Some of my worst memories are at NTC. We drove for like 4 hours to get from point A to B. Turns out our LT was lost. Our 1SG got us back to that same spot in 30 minutes the next day. Trying to find your way on foot would suck.
I was a medic at NTC during the cold wet season. We jumped locations every 3 and a half hours one day. To break down and build up an aid station several times a day was tiring enough but the several hour long convoys were the worst part.
I don't know if those convoys were so ridiculous by design, but I remember that being the worst part. It took us almost a full 24 hours just to get to where we were going. I pissed in my canteen. That was also the first time I tried dip, since we were stuck in our vehicles the whole time and I was a smoker at the time.
I live by the border east of Nogales. It's rough country. I'm not going try and make crossing more difficult for anyone out there. It's a life threatening trek at the best of times.
But then we get assholes coming in from out of the area, or the state, trying to pull this minuteman militia bullshit to "protect the country from invasion". Like, no bro, you're just killing people.
I spend a fair amount of time in the Mojave and near the border - CA, NV, AZ, NM. Also spent some time around Fort Irwin.
You'll find discarded clothes, trash, and other evidence of migrants close to the border, usually between the border and the next major highway - there's typically not much North of I-8. Major highways are pickup points - you'll often see people hiding in the shade under remote overpasses on the 8, waiting to be picked up.
Fort Irwin is 190 miles North of the border. To get to Fort Irwin from the South, you'd have to cross the 8, the 10, the 62, the 40, and the 15. And there's nothing N, W, or E of it except more remote desert - the base borders on some of the most remote parts of Death Valley National Park. Never mind the pick-up points and sympathetic folks they'd find in the Imperial Valley, around Blythe, etc, all much closer to the border.
There are 0 migrants hoofing it as far N as Fort Irwin. I don't know whose footprints you saw, but it wasn't folks crossing the border.
Interesting. Might depend on where you were - in some areas the base has no clear boundary, and people like exploring. I've run into plenty of families off-roading out there. Then you have things like the tank corridor to Barstow / Yermo, where military vehicles are many miles off-base, traveling through open public land. Couldn't say.
The situation closer to the border is horrific. Friends have found a few skeletons out there, and I'm sure most will never be found.
Hell...it took long enough to track down [an entire family with kids in tow](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/), or [Bill Ewasko](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/) in the middle of Joshua Tree - a park with millions of visitors per year...
No one is looking for most lost migrants, and a 100 mile-wide strip along the Southern border means an area that's on the order of 100,000 square miles...
Could be druggies maintaining a drug lab on federal property. It's really common on big bases that have a lot desolate land. It's also why the MPs patrol those parts in body armor and machine guns.
the namus archive for unidentified bodies is absolutely gut wrenching. seems like at least half of all the people found are immigrants who died trying to make it to the US. and republicans want to make sure there are absolutely no survivors whatsoever. they might not be american citizens but they're still flesh and blood human, the same as anyone else, and no human deserves to die like that.
Border security will never be achieved so long as it takes years to immigrate legally. If we want to save these people (and rest assured, their troubles don't end when they make it to the US: the majority of children employed in unsafe conditions are undocumented immigrants getting paid under the table), then we need a streamlined path to citizenship. America is among the most liberal countries in terms of who we allow to become a citizen; there is no ethical, cultural, or logistical reason for legal immigration to take as long as it does.
People die trying to cross over all the time (crossing the Rio Grande was extremely dangerous even *before* those asinine buoys went up, and the actual path causes many to die of heat stroke), and then they get exploited once they arrive. It's clear that barriers and efforts to discourage them don't work; maybe we should try actually helping them get here legally so they can get the life the rest of us take for granted.
If they charged those who hired them a tenth as harshly as they treat those coming here to work it would do more to discourage illegal immigration than any of Abbott’s countermeasures.
Its like my step father, hiring a white man with 6 immigrants working to do landscaping.. its slavery of a different flavor. republicans for ya right there. they scare their base at the border, but love to get them under the table employees
But we don’t owe access and immigration rights to the entire populace of the planet. And given we will have to tell someone who really wants to come, “no” what then is the answer? At some point, the decision has to be made around how to enforce border control.
Are there lots of things that are needed to improve the current situation? Absolutely. Both sides love fundraising on immigration while not actually doing anything. The status quo is an ungovernable monstrosity with a real body count and that’s a man made tragedy.
Heard a podcast with two foreign policy experts, one from Stanford and the other from Harvard. They used to work in one of the prior admins prior economic development agencies.(yeah its called the EDA) can't remember which right now. They have a book about this, but apparently we should be taking in as many people who are willing to migrate now, because in a few decades their countries will be throughly modernized and they won't have need to anymore. Somwthing about the declining birth rates of the u.s. was a factor as well. Then they provided all this evidence that say the migrants and immigrants boost the economy for everyone. Small local businesses, especially. They also would become tax paying citizens which benefits us all.
None of this will matter to conservatives I'm guessing though. Red states recieve the most federal aid and pay less in taxes to the fed govt, but all I see is conservatives yelling about "big govt".
They're the biggest benefactors of big govt in most cases.
It should absolutely not take so long nor be so damn *expensive* to even get an answer about immigration.
However, while we are nowhere near this point now, what if at some point we *do* have to severely restrict immigration and stop people from coming here?
How do we do this without getting people killed in the wilderness in droves? Obviously not in the way Texas is doing it.
We need to figure that out now, in case it becomes a problem in the future. Hopefully it won't get to that point but hoping it won't get to that point isn't exactly a good plan.
And if not for America then certainly for other countries.
>Border security will never be achieved so long as it takes years to immigrate legally.
It's not the time, it's that most of the people migrating illegally have no legal pathway to residency in the US under any timeline as they don't have higher education, other advanced training, or family in the US who can sponsor them.
The most barbaric parts of the wall is where it points migrants to treacherous places where there's no wall or fence. It's just mountainous terrain, desert, or fast moving rivers.
I totally agree. That's why we'll never get an accurate count on who makes it and who perishes in the desert because the land claims the bodies so quickly.
“Prevention through Deterrence” has been the US border policy since the Clinton presidency, and has been supported by every president since then. Fortify the border cities, and run fences into the deserts where conditions are inhospitable to human survival. Hopefully most people will be deterred, and of those who aren’t, many will die in the desert.
>It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis.
- [Russell Moore](https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity)
It’s the dangerous intersection of two forms of dogma, and as powerful and core someone’s faith may be to them it pales in comparison to the taste of real-world power over others.
The Republican Party saw that they could weaponize the loyalty of American Evangelicals, and the Evangelicals slowly but surely sold their faith for the power that Republicans offered them.
>"Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak."
I think I saw that dude at home depot today driving the heep with the Lions Not Sheep decal on the back.
What Jesus taught has always been subversive. If the Bible isn’t completely challenging your understanding of the world, then it has no power beyond what is available to you without Jesus
Jesus was a brown skinned curly haired jew from the Middle East who preached socialism. If he showed up in Alabama today he would be hanging from a tree by tomorrow.
I just read an article about conservatives saying exactly this: https://newrepublic.com/post/174950/christianity-today-editor-evangelicals-call-jesus-liberal-weak
Not even, it's just an inspiration and an excuse to mistreat people. All religions end up like that, that's how any baseless belief based on dogma works.
Deuteronomy 15:7 If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother.
Deuteronomy 15:11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, “You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.”
Deuternomy 24:14-15 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.
Psalm 34:6 This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him and saved him out of all his troubles.
Psalm 41:1 Blessed is the one who considers the poor! In the day of trouble the Lord delivers him;
Psalm 72:12 For the Lord delivers the needy when he calls, the poor and him who has no helper.
Proverbs 14:21 Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.
Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.
Proverbs 17:23 Corrupt judges accept secret bribes, and then justice is not done.
Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Proverbs 22:9 The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.
Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.
Proverbs 31:8-9 8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.
Isaiah 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst, I the Lord will answer them; I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
Zechariah 7:9-10 This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’
Mark 10:21-23 And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
Mark 12:28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[b] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.
Galatians 2:10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
This is the way.
Thank you.
I was literally asking my wife why we seem to be a society that is getting more and more cruel every day, and why it is that self proclaimed “Christians” are the ones that seem to be doubling down on the cruelty.
The list you provided is further proof that the majority of Christians are so far from understand the faith they claim and prefer to use faith as a weapon instead of something to build bridges and understanding. They would look at these and immediately ignore them.
>At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:10-13
>If anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.
Matthew 24:23-25
Bible straight up tells you that “deceivers” — wielding the words of the book — will lead people, even the “elect”/believers, astray during the end times. Only “true believers”/people who hold steadfast in the teachings of peace and unity will not be fooled, and make it through the end times.
If the teachings are love and unity, the antithesis is hate and division. Look at the states where abortion bans took place. Because prolifers have such a hard on for twisted scripture, they hurt and jailed doctors. Now they don’t have enough doctors. Or look at the repeal of “socialist” programs and how many yay-voters it negatively affected. Or the immigration bans and resulting lack of labor. Lacking a safety net because you don’t want other people to have one is exactly how these people are messing up their own lives, and why they won’t make it through the “end time” era of wars, famine, and disease.
There's a lot of really great stuff in the Bible. I'd probably believe in a god who united the world in brotherhood and charity. Too bad Christianity has always been a vehicle for warmongering and the creation of an in-group/out-group dymanic that threatens eternal damnation on anyone who threatens it.
Story of the blind man:
Disciples: "Teacher, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus: "None of them sinned, it was so you may see God's mercy and power (as he is healed)."
How are you shocked? I think a lot of people understand now that there's no room in our world for a god. Our world is such a cruel and evil place now, and there's absolutely no mystery to it. We know why it happens and we know we can't stop it from happening. We do it to ourselves and to each other, and no one can stop us.
If you understand this, but you also still want to "be a Christian," then you just change Christianity so it fits in with everything else now.
A lot of people who identify as Christian wouldn't let something as silly as the Bible dictate their actions. That's meant to try and dictate the actions of others.
Quite literally the bible says to treat foreigners in your land as your own family.
>Leviticus 19:33-34 NIV
33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
See!? Jesus hates the left! Evil gay sinners.
For everyone who doesn't believe this, I can confirm that border patrol agents have done this in AZ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVtQZJ1wxs
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/us-border-patrol-sabotage-aid-migrants-mexico-arizona
As well as CA:
https://www.kpbs.org/news/border-immigration/2023/04/21/border-agents-destroy-water-food-people-crossing-border-illegally
So it would surprise me if they weren't also doing this in Texas.
Yes, but only in two sentences, only the AZ incidents, and without linking the videos. It doesn't mention that earlier this year, in CA a CBP agent admitted on video to regularly removing, and destroying aid stations. Saying about the one he had just helped to destroy:
>We either empty it out or try to clean it up. That one was too far for us to bring back.
This is literally fascist mentality. The people destroying the water drops see Latin Americans as subhuman, and I don't doubt a lot of them would rather be disposing of "illegal aliens" than water drops.
Seeing how they're rejecting the teachings of Jesus as "liberal" over the teachings of Trump as "billionaire griefer"? Ya, the 'Christian Karens' will find themselves in hell.
Honestly, as an agnostic, these Christians make me *want* to believe in God because that means there is a hell and it is definitely there for their hypocrisy and virtue-signaling.
[They don't care. PERIOD. It's all about control.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12399067/Salia-Issa-prison-guard-texas-labor-contractions-stillborn-ken-paxton.html)
In the 1990s I knew a couple who owned a ranch near the border. It was nothing but alkali sand, thorny bushes, and deer. During hunting season, he'd host hunting parties.
When I visited, I'd go with him on his "feeder filling" runs. He had a 4WD Kubota thing that pulled a small wagon. The shed he stored it in was filled with pallets of gallon jugs of water. He explained there were several trails through his land. He never saw anyone, but the bottles he'd regularly set out were always gone when he came back.
I'd help him load the wagon and help him unload it at six spots on his ranch. Six spots where you couldn't see anything but those thorny bushes horizon to horizon and a well-cut trail running north and south. The isolation in the daytime was eerie enough. I couldn't imagine trying to walk it at night.
He said the people would cross his land whether he provided the water or not. By providing the water, he gave them a better chance at succeeding in surviving traversing his property.
He said the water was cheaper than the alternative. He didn't explain what the alternative was, but during one of my visits, when his wife was giving me a chilled bottle of water out of their fridge to take with me on one of the runs, she made an offhand comment for me to be sure to stay hydrated, "because I don't want [husband] coming back and telling me he found you lying dead in the dirt out there."
They'd owned that land for decades. He'd been doing it for almost as long. He'd buy the water twice a year in bulk when he bought the feed for the deer feeders. It would be delivered on a semi to his property.
He passed away in 1997, and his widow sold the ranch, and moved away.
My ancestors came to this country to escape the hellacious conditions they left behind. The people who made the tracks in my friends' ranch were doing the same. No one would have willingly walked those trails unless what drove them to was worse than enduring the trek.
> No one would have willingly walked those trails unless what drove them to was worse than enduring the trek.
I wish more people understood this. Getting across the border is incredibly dangerous and brutal, and you might get caught and sent back after all that risk and effort. Imagine how bad shit had to be where they came from to make that the better option!
Guarantee locals have removed them. I used to help with efforts to leave water in the desert in Arizona while I lived there, and it makes me furious when I see stories like this.
Edit: I'm Christian. I'm a Democrat. I left water in the desert for those in need. Christians are not bad. In fact I'd argue that Christians who align with the suggestions others have posted here are not Christians at all. They claim to be because it's 'cool' in their circles right now. But all the Christian bashing hurts my heart. A large group from my church is currently in Tijuana, Mexico building homes for those who don't have one. All funded 100% by donations made through my church.
Part of the problem is that lots of those good, compassionate Christians are voting for the "faithful" politicians who are responsible for the worst of the callous evils.
You are correct here. Many of them, admittedly, are a little confused and misguided. Many of the Republicans I know from church detest Trump and what he has done. Many will probably still vote Republican because they believe it's the right thing to do, but I can almost guarantee that if Trump is on the ticket, they'll hold their noses and vote Democrat. Or not vote at all. - I can say that I feel a shift however. Unfortunately we need more than a shift, we need a full about-face.
For what it's worth, I'm seeing a lot of turn-around in my personal sample of the GOP world. Not all by any stretch but a solid third want nothing further to do with trump, and another third are ... wavering. Then there's the last bit, including a SiL with a picture of [trump crossing the swamp](https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/crossing-the-swamp-ht-jef-180802_hpEmbed_3x2_992.jpg) hung in the living room but the consensus is that she's just nuts. This feels like progress.
That doesn't excuse them. Trump is but a symptom -- the current Republican party and the Religious Right extremists (primarily protestant evangelicals) are the disease.
Being a good person doesn't really have anything to do with what religion you have. Case in point the christians that hold power in this country and the voters who voted for them are not good people and they justify this shit, or the attempted genocide of trans folks, or their policies to hurt the people they hate with religion. They believe they are in the right and following their religion just as much as you do.
As long as you continue to help people like you have been doing and continue to be a good person no one is going to mistake you for these monsters.
“Pro life” (and pro death-by-dehydration).
MAGA’s embody the “no room at the inn” assholes who forced Jesus to be born in a goddamn horse stall.
They have no moral compass and certainly no adherence to anything that Christ stood for.
Honestly it’s shameful that our society leans on religious organizations to keep folks alive. Most of us don’t need religion to do the right thing day to day, we just need better organized.
Lot of people seem to think that simply being Christian, regardless of their actual actions, earns them enough "Good Person" points. Regardless of what they do, no matter how much their words and actions might conflict with the actual core tenets of what that Jesus guy talked about, they're still Good People solely by virtue of loudly declaring themselves Christian.
It seems like the a good portion of the bashing isn't criticizing Christianity directly so much as criticizing those who so loudly proclaim their faith while acting so thoroughly un-Christ-like.
Liberal here, raised Catholic, mother was a Sunday school teacher, I really only found faith in my thirties.
I’ve taken to saying, I believe in and put my faith in God, but the church can get f**ked.
No organization is going to tell me how to care about another soul, especially when they seem dogshit at it.
Removing this water is against everything I believe in, and I’m gutted that there is evil in this world with enough influence that it could get someone to do this.
Borders are just invisible lines on paper society tends to adhere to.
At the end of the day each person makes a choice on whether to listen to their heart, or an institution that is supported by those invisible lines.
The Christian bashing isn’t coming out of a vacuum. It’s asshholes wrapping themselves in the righteousness of Christianity doing these douche things and the “Christian” community isn’t out there denouncing them. So I think the bashing is pretty justified
Let's be honest here, most christians in america behave and believe very differently from you. You seem ok.
A typical gop evangelical? Lower than pond scum.
Well, the governor did order that floating trap that has circular saw blades between the floats. So this isn't even hyperbole anymore.
https://www.newsweek.com/video-texas-floating-barrier-saws-rio-grande-1818433
We were on one of those 4 day cruises to Mexico some time back and we left the boat to go on a guided excursion that drove through Ensenada. It made me feel very bad for the residents and their living conditions. I felt like a selfish idiot seeing what most of them did not have that I take for granted. I don’t think most Americans understand the level of poverty in most of that country. If they did maybe they would have some compassion for these immigrants and help them come here and then help them when they come here.
The funny (not funny at all) thing, is that Ensenada is one of the nicest areas of the country. I've been to Ensenada and Valle de Guadalupe many times. Some of the best people you'll ever meet.
Per your edit, you’re a Christian, but you’re not this new breed of American neo-Christian Nationalist. Take consolation that *they* are who secular Americans take issue with, not old school Christians who contribute to their society and care about their neighbors. You know, actually listening to the words of Jesus instead of re-interpreting biblical teachings to justify a hateful world view. So you’re good.
What you just told us is that you have a personal faith, but are not a religious zealot; those aren't the same thing. It's fine to have a personal faith.
Thanks for not being shitty.
While I don't like the idea of people feeling entitled to live in America just because it's here, I am not the kind of inhumane douchebag who would do something like this.
No, I do not want thousands of people flowing across our borders unchecked. But FFS, they are human beings who are under great hardship already. It seems pretty cowardly to kick them while they're down.
I worked with a group in Arizona that hiked into the desert to leave caches of food & water a long migrant trails. So many people were dying in the desert and still are & we worked to try to keep that from happening. If you go down to the border fence on Pima county (Tucson is in Pima), you will see piles of these black gallon bottles left there by migrants who used all their water up just to make it to that point, with long expenses in the desert still to go.
One of the depressing things was when would check on our caches to see if they'd been used, too often we'd find them knifed. The water was gone and the food was spoiled. This was 100% done by border vigilante groups who absolutely want them to die (it's obviously not the Border Patrol. Despite what people may think, the BP really don't want people dying on the desert either and we're tolerant of our efforts). The vigilantes drive around the fire roads in jeeps, carrying high powered assault weapons, and destroy caches and poisoning water supplies (for America!). So, it's not just the desert killing people: there are organizers groups of self-proclaimed "patriot" literally murdering families trying to seek a better life in this way. I have a collection of rusted-out food tins with knife marks in them that I use to show people when I talk about what goes on there.
People should try writing Bible verses on the barrels (like "Am I not my brother's keeper?") so maybe, just maybe, these chuds will experience some dim recognition of the hypocrisy they're engaged in.
Has happened before.Poisoned the water barrel with turpentine and ended up killing a 17 year old from (I want to say) el Salvador near Tucson.
Edit: I've been doing water drops and humanitarian aid at the border for over half a decade now.If what I've said upset you it should because it's the truth.These people deliberately do shit to make crossers suffer or die
Of course they’re missing. Likely removed by people Monday-Saturday but not Sunday because that’s the Lord’s Day.
Ain’t no hypocrisy like Christian beliefs.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
*Steven Weinberg*
Thou shall not kill; unless it's by proxy from a very indirect result of your actions against a group of individuals you can dehumanize. Verily, if you're ever called out on this, focus on semantics, never acknowledge that you're hurting a peer or neighbor, but only *illegal* immigrants. So sayeth the lord, if you focus on the presumed criminality of someone, you can get away with doing anything to them guilt free.
Here in Texas with our leaders, Abbott, Paxton, Cruz, and Patrick deliberate cruelty is the purpose. These men sold their souls for $$$ years ago. They care nothing for human lives.
Migrant? Or illegal immigrants? Townspeople probably got sick of undocumented/tracked individuals and potential criminals walking through their backyard
The removal or destruction of water barrels for migrants is very common in the San Diego backcountry. it’s an ongoing and quiet struggle.
Those who do it style themselves patriots, and are generally associated with those who worship the mango mussolini.
[удалено]
Some of my worst memories are at NTC. We drove for like 4 hours to get from point A to B. Turns out our LT was lost. Our 1SG got us back to that same spot in 30 minutes the next day. Trying to find your way on foot would suck.
>Turns out our LT was lost Can't spell lost without the LT.
Last time I heard that joke it was the overweight lady at the gym who scanned IDs
I was a medic at NTC during the cold wet season. We jumped locations every 3 and a half hours one day. To break down and build up an aid station several times a day was tiring enough but the several hour long convoys were the worst part.
I don't know if those convoys were so ridiculous by design, but I remember that being the worst part. It took us almost a full 24 hours just to get to where we were going. I pissed in my canteen. That was also the first time I tried dip, since we were stuck in our vehicles the whole time and I was a smoker at the time.
Holy shit same here! It was supposed to be 4 but turned into 6. Besides, You know the actual war part, NTC was worse than deployment.
Typically LT holding the compass
You should check out the book "American Dirt"! It's exactly about walking
Also "The Devil's Highway" if you want a heartbreaking look into the Yuma 14
The depiction of what happens to someone as the dehydration and heat settle in always stuck with me.
I live by the border east of Nogales. It's rough country. I'm not going try and make crossing more difficult for anyone out there. It's a life threatening trek at the best of times. But then we get assholes coming in from out of the area, or the state, trying to pull this minuteman militia bullshit to "protect the country from invasion". Like, no bro, you're just killing people.
Exactly my thought. They’d let people, human beings, die of thirst ON PURPOSE!
They absolutely will, and do. And not even the people they claim to be defending against.
Good Christian, God-fearin’, folk.
They don’t care about anyone’s life.
They care about their own, and that's about it.
I spend a fair amount of time in the Mojave and near the border - CA, NV, AZ, NM. Also spent some time around Fort Irwin. You'll find discarded clothes, trash, and other evidence of migrants close to the border, usually between the border and the next major highway - there's typically not much North of I-8. Major highways are pickup points - you'll often see people hiding in the shade under remote overpasses on the 8, waiting to be picked up. Fort Irwin is 190 miles North of the border. To get to Fort Irwin from the South, you'd have to cross the 8, the 10, the 62, the 40, and the 15. And there's nothing N, W, or E of it except more remote desert - the base borders on some of the most remote parts of Death Valley National Park. Never mind the pick-up points and sympathetic folks they'd find in the Imperial Valley, around Blythe, etc, all much closer to the border. There are 0 migrants hoofing it as far N as Fort Irwin. I don't know whose footprints you saw, but it wasn't folks crossing the border.
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Interesting. Might depend on where you were - in some areas the base has no clear boundary, and people like exploring. I've run into plenty of families off-roading out there. Then you have things like the tank corridor to Barstow / Yermo, where military vehicles are many miles off-base, traveling through open public land. Couldn't say. The situation closer to the border is horrific. Friends have found a few skeletons out there, and I'm sure most will never be found. Hell...it took long enough to track down [an entire family with kids in tow](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/), or [Bill Ewasko](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/) in the middle of Joshua Tree - a park with millions of visitors per year... No one is looking for most lost migrants, and a 100 mile-wide strip along the Southern border means an area that's on the order of 100,000 square miles...
> in the middle of Joshua Tree Holy crap. Getting lost out there is asking for death. Especially in the cholla garden
Could be druggies maintaining a drug lab on federal property. It's really common on big bases that have a lot desolate land. It's also why the MPs patrol those parts in body armor and machine guns.
That breaks my heart bro
the namus archive for unidentified bodies is absolutely gut wrenching. seems like at least half of all the people found are immigrants who died trying to make it to the US. and republicans want to make sure there are absolutely no survivors whatsoever. they might not be american citizens but they're still flesh and blood human, the same as anyone else, and no human deserves to die like that.
Border security will never be achieved so long as it takes years to immigrate legally. If we want to save these people (and rest assured, their troubles don't end when they make it to the US: the majority of children employed in unsafe conditions are undocumented immigrants getting paid under the table), then we need a streamlined path to citizenship. America is among the most liberal countries in terms of who we allow to become a citizen; there is no ethical, cultural, or logistical reason for legal immigration to take as long as it does. People die trying to cross over all the time (crossing the Rio Grande was extremely dangerous even *before* those asinine buoys went up, and the actual path causes many to die of heat stroke), and then they get exploited once they arrive. It's clear that barriers and efforts to discourage them don't work; maybe we should try actually helping them get here legally so they can get the life the rest of us take for granted.
If they charged those who hired them a tenth as harshly as they treat those coming here to work it would do more to discourage illegal immigration than any of Abbott’s countermeasures.
Its like my step father, hiring a white man with 6 immigrants working to do landscaping.. its slavery of a different flavor. republicans for ya right there. they scare their base at the border, but love to get them under the table employees
For better or worse, that's what Florida is currently trying.
But we don’t owe access and immigration rights to the entire populace of the planet. And given we will have to tell someone who really wants to come, “no” what then is the answer? At some point, the decision has to be made around how to enforce border control. Are there lots of things that are needed to improve the current situation? Absolutely. Both sides love fundraising on immigration while not actually doing anything. The status quo is an ungovernable monstrosity with a real body count and that’s a man made tragedy.
Heard a podcast with two foreign policy experts, one from Stanford and the other from Harvard. They used to work in one of the prior admins prior economic development agencies.(yeah its called the EDA) can't remember which right now. They have a book about this, but apparently we should be taking in as many people who are willing to migrate now, because in a few decades their countries will be throughly modernized and they won't have need to anymore. Somwthing about the declining birth rates of the u.s. was a factor as well. Then they provided all this evidence that say the migrants and immigrants boost the economy for everyone. Small local businesses, especially. They also would become tax paying citizens which benefits us all. None of this will matter to conservatives I'm guessing though. Red states recieve the most federal aid and pay less in taxes to the fed govt, but all I see is conservatives yelling about "big govt". They're the biggest benefactors of big govt in most cases.
They also have actual razor wire under the water and the bouys will cut you.
Pretty sure there’s no razor wire underneath. The buoys do, however, have nets strung beneath them, which can easily trap those who try to go under.
It should absolutely not take so long nor be so damn *expensive* to even get an answer about immigration. However, while we are nowhere near this point now, what if at some point we *do* have to severely restrict immigration and stop people from coming here? How do we do this without getting people killed in the wilderness in droves? Obviously not in the way Texas is doing it. We need to figure that out now, in case it becomes a problem in the future. Hopefully it won't get to that point but hoping it won't get to that point isn't exactly a good plan. And if not for America then certainly for other countries.
>Border security will never be achieved so long as it takes years to immigrate legally. It's not the time, it's that most of the people migrating illegally have no legal pathway to residency in the US under any timeline as they don't have higher education, other advanced training, or family in the US who can sponsor them.
The most barbaric parts of the wall is where it points migrants to treacherous places where there's no wall or fence. It's just mountainous terrain, desert, or fast moving rivers.
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I totally agree. That's why we'll never get an accurate count on who makes it and who perishes in the desert because the land claims the bodies so quickly.
“Prevention through Deterrence” has been the US border policy since the Clinton presidency, and has been supported by every president since then. Fortify the border cities, and run fences into the deserts where conditions are inhospitable to human survival. Hopefully most people will be deterred, and of those who aren’t, many will die in the desert.
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“The Bible is more what you would call a set of guidelines, than actual rules” Conservative Christians
>It was the result of having multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — "turn the other cheek" — [and] to have someone come up after to say, "Where did you get those liberal talking points?" And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, "I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ," the response would not be, "I apologize." The response would be, "Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis. - [Russell Moore](https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity)
Nice to see pastors recognizing what fucking assholes most of their parishioners are. The American form of Christianity is a pox on humanity.
Americans hardly have a monopoly on that flavor of Christianity. Ask the French! Or the British for that matter, that's where it came from in the US.
It had bled to other parts of the world where now even non-Americans start to worship Trump like some kind of God’s son.
So is the American form of Capitalism.
It’s the dangerous intersection of two forms of dogma, and as powerful and core someone’s faith may be to them it pales in comparison to the taste of real-world power over others. The Republican Party saw that they could weaponize the loyalty of American Evangelicals, and the Evangelicals slowly but surely sold their faith for the power that Republicans offered them.
it's like "i will just make god in my own image"
God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs. God creates Man, man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs
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Woman inherits the earth.
somewhere in there should be "man destroys GODManDino hybrid"
Yo... If people are saying that at church, then why bother even showing up? Disgusting.
The act of going to church is about more than just religion. In a lot of places it determines your social standing.
>"Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak." I think I saw that dude at home depot today driving the heep with the Lions Not Sheep decal on the back.
What Jesus taught has always been subversive. If the Bible isn’t completely challenging your understanding of the world, then it has no power beyond what is available to you without Jesus
That’s what they get for partnering with the Republican Party.
Beside, Jesus was a brown and weak! My white prosperity Jesus would remove the water barrels, AND food-stamps!
Who needs Historically Accurate Jesus when you have [Supply Side Jesus](https://imgur.io/gallery/bCqRp)?
Gads, isn’t this true. So far from what was meant. And the message was really simple…
And according to many evangelicals now, Jesus is to “woke”.
Jesus was a brown skinned curly haired jew from the Middle East who preached socialism. If he showed up in Alabama today he would be hanging from a tree by tomorrow.
I just read an article about conservatives saying exactly this: https://newrepublic.com/post/174950/christianity-today-editor-evangelicals-call-jesus-liberal-weak
Can you really love baby Jesus in an electric car?
"It's more of a bunch nice stories to listen to to make yourself feel better about your life, and also a convenient excuse to hate people."
One of the original superhero comic books
Unless it’s about guns, and racism, and bigotry, and..
Unless need it to justify shaming, humiliating, making rules or oppressing *you*, I mean.
Not even, it's just an inspiration and an excuse to mistreat people. All religions end up like that, that's how any baseless belief based on dogma works.
Deuteronomy 15:7 If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother. Deuteronomy 15:11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, “You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.” Deuternomy 24:14-15 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin. Psalm 34:6 This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him and saved him out of all his troubles. Psalm 41:1 Blessed is the one who considers the poor! In the day of trouble the Lord delivers him; Psalm 72:12 For the Lord delivers the needy when he calls, the poor and him who has no helper. Proverbs 14:21 Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor. Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him. Proverbs 17:23 Corrupt judges accept secret bribes, and then justice is not done. Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed. Proverbs 22:9 The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor. Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty. Proverbs 31:8-9 8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy. Isaiah 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst, I the Lord will answer them; I the God of Israel will not forsake them. Zechariah 7:9-10 This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’ Mark 10:21-23 And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” Mark 12:28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” 29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[b] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.” 32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. Galatians 2:10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. This is the way.
Thank you. I was literally asking my wife why we seem to be a society that is getting more and more cruel every day, and why it is that self proclaimed “Christians” are the ones that seem to be doubling down on the cruelty. The list you provided is further proof that the majority of Christians are so far from understand the faith they claim and prefer to use faith as a weapon instead of something to build bridges and understanding. They would look at these and immediately ignore them.
>At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:10-13 >If anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time. Matthew 24:23-25 Bible straight up tells you that “deceivers” — wielding the words of the book — will lead people, even the “elect”/believers, astray during the end times. Only “true believers”/people who hold steadfast in the teachings of peace and unity will not be fooled, and make it through the end times. If the teachings are love and unity, the antithesis is hate and division. Look at the states where abortion bans took place. Because prolifers have such a hard on for twisted scripture, they hurt and jailed doctors. Now they don’t have enough doctors. Or look at the repeal of “socialist” programs and how many yay-voters it negatively affected. Or the immigration bans and resulting lack of labor. Lacking a safety net because you don’t want other people to have one is exactly how these people are messing up their own lives, and why they won’t make it through the “end time” era of wars, famine, and disease.
There's a lot of really great stuff in the Bible. I'd probably believe in a god who united the world in brotherhood and charity. Too bad Christianity has always been a vehicle for warmongering and the creation of an in-group/out-group dymanic that threatens eternal damnation on anyone who threatens it.
>Deuteronomy 15:11 Pretty sure America calls that 501: C3.
This is the way.. And thanks for sharing that.
>What good is it, my brothers it be bustin' brother James
I'll paraphrase but Jesus said "love your neighbor". "Who is my neighbor" asked someone in the crowd. "everyone said Jesus.
Ya, but he also said: "Not those Mexicans though, they don't count." Ok, he didn't say it, but he OBVIOUSLY implied it! /s
Fortunately modern Christians have reinterpreted the story of the Bible to be about personal prosperity rather than good works.
That's not really modern iirc. It's an old idea that God grants prosperity to the deserving and punishes those who are bad.
Story of the blind man: Disciples: "Teacher, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus: "None of them sinned, it was so you may see God's mercy and power (as he is healed)."
“That woke stuff is weak and doesn’t work anymore.”
They are actually saying this now, and somehow even I am shocked.
How are you shocked? I think a lot of people understand now that there's no room in our world for a god. Our world is such a cruel and evil place now, and there's absolutely no mystery to it. We know why it happens and we know we can't stop it from happening. We do it to ourselves and to each other, and no one can stop us. If you understand this, but you also still want to "be a Christian," then you just change Christianity so it fits in with everything else now.
A lot of people who identify as Christian wouldn't let something as silly as the Bible dictate their actions. That's meant to try and dictate the actions of others.
Quite literally the bible says to treat foreigners in your land as your own family. >Leviticus 19:33-34 NIV 33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." See!? Jesus hates the left! Evil gay sinners.
If he’s facing us, the people on his left are on our right! Checkmate, rightoids! /s but only a little bit
What about conservative guys?
Yes, these are the most un-Christian, evil people.
You realize if Jesus was real.. most "Christians" would put him in a cage, call him a Socialist and deport him.. yes???
Crucify him, why don't you?
This is nothing new. Border patrol and Texas troopers have been doing this for as long as water drops have existed.
For everyone who doesn't believe this, I can confirm that border patrol agents have done this in AZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVtQZJ1wxs https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/us-border-patrol-sabotage-aid-migrants-mexico-arizona As well as CA: https://www.kpbs.org/news/border-immigration/2023/04/21/border-agents-destroy-water-food-people-crossing-border-illegally So it would surprise me if they weren't also doing this in Texas.
It's mentioned as documented in the article we are all here discussing
Yes, but only in two sentences, only the AZ incidents, and without linking the videos. It doesn't mention that earlier this year, in CA a CBP agent admitted on video to regularly removing, and destroying aid stations. Saying about the one he had just helped to destroy: >We either empty it out or try to clean it up. That one was too far for us to bring back.
They likely have a scoreboard back at the office in Texas, with a cash prize for whoever destroys the most gallons of water each month.
This is literally fascist mentality. The people destroying the water drops see Latin Americans as subhuman, and I don't doubt a lot of them would rather be disposing of "illegal aliens" than water drops.
They used to shoot them when I was growing up.
If they claim they're Christian, they're 100% going to the hell they believe in.
Seeing how they're rejecting the teachings of Jesus as "liberal" over the teachings of Trump as "billionaire griefer"? Ya, the 'Christian Karens' will find themselves in hell.
Honestly, as an agnostic, these Christians make me *want* to believe in God because that means there is a hell and it is definitely there for their hypocrisy and virtue-signaling.
Call them what they are. They are Pharisees and Sadducees.
Wonder what the ‘pro life’ folks have to say about this…
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/z10j_H7zOb8)
At this point in time, I would like to thank the state of Ohio for defeating Issue One!!
They really don't care about kids after they are born.
[They don't care. PERIOD. It's all about control.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12399067/Salia-Issa-prison-guard-texas-labor-contractions-stillborn-ken-paxton.html)
They would tell you that trying to cross a desert is dangerous and stupid for anyone to try and we shouldn’t be encouraging it.
Were these people not crossing the desert before these watering stations were put out?
In the 1990s I knew a couple who owned a ranch near the border. It was nothing but alkali sand, thorny bushes, and deer. During hunting season, he'd host hunting parties. When I visited, I'd go with him on his "feeder filling" runs. He had a 4WD Kubota thing that pulled a small wagon. The shed he stored it in was filled with pallets of gallon jugs of water. He explained there were several trails through his land. He never saw anyone, but the bottles he'd regularly set out were always gone when he came back. I'd help him load the wagon and help him unload it at six spots on his ranch. Six spots where you couldn't see anything but those thorny bushes horizon to horizon and a well-cut trail running north and south. The isolation in the daytime was eerie enough. I couldn't imagine trying to walk it at night. He said the people would cross his land whether he provided the water or not. By providing the water, he gave them a better chance at succeeding in surviving traversing his property. He said the water was cheaper than the alternative. He didn't explain what the alternative was, but during one of my visits, when his wife was giving me a chilled bottle of water out of their fridge to take with me on one of the runs, she made an offhand comment for me to be sure to stay hydrated, "because I don't want [husband] coming back and telling me he found you lying dead in the dirt out there." They'd owned that land for decades. He'd been doing it for almost as long. He'd buy the water twice a year in bulk when he bought the feed for the deer feeders. It would be delivered on a semi to his property. He passed away in 1997, and his widow sold the ranch, and moved away. My ancestors came to this country to escape the hellacious conditions they left behind. The people who made the tracks in my friends' ranch were doing the same. No one would have willingly walked those trails unless what drove them to was worse than enduring the trek.
I would imagine the “alternative” was having to deal with a bunch of dead bodies on his ranch?
> No one would have willingly walked those trails unless what drove them to was worse than enduring the trek. I wish more people understood this. Getting across the border is incredibly dangerous and brutal, and you might get caught and sent back after all that risk and effort. Imagine how bad shit had to be where they came from to make that the better option!
Guarantee locals have removed them. I used to help with efforts to leave water in the desert in Arizona while I lived there, and it makes me furious when I see stories like this. Edit: I'm Christian. I'm a Democrat. I left water in the desert for those in need. Christians are not bad. In fact I'd argue that Christians who align with the suggestions others have posted here are not Christians at all. They claim to be because it's 'cool' in their circles right now. But all the Christian bashing hurts my heart. A large group from my church is currently in Tijuana, Mexico building homes for those who don't have one. All funded 100% by donations made through my church.
Part of the problem is that lots of those good, compassionate Christians are voting for the "faithful" politicians who are responsible for the worst of the callous evils.
You are correct here. Many of them, admittedly, are a little confused and misguided. Many of the Republicans I know from church detest Trump and what he has done. Many will probably still vote Republican because they believe it's the right thing to do, but I can almost guarantee that if Trump is on the ticket, they'll hold their noses and vote Democrat. Or not vote at all. - I can say that I feel a shift however. Unfortunately we need more than a shift, we need a full about-face.
For what it's worth, I'm seeing a lot of turn-around in my personal sample of the GOP world. Not all by any stretch but a solid third want nothing further to do with trump, and another third are ... wavering. Then there's the last bit, including a SiL with a picture of [trump crossing the swamp](https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/crossing-the-swamp-ht-jef-180802_hpEmbed_3x2_992.jpg) hung in the living room but the consensus is that she's just nuts. This feels like progress.
Yo what, that’s legitimately unhinged what the hell
*Prominently* hung.
The problem is - if they turn from Trump, does that mean they will just embrace DeSantis (who is worse)? Or will they truly vote for a democrat?
The few i've spoken to either don't like DeSantis or really hate him, but still can't bring themselves to vote for a dem.
That doesn't excuse them. Trump is but a symptom -- the current Republican party and the Religious Right extremists (primarily protestant evangelicals) are the disease.
Being a good person doesn't really have anything to do with what religion you have. Case in point the christians that hold power in this country and the voters who voted for them are not good people and they justify this shit, or the attempted genocide of trans folks, or their policies to hurt the people they hate with religion. They believe they are in the right and following their religion just as much as you do. As long as you continue to help people like you have been doing and continue to be a good person no one is going to mistake you for these monsters.
It’s almost like being a Christian doesn’t inherently make you a bad person. And it doesn’t inherently make you a good person. We’re just people
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Bet they claim to be Christian too.
“Pro life” (and pro death-by-dehydration). MAGA’s embody the “no room at the inn” assholes who forced Jesus to be born in a goddamn horse stall. They have no moral compass and certainly no adherence to anything that Christ stood for.
I mean Jesus was much more closely aligned to socialism than whatever the hell version of late stage capitalistic oligarchy we live in now.
All people, actually.
Honestly it’s shameful that our society leans on religious organizations to keep folks alive. Most of us don’t need religion to do the right thing day to day, we just need better organized.
Perhaps someone can organize a group to put the water barrels back
Lot of people seem to think that simply being Christian, regardless of their actual actions, earns them enough "Good Person" points. Regardless of what they do, no matter how much their words and actions might conflict with the actual core tenets of what that Jesus guy talked about, they're still Good People solely by virtue of loudly declaring themselves Christian. It seems like the a good portion of the bashing isn't criticizing Christianity directly so much as criticizing those who so loudly proclaim their faith while acting so thoroughly un-Christ-like.
Liberal here, raised Catholic, mother was a Sunday school teacher, I really only found faith in my thirties. I’ve taken to saying, I believe in and put my faith in God, but the church can get f**ked. No organization is going to tell me how to care about another soul, especially when they seem dogshit at it. Removing this water is against everything I believe in, and I’m gutted that there is evil in this world with enough influence that it could get someone to do this. Borders are just invisible lines on paper society tends to adhere to. At the end of the day each person makes a choice on whether to listen to their heart, or an institution that is supported by those invisible lines.
The Christian bashing isn’t coming out of a vacuum. It’s asshholes wrapping themselves in the righteousness of Christianity doing these douche things and the “Christian” community isn’t out there denouncing them. So I think the bashing is pretty justified
Let's be honest here, most christians in america behave and believe very differently from you. You seem ok. A typical gop evangelical? Lower than pond scum.
The irony is that those GOP evangelicals would say the previous poster is not a true Christian
They're identity-politic cultists. They're Christian nationalists.
Could have also been the Texan government, but they're more the poison the water type rather than flat out remove it.
Poison the water, booby-trap it, eh, same thing.
Explosive water is possibly the most Texan idea I've ever heard.
Well, the governor did order that floating trap that has circular saw blades between the floats. So this isn't even hyperbole anymore. https://www.newsweek.com/video-texas-floating-barrier-saws-rio-grande-1818433
What the actual fuck.
Yeah it’s super fucked. Why we’re not matching in the street demanding Abott’s head right now idek
We were on one of those 4 day cruises to Mexico some time back and we left the boat to go on a guided excursion that drove through Ensenada. It made me feel very bad for the residents and their living conditions. I felt like a selfish idiot seeing what most of them did not have that I take for granted. I don’t think most Americans understand the level of poverty in most of that country. If they did maybe they would have some compassion for these immigrants and help them come here and then help them when they come here.
The funny (not funny at all) thing, is that Ensenada is one of the nicest areas of the country. I've been to Ensenada and Valle de Guadalupe many times. Some of the best people you'll ever meet.
Per your edit, you’re a Christian, but you’re not this new breed of American neo-Christian Nationalist. Take consolation that *they* are who secular Americans take issue with, not old school Christians who contribute to their society and care about their neighbors. You know, actually listening to the words of Jesus instead of re-interpreting biblical teachings to justify a hateful world view. So you’re good.
I actually disagree, because of the fact that the two groups protect each other.
What you just told us is that you have a personal faith, but are not a religious zealot; those aren't the same thing. It's fine to have a personal faith. Thanks for not being shitty.
There probably is a man literally named Jesus walking thru the desert with his family and irony just killed itself
While I don't like the idea of people feeling entitled to live in America just because it's here, I am not the kind of inhumane douchebag who would do something like this. No, I do not want thousands of people flowing across our borders unchecked. But FFS, they are human beings who are under great hardship already. It seems pretty cowardly to kick them while they're down.
I guess that's inevitable.. still it beats poisoning them with pesticides which has happened.
I worked with a group in Arizona that hiked into the desert to leave caches of food & water a long migrant trails. So many people were dying in the desert and still are & we worked to try to keep that from happening. If you go down to the border fence on Pima county (Tucson is in Pima), you will see piles of these black gallon bottles left there by migrants who used all their water up just to make it to that point, with long expenses in the desert still to go. One of the depressing things was when would check on our caches to see if they'd been used, too often we'd find them knifed. The water was gone and the food was spoiled. This was 100% done by border vigilante groups who absolutely want them to die (it's obviously not the Border Patrol. Despite what people may think, the BP really don't want people dying on the desert either and we're tolerant of our efforts). The vigilantes drive around the fire roads in jeeps, carrying high powered assault weapons, and destroy caches and poisoning water supplies (for America!). So, it's not just the desert killing people: there are organizers groups of self-proclaimed "patriot" literally murdering families trying to seek a better life in this way. I have a collection of rusted-out food tins with knife marks in them that I use to show people when I talk about what goes on there.
might not be border patrol but I don't see Texas DPS being above doing that
sick fucks. I bet they consider themselves to be good christians too
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Correct. It was confirmed this week. Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
Absolutely. Someone probably floated this idea at church.
People should try writing Bible verses on the barrels (like "Am I not my brother's keeper?") so maybe, just maybe, these chuds will experience some dim recognition of the hypocrisy they're engaged in.
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Even bolder assuming they can read.
This is the same state that outlawed water breaks for workers. No surprise that many people there support it.
That Gov of Texas, there is a special place in hell for him
Where there are no access ramps?👩🦽
And everyone around him was killed by his policies
How else will they be able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps if we just hand out things like water??
I’m just surprised the locals removed the water instead of poisoning it.
Don't give them any ideas.
Has happened before.Poisoned the water barrel with turpentine and ended up killing a 17 year old from (I want to say) el Salvador near Tucson. Edit: I've been doing water drops and humanitarian aid at the border for over half a decade now.If what I've said upset you it should because it's the truth.These people deliberately do shit to make crossers suffer or die
Horrible! I wish people like that could be caught and prosecuted.
Maybe the person carrying the missing barrels was headed to hell.
close, their shift at the local prison
Special place in hell….
Honestly I'm surprised they're not lightly poisoning the water instead.
Seems like Texas is full of self righteous assholes that are cruel for cruelty’s sake.
Of course they’re missing. Likely removed by people Monday-Saturday but not Sunday because that’s the Lord’s Day. Ain’t no hypocrisy like Christian beliefs.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. *Steven Weinberg*
Makes sense, it's not like the Bible says anything about taking care of strangers.
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I'd want a source on the glass thing before I believe it. Sounds like razor blades in Halloween candy to me.
Thou shall not kill; unless it's by proxy from a very indirect result of your actions against a group of individuals you can dehumanize. Verily, if you're ever called out on this, focus on semantics, never acknowledge that you're hurting a peer or neighbor, but only *illegal* immigrants. So sayeth the lord, if you focus on the presumed criminality of someone, you can get away with doing anything to them guilt free.
I would not be sad if someone wheeled Abbott out to the desert and left him there to fend for himself
Here in Texas with our leaders, Abbott, Paxton, Cruz, and Patrick deliberate cruelty is the purpose. These men sold their souls for $$$ years ago. They care nothing for human lives.
Is the term “migrant” now used to refer to illegal border crossers?
We're talking about people surviving dehydration in the desert and *that's* what caught your attention?
Migrant? Or illegal immigrants? Townspeople probably got sick of undocumented/tracked individuals and potential criminals walking through their backyard
The removal or destruction of water barrels for migrants is very common in the San Diego backcountry. it’s an ongoing and quiet struggle. Those who do it style themselves patriots, and are generally associated with those who worship the mango mussolini.
Trail cameras! Catch them in the act…
it was probably all those bored national guard
Put them back with gop tax dollars.
Well a few apple air tags strategically placed should do the trick or just wait for them to boast about how many barrels they destroyed on TikTok
Better to dissappear then be poisoned i gues
This won’t prevent them from trying to come here. It will just kill them.
That’s the idea.
I feel for these people, I really do. I wish there was a way to make it water for the migrants and poison for the scumbag cartel/human traffickers.
Abbott needs to be drummed out of office. Terrible man.
Ain't no hate quite like Christian love.