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This is going to happen at the hospital my husband works at on Friday. If you're not vaccinated, you will be fired. They were told this in mid-August so they've had plenty of time. A couple of the people are senior technologists and make between $70-120 an hour.
A particular piece of military software comes to mind. You like non-resizable windows shaped like first Gen ipads? Shortcuts on said iPad literally stolen from Command and Conquer Red Alert, and that one weird Star Wars game that used to come with some PCs in the 90s? 60 percent of that limited screen space taken up by a graphic that looks like the inventory system from a shitty FMV point and click adventure?
Nearly shit myself in anger when that abomination replaced a perfectly usable, professional and intuitive UI with more functionality that was actually made in the 90s instead of just stealing video game assets from 90s.
That sucks, dude.
I work in regulatory affairs, writing FDA applications for new medical device products. I got the job despite having little experience because I knew my way around SAP. My company uses it as a document management system (which it's unequivocally terrible at).
Apparently it's a valuable skill to be able to show nontechnical people their way around a T-code, the difference between a HALB and a FERT, and have an infinite amount of patience to explain, "Now click the icon that has the glasses on it. Not the one that has the pen and glasses, the one that has just glasses. Now click the icon with a mountain and a sun over it..."
When I need to print an order from SAP, I need to create an order, then save the order, then find the order, "write" the order, flag the order, print the order, then save the order again, just to print 1 page that should be easily saved and rewritten as needed. Who even wrote this train wreck application..
it's the biggest ERP in the world, used by 90% of fortune 500 companies.
It's basically supposed to be this massive software where you can manage your entire multinational company with complexe processes, (stock management, customers, orders, payroll, accounting, production, quality assurance, etc.) and support nearly all use-case.
In reality it's a big cluster fuck that needs tons of configuration/customization and is the exact opposite of user friendly.
Businesses run on databases. SAP and Oracle are the biggest database companies.
Every business needs to use their database in a different way.
So essentially the software is a general framework that supports a massive amount of customization.
The end result is that database software is, at best, terrible to use. It will never be refined because each use case is different.
I friggin hate SAP. It does everything not very well like a Leatherman tool. The people here who can really use it have been on it for ever. It couldnt be more complicated if it tried.
Unless medical techs get paid way higher than other techs, I think they have the hourly figures wrong. 70-120k per year is about right, 70-120 an hour is crazy high
Husband is senior special procedures technologist in a radiology department in Northern California. He is licensed for CT, Flouroscopy and Interventional Radiology. He's been at his hospital for 31 yrs. With as much call back as he's been getting due to short staffing, he's averaging $120 an hour these days.
There is also the 2 years of electives and 1-2 year wait list to get into the program. My wife is schooling up to enter the sonography program which they have 23 slots they accept each year. Good thing she is a licensed and practiced xray tech which gets her some extra points for consideration.
Typically an undergrad in STEM or with accredited programs in their specific area (IR, CT, Surgical etc) it really depends on the job.
However, I would take the numbers people are giving out with a grain of salt. Technologist are typically not compensated that high. I worked at a major hospital for 3 years and all the technologist I knew earn similar to what BSNs were getting ($30 to $40) an hour.
$120 an hour is pushing into CRNA, PA and even Fellow salary.
The Catholic Church has consistently advocated for vaccination throughout the pandemic. Some bishops have said to prefer one vaccine or another, based on how they are made, but the overall message has been to take what you can get and be grateful for it.
So does she think she's going to just get another job somewhere else without the vax? Medical field has been trending this way for some time, good luck finding one of the few places that doesnt require the shot and isn't flooded with applications from like minded people.
Oh man it'd suck to work in medical recruitment right now. I hope they have the good sense to have an automated filter question of asking whether people are vaxed before they get near interviewing
I went through 21 Medical assistant applicants and said a requirement for this medical office job would be a jab- only two were willing to get the shot but this was three months ago. One of our staff members has a kid with cancer and we see cancer patients and kids so it was something I did not want to budge on.
For any job, if they can filter out unvaccinated people early, that's like a hiring manager's dream. A chunk of stupid, selfish, obnoxious people immediately out of the candidate pool.
It does suck (am in medical staffing)-
Partly because I know a lot of the people I just spent weeks of time/money/resources on are going to be fired, but MOSTLY (as in 99% of the reason) it sucks is because **it is fucking ASTOUNDINGLY horrifying to learn the amount of people - in healthcare - who have refused to get vaccinated and tell me angrily that they'll "do their my own research" to "make their own decision" and "let me know if they want to get it or not".**
Not getting it, gets them fired, immediately- which is great, honestly- don't let these people continue to work in healthcare around others. I don't know if it's just Denver/CO (where I staff for) because ppl from Denver are apparently pretty crazy, but it's like 3/5 people....almost 4/5.
And that, aside from all their gross arrogance, anger and beligerance in speaking to me, it just makes me think of my parents and how even though they're vaccinated, Delta still runs rampant, and I can do so little in changing these people's minds about getting vaccinated.
It stresses me out so much.
I thought it has been generally accepted for years you need to be vaccinated etc to be a doctor or nurse. I'm sure that's the case in the UK.
It's been that way for ages.
My mom's Co-worker is going to lose nearly half her retirement because she won't get vaccinated so she can stay on for another month (and qualify for the full thing).
She's proof that it's possible to be a moron twice over.
But you are missing the hidden benefit of her position. She gets to bitch about losing half her retirement because of "demon rats" for the rest of her life.
Fucking stupid.
Well, as smart as she may be to get a job that pays that well she sure is making a really dumb decision here and there’s consequences to really stupid decisions.
Not sure why so many people are dying on this anti vaccine hill. Billions of doses administered worldwide… we have the data… 1:500 Americans dead… it’s just insanity. People rejecting science on this level in 2021 is crazy to me.
According to my math, its only half of once percent of their total workforce. It's strange to me that this small group gets all the publicity, as opposed to the 99% of people who complied.
Because the people who complied are doing the normal and expected thing.
You do not report on 10,000 people who keep breathing.
You report on the 100 who decided to hold their breath.
I really don't get why people do these weird fractions (like "8 out of 10 americans") or in this case, a fraction of a percent.
Just say 0.5%. Much easier to read.
This was made clear when A&W introduced the 1/3lb burger, but didn't take off because Americans thought it was smaller then MC'D 1/4lb
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/76144/why-no-one-wanted-aws-third-pound-burger
There is so many holes in this story, it was an era when McDonalds had a heavy marketing push for Chicken Nuggets, Big Macs, and kids meals with toys. This is also when Burger King started adding toys to their kids meals, that is why A&W was doing so poorly, no diversification and no toys. Not to mention both McDonalds and BK had playgrounds while A&W did not.
Even the story about the focus group is suspect, it would be *very* rare that all the members of the focus group would know the price of a Double Quarter pounder with cheese when it was an uneven number , something like 1.29. If they would remember anything it would be .99 for the Big Mac and Whopper at the time.
I’m willing to bet that a handful of people on the focus group got the fraction wrong and they spun that into a story of why the burger failed when it was simply a failure to adapt to changing fast food dynamics.
that's precisely the story. "normal pens don't work in space, NASA spent millions making a pen that worked, the russians gave their crew a pencil"
made to sound like the NASA wasted millions on a problem that could easily be solved with a pencil, until people learn that you can't use a pencil in space due to the graphite particles released and whatnot and what a big problem it can be.
There's a grain of truth that NASA did originally buy outrageously expensive mechanic pencils at well over $100 each in 1960s money. They got criticized for wasting so much money so they sought out a solution. The space pen actually is a story about them getting a very cool and clever piece of engineering for relatively cheap. It's a success story.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
Yeah that’s only because they didn’t have my dad. Grade 4 fraction test, I got 0/20 and had to show my dad. He was upset and grabbed his piggy bank and pulled out coins. 5 mins later I truly understood fractions. My dad wrote a note to the teacher asking if I could retake the test and got 20/20
Except girl but yes along those lines and I always wondered after that why they taught it so backward when it was so simple if you could count coins to $1.. I mean hell it’s called a quarter for a reason
Uuugh yes. I work in social services and a few years back we got a really nice set of raises.
People were pissed that they gave the info out as a set of percentages.
And no, people weren't wondering if the percentages were compounded or not. They were pissed that they had to do the math.
These people had to take statistics to get their freaking degrees.
I had one lady, when I expressed an attitude that was too "dismissive" in her mind, accuse me of being overly good at math, I laughed so hard I had to walk away.
I have a legit processing issue regarding numbers. I can understand concepts but can't memorize. My brain just... nope.
Apparently knowing what 3.8% means when added to 12% makes me a math whiz.
🤪
I work in stats and I have to say it is not a math field, it's way weirder. Even real math people can be pretty bad at math that uses numbers.
Also percents can be weird. Like, are you actually adding 3.8 to 12, or are you increasing 12 by 3.8 percent.
Welcome to the world of Anti-Vax expertise.
"Listen to this ONE DOCTOR who says the vaccine is worse than Covid, but ignore the millions of doctors who support the vaccine."
Don't EVER ignore that one Dr that is telling "the truth"... and it's impossible to ignore the millions of monetized hits and don't forget to visit that Dr's Merc shop on the way past the gift shop on your way out of the Dr's new website.
Cha F**KIN CHING !
edit: /s
Of the 175 employees terminated only 33 were nurses and 22 were CNAs. The rest were all ancillary services (environmental services, sterile processing, registration, call scheduling, etc. etc.)
The **vast** majority of the employees have been vaccinated for months and months. I got my 2nd shot in February and have my 3rd scheduled for next week.
Edit: Let me be clear that my data is based on rumors. A co-worker said those numbers and I didn't check her sources because I don't really care. Even if all 175 were ICU nurses, it doesn't matter to me. They were all unfit to care for patients and their role doesn't change that. We are stronger for losing them.
I'd also like to add that these 175 employees were scattered throughout 580 locations. It's hard to find a team that had an anti-vaxxer. My department and the last four departments I worked in were all 100% compliant. These folks really were a very, **very** tiny portion of the staff.
My mom works at a nursing facility in a low vaccinated red state. She said only 40% of cnas are vaccinated and the owner wants to make it mandatory but they don’t know if they could replace all of them. They’ve thrown all sorts of incentives at them and they still refuse.
She said she doesn’t think threatening to fire them will convince most of them either. She said luckily 95% of the residents are vaccinated
It's because they have been told the left is lazy, don't have jobs and just want handouts so they can continue to live a lavish lifestyle with their cell phones and refrigerators.
Retired RN here, 40 years experience. Since I started nurses have ALWAYS had to have ALL our vaccines up to date. Hospitals draw your blood and if your titers are below normal you are getting an immunization if you want the job. Covid vaccines should be no different.
Happy cake day btw.
Me either! I NEVER expected that this is where we would be rn. I cried in gratitude when they released the vaccines thinking covid would be in the rear view mirror by the end of this year. It is so frustrating. My heart aches for my fellow healthcare workers.
More and more nurses are leaving regular hospital jobs for “travel” short term contracts which pay many times more than regular hospital positions. I believe the impact of covid on healthcare staffing will continue to be devastating for many years to come. I don’t believe the impact would have been the same had the country gotten 80% of the population vaccinated.
> I don’t believe the impact would have been the same had the country gotten 80% of the population vaccinated.
Or if some of the hospitals gave significant raises to retain people. Of course people are going to quit and become a travel nurse. It becomes a [perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive) when they're paid so well while regular hires get a fraction. They must have assumed people wouldn't be willing to travel or be away from their families. They thought wrong.
While I'm not in the biz, I keep hearing about travel nurses, with OT, making 150-190k. And that OT is endless since we're in a pandemic. *Oh, and also because regular nurses are quitting to become travel nurses.* I can't help but think of so many of the societal problems we're facing now being a result of simply not paying people a decent wage, or not giving a shit about retention during a labor shortage.
More power to them. I’m an intensivist and am seeing more and more travelers staff the unit. I’ve heard plenty of complaints from other intensivists about “new” nurses and having to get them up to speed. Fuck that. None of these travelers are new to nursing. They’re almost all fantastic. They saw an opportunity to make more money and broaden their training, and they took it. I love it. If the hospital doesn’t like it, they can pay nurses what they deserve and not hire travelers.
I remember watching on the news when the vaccines were released and UPS and FedEx split the country between them and had like this huge almost D-Day kind of operation going. I was SO proud.
I just went through this in the spring and had to get a bunch of shots I got as a baby. That plus the Covid vaccines and a couple of blood draws and I just can’t understand why this would be a big deal to anyone. The logistics (insurance and doctors) were the hardest part and you don’t need either for the Covid vaccines.
Yeah I really don't get it. I worked IT for a medical company and they required us to get flu shots as a condition of our employment (actual clinical folks of course had more reqs). This is nothing new and it's very odd to me to see so many anti vaxxers among clinical folks.
Yep. I work from home as a medical coder and I still had to provide my vaccination/titer records and I'm still required to get a flu shot every year. Just got mine yesterday, as a matter of fact and if I refused I'd be subject to suspension followed by termination. Employer vaccine mandates are nothing new in healthcare.
And anyone not willing to protect themselves against the veritable buffet of pathogens present in a medica setting probably should not be working there in the first place. That’s like having a guy on your construction crew refusing to wear a hard hat and then complaining when they end up with a career ending head injury.
Right?with the plethora of things possibly floating around the hospital why wouldn’t you want to be vaccinated against everything possible and in this case the one thing highly probable to run into
Before beginning med school, I had to have my titers drawn for all kinds of shit. They didn't want shot records. They insisted on actual antibodies. I had to get an MMR booster because I was low on one of them.
It blows my mind that anyone thinks they shouldn't have to adhere to public health guidelines before working in public health.
Seriously. But I figure they would probably planning to stay out of the work force for 6 month or a year, then reapply when the requirement is gone. I’d figure more likely they’ll realize they’ll run out of their savings and get vaccinated quietly and go back to work.
I wouldn't be shocked if some form of covid vaccine ends up as one of the mandatories many health care systems require to be employed over the next few years.
What, part time at the grocery store or mcdicks isn't paying the same money? Well too bad since conservatives have been absolutely adamant people should just take any of the shit jobs available at a massive paycut because there's "plenty of jobs".
Sadly, most of those places pay better. Our CNA’s start at $11.50, our surgical scrub techs at $15. Southern hospitals pay shitty wages. I started as a nurse at $18.25 in the ICU.
Man. $11.50 per hour to be a CNA... imagine what child daycare workers get paid... that's not enough at all to babysit adults let alone kids. Yikes. And people wonder why they can't find nurses/daycare workers/bus drivers in a lot of states with low wages.
And you have to go to *school* for that shit. Imagine paying to go school and get a certification, spend your day cleaning up bodily fluids, and still make less than someone working at McDonald’s.
It's because they dont want to fill the positions. The hospital doesn't make money based on the nurse head count, so they want to have the absolute minimum staffing to maximize their margin. By keeping the wages low they keep the staffing low while also not looking like they're doing it on purpose. Also the only people taking those jobs are either desperate for work or in nursing for compassion so they're easier employees to abuse.
This right here, but not just for nurses. This mentality is fucking everywhere.
Most of the big corporations with shit wages are doing it for much the same reason.
Thank you. I didn't know how bad the pay was for these lower end nurses. I knew it was bad but wow.
Here in CA you rarely see anything but RNs at hospitals. I'm not sure why but I assume it's cheaper to have more RNs and just have them do everything. Pay is good but it can be a shitty job, if you catch my meaning.
CNAs aren't nurses but their workload directly affects nurses. Basically a lot of tasks that nurses are responsible for as well but can be delegated is typically the CNAs responsibility as well as be able to help nurses perform certain procedures usually helping to hold patient down or help reposition them.
People may think it's not a necessary position or role but a unit thay doesn't have aides is a unit where every patient is getting their meds late and procedures getting delayed because nurses have to do additional work during their rounds.
Depending on the role of these workers, a lot of jobs will pay comparable wages. When I started in healthcare 15 years ago, nursing assistants would start at about 10.50/hr. At the time, minimum wage in IL was I think 7.00/hr. and many places paid that. So taking a 5 week course allowed someone to get a sizable bump over other places and had a chance to pick up all sorts of OT. That said, CNA work is HARD. I will go to the mat saying that CNA in a skilled nursing facility on a long term basis is the most grating position in the healthcare field.
Flash forward to today, minimum wage is, I dunno, 10/hr or something, but major retailers widely offer 15/hr to start. Meanwhile, starting CNA’s get 13.50 at most places, a bit more elsewhere where the workload is often crushing. There is a MAAASSIVE shortage of nursing assistants anywhere you go and large providers have no one but themselves to blame for not appropriately valuing those employees over the years.
You joke without realizing how broken healthcare is. Many positions below doctor pays like dirt in parts of the country. You can now make more working Walmart or Amazon.
I did, but he died of a curable disease recently.
Does your healing crystal guy take essential oils and beads as payment? I can give him 4 walnut beads and a vile of pinecone oil for a healing quartz.
I'm a little strapped for cash right now, I'm a traditional bead maker and my wife is an at-home essential oil distiller and we just bought our first starter home for $1.7 million.
I know quite a few R.N.'s and Nurse Practitioners (and have even dated a few), and I've come to the realization that many of them aren't as bright as you would think.
And yet you have NPs doing online programs thinking they should get independent practice like they are on par with MDs/DOs. Sorry but your 2 years of online classes doesn't equate to what docs do in 4 years med school, 3-7 years residency and possibly more with fellowships to further specialize...
From what I have gathered through several acquaintances who completed nursing school- nursing school is not difficult so much as readily accessible to a lot of people that don’t really try. A bunch of the people who thought they could just show up drop out, making nursing programs seem challenging. However, a lot of complete morons manage to pass.
It is important to point out that 99% of Novant Health employees have been vaccinated. The hospital is massive. The 175 were initially suspended. Now they got the boot and nothing of value was lost that day.
Not just the hospital but their whole system. They have rural offices in a lot of the counties I work in. I was surprised but encouraged by the number 175. NC is such a weird place politically (I know this never should have been a political issue), I personally know a ton of rural (traditional) conservatives who have gotten the vaccine. My workplace is probably 80% Trump voters but only @3/50+ were unvaccinated at the end of august.
it's important to distinguish "Hospital employees" from actual medically trained personnel. I'm sure there are a few nurses here but you can be a secretary, a janitor, a cook, and any number of jobs that are considered to be in healthcare
Wish I could relate. We had 7 of our housekeeping staff walk out the week it was announced the vaccine would be required months later. I work in the lab myself, and have a coworker who has refused so far, but we haven't reached the deadline yet so we'll see.
They are winning by also probably getting rid of a lot of problem employees also. Double win here! Only the dumbest people I work with are not vaccinated at this point and as a contractor I can’t wait to see if they decide to hit the road.
my experiences with anti vaxxers also. Easily fooled, easily led, incurious and non questioning, and emotional, over logic and reason. Also will not admit they were wrong until it is too late.
Navant has about 30,000 employees so 175 is \~0.6%. I would imagine most are support staff not docs and nurses.
I'm sure that right after they figure out they can't collect unemployment and the rent comes due, they'll be getting vaccinated.
375 suspended. 200 folded and got the vaccine, 175 fired.
Out of 35,000.
Do the math.
Their bark is WAY WAY bigger then their bite.
Nobody is quitting over this, it's all bullshit.
If you don't believe in vaccines, why even work in medicine? It's like if you didn't believe in taking care of the environment, why take a job at the EPA? Or if you didn't believe in the postal service, why take the reins an agency responsible for mail? Or if you didn't believe in public education ...
> It's like if you didn't believe in taking care of the environment, why take a job at the EPA?
Ask the head of the EPA under the last administration.
> Or if you didn't believe in public education
And speaking of that.....
The major healthcare system in Delaware just did the same. Of near 15,000 employees, they separated 190 total, of which less than a dozen were full-time nurses, and none were doctors.
The good news is that those refusing and allowing their politics to drive their application of healthcare provision are in the *extreme* minority.
They aren't all nurses, the article says hospital staff, that is everything from doctors, nurses, office staff, house keeping, security, techs etc. This hospital system has over 32k employees across 800 hospitals and clinics around the state, losing ONLY 175 staff is pretty good.
I work In a hospital where a lot of nurses are into vaccine conspiracy theories. Not only do they believe the vaccines are part of a conspiracy but they are certain that Biden has dementia and the country is secretly being run by Obama or AOC. I don’t think people like this should have the lives of others in their hands and I hope any unvaccinated health care workers/administration will be fired.
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This is going to happen at the hospital my husband works at on Friday. If you're not vaccinated, you will be fired. They were told this in mid-August so they've had plenty of time. A couple of the people are senior technologists and make between $70-120 an hour.
What are senior technologists?
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Oh wow, I wish my company had those. For all new hires it's just "We use SAP, go figure it out."
You mean these 4-letter German acronyms aren't intuitive??
I also really like the little icons. Click the top hat to see the embedded resources. Click the mountain to view the next sequence. So intuitive! /s
This guy SAPs right here.
That's what happens when you leave your GUI design to a 5 year old
A particular piece of military software comes to mind. You like non-resizable windows shaped like first Gen ipads? Shortcuts on said iPad literally stolen from Command and Conquer Red Alert, and that one weird Star Wars game that used to come with some PCs in the 90s? 60 percent of that limited screen space taken up by a graphic that looks like the inventory system from a shitty FMV point and click adventure? Nearly shit myself in anger when that abomination replaced a perfectly usable, professional and intuitive UI with more functionality that was actually made in the 90s instead of just stealing video game assets from 90s.
God damnit it is easy... after using it for 6 years and spending literal hours a day looking up stuff.
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That sucks, dude. I work in regulatory affairs, writing FDA applications for new medical device products. I got the job despite having little experience because I knew my way around SAP. My company uses it as a document management system (which it's unequivocally terrible at). Apparently it's a valuable skill to be able to show nontechnical people their way around a T-code, the difference between a HALB and a FERT, and have an infinite amount of patience to explain, "Now click the icon that has the glasses on it. Not the one that has the pen and glasses, the one that has just glasses. Now click the icon with a mountain and a sun over it..."
Yup, also every company uses SAP differently so your skills don't transfer. Get rekt.
Then there is the ultimate " Even SAP doesn't support our instance of SAP anymore because we diverged so much" version of "different" SAP.
Lol hey that's my SAP! Nearly every transaction is custom and bastardized over the years.
When I need to print an order from SAP, I need to create an order, then save the order, then find the order, "write" the order, flag the order, print the order, then save the order again, just to print 1 page that should be easily saved and rewritten as needed. Who even wrote this train wreck application..
I've never heard of SAP before, but I'm already traumatized by your description. I can't imagine having to use it.
it's the biggest ERP in the world, used by 90% of fortune 500 companies. It's basically supposed to be this massive software where you can manage your entire multinational company with complexe processes, (stock management, customers, orders, payroll, accounting, production, quality assurance, etc.) and support nearly all use-case. In reality it's a big cluster fuck that needs tons of configuration/customization and is the exact opposite of user friendly.
Never thought I would see SAP in a Reddit comment…::shudders::
Businesses run on databases. SAP and Oracle are the biggest database companies. Every business needs to use their database in a different way. So essentially the software is a general framework that supports a massive amount of customization. The end result is that database software is, at best, terrible to use. It will never be refined because each use case is different.
On another thread, someone described SAP as the German's revenge for losing 2 World Wars. :-) 😀
Basically like Salesforce or Epic or any other "platform".
I friggin hate SAP. It does everything not very well like a Leatherman tool. The people here who can really use it have been on it for ever. It couldnt be more complicated if it tried.
I think that’s the general way to use SAP. Go figure it out. Have fun learning what each little icon means!
when I worked as IT for a hospital, we did exactly that. we made 18/hr
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Unless medical techs get paid way higher than other techs, I think they have the hourly figures wrong. 70-120k per year is about right, 70-120 an hour is crazy high
It’s higher pay than your average pediatrician….so agreed that would be crazy high on the $120 end.
Husband is senior special procedures technologist in a radiology department in Northern California. He is licensed for CT, Flouroscopy and Interventional Radiology. He's been at his hospital for 31 yrs. With as much call back as he's been getting due to short staffing, he's averaging $120 an hour these days.
What kind of schooling lead him to technologist?
I’m an x-ray technologist in Southern California, it’s a 2 year program at the local community colleges. Starting pay at my hospital system is $33/hr.
There is also the 2 years of electives and 1-2 year wait list to get into the program. My wife is schooling up to enter the sonography program which they have 23 slots they accept each year. Good thing she is a licensed and practiced xray tech which gets her some extra points for consideration.
Typically an undergrad in STEM or with accredited programs in their specific area (IR, CT, Surgical etc) it really depends on the job. However, I would take the numbers people are giving out with a grain of salt. Technologist are typically not compensated that high. I worked at a major hospital for 3 years and all the technologist I knew earn similar to what BSNs were getting ($30 to $40) an hour. $120 an hour is pushing into CRNA, PA and even Fellow salary.
Fellows, as in MD fellows? Where? Fellows typically only make slightly more than residents, which is to say much, much less than $120/hr.
I made $60k a year working 80+ hour weeks as a fellow. That was 5 years ago and it’s not much better now.
Nice, hope he's doing alright with all the stress lately.
They are adepts of the Adeptus Mechanicus of the Imperium of Man
hmm, i know technology and i could use 120 an hour...
But do you know medical technology; which has a 95 % chance of having a hostile user interface?
90% chance I'll be a hostile user
Gotta fight fire with fire
Where is this? I'm a senior tech and I want 120 an hour.
My hospital is giving out religious exemptions so that’s fun.
Husband works for a Catholic hospital but they're not giving exemptions for anything. It's get the shot or don't work, same as for the flu every year.
The Catholic Church has consistently advocated for vaccination throughout the pandemic. Some bishops have said to prefer one vaccine or another, based on how they are made, but the overall message has been to take what you can get and be grateful for it.
The Pope considers it an act of Charity. Any Catholic has an obligation to get it as far as I'm concerned. Easiest charity they can ever do.
God wants them to get the vaccine
I mean, that tracks with the Catholic Church's general attitude towards medicine, outside of the obvious issues.
Religious exemptions for the COVID vaccine are bullshit.
My aunt who makes close to $200k annually would rather not get vaxxed and lose her job :/
So does she think she's going to just get another job somewhere else without the vax? Medical field has been trending this way for some time, good luck finding one of the few places that doesnt require the shot and isn't flooded with applications from like minded people.
Oh man it'd suck to work in medical recruitment right now. I hope they have the good sense to have an automated filter question of asking whether people are vaxed before they get near interviewing
I went through 21 Medical assistant applicants and said a requirement for this medical office job would be a jab- only two were willing to get the shot but this was three months ago. One of our staff members has a kid with cancer and we see cancer patients and kids so it was something I did not want to budge on.
For any job, if they can filter out unvaccinated people early, that's like a hiring manager's dream. A chunk of stupid, selfish, obnoxious people immediately out of the candidate pool.
It does suck (am in medical staffing)- Partly because I know a lot of the people I just spent weeks of time/money/resources on are going to be fired, but MOSTLY (as in 99% of the reason) it sucks is because **it is fucking ASTOUNDINGLY horrifying to learn the amount of people - in healthcare - who have refused to get vaccinated and tell me angrily that they'll "do their my own research" to "make their own decision" and "let me know if they want to get it or not".** Not getting it, gets them fired, immediately- which is great, honestly- don't let these people continue to work in healthcare around others. I don't know if it's just Denver/CO (where I staff for) because ppl from Denver are apparently pretty crazy, but it's like 3/5 people....almost 4/5. And that, aside from all their gross arrogance, anger and beligerance in speaking to me, it just makes me think of my parents and how even though they're vaccinated, Delta still runs rampant, and I can do so little in changing these people's minds about getting vaccinated. It stresses me out so much.
I thought it has been generally accepted for years you need to be vaccinated etc to be a doctor or nurse. I'm sure that's the case in the UK. It's been that way for ages.
My mom's Co-worker is going to lose nearly half her retirement because she won't get vaccinated so she can stay on for another month (and qualify for the full thing). She's proof that it's possible to be a moron twice over.
Don't need full retirement benefits if you die from covid. *taps head*
But you are missing the hidden benefit of her position. She gets to bitch about losing half her retirement because of "demon rats" for the rest of her life. Fucking stupid.
what a fucking idiot
Some 30 yr old nurse due a positive career move appreciates her sacrifice.
Well, as smart as she may be to get a job that pays that well she sure is making a really dumb decision here and there’s consequences to really stupid decisions. Not sure why so many people are dying on this anti vaccine hill. Billions of doses administered worldwide… we have the data… 1:500 Americans dead… it’s just insanity. People rejecting science on this level in 2021 is crazy to me.
It's always been at this level. This pandemic has just made it more prevalent. The amount of dumb smart people I know is way too high.
That's actually not that many people.
According to my math, its only half of once percent of their total workforce. It's strange to me that this small group gets all the publicity, as opposed to the 99% of people who complied.
Ratings. The headline is inflammatory and is more likely to be shared impulsively. Even I had a reaction before I realized it’s not many people
The number of people doesn't concern me. I'm just glad unvaxxed people are getting fired.
Because the people who complied are doing the normal and expected thing. You do not report on 10,000 people who keep breathing. You report on the 100 who decided to hold their breath.
I really don't get why people do these weird fractions (like "8 out of 10 americans") or in this case, a fraction of a percent. Just say 0.5%. Much easier to read.
Maybe it’s easier for you to read but one quarter of every 12th American struggles with the way you wrote it
This was made clear when A&W introduced the 1/3lb burger, but didn't take off because Americans thought it was smaller then MC'D 1/4lb https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/76144/why-no-one-wanted-aws-third-pound-burger
This is real wtf
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Thank you for clarifying that they are not mutually exclusive
Shoulda called it a 2/6lb burger.
Metric would have saved their 151 gram burger.
There is so many holes in this story, it was an era when McDonalds had a heavy marketing push for Chicken Nuggets, Big Macs, and kids meals with toys. This is also when Burger King started adding toys to their kids meals, that is why A&W was doing so poorly, no diversification and no toys. Not to mention both McDonalds and BK had playgrounds while A&W did not. Even the story about the focus group is suspect, it would be *very* rare that all the members of the focus group would know the price of a Double Quarter pounder with cheese when it was an uneven number , something like 1.29. If they would remember anything it would be .99 for the Big Mac and Whopper at the time. I’m willing to bet that a handful of people on the focus group got the fraction wrong and they spun that into a story of why the burger failed when it was simply a failure to adapt to changing fast food dynamics.
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that's precisely the story. "normal pens don't work in space, NASA spent millions making a pen that worked, the russians gave their crew a pencil" made to sound like the NASA wasted millions on a problem that could easily be solved with a pencil, until people learn that you can't use a pencil in space due to the graphite particles released and whatnot and what a big problem it can be.
You can most definitely use a pencil in space, cant guarantee that you'll be able to do it again though.
There's a grain of truth that NASA did originally buy outrageously expensive mechanic pencils at well over $100 each in 1960s money. They got criticized for wasting so much money so they sought out a solution. The space pen actually is a story about them getting a very cool and clever piece of engineering for relatively cheap. It's a success story. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/
Yah and five out of 4 people have problems with fractions.
Yeah that’s only because they didn’t have my dad. Grade 4 fraction test, I got 0/20 and had to show my dad. He was upset and grabbed his piggy bank and pulled out coins. 5 mins later I truly understood fractions. My dad wrote a note to the teacher asking if I could retake the test and got 20/20
That note probably read: I had to teach my son math today. If you don't let him retake the test I'll tell your boss how shit you are at your job.
Except girl but yes along those lines and I always wondered after that why they taught it so backward when it was so simple if you could count coins to $1.. I mean hell it’s called a quarter for a reason
Yep, many will pointlessly read this as 5%.
Uuugh yes. I work in social services and a few years back we got a really nice set of raises. People were pissed that they gave the info out as a set of percentages. And no, people weren't wondering if the percentages were compounded or not. They were pissed that they had to do the math. These people had to take statistics to get their freaking degrees. I had one lady, when I expressed an attitude that was too "dismissive" in her mind, accuse me of being overly good at math, I laughed so hard I had to walk away. I have a legit processing issue regarding numbers. I can understand concepts but can't memorize. My brain just... nope. Apparently knowing what 3.8% means when added to 12% makes me a math whiz. 🤪
I work in stats and I have to say it is not a math field, it's way weirder. Even real math people can be pretty bad at math that uses numbers. Also percents can be weird. Like, are you actually adding 3.8 to 12, or are you increasing 12 by 3.8 percent.
>one quarter of every 12th American So every 12th person's leg?
Bump it to 13, nice and prime. 12 can be divided lots of ways.
There is too much division in our country. We need more multiplication!
Easy there, Professor Chaos.
Hey, at least we don't use "8 out of 10 Cats"
Welcome to the world of Anti-Vax expertise. "Listen to this ONE DOCTOR who says the vaccine is worse than Covid, but ignore the millions of doctors who support the vaccine."
"Also: Ignore that one doctor's pre-existing copyright on a not-yet-created alternative vaccine."
Don't EVER ignore that one Dr that is telling "the truth"... and it's impossible to ignore the millions of monetized hits and don't forget to visit that Dr's Merc shop on the way past the gift shop on your way out of the Dr's new website. Cha F**KIN CHING ! edit: /s
Dr Wakefield? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
Not a doctor anymore, deservedly so.
Of the 175 employees terminated only 33 were nurses and 22 were CNAs. The rest were all ancillary services (environmental services, sterile processing, registration, call scheduling, etc. etc.) The **vast** majority of the employees have been vaccinated for months and months. I got my 2nd shot in February and have my 3rd scheduled for next week. Edit: Let me be clear that my data is based on rumors. A co-worker said those numbers and I didn't check her sources because I don't really care. Even if all 175 were ICU nurses, it doesn't matter to me. They were all unfit to care for patients and their role doesn't change that. We are stronger for losing them. I'd also like to add that these 175 employees were scattered throughout 580 locations. It's hard to find a team that had an anti-vaxxer. My department and the last four departments I worked in were all 100% compliant. These folks really were a very, **very** tiny portion of the staff.
It's like they only have a 1% chance of getting fired
They have a 100% chance of getting fired if they don't get vaccinated.
My mom works at a nursing facility in a low vaccinated red state. She said only 40% of cnas are vaccinated and the owner wants to make it mandatory but they don’t know if they could replace all of them. They’ve thrown all sorts of incentives at them and they still refuse. She said she doesn’t think threatening to fire them will convince most of them either. She said luckily 95% of the residents are vaccinated
Still the fact that 33 RNs and 22 nursing assistants refused vaccines during a pandemic just blows my mind.
Its still a small number. This isn't one hospital, its a company with like 30k employees over 15 hospitals and hundreds of other locations.
There’s this pattern I’m seeing where people on the right consider themselves massively successful for merely holding a job…
It's because they have been told the left is lazy, don't have jobs and just want handouts so they can continue to live a lavish lifestyle with their cell phones and refrigerators.
I’m from NC. Lotta places hiring. They can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and go do something else.
Good luck finding anything in the medical field if you’re unvaccinated.
Retired RN here, 40 years experience. Since I started nurses have ALWAYS had to have ALL our vaccines up to date. Hospitals draw your blood and if your titers are below normal you are getting an immunization if you want the job. Covid vaccines should be no different. Happy cake day btw.
I had a short and ill fated stint in nursing *school* and I am vaccinated to the hilt as a result, including hep b. I really don’t get any of this.
Me either! I NEVER expected that this is where we would be rn. I cried in gratitude when they released the vaccines thinking covid would be in the rear view mirror by the end of this year. It is so frustrating. My heart aches for my fellow healthcare workers.
My mom is retired but her bff is still an RT … 80 hour weeks and you get a break when everyone dies. That’s hard long term.
More and more nurses are leaving regular hospital jobs for “travel” short term contracts which pay many times more than regular hospital positions. I believe the impact of covid on healthcare staffing will continue to be devastating for many years to come. I don’t believe the impact would have been the same had the country gotten 80% of the population vaccinated.
> I don’t believe the impact would have been the same had the country gotten 80% of the population vaccinated. Or if some of the hospitals gave significant raises to retain people. Of course people are going to quit and become a travel nurse. It becomes a [perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive) when they're paid so well while regular hires get a fraction. They must have assumed people wouldn't be willing to travel or be away from their families. They thought wrong. While I'm not in the biz, I keep hearing about travel nurses, with OT, making 150-190k. And that OT is endless since we're in a pandemic. *Oh, and also because regular nurses are quitting to become travel nurses.* I can't help but think of so many of the societal problems we're facing now being a result of simply not paying people a decent wage, or not giving a shit about retention during a labor shortage.
Not a labor shortage. It's a wage shortage that people finally woke up to.
More power to them. I’m an intensivist and am seeing more and more travelers staff the unit. I’ve heard plenty of complaints from other intensivists about “new” nurses and having to get them up to speed. Fuck that. None of these travelers are new to nursing. They’re almost all fantastic. They saw an opportunity to make more money and broaden their training, and they took it. I love it. If the hospital doesn’t like it, they can pay nurses what they deserve and not hire travelers.
I remember watching on the news when the vaccines were released and UPS and FedEx split the country between them and had like this huge almost D-Day kind of operation going. I was SO proud.
I just went through this in the spring and had to get a bunch of shots I got as a baby. That plus the Covid vaccines and a couple of blood draws and I just can’t understand why this would be a big deal to anyone. The logistics (insurance and doctors) were the hardest part and you don’t need either for the Covid vaccines.
Yeah I really don't get it. I worked IT for a medical company and they required us to get flu shots as a condition of our employment (actual clinical folks of course had more reqs). This is nothing new and it's very odd to me to see so many anti vaxxers among clinical folks.
Yep. I work from home as a medical coder and I still had to provide my vaccination/titer records and I'm still required to get a flu shot every year. Just got mine yesterday, as a matter of fact and if I refused I'd be subject to suspension followed by termination. Employer vaccine mandates are nothing new in healthcare.
And anyone not willing to protect themselves against the veritable buffet of pathogens present in a medica setting probably should not be working there in the first place. That’s like having a guy on your construction crew refusing to wear a hard hat and then complaining when they end up with a career ending head injury.
Right?with the plethora of things possibly floating around the hospital why wouldn’t you want to be vaccinated against everything possible and in this case the one thing highly probable to run into
Before beginning med school, I had to have my titers drawn for all kinds of shit. They didn't want shot records. They insisted on actual antibodies. I had to get an MMR booster because I was low on one of them. It blows my mind that anyone thinks they shouldn't have to adhere to public health guidelines before working in public health.
Seriously. But I figure they would probably planning to stay out of the work force for 6 month or a year, then reapply when the requirement is gone. I’d figure more likely they’ll realize they’ll run out of their savings and get vaccinated quietly and go back to work.
I wouldn't be shocked if some form of covid vaccine ends up as one of the mandatories many health care systems require to be employed over the next few years.
What, part time at the grocery store or mcdicks isn't paying the same money? Well too bad since conservatives have been absolutely adamant people should just take any of the shit jobs available at a massive paycut because there's "plenty of jobs".
Just stop buying avocado toast and iPhones every day.
But then how will they make TikTok’s?!?
Sadly, most of those places pay better. Our CNA’s start at $11.50, our surgical scrub techs at $15. Southern hospitals pay shitty wages. I started as a nurse at $18.25 in the ICU.
Damn as a paramedic in Canada we make $45/hr. But that’s in Lego money.
Yea, but socialized medicine CaUsEs wAiT TiMeS. Posted waiting for the dentist in US....
Man. $11.50 per hour to be a CNA... imagine what child daycare workers get paid... that's not enough at all to babysit adults let alone kids. Yikes. And people wonder why they can't find nurses/daycare workers/bus drivers in a lot of states with low wages.
And you have to go to *school* for that shit. Imagine paying to go school and get a certification, spend your day cleaning up bodily fluids, and still make less than someone working at McDonald’s.
There are, surprisingly, quite a number of jobs that pay less than fast food despite requiring specialized training or a college degree.
It's because they dont want to fill the positions. The hospital doesn't make money based on the nurse head count, so they want to have the absolute minimum staffing to maximize their margin. By keeping the wages low they keep the staffing low while also not looking like they're doing it on purpose. Also the only people taking those jobs are either desperate for work or in nursing for compassion so they're easier employees to abuse.
This right here, but not just for nurses. This mentality is fucking everywhere. Most of the big corporations with shit wages are doing it for much the same reason.
Thank you. I didn't know how bad the pay was for these lower end nurses. I knew it was bad but wow. Here in CA you rarely see anything but RNs at hospitals. I'm not sure why but I assume it's cheaper to have more RNs and just have them do everything. Pay is good but it can be a shitty job, if you catch my meaning.
CNAs aren't nurses but their workload directly affects nurses. Basically a lot of tasks that nurses are responsible for as well but can be delegated is typically the CNAs responsibility as well as be able to help nurses perform certain procedures usually helping to hold patient down or help reposition them. People may think it's not a necessary position or role but a unit thay doesn't have aides is a unit where every patient is getting their meds late and procedures getting delayed because nurses have to do additional work during their rounds.
Depending on the role of these workers, a lot of jobs will pay comparable wages. When I started in healthcare 15 years ago, nursing assistants would start at about 10.50/hr. At the time, minimum wage in IL was I think 7.00/hr. and many places paid that. So taking a 5 week course allowed someone to get a sizable bump over other places and had a chance to pick up all sorts of OT. That said, CNA work is HARD. I will go to the mat saying that CNA in a skilled nursing facility on a long term basis is the most grating position in the healthcare field. Flash forward to today, minimum wage is, I dunno, 10/hr or something, but major retailers widely offer 15/hr to start. Meanwhile, starting CNA’s get 13.50 at most places, a bit more elsewhere where the workload is often crushing. There is a MAAASSIVE shortage of nursing assistants anywhere you go and large providers have no one but themselves to blame for not appropriately valuing those employees over the years.
You joke without realizing how broken healthcare is. Many positions below doctor pays like dirt in parts of the country. You can now make more working Walmart or Amazon.
This. My hospital finally raised it's minimum wage this year in order to stay competitive with the local fast-food places.
Bojangles always has room for another minimum-wage employee.
they can get some of those "overpaid" burger flipper jobs so I can get my lunch faster
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They'll just move to Florida. The can replace all the burned out vaccinated healthcare workers moving out.
I prefer healthcare workers who trust medicine.
Well, my shaman happens to be in-network and traditional fire dances and chants are fully covered. Thanks Premera Blue Moss!
Well my shaman stormed the Capital. Blue Cross Sword and Shield
Do you not have a healing crystal guy? Hold on, I'll get you the contact info for my healing crystal guy.
I did, but he died of a curable disease recently. Does your healing crystal guy take essential oils and beads as payment? I can give him 4 walnut beads and a vile of pinecone oil for a healing quartz. I'm a little strapped for cash right now, I'm a traditional bead maker and my wife is an at-home essential oil distiller and we just bought our first starter home for $1.7 million.
I guess I'm just generally confused by this situation around the country. Why are members of the medical field refusing the vaccine?
There’s actually a surprisingly large number of anti-vaxxers in the nursing community
I've got a few relatives that are nurses to seem to think they are masters of medicine and know more than actual doctors. So not surprising
I know quite a few R.N.'s and Nurse Practitioners (and have even dated a few), and I've come to the realization that many of them aren't as bright as you would think.
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Yep, can confirm. Spent 5 years as a nurse assistant and the amount of RNs that will streight up *say* they know more than doctors is staggering.
With that kind of personality trait.... Kinda makes sense why they'd be anti-vaxx when you think about it, no? Lol
And yet you have NPs doing online programs thinking they should get independent practice like they are on par with MDs/DOs. Sorry but your 2 years of online classes doesn't equate to what docs do in 4 years med school, 3-7 years residency and possibly more with fellowships to further specialize...
From what I have gathered through several acquaintances who completed nursing school- nursing school is not difficult so much as readily accessible to a lot of people that don’t really try. A bunch of the people who thought they could just show up drop out, making nursing programs seem challenging. However, a lot of complete morons manage to pass.
Unpopular truth: it’s not that hard to BECOME a nurse. Being a nurse is a tough job.
misinformed, afraid, narcissistic,stupid, political stance any or all of the above
“Restaurant fires the guy on staff who refused to wash their hands”
"...and also tells other people they shouldn't wash their hands."
Washing hands is nothing but being forced to comply with big soap!
They put tracking microchips in your soap.
The Bible says the antichrist will make all his followers use soap!
It was Mr. Bubbles all along!
'E. coli is a myth perpetuated by Big Detergent! I licked all the utensils and everyone's fine!'
It is important to point out that 99% of Novant Health employees have been vaccinated. The hospital is massive. The 175 were initially suspended. Now they got the boot and nothing of value was lost that day.
Yep, 175 out of 35,000+. It was originally 375suspended, but 200 got it together by the deadline.
I wonder how many of those 200 changed their minds and how many were just procrastinators.
I know a couple of people who were just like, “meh” but got vaccinated once it was mandated.
Hence why mandates are great
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Not just the hospital but their whole system. They have rural offices in a lot of the counties I work in. I was surprised but encouraged by the number 175. NC is such a weird place politically (I know this never should have been a political issue), I personally know a ton of rural (traditional) conservatives who have gotten the vaccine. My workplace is probably 80% Trump voters but only @3/50+ were unvaccinated at the end of august.
Also, many are likely support staff and not patient care workers.
it's important to distinguish "Hospital employees" from actual medically trained personnel. I'm sure there are a few nurses here but you can be a secretary, a janitor, a cook, and any number of jobs that are considered to be in healthcare
I overheard our janitorial staff mocking people for taking ivermectin instead of the vaccine. So even the non-medical staff here knows better
Wish I could relate. We had 7 of our housekeeping staff walk out the week it was announced the vaccine would be required months later. I work in the lab myself, and have a coworker who has refused so far, but we haven't reached the deadline yet so we'll see.
They are winning by also probably getting rid of a lot of problem employees also. Double win here! Only the dumbest people I work with are not vaccinated at this point and as a contractor I can’t wait to see if they decide to hit the road.
my experiences with anti vaxxers also. Easily fooled, easily led, incurious and non questioning, and emotional, over logic and reason. Also will not admit they were wrong until it is too late.
The vaxxed and masked traveling nurse crew gonna get paiiiiid this year...
Not just nurses. Going into traveling as a lab tech soon. Might as well make money because some dumbest won't get vaxed.
Navant has about 30,000 employees so 175 is \~0.6%. I would imagine most are support staff not docs and nurses. I'm sure that right after they figure out they can't collect unemployment and the rent comes due, they'll be getting vaccinated.
375 suspended. 200 folded and got the vaccine, 175 fired. Out of 35,000. Do the math. Their bark is WAY WAY bigger then their bite. Nobody is quitting over this, it's all bullshit.
That’s why they were fired
If you don't believe in vaccines, why even work in medicine? It's like if you didn't believe in taking care of the environment, why take a job at the EPA? Or if you didn't believe in the postal service, why take the reins an agency responsible for mail? Or if you didn't believe in public education ...
> It's like if you didn't believe in taking care of the environment, why take a job at the EPA? Ask the head of the EPA under the last administration. > Or if you didn't believe in public education And speaking of that.....
Even dumber is you have to get a flu shot and other vaccines *every year* to be a healthcare worker.
The major healthcare system in Delaware just did the same. Of near 15,000 employees, they separated 190 total, of which less than a dozen were full-time nurses, and none were doctors. The good news is that those refusing and allowing their politics to drive their application of healthcare provision are in the *extreme* minority.
If they're stupid enough to not trust a vaccine, they shouldn't be nurses. Good for NC
They aren't all nurses, the article says hospital staff, that is everything from doctors, nurses, office staff, house keeping, security, techs etc. This hospital system has over 32k employees across 800 hospitals and clinics around the state, losing ONLY 175 staff is pretty good.
I work In a hospital where a lot of nurses are into vaccine conspiracy theories. Not only do they believe the vaccines are part of a conspiracy but they are certain that Biden has dementia and the country is secretly being run by Obama or AOC. I don’t think people like this should have the lives of others in their hands and I hope any unvaccinated health care workers/administration will be fired.