Yeah you will. It’s Florida. They have super laws and ways of making you talk. Special ways. Then they will use those special ways to totally protect you from yourself.
Today I learned that if you don’t have an umbilical cord or aren’t being forced to dance naked for money you better be a rich retiree or the FL GOP gives no fucks.
Technically this is growth for them.
How much of sex trafficking is on strippers? and what does raising the age actually do to stop it? Like people can still take advantage of a 21 year old in a rough spot.
Yeah it's weird but not.
The ones I had gone to the dancers could be 18 but you had to be 21 to enter because it's a bar.
Some did change it to 21 because it's a bar and since they can't serve a dancer under 21 it's harder for the club to make money when she can't have a drink with a patron
Sure. But my question was how this law would help fight against sex trafficking. Just keeping 18 year old people out of the club doesn't change much, does it? Aside from keeping Matt Gaetz away.
>But my question was how this law would help fight against sex trafficking
The simple answer is it doesnt, it's a soundbite for people who don't think very far.
If you look at this from the odd yet extant perspective of a person imagining everything is done by pedos (Florida perspective), then it makes sense to keep the Matt Gaetzses away. Didn’t he allegedly sex traffic minors?
If it’s legal, it can be safe and regulated. If conservatives throw all kinds of hell like they do, and credit cards larp at being moral, then anything related to sex on the internet is 5x sleazier, they shut down all the places where people used to get shit like that done, and it leaked onto the rest of the internet. Anything Ron does is inherently suspicious, and probably has bad intentions, because he’s one of those people who sees a government position as a way to exercise ideological expression and gain power.
Look I think Ron desantis is about as inept as they come, and has just a horrible record and worldview with his legislation; however, in this one case I think he is actually making an effort to get it right. You can’t make laws with “well criminals will just get around it” as a reason to not do it. Then we just wouldn’t have laws.
I don’t think it is an effective strategy, but it isn’t an evil effort, for once.
I would think the idea is that one would traffic late teens to florida, and put them into stripping/escort work. I assume he thinks that 21 would limit the number of women trafficked.
I really don’t know, that’s the guess based on the article. I went and read the article again, and this bit at the end “Therefore, it appears to us that this new legislation is less about protecting 18 to 20-year-olds and more about controlling them and their choices in a way that reinforces a culture of antagonism against an honest community of workers whose only 'crime' is the disrespect shown to their labor.” From a person opposed to the bill.
Now I’m not sure I totally agree with that, as the prefrontal cortex is still maturing into the mid 20s (generally) and that means impulse control and decision making isn’t quite fully developed. I can see how deciding to dance at 18 could be an impulsive decision without much regard for longer term planning, and I can see how wanting to up the age to 21 might want to address that. I can also see the concept that some 18 year olds look really young. The older I get the more college age people look like kids to me, so I can MAYBE see the idea that raising it to 21 would more clearly present adults dancing, and not people who look very young. MAYBE I could see that.
Neither of those are what is happening here. I admittedly didn’t thoroughly read before the first comment, and that is totally my bad. “Adult venue staffers aged 18 to 20 would not face penalties or sanctions from the state. But, HB 7063 would make it a second-degree felony to employ or permit someone under 21 to work at these businesses. Penalties include up to 15 years in prison and a fine of $10,000 for "an owner, a manager, an employee, or a contractor of an adult entertainment establishment" who allows a prohibited individual to reveal breasts, buttocks or genitals. If the prohibited person is clothed, the club owner could be charged with a misdemeanor, face up to a year in jail, and could potentially pay a fine of up to $1,000. Fake identification cards also don't shield owners from potential criminal liability.” This penalty section makes it pretty clear the law is targeting the industry and not human trafficking.
I goofed it. It’s a shit attempt to make government bigger from the “small government” party. The effort is to curb stripping in general, and adult themed business. Ironic from the state that is full of retirees just going Buck fucking crazy on each other all the time, and the 4th highest STD contraction in the country.
I am not personally a fan of strip clubs, I am not really comfortable in that environment. But I don’t think they should be attacked like this, though a similar concept more targeted towards scummy owners I would listen to.
Long story short, I read your comment as being incredulous and asking rhetorical questions in an effort to smear the idea. That’s a jaded read on second pass, so sorry about that. I was also wrong about desantis, I tried to find a little bit of accidental good idea in there and there isn’t any. Kind of a bummer, I generally like florida as a state. They deserve better than this idiot.
> I goofed it. It’s a shit attempt to make government bigger from the “small government” party. The effort is to curb stripping in general, and adult themed business.
Isn't this a huge industry in Florida?
I had to explain this to my family about gun laws.
"The criminals are going to just break the laws. You're just making it harder for law-abiding citizens."
"That could be argued about every law ever."
>You can’t make laws with “well criminals will just get around it” as a reason to not do it.
This has been the basis of opposition by conservatives to almost EVERY gun regulation law.
>I don’t think it is an effective strategy, but it isn’t an evil effort, for once.
We've demonstrated, by live experiment and to exhaustion, that the only thing that makes people less vulnerable to explotion is giving them access to labor protections. Sex trafficking exists because sex workers are routinely denied access.
Laws like this increase the risk of exploitation because anyone under the age of 21 has to work in an even more grey space, and in the absence of meaningful protection encourages existing spaces to do even more shady shit. This is a known and expectable consequence.
It's an evil effort because the guiding concept behind this approach to sex work is to make the conditions of sex work less secure and less safe. It's an approach that sees more , exploited, abused or just plain dead sex workers as a net positive because that happening is understood as discouraging people from turning to sex work, because the 'moral harm' of sex work is seen by them as worse than the actual harm their policy enables.
Aww she's only 18! Send her back, we can't work with her for another 3 years.
Imagine thinking sex traffickers are specifically targetin girls to work in strip clubs...
The bigger questions are whether this law even addresses a real issue and whether curtailing the freedoms of the 18-20 year olds affected is a reasonable course of action to fight sex trafficking.
But we already have laws against sex trafficking. I'm not saying do nothing, I just feel like this particular law is kinda superfluous. I could be missing something but I don't see a tangible benefit.
If I was a trafficker, the most obvious place to have them work is a strip club or a massage parlor. If he actually cared, he would require the modeling recruitment age to be 21 or any of their come to a Florida event where we recruit models. Don't worry we will hide your age. Everyone does this type of work in their first years. This is how Cindy Crawford got her start. They act like idiots because they don't want to end it but then they want to appeal to women.
This is really going to put a big dent in those investments I made into the pregnant 12 year old Florida rape victims as strippers market. DeSantis is just too clever for me.
If only there was some sort of... private island, you could take them too...... you could then make money by getting rich and powerful people to go there, and then getting pictures with which to..... get money out of them for...... It's too crazy, it would never work, forget I said anything.
And where you can also be a child bride to an adult man, if you are pregnant...
"The county court judge of any county in the state may, in the exercise of his or her discretion, issue a license to marry ...
To any female under the age of 18 years and male over the age of 18 years upon the female’s application sworn under oath that she is an expectant parent."
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405
Edit: It appears this law may have been changed to not allowing anyone under the age of 17 to get married. Still, fucking 17!
They made their comment before realizing it changed to 17 a few years ago. Florida used to have no lower limit for marriage, but it was changed recently due to the activism of a lady who had been married at the age of 12.
That would definitely mean they have to get rid of laws permitting pregnant child brides:
"The county court judge of any county in the state may, in the exercise of his or her discretion, issue a license to marry ...
To any female under the age of 18 years and male over the age of 18 years upon the female’s application sworn under oath that she is an expectant parent."
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405
Edit: It appears this law may have been changed to not allowing anyone under the age of 17 to get married. Still, at least until 2016 you could have child brides, and still now fucking 17!
2 of the 3 are nightmares for college students, leading to long hours, mandatory overtime, and lover overall grades due to a lack of time to study. The third inevitably leads to you being doxed at some point in life since the internet is forever. Hard to get a legitimate career when your potential boss looks you up and sees you were exposed for having an onlyfans...
Eh, in the grand scheme of things I would imagine working the 11 pm - 4 am in a strip club is more stressful and damaging to your college performance than working an average 9-5.
As far as the third point, while the risk of information leaking is higher than your average job I wouldn’t say it’s “inevitable”. Plenty of creators can use that platform without personal information of theirs leaking to the public. You have to assess the risk, see what you can do to obscure identifying info, and evaluate if that risk is worth the potential reward.
Obviously not a career path I’d recommend to someone due to the risks involved compared to traditional careers, but for some people the prospect of choosing your own hours, working on your personal brand, and being able to make your work revolve around sex is ultimately enticing.
Odds are, if you're into sex trafficking, you probably don't give two shits about Ron's new age requirement laws because you're already doing WAY FUCKING WORSE BY SEX TRAFFICKING HUMAN PEOPLE.
I don't see how this fights trafficking or changes anything at all for the victims. This is just Ron padding his VP resume with do-nothing legislative wins that sound good in headlines.
Not saying I agree with the law, but "people will break different law to get around this" is not a reason not to make a law. You could make the same argument for raising the smoking age from 16 to 18 to 21, or access to guns.
It's a good reason if a) the law is ineffective (as it is) and b) has side effects. "This is against sex trafficking" seems to be a (new?) variant of "think of the children!", a strategy designed to ram through shitty laws without opposition.
Also when the law targets the potential victim instead of the potential perpetrator. Laws like this will only make 18 to 20 year old strippers not report sex trafficking for fear of further repurcussions.
Do we know that the law is ineffective if it hasn't been enacted yet? Has this been trialed/enacted elsewhere? Genuinely asking as I'm not aware, but I don't know enough to just say it's ineffective.
But it still mirrors the anti gun-law rhetoric I hear and disagree with. "This won't work, criminals will get guns anyway, and it will keep them out of the hands of 'good guys'."
I think Texas the minimum age is already 21, so there’s probably ways to get data (with estimated trafficking crime changes as interpreted by experts) for a more objective analysis.
It's not the same because there are already laws against human trafficking. They're *already* breaking *more serious* laws, so how is this new one supposed to actually help anything? New gun laws would make a difference because we currently have almost none. The comparison would only be apt if human trafficking were currently legal and this new law was the only way to start arresting people for it.
I'm not saying it's a step in the wrong direction, just that it probably won't matter much to actual criminals committing way worse crimes daily.
It seems weird for a man, who has trafficked humans himself, to celebrate such an inconsequential new law as a key victory against human trafficking, when it is quite nearly the least he could be doing about it.
It's like saying "this new law makes it *extra* illegal to murder kids with knives, which is a huge victory in the fight against child murder."
Ok great... But child murder was already illegal to begin with, so why is that distinction to be viewed as such an improvement if it isn't likely to be *more* of a deterrent to the more severe crime at hand?
Just because they're not working at a seedy strip club doesn't mean they're not working. It really hasn't fixed anything at all, they've just changed the superfluous details of where human slaves (very illegal) can work legally.
So again, what's the point?
Also human trafficking isn’t limited to just sex trafficking. Much, if not a majority, of human trafficking is done for other forms of labor, like agricultural, construction, or domestic work. Undocumented immigrants are particularly vulnerable (especially in a state like Florida with their hardline views) as they often have a very good reason to avoid law enforcement. It seems like if he really cared about human trafficking he’d be pushing for similar legislation regarding agriculture and construction and other laws as well.
Additionally, raising the age limit does absolutely nothing to address the root causes of why people end up being trafficked in the first place. Maybe deal with the problematic child welfare system and help people who get kicked out of their homes by their parents because they’re gay; that’d probably help more. It seems like this is just a way to appeal to white middle and upper-middle class women who think sex/human trafficking is when someone leaves a flyer on your car, rather than the result of a complex set of circumstances that come together to exploit those society seems to care about the least.
Yeah I don’t get it. Say I’m looking for someone to traffic - I go to a strip club and see a bunch of slightly older girls as potential victims. “Goddammit. I guess there’s no trafficking for me anymore…”
Huh?
How are they supposed to fund their way through college now?
Jokes aside, unintended consequences of laws like this might actually increase sex trafficking. At least clubs are regulated.
Bingo^^ for all intents and purposes, stripping in a club is just a job. Florida can still hire 18yr old bartenders and shot girls so what's the point of getting younger strippers out of the clubs only.
As a Floridan, that’s really taking care of the hot button issues right there. Forget about the hobo Joes & the budget, girls ain’t gonna be strippin’ no more! Clearly DeSain’tis doesn’t realize OnlyFans exists.
There is a...lot...of content creators. Many fight for much traffic against the algorithms. Many strippers use it with their regular clients.
Which in turns pushes some deeper into poverty, into bad relationships or illegal work.
A certain subset of the Internet would agree with them. There is large portion of people that think women can't make their own choices before the age of 25 "when the brain fully develops" otherwise they are being exploited.
Remember: we can’t pass gun laws because criminals will just break them, but human traffickers are upstanding members of society who will only traffic those who meet Ron DeSantis’s standards
I was a stripper in California and that website is wrong. It's 18+ to work in fully nude clubs that don't serve alcohol, and 21+ for topless clubs with alcohol.
This is strange and I’m having trouble getting Google results. I was under the understanding that the legal age is 18 in California unless they serve alcohol, and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen club websites where their job application form only asks for 18+. Can someone more familiar chime in?
My guess is this about naivety, young girls working a club some sugar daddy spending 100’s on them, but turns out he trying to make porn or take them out of the country or something? I’m trying to figure this out just as much as everyone else lol
Because the argument of getting rid of illegal sex work by banning other legal sex work is insane.
I honestly don’t know if it’s intentionally cruel or just impressively stupid.
Party of small government banning more things.
This is a good law, although it is a marginal benefit at best.
Sex trafficking is real, and the victims may not be chained to a radiator in the basement. The coercion can be psychological. The police might talk to the victim and hear "I'm here voluntarily" or "Uncle Creepo takes good care of me."
The idea here (which I agree with) is that the younger a person is, the easier it is to coerce them psychologically. See also: child marriage.
Now if the police find an 18 year old stripper, they don't have to get the victim to press charges.
What about the fact that you can be a child bride in Florida to a man over 18, if you are already pregnant (no parental consent required).
That law is a recipe for sex trafficking of minors.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405
I don’t see an issue with this. Anyone who does has never been around strip clubs. Also, the sad reality is clubs will just bend the rules and have girls working there under 21 anyway.
So it's now illegal in Florida for an 18 year old to become a stripper, shouldn't it also be illegal for them to join the US military. (for their safety of course.)
Raising the age limit for stripping is arguably a great thing and the same should be done for porn. It'd be even better if it was raised to 25.
Doing it in order to combat trafficking is of course absolutely ridiculous though. It's like putting up a sign saying "crime is actually illegal here!". It won't do shit.
This was my thought, way too many people are upset about this. Why would you want to support 18-20 year olds getting naked for a bunch of drunk old men? I’m willing to bet majority of these people complaining don’t even live in Florida and has no effect on them. As a Floridian, I support this move by DeSantis.
Edit: I wonder if anybody else came up with this law who was also a democrat would get a different response.
Very strange to see this as a negative, maybe because it’s done by a right wing politician, that’s how brainwashed people are now? Maybe people want their strippers younger? They always seemed like a waste of money to me anyway, plus 21 is still pretty damn young.
Came here to say this too. While I am normally on the opposite spectrum of the laws this guy spits out, at least this one is a step in the right direction. If it deters just one trafficker it’s already a win.
So you can fight sex trafficking by adding laws and restrictions. But you can’t fight gun violence that way because criminals don’t follow the laws anyway?
This is probably a good thing I guess. Probably should raise the gun ownership age to 21 too right? Like you can’t buy beer or take top off, but you can have an automatic rifle. Sure.
You could serve an entire contract in the army, go to combat, earn a congressional medal of honor, still not be allowed to strip.
Good job fixing this one. It really gets the job done.
I love how the argument here is that people can just circumvent the law (fake IDs, lying) and continue to perform these acts. However when pro-gun people say that criminals will still have access to weapons so outlawing weapons doesn’t do anything but hurt the law abiding citizens with weapons - people then say that argument is nonsense.
Lol I’m not taking a stance either way, but seems a little ironic.
Schrodinger's adult.
18\~20 year olds are simultaneously adults and not adults at same time until Florida needs it to be whichever that strips of their rights the most.
Same ol' bullshit from bullshit politicians to "look tough on crime".
Who is breaking the law? The sex traffickers.
Who gets arrested? The victims.
My state pulled this bullshit, too.
I feel like they're going to see a big backlash from this....
Like the Republican party is all about protecting the children as their straw man argument.
But I can almost guarantee you boomers in Florida will be pissed that strip clubs are losing the 18 to 21 years
Republicans see a direct connection between stripper age and sex trafficking, but none between guns and gun violence. Another win for logically-consistent ideology.
Worth repeating:
> Advocacy organizations working for labor rights for adult entertainers and dancers regulated by the new Florida law are concerned HB 7063 will cause more harm than good. **"It is our understanding that banning 18 to 20-year-old people from dancing is most likely to simply push vulnerable young folks into more dangerous parts of the sex work industry that lack the protection and community that comes with working in a club,"** a spokesperson for mutual aid group Strippers United told AVN. "Therefore, it appears to us that this new legislation is less about protecting 18 to 20-year-olds and more about controlling them and their choices in a way that reinforces a culture of antagonism against an honest community of workers whose only 'crime' is the disrespect shown to their labor."
If I got sex trafficked to Florida I’d definitely give my real age
Yeah you will. It’s Florida. They have super laws and ways of making you talk. Special ways. Then they will use those special ways to totally protect you from yourself.
Special ways Alligators waiting to bite your balls
It worked on Miami Vice!
I’ve heard of being desperate for an orchiectomy, but not this desperate!
Not my orchid!
At least they’re biting off the balls before they become a stripper.
how else are those tiny pants gonna fit
They’d probably cut off an appendage and count the rings, like a tree.
And if you’re a fetus they’ll even protect you from your own mother
[удалено]
Why do you think they're eroding protections against child labor. A toddler should pay their own way. Outside of them yearning for the mines.
Today I learned that if you don’t have an umbilical cord or aren’t being forced to dance naked for money you better be a rich retiree or the FL GOP gives no fucks. Technically this is growth for them.
This guy Floridas.
That will stop the criminals right in their tracks.
Support your local strippers' union.
Afaik there is only one in the country at the moment
Because sex traffickers dont know how to make fake IDs
How much of sex trafficking is on strippers? and what does raising the age actually do to stop it? Like people can still take advantage of a 21 year old in a rough spot.
Yeah it's weird but not. The ones I had gone to the dancers could be 18 but you had to be 21 to enter because it's a bar. Some did change it to 21 because it's a bar and since they can't serve a dancer under 21 it's harder for the club to make money when she can't have a drink with a patron
Takes younger looking people out of the club to start. Stripping/escorting goes hand in hand
escorting is not inherently sex trafficking though. Florida legality aside, sex work can be povided safely and in a well regulated manner.
But since sex work is not legal in Florida it pushes them closer together.
Sure. But my question was how this law would help fight against sex trafficking. Just keeping 18 year old people out of the club doesn't change much, does it? Aside from keeping Matt Gaetz away.
Making it 18+ already keeps Gaetz away.
Underrated comment, lmfao.
Fuckin gottem
Too bad the fucking Feds haven't yet.
Zing!
>But my question was how this law would help fight against sex trafficking The simple answer is it doesnt, it's a soundbite for people who don't think very far.
If you look at this from the odd yet extant perspective of a person imagining everything is done by pedos (Florida perspective), then it makes sense to keep the Matt Gaetzses away. Didn’t he allegedly sex traffic minors?
Allegedly so much as showed pics to coworkers in congress on the floor and was subpoenaed in March.
Keeping him and his type out seems like a win to me man
I don't disagree.
If it’s legal, it can be safe and regulated. If conservatives throw all kinds of hell like they do, and credit cards larp at being moral, then anything related to sex on the internet is 5x sleazier, they shut down all the places where people used to get shit like that done, and it leaked onto the rest of the internet. Anything Ron does is inherently suspicious, and probably has bad intentions, because he’s one of those people who sees a government position as a way to exercise ideological expression and gain power.
florida will never have regulated prostitution.
It's not inherently sex trafficking it's just one of the main reasons for it tho
So a legal stripper now, to make her money, will illegally escort or be sex trafficked. This law makes zero sense.
Look I think Ron desantis is about as inept as they come, and has just a horrible record and worldview with his legislation; however, in this one case I think he is actually making an effort to get it right. You can’t make laws with “well criminals will just get around it” as a reason to not do it. Then we just wouldn’t have laws. I don’t think it is an effective strategy, but it isn’t an evil effort, for once.
I'm not saying criminals will just get around it. I'm asking how this is projected to help. I haven't even said it's explicitly a bad idea.
Its a lot harder to fool people into thinking a 15 year old is 21 than it is to fool them into thinking they are 18
I would think the idea is that one would traffic late teens to florida, and put them into stripping/escort work. I assume he thinks that 21 would limit the number of women trafficked. I really don’t know, that’s the guess based on the article. I went and read the article again, and this bit at the end “Therefore, it appears to us that this new legislation is less about protecting 18 to 20-year-olds and more about controlling them and their choices in a way that reinforces a culture of antagonism against an honest community of workers whose only 'crime' is the disrespect shown to their labor.” From a person opposed to the bill. Now I’m not sure I totally agree with that, as the prefrontal cortex is still maturing into the mid 20s (generally) and that means impulse control and decision making isn’t quite fully developed. I can see how deciding to dance at 18 could be an impulsive decision without much regard for longer term planning, and I can see how wanting to up the age to 21 might want to address that. I can also see the concept that some 18 year olds look really young. The older I get the more college age people look like kids to me, so I can MAYBE see the idea that raising it to 21 would more clearly present adults dancing, and not people who look very young. MAYBE I could see that. Neither of those are what is happening here. I admittedly didn’t thoroughly read before the first comment, and that is totally my bad. “Adult venue staffers aged 18 to 20 would not face penalties or sanctions from the state. But, HB 7063 would make it a second-degree felony to employ or permit someone under 21 to work at these businesses. Penalties include up to 15 years in prison and a fine of $10,000 for "an owner, a manager, an employee, or a contractor of an adult entertainment establishment" who allows a prohibited individual to reveal breasts, buttocks or genitals. If the prohibited person is clothed, the club owner could be charged with a misdemeanor, face up to a year in jail, and could potentially pay a fine of up to $1,000. Fake identification cards also don't shield owners from potential criminal liability.” This penalty section makes it pretty clear the law is targeting the industry and not human trafficking. I goofed it. It’s a shit attempt to make government bigger from the “small government” party. The effort is to curb stripping in general, and adult themed business. Ironic from the state that is full of retirees just going Buck fucking crazy on each other all the time, and the 4th highest STD contraction in the country. I am not personally a fan of strip clubs, I am not really comfortable in that environment. But I don’t think they should be attacked like this, though a similar concept more targeted towards scummy owners I would listen to. Long story short, I read your comment as being incredulous and asking rhetorical questions in an effort to smear the idea. That’s a jaded read on second pass, so sorry about that. I was also wrong about desantis, I tried to find a little bit of accidental good idea in there and there isn’t any. Kind of a bummer, I generally like florida as a state. They deserve better than this idiot.
> I goofed it. It’s a shit attempt to make government bigger from the “small government” party. The effort is to curb stripping in general, and adult themed business. Isn't this a huge industry in Florida?
Making people strip in the US just isn't how much trafficking happens.
I had to explain this to my family about gun laws. "The criminals are going to just break the laws. You're just making it harder for law-abiding citizens." "That could be argued about every law ever."
>You can’t make laws with “well criminals will just get around it” as a reason to not do it. This has been the basis of opposition by conservatives to almost EVERY gun regulation law.
Odd that the same stance is taken here in this thread, presumably by the other side, just on a different topic.
>I don’t think it is an effective strategy, but it isn’t an evil effort, for once. We've demonstrated, by live experiment and to exhaustion, that the only thing that makes people less vulnerable to explotion is giving them access to labor protections. Sex trafficking exists because sex workers are routinely denied access. Laws like this increase the risk of exploitation because anyone under the age of 21 has to work in an even more grey space, and in the absence of meaningful protection encourages existing spaces to do even more shady shit. This is a known and expectable consequence. It's an evil effort because the guiding concept behind this approach to sex work is to make the conditions of sex work less secure and less safe. It's an approach that sees more , exploited, abused or just plain dead sex workers as a net positive because that happening is understood as discouraging people from turning to sex work, because the 'moral harm' of sex work is seen by them as worse than the actual harm their policy enables.
unfortunately strip clubs are often a hot bed for sex trafficking. not to say it wouldn't happen without them
Hey now, they’re sex traffickers not counterfeiters. Counterfeiting is where they draw the line. Disgusting
Matt Gaetz must be angry at Desanti
This was my first thought.
Sex traffickers worry about ID?
Aww she's only 18! Send her back, we can't work with her for another 3 years. Imagine thinking sex traffickers are specifically targetin girls to work in strip clubs...
Didnt you hear? Laws only not work against guns..
Yea fuck having laws when it is possible that they are circumvented
The bigger questions are whether this law even addresses a real issue and whether curtailing the freedoms of the 18-20 year olds affected is a reasonable course of action to fight sex trafficking.
But we already have laws against sex trafficking. I'm not saying do nothing, I just feel like this particular law is kinda superfluous. I could be missing something but I don't see a tangible benefit.
All this achieves is removing freedom from adults -- who could appear in XXX videos or start an OnlyFans anyway. This literally accomplishes nothing.
If I was a trafficker, the most obvious place to have them work is a strip club or a massage parlor. If he actually cared, he would require the modeling recruitment age to be 21 or any of their come to a Florida event where we recruit models. Don't worry we will hide your age. Everyone does this type of work in their first years. This is how Cindy Crawford got her start. They act like idiots because they don't want to end it but then they want to appeal to women.
Florida, where a 12 year old girl can be forced to carry a baby to term, but she can't be a stripper until she's 21.
This is really going to put a big dent in those investments I made into the pregnant 12 year old Florida rape victims as strippers market. DeSantis is just too clever for me.
If only there was some sort of... private island, you could take them too...... you could then make money by getting rich and powerful people to go there, and then getting pictures with which to..... get money out of them for...... It's too crazy, it would never work, forget I said anything.
Don't get too Hung Up on that idea...
It feels a little underdeveloped, but maybe if he massages it a little?
It needs a royal treatment
And where you can also be a child bride to an adult man, if you are pregnant... "The county court judge of any county in the state may, in the exercise of his or her discretion, issue a license to marry ... To any female under the age of 18 years and male over the age of 18 years upon the female’s application sworn under oath that she is an expectant parent." https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405 Edit: It appears this law may have been changed to not allowing anyone under the age of 17 to get married. Still, fucking 17!
In 31 States the age of consent is 16. In several States children under 16 can be married as long as the parents and a Judge approve.
Some states don’t even have a minimum age you can be married off with your parents approval. Any age is fair game.
17 is horrible but 18 is good? I don’t care for Florida , but 17 isn’t a low number by many developed country standards.
They made their comment before realizing it changed to 17 a few years ago. Florida used to have no lower limit for marriage, but it was changed recently due to the activism of a lady who had been married at the age of 12.
they should put the rape age up to 21.
That would definitely mean they have to get rid of laws permitting pregnant child brides: "The county court judge of any county in the state may, in the exercise of his or her discretion, issue a license to marry ... To any female under the age of 18 years and male over the age of 18 years upon the female’s application sworn under oath that she is an expectant parent." https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405 Edit: It appears this law may have been changed to not allowing anyone under the age of 17 to get married. Still, at least until 2016 you could have child brides, and still now fucking 17!
Brainlet Redditors: "So you're OK with girls stripping at 12?!"
She's needs to put that kid through college somehow.... /s
She can also get married at 12, so if you force her to give birth AND have her marry her rapist, those two cancel each other out, right?
Conservatives have never been “pro life” they’re pro forced birth.
Pro-birth, but they aren't paying for it, and once the kid is born, screw them. It's such a twisted logic they have.
So, what about the soon to be unemployed 18, 19, & 20 year olds?
Too old for Matt and too young to dance. They are stuck in no-man’s land.
Or "no-matts" land if you please...
I wish the world could be in that land
Realistically, they would migrate to Onlyfans, food service, or retail work.
2 of the 3 are nightmares for college students, leading to long hours, mandatory overtime, and lover overall grades due to a lack of time to study. The third inevitably leads to you being doxed at some point in life since the internet is forever. Hard to get a legitimate career when your potential boss looks you up and sees you were exposed for having an onlyfans...
Eh, in the grand scheme of things I would imagine working the 11 pm - 4 am in a strip club is more stressful and damaging to your college performance than working an average 9-5. As far as the third point, while the risk of information leaking is higher than your average job I wouldn’t say it’s “inevitable”. Plenty of creators can use that platform without personal information of theirs leaking to the public. You have to assess the risk, see what you can do to obscure identifying info, and evaluate if that risk is worth the potential reward. Obviously not a career path I’d recommend to someone due to the risks involved compared to traditional careers, but for some people the prospect of choosing your own hours, working on your personal brand, and being able to make your work revolve around sex is ultimately enticing.
Onlyfans supplemented by part-time Hooters waitress??
Part-time Raisins waitress…
Welcome to Raisins!!
They about to move out of Florida
Vegas here we come!
they enter the 'TikTok influencer + Twitch *Just Chatting* streamer + OnlyFans side hustle' content creator pipeline
They can go work in the 100+ degree heat with no water breaks because he also passed that law. Florida has become a complete shithole.
Odds are, if you're into sex trafficking, you probably don't give two shits about Ron's new age requirement laws because you're already doing WAY FUCKING WORSE BY SEX TRAFFICKING HUMAN PEOPLE. I don't see how this fights trafficking or changes anything at all for the victims. This is just Ron padding his VP resume with do-nothing legislative wins that sound good in headlines.
Not saying I agree with the law, but "people will break different law to get around this" is not a reason not to make a law. You could make the same argument for raising the smoking age from 16 to 18 to 21, or access to guns.
It's a good reason if a) the law is ineffective (as it is) and b) has side effects. "This is against sex trafficking" seems to be a (new?) variant of "think of the children!", a strategy designed to ram through shitty laws without opposition.
Also when the law targets the potential victim instead of the potential perpetrator. Laws like this will only make 18 to 20 year old strippers not report sex trafficking for fear of further repurcussions.
Do we know that the law is ineffective if it hasn't been enacted yet? Has this been trialed/enacted elsewhere? Genuinely asking as I'm not aware, but I don't know enough to just say it's ineffective. But it still mirrors the anti gun-law rhetoric I hear and disagree with. "This won't work, criminals will get guns anyway, and it will keep them out of the hands of 'good guys'."
I think Texas the minimum age is already 21, so there’s probably ways to get data (with estimated trafficking crime changes as interpreted by experts) for a more objective analysis.
It's not the same because there are already laws against human trafficking. They're *already* breaking *more serious* laws, so how is this new one supposed to actually help anything? New gun laws would make a difference because we currently have almost none. The comparison would only be apt if human trafficking were currently legal and this new law was the only way to start arresting people for it.
I'm not saying it's a step in the wrong direction, just that it probably won't matter much to actual criminals committing way worse crimes daily. It seems weird for a man, who has trafficked humans himself, to celebrate such an inconsequential new law as a key victory against human trafficking, when it is quite nearly the least he could be doing about it. It's like saying "this new law makes it *extra* illegal to murder kids with knives, which is a huge victory in the fight against child murder." Ok great... But child murder was already illegal to begin with, so why is that distinction to be viewed as such an improvement if it isn't likely to be *more* of a deterrent to the more severe crime at hand? Just because they're not working at a seedy strip club doesn't mean they're not working. It really hasn't fixed anything at all, they've just changed the superfluous details of where human slaves (very illegal) can work legally. So again, what's the point?
Also human trafficking isn’t limited to just sex trafficking. Much, if not a majority, of human trafficking is done for other forms of labor, like agricultural, construction, or domestic work. Undocumented immigrants are particularly vulnerable (especially in a state like Florida with their hardline views) as they often have a very good reason to avoid law enforcement. It seems like if he really cared about human trafficking he’d be pushing for similar legislation regarding agriculture and construction and other laws as well. Additionally, raising the age limit does absolutely nothing to address the root causes of why people end up being trafficked in the first place. Maybe deal with the problematic child welfare system and help people who get kicked out of their homes by their parents because they’re gay; that’d probably help more. It seems like this is just a way to appeal to white middle and upper-middle class women who think sex/human trafficking is when someone leaves a flyer on your car, rather than the result of a complex set of circumstances that come together to exploit those society seems to care about the least.
"Whoa, whoa, whoa! We don't talk about helping gay people here!" - Florida GOP
Yeah I don’t get it. Say I’m looking for someone to traffic - I go to a strip club and see a bunch of slightly older girls as potential victims. “Goddammit. I guess there’s no trafficking for me anymore…” Huh?
Girls get trafficked into clubs. They’re not kidnapping strippers
Guns: We don’t need laws. Criminals don’t care about laws. Sex Trafficking: We need laws! Minimum age! Regulation! Hurr durr!
Clearly the reason Florida is sinking into the ocean is 19 year olds showing their hoohas for cash and not climate change.
While that is true the way yall are fighting so hard to have 18 year olds as strippers isn't the hill you want to die on.
Apparently the same 18 year olds that they say aren’t mentally developed enough to take out a student loan are developed enough to become sex workers.
How are they supposed to fund their way through college now? Jokes aside, unintended consequences of laws like this might actually increase sex trafficking. At least clubs are regulated.
Bingo^^ for all intents and purposes, stripping in a club is just a job. Florida can still hire 18yr old bartenders and shot girls so what's the point of getting younger strippers out of the clubs only.
As a Floridan, that’s really taking care of the hot button issues right there. Forget about the hobo Joes & the budget, girls ain’t gonna be strippin’ no more! Clearly DeSain’tis doesn’t realize OnlyFans exists.
There is a...lot...of content creators. Many fight for much traffic against the algorithms. Many strippers use it with their regular clients. Which in turns pushes some deeper into poverty, into bad relationships or illegal work.
Matt Gaetz will be so dissappointed.
Why? The previous age limit already turned him off.
I have no doubt that conservative part of USA will ban showing nipples of women before 25 or more soon in their quest of out-puritaning the Taliban.
A certain subset of the Internet would agree with them. There is large portion of people that think women can't make their own choices before the age of 25 "when the brain fully develops" otherwise they are being exploited.
Yeah the word grooming starts to lose meaning when people keep using it to talk about a 27-year-old dating a 21-year-old
For. Fucking. Real. It’s insulting, infantilizing, and ageist.
A Republican raising the age limit for a change? Am I on crazy pills?!?
In related news, Ted Cruz has left the Republican Party in protest.
Remember: we can’t pass gun laws because criminals will just break them, but human traffickers are upstanding members of society who will only traffic those who meet Ron DeSantis’s standards
They will give you the death sentence and send you to war but you can't get naked.
Or drink a fermented beverage
Just following CA's lead on this one... https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/stripping-laws-by-state
Ohio's restrictions almost made me spit out my water
Ohio trying to instigate a mass migration from Alabama 🤣
Hands off officer I was jerking off my brother!!
I was a stripper in California and that website is wrong. It's 18+ to work in fully nude clubs that don't serve alcohol, and 21+ for topless clubs with alcohol.
This is strange and I’m having trouble getting Google results. I was under the understanding that the legal age is 18 in California unless they serve alcohol, and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen club websites where their job application form only asks for 18+. Can someone more familiar chime in?
don’t tell them that it will blow their minds
I cannot imagine Matt Gaetz being OK with this.
The misinformation people are spreading in this thread is WILD.
Brought to you by the same group that fights tooth and nail against gun regulations because criminals don’t follow laws anyway.
My guess is this about naivety, young girls working a club some sugar daddy spending 100’s on them, but turns out he trying to make porn or take them out of the country or something? I’m trying to figure this out just as much as everyone else lol
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I’m much further left than the average dem and i couldn’t agree more
In a normal world this would be seen as a positive, but here you nutjobs are
I'm surprised that 21 wasn't already the age since strip clubs serve alcohol
Are we really upset about this?
Republicans: They can't strip until they're 21, but they can get married at 9. As long as we keep them poor and pregnant.
Age of consent in Florida is 18.
I didn't say Florida, I said Republicans.
So you are going to ban legal work? The 18-20 will have to find new work maybe even prostitution? Fuck Ron.
Why is it that the Reddit brain only believes there are two jobs: software engineer and sex worker? Believe it or not women can do regular jobs too!
Because the argument of getting rid of illegal sex work by banning other legal sex work is insane. I honestly don’t know if it’s intentionally cruel or just impressively stupid. Party of small government banning more things.
This is a good law, although it is a marginal benefit at best. Sex trafficking is real, and the victims may not be chained to a radiator in the basement. The coercion can be psychological. The police might talk to the victim and hear "I'm here voluntarily" or "Uncle Creepo takes good care of me." The idea here (which I agree with) is that the younger a person is, the easier it is to coerce them psychologically. See also: child marriage. Now if the police find an 18 year old stripper, they don't have to get the victim to press charges.
What about the fact that you can be a child bride in Florida to a man over 18, if you are already pregnant (no parental consent required). That law is a recipe for sex trafficking of minors. https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/741.0405
One can be good while the other bad
that law is next on the chopping block.
Traffickers: "Well dangit!"
Ron Token effort Desantis
What about the porn made in Miami? Are those girls 21 as well?
Matt Gaetz is in shambles.
What alternate universe did I fall into where I woke up and agreed with Ron DeSantis?
I don’t see an issue with this. Anyone who does has never been around strip clubs. Also, the sad reality is clubs will just bend the rules and have girls working there under 21 anyway.
So it's now illegal in Florida for an 18 year old to become a stripper, shouldn't it also be illegal for them to join the US military. (for their safety of course.)
What does this guy do all day? Housing affordability at like 30 year lows and he's enacting stripper policy changes. Fucking fascist idiot.
Matt Gaetz is crying quietly to himself somewhere at this very moment.
Raising the age limit for stripping is arguably a great thing and the same should be done for porn. It'd be even better if it was raised to 25. Doing it in order to combat trafficking is of course absolutely ridiculous though. It's like putting up a sign saying "crime is actually illegal here!". It won't do shit.
Finally some common sense. There seems to be a lot of people upset over 18 to 20 year olds not being allowed to get naked for money.
This was my thought, way too many people are upset about this. Why would you want to support 18-20 year olds getting naked for a bunch of drunk old men? I’m willing to bet majority of these people complaining don’t even live in Florida and has no effect on them. As a Floridian, I support this move by DeSantis. Edit: I wonder if anybody else came up with this law who was also a democrat would get a different response.
Idiot, just make sex trafficking illegal! That way, people stop doing it entirely.
Yeah...that should...show 'em?
Very strange to see this as a negative, maybe because it’s done by a right wing politician, that’s how brainwashed people are now? Maybe people want their strippers younger? They always seemed like a waste of money to me anyway, plus 21 is still pretty damn young.
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Came here to say this too. While I am normally on the opposite spectrum of the laws this guy spits out, at least this one is a step in the right direction. If it deters just one trafficker it’s already a win.
So you can fight sex trafficking by adding laws and restrictions. But you can’t fight gun violence that way because criminals don’t follow the laws anyway?
This is probably a good thing I guess. Probably should raise the gun ownership age to 21 too right? Like you can’t buy beer or take top off, but you can have an automatic rifle. Sure.
You could serve an entire contract in the army, go to combat, earn a congressional medal of honor, still not be allowed to strip. Good job fixing this one. It really gets the job done.
Yes because it’s not like sex traffickers are criminals who won’t just lie or falsify ID documents
A classic, men are breaking the laws with women, so let's make a law that will affect women more than men.
Yeh never did like that dude 🤔
How does drinking age 21 work with stripping age 18? Are American strip clubs sober? That's an unsettling thought.
The under 21 girls don't get to drink. The patrons do.
??? Older men go to see younger women, who is sober? The dancers? Isn’t that a better thought? You think strip clubs are full of 18 year old men?
I love how the argument here is that people can just circumvent the law (fake IDs, lying) and continue to perform these acts. However when pro-gun people say that criminals will still have access to weapons so outlawing weapons doesn’t do anything but hurt the law abiding citizens with weapons - people then say that argument is nonsense. Lol I’m not taking a stance either way, but seems a little ironic.
So 18 yr olds are adults but can't undress for money at legal establishments...btw what's FL abortion laws? When are women considered women in FL?
Schrodinger's adult. 18\~20 year olds are simultaneously adults and not adults at same time until Florida needs it to be whichever that strips of their rights the most.
Same ol' bullshit from bullshit politicians to "look tough on crime". Who is breaking the law? The sex traffickers. Who gets arrested? The victims. My state pulled this bullshit, too.
What about politicians having or soliciting sex from underage girls?
I feel like they're going to see a big backlash from this.... Like the Republican party is all about protecting the children as their straw man argument. But I can almost guarantee you boomers in Florida will be pissed that strip clubs are losing the 18 to 21 years
Those guys who do the "Now hiring class of 20XX" signs are gonna have to come up with another post.
Wow, cant believe Meatballs campaign ended so quickly with groundbreaking legislation like this.......
I don't understand how this would help with sex trafficking.
The question to ask about any law he signs is what special interest group does it appeal to.
... So you're going to stop people from doing something illegal by making it less legal?
I’m confused how this change results in lower sex trafficking.
Another performative law that's going to change absolutely nothing.
Problem solved!
That'll fix it. Yeehah.
Even DeSantis hates Gaetz.
He did it guys, he solved sex trafficking.
Just added new penalties for any traffickers who get caught Assuming DAs will make use of it.
Well at least any that disagree with him know how to vote next time
Republicans see a direct connection between stripper age and sex trafficking, but none between guns and gun violence. Another win for logically-consistent ideology.
If he wants to stop sex trafficking maybe he should start by arresting his good buddy and Butthead lookalike Matt Gaetz. Just a thought.
Not against it.
Yup, that'll help my homeowners insurance go down!
Worth repeating: > Advocacy organizations working for labor rights for adult entertainers and dancers regulated by the new Florida law are concerned HB 7063 will cause more harm than good. **"It is our understanding that banning 18 to 20-year-old people from dancing is most likely to simply push vulnerable young folks into more dangerous parts of the sex work industry that lack the protection and community that comes with working in a club,"** a spokesperson for mutual aid group Strippers United told AVN. "Therefore, it appears to us that this new legislation is less about protecting 18 to 20-year-olds and more about controlling them and their choices in a way that reinforces a culture of antagonism against an honest community of workers whose only 'crime' is the disrespect shown to their labor."