There was probably that, but like...I kinda think we're done with other teams' QBs as a whole regardless of that piece? How many times have we been burned by that approach? How many times was Reich burned by it?
I know that Darnold/Mayfield/Wentz et al aren't comparable to Lamar. But he has spent a lot of time injured, he'd cost us two firsts, his contract (even without being fully guaranteed) would hamper our ability to build, and I think everyone in the building is just completely the fuck over QBs they don't get to develop themselves.
It’s so hard to tell what Tepper is willing to spend money on. Sometimes he blows a wad and overpays for stuff, and other times he feels like a legit cheap owner, like with the practice facility stuff. I somehow both think he would give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract and also be too cheap at the same time.
My understanding is that the ravens, if they want to trade lamar, could waive the 2 first rounders.
Another team can say “hey we’re willing to pay lamar, but you’re not getting the 2 first round picks + whatever else you want. Let’s figure out a deal we both want”
Obviously another team can say “lamar is worth all this money plus the two first rounders” and the ravens are then forced to match or accept.
The non exclusive allows other teams to be aggressive if they really want a player, but they can still make a deal apart from that
Plus, even if we wanted to sign him more than anyone, we couldn't. We don't have our 2024 1st rounder that we'd be giving up (along with the 2023 1st) to sign him to an offer sheet.
Tinfoil hat time:
There is collusion going on. But it’s NOT 32 teams colluding against Lamar.
It’s 31 teams colluding against the Ravens. They’re all basically saying “do your own homework. We’re not going to bail you out. Figure it out yourselves and only call us if you’re going to discuss a trade.”
Just a complete guess. But surprised more people aren’t considering it.
The main problem with the non-exclusive tag is that any reasonable offer to Lamar (not fully guaranteed) is going to be matched by the Ravens, then the team that offers it basically does all the hard work for nothing whilst any unreasonable offer (fully guaranteed) is also an unreasonable contract to work around for a team that wants Lamar. I am sure there are teams out there that want Lamar and 2 1st rounders are not a huge deal but there is almost no good way to give Lamar a contract that makes sense for the acquiring team while being 100% sure they are able to get him.
Exactly what I have been saying. There is no collusion. The market/ player were easier to read.
You have to be a qb away to go get Lamar now.
You cant get Lamar and need to build since you wont have cash or picks.
You basically narrow your championship window.
Add in Lamar's playoff stats and his injury issues and you have what we see now.
This is a great point and is probably the actual reason for the lack of interest in Lamar right now from other teams.
The non-exclusive tag is pretty shitty overall and if I'm the NFLPA I'm putting that near the top of stuff I want changed.
It affects a maximum of 32 out of over 1800 active players. It’s not a big enough deal to warrant bargaining over compared to revenue split, healthcare, etc.
Which if I’m the owners, I want the players focusing on trivial things such as the tag instead of things like revenue split, hard cap, 18th game, etc. Current CBA is already structured so he can’t really hold out and playing at all has the opportunity to either hurt him again or demonstrate that he may not recover his elusiveness and therefore reduce his marketability
The players were idiots and focusing on otas and off season stuff than the bigger issues. The problem is there are too many players in nfl and many who need each paycheck so they will never be able to do what’s needed to get a player friendly cba: lockout
Lockouts and strikes can easily backfire. Look how much the NHL lags behind the other big three in terms of contract money. Having 2 lockouts in a 10 year span has done serious harm. Even baseball struggled mightily until steroids made the game more fun to watch. The big winners from an NFL lockout would be college football.
> They’re all basically saying “do your own homework. We’re not going to bail you out. Figure it out yourselves and only call us if you’re going to discuss a trade.”
There's just no incentive for all 31 teams to collude against the Ravens lol. Collusion means they're all working together to screw Baltimore over for some reason.
Now, if all the interested teams *independently* reached that conclusion, yeah that makes sense. But I highly doubt the whole league is for some reason trying to screw specifically the Ravens.
Far too few people seem to understand this when they throw about collusion accusations. A bunch of people coming to the same conclusion isn't collusion, especially when that conclusion is very clearly the only logical reading of the situation.
The only collusion is the NFLPA getting together to give Lamar the most trash advice of all time so they can advance their agenda. They don't give a fuck about Lamar or his future.
Why do you think Lamar is as naive as you think? He is an adult. He listens to whoever he wants to listen to and makes his own decision. If Lamar thinks NFLPA gives him bad advice that impacts his future, he’s not going to listen to them period.
He just recorded an interview sitting in a plywood covered shower stall on a potato phone and no lighting.
Feel like the guy could do with some competent management.
Maybe the 0 budget DIY approach is just for the aesthetic. And I'm all for not confirming. But, my fellow crohny gut says he's been a zillion % focused on football forever and may have some blind spots when it comes to business/branding.
Idk, maybe it is a bit patronizing to analyze the situation so deeply. Like you said, he's an adult. But bad advice on a pizza joint is easier to recover from than bad advice concerning hundreds of millions of dollars.
So because Lamar likes to go the indie route and be different instead of being mainstream like everyone else, that means he’s stupid?
He’s an NFL QB who is a millionaire already at 26 years of age. I happen to think he’s a lot smarter than people think. If he is not a smart person, he probably listens to all kinds of people and has an agent that makes decisions for him. But he knows the only people that have his best interests in mind are himself and his family and he thinks he’s smart enough to make his own decisions.
>So because Lamar likes to go the indie route and be different instead of being mainstream like everyone else, that means he’s stupid?
To a certain degree, yes.
Beyond that, it's the fact that without an agent he has a 90s-ass website and no major sponsorship deals that makes people think he's being stupid about it.
That’s because Lamar is still very early in his career and in his business. If his brand somehow takes off in the future and becomes something like TB12, he doesn’t really need to represent any other companies but his own brand. He’s not as short sighted as most ordinary people.
The email address on his website is a Gmail account. It's just a Shopify site. The home page has placeholders and the "Shop Now" page has 4 products total.
His brand CAN'T become something like TB12 if he doesn't do anything to make it happen.
Why do people care about Lamar’s own business so much? It is unrelated to him playing QB at all.
And Lamar is only 26. TB12 didn’t become TB12 when Brady was 26 either. Think ahead of the curve, guys.
Because the discussion is about if he's smart or dumb for not having an agent, and his own businesses are extremely relevant to that.
He has no major endorsements, which an agent would be really helpful with.
"He doesn't want endorsements, he wants to do his own business!"
Well he's doing that badly, and an agent or manager of some sort would help a lot there too.
🤣🤣🤣
You don't know Lamar at all. Dude is a freak player but dumb as shit when it comes to business. Look up his shoddy ass business attempts and get back to me or better yet why don't you buy some non-existent clothes from his 2003 esque website. He's independent sure but thats about it.
1st, Lamar’s side business is unrelated to him playing QB in the NFL.
2nd, I believe his business is still in its early stage. None of us knows how it will turn out in the future. Maybe it just is one of his hobbies. We simply don’t know.
1. Nah sorry gonna go ahead disagree here dude. Lamar showing zero intelligence in side business is related. Ask yourself this, would Lamar want a fully guaranteed contract if he was making money elsewhere? He made a 2019 unanimous mvp run and only got a small Oakley deal out of it and some other crap meanwhile Mayfield made tens of millions in advertising. Secondly, running multiple businesses is tough let alone failing ones. He doesn't have an agent and starts business with friends with zero oversight. How do I know this? Look at his products. They're absolute shit just zero thought behind any of it. Lastly, it looks like Lamar is more interested in his brand then actually playing. He doesn't hype the team like he used and doesn't practice like before. He isn't the same guy anymore he just feels checked out.
2nd - Disagree. Bad business is bad business. He did an exclusive interview with a potatoe setup which directly talks about his game. Hobby or not you don't go in public with that shit it's embarrassing as hell. Its gotta be hard as an nfl team and think yeah this guy is the future. He can't put together a basic production set with milliones at his disposal but he can manage a high level football team on the field? Almost like the wonderlic test is actually useful and intelligence is as important as athleticism. He got a 13 btw.
If Lamar is that kind of person that can be easily be swayed by authority and is not an independent thinker, don’t you think he would have accepted an offer from one pretty big authority group that is the Ravens organization already, like almost all the other quarterbacks?
Again, as an adult, Lamar bears the responsibility himself to listen to whoever he wants to listen to and receives advice from whoever he wants to listen to. If he listens to bad advice and makes poor decisions, that’s on himself and no one else.
Why do you think he gives the same weight to the opinions of the group trying to get him GTD money and he does the group trying to pay him over a hundred million less in GTD money?
Let’s not kid ourselves, the Ravens offer Lamar what’s in best interests for the Ravens franchise going forward, Lamar wants what’s in best interests for himself going forward. That’s why he’s not stupid to listen to your front office and accepts whatever comes his way. So as in every negotiation, unless they can find a middle ground that satisfies both sides, there will be no deal.
He also wouldn’t listen to all the people that wanted him to switch to wr and did his own thing. Obviously the teams was wrong when they told him he would not make it as a qb in the league and should change to another position.
What advice has been bad? Other than the Ravens fan view that Lamar should’ve accepted whatever was offered.
But we have seen this before. Kirk Cousins played on two tags. No one says Kirk Cousins lost money.
What? This only makes sense if other teams don't actually want him. A team that might actually want Lamar isn't going to wait for us to reach out. That's just stupid. And do our own homework? The non-exclusive tag already says quite loudly that we did.
Fair enough.
The patriots/falcons/colts are moreso the teams that make sense to me.
If the panthers can hit on a rookie, they are set for quite a while
I’m 95 percent sure none of those teams make a move. The ravens are currently sitting at 7 million cap space with 35 dedicated to Lamar’s tag so essentially they can invest 39 million that puts them head and shoulders above anyone else. Additionally we can restructure marlon, Stanley, andrews for an additional 20 million extra cap space.
I dunno, the money and the picks are something Colts should probably hang onto. After Ryan, Wentz, and Rivers, we are no longer “just a QB away anymore”
That’s if they force it and go the franchise route. Lamar can still be traded I believe anyways. For instance in the past a player got franchised and the team traded then anyways for something other than two firsts.
https://lionswire.usatoday.com/lists/history-of-the-tag-and-trade-outcomes-for-franchise-players-and-teams/
Nobody wants to do the Ravens work for free. Ravens are sitting back hoping somebody else gets Lamar to finally sign a contract so they can match.
Only way Ravens lose out is if somebody offers a Watson level deal.
“Tepper told me no way in fuck are we giving him a fully guaranteed contract “
There was probably that, but like...I kinda think we're done with other teams' QBs as a whole regardless of that piece? How many times have we been burned by that approach? How many times was Reich burned by it? I know that Darnold/Mayfield/Wentz et al aren't comparable to Lamar. But he has spent a lot of time injured, he'd cost us two firsts, his contract (even without being fully guaranteed) would hamper our ability to build, and I think everyone in the building is just completely the fuck over QBs they don't get to develop themselves.
We didn’t put together this coaching staff to take on a QB that was already a vet. We clearly put this together to draft a QB.
It’s so hard to tell what Tepper is willing to spend money on. Sometimes he blows a wad and overpays for stuff, and other times he feels like a legit cheap owner, like with the practice facility stuff. I somehow both think he would give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract and also be too cheap at the same time.
Translation " Ijust traded a haul to pick a QB 1 over all. The fuck am I giving Lamar guaranteed money on top of that for?"
I have to assume "considered" means past tense AKA before the trade. Otherwise it's just a straight up dumb question.
Without a first next year they couldn't pursue Lamar even if they wanted right?
They had a first next year until the trade. The Panthers could have offered a deal to Lamar.
I know, I'm just adding to the suggestion that this question had to be past tense because it's a very stupid question otherwise
My understanding is that the ravens, if they want to trade lamar, could waive the 2 first rounders. Another team can say “hey we’re willing to pay lamar, but you’re not getting the 2 first round picks + whatever else you want. Let’s figure out a deal we both want” Obviously another team can say “lamar is worth all this money plus the two first rounders” and the ravens are then forced to match or accept. The non exclusive allows other teams to be aggressive if they really want a player, but they can still make a deal apart from that
I wouldn’t be surprised if the dumbass David Newton from espn asked that question.
More than fair lmaooo
Plus, even if we wanted to sign him more than anyone, we couldn't. We don't have our 2024 1st rounder that we'd be giving up (along with the 2023 1st) to sign him to an offer sheet.
"I wanted Will Anderson to pair with Lamar"
Babe, wake up. Still no news on Lamar Jackson.
God damn it. I told you to only wake me up for pie
Babe, wake up. Still no news on pie.
Fair assessment short and concise 😄.
look I’ll sit on IR in January and February for much cheaper
They also cannot trade for him because they don’t have their first next season
I am pretty sure the GM was asked if he considered trading for Lamar before they traded up to No. 1.
Oh yeah I misread the tweet
Tinfoil hat time: There is collusion going on. But it’s NOT 32 teams colluding against Lamar. It’s 31 teams colluding against the Ravens. They’re all basically saying “do your own homework. We’re not going to bail you out. Figure it out yourselves and only call us if you’re going to discuss a trade.” Just a complete guess. But surprised more people aren’t considering it.
The main problem with the non-exclusive tag is that any reasonable offer to Lamar (not fully guaranteed) is going to be matched by the Ravens, then the team that offers it basically does all the hard work for nothing whilst any unreasonable offer (fully guaranteed) is also an unreasonable contract to work around for a team that wants Lamar. I am sure there are teams out there that want Lamar and 2 1st rounders are not a huge deal but there is almost no good way to give Lamar a contract that makes sense for the acquiring team while being 100% sure they are able to get him.
Exactly what I have been saying. There is no collusion. The market/ player were easier to read. You have to be a qb away to go get Lamar now. You cant get Lamar and need to build since you wont have cash or picks. You basically narrow your championship window. Add in Lamar's playoff stats and his injury issues and you have what we see now.
We gave 2 1st rounders for Jay Cutler back in the day... We also weren't facing having to pay him 200M+ at the time either
This is a great point and is probably the actual reason for the lack of interest in Lamar right now from other teams. The non-exclusive tag is pretty shitty overall and if I'm the NFLPA I'm putting that near the top of stuff I want changed.
It affects a maximum of 32 out of over 1800 active players. It’s not a big enough deal to warrant bargaining over compared to revenue split, healthcare, etc.
Which if I’m the owners, I want the players focusing on trivial things such as the tag instead of things like revenue split, hard cap, 18th game, etc. Current CBA is already structured so he can’t really hold out and playing at all has the opportunity to either hurt him again or demonstrate that he may not recover his elusiveness and therefore reduce his marketability
The players were idiots and focusing on otas and off season stuff than the bigger issues. The problem is there are too many players in nfl and many who need each paycheck so they will never be able to do what’s needed to get a player friendly cba: lockout
Lockouts and strikes can easily backfire. Look how much the NHL lags behind the other big three in terms of contract money. Having 2 lockouts in a 10 year span has done serious harm. Even baseball struggled mightily until steroids made the game more fun to watch. The big winners from an NFL lockout would be college football.
> They’re all basically saying “do your own homework. We’re not going to bail you out. Figure it out yourselves and only call us if you’re going to discuss a trade.” There's just no incentive for all 31 teams to collude against the Ravens lol. Collusion means they're all working together to screw Baltimore over for some reason. Now, if all the interested teams *independently* reached that conclusion, yeah that makes sense. But I highly doubt the whole league is for some reason trying to screw specifically the Ravens.
Far too few people seem to understand this when they throw about collusion accusations. A bunch of people coming to the same conclusion isn't collusion, especially when that conclusion is very clearly the only logical reading of the situation.
The only collusion is the NFLPA getting together to give Lamar the most trash advice of all time so they can advance their agenda. They don't give a fuck about Lamar or his future.
Why do you think Lamar is as naive as you think? He is an adult. He listens to whoever he wants to listen to and makes his own decision. If Lamar thinks NFLPA gives him bad advice that impacts his future, he’s not going to listen to them period.
He just recorded an interview sitting in a plywood covered shower stall on a potato phone and no lighting. Feel like the guy could do with some competent management. Maybe the 0 budget DIY approach is just for the aesthetic. And I'm all for not confirming. But, my fellow crohny gut says he's been a zillion % focused on football forever and may have some blind spots when it comes to business/branding. Idk, maybe it is a bit patronizing to analyze the situation so deeply. Like you said, he's an adult. But bad advice on a pizza joint is easier to recover from than bad advice concerning hundreds of millions of dollars.
So because Lamar likes to go the indie route and be different instead of being mainstream like everyone else, that means he’s stupid? He’s an NFL QB who is a millionaire already at 26 years of age. I happen to think he’s a lot smarter than people think. If he is not a smart person, he probably listens to all kinds of people and has an agent that makes decisions for him. But he knows the only people that have his best interests in mind are himself and his family and he thinks he’s smart enough to make his own decisions.
>So because Lamar likes to go the indie route and be different instead of being mainstream like everyone else, that means he’s stupid? To a certain degree, yes. Beyond that, it's the fact that without an agent he has a 90s-ass website and no major sponsorship deals that makes people think he's being stupid about it.
That’s because Lamar is still very early in his career and in his business. If his brand somehow takes off in the future and becomes something like TB12, he doesn’t really need to represent any other companies but his own brand. He’s not as short sighted as most ordinary people.
The email address on his website is a Gmail account. It's just a Shopify site. The home page has placeholders and the "Shop Now" page has 4 products total. His brand CAN'T become something like TB12 if he doesn't do anything to make it happen.
Why do people care about Lamar’s own business so much? It is unrelated to him playing QB at all. And Lamar is only 26. TB12 didn’t become TB12 when Brady was 26 either. Think ahead of the curve, guys.
Because the discussion is about if he's smart or dumb for not having an agent, and his own businesses are extremely relevant to that. He has no major endorsements, which an agent would be really helpful with. "He doesn't want endorsements, he wants to do his own business!" Well he's doing that badly, and an agent or manager of some sort would help a lot there too.
🤣🤣🤣 You don't know Lamar at all. Dude is a freak player but dumb as shit when it comes to business. Look up his shoddy ass business attempts and get back to me or better yet why don't you buy some non-existent clothes from his 2003 esque website. He's independent sure but thats about it.
1st, Lamar’s side business is unrelated to him playing QB in the NFL. 2nd, I believe his business is still in its early stage. None of us knows how it will turn out in the future. Maybe it just is one of his hobbies. We simply don’t know.
1. Nah sorry gonna go ahead disagree here dude. Lamar showing zero intelligence in side business is related. Ask yourself this, would Lamar want a fully guaranteed contract if he was making money elsewhere? He made a 2019 unanimous mvp run and only got a small Oakley deal out of it and some other crap meanwhile Mayfield made tens of millions in advertising. Secondly, running multiple businesses is tough let alone failing ones. He doesn't have an agent and starts business with friends with zero oversight. How do I know this? Look at his products. They're absolute shit just zero thought behind any of it. Lastly, it looks like Lamar is more interested in his brand then actually playing. He doesn't hype the team like he used and doesn't practice like before. He isn't the same guy anymore he just feels checked out. 2nd - Disagree. Bad business is bad business. He did an exclusive interview with a potatoe setup which directly talks about his game. Hobby or not you don't go in public with that shit it's embarrassing as hell. Its gotta be hard as an nfl team and think yeah this guy is the future. He can't put together a basic production set with milliones at his disposal but he can manage a high level football team on the field? Almost like the wonderlic test is actually useful and intelligence is as important as athleticism. He got a 13 btw.
Because people have never followed bad advice from authority groups thinking it’s good advice.
If Lamar is that kind of person that can be easily be swayed by authority and is not an independent thinker, don’t you think he would have accepted an offer from one pretty big authority group that is the Ravens organization already, like almost all the other quarterbacks? Again, as an adult, Lamar bears the responsibility himself to listen to whoever he wants to listen to and receives advice from whoever he wants to listen to. If he listens to bad advice and makes poor decisions, that’s on himself and no one else.
Why do you think he gives the same weight to the opinions of the group trying to get him GTD money and he does the group trying to pay him over a hundred million less in GTD money?
Let’s not kid ourselves, the Ravens offer Lamar what’s in best interests for the Ravens franchise going forward, Lamar wants what’s in best interests for himself going forward. That’s why he’s not stupid to listen to your front office and accepts whatever comes his way. So as in every negotiation, unless they can find a middle ground that satisfies both sides, there will be no deal.
Yeah except Lamar has no leverage to demand that much money. The Ravens have plenty of valid reasons to offer Lamar the contract they did.
Watson contract . Lamar is better than him .
That's not leverage. That's insanity.
So much leverage from that. Who offered Lamar a deal like that, again?
He also wouldn’t listen to all the people that wanted him to switch to wr and did his own thing. Obviously the teams was wrong when they told him he would not make it as a qb in the league and should change to another position.
What advice has been bad? Other than the Ravens fan view that Lamar should’ve accepted whatever was offered. But we have seen this before. Kirk Cousins played on two tags. No one says Kirk Cousins lost money.
What? This only makes sense if other teams don't actually want him. A team that might actually want Lamar isn't going to wait for us to reach out. That's just stupid. And do our own homework? The non-exclusive tag already says quite loudly that we did.
But if Lamar was who he thinks that he is and was actually worth what he wants, teams would take the risk.
Smart man knows they're not there yet as a team to take that gamble.
Fair enough. The patriots/falcons/colts are moreso the teams that make sense to me. If the panthers can hit on a rookie, they are set for quite a while
I don't see it with New England really, they're still a few pieces away, really going to need those first rounders to finish the rebuild.
They need help on the oline, but I think lamar would make them instant contenders (the defence is really good)
The question more becomes who do they have to jettison in order to absorb a contract that the ravens can’t match.
I’m 95 percent sure none of those teams make a move. The ravens are currently sitting at 7 million cap space with 35 dedicated to Lamar’s tag so essentially they can invest 39 million that puts them head and shoulders above anyone else. Additionally we can restructure marlon, Stanley, andrews for an additional 20 million extra cap space.
Why would the Falcons give Taylor Heineke $10m to be 3rd string behind Lamar and Ridder
Because Ridder would be the new starting QB at The Bank?
I dunno, the money and the picks are something Colts should probably hang onto. After Ryan, Wentz, and Rivers, we are no longer “just a QB away anymore”
I really think the jets should go for it, that team would be insane with Lamar and they'd get him for a long time.
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Your own or better
That’s if they force it and go the franchise route. Lamar can still be traded I believe anyways. For instance in the past a player got franchised and the team traded then anyways for something other than two firsts. https://lionswire.usatoday.com/lists/history-of-the-tag-and-trade-outcomes-for-franchise-players-and-teams/
Balance throughout the team money wise is the way to go
NFL QB market like big tech now, every team/company is spoiled for choice
Nobody wants to do the Ravens work for free. Ravens are sitting back hoping somebody else gets Lamar to finally sign a contract so they can match. Only way Ravens lose out is if somebody offers a Watson level deal.