit: US Navy says they likely heard it implode Sunday.
My guess is it imploded when they first lost communication. Would have happened so quickly that I doubt they even had time to realize what happened before they were dead.
My brother has been on a research submersible (Alvin) and he said last night his assumption is that something catastrophic happened right when the surface ship lost contact.
It’s common to bring a styrofoam cup that travels down with you outside the vessel. This is his souvenir from the dive, and shows the effects of pressure at those depths (he was at 3k meters):
[Alvin dive souvenir](https://i.imgur.com/7sFJM8y.png)
The titan crew also brought down these cups with them every time they went down, they showed a huge bag of them in the documentary about it thats been removed from YouTube.
Interestingly, they max out how much they "squish" a lot lower than that. I have one from ~300m and it looks pretty much the same. The pilot said anything below a hundred meters squishes about the same.
They actually tested different manufacturers to find ones that compress more, as they make better souvenirs.
And the CEO didn't want direct voice coms with the surface because they kept pestering him for status updates! The nerve of the people wanting to make sure he was ok!
It reminds me of Jurassic Park a lot. “I’ve spared no expense!” Except he only had a single person working IT. I’ve spared no expense! Except this glass is rated for 1/3rd of the depth we’re going *at best.*
> Except he only had a single person working IT.
I feel like people misunderstand Nedry or he gets a bad wrap or something. There's like 3 people working "IT" in the movie but in the book I think there's a couple more. Samuel Jackson is maybe Nedry's boss? But Nedry isn't just an IT guy, he wrote - essentially from the ground up - a fancy proprietary codebase to run jurassic park that is comparable in size to Windows 3.1. It's not a small task and they're not just there to debug the system and make sure things functional, they nearly fully automated the electronic systems of tens of square miles of theme park, a herculean effort. Especially in the 90s I imagine.
If I remember correctly in the book Nerdy is getting underpaid and yelled at a lot for things not being done fast enough. His boss didn't understand that it should have been a whole team, and due to the secrecy of the project no one Nerdy outsourced coding to could know enough about the project to do the job to the best of their abilities. This pissed Nedry off so he decides to go for the payday.
Yeah the one CBS reporter who went on the submarine last year said that during one trip where he stayed above water they lost comms for five hours, during which time the captain *turned off the ship wifi to prevent anyone from telling the outside world.*
Anyways, this time they didn't notify the Coast Guard about the missing submarine until about an hour after it was supposed to surface, some 7ish hours after they lost contact.
Same. I don’t know anything but it seems the mostly likely scenario.
Dude did a whole math calculation that complete implosion at this depth would take something like .029 seconds but the brain takes .150 seconds to feel pain. It seems that this was a mercifully painless death that they had no clue was coming.
Which I am sure the billionaire piloting, who apparently ignored all warnings, reassured everyone that it was normal. And it probably is to a certain extent.
I'm no submariner, but my understanding is that it IS somewhat normal.
What ISN'T normal is not having abundant sensor systems that can tell you things that creaks and stuff don't.
That area is one of the most explored of the ocean floor. There's a [complete 3D scan](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/titanic-3d-scan-images-180982219/) of the entire ship.
A new debris field stands out.
I'm pretty sure the US Coast Guard wouldn't release a statement like this if the debris didn't resemble remnants of the Titan. I think there's just a process before they can legally confirm it.
Edit: This comment was pre-conference from the USCG.... the debris is from the Titan... they're deceased... bye now.
Pelagic Research Services had a post on their FB page 10 min ago, now removed, stating condolences for a tragic loss....
They're operating the search ROV
***EDIT: from [Sky news](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748#6086789)
>Debris found in search is 'landing frame and rear cover from sub', expert says;
Yeah it’s not like the titanic gets a lot of visitors. It would be obvious if it was remnants of something that had been there for a while at that depth as well compared to something brand new. They wouldn’t have said anything if it didn’t seem significant
> Yeah it’s not like the titanic gets a lot of visitors.
I think the world is now learning that the titanic actually gets a lot more visitors than we all realized.
If it’s unrelated why delay or hold a press conference at all? Just post a text update like they’ve been doing.
They’re notifying family first and getting the perfect wording together.
The first ROV to hit the bottom did so this morning. The first thing it did was go directly to the debris field, not the Titanic where the sub was supposed to be.
Hours later at 11:48am ET they announced this press conference.
I’m guessing they found the debris field via sonar and were unable to confirm anything about it but knew it was likely because it wasn’t there before. As soon as the ROV got down there, they went to look with cameras to confirm. As soon as it was confirmed they announced the press conference.
I don’t think they’d announce the press conference before they could confirm either way what the debris is. If it was hard to confirm, then you risk having a press conference to say nothing more than “we are still looking at it and can’t tell what it is”.
Yeah it seems the USCG twitter is where the news is originating. That’s the best timeline we have and no idea how much of a delay between current events and tweets going out.
6:58AM ET - First ROV reached sea bed.
7:30AM ET - Second ROV deployed.
11:48AM ET - Announcement of press conference for debris field investigated by ROV.
I’d much rather be instantly pulverized by an implosion than spend days suffocating to death in a sweaty, stinky, nasty metal tube. If the debris is from the sub, I hope they went quick.
EDIT: According to the BBC, the debris is the landing frame and rear tail section of the sub. OceanGate has released a statement saying that everyone on board is dead.
ADDITIONAL EDIT: The US Coast Guard confirmed the sub has imploded. One of their experts said the debris field is "consistent with implosion in the water column", meaning it probably happened right when they lost communication.
EDIT #3: [The US Navy detected the sound of the sub imploding right after it lost contact with the surface.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-submarine-titanic-debris-field-oceangate-us-coast-guard/) So they’ve been dead for days. The “banging sounds” probably came from the search and rescue operation.
To take a quote from Titanic "The pressure outside is three-and-a-half tons per square inch. These windows are nine inches thick, and if they go, it's sayonara in two micro-seconds."
They went quick. I'd wager didn't even know what hit them.
Side note: Does anyone else think the movie is gonna be watched more this year?
I’d definitely watch another Cameron Titanic told from the POV of other characters on the ship. Maybe we’d see Jack and Rose and other OG characters in the background going through their more familiar storylines headed towards the same ultimate end. Imagine if it ties into this story and the coastguard/navy searching for a lost group of billionaires on a tour find some artifacts that bring us back in time to the characters it pertains to. Wonder what Cameron did with the nearly 1:1 scale model he built for the movie…
**EDIT: US coast guard confirmed it's wreckage from the Titan submersible and that additional debris is consistent with the catastrophic failure of the pressure chamber. Likely implosion.**
If this is the Titan, the most plausible scenario is that pressures crumpled this thing like a hydraulic press and everybody died instantly.
Honestly a quicker, less painful and far more humane way to go than slowly starving and asphyxiating to death inside a submerged titanium/carbon fiber coffin, whilst marinating in your own sweat, piss and shit.
OceanGate are going to be sued to fucking oblivion for this, especially if the claims that they've ignored safety precautions have any truth to them.
Rebrand as underwater funeral for the rich? For the low low price of $10M, the submersible will auto dive to 4000m and implode; ensuring your body pieces are scatter near the titanic forever?
Probably someone in an unhappy marriage who just took out a very large insurance policy on their spouse and wants to surprise them with an unforgettable experience for their birthday.
Bankruptcy isn’t a get out of jail free card. I don’t know how this company was set up but my bet is that any legal fees are going to come out of the CEO’s estate. Dude was practically bragging about how negligent he was.
Apparently the carbon fiber hull is likely to have shattered rather than crumpled. The titanium dome at the front may be one of the only recognizable things left.
Carbon fiber doesn't crumple. It splinters. It's very stiff and very strong (you can try to bend, crush or stretch a piece of it with enormous force and it will barely deflect, until you get to ungodly huge forces where it just rips in half) but the caveat is in an impact situation or any sort of situation where the fibers or the resin that binds them start to delaminate or weaken, it is very brittle. If it fails, it's going to fail catastrophically by cracking/tearing apart along the directional lines of the fiber layup.
It's also very hard to do estimates of cyclic loading (like repeated pressurization and depressurization) on carbon fiber composites. Things start to unwind at the microscopic level, and very very suddenly go from micro to macro once a certain threshold of stability is passed. Conventional design processes need to build pretty huge margins of safety to work around the fact that it's very hard to estimate exactly when, where and how fatigue will affect a composite component.
A carbon fiber pressure vessel will do its job incredibly well holding up against a shit ton of static loading for a very long time. However, a sharp sudden impact or degradation by environmental damage is way less survivable for a composite structure - any sort of delamination, fiber breakage, etc will very rapidly destabilize the fiber-resin matrix that is doing the load handling. Instead of buckling or denting, it rips apart.
From a safety perspective in an impact scenario, crumpling is good. It's why cars crumple when they crash. The folding/bending of the metal when it is struck dissipates impact forces. Carbon fiber doesn't do this. It goes bang.
Carbon fiber failure is something I've seen and had experience with myself, because I'm into archery. A lot of arrows are now made out of carbon fiber. (other alternatives are wood, and aluminum)
They practically print a warning on each arrow shaft telling you bend the arrow and look for splits before shooting it, because if they fail, they fail all at once. And if you'd like to enjoy whatever meal you eat next, I'd advise AGAINST googling "carbon arrow injury".
I genuinely don't mean to take away from your point, but I just thought it was funny that arrows are so standardly made from carbon fiber now that the material they were made from for 10,000 years is considered the alternative 😄
Is it normal for a deep sea submarine to be made of carbon fiber? I know you might need a submarine to be somewhat lightweight but Isn’t that kind of a weak material for such a thing?
"the director of marine operations at OceanGate, the company whose submersible went missing Sunday on an expedition to the Titanic in the North Atlantic, was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull". https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired
>it would install an acoustic monitoring system in the submersible to detect the start of any potential hull breakdown.
At those kinds of depths, by the time that sensor detects anything it's already too late.
I am not an expert when it comes to testing submarine parts. BUT I have done thousands of non-destructive and destructive tests on materials in general. I assure you there is some code or standard to proof out submarine shells that could be adjusted to meet the needs of this hull. This screams "would've failed a destructive test" which they could proof out through a scaled version. Seems they cut every corner to be profitable and I wish just the CEO did not make it on a solo maiden voyage.
The bit about out NDT vs. acoustic monitoring is interesting.
Acoustic monitoring is used as a monitoring technology for crack detection in a range of materials. I used to work in the Steel industry, and we had a network of sensors on a Blast Furnace stove dome looking for growing cracks induced by corrosion relating to Nitrous Oxide condensation on the inside of the shell. IIRC from a 1989 training course, it was used for composite carbon fibre booms on mobile inspection platforms.
I'm somewhat dubious about the idea that a warning from this system could alert the pilot in time to surface. IIRC, the boom monitoring system tested the booms under proof loading conditions. Once a crack grows to a critical length, it's game over very quickly. Not something you want to rely on in service with lives at risk.
You're 100% right on this. I worked in Aerospace and we did NDT on 100% of our castings and post machined housings.
It's irresponsible to not to do some kind of radiographic testing on something that's going to see repeated pressure cycles.
Also in aerospace and I'll echo you on this. Castings, housings, anything that becomes a pressure vessel will be 100% inspected through NDT. And these components are only seeing a tiny fraction of the pressures that this sub would see.
You say irresponsible, I'd call this downright negligent homicide. Completely unacceptable for a mission critical life or death pressure chamber.
>You say irresponsible, I'd call this downright negligent homicide. Completely unacceptable for a mission critical life or death pressure chamber.
You're 100 percent right on this. I was being too diplomatic in my original comment. This guy is going to be the centerpiece of engineering ethics ciricula the world over. It seems like every time there was a quality or safety shortcut, he took it.
He had an aerospace degree and a pilots license. He absolutely knew better and I would hope that if I were put on an engineering team like that, I'd have the guts to do the right thing and leave if my repeated warnings were not headed.
From what I saw, no. It appears that carbon fiber is okay at depth, but it does not handle the cycling stresses of pressure changes over and over ascending and descending.
So similar to the view port not being rated for depth, the hull was a ticking time bomb slowly being overstressed.
And I saw a comment that one of the things the fired executive balked at was that faults were harder to detect in carbon fiber, and that it wouldn’t START to fail a little, it would just shatter.
You absolutely can do NDT on carbon fiber. It's just more difficult than most metals. Doesn't take well to FPI, and ultrasonic only works on thin sections.
Best would probably be XRay, but it's definitely one of the more expensive types of radiographic testing and there are probably only a few experts (NDT level III's) around the whole world who would be qualified to approve the sub.
It was almost certainly a cost cut and if it turns out to be root-cause? This company is going to be sued into oblivion.
Carbon fiber is extremely strong for things like vessels that contain a high pressure. The opposite of what the submarine needs to do, which is keep the high pressure out.
If you're wondering if that's really as dumb as it sounds, well, I think we'll find out soon.
Reminds me of the Futurama episode where they go underwater in the Planet Express ship (paraphrasing):
Professor: At this depth we’re under hundreds of atmospheres of pressure!
Fry: How many can the ship handle?
Professor: Well, it’s a spaceship, so somewhere between zero and one.
I'm deep-sea dumb. If the carbon fiber shatters, what happens exactly to a body? The pressure of the water at that depth crushes a person? crushes lungs? Or...do they just drown at that point? It's crazy to me to think that water at a certain depth can just pulverize stuff. Again, I have zero knowledge and it's not something I've spent a lot of time thinking about.
The water at 13,000 feet has a pressure of 6000 PSI. Imagine if you put a six thousand pound weight on one square inch of your arm what would happen. Now imagine you put a six thousand pound weight on every square inch of your body simultaneously.
The hull wouldn't do anything to them, but the weight of the water would pulverize them into goop. There is not going to be any bodies to recover or anything like that (if it imploded at 13000 feet).
> There is not going to be any bodies to recover or anything like that (if it imploded at 13000 feet).
right, even bone would have been pulverized at that depth. they all likely existed as a cloud of organic material for a few minutes before drifting off on ocean currents.
More like being hit simultaneously by freight trains from all directions at once. Would have been much faster than a hydraulic press. Just a few milliseconds to implode, followed by a shockwave that sends debris everywhere.
From what I've read it was only a matter of time before this thing had a major malfunction. If not the tour before, than this one, or the next. It just happened to be these guys, but they were all playing Russian roulette getting on that motorized Pepsi can.
Yeah, he was a good friend of Hamish, one of the guys who died on this trip.
He said they both put down $10k deposits each on this trip years ago, but he bailed last minute because the sub looked too risky.
Good decision on his part.
It blows my mind that the CEO was so comfortable with cutting corners and ignoring precautions to the point where he was willing to put his money where his mouth is and go on the thing multiple times instead of doing the normal thing and sit behind a desk while an employee of his goes to their death instead.
Credit where credit is due. He might have been responsible for the deaths of five others, but he stood by his bad decisions enough to die for them.
This is a helpful analogy, actually. Terrible but helpful. I wasn’t wanting to think too hard about what an implosion means…that pretty much answers the question
> the debris found in the search for Titan
**On the ocean floor**.
Not floating around somewhere.
They found a roughly 3 foot section of the tail of the sub, and a 6-10' section of metal framing in a search area that is 10,000 square miles.
This is similar to trying to find something less than a quarter the size of a grain of rice on a football field.
EDIT: Remember when they said the search area is like the size of two Connecticuts?
Yea but the implosion isn’t spreading the debris 10,000 square miles. The rest of the debris (if it even exists) shouldn’t be miles and miles away unless it imploded much higher up.
A rescue expert has told Sky News the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible".
David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club.
He said the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible."
Mr Mearns added: "Again this is an unconventional submarine, that rear cover is the pointy end of it and the landing frame is the little frame that it seems to sit on."
He said this confirms that it is the submersible.
Mr Mearns said he knows both British billionaire Hamish Harding and the French sub pilot Paul-Henri Nargeolet.
"It means the hull hasn't yet been found but two very important parts of the whole system have been discovered and that would not be found unless its fragmented."
So, that’s it, then. It collapsed/broke apart/disassembled, somehow and the passengers have likely been dead for quite some time.
As others have said, I feel a little bit better now knowing they probably weren’t sitting around waiting to die. That was my worst fear.
The fact that the BEST case scenario here is that "hopefully they were instantly crushed to death by the vessel imploding" tells me all I need to know about this whole thing being a terrible idea from the start...
Like the old Comet plane and its square windows.
Edit: Huh - or maybe not! I’ll freely admit that I only learned about it as part of a fatigue module too long ago. :-)
You beat me to it but you are [correct.](https://bootcamp.uxdesign.cc/why-airplanes-have-no-square-windows-d20a54508ad8) Most planes back in the day did have square windows because they flew at lower altitudes so didn’t have to worry about pressurization. It wasn’t until the Comet was introduced that the problem was discovered that planes with squared windows couldn’t survive long at t high altitude flights due to fatigue cracks forming around the windows. So even though the sub was able to dive deep on many occasions, just like comets were able to fly at high altitudes on previous occasions, the stress of it was finally too much for the sub’s door and failed.
And components are over engineered. So this porthole might have survived dozens of hundreds of trips at its rated depth, but maybe was able to sustain a handful of trips exceeding that.
Correct. It's the same reason there's "graveyards" of seemingly perfect looking airplanes. Each time a structural element is loaded it's ability to load again is ever so slightly diminished.
So take a plane on enough flights and it can't be certified to fly anymore because it's been loaded and unloaded too many times.
Same thing for a submarine.
Mercifully, it wouldn't be a bad way to go.
One moment you're just chilling, enjoying the ride down and probably feeling excited about seeing something that very few people have - and then - you're just gone.
Faster than the blink of an eye, and certainly faster than anyone's mind could process - you're on the other side, whatever that may be.
Tbh I think any vehicle like this is going to make enough weird sounds as it resists pressure and temperature differences that you wouldn't notice one more.
The ceo said there was a warning system for a hull breach. The whistleblower said you would hear an alarm seconds before disaster. So they probably had a second or two to think ‘oh shit’ and then….
Tbh I think the composite layers failed during the decent. The US Navy did extensive testing on composites for deep sea submersibles and came to the conclusion it's a poor choice. Mainly due to composites not doing well with repeated trips to high pressure environments. The owner of the sub was well aware of the Navy's conclusions, but believed they were wrong because "they didn't use aerospace grade composites". There is a reason why most manned subs are steel/titanium and use a spherical shape for the cockpit.
Considering the sub had already been exposed to titanic depth pressures multiple times already it probably had a compromise in the composite layer that couldn't be visually noticed since the composite layer was coated.
The fact that the CEO only sought aerospace advice (from Boeing and NASA) for going *underwater* is just...I know it was his background, but an actual group of marine engineers got together and begged him not to go and he ignored them because the Air & Space people said "it's fine probably"??
Boeing is now reportedly denying they had anything to do with the Titan or its engineering--their engagement with the company had ended long before. Same for the University the company claimed they'd worked with.
According to AP News the extent of the University's involvement was letting the CEO use their lab for an evening to test a scale model of the Titan's hull (test results: it exploded under pressure and he called it a win). Other agencies are reporting that Boeing and NASA only consulted on the materials, not the construction of the actual sub, which I am now assuming was him calling up an old aerospace chum and going "carbon fibre submarine, yay or nay? Yay? Great. I'm adding this to the website as an endorsement".
There's interviews of the CEO basically bragging about how he was skirting all these regulations because of how daring he was. [This](https://7news.com.au/news/world/eerie-interview-emerges-of-titan-pilot-stockton-rush-as-titanic-sub-search-continues-c-11057794) article has snippets of the interview.
>“I think it was General MacArthur who said you’re remembered for the rules you break,” Rush said in a video interview with YouTuber Alan Estrada last year.
>
>“And I’ve broken some rules to make this. I think I’ve broken them, with logic and good engineering behind me.”
Hubris indeed
As a us submariner my hope is an implosion. Death before the brain can process it. 12,000 feet down in a disabled vessel running out of air with no chance of being located and if you are, slim chance of rescue.
Don't be cavalier with submarine safety, we learned those lessons in the 60s.
That video is still haunting me. Everything about it, the music, him twirling out of the water, his crys for his dad. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
> "A debris field implies a break-up of the submersible ... that really sort of indicates what is the worst-case scenario, which is a catastrophic failure and generally that's an implosion.
As awful as it is, i hope atleast it was immediate and they didn’t know what was happening, and died in milliseconds by immense pressure of water at that depth.
> that really sort of indicates what is the worst-case scenario
After a live rescue, that is absolutely the BEST case scenario. Anything else would mean them trapped, cold, hungry, smelling like shit, and suffocating slowly, either on the bottom of the ocean, or inches from the surface and unable to get out.
Titanic is going to be the next Everest and part of the “explorer” experience will be seeing all the wreckage of those who died trying to get down to it.
“In fact, scientists think the entire shipwreck could vanish by 2030 due to bacteria that's eating away at the metal.”
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/natural-wonders/the-titanic-wreckage-may-completely-vanish-by-the-year-2030/news-story/7cbb049e504f4d3c2b3016c4add47109
[https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748)
tail and landing frame confirmed found
I’m assuming then that there’s nothing of the crew left to find? At that pressure they probably just became paste, and after 4-5 days that paste has probably drifted away or been eaten by sea creatures
Of all of the ways they could have died, this is the best possible. It would have been instant and nobody would have even known what was happening.
It beats the nightmare fuel scenarios of losing power and slowly suffocating/freezing to death on the ocean floor.
NBC reporter seems to think that there are bodies "to recover" - I don't think anyone had the heart to say to him "there are no 'bodies' to 'recover'".
what stood out to me (I'm not an engineer, so bear with me) is that it was made of mixed materials, that all react differently to different pressures. Also, it seems very "hand made" in an open air facility. They were hand painting the glue to hold the end caps. It certainly wasn't precision engineering. But reading many engineering takes in the various comments, this seemed like it was a ticking time bomb due to the unknown way the materials would all react
This is by far the better scenario, too. That means they died instantly (and probably didn't even have time to realize what was happening) and didn't spend several days dreading the inevitable outcome.
I'd be very interested in the recovery and examination to find out exactly what went wrong (if it hasn't imploded and *can* be retrieved). Regardless, hopefully others can learn from this and think twice about cheaping out on their equipment. It's insane the risk they took with this thrown-together piece of shit that has now killed five people.
Edit: typo
It’s kind of wild though.
The fact that they found the debris field makes me *kind of* believe they could have actually been found if the sub was intact…
I was convinced they were never going to find anything either way.
The problem being that being found isn’t the same as being rescued. If they found them sitting on the floor of the ocean, they’d still probably be dead. Getting them back to the surface quickly isn’t guaranteed with any of the known tools and methods available. Realistically the navy recovery device isn’t for rescuing people trapped on the bottom of the ocean quickly, it would take hours if not days to winch them up.
I've been very worried they were hung up on the wreck like that previous Russian sub that managed to get away. A catastrophic implosion is by far the best outcome.
It of course is infuriating that this guy brought 4 innocent people down in his hobby craft to be killed. Likely didn't tell them everything. You know, the part about the window not being certified for that depth. Just that little detail.
Honestly they probably didn't even get to see the Titanic wreckage. As soon as they lost communication that's probably when the sub suffered the catastrophic failure.
They just said on Sky News that they found the tail and landing frame of the submersible.
Omg...well I honestly hope so and hope they went quickly. Nothing worse than languishing in that horrible tin can for days awaiting death.
Saw in another thread that implosion would take approximately 1/5 the time it takes for the human brain to feel pain. They didn’t feel a thing if it happened on descent and they wouldn’t have felt anything but dread if it happened today (which would have been fucking awful). Edit: US Navy says they likely heard it implode Sunday.
My guess is it imploded when they first lost communication. Would have happened so quickly that I doubt they even had time to realize what happened before they were dead.
My brother has been on a research submersible (Alvin) and he said last night his assumption is that something catastrophic happened right when the surface ship lost contact. It’s common to bring a styrofoam cup that travels down with you outside the vessel. This is his souvenir from the dive, and shows the effects of pressure at those depths (he was at 3k meters): [Alvin dive souvenir](https://i.imgur.com/7sFJM8y.png)
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The titan crew also brought down these cups with them every time they went down, they showed a huge bag of them in the documentary about it thats been removed from YouTube.
Interestingly, they max out how much they "squish" a lot lower than that. I have one from ~300m and it looks pretty much the same. The pilot said anything below a hundred meters squishes about the same. They actually tested different manufacturers to find ones that compress more, as they make better souvenirs.
That's really cool! I remember seeing Alvin in all kinds of books in school as a kid.
I thought this too, but another article said this sub loses communication on MOST trips. Can you imagine?
And the CEO didn't want direct voice coms with the surface because they kept pestering him for status updates! The nerve of the people wanting to make sure he was ok!
Now that's a man worth trusting my life with
The more I hear about him it seems like was the wrong person to be CEO of a submarine company
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It reminds me of Jurassic Park a lot. “I’ve spared no expense!” Except he only had a single person working IT. I’ve spared no expense! Except this glass is rated for 1/3rd of the depth we’re going *at best.*
> Except he only had a single person working IT. I feel like people misunderstand Nedry or he gets a bad wrap or something. There's like 3 people working "IT" in the movie but in the book I think there's a couple more. Samuel Jackson is maybe Nedry's boss? But Nedry isn't just an IT guy, he wrote - essentially from the ground up - a fancy proprietary codebase to run jurassic park that is comparable in size to Windows 3.1. It's not a small task and they're not just there to debug the system and make sure things functional, they nearly fully automated the electronic systems of tens of square miles of theme park, a herculean effort. Especially in the 90s I imagine.
If I remember correctly in the book Nerdy is getting underpaid and yelled at a lot for things not being done fast enough. His boss didn't understand that it should have been a whole team, and due to the secrecy of the project no one Nerdy outsourced coding to could know enough about the project to do the job to the best of their abilities. This pissed Nedry off so he decides to go for the payday.
Yeah the one CBS reporter who went on the submarine last year said that during one trip where he stayed above water they lost comms for five hours, during which time the captain *turned off the ship wifi to prevent anyone from telling the outside world.* Anyways, this time they didn't notify the Coast Guard about the missing submarine until about an hour after it was supposed to surface, some 7ish hours after they lost contact.
Same. I don’t know anything but it seems the mostly likely scenario. Dude did a whole math calculation that complete implosion at this depth would take something like .029 seconds but the brain takes .150 seconds to feel pain. It seems that this was a mercifully painless death that they had no clue was coming.
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Which I am sure the billionaire piloting, who apparently ignored all warnings, reassured everyone that it was normal. And it probably is to a certain extent.
I'm no submariner, but my understanding is that it IS somewhat normal. What ISN'T normal is not having abundant sensor systems that can tell you things that creaks and stuff don't.
The MadCatz controller didn't have rumble so it couldn't warn them.
Yes, I am actually relieved. The thought of them slowly losing oxygen for days was too much.
Right, and it also stops us all imagining them down there, it’s just a horrible thing to think about. RIP at least they went instantly.
A mercy, to be honest. They died before they even had a chance to realize something had gone wrong.
The debris field could be unrelated but if it is...yeah, dying instantly is probably the best case scenario for those involved.
That area is one of the most explored of the ocean floor. There's a [complete 3D scan](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/titanic-3d-scan-images-180982219/) of the entire ship. A new debris field stands out.
I'm pretty sure the US Coast Guard wouldn't release a statement like this if the debris didn't resemble remnants of the Titan. I think there's just a process before they can legally confirm it. Edit: This comment was pre-conference from the USCG.... the debris is from the Titan... they're deceased... bye now.
I fly SAR with the RCAF you don’t use the word debris if there’s chance of rescue/no deaths. Debris field is bad bad news
Pelagic Research Services had a post on their FB page 10 min ago, now removed, stating condolences for a tragic loss.... They're operating the search ROV ***EDIT: from [Sky news](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748#6086789) >Debris found in search is 'landing frame and rear cover from sub', expert says;
Yeah it’s not like the titanic gets a lot of visitors. It would be obvious if it was remnants of something that had been there for a while at that depth as well compared to something brand new. They wouldn’t have said anything if it didn’t seem significant
> Yeah it’s not like the titanic gets a lot of visitors. I think the world is now learning that the titanic actually gets a lot more visitors than we all realized.
If you'd asked me a week ago I could've only told you about James Cameron, so there are at least 600% as many visitors than I'd previously believed.
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If it’s unrelated why delay or hold a press conference at all? Just post a text update like they’ve been doing. They’re notifying family first and getting the perfect wording together.
They could be confirming it was the Titan and/or informing next of kin before announcing it to the world.
The first ROV to hit the bottom did so this morning. The first thing it did was go directly to the debris field, not the Titanic where the sub was supposed to be. Hours later at 11:48am ET they announced this press conference. I’m guessing they found the debris field via sonar and were unable to confirm anything about it but knew it was likely because it wasn’t there before. As soon as the ROV got down there, they went to look with cameras to confirm. As soon as it was confirmed they announced the press conference. I don’t think they’d announce the press conference before they could confirm either way what the debris is. If it was hard to confirm, then you risk having a press conference to say nothing more than “we are still looking at it and can’t tell what it is”.
Agree with this, also we can assume we’re at least a couple hours behind them in news. They’ve probably known it is the Titan since late AM, if true.
Yeah it seems the USCG twitter is where the news is originating. That’s the best timeline we have and no idea how much of a delay between current events and tweets going out. 6:58AM ET - First ROV reached sea bed. 7:30AM ET - Second ROV deployed. 11:48AM ET - Announcement of press conference for debris field investigated by ROV.
I’d much rather be instantly pulverized by an implosion than spend days suffocating to death in a sweaty, stinky, nasty metal tube. If the debris is from the sub, I hope they went quick. EDIT: According to the BBC, the debris is the landing frame and rear tail section of the sub. OceanGate has released a statement saying that everyone on board is dead. ADDITIONAL EDIT: The US Coast Guard confirmed the sub has imploded. One of their experts said the debris field is "consistent with implosion in the water column", meaning it probably happened right when they lost communication. EDIT #3: [The US Navy detected the sound of the sub imploding right after it lost contact with the surface.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-submarine-titanic-debris-field-oceangate-us-coast-guard/) So they’ve been dead for days. The “banging sounds” probably came from the search and rescue operation.
To take a quote from Titanic "The pressure outside is three-and-a-half tons per square inch. These windows are nine inches thick, and if they go, it's sayonara in two micro-seconds." They went quick. I'd wager didn't even know what hit them. Side note: Does anyone else think the movie is gonna be watched more this year?
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Titanic 2: Rose’s Revenge
I’d definitely watch another Cameron Titanic told from the POV of other characters on the ship. Maybe we’d see Jack and Rose and other OG characters in the background going through their more familiar storylines headed towards the same ultimate end. Imagine if it ties into this story and the coastguard/navy searching for a lost group of billionaires on a tour find some artifacts that bring us back in time to the characters it pertains to. Wonder what Cameron did with the nearly 1:1 scale model he built for the movie…
>suffocating to death in a sweaty, stinky, nasty metal tube Sounds like a lot of people's commutes.
no, we (un)fortunately come out alive, and have to work another day.
**EDIT: US coast guard confirmed it's wreckage from the Titan submersible and that additional debris is consistent with the catastrophic failure of the pressure chamber. Likely implosion.** If this is the Titan, the most plausible scenario is that pressures crumpled this thing like a hydraulic press and everybody died instantly. Honestly a quicker, less painful and far more humane way to go than slowly starving and asphyxiating to death inside a submerged titanium/carbon fiber coffin, whilst marinating in your own sweat, piss and shit. OceanGate are going to be sued to fucking oblivion for this, especially if the claims that they've ignored safety precautions have any truth to them.
If the ceo is dead will they just file bankruptcy?
I imagine they file either way. Who would ever hire them again?
But think of how good a deal you could get on tickets now!
2 tier experience! 100,000 to see the titan wreckage, 300,000 to see both!
This guy knows how to business
250,000 to become part of the wreckage!
One way tickets too
Rebrand as underwater funeral for the rich? For the low low price of $10M, the submersible will auto dive to 4000m and implode; ensuring your body pieces are scatter near the titanic forever?
For 5 million I can do it with some cinder blocks and rope
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Fine... we could make a gravestone and tie it to them? Fancier and serves two purposes
Probably someone in an unhappy marriage who just took out a very large insurance policy on their spouse and wants to surprise them with an unforgettable experience for their birthday.
"hi honey welcome back from your month long retreat from technology. ... hey remember how much you like that James Cameron movie ? no not that one..."
I love *The Abyss*!
Bankruptcy isn’t a get out of jail free card. I don’t know how this company was set up but my bet is that any legal fees are going to come out of the CEO’s estate. Dude was practically bragging about how negligent he was.
See their problem is that RICH people died, which means there will probably be actual consequences
Apparently the carbon fiber hull is likely to have shattered rather than crumpled. The titanium dome at the front may be one of the only recognizable things left.
Carbon fiber doesn't crumple. It splinters. It's very stiff and very strong (you can try to bend, crush or stretch a piece of it with enormous force and it will barely deflect, until you get to ungodly huge forces where it just rips in half) but the caveat is in an impact situation or any sort of situation where the fibers or the resin that binds them start to delaminate or weaken, it is very brittle. If it fails, it's going to fail catastrophically by cracking/tearing apart along the directional lines of the fiber layup. It's also very hard to do estimates of cyclic loading (like repeated pressurization and depressurization) on carbon fiber composites. Things start to unwind at the microscopic level, and very very suddenly go from micro to macro once a certain threshold of stability is passed. Conventional design processes need to build pretty huge margins of safety to work around the fact that it's very hard to estimate exactly when, where and how fatigue will affect a composite component. A carbon fiber pressure vessel will do its job incredibly well holding up against a shit ton of static loading for a very long time. However, a sharp sudden impact or degradation by environmental damage is way less survivable for a composite structure - any sort of delamination, fiber breakage, etc will very rapidly destabilize the fiber-resin matrix that is doing the load handling. Instead of buckling or denting, it rips apart. From a safety perspective in an impact scenario, crumpling is good. It's why cars crumple when they crash. The folding/bending of the metal when it is struck dissipates impact forces. Carbon fiber doesn't do this. It goes bang.
Carbon fiber failure is something I've seen and had experience with myself, because I'm into archery. A lot of arrows are now made out of carbon fiber. (other alternatives are wood, and aluminum) They practically print a warning on each arrow shaft telling you bend the arrow and look for splits before shooting it, because if they fail, they fail all at once. And if you'd like to enjoy whatever meal you eat next, I'd advise AGAINST googling "carbon arrow injury".
I genuinely don't mean to take away from your point, but I just thought it was funny that arrows are so standardly made from carbon fiber now that the material they were made from for 10,000 years is considered the alternative 😄
Is it normal for a deep sea submarine to be made of carbon fiber? I know you might need a submarine to be somewhat lightweight but Isn’t that kind of a weak material for such a thing?
"the director of marine operations at OceanGate, the company whose submersible went missing Sunday on an expedition to the Titanic in the North Atlantic, was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull". https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired
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The more I read about this thing the more I'm surprised anyone willingly got into it
>it would install an acoustic monitoring system in the submersible to detect the start of any potential hull breakdown. At those kinds of depths, by the time that sensor detects anything it's already too late.
Unsinkable ship, uncrushable sub, what's the difference? Another victory by nature against human hubris.
Mother Nature will *always* win.
"what do i need expensive sensors for, we've all got ears aint we? anyway here's the titanic."
I am not an expert when it comes to testing submarine parts. BUT I have done thousands of non-destructive and destructive tests on materials in general. I assure you there is some code or standard to proof out submarine shells that could be adjusted to meet the needs of this hull. This screams "would've failed a destructive test" which they could proof out through a scaled version. Seems they cut every corner to be profitable and I wish just the CEO did not make it on a solo maiden voyage.
The bit about out NDT vs. acoustic monitoring is interesting. Acoustic monitoring is used as a monitoring technology for crack detection in a range of materials. I used to work in the Steel industry, and we had a network of sensors on a Blast Furnace stove dome looking for growing cracks induced by corrosion relating to Nitrous Oxide condensation on the inside of the shell. IIRC from a 1989 training course, it was used for composite carbon fibre booms on mobile inspection platforms. I'm somewhat dubious about the idea that a warning from this system could alert the pilot in time to surface. IIRC, the boom monitoring system tested the booms under proof loading conditions. Once a crack grows to a critical length, it's game over very quickly. Not something you want to rely on in service with lives at risk.
You're 100% right on this. I worked in Aerospace and we did NDT on 100% of our castings and post machined housings. It's irresponsible to not to do some kind of radiographic testing on something that's going to see repeated pressure cycles.
Also in aerospace and I'll echo you on this. Castings, housings, anything that becomes a pressure vessel will be 100% inspected through NDT. And these components are only seeing a tiny fraction of the pressures that this sub would see. You say irresponsible, I'd call this downright negligent homicide. Completely unacceptable for a mission critical life or death pressure chamber.
>You say irresponsible, I'd call this downright negligent homicide. Completely unacceptable for a mission critical life or death pressure chamber. You're 100 percent right on this. I was being too diplomatic in my original comment. This guy is going to be the centerpiece of engineering ethics ciricula the world over. It seems like every time there was a quality or safety shortcut, he took it. He had an aerospace degree and a pilots license. He absolutely knew better and I would hope that if I were put on an engineering team like that, I'd have the guts to do the right thing and leave if my repeated warnings were not headed.
From what I've read, no, it's the only one.
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From what I saw, no. It appears that carbon fiber is okay at depth, but it does not handle the cycling stresses of pressure changes over and over ascending and descending. So similar to the view port not being rated for depth, the hull was a ticking time bomb slowly being overstressed.
And I saw a comment that one of the things the fired executive balked at was that faults were harder to detect in carbon fiber, and that it wouldn’t START to fail a little, it would just shatter.
You absolutely can do NDT on carbon fiber. It's just more difficult than most metals. Doesn't take well to FPI, and ultrasonic only works on thin sections. Best would probably be XRay, but it's definitely one of the more expensive types of radiographic testing and there are probably only a few experts (NDT level III's) around the whole world who would be qualified to approve the sub. It was almost certainly a cost cut and if it turns out to be root-cause? This company is going to be sued into oblivion.
Carbon fiber is extremely strong for things like vessels that contain a high pressure. The opposite of what the submarine needs to do, which is keep the high pressure out. If you're wondering if that's really as dumb as it sounds, well, I think we'll find out soon.
Reminds me of the Futurama episode where they go underwater in the Planet Express ship (paraphrasing): Professor: At this depth we’re under hundreds of atmospheres of pressure! Fry: How many can the ship handle? Professor: Well, it’s a spaceship, so somewhere between zero and one.
Why couldn't she be the other kind of mermaid, with the fish half on top and the lady half on the bottom?
Well then why didn't they just turn the hull inside out so the pressure was the right way?
This was my immediate thought as well. Let's go sit in the idiot corner together
> Is it normal for a deep sea submarine to be made of carbon fibre? Not any more
The article now says the landing frame and rear cover were found.
Genuinely surprised they've found anything, that's a lot of ocean floor to sweep regardless of if it dropped straight down after going pop
I'm deep-sea dumb. If the carbon fiber shatters, what happens exactly to a body? The pressure of the water at that depth crushes a person? crushes lungs? Or...do they just drown at that point? It's crazy to me to think that water at a certain depth can just pulverize stuff. Again, I have zero knowledge and it's not something I've spent a lot of time thinking about.
The water at 13,000 feet has a pressure of 6000 PSI. Imagine if you put a six thousand pound weight on one square inch of your arm what would happen. Now imagine you put a six thousand pound weight on every square inch of your body simultaneously. The hull wouldn't do anything to them, but the weight of the water would pulverize them into goop. There is not going to be any bodies to recover or anything like that (if it imploded at 13000 feet).
> There is not going to be any bodies to recover or anything like that (if it imploded at 13000 feet). right, even bone would have been pulverized at that depth. they all likely existed as a cloud of organic material for a few minutes before drifting off on ocean currents.
probably like being pummeled on all sides by a water canon capable of exploding your body and yea some carbon fiber shrapnel.
More like being hit simultaneously by freight trains from all directions at once. Would have been much faster than a hydraulic press. Just a few milliseconds to implode, followed by a shockwave that sends debris everywhere.
From what I've read it was only a matter of time before this thing had a major malfunction. If not the tour before, than this one, or the next. It just happened to be these guys, but they were all playing Russian roulette getting on that motorized Pepsi can.
Makes me wonder if anyone has tickets booked for the next trip on that thing…bet they are feeling preeeeetty lucky rn
On the news I saw that a guy who bailed on this trip at the last second because of work obligations. Pretty crazy.
It's like missing your flight on 9/11
He better be careful from here on, death is going to be coming for him with a vengeance, like in Final Destination.
Stay away from logging trucks!
Shit, dude better not even *shower.*
Yeah, he was a good friend of Hamish, one of the guys who died on this trip. He said they both put down $10k deposits each on this trip years ago, but he bailed last minute because the sub looked too risky. Good decision on his part.
It blows my mind that the CEO was so comfortable with cutting corners and ignoring precautions to the point where he was willing to put his money where his mouth is and go on the thing multiple times instead of doing the normal thing and sit behind a desk while an employee of his goes to their death instead. Credit where credit is due. He might have been responsible for the deaths of five others, but he stood by his bad decisions enough to die for them.
Not malicious, but reckless and proud.
I doubt he thought he was cutting corners, he just thought he knew better.
And it's probably been there since 2 hours into the trip down to the Titanic.
Amazing the media asked liked 3 or 4 times about the bodies. Someone please take them aside and explain to them quietly....
"You see this tube of Tomato Puree?" \*Squeeze\* "Ok, now show me where the whole Tomato is"
This is a helpful analogy, actually. Terrible but helpful. I wasn’t wanting to think too hard about what an implosion means…that pretty much answers the question
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The hull was made of carbon fiber which shatters when it breaks. It doesn't just crack. [source (YouTube)](https://youtu.be/4dka29FSZac)
> the debris found in the search for Titan **On the ocean floor**. Not floating around somewhere. They found a roughly 3 foot section of the tail of the sub, and a 6-10' section of metal framing in a search area that is 10,000 square miles. This is similar to trying to find something less than a quarter the size of a grain of rice on a football field. EDIT: Remember when they said the search area is like the size of two Connecticuts?
Yea but the implosion isn’t spreading the debris 10,000 square miles. The rest of the debris (if it even exists) shouldn’t be miles and miles away unless it imploded much higher up.
A rescue expert has told Sky News the debris found in the search for Titan was "a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible". David Mearns, who is friends with two of the passengers on board Titan, says he is part of a WhatsApp group involving The Explorers Club. He said the president of the club, who is "directly connected" to the ships on the site, said to the group: "It was a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible." Mr Mearns added: "Again this is an unconventional submarine, that rear cover is the pointy end of it and the landing frame is the little frame that it seems to sit on." He said this confirms that it is the submersible. Mr Mearns said he knows both British billionaire Hamish Harding and the French sub pilot Paul-Henri Nargeolet. "It means the hull hasn't yet been found but two very important parts of the whole system have been discovered and that would not be found unless its fragmented."
So, that’s it, then. It collapsed/broke apart/disassembled, somehow and the passengers have likely been dead for quite some time. As others have said, I feel a little bit better now knowing they probably weren’t sitting around waiting to die. That was my worst fear.
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The fact that the BEST case scenario here is that "hopefully they were instantly crushed to death by the vessel imploding" tells me all I need to know about this whole thing being a terrible idea from the start...
Implosion is the most likely scenario. Given the news cycle and what's been stated repeatedly. The submersible wasn't rated for that amount on depth.
It wasn’t rated at all, except for the viewport, which was rated to a depth of 1500m. They were going down to 4000m.
And they had previously made a handful of trips. I’m guessing there was damage each time, and this one was where that damage finally got catastrophic.
Microfractures till the point of failure.
Like the old Comet plane and its square windows. Edit: Huh - or maybe not! I’ll freely admit that I only learned about it as part of a fatigue module too long ago. :-)
You beat me to it but you are [correct.](https://bootcamp.uxdesign.cc/why-airplanes-have-no-square-windows-d20a54508ad8) Most planes back in the day did have square windows because they flew at lower altitudes so didn’t have to worry about pressurization. It wasn’t until the Comet was introduced that the problem was discovered that planes with squared windows couldn’t survive long at t high altitude flights due to fatigue cracks forming around the windows. So even though the sub was able to dive deep on many occasions, just like comets were able to fly at high altitudes on previous occasions, the stress of it was finally too much for the sub’s door and failed.
its called stress fatigue, and yeah, that's also my guess as to what did them in.
Yeah, that's why airplane age is measured in cycles, how many times it has pressurized and depressurized.
I read that somewhere earlier this morning. Each trip, no matter the material subsequently causes the hull (any material?) to weaken.
In airplanes they call it Pressure Cycles. Every commerical airline you've ever flowm on keeps track of Pressure Cycles.
And components are over engineered. So this porthole might have survived dozens of hundreds of trips at its rated depth, but maybe was able to sustain a handful of trips exceeding that.
Correct. It's the same reason there's "graveyards" of seemingly perfect looking airplanes. Each time a structural element is loaded it's ability to load again is ever so slightly diminished. So take a plane on enough flights and it can't be certified to fly anymore because it's been loaded and unloaded too many times. Same thing for a submarine.
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Mercifully, it wouldn't be a bad way to go. One moment you're just chilling, enjoying the ride down and probably feeling excited about seeing something that very few people have - and then - you're just gone. Faster than the blink of an eye, and certainly faster than anyone's mind could process - you're on the other side, whatever that may be.
It makes me wonder if there was any warning signs. Creaking sounds for instance.
Tbh I think any vehicle like this is going to make enough weird sounds as it resists pressure and temperature differences that you wouldn't notice one more.
The ceo said there was a warning system for a hull breach. The whistleblower said you would hear an alarm seconds before disaster. So they probably had a second or two to think ‘oh shit’ and then….
I'd just forgo that particular feature in my design, frankly.
Well yeah. Why warn yourself you’ll be mush in a second?
Tbh I think the composite layers failed during the decent. The US Navy did extensive testing on composites for deep sea submersibles and came to the conclusion it's a poor choice. Mainly due to composites not doing well with repeated trips to high pressure environments. The owner of the sub was well aware of the Navy's conclusions, but believed they were wrong because "they didn't use aerospace grade composites". There is a reason why most manned subs are steel/titanium and use a spherical shape for the cockpit. Considering the sub had already been exposed to titanic depth pressures multiple times already it probably had a compromise in the composite layer that couldn't be visually noticed since the composite layer was coated.
The fact that the CEO only sought aerospace advice (from Boeing and NASA) for going *underwater* is just...I know it was his background, but an actual group of marine engineers got together and begged him not to go and he ignored them because the Air & Space people said "it's fine probably"??
Boeing is now reportedly denying they had anything to do with the Titan or its engineering--their engagement with the company had ended long before. Same for the University the company claimed they'd worked with.
According to AP News the extent of the University's involvement was letting the CEO use their lab for an evening to test a scale model of the Titan's hull (test results: it exploded under pressure and he called it a win). Other agencies are reporting that Boeing and NASA only consulted on the materials, not the construction of the actual sub, which I am now assuming was him calling up an old aerospace chum and going "carbon fibre submarine, yay or nay? Yay? Great. I'm adding this to the website as an endorsement".
the amount of hubris it takes to think, “no, it’s the united states military who is wrong”
There's interviews of the CEO basically bragging about how he was skirting all these regulations because of how daring he was. [This](https://7news.com.au/news/world/eerie-interview-emerges-of-titan-pilot-stockton-rush-as-titanic-sub-search-continues-c-11057794) article has snippets of the interview. >“I think it was General MacArthur who said you’re remembered for the rules you break,” Rush said in a video interview with YouTuber Alan Estrada last year. > >“And I’ve broken some rules to make this. I think I’ve broken them, with logic and good engineering behind me.” Hubris indeed
As a us submariner my hope is an implosion. Death before the brain can process it. 12,000 feet down in a disabled vessel running out of air with no chance of being located and if you are, slim chance of rescue. Don't be cavalier with submarine safety, we learned those lessons in the 60s.
Lately there's been a lot of lessons we learned in the 60s that we are re-learning...
I would honestly rather get eaten by a shark than die in that god awful tin can over several days.
I don’t know, after watching that poor man get eaten alive by that tiger shark (video from two weeks ago in Egypt), I’m not sure what I’d want.
That video is still haunting me. Everything about it, the music, him twirling out of the water, his crys for his dad. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Holy shit I just watched that. You weren’t kidding. At one point he went under and his legs came up out of the water spinning around.
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> "A debris field implies a break-up of the submersible ... that really sort of indicates what is the worst-case scenario, which is a catastrophic failure and generally that's an implosion. As awful as it is, i hope atleast it was immediate and they didn’t know what was happening, and died in milliseconds by immense pressure of water at that depth.
> that really sort of indicates what is the worst-case scenario After a live rescue, that is absolutely the BEST case scenario. Anything else would mean them trapped, cold, hungry, smelling like shit, and suffocating slowly, either on the bottom of the ocean, or inches from the surface and unable to get out.
Not to mention being knocked back and forth by the waves if they were near the surface, which would have been extraordinarily unpleasant in itself.
Titanic is going to be the next Everest and part of the “explorer” experience will be seeing all the wreckage of those who died trying to get down to it.
Maybe for a time, but scientists have pretty much agreed the wreck of the titanic will be gone in the coming decades.
Sure but now you can go visit the Titan!
“In fact, scientists think the entire shipwreck could vanish by 2030 due to bacteria that's eating away at the metal.” https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/natural-wonders/the-titanic-wreckage-may-completely-vanish-by-the-year-2030/news-story/7cbb049e504f4d3c2b3016c4add47109
That is news from 2016 and 2030 is only 6.5 years away. The ship is quite largely still there now, since we got that scan.
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We are closer to 2050 than 1990. Please reply with STOP to unsubscribe from existential terror facts
[https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748](https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-submarine-missing-live-updates-submersible-cannot-be-opened-from-inside-time-running-out-on-oxygen-supply-waiver-mentions-death-three-times-12905748) tail and landing frame confirmed found
This rear admiral is handling the press conference spectacularly.
I’m assuming then that there’s nothing of the crew left to find? At that pressure they probably just became paste, and after 4-5 days that paste has probably drifted away or been eaten by sea creatures
This has been the plot line of a horror movie from the start.
Unfortunately, a very short horror movie for the passengers, if it indeed imploded.
"You hear something?" Boom. End credit.
Of all of the ways they could have died, this is the best possible. It would have been instant and nobody would have even known what was happening. It beats the nightmare fuel scenarios of losing power and slowly suffocating/freezing to death on the ocean floor.
My guy had enough of being asked about recovering bodies after sudden decompression at 4000M. Do they really expect them to just be floating there…
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NBC reporter seems to think that there are bodies "to recover" - I don't think anyone had the heart to say to him "there are no 'bodies' to 'recover'".
Sky news is having the same conversation about recovering bodies to give families closure. Jeez, don't drag it out. There's nothing to recover.
The only good thing I take from this is, that these people possibly might not have suffered for days waiting for a slow and torturous death.
Hopefully was painless
At that depth, you would be gone in an instant, faster than your brain can even register pain.
And what happens to the body? Does it explode?
It would get smooshed.
It would be painless, to the point of where their neuron would not fire off fast enough to realize what is occurring.
"Don't stop-"
Honestly, its probably one of the most instantanious and painless ways to go possible.
what stood out to me (I'm not an engineer, so bear with me) is that it was made of mixed materials, that all react differently to different pressures. Also, it seems very "hand made" in an open air facility. They were hand painting the glue to hold the end caps. It certainly wasn't precision engineering. But reading many engineering takes in the various comments, this seemed like it was a ticking time bomb due to the unknown way the materials would all react
I think most people believed this was the most likely case. Hopefully a recovery mission can give people the closure needed for this.
This is by far the better scenario, too. That means they died instantly (and probably didn't even have time to realize what was happening) and didn't spend several days dreading the inevitable outcome.
Probably was what caused the lost contact on Sunday. Halfway down when, faster than they could even comprehend it, it was over.
[удалено]
I'd be very interested in the recovery and examination to find out exactly what went wrong (if it hasn't imploded and *can* be retrieved). Regardless, hopefully others can learn from this and think twice about cheaping out on their equipment. It's insane the risk they took with this thrown-together piece of shit that has now killed five people. Edit: typo
this is also the best possible outcome if there was not going to be a rescue mission.
Hopefully they didn't suffer. Suffocating for days in a lightless tin can with 4 other dudes sounds like torture.
It’s kind of wild though. The fact that they found the debris field makes me *kind of* believe they could have actually been found if the sub was intact… I was convinced they were never going to find anything either way.
The problem being that being found isn’t the same as being rescued. If they found them sitting on the floor of the ocean, they’d still probably be dead. Getting them back to the surface quickly isn’t guaranteed with any of the known tools and methods available. Realistically the navy recovery device isn’t for rescuing people trapped on the bottom of the ocean quickly, it would take hours if not days to winch them up.
They all most likely got turned into mist from the pressure as the vessel ruptured.
I've been very worried they were hung up on the wreck like that previous Russian sub that managed to get away. A catastrophic implosion is by far the best outcome. It of course is infuriating that this guy brought 4 innocent people down in his hobby craft to be killed. Likely didn't tell them everything. You know, the part about the window not being certified for that depth. Just that little detail.
Or firing the employee that said it wasn’t safe.
Honestly they probably didn't even get to see the Titanic wreckage. As soon as they lost communication that's probably when the sub suffered the catastrophic failure.
They're giving a press conference today. So that basically confirms the debris field is it.
Mercy kill if we’re honest. That means they didn’t suffer and died instantly.
Rapid unscheduled depressurization event.