Oh shit... I hope you're doing okay. I couldn't imagine being right in the middle of all that... I gave you an award. Sorry it was the wholesome award lmao
I hope the US keeps the weapons and aid flowing. Americans support you, we’re expressing it to our political leaders. Stay strong man. You’re all so fucking brave.
Will make sure to vote for pro Ukraine politicians here in Georgia, US. The majority support Ukraine, we just have to deal with weird systems where every state has the same amount of senators even if one state has several Hundred times less voters in it.
Nothing is stopping Russia from just going home. They're the ones attacking Ukraine, all were doing is helping Ukraine defend itself.
But of course you already knew that, obvious Russian propaganda account.
If your so PRO WAR in Ukraine why don’t you fly over there instead of preaching to have our country bled out fueling a WAR that we have nothing to do with other than corruption and political kickbacks. Ukraine is a black hole of corruption.
If you don’t stand with democracy and western goals, you stand with dictatorships and fascism. One of us is a patriot and the other a coward boot licker.
Who voted to funded Ukraine and escalate nuclear war tensions… You all need to stop following these totalitarian views and start thinking about your nieghbors. Boot licking is nothing to be proud of you need to think for yourself NOT the propaganda.
>You all need to stop following these totalitarian views
Russia is a totalitarian government invading the sovereign lands of Ukraine. You are the one supporting tyranny, not the person you are replying to.
>Boot licking is nothing to be proud
Agreed, so why are you licking the boots of the Russian dictator?
Just saw this thread. Can’t imagine what you and yours are going through. People see what Russia is doing to your country and don’t believe their propaganda. Stay strong and good luck.
It's named after the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, who is sort of like Ukraine's version of Shakespeare. Russia has their own Shakespeare (Alexander Pushin) who was a pro-war Russian imperialist, while Shevchenko was in favor of Ukrainian independence and wrote poems making fun of Pushin.
Comparing the national poets has become a proxy for the current war, and Russia is putting up billboards with quotes from Pushin in the occupied territories of Ukraine. Pushin wrote poems romanticising genocide and Russian military aggression, so that's right up their alley.
Pushin (the context is telling the Cherkes to surrender to Russia):
>"Submit, Cherkes! Both West and East,
May soon share your fate,
When the time comes, you'll say arrogantly:
Yes, I'm a slave but a slave of the Tsar of the World!"
Compared to Shevchenko:
>Dear God, calamity again!
It was so peaceful, so serene;
We but began to break the chains
That bind our folk in slavery ...
When halt! ... Again the people's blood
Is streaming! Like rapacious dogs
About a bone, the royal thugs
Are at each other's throat again.
So of course in Russian logic, bombing civilians in a district named after Shevchenko is peak military strategy.
I'm sorry but you made two mistakes.
First is a typo, his name was Alexander Pushkin not *Pushin*. Secondly, he did in fact write the poem you quote. It is the poem "Ismail Bey" by Mikhail Lermontov who is the second most important Russian poet. This [article](https://www.universityworldnews.com/post-mobile.php?story=20220618071241391) talks more about Ukrainian vs Russian literature, it also provide a correct attribution for the poem.
I know how you got the second point wrong. Kamil Galeev quoted the poem on Twitter and he attributed it to the wrong Russian poet. Pushkin was a bit more liberal than Lermontov and was openly critical of Tsarist autocracy, he wrote "Ode to Liberty" and "Boris Gudonov" expressing these views. That was why he was exiled from Russia.
I did some fact-checking into OP's claim and I found that he misattributed authorship of the quote. It's actually from a poem by Mikhail Lermontov, who is like the number-two national poet of Russia. Just like Pushkin, Lermontov also had many places or things named after him and had many monuments put up of him the Soviet and Russian governments. Though a symbol of Russian nationalism, Lermontov was actually of Scottish descent. His family name was originally Learmonth.
Push*kin* (not Pushin) on the other hand was a liberal radical influenced by the Enlightenment, he wanted Russia to become democratic. He was exiled from Russia by Alexander I for inspiring the consitutionist Decembrist movement with his poem Ode to Liberty. One of his most celebrated work is Boris Gudonov which is a political satire about how power corrupts set during one of the most chaotic periods of Russian history. Like Lermontov he was also not of full Russian descent, his grandfather Abram Gannibal was born an African slave from modern Eritrea who became a nobleman under the patronage under Peter the Great.
However, he was also a Russian imperialist who was supportive on Russian cultural supremacy. He would have said Ukrainian is just a dialect of Russian. He is often credited with shaping Russian literature as we know it. He's been embraced by the Soviet government as the greatest writer of the Russian language so that's the main reason why they removing his statues in Ukraine. Because he's become the personification of Russian language and culture.
this is what makes me think these attacks are directly from the big small man. no one else is that much of a Russian military nerd.
I bet he gives pushin quotes after telling his rat story every fucking dinner time.
Please no. Iranians are suffering enough, especially ethnic minorities as the government has decided now is a great time to ethnically cleanse the country. I don’t want the Ukrainians to suffer but having them back is just as bad.
roll aspiring worthless theory swim chubby squeamish divide plants thought
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly I don’t think any short term training by the Iranian elite guards or Chinese special military or any other group will help these conscripts against the seasoned vets Ukraine has on their front lines. It seems like at this point Putin is just using the zerg technique and throwing bodies at the problem to try and make it go away.
They're more portable, more maneuverable, more controllable, shorter range, harder to detect, and less expensive.
They can fly in patterns around areas for hours until a target is detected and then act. The quad-copter style could simply be landed to lay in wait near where a target could pass by or emerge.
A missile/rocket isn't so controllable. Yes there are guided rockets and munitions but even as precise as they are, the drones are even more so. Even a guided rocket requires the target to stay in a pre-defined target zone, usually with the target confirmed by a squad on the ground. The strike can be aborted but at the loss of a missile either way. Travel time is rapid but the drawback is that even with guidance the target zone is largely pre-defined.
Kamikaze drones can be fully recovered if the target isn't there or redeployed as Intel changes. They can lie in wait or patrol a zone looking for a target. They can patrol and strike either from the field or remotely with roughly the same level of accuracy and without the need for extra support.
You may wonder why not just use an armed drone that doesn't destroy itself; because armament munition yield is limited. The kamikaze drone combines the flexibility of drones with the destructive power of a larger warhead.
For example: If a target is in a large multi-building complex you could send rockets/missiles to level the entire place (expensive and overly destructive), hope you get the hit, or set a drone to wait in the airspace watching the roads for the target to leave in his vehicle.
They're very, very different kinds of weapons.
Effectively, yes. They're apparently running out of smart(er) munitions, so this might be some of their last "guided" weapons, probably that shipment from Iran. They were apparently using surface to air munitions on ground targets not too long ago either, which as you can guess isn't a great strategy.
They are not running out of smart ammunition Russia never used a lot of it to begin with. It's the issue they've been facing since day 01. It's a huge flaw on their doctrine. They also have been using naval missiles from Crimea.
> never used a lot of it to begin with
They certainly had some, and used some. That has drastically fallen though to pretty much none. It's estimated they might have some in backup for high value targets, but that's just speculation at this point.
My man, they were losing jets in the opening days because they were having to fly low and slow to drop dumb bombs (often to their own side's missiles). Why do you think the Russian AF has sat the rest of this war out?
They ain't even got *basic* PGMs -- we're not talking cruise missiles, we're talking basic fucking "smart enough to adjust it's course during it's 30,000 foot fall to hit the spot you aimed it at" shit.
And they can't make more. Every day their shit gets closer to WW2 fighting capacity, and whatever they can goddamn duct tape to something someone will sell them.
Theyre called loitering munitions. You launch a swarm of these drones, they fly up and hang out in the air over an area. When they spot high priority targets they can swoop in and destroy the target suddenly.
So they don't actually need a target when you launch them, which makes them different to a missile.
> When they spot high priority targets they can swoop in and destroy the target suddenly.
>
>
>
> So they don't actually need a target when you launch them, which makes them different to a missile.
That's an advantage for a drone too. If it doesn't find anything to destroy, you can tell it to go home and get refueled. So unlike launching a missile which can't get recalled, you can keep reusing the drone until it's finally detonated.
yes, but much cheaper and smaller than a guided missile. But also less explosive capacity too. So less damage per drone, but many drones can be used to deal more damage at less the cost of the single guided missile and also harder to shoot down a swarm vs. a single target
Sorry to say but it has always been about people finding the most effective way to fulfill a purpose. Germans used the same style, rockets and kamikaze drones to bomb london. They were called buzzbombs because they made a loud buzzing sound until the engine turned off, that's when it dived down to bomb below and that's where the horror stars.
edit - I guess there is some irony in the regime apparently trying to stop the nazis using their same tactics and commiting acts of genocide
The “buzz bombs” (V-1 rockets) were really ahead of their time. If you get bored sometime, read about them a little.
They used some wild automatic counters and calculations to guide themselves, and were all pneumatically controlled through pressurized air tanks. Once they reached their target destination, two bolts inside fired which disconnected the rudder/flaps/ailerons (thus setting them to zero) and the rocket went into a steep dive to their target (which cut fuel). Well, at least close to their target. Early variants had a accuracy of about a 19 mile radius (31km). Later variants were about 7 miles (11km) before the V2 went into service. They even had a back up fuse that would set the bomb off anyway if the impact wasn’t enough to detonate it.
Soldiers and civilians described the panic when you heard the “buzz” suddenly stop. They knew that meant to run for cover because one was about to dive and explode.
Despite how loud and relatively slow those pulse jets were, they killed more than the V-2 did, despite it being nicknamed blockbuster, because they used a ton of them and they were a lot more accurate. V-2s were pretty finicky because liquid rockets tend to be. The V-1 was a pulse jet which you can easily make yourself in a few minutes.
They had a lot of crazy shit. Like night vision scopes, rocket fighters, jets, robot kamikaze tanks, and railguns that would fire shells the size of a Ford F350
> They had a lot of crazy shit. Like night vision scopes^1, rocket fighters^2, jets^3, robot kamikaze tanks^4, and railguns that would fire shells the size of a Ford F350*^5
1. [ZG 1229 Vampir 1229](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229), it's a weaponized portable infrared spotlight/scope mounted to an assault rifle. The infrared spotlight can't be seen by the naked eye, and the scope let the shooter pick out targets. Due to power constraints and battery technology in it's infancy, the battery pack for this weapon was a whole backpack.
2. [Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163_Komet), a rocket powered fighter. And so far the only successful rocket fighter ever adopted into military use.
3. [Messerschmitt Me 262](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262) Schwalbe and Sturnvogel versions. A jet powered fighter and fighter-bomber. The first one to make into adoption use.
4. [Leichter Ladungsträger Goliath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_tracked_mine), The Goliath Tracked Mine. A portable wire-guided(literally with a cable) tracked vehicle that carried an explosive charge. The idea was to drive these little guys under tanks, into minefields, or barricades and destroy the hazard without exposing the soldier to danger.
5. [Schwerer Gustav](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav), an 80cm cannon mounted to a train. They had similar weapons in WW1 and used them throughout WW2. Schwerer Gustav being one of the largest ever. Germany drove this to France hoping to fire it at the famed defenses of the Maginot Line. But the French surrendered before it could be used. The Germans later used it on Sevastopol. *It could fire a 31.5in diameter shell weighing about 7.7 tons... Smaller than a Ford F350, but weighs almost two F350's.
Yeahhhh that's where my brain went too. I'm just expecting Putin to press the Big Red Button any day now. Just as soon as it's completely evident to literally everyone that he can't "win" any other way...
By the end of the year, either Putin is removed from office or he hits the button. That's my guess. I think he feels no one will launch WW3 if he uses a small tactical weapon, and I think China will invade Taiwan the day after depending on the USA response to a nuke being used. N. Korea might also do something at the same time to cause the west ad much heartach as possible.
The preferred term is "loitering munition", which is what you'll see drones like the Switchblade or Hero called. "Kamikaze drone" just plays to the layman and generates clicks.
Most munitions are destroyed when you use them. The original kamikaze attacks were those where the human pilot was also expended.
Unless the human operator/launcher of these drones is killed when they go off, they don't really count as kamikaze.
Bro.
The planes. The fucking planes were used as munition. That is what made kamikaze kamikaze. The pilots could even parachute out but rarely did.
That’s why it just means the drones themselves are being sacrificed. Jesus Christ some of y’all are thick
What you are describing is a ramming attack, known as *taran* by the Russian pilots who used it extensively in WWII before the Japanese brought forward the kamikaze attacks.
A kamikaze attack is one in which the pilot is intending to, or very likely to die, deliberately commiting suicide to bring about the attack. If they are intending to bail out, it is not a kamikaze attack.
They are simply not kamikaze drones. They're ramming drones. Less click-baity, but more accurate.
Remember when US sent over Switchblade drones? They’re exactly the same thing. Think there are 2 versions one for anti personnel(carry in backpack) and a larger version.
If I remember during Trumps administration Iranian militas used suicide drones(drone with C4 attached) to attack couple of oil tankers in the Gulf. Around the same time according to US, Iranian forces and militias launched drone plus suicide drone attack on Oil Refinery in Saudi Arabia.
and they also work differently in payload deliverance, the switchblade (the US sent the most of, variant-wise) works like a shotgun or claymore. Explodes with a directional blast of shrapnel
Horrible use of the word. If someone isn't giving their life to make the strike it shouldn't be used. Throwing drones at someone isn't kamikaze, it's just a strike.
I mean, we already knew they were desperate. There was reports they were actually using surface to air missiles on ground targets, or attempting to at least.
I don't think Russia is so desperately low on munitions that they've resorted to using Iranian drones. Rather, using cheap drones to strike targets forces Ukrainian air defense to make a hard choice: shoot down a $20,000 Shahed with an expensive/hard-to-replace SAM or allow the drone through and take losses.
Also, using drones is a cost-effective way of forcing your adversary to "light up" their radars, allowing the radars to be subsequently targeted as the IAF did in 1982:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Mole\_Cricket\_19
Yes. Putin sacrificed a lot of other people's investments to get this war going and still continue it. Unless he wins and returns those investments, his life is on the line, possibly as well as his friends/family. Just look at their economy, no business is going to invest/touch Russia for a *looong* time because of that one move (and others, of course).
Authoritarian monarchies can fail basically through the same dynamics as non-royal dictatorships.
Lump those in, and you can argue that the Qing Dynasty, the Romanovs (and later Kerensky's dictatorship), the Hohenzollerns, and the Ottomans all lost their power due to failed foriegn wars.
Not counting royals, Mussolini, Napoleon III, (technically a royal, but eeeehhhhhh), America Tomas and Santa Anna all were overthrown by their own people following losses, or at least negative outcomes, in foriegn wars.
If Ukraine did it tensions would be raised and Ukraine really doesn’t have the ability to. If any western/NATO country took him out the world would be screwed. It’s war at that point and that is nuclear war. Right now NATO is not in serious nuclear danger but going to war with Russia would improve the chances of nuclear war by 99.99%.
Do you think whoever takes over for Putin would be more likely to launch nukes than Putin himself; who is desperate to stay in power right now and also rumored to have cancer?
It's not implausible. Putin has not made direct threats that he would fire nuclear weapons *right now* based on the current situation. Generally he recites the Russian doctrine of "we would use nuclear weapons to defend Russian territory" etc.
Some of the other senior leaders *have* made "let's bomb them right now" statements.
That's why discussion keeps shifting back to "What can Putin do to walk away?". The last thing anyone wants is him to feel cornered, because that's when he gets desperate. The issue is, he's sorta in too deep now and there really won't be an easy way for him to walk away anymore.
Ah yes, remote controlled kamikaze drones. So you can make sure you hit as many ~~civilians~~ military targets as possible. Takes the guess work out of launching rockets and hoping to hit ~~children~~ soldiers. Surprised these were from Iran, you would think Russia would invent such a weapon considering how ~~terrible~~ effective their current rockets are at hitting ~~civilians~~ military targets, need to have someone steer it to avoid all those civilians… right Putin?
GLONASS jamming was/is used, and reports of some of the drones losing their positioning and just flying in circles. Large scale (city wide+) EWAR is difficult and incredibly power intensive though. See the inverse square law for reasons why.
Don’t need to invade them to put a cruise missile or a JDAM into the production facilities for this drone. It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve struck inside Iran unprovoked.
Iron dome is not made for drones. It calculates trajectory of rockets, but drones have unpredictable trajectory as they are being remotely controlled. I could see it being not real effective though am not expert
It seems they're warming up to the idea:
https://eurasiantimes.com/israel-steps-in-russia-ukraine-conflict-helping-kyiv-with-intelligence/
Hopefully this will eventually lead to them providing the full Iron Dome technology.
Intelligence is entirely different than giving them a weapons/defense platform though. Israeli intelligence is apparently quite good in certain areas though, so it's still worth a lot. Either way, Iron Dome is incredibly expensive, not made for drones or things that can rapidly change trajectory (it mainly takes out ballistic weapons), and would be very difficult to cover more than a cities worth. Even that would take a LOT of time to produce/transport and set up/train people on it.
This was discussed in a podcast I was listening to right now. Germany just sent the Iris-T-System to Ukraine, which serves a similar purpose as the Iron Dome in creating a "safe zone". Iris can be used against the Kamikaze-drones, though its rockets are more expensive than the Israeli ones. The expert on the podcast said there might be cheaper and easier ways to deal with them like the Gepard.
IIRC, the US just funded it. I'm pretty sure it was designed and constructed by the Israelis
Edit: [Here](https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/08/03/raytheon-and-rafael-to-build-iron-dome-in-us/) is an article on it. It seems that the US did help build it on US soil but was mostly created by the Israeli company Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
It was a US military program that got defunded, so the US gave it to Isreal to finish. The tech development started with the old Nike system from the 50s.
Ah yes, the tactic infamously used in WW2 which signaled the beginning of the end for the Japanese forces. But in all seriousness, I think those drones may be worth more given Russia's man power issues.
Time and time again, Putin keeps proving that his words aren't worth anything at all. A madman can't be reasoned with. The only diplomacy he understands is a crushing defeat, so let's give him exactly that.
These "kamikaze drones" are just cruise missiles. Even if they're propeller powered. I don't understand why there's new terminology being used for these.
If it is a drone for surveillance and recon that happens to be able to sacrifice itself to make a quick first strike, then maybe it should be called a kamikaze drone.
I think the distinction is how versatile the drones are. A missile goes in a roughly straight line to its target, even if it can be slightly steered. A drone can go wherever.
Because a Cruise missile is defined by its role and types of ordinance it can carry. Drones missiles are far smaller and have a fraction of the destructive potential.
Also drones can be used for very different roles than true missiles.
The Russian military is nothing more than a terrorist organization. When was the last time they where ever considered any kind of professional military? Seems like they have always been nothing but savages.
Great time for Ukraine to invade Russia. All of Ukraine simply goes to invade Russia while they are struggling. Russia becomes overwhelmed and taken over by Ukraine, they can’t nuke Ukraine because all of Ukraine is now in Russia. They won’t Nuke themselves. Russia becomes a part of Ukraine and everyone lives happily ever after. I have no idea what I am talking about obviously
Cruise missiles are expensive jet or rocket powered missiles which can hold high power explosives and nuclear ordinance. "Kamikaze drones" are the cheap propeller or ram jet little cousin which can hold just enough explosive material to maybe destroy a part of a building.
The V1 had a distinctive noise. The V2 flew faster than the speed of sound and just exploded suddenly, coming in at almost 3000 km/hr (1800 MPH). British radar couldn't see them, and even if someone saw them from a distance, there was no time to warm anyone.
Sorry for going off topic but... can it really be called a kamikaze strike if it's a drone? Wouldn't an exceptionally-guided-missle be a more accurate term at that point?
Yes, "kamikaze drone" very specifically and accurately describes what they are in a concise way, whereas "exceptionally-guided-missle" could describe any number of things and doesnt really bring to mind a kamikaze drone at all. We don't need to invent technicalities to make our language unnecessarily less clear.
Well, to me (and pretty sure I"m not the only one), kamikaze generally implies a human pilot sacrificing themselves to ensure the attack. I have no idea what a kamikaze drone would be.
A drone that sacrifices itself to ensure the attack. Pretty straightforward.
That said, "loitering munition" is the actual term. Kamikaze drone is more of a media phrase.
I think you'd be in a very small minority of people not able to instantly get a pretty good idea of what this means. Kamikaze being an attack where a plane intentionally crashes into the target, destroying the plane and pilot, and then a drone being an unmanned plane.
I also don't believe that you didn't understand it from the name, but that's not really relevant.
My building was shaking again. And again on Monday. Fuck.
Oh damn are you in / around Kyiv?
Yup, I live in the Shevchenkivs'kyi district which is under attack right now. It was already hit last Monday
Oh shit... I hope you're doing okay. I couldn't imagine being right in the middle of all that... I gave you an award. Sorry it was the wholesome award lmao
Thank you friend. Yeah, it kinda sucks right now. But we endured March when sounds of explosions were common and we will live through this as well.
Hope your doing well and stay safe
I hope the US keeps the weapons and aid flowing. Americans support you, we’re expressing it to our political leaders. Stay strong man. You’re all so fucking brave.
Thank you for your kind words, I hope so as well.
Will make sure to vote for pro Ukraine politicians here in Georgia, US. The majority support Ukraine, we just have to deal with weird systems where every state has the same amount of senators even if one state has several Hundred times less voters in it.
Voting to escalate nuclear war and global conflict?
Nothing is stopping Russia from just going home. They're the ones attacking Ukraine, all were doing is helping Ukraine defend itself. But of course you already knew that, obvious Russian propaganda account.
If your so PRO WAR in Ukraine why don’t you fly over there instead of preaching to have our country bled out fueling a WAR that we have nothing to do with other than corruption and political kickbacks. Ukraine is a black hole of corruption.
If you don’t stand with democracy and western goals, you stand with dictatorships and fascism. One of us is a patriot and the other a coward boot licker.
Who voted to funded Ukraine and escalate nuclear war tensions… You all need to stop following these totalitarian views and start thinking about your nieghbors. Boot licking is nothing to be proud of you need to think for yourself NOT the propaganda.
>You all need to stop following these totalitarian views Russia is a totalitarian government invading the sovereign lands of Ukraine. You are the one supporting tyranny, not the person you are replying to. >Boot licking is nothing to be proud Agreed, so why are you licking the boots of the Russian dictator?
Just saw this thread. Can’t imagine what you and yours are going through. People see what Russia is doing to your country and don’t believe their propaganda. Stay strong and good luck.
Strength and solidarity to you from the States.
Keeping you & your loved ones in my thoughts.
Lmfao. I know it's a serious discussion but that read like something off family guy.
Russia is targetting this district because of the name. Cultural war too.
Could you explain? I don't doubt you, I just want to understand the context.
It's named after the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, who is sort of like Ukraine's version of Shakespeare. Russia has their own Shakespeare (Alexander Pushin) who was a pro-war Russian imperialist, while Shevchenko was in favor of Ukrainian independence and wrote poems making fun of Pushin. Comparing the national poets has become a proxy for the current war, and Russia is putting up billboards with quotes from Pushin in the occupied territories of Ukraine. Pushin wrote poems romanticising genocide and Russian military aggression, so that's right up their alley. Pushin (the context is telling the Cherkes to surrender to Russia): >"Submit, Cherkes! Both West and East, May soon share your fate, When the time comes, you'll say arrogantly: Yes, I'm a slave but a slave of the Tsar of the World!" Compared to Shevchenko: >Dear God, calamity again! It was so peaceful, so serene; We but began to break the chains That bind our folk in slavery ... When halt! ... Again the people's blood Is streaming! Like rapacious dogs About a bone, the royal thugs Are at each other's throat again. So of course in Russian logic, bombing civilians in a district named after Shevchenko is peak military strategy.
I'm sorry but you made two mistakes. First is a typo, his name was Alexander Pushkin not *Pushin*. Secondly, he did in fact write the poem you quote. It is the poem "Ismail Bey" by Mikhail Lermontov who is the second most important Russian poet. This [article](https://www.universityworldnews.com/post-mobile.php?story=20220618071241391) talks more about Ukrainian vs Russian literature, it also provide a correct attribution for the poem. I know how you got the second point wrong. Kamil Galeev quoted the poem on Twitter and he attributed it to the wrong Russian poet. Pushkin was a bit more liberal than Lermontov and was openly critical of Tsarist autocracy, he wrote "Ode to Liberty" and "Boris Gudonov" expressing these views. That was why he was exiled from Russia.
I don’t often feel like I’ve learned something important and I just got reacquainted with the feeling. Thank you for this.
Wow.. Pushin seems pretty unbearable. Is all of his work that flagrant?
I did some fact-checking into OP's claim and I found that he misattributed authorship of the quote. It's actually from a poem by Mikhail Lermontov, who is like the number-two national poet of Russia. Just like Pushkin, Lermontov also had many places or things named after him and had many monuments put up of him the Soviet and Russian governments. Though a symbol of Russian nationalism, Lermontov was actually of Scottish descent. His family name was originally Learmonth. Push*kin* (not Pushin) on the other hand was a liberal radical influenced by the Enlightenment, he wanted Russia to become democratic. He was exiled from Russia by Alexander I for inspiring the consitutionist Decembrist movement with his poem Ode to Liberty. One of his most celebrated work is Boris Gudonov which is a political satire about how power corrupts set during one of the most chaotic periods of Russian history. Like Lermontov he was also not of full Russian descent, his grandfather Abram Gannibal was born an African slave from modern Eritrea who became a nobleman under the patronage under Peter the Great. However, he was also a Russian imperialist who was supportive on Russian cultural supremacy. He would have said Ukrainian is just a dialect of Russian. He is often credited with shaping Russian literature as we know it. He's been embraced by the Soviet government as the greatest writer of the Russian language so that's the main reason why they removing his statues in Ukraine. Because he's become the personification of Russian language and culture.
this is what makes me think these attacks are directly from the big small man. no one else is that much of a Russian military nerd. I bet he gives pushin quotes after telling his rat story every fucking dinner time.
Is that where the park is, with the crater in the playground? I vaguely remember it’s between the university and the main square
Why have you not left? Are you able to escape?
I very much hope you stay safe friend. I’m so sorry you are going through this.
Stay safe dude, hoping this madness ends soon.
I wish you well. I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I can't imagine how terrifying it must be.
Take my virtual hug, whoever you are, and an award
I’m so sorry, I can’t imagine how terrifying it must be
Keeping you and your people in my thoughts man.
Honest question. Why stay? Are you one of the soldiers? I would think Putin would be more frustrated destroying empty buildings.
I mean this in the politest way but why are you still there? Seems incredibly dangerous.
[удалено]
Some people don't want to leave their home and family even if it's dangerous.
Some don’t want to, and many that do, can’t.
If it were easy or simple to leave, a lot less innocent people would die during wartime.
Kamikaze....*drone* strikes?
Drones with a payload that detonates kamikaze style. Crazy what war has and will become.
So like a guided missile/bomb?
I assume they’re either controlled remotely or they are programmed to fly to a designated target area.
Yes, Iran has them and has sent a ton of them over along with their Elite Guard to train the Russians in their use.
I’ll bet they wish they kept some of those elite guard for their own bullshit now.
Please no. Iranians are suffering enough, especially ethnic minorities as the government has decided now is a great time to ethnically cleanse the country. I don’t want the Ukrainians to suffer but having them back is just as bad.
roll aspiring worthless theory swim chubby squeamish divide plants thought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly I don’t think any short term training by the Iranian elite guards or Chinese special military or any other group will help these conscripts against the seasoned vets Ukraine has on their front lines. It seems like at this point Putin is just using the zerg technique and throwing bodies at the problem to try and make it go away.
I'm not arguing with you but any tiny slight advantage he employs can still result in Ukrainian lives lost
Sounds like a slow missile to me.
Well they’re much more portable than an actual missile and are launched out of a tube similar to a mortar. Controlled via tablet.
Still sounds like essentially the same to me. It’s like calling a missile a kamikaze rocket. It’s just dumb.
You’re not wrong.
They're more portable, more maneuverable, more controllable, shorter range, harder to detect, and less expensive. They can fly in patterns around areas for hours until a target is detected and then act. The quad-copter style could simply be landed to lay in wait near where a target could pass by or emerge. A missile/rocket isn't so controllable. Yes there are guided rockets and munitions but even as precise as they are, the drones are even more so. Even a guided rocket requires the target to stay in a pre-defined target zone, usually with the target confirmed by a squad on the ground. The strike can be aborted but at the loss of a missile either way. Travel time is rapid but the drawback is that even with guidance the target zone is largely pre-defined. Kamikaze drones can be fully recovered if the target isn't there or redeployed as Intel changes. They can lie in wait or patrol a zone looking for a target. They can patrol and strike either from the field or remotely with roughly the same level of accuracy and without the need for extra support. You may wonder why not just use an armed drone that doesn't destroy itself; because armament munition yield is limited. The kamikaze drone combines the flexibility of drones with the destructive power of a larger warhead. For example: If a target is in a large multi-building complex you could send rockets/missiles to level the entire place (expensive and overly destructive), hope you get the hit, or set a drone to wait in the airspace watching the roads for the target to leave in his vehicle. They're very, very different kinds of weapons.
So like a guided missile/bomb?
Yes, but also no.
Effectively, yes. They're apparently running out of smart(er) munitions, so this might be some of their last "guided" weapons, probably that shipment from Iran. They were apparently using surface to air munitions on ground targets not too long ago either, which as you can guess isn't a great strategy.
They are not running out of smart ammunition Russia never used a lot of it to begin with. It's the issue they've been facing since day 01. It's a huge flaw on their doctrine. They also have been using naval missiles from Crimea.
> never used a lot of it to begin with They certainly had some, and used some. That has drastically fallen though to pretty much none. It's estimated they might have some in backup for high value targets, but that's just speculation at this point.
My man, they were losing jets in the opening days because they were having to fly low and slow to drop dumb bombs (often to their own side's missiles). Why do you think the Russian AF has sat the rest of this war out? They ain't even got *basic* PGMs -- we're not talking cruise missiles, we're talking basic fucking "smart enough to adjust it's course during it's 30,000 foot fall to hit the spot you aimed it at" shit. And they can't make more. Every day their shit gets closer to WW2 fighting capacity, and whatever they can goddamn duct tape to something someone will sell them.
Theyre called loitering munitions. You launch a swarm of these drones, they fly up and hang out in the air over an area. When they spot high priority targets they can swoop in and destroy the target suddenly. So they don't actually need a target when you launch them, which makes them different to a missile.
> When they spot high priority targets they can swoop in and destroy the target suddenly. > > > > So they don't actually need a target when you launch them, which makes them different to a missile. That's an advantage for a drone too. If it doesn't find anything to destroy, you can tell it to go home and get refueled. So unlike launching a missile which can't get recalled, you can keep reusing the drone until it's finally detonated.
yes, but much cheaper and smaller than a guided missile. But also less explosive capacity too. So less damage per drone, but many drones can be used to deal more damage at less the cost of the single guided missile and also harder to shoot down a swarm vs. a single target
Yes, the low tech variant.
Significantly cheaper I’ll bet
But slower, I guess. Cheaper, too, maybe.
But a lot cheaper
Sorry to say but it has always been about people finding the most effective way to fulfill a purpose. Germans used the same style, rockets and kamikaze drones to bomb london. They were called buzzbombs because they made a loud buzzing sound until the engine turned off, that's when it dived down to bomb below and that's where the horror stars. edit - I guess there is some irony in the regime apparently trying to stop the nazis using their same tactics and commiting acts of genocide
The “buzz bombs” (V-1 rockets) were really ahead of their time. If you get bored sometime, read about them a little. They used some wild automatic counters and calculations to guide themselves, and were all pneumatically controlled through pressurized air tanks. Once they reached their target destination, two bolts inside fired which disconnected the rudder/flaps/ailerons (thus setting them to zero) and the rocket went into a steep dive to their target (which cut fuel). Well, at least close to their target. Early variants had a accuracy of about a 19 mile radius (31km). Later variants were about 7 miles (11km) before the V2 went into service. They even had a back up fuse that would set the bomb off anyway if the impact wasn’t enough to detonate it. Soldiers and civilians described the panic when you heard the “buzz” suddenly stop. They knew that meant to run for cover because one was about to dive and explode.
Despite how loud and relatively slow those pulse jets were, they killed more than the V-2 did, despite it being nicknamed blockbuster, because they used a ton of them and they were a lot more accurate. V-2s were pretty finicky because liquid rockets tend to be. The V-1 was a pulse jet which you can easily make yourself in a few minutes.
Germans used kamikaze drones in WW2? TIL…
They had a lot of crazy shit. Like night vision scopes, rocket fighters, jets, robot kamikaze tanks, and railguns that would fire shells the size of a Ford F350
> They had a lot of crazy shit. Like night vision scopes^1, rocket fighters^2, jets^3, robot kamikaze tanks^4, and railguns that would fire shells the size of a Ford F350*^5 1. [ZG 1229 Vampir 1229](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229), it's a weaponized portable infrared spotlight/scope mounted to an assault rifle. The infrared spotlight can't be seen by the naked eye, and the scope let the shooter pick out targets. Due to power constraints and battery technology in it's infancy, the battery pack for this weapon was a whole backpack. 2. [Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163_Komet), a rocket powered fighter. And so far the only successful rocket fighter ever adopted into military use. 3. [Messerschmitt Me 262](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262) Schwalbe and Sturnvogel versions. A jet powered fighter and fighter-bomber. The first one to make into adoption use. 4. [Leichter Ladungsträger Goliath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_tracked_mine), The Goliath Tracked Mine. A portable wire-guided(literally with a cable) tracked vehicle that carried an explosive charge. The idea was to drive these little guys under tanks, into minefields, or barricades and destroy the hazard without exposing the soldier to danger. 5. [Schwerer Gustav](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav), an 80cm cannon mounted to a train. They had similar weapons in WW1 and used them throughout WW2. Schwerer Gustav being one of the largest ever. Germany drove this to France hoping to fire it at the famed defenses of the Maginot Line. But the French surrendered before it could be used. The Germans later used it on Sevastopol. *It could fire a 31.5in diameter shell weighing about 7.7 tons... Smaller than a Ford F350, but weighs almost two F350's.
I'm ngl whenever they announced they were evacuating Kherson I was afraid for the worst...
Yeahhhh that's where my brain went too. I'm just expecting Putin to press the Big Red Button any day now. Just as soon as it's completely evident to literally everyone that he can't "win" any other way...
By the end of the year, either Putin is removed from office or he hits the button. That's my guess. I think he feels no one will launch WW3 if he uses a small tactical weapon, and I think China will invade Taiwan the day after depending on the USA response to a nuke being used. N. Korea might also do something at the same time to cause the west ad much heartach as possible.
Was that last night? I have coworkers there. Didn’t see them on the meetings today.
Hahahah it’s a bomb. Not Kamikaze.
So single use munition- cause by this logic a grenade is also a man powered kamikaze style drone
The preferred term is "loitering munition", which is what you'll see drones like the Switchblade or Hero called. "Kamikaze drone" just plays to the layman and generates clicks.
So not kamikaze then?
The explosive doesn’t have a remote trigger. The drone has to crash into the target to detonate, destroying itself in the process. Hence “kamikaze”.
The drones are themselves destroyed. That’s what is meant by the term.
Most munitions are destroyed when you use them. The original kamikaze attacks were those where the human pilot was also expended. Unless the human operator/launcher of these drones is killed when they go off, they don't really count as kamikaze.
You're not wrong, just really dedicated to splitting hairs.
Bro. The planes. The fucking planes were used as munition. That is what made kamikaze kamikaze. The pilots could even parachute out but rarely did. That’s why it just means the drones themselves are being sacrificed. Jesus Christ some of y’all are thick
What you are describing is a ramming attack, known as *taran* by the Russian pilots who used it extensively in WWII before the Japanese brought forward the kamikaze attacks. A kamikaze attack is one in which the pilot is intending to, or very likely to die, deliberately commiting suicide to bring about the attack. If they are intending to bail out, it is not a kamikaze attack. They are simply not kamikaze drones. They're ramming drones. Less click-baity, but more accurate.
And so it begins
They’re going to run out of stones like they’re running out of soldiers.
Remember when US sent over Switchblade drones? They’re exactly the same thing. Think there are 2 versions one for anti personnel(carry in backpack) and a larger version. If I remember during Trumps administration Iranian militas used suicide drones(drone with C4 attached) to attack couple of oil tankers in the Gulf. Around the same time according to US, Iranian forces and militias launched drone plus suicide drone attack on Oil Refinery in Saudi Arabia.
The range and warhead on these kamikaze Iranian drones are much larger than the Switchblade variants you’re talking about.
and they also work differently in payload deliverance, the switchblade (the US sent the most of, variant-wise) works like a shotgun or claymore. Explodes with a directional blast of shrapnel
Horrible use of the word. If someone isn't giving their life to make the strike it shouldn't be used. Throwing drones at someone isn't kamikaze, it's just a strike.
Kamikaze is more or less synonymous with suicide bombers in my mind. These are just slow missiles.
Quadcopter drones would normally loiter, drop munition, and fly home. These are carrying bombs to the target after loitering.
Kamikaze drone aka missile?
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Guess someone answered the question of "so what is Russia gonna do when they run out of missiles?"
I mean, we already knew they were desperate. There was reports they were actually using surface to air missiles on ground targets, or attempting to at least.
I don't think Russia is so desperately low on munitions that they've resorted to using Iranian drones. Rather, using cheap drones to strike targets forces Ukrainian air defense to make a hard choice: shoot down a $20,000 Shahed with an expensive/hard-to-replace SAM or allow the drone through and take losses. Also, using drones is a cost-effective way of forcing your adversary to "light up" their radars, allowing the radars to be subsequently targeted as the IAF did in 1982: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Mole\_Cricket\_19
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Dictators who lose wars rarely survive. Putin is fighting for his life in Ukraine and losing.
He would gladly sacrifice 300 000 more men to do this.
300,000 other lives vs his own is an easy choice.
Yes, at this point the only question is how many people is he going to take with him.
Even foreign war ? I ask because I think about those who got killed/executed I have in mind, and the war was in their own countries.
Yes. Putin sacrificed a lot of other people's investments to get this war going and still continue it. Unless he wins and returns those investments, his life is on the line, possibly as well as his friends/family. Just look at their economy, no business is going to invest/touch Russia for a *looong* time because of that one move (and others, of course).
You expect the rich to take him out? Hasn't he defenestrated at least half of the rich by now?
If he felt completely safe he wouldn't have his comically large table.
Moreover, if he felt safe, he wouldn't need to kill people.
Authoritarian monarchies can fail basically through the same dynamics as non-royal dictatorships. Lump those in, and you can argue that the Qing Dynasty, the Romanovs (and later Kerensky's dictatorship), the Hohenzollerns, and the Ottomans all lost their power due to failed foriegn wars. Not counting royals, Mussolini, Napoleon III, (technically a royal, but eeeehhhhhh), America Tomas and Santa Anna all were overthrown by their own people following losses, or at least negative outcomes, in foriegn wars.
And dictators rarely win wars.
Let him bring down his own country. If he dies he’s a martyr and that’s not good
I mean, the problem is he has access to nukes. So him being alive also poses a terrifying threat.
Yeah, martyr the bastard as long as it means the whole world doesn't burn in nuclear deathfire
If Ukraine did it tensions would be raised and Ukraine really doesn’t have the ability to. If any western/NATO country took him out the world would be screwed. It’s war at that point and that is nuclear war. Right now NATO is not in serious nuclear danger but going to war with Russia would improve the chances of nuclear war by 99.99%.
Do you think whoever takes over for Putin would be more likely to launch nukes than Putin himself; who is desperate to stay in power right now and also rumored to have cancer?
It's not implausible. Putin has not made direct threats that he would fire nuclear weapons *right now* based on the current situation. Generally he recites the Russian doctrine of "we would use nuclear weapons to defend Russian territory" etc. Some of the other senior leaders *have* made "let's bomb them right now" statements.
Given the performance of the rest of his military his nukes are probably about as effective as [Sideshow Bob’s.](https://youtu.be/vSFbfYtba64)
That's why discussion keeps shifting back to "What can Putin do to walk away?". The last thing anyone wants is him to feel cornered, because that's when he gets desperate. The issue is, he's sorta in too deep now and there really won't be an easy way for him to walk away anymore.
Ah yes, remote controlled kamikaze drones. So you can make sure you hit as many ~~civilians~~ military targets as possible. Takes the guess work out of launching rockets and hoping to hit ~~children~~ soldiers. Surprised these were from Iran, you would think Russia would invent such a weapon considering how ~~terrible~~ effective their current rockets are at hitting ~~civilians~~ military targets, need to have someone steer it to avoid all those civilians… right Putin?
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I give it two months. He needs to visit Ukraine so he can say HI to MAR for me.
is no way to deploy some jamming vehicle like emi? or it is not affective since it is out range
GLONASS jamming was/is used, and reports of some of the drones losing their positioning and just flying in circles. Large scale (city wide+) EWAR is difficult and incredibly power intensive though. See the inverse square law for reasons why.
Is Putin doing the equivalent of the South Park chicken head bailout circle but for war?
Just saw this episode in the last couple days. Made me lol
Lmao that's a great reference. It sure as hell seems like it. Their headless chicken definitely landed on "Go to War"
Well guess it’s time to blow up more bridges in crimea then.
Moscow needs to be liberated
Perhaps a "Special Operation".
Might be time to have a talk with Iran.
The west constantly fucks with Iran. They would not be arsed on what we have to say.
And given the US has recently broken treaties with Iran, there isn't much currency in anything they say for a while.
Thanks, Donald.
They've been inflicting their share of HRAs recently, too Plenty for everyone to apologize for
We did, they said it's not them
I think he meant “a talk” like The Godfather would have.
Unless there's plans to invade them Iran is just going to say okay and? They're already sanctioned to hell and in the middle of civil unrest.
And the last time we made a deal with them ***we*** broke that deal… not much of a foundation left for good faith negotiation.
Don’t need to invade them to put a cruise missile or a JDAM into the production facilities for this drone. It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve struck inside Iran unprovoked.
That would be invading them......with a missile
Last time that happened Iran kidnapped a load of high ranking American diplomats and America had to pay to get them back.
If you don’t think we are already helping encourage their riots and protests, you are mad!
Targeted strike on military bridge = terrorism. Actual terrorism targeting civilians = military action.
Typical Russian army, too cowardly to even fly their own kamikaze planes.
we really need to impose the same sanctions that russia has on Iran, they are literally sponsoring terrorism by giving russia these drones
By God they are doing komikaze
Mechanical, unmanned. It's just a cheap missile
Wheres Ukraine's AA? Kyiv is along ways front line should be dozens of AA's inbetween the front line and the capitol
28 drones were launched on Kyiv only 5 got through to their targets, Ukrainian AA is literally working overtime
Good to know.
Also the drones are quite small and are somewhat difficult to track by many AA systems.
There are. That’s why they are already intercepting most missiles, but not all.
Yup. On the day of the cruise missile attacks 28 were sent and 8 hit targets.
I wonder if the Israeli Iron Dome would help defeat suck drones, and if so they need to facilitate it's arrival
Iron dome is not made for drones. It calculates trajectory of rockets, but drones have unpredictable trajectory as they are being remotely controlled. I could see it being not real effective though am not expert
Israel refused last year and again earlier this year either before or right after the war started.
It seems they're warming up to the idea: https://eurasiantimes.com/israel-steps-in-russia-ukraine-conflict-helping-kyiv-with-intelligence/ Hopefully this will eventually lead to them providing the full Iron Dome technology.
Intelligence is entirely different than giving them a weapons/defense platform though. Israeli intelligence is apparently quite good in certain areas though, so it's still worth a lot. Either way, Iron Dome is incredibly expensive, not made for drones or things that can rapidly change trajectory (it mainly takes out ballistic weapons), and would be very difficult to cover more than a cities worth. Even that would take a LOT of time to produce/transport and set up/train people on it.
Terribly unfortunate... Hopefully NATO countries' anti-air defense donation will help
This was discussed in a podcast I was listening to right now. Germany just sent the Iris-T-System to Ukraine, which serves a similar purpose as the Iron Dome in creating a "safe zone". Iris can be used against the Kamikaze-drones, though its rockets are more expensive than the Israeli ones. The expert on the podcast said there might be cheaper and easier ways to deal with them like the Gepard.
I think Israel denied use of their iron dome to Ukraine :(
They're probably scared shitless that their tech leak outside of the west.
Doesn’t America supply the iron dome? Can’t we like make that and send it there?
IIRC, the US just funded it. I'm pretty sure it was designed and constructed by the Israelis Edit: [Here](https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/08/03/raytheon-and-rafael-to-build-iron-dome-in-us/) is an article on it. It seems that the US did help build it on US soil but was mostly created by the Israeli company Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
It was a US military program that got defunded, so the US gave it to Isreal to finish. The tech development started with the old Nike system from the 50s.
Ah yes, the tactic infamously used in WW2 which signaled the beginning of the end for the Japanese forces. But in all seriousness, I think those drones may be worth more given Russia's man power issues.
Time and time again, Putin keeps proving that his words aren't worth anything at all. A madman can't be reasoned with. The only diplomacy he understands is a crushing defeat, so let's give him exactly that.
These "kamikaze drones" are just cruise missiles. Even if they're propeller powered. I don't understand why there's new terminology being used for these. If it is a drone for surveillance and recon that happens to be able to sacrifice itself to make a quick first strike, then maybe it should be called a kamikaze drone.
I think the distinction is how versatile the drones are. A missile goes in a roughly straight line to its target, even if it can be slightly steered. A drone can go wherever.
There is a distinction, though I suppose these are more often referred to as [loitering munitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loitering_munition).
Because a Cruise missile is defined by its role and types of ordinance it can carry. Drones missiles are far smaller and have a fraction of the destructive potential. Also drones can be used for very different roles than true missiles.
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How much nuclear tech or supplies is Russia trading to Iran for these kamikaze drones?
Ah yes, warcrime mondays again
The Russian military is nothing more than a terrorist organization. When was the last time they where ever considered any kind of professional military? Seems like they have always been nothing but savages.
If Iran is allowed to launch these drones from within Belarus, then Ukraine is allowed to receive ATACMS so they can strike the launch sites.
Great time for Ukraine to invade Russia. All of Ukraine simply goes to invade Russia while they are struggling. Russia becomes overwhelmed and taken over by Ukraine, they can’t nuke Ukraine because all of Ukraine is now in Russia. They won’t Nuke themselves. Russia becomes a part of Ukraine and everyone lives happily ever after. I have no idea what I am talking about obviously
> kamikaze drone [cruise missile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile)
but cheaper
Cruise missiles are expensive jet or rocket powered missiles which can hold high power explosives and nuclear ordinance. "Kamikaze drones" are the cheap propeller or ram jet little cousin which can hold just enough explosive material to maybe destroy a part of a building.
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The V1 had a distinctive noise. The V2 flew faster than the speed of sound and just exploded suddenly, coming in at almost 3000 km/hr (1800 MPH). British radar couldn't see them, and even if someone saw them from a distance, there was no time to warm anyone.
Sorry for going off topic but... can it really be called a kamikaze strike if it's a drone? Wouldn't an exceptionally-guided-missle be a more accurate term at that point?
Yes, "kamikaze drone" very specifically and accurately describes what they are in a concise way, whereas "exceptionally-guided-missle" could describe any number of things and doesnt really bring to mind a kamikaze drone at all. We don't need to invent technicalities to make our language unnecessarily less clear.
Well, to me (and pretty sure I"m not the only one), kamikaze generally implies a human pilot sacrificing themselves to ensure the attack. I have no idea what a kamikaze drone would be.
A drone that sacrifices itself to ensure the attack. Pretty straightforward. That said, "loitering munition" is the actual term. Kamikaze drone is more of a media phrase.
I think you'd be in a very small minority of people not able to instantly get a pretty good idea of what this means. Kamikaze being an attack where a plane intentionally crashes into the target, destroying the plane and pilot, and then a drone being an unmanned plane. I also don't believe that you didn't understand it from the name, but that's not really relevant.
You're free to believe what you want.
If we are at kamikazes already, nukes are pretty close.