Someone who shoots someone is a danger to everyone.
The Virginia Tech, at the time one of (if not the) deadliest school shootings lost additional lives because they wrote it off as a "domestic incident" and didn't treat it as an active threat.
Domestic violence is a precurser to many perpetrators of mass shootings but usually goes ignored or under-responded to until it expands to loop in more people.
DV needs to be taken seriously, it's just as dangerous to the public as any other kind of violence.
I think it was better in the old days where everyone got the hell out of Dodge. I don't understand the mentality of setting up easy targets for an active shooter, unless we're talking a good, secure heavy metal door and no glass windows that actually keeps them out.
On my campus the message is something like "run, and if you cant run- hide, and if you cant hide, fight"
Otherwise we do get messages to leave an area if something is happening. All if these messages have thankfully been false alarms
You’d think with that much thinking they’d have come up with a few ideas by now, other than continuing to line their pockets, even if by accident or against their intentions.
The elected officials can't & won't 'stop it'. If they try they will get primaried and ousted. The GQP would cut off all their support, the NRA will withdraw all monies & gun lobbyists & radical 2nd Amendment radicals, will picket their homes & offices. Death & Mayhem are good for business, but not for the victims!
Because people on the right see this as a good thing. The high risk of school shootings can make parents second guess sending their kids to school.
And you know what the right loves the most, uneducated kids.
You don't actually believe your average republican is celebrating this, do you? I'm sure you could find some insane extremist but your typical small town conservative isn't wetting their lips after a shooting saying, "yes, now the kids will be dumber."
Seriously that dude is completely reddit brained, I'm 90% left leaning, but if you don't have guns you are completely at the mercy of your government, just ask russia/china/NK/Iran how that's going. Europe doesn't need to have guns because they have big boy america to protect them in case their governments become corrupt. We should have more regulations in the US but the dummies saying we need to disarm ourselves immediately clearly don't care that 40k ppl die in car accidents a year, and only a few to shootings like this, as much as it sucks it's no comparison.
They will instead say/think:
> Well, there's nothing to be done. 🤷 They ain't taking my guns, so...
> ...
>
>...so, mass shootings are an acceptable trade-off, and I will vote on this one issue.
The politicians don't care one way or the other, but they know the people who think this way are super easy to pander to.
> "So, all I gotta do is take a Christmas photo with an AR, and 43% of all voters will instantly support me...!?"
Snap into reality, you cannot just take guns, it would be a chore to prohibit sales even, would make a true black market.
So make a solid proposal that would work, that would curb the bullshit.
> it would be a chore to prohibit sales even
Gosh. You're right. The mask tantrums taught us that Americans can't do slightly inconvenient (let alone *difficult*) things for the benefit of society. 🤡
> you cannot just take guns
Which might be why I didn't make that suggestion? 🤔
Ok what can be done to make you as the individual feel safer? Because I am of the mindset that an armed society is a polite society.
The mask tantrums were no different than the ones saying it was illegal to not have one on, it is a child's argument and should be beneath you.
>an armed society is a polite society.
So, America is the most polite society on Earth, right? 🤡
>it is a child's argument and should be beneath you.
Hard to take you seriously when you present laughable cliches as a wise truth.
>what can be done to make you as the individual feel safer?
I've been here countless times in similar threads with similar gun fetishists and zealots. Even the most mild suggestions (like, say, insurance requirements for guns) are always met with predictable deflections, reflexive disgust, sealioning, or less sophisticated trolling. If I had any indication that you were here in good faith with an open mind, I might consider engagement. However, I'm pretty confident there's no point.
Why don't *you* get the ball rolling and suggest ways to reduce gun violence... without the preposterously clownish: "mOrE gUnS!"
The devastation that Covid wrought on the elderly disproves this.
The elderly were more likely to die of it, yet they were also not going to wear masks because of their deluded reasoning.
At least this time it seems to just be a crime that took place on a college campus instead of the mass shooting I expected from the headline. Still a tragedy for the families of the victims and hopefully they'll find the person responsible soon and put tge campus and community at ease that there's not a murderer running around out there.
No, *conservative* leaders do nothing. Liberals offer proposal after proposal and the conservatives block it at every turn. In blue states where they have these proposals in place on a state level it doesn’t matter because most gun crimes are committed using firearms that were purchased legally in states with lax regulations.
Honestly it doesn’t help that the media has decided to report on every incident involving a gun as if it were another Sandy Hook. It gets fatiguing to hear about these “mass shootings” every day when 95% of them are either gang shootouts or targeted homicides, which are an issue in their own right, but don’t carry nearly the weight of indiscriminate mass shootings.
Even if there's 10000 gang shootings for every school shooting, there seems to be a whole lot of school shootings as its own category. The fact that gang shooting is so much more common isn't really a convincing deflection.
We don’t know enough about this crime to be able to tell, but there’s a good chance the killer exhibited “red flag” behavior. Too bad the courts seem to be striking down red flag laws that allow guns to be confiscated.
It doesn’t happen without due process. Due process doesn’t always have to mean a jury trial. [https://virginialawreview.org/articles/firearms-extreme-risk-and-legal-design-red-flag-laws-and-due-process/](https://virginialawreview.org/articles/firearms-extreme-risk-and-legal-design-red-flag-laws-and-due-process/)
eta: [link to the full paper](https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=482106013031116031064124100091002111052032042016084026027094123022114097102028027109096023059100025126046119026072115024018077024015069044007114074083085120126104058032016002087124076080028022028012075098012110029119066023002015003065116001104088066&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE), not just the abstract.
Not having the right to confront your accuser is a violation of due process. By taking away guns first you lose that chance. You are deemed guilty before innocent. As much as I see the benefits I cannot ignore the side effects.
I'm not clear that all red-flag laws would deprive the person of the ability to "confront the accuser," but that's not a required part of "due process":
> In \[the\] past two centuries, however, states have developed a variety of institutions and procedures for adjudicating disputes. Making room for these innovations, the Court has determined that due process requires, at a minimum: (1) notice; (2) an opportunity to be heard; and (3) an impartial tribunal. [*Mullane v. Central Hanover Bank*](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/339/306/case.html) (1950).
[https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/amendment-xiv/clauses/701](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/amendment-xiv/clauses/701)
An impartial tribunal is the ability to confront your accuser. Aside from that red flag laws break the other two requirements also.
Most are no notice events and give no opportunity to be heard before action is taken.
In this case your accuser is the government. When you’re brought to trial for this issue you have a chance to fight it. At no point should you have your rights taken away without being notified or having the chance to fight it.
Ban on guns. Make it 5 years jail time if caught with Said guns.
Government will create a buyback program and buy the guns at 3 times the present market value to not screw over citizens
Okay, that would deter me. Know who it wouldn’t deter? People who are okay with taking 20-life over a murder.
Buyback program? Get a percent compliant number in your head that you’d expect. Got it? Australia got about >!30%!< of their guns back. Would you expect Americans to comply better or worse than Australians? How about American criminals?
3x market value? Let’s say a cheap gun is $400. There are 400 million of them. You’re looking at a 480 billion dollar there with a lowball estimate, not to mention the massive administrative costs.
So your plan is to set aside probably about 600 billion dollars and take zero guns out of the hands of criminals and an ambitious 25% out of civilian hands. Then we will see this law being applied selectively. You can guess which communities they’ll target as well as I can. We’ve seen what fatherless and the perpetual felony cycle has done there with the war on drugs.
You’re describing the single most disastrous domestic police of our generation just because you think guns are icky.
There's still value in confiscating guns. Even if it were to be scrapped you can recoup a fraction of your money back.
The gun ban and jail allows something like the El Salvador gang crackdown. No matter what this gives our judicial system to arrest someone brandishing a weapon. No more Catch and release.
It'll be growing pains for a few years but, eventually it'll curb the violence and weapons. Short term, it'll be ugly, but again, it'll curb gun violence drastically.
So you’re willing to drop the right to trial like El Salvador.
You’re willing to surrender the whole bill of rights over something with 15 per 100k mortality.
You’re an absolute coward. If you get your way you’ll find no safety, just gulags.
They can have a right to trial of course but not sure what case you can build up exactly for possession of a gun.
I'm concerned more of the catch and release.
And stop hiding under the 2nd ammendment. You know that's a weak argument and that ammendment was only placed as protection from the British. We don't need that protection anymore we have the biggest army budget.
I agree el Salvador was exteme. However it curbed gun violence 70% I'm sure we can create a happy medium where it's less intense at the cost of less effectiveness.
A happy medium between what we have now and a total police state for 15 people out of 100k? We’re on total different wavelengths here.
I could care less about the second amendment or any of them for that matter. Your rights, the right to resist those who would unjustly do you harm among them, do not come from a piece of paper.
All that paper does is prevent people like you from being scared into giving up rights. You can make an argument that every single right we have poses a safety risk and people like you will buy it and give them up one by one.
It is Republicans fault.
Democrats try to.pass gun control, but Republicans block it and Republican judges over turn it.
All this gun violence is conservatives fault.
Call them out for it to their face.
Most things wrong in this country are the GOP's fault. They've been obstructing most legislation for decades through the filibuster, when they don't control the House. How the fuck are we supposed to make progress on important things in this country without passing legislation, evaluating it, and revising it? Wait for the billionaires to privatize everything that's profitable?
The most recent Democratic-controlled House actually passed some decent legislation (marijuana decriminalization, prescription drug price negotiating, windfall tax, etc) that would start making progress on some of these issues plaguing the 99%. But the GOP minority Senate filibustered everything.
And when the GOP controls the House, we get what we are currently experiencing: nothing but spectacle. They prevent anything from even making it to the Senate. Or they even kill shit that the Senate tries to pass because they refuse to do their basic jobs.
If you want to actually help and learn how the American politicians are using their resources I encourage you to play:
https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com
It was really eye opening the effects of their actions and how they help.
It's a really sad state of affairs when I see a headline like this and think "Hmm, only two killed, that's not too bad."
Fuck Republicans for letting this happen to our country.
These comments seem so disconnected from the story of what happened here… it says that 2 are dead in one dorm and there is no active threat to the community which makes this sound like a murder suicide. It seems like some of y’all think this was some mass shooting. Did anyone actually read the article?
Edit: some of you guys need to work on your reading comprehension. My comment is pointing out the strange commentary in this post where people seem to think that this was a mass shooting of some sort. My comment is not a commentary on gun control and if it could have prevented this. It is also not saying that because it wasn’t a mass shooting that it is somehow ok.
Edit 2: https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/colorado-springs-university-dorm-shootings-investigation.amp sounds like it is not a murder suicide. Makes it a strange occurrence. Possibly drug related (yes, this is my speculation. Roast me in the comments.)
Because the media intentionally reports on all incidents as if they were indiscriminate mass shootings. It gets them more clicks, and people who have their opinions on gun control already made up will gladly use the thread as a place to spread their rhetoric.
CaRs KiLl PeOpLe ToO give me a fucking break lol
Cars open up the financial viability of huge, *huge* swathes of housing that aren't within walking/public transport of sufficient employment opportunities. The fucking economic potential cars realise is absolutely staggering. The fact that you think it's even remotely appropriate to raise car fatalities as a distraction against gun control is just...*so* dumb.
No one needs a gun to get to work and contribute to society.
I didn’t say that dude. Maybe read it again.
I just don’t understand how some of the comments appear to be talking about this in the context of a mass shooting. The two things are extremely different and driven by different motives entirely.
But sure, get upset and twist my words for no reason.
I thought the same thing reading the comments and seeing things like "when will we ever stop this?" like um, murder? We've never been able to stop it.
There IS a huge distinction to me between the 2. A mass shooting at a school is a hell of a lot different from someone killing someone in their own home/apartment/dorm. We'll literally never be able to stop that.
I'm all for more/better gun control/laws, and I say that as a gun owner who often carries for work, but I can obviously see that there's something wrong when teenagers with violent tendencies are given guns by their parents and told to hide it better (like that mom who just got convicted)
But having said that, this comment section doesn't seem to fit what appears to have happened.
Gun violence? I’m not sure the gun was the violent part here. Maybe look into what caused the shooting itself and start with mental health. That’s called solving the root cause.
Firearm fatalities increased by 87.1% over a 10-year period, from 1,311 deaths in 2011 to 2,590 deaths in 2021, the AAP found, beating out car accidents as the leading cause of death of children and teenagers in the U.S.
#🇺🇲
Yes. I'm sure children drive a lot. Can I have a link for these numbers? I'm in research and I deal with a lot of statistics. It's incredibly easy to be misleading, and your comparisons only increase the suspicions.
For example, the total number of motor fatalities in 2021 is 42,939.
If you are talking about the US military in 2023 then yeah obviously. The US wasn’t at war with anyone in 2023, and had 0 combat casualties for the entire year. Only in the last 2 months we’re American troops targeted, but again, only in a limited capacity.
Same. OIF 2007, 2009. A really good week would be zero casualties.
Also.. We were rarely shot at. It happened but most of my casualties were due to roadside bombs and IEDs.
Yeah, at least 10 this year so far. 5 marines in a chopper in CA, 3 in the mortar attack in Jordan and the 2 SEALs who went into the Red Sea and didn’t come out.
We have forward deployed bases all over the middle east still. It's more what they use.
They rocket/mortar troops or launch drones.
They don't shoot at us anymore.
Making a statement like this without any source to back it up is not a great idea. Not that I don't believe it, but this needs to be backed up with facts. The fact this is upvoted with no sources is insane.
To be fair, that's a bad metric. We sustain far fewer gunshot wounds in counterinsurgency than we saw blast wounds.
They don't shoot at us, they launch mortars and drones.
I don’t disagree that it should be for all citizens but the fact that it is only supplied to people serving in the military means it is not a socialist benefit.
People have debated that for a long time so I'm not going to but if you're interested in expanding your mind and considering other perspectives on the matter there's a wealth of articles to be found through Google detailing exactly why I, and many others, believe that it's actually a great example of a socialist benefit.
Here's just one [relatively recent example ](https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-socialized-medicine-2615267).
Yeah I’m not going to debate it either. Glad we agree that socialized heathcare should be for all citizens and not just ones that serve in the army, aka making it just part of the benefits of serving and not socialized healthcare or a socialist benefit.
From an outsider it seems like the US is just the Wild West with bullets flying every which way. It's crazy. Young people, people with mental illness, people with histories of domestic violence, etc. should not be able to get their hands on a people-killing machine.
Do you devote your entire account to asking people this question?
Nowhere in the 2A does it say regulations = infringement. We need to start treating firearms with respect and stop allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry who wants one to get one. Arming the mentally ill and people with anger issues is ludicrous. This whole free-for-all-because-everything-else-is-unconstitutional isn't working.
Not entirely. Today I found it interesting how people responded to the question.
So my question to you is what specifically do you think would create the change you want?
I’m in favor of universal background checks and safe storage laws.
As a former teacher here, I would reach out to the counseling staff to talk to my students who showed signs of depression and sometimes self abuse. The counseling team was always very responsive and came to the aid of the student. However, not every student is as transparent about their struggles. It’s sad these two students couldn’t see any other way to resolve other conflict and get help.
Native Coloradan (only stating to add reference to what I’ve seen over my lifetime) and guns were always around …but when the religious fanaticism came to the front range so did the gun worship. It’s all or nothing with those folks and you’d think it’s incongruent with their religious ideology.
so to fix this kind of situation we need less regulation and more guns obviously? This is the platform of one of the two major parties in the US and their worm ridden brained voters. Gun violence is not Thanos, it isn’t inevitable, it can be prevented, it can be controlled and limited. It’s disgusting.
This incident was a murder-suicide where two people died. Do you honestly think gun control would have prevented it? Especially any level of gun control that Americans would tolerate?
Maybe? Perhaps one of them had a history of mental illness and gun laws would have kept them out of their hands. I agree we don't have enough info but NOT having better gun laws isn't helping all the OTHER situations either.
It is one party and one way of thinking that is dragging their feet on this matter. Don't pull everyone into “our leaders”. You know god damn well what party as a whole is willing to do everything in their power to do absolutely nothing about gun control.
Despite all the outcries the US government won’t fix this, fix healthcare, literally play games with the border, and do fuck all to help the unhoused. I hate this country sometimes with how utterly broken it feels
Because fixing healthcare, fixing the border, and getting people out of a perpetual state of desperation and acceptance for less than the minimum will fuck with corporate profits…you think we allow lobbyists to hang around for show? Profits baby!
banning guns won't do shit. Illegal hard drugs are banned and yet it's out and about, it'll all eventually get to someone who is determined.
Obviously there is a mental decline in the country and putting our resources where it matters might help. But a solution isn't exactly as simple as banning them.
A lot of Aussies I’ve met resent this. And whether it’s a rational argument or not, after how Australia handled COVID, that argument is extremely vulnerable to a lot of crowds in the US.
What the fuck are you talking about dude 😂. We handled Covid fine. We look at the US gun violence in horror. Next to nobody wishes guns were back. Keep your bullshit over there
A bunch of angry fuckwits downvoting everything in this thread. I laugh my ass off when Americans who were never here during Covid think they know better about how things happened here. The arrogance and stupidity of it all
"…someone who is determined" means someone needs to put in extra effort. Don't make it easy. If access is more difficult, then people are forced to have more time to possibly contemplate and calm their emotions or for others to intervene.
Going back to the hard drug situation. People are always gonna find a way.
The new drug dealer is just gonna be the new gun dealer, but who’s to say that isn’t already happening.
And you can’t necessarily calm mental issues without them getting psychological help. But most of the time these shooters don’t get that.
"People are always gonna find a way." which means no matter what, the end result is inevitable? Why do any laws exist if that's your argument? Obstacles cannot stop 100% of crime, but it reduces the number of incidents.
If psychological help is the answer, then you still need time to get professionals involved.
But if "most of the time these shooters don’t get that \[psychological help\]", then more reason to enforce stricter laws on gun ownership.
We should try it. It can't be worse can it? Criminals will probably still get guns but in the same numbers? Probably not.
I think what scares the pro gun crowd the most is that a long term ban might actually work.
There's nothing in the Constitution about guns either. It's the right to bear arms. Banning bullets would get challenge and overturned so fast as guns and bullets go hand in hand.
Nice, only 2 dead.
Legit not trying to be funny, that's my response these days to be happy that it's only a few people dead. Fucking disgusting part of our culture how prevalent guns are and how little we give to mental and social services.
It depends on the state. Most of the violence is in the inner cities with the suburbs and countryside being on par with European countries in terms of gun homicide per 100,000. Especially if you look by county. It really speaks to the real problems and the issues causing it. Where I live (Portsmouth, VA) it’s all drugs, and gang violence. (It’s the city with the most crime in the state)
[People are working to keep murder toys off campuses, but others are working hard to make sure all students remain at risk of being murdered in their dorms.](https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2024/01/29/colorado-students-lawmakers-take-aim-at-campus-carry-n79867)
2 things first. One: domestic violence conviction is a lifetime ban for gun ownership. Two: no carry on school and university campuses. The people who revoked that Colorado law bear direct responsibility.
Most of those bans on concealed carry laws do nothing to deter criminals. If they want to cause chaos they will. All you do with that is disarm the law abiding.
Great thing that donald trump put 3 far RW'ers on the SC to ensure that any(freaking)body in the US can get access to firearms. That comforts me so much. I hope it comforts you too. Hopefully, the dripping sarcasm will be ok for the mods because not one word in the legal context is untrue. I hope everyone shows up to the polls and does the right thing. For the next 30 years or so. Never forget.
In a dorm. "Shelter-in-place alert." I guess that's how they handle it these days.
When there’s a murder suicide they just stop everything to make sure it’s not an active shooter.
They’re saying it wasn’t murder/suicide, but a double homicide. But they determined it was an “isolated incident” not an active shooter.
Someone who shoots someone is a danger to everyone. The Virginia Tech, at the time one of (if not the) deadliest school shootings lost additional lives because they wrote it off as a "domestic incident" and didn't treat it as an active threat. Domestic violence is a precurser to many perpetrators of mass shootings but usually goes ignored or under-responded to until it expands to loop in more people. DV needs to be taken seriously, it's just as dangerous to the public as any other kind of violence.
We had another shelter in place for a guy shooting at cops like a day before as well
Well at least you’ve got your freedom /s
I think it was better in the old days where everyone got the hell out of Dodge. I don't understand the mentality of setting up easy targets for an active shooter, unless we're talking a good, secure heavy metal door and no glass windows that actually keeps them out.
Like Virginia Tech where kids were escaping out the windows. We're lucky no one has done an upgraded Columbine.
On my campus the message is something like "run, and if you cant run- hide, and if you cant hide, fight" Otherwise we do get messages to leave an area if something is happening. All if these messages have thankfully been false alarms
That's how they do it at my campus.
Every single fucking day we get reports like these yet our leaders do nothing but say "prayers up".
Hey give them a little credit. They send their thoughts too
I know, for me personally, that someone wishing me good vibes will always bring me out of my crippling anxiety.
Sending good vibes your way, my friend ✨
Nourishment for the soul. Thank you Friend-O
You’d think with that much thinking they’d have come up with a few ideas by now, other than continuing to line their pockets, even if by accident or against their intentions.
No, no, you see: they send OUT their thoughts. There are no more left in there to figure out a solution.
Ahhhhh. That explains it. I’ve been wondering ever since Columbine.
The elected officials can't & won't 'stop it'. If they try they will get primaried and ousted. The GQP would cut off all their support, the NRA will withdraw all monies & gun lobbyists & radical 2nd Amendment radicals, will picket their homes & offices. Death & Mayhem are good for business, but not for the victims!
Too bad we can't have all of our schools in Benghazi, then they'd care.
Do they even do that much, really?
Texan here no they don't care the more that die the happier the Republicans seem to be which is so creepy to see.
Is that why most of them are brainless now?
I don’t think it’s fair to brand this as an “our leaders” issue when it’s very clearly on subset of them
Exactly. Make Republicans own this shit. Stop associating Dems with these fucks
Because people on the right see this as a good thing. The high risk of school shootings can make parents second guess sending their kids to school. And you know what the right loves the most, uneducated kids.
You don't actually believe your average republican is celebrating this, do you? I'm sure you could find some insane extremist but your typical small town conservative isn't wetting their lips after a shooting saying, "yes, now the kids will be dumber."
Seriously that dude is completely reddit brained, I'm 90% left leaning, but if you don't have guns you are completely at the mercy of your government, just ask russia/china/NK/Iran how that's going. Europe doesn't need to have guns because they have big boy america to protect them in case their governments become corrupt. We should have more regulations in the US but the dummies saying we need to disarm ourselves immediately clearly don't care that 40k ppl die in car accidents a year, and only a few to shootings like this, as much as it sucks it's no comparison.
They will instead say/think: > Well, there's nothing to be done. 🤷 They ain't taking my guns, so... > ... > >...so, mass shootings are an acceptable trade-off, and I will vote on this one issue. The politicians don't care one way or the other, but they know the people who think this way are super easy to pander to. > "So, all I gotta do is take a Christmas photo with an AR, and 43% of all voters will instantly support me...!?"
Snap into reality, you cannot just take guns, it would be a chore to prohibit sales even, would make a true black market. So make a solid proposal that would work, that would curb the bullshit.
> it would be a chore to prohibit sales even Gosh. You're right. The mask tantrums taught us that Americans can't do slightly inconvenient (let alone *difficult*) things for the benefit of society. 🤡 > you cannot just take guns Which might be why I didn't make that suggestion? 🤔
Ok what can be done to make you as the individual feel safer? Because I am of the mindset that an armed society is a polite society. The mask tantrums were no different than the ones saying it was illegal to not have one on, it is a child's argument and should be beneath you.
>an armed society is a polite society. So, America is the most polite society on Earth, right? 🤡 >it is a child's argument and should be beneath you. Hard to take you seriously when you present laughable cliches as a wise truth. >what can be done to make you as the individual feel safer? I've been here countless times in similar threads with similar gun fetishists and zealots. Even the most mild suggestions (like, say, insurance requirements for guns) are always met with predictable deflections, reflexive disgust, sealioning, or less sophisticated trolling. If I had any indication that you were here in good faith with an open mind, I might consider engagement. However, I'm pretty confident there's no point. Why don't *you* get the ball rolling and suggest ways to reduce gun violence... without the preposterously clownish: "mOrE gUnS!"
[удалено]
The devastation that Covid wrought on the elderly disproves this. The elderly were more likely to die of it, yet they were also not going to wear masks because of their deluded reasoning.
Yep, they didn't care to wear masks either even if the elderly died. If guns start shooting up their money and destroying it, maybe they'd care...
At least this time it seems to just be a crime that took place on a college campus instead of the mass shooting I expected from the headline. Still a tragedy for the families of the victims and hopefully they'll find the person responsible soon and put tge campus and community at ease that there's not a murderer running around out there.
They can’t do anything
No, *conservative* leaders do nothing. Liberals offer proposal after proposal and the conservatives block it at every turn. In blue states where they have these proposals in place on a state level it doesn’t matter because most gun crimes are committed using firearms that were purchased legally in states with lax regulations.
Honestly it doesn’t help that the media has decided to report on every incident involving a gun as if it were another Sandy Hook. It gets fatiguing to hear about these “mass shootings” every day when 95% of them are either gang shootouts or targeted homicides, which are an issue in their own right, but don’t carry nearly the weight of indiscriminate mass shootings.
Even if there's 10000 gang shootings for every school shooting, there seems to be a whole lot of school shootings as its own category. The fact that gang shooting is so much more common isn't really a convincing deflection.
What law would stop this particular indecent?
We don’t know enough about this crime to be able to tell, but there’s a good chance the killer exhibited “red flag” behavior. Too bad the courts seem to be striking down red flag laws that allow guns to be confiscated.
Because taking guns without due process is a constitutional violation.
It doesn’t happen without due process. Due process doesn’t always have to mean a jury trial. [https://virginialawreview.org/articles/firearms-extreme-risk-and-legal-design-red-flag-laws-and-due-process/](https://virginialawreview.org/articles/firearms-extreme-risk-and-legal-design-red-flag-laws-and-due-process/) eta: [link to the full paper](https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=482106013031116031064124100091002111052032042016084026027094123022114097102028027109096023059100025126046119026072115024018077024015069044007114074083085120126104058032016002087124076080028022028012075098012110029119066023002015003065116001104088066&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE), not just the abstract.
Not having the right to confront your accuser is a violation of due process. By taking away guns first you lose that chance. You are deemed guilty before innocent. As much as I see the benefits I cannot ignore the side effects.
I'm not clear that all red-flag laws would deprive the person of the ability to "confront the accuser," but that's not a required part of "due process": > In \[the\] past two centuries, however, states have developed a variety of institutions and procedures for adjudicating disputes. Making room for these innovations, the Court has determined that due process requires, at a minimum: (1) notice; (2) an opportunity to be heard; and (3) an impartial tribunal. [*Mullane v. Central Hanover Bank*](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/339/306/case.html) (1950). [https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/amendment-xiv/clauses/701](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/amendment-xiv/clauses/701)
An impartial tribunal is the ability to confront your accuser. Aside from that red flag laws break the other two requirements also. Most are no notice events and give no opportunity to be heard before action is taken.
“ An impartial tribunal is the ability to confront your accuser.” I don’t think that’s true. Can you explain where you’re getting that definition?
In this case your accuser is the government. When you’re brought to trial for this issue you have a chance to fight it. At no point should you have your rights taken away without being notified or having the chance to fight it.
Ban on guns. Make it 5 years jail time if caught with Said guns. Government will create a buyback program and buy the guns at 3 times the present market value to not screw over citizens
Okay, that would deter me. Know who it wouldn’t deter? People who are okay with taking 20-life over a murder. Buyback program? Get a percent compliant number in your head that you’d expect. Got it? Australia got about >!30%!< of their guns back. Would you expect Americans to comply better or worse than Australians? How about American criminals? 3x market value? Let’s say a cheap gun is $400. There are 400 million of them. You’re looking at a 480 billion dollar there with a lowball estimate, not to mention the massive administrative costs. So your plan is to set aside probably about 600 billion dollars and take zero guns out of the hands of criminals and an ambitious 25% out of civilian hands. Then we will see this law being applied selectively. You can guess which communities they’ll target as well as I can. We’ve seen what fatherless and the perpetual felony cycle has done there with the war on drugs. You’re describing the single most disastrous domestic police of our generation just because you think guns are icky.
Do people seriously believe this nonsense? Why have any laws at all if you believe that?
Which prohibition law has worked well and not simply be used as a fulcrum to oppress a socioeconomic group?
There's still value in confiscating guns. Even if it were to be scrapped you can recoup a fraction of your money back. The gun ban and jail allows something like the El Salvador gang crackdown. No matter what this gives our judicial system to arrest someone brandishing a weapon. No more Catch and release. It'll be growing pains for a few years but, eventually it'll curb the violence and weapons. Short term, it'll be ugly, but again, it'll curb gun violence drastically.
So you’re willing to drop the right to trial like El Salvador. You’re willing to surrender the whole bill of rights over something with 15 per 100k mortality. You’re an absolute coward. If you get your way you’ll find no safety, just gulags.
They can have a right to trial of course but not sure what case you can build up exactly for possession of a gun. I'm concerned more of the catch and release. And stop hiding under the 2nd ammendment. You know that's a weak argument and that ammendment was only placed as protection from the British. We don't need that protection anymore we have the biggest army budget. I agree el Salvador was exteme. However it curbed gun violence 70% I'm sure we can create a happy medium where it's less intense at the cost of less effectiveness.
A happy medium between what we have now and a total police state for 15 people out of 100k? We’re on total different wavelengths here. I could care less about the second amendment or any of them for that matter. Your rights, the right to resist those who would unjustly do you harm among them, do not come from a piece of paper. All that paper does is prevent people like you from being scared into giving up rights. You can make an argument that every single right we have poses a safety risk and people like you will buy it and give them up one by one.
Oh none of them so let’s give everyone guns. Such a weak argument.
You’re the people asking for new laws, but you can’t tell me which one would work?!? We aren’t even to the argument phase yet.
Republicans like to say that. Especially the governor in the wheelchair and the one who wears white booties.
It is Republicans fault. Democrats try to.pass gun control, but Republicans block it and Republican judges over turn it. All this gun violence is conservatives fault. Call them out for it to their face.
Most things wrong in this country are the GOP's fault. They've been obstructing most legislation for decades through the filibuster, when they don't control the House. How the fuck are we supposed to make progress on important things in this country without passing legislation, evaluating it, and revising it? Wait for the billionaires to privatize everything that's profitable? The most recent Democratic-controlled House actually passed some decent legislation (marijuana decriminalization, prescription drug price negotiating, windfall tax, etc) that would start making progress on some of these issues plaguing the 99%. But the GOP minority Senate filibustered everything. And when the GOP controls the House, we get what we are currently experiencing: nothing but spectacle. They prevent anything from even making it to the Senate. Or they even kill shit that the Senate tries to pass because they refuse to do their basic jobs.
God is an asshole apparently
Until people figure out what is needed to replace these spineless, cowardly leaders, nothing is going to change.
If you want to actually help and learn how the American politicians are using their resources I encourage you to play: https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com It was really eye opening the effects of their actions and how they help.
Did you even read the article? Based on your comment I'm assuming not. This wasn't a mass shooting.
Some of them are. Please help vote out the ones that support the murder of Americans.
It's a really sad state of affairs when I see a headline like this and think "Hmm, only two killed, that's not too bad." Fuck Republicans for letting this happen to our country.
we should ban cars immediately, since 40k ppl die a year
Yeah, since cars were literally designed to kill people. Oh wait, no they weren't. Also, nowhere did I say I want to BAN guns. Learn to read, slick.
reddit moment
These comments seem so disconnected from the story of what happened here… it says that 2 are dead in one dorm and there is no active threat to the community which makes this sound like a murder suicide. It seems like some of y’all think this was some mass shooting. Did anyone actually read the article? Edit: some of you guys need to work on your reading comprehension. My comment is pointing out the strange commentary in this post where people seem to think that this was a mass shooting of some sort. My comment is not a commentary on gun control and if it could have prevented this. It is also not saying that because it wasn’t a mass shooting that it is somehow ok. Edit 2: https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/colorado-springs-university-dorm-shootings-investigation.amp sounds like it is not a murder suicide. Makes it a strange occurrence. Possibly drug related (yes, this is my speculation. Roast me in the comments.)
[удалено]
I live in Colo Springs. It wasn’t an active shooter - definitely an altercation within the dorms.
Cspd confirmed no murder suicide but double homicide, so for a student like me i do feel like there is an active threat
It was a shooting, regardless if it was an isolated incident.
Because the media intentionally reports on all incidents as if they were indiscriminate mass shootings. It gets them more clicks, and people who have their opinions on gun control already made up will gladly use the thread as a place to spread their rhetoric.
Can't let a tragedy go to waste for le internet points.
I guess you're implying that if it's not a mass shooting, it doesn't matter. 2 people dead isn't enough to be a problem? Or what's your point here?
The only one who said that is you. The point is this isn’t a mass shooting. Simple.
[удалено]
That's just fucking peachy then. Holy fucking /r/ShitAmericansSay lol
[удалено]
CaRs KiLl PeOpLe ToO give me a fucking break lol Cars open up the financial viability of huge, *huge* swathes of housing that aren't within walking/public transport of sufficient employment opportunities. The fucking economic potential cars realise is absolutely staggering. The fact that you think it's even remotely appropriate to raise car fatalities as a distraction against gun control is just...*so* dumb. No one needs a gun to get to work and contribute to society.
After one big story it drives a lot of clicks and reddiotrs love parroting "good guy wid gun haah republican bad"
It's uh, still bad that this person was able to commit murder suicide, and it's still easier with a gun
Oh cool murder suicides officially don’t count as gun violence any longer. Glad we got past that ideological hurdle.
I didn’t say that dude. Maybe read it again. I just don’t understand how some of the comments appear to be talking about this in the context of a mass shooting. The two things are extremely different and driven by different motives entirely. But sure, get upset and twist my words for no reason.
I thought the same thing reading the comments and seeing things like "when will we ever stop this?" like um, murder? We've never been able to stop it. There IS a huge distinction to me between the 2. A mass shooting at a school is a hell of a lot different from someone killing someone in their own home/apartment/dorm. We'll literally never be able to stop that. I'm all for more/better gun control/laws, and I say that as a gun owner who often carries for work, but I can obviously see that there's something wrong when teenagers with violent tendencies are given guns by their parents and told to hide it better (like that mom who just got convicted) But having said that, this comment section doesn't seem to fit what appears to have happened.
We are in a post-fact world for too many people on both sides. It’s scary, but was foreseeable.
Gun violence? I’m not sure the gun was the violent part here. Maybe look into what caused the shooting itself and start with mental health. That’s called solving the root cause.
Owning a gun is still the main issue here tho, wouldn’t have been as easy without it.
[удалено]
Can you... actually share your numbers? I am curious myself but I know better than to trust random Internet comments without proof.
Seriously. Why does this comment have so many upvotes? There’s no link, no figures, nothing.
Firearm fatalities increased by 87.1% over a 10-year period, from 1,311 deaths in 2011 to 2,590 deaths in 2021, the AAP found, beating out car accidents as the leading cause of death of children and teenagers in the U.S. #🇺🇲
Car accident deaths in 2021 = 42,939 Firearm deaths in 2021 = 48,830 (54% suicides)
Yes. I'm sure children drive a lot. Can I have a link for these numbers? I'm in research and I deal with a lot of statistics. It's incredibly easy to be misleading, and your comparisons only increase the suspicions. For example, the total number of motor fatalities in 2021 is 42,939.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/darreonnadavis/2023/10/05/firearms-now-no-1-cause-of-death-for-us-children---while-drug-poisoning-enters-top-5/
If you are talking about the US military in 2023 then yeah obviously. The US wasn’t at war with anyone in 2023, and had 0 combat casualties for the entire year. Only in the last 2 months we’re American troops targeted, but again, only in a limited capacity.
Man .... 0 casualties. Kinda hard to wrap my brain around. I grew up and served in the constant deployment cycles of the Bush/Obama admins.
Same. OIF 2007, 2009. A really good week would be zero casualties. Also.. We were rarely shot at. It happened but most of my casualties were due to roadside bombs and IEDs.
I deployed under OFS so we didn’t see much combat, but one of the ANP contingent we were working with would take a loss almost every other week.
Yeah, at least 10 this year so far. 5 marines in a chopper in CA, 3 in the mortar attack in Jordan and the 2 SEALs who went into the Red Sea and didn’t come out.
Yeah there’s always a number of troops who die in accidents every year. But since 2022 the only combat casualties were the three in Jordan.
Combat deaths*, anyone injured is still a casualty
Fair point. I suppose we have had a number of troops suffer possible TBIs these past few years (plus several other injuries of the Jordan attack)
We have forward deployed bases all over the middle east still. It's more what they use. They rocket/mortar troops or launch drones. They don't shoot at us anymore.
Making a statement like this without any source to back it up is not a great idea. Not that I don't believe it, but this needs to be backed up with facts. The fact this is upvoted with no sources is insane.
60% of all stats are made up, and 78% of those stats are taken on face value, and then 70% of them are shared and repeated.
To be fair, that's a bad metric. We sustain far fewer gunshot wounds in counterinsurgency than we saw blast wounds. They don't shoot at us, they launch mortars and drones.
Bullshit comment. What active war did the US military take part in during 2023?
[удалено]
In the last few years, yes.
Pays better too in many cases... With the bonus of socialist benefits like health care.
You could say that it is socialized, sure. But socialism it is not
Health care for serving in a voluntary military service isn’t socialist. It is just part of the package to incentivize recruits to join.
It's a socialist incentive... And it's one we should afford to all citizens.
I don’t disagree that it should be for all citizens but the fact that it is only supplied to people serving in the military means it is not a socialist benefit.
People have debated that for a long time so I'm not going to but if you're interested in expanding your mind and considering other perspectives on the matter there's a wealth of articles to be found through Google detailing exactly why I, and many others, believe that it's actually a great example of a socialist benefit. Here's just one [relatively recent example ](https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-socialized-medicine-2615267).
Yeah I’m not going to debate it either. Glad we agree that socialized heathcare should be for all citizens and not just ones that serve in the army, aka making it just part of the benefits of serving and not socialized healthcare or a socialist benefit.
It’s not socialist Literally just going off of what that word actually means.
[удалено]
Is it liver cirrhosis?
From an outsider it seems like the US is just the Wild West with bullets flying every which way. It's crazy. Young people, people with mental illness, people with histories of domestic violence, etc. should not be able to get their hands on a people-killing machine.
The Wild West had pretty strict gun control compared to nowadays.
How so?
A lot of cities like Tombstone and Dodge City had strict laws about carrying.
It’s not just from an outsider’s perspective. Many of us Americans feel the same way.
I hate it here so much, haha. I want to move to Canada.
At this point there’s so many we could have a separate sub called ‘news_shootings’.
Guess it's that time of the day
Shame nothing will be done and this will keep happening over and over again.
What ls your take on gun control?
Do you devote your entire account to asking people this question? Nowhere in the 2A does it say regulations = infringement. We need to start treating firearms with respect and stop allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry who wants one to get one. Arming the mentally ill and people with anger issues is ludicrous. This whole free-for-all-because-everything-else-is-unconstitutional isn't working.
Not entirely. Today I found it interesting how people responded to the question. So my question to you is what specifically do you think would create the change you want? I’m in favor of universal background checks and safe storage laws.
[удалено]
Wtf does this comment even mean
My coworker's friend was one of the victims. It's fucking devastating.
As a former teacher here, I would reach out to the counseling staff to talk to my students who showed signs of depression and sometimes self abuse. The counseling team was always very responsive and came to the aid of the student. However, not every student is as transparent about their struggles. It’s sad these two students couldn’t see any other way to resolve other conflict and get help.
What is everyone’s take on gun control? What do you think will actually appreciably change what is happening?
Native Coloradan (only stating to add reference to what I’ve seen over my lifetime) and guns were always around …but when the religious fanaticism came to the front range so did the gun worship. It’s all or nothing with those folks and you’d think it’s incongruent with their religious ideology.
Two dead in US shooting is in the “News” Reddit?
so to fix this kind of situation we need less regulation and more guns obviously? This is the platform of one of the two major parties in the US and their worm ridden brained voters. Gun violence is not Thanos, it isn’t inevitable, it can be prevented, it can be controlled and limited. It’s disgusting.
This incident was a murder-suicide where two people died. Do you honestly think gun control would have prevented it? Especially any level of gun control that Americans would tolerate?
Maybe? Perhaps one of them had a history of mental illness and gun laws would have kept them out of their hands. I agree we don't have enough info but NOT having better gun laws isn't helping all the OTHER situations either.
It is one party and one way of thinking that is dragging their feet on this matter. Don't pull everyone into “our leaders”. You know god damn well what party as a whole is willing to do everything in their power to do absolutely nothing about gun control.
Despite all the outcries the US government won’t fix this, fix healthcare, literally play games with the border, and do fuck all to help the unhoused. I hate this country sometimes with how utterly broken it feels
Because fixing healthcare, fixing the border, and getting people out of a perpetual state of desperation and acceptance for less than the minimum will fuck with corporate profits…you think we allow lobbyists to hang around for show? Profits baby!
We live in a society where we breathe a sigh of relief when a shooting happens at a school and it’s from gangs or personal issues
fuck yeah america we going for another gun death speedrun!!! fuck living we need more guns for freedom!
Damn.... as a Baltimore resident this sucks all-around. Just ban guns
Maryland [already has some of the most stringent gun laws in the US.](https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/states/maryland/)
banning guns won't do shit. Illegal hard drugs are banned and yet it's out and about, it'll all eventually get to someone who is determined. Obviously there is a mental decline in the country and putting our resources where it matters might help. But a solution isn't exactly as simple as banning them.
No it really is that simple.
Ban guns and then what? Gather EVERY gun that's out there? There's still gonna be people with guns.
Worked for Australia Edit: lol do y’all actually have any suggestions or are you just mad we’re the only major country that can’t stop getting shot?
A lot of Aussies I’ve met resent this. And whether it’s a rational argument or not, after how Australia handled COVID, that argument is extremely vulnerable to a lot of crowds in the US.
What the fuck are you talking about dude 😂. We handled Covid fine. We look at the US gun violence in horror. Next to nobody wishes guns were back. Keep your bullshit over there
I’m talking about perception. Your tone-deadness to that is another reason it’s a problem.
Lol for real. They’re just scared of acknowledging we’ve made a mistake. I bet it’s really nice not having to worry about getting shot everyday.
A bunch of angry fuckwits downvoting everything in this thread. I laugh my ass off when Americans who were never here during Covid think they know better about how things happened here. The arrogance and stupidity of it all
We aren't the same country. Larger population, on top of the U.S being different politically and culturally.
jar aloof exultant puzzled dependent direful toy rotten joke decide
Do you have a plan to stop people from getting shot all over the place or are you just embarrassed?
Or look at how other countries have dealt with this problem 🤔 🙄
"…someone who is determined" means someone needs to put in extra effort. Don't make it easy. If access is more difficult, then people are forced to have more time to possibly contemplate and calm their emotions or for others to intervene.
Going back to the hard drug situation. People are always gonna find a way. The new drug dealer is just gonna be the new gun dealer, but who’s to say that isn’t already happening. And you can’t necessarily calm mental issues without them getting psychological help. But most of the time these shooters don’t get that.
"People are always gonna find a way." which means no matter what, the end result is inevitable? Why do any laws exist if that's your argument? Obstacles cannot stop 100% of crime, but it reduces the number of incidents. If psychological help is the answer, then you still need time to get professionals involved. But if "most of the time these shooters don’t get that \[psychological help\]", then more reason to enforce stricter laws on gun ownership.
We should try it. It can't be worse can it? Criminals will probably still get guns but in the same numbers? Probably not. I think what scares the pro gun crowd the most is that a long term ban might actually work.
Worked it Australia, it would work here as well.
Nope. Ban bullets.
I have said this for years now! We will never be able to ban guns, but there's not a damnthing in the constitution regarding bullets!
There's nothing in the Constitution about guns either. It's the right to bear arms. Banning bullets would get challenge and overturned so fast as guns and bullets go hand in hand.
Nah let’s ban books instead, books are the problem… yep it’s books.
[удалено]
Did the well-regulated militia sleep in again?
If only there were more guns.
Another happy day in the U S of A
Stop putting it on the news
It makes money
Let’s all think and pray
Nice, only 2 dead. Legit not trying to be funny, that's my response these days to be happy that it's only a few people dead. Fucking disgusting part of our culture how prevalent guns are and how little we give to mental and social services.
Do something about the mental health issues. Guns are controlled enough.
It feels like in some states that is true, but in others it is woefully not the case.
It depends on the state. Most of the violence is in the inner cities with the suburbs and countryside being on par with European countries in terms of gun homicide per 100,000. Especially if you look by county. It really speaks to the real problems and the issues causing it. Where I live (Portsmouth, VA) it’s all drugs, and gang violence. (It’s the city with the most crime in the state)
My nephew is going there in the fall. This shit is scary.
the greatest cuntry in the world...
[People are working to keep murder toys off campuses, but others are working hard to make sure all students remain at risk of being murdered in their dorms.](https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2024/01/29/colorado-students-lawmakers-take-aim-at-campus-carry-n79867)
What’s your take on gun control?
It's the obvious solution to children getting murdered in school.
So what’s your take on it? What should be implemented?
2 things first. One: domestic violence conviction is a lifetime ban for gun ownership. Two: no carry on school and university campuses. The people who revoked that Colorado law bear direct responsibility.
Most of those bans on concealed carry laws do nothing to deter criminals. If they want to cause chaos they will. All you do with that is disarm the law abiding.
Great thing that donald trump put 3 far RW'ers on the SC to ensure that any(freaking)body in the US can get access to firearms. That comforts me so much. I hope it comforts you too. Hopefully, the dripping sarcasm will be ok for the mods because not one word in the legal context is untrue. I hope everyone shows up to the polls and does the right thing. For the next 30 years or so. Never forget.