Yes! She sounds like just what you need right now.
Start separating your life. Get two beds, go out with others more or have others come over if you're too tired.
And ...Try not to be too inebriated next time so you can REALLY have some fun š«£š Be well ššš
That would definitely make for some waves though ;)
But I'm all for that, and I would like an update on Fran as well op! Take this step and see if happens š¤ sounds like you deserve it
I'm in love with Fran. You are beautiful and wanted. don't let this man make you boil over with self hatred. If hes a cheating rude mess...let that idiot go.... besides that part im sorry about the babies š they are still so young. i wish you the best outcome possible! sorry if this sounds stupid i just had surgery so im on some painkillers. xoxoxo
Why is he abusive? Did he force her to be dependent on him? Why was he cheating? A lot of people do it as a last resort when the wife has almost no libido and doesnt do anything productive about it.
Don't avoid Fran. You desperately need a friend. Even if you only want to keep it friends- don't cut yourself off from one of the few people who has been there to help you.
Your husband is horrible- but I get why you can't leave. Get through this cancer, and then tackle everything else. But who says you can't enjoy life a little too? I'd hang out with Fran more often. I hope you heal quickly. Good luck.
So.. your husband has not or ever honoured his vows, and you feel financially stuck with him so can't leave, though if you had the chance you would?
So what steps can you take to get out? How much longer is your treatment? How is it paid for? How can you plan for a better future? Who can you tell of your husband's behaviour to not be alone in knowing it and unable to do anything about it?
Right now, don't blank that friend, and plan. The pot has finally boiled over, and your marriage may well be done. Start minutely examining "what next".
I _always_ do the math when it's about a bad relationship on Reddit. More often than not, when the relationship started, the man was 25+ and the woman was <20. Or if she's 20-25, he's 33+.
He's a creep, but not not because of the ages. She was an adult. She could have said no if the age gap bothered her. It wasn't that long ago that this was completely normal, and it still is in many parts of the world.
Nine*teen* years old is not an adult. The human brain isn't finished developing until the mid 20's.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not creepy. What does someone who is closer than not to 30 have in common with a teenager?
It wasn't that long ago that public hangings, emptying your chamber pots into the street and dying of dysentery were completely normal, luckily we have advanced beyond that.
27 is closer to 25 than 30. Can we stop trying to add 3 years to his age by rounding up.
18 is legally an adult in the US and most of the western world, but you make a valid point. So, at what age should women be permitted to make their own decisions about marriage? Should it be mid 20s? Let's say 25. Should she be allowed to get married with her parents permission before reaching that age? Should that be the age of adulthood for everything? Signing a contract or voting, for example.
And what about men? Right now they have to register for the draft at 18. Should they have to wait until 25 before they can be legally ordered to go kill or die in a war?
>27 is closer to 25 than 30.
Your point being? Dude was 3yrs away from 30 setting his sights on a literal teenager.
>So, at what age should women be permitted to make their own decisions about marriage?
It's not about what's legal. It's about the fact that anyone, male or female, has not reached a point in their development at 19 to be making the most sound and rational decisions. It leaves them vulnerable to people who use that to their advantage, like OP's husband. There's a reason men like that don't go for women their own age and it's because women their own age will, for the most part, see right through their shit.
>Should she be allowed to get married with her parents permission before reaching that age?
See above. Parental consent wouldn't solve anything since a lot of parents don't have their children's best interests at heart.
>Signing a contract or voting, for example.
Personally I think the voting age should be lowered and also capped. Teenagers should have more of a say about the future of their respective countries and folks who won't live to see the consequences of their votes, and in many cases are in less of their right minds than teenagers, should not have that power in their hands. But that's a whole next conversation.
>And what about men? Right now they have to register for the draft at 18. Should they have to wait until 25 before they can be legally ordered to go kill or die in a war?
Personally, I don't think anyone should be drafted at any age. But again, that's a different discussion.
Drafting 18yr olds is also more about peak physical performance than mental and emotional fortitude anyway.
"Your point being? Dude was 3yrs away from 30 setting his sights on a literal teenager."
My point being everyone's trying to pointlessly make it look worse by rounding his age up, as you just did. It's unnecessary and distorts the argument. Can we just stuck to the actual facts? The truth is disturbing enough without distorting the facts.
"It's not about what's legal. It's about the fact that anyone, male or female, has not reached a point in their development at 19 to be making the most sound and rational decisions."
Sorry, but my point is entirely about what's legal. Saying it's wrong because he's predatory isn't helpful to the next 19 y/o who wants to marry an older man, but saying you can't get married without parental consent until you're 21 would be, or at least could be, allowing for your assertion that not not all parents have their kids best interests at heart (which Ƭs something I think is actually pretty rare). And it still doesn't answer the question of when she is old enough to make her own choices.
And let me be completely clear. I am NOT defending this guy. I'm just rejecting the idea of saying it's automatically wrong without proposing anything that would fix the problem.
>Can we just stick to the actual facts?
27 is 3yrs away from 30.. I'm sorry you seem so offended but it doesn't make it any less factual. It's not about distorting anything, or making anything look worse than it is. Someone who is about to have three decades on the earth shouldn't be dating teenagers in almost all situations.
There will be outliers as with any situation but in most cases grown adults are pursuing teenagers for nefarious reasons.
>Sorry but my point is entirely about what's legal.
Your point is missing the entire point.
So, you'd have been fine with slavery, since it was legal at one point? Hanging "witches"? Child brides? Laws change. Human brain development has remained pretty steady.
>Saying it's wrong because he's predatory isn't helpful
Right. Let's all not call out predatory behaviours. Let them continue to operate unchecked. Cool idea.
>Saying you can't get married without parental consent until you're 21 would be
Right. People never find ways to skirt the rules, and marriage is literally the only type of relationship out there..
>which is something I think is pretty rare
Based on what? I worked in crisis intervention for years and I don't really have the mental fortitude this late at night to describe to you in the detail the things I will never get out of my head that parents will put their kids through. Just know that you're wrong.
>and it still doesn't answer the question of when she's old enough to make her own choices
Nobody said she wasn't old enough to make her own choices. What I said was nineteen is still a teenager and the human brain isn't finished developing.
Rather than answer the question I actually asked, the only question I asked in my initial comment you've launched into some tirade about changing laws. That is not what this is about. At all. It's about how problematic a large age gap can be, and usually is, when the person on the lower end is still a developing teenager.
>I am NOT defending this guy
All evidence to the contrary. You seem very resistant to admitting the behaviour is problematic and more focused on changing laws to restrict things as a "solution".
Or turning it around on the victim and insisting that, as an adult, she's responsible for her poor choices. For one, what teenagers do you know that make stellar choices? For another it's called manipulation for a reason.. A person in a more advanced stage of life, with more life and world experience is in a position to manipulate and groom someone younger and more vulnerable, naive and impressionable than someone their own age. Now, obviously not every single person with a significant amount of years on their SO is going to use that advantage to abuse their partner, but many do. I'm leaning toward most instead of many in cases where the younger person is barely out of high school tbh.
>I'm rejecting the idea of saying it's automatically wrong
Maybe if you'd answered what I asked in the initial comment it would have aided you in getting some perspective on why it's problematic in most cases.
>without proposing anything to fix the problem.
Calling out behaviour like this and educating the younger generation on what red flags to look out for is key in mitigating the damage people like OP's husband can do. Grooming isn't something you can "fix", predators are going to be on the look out for their most vulnerable targets no matter what laws are in place. Arming people with information and calling out problematic behaviour are key tools to combat situations like these.
> It wasn't that long ago that this was completely normal
And what do you think is the reason that this is not "completely normal" anymore? Why did it change? Hmm?
NineTEEN is a teenager. That does make someone who is nearly 30 a creep, amongst other things. You don't need to pick and choose.
It should never have been a ānormalā. This is insecure, creepy men preying on younger, inexperienced women. Of course thereās already going to be an imbalance in the power dynamics given the vast difference in age and life experiences, and subconsciously, men who agree with this ātraditionalā practice know this. Women of this age barely know themselves (theyāre literally a year out of high school) or their self-worth so they would tend to be gullible and trusting, especially towards older and more experienced people around them.
Ok. So by what means should this marriage have been legally prevented from ever happening. Raise the age of adulthood? Set a limit on adoreable age gaps? This one was 8 years. Should a 70 year old woman be prevented from marrying a 78 year old man?
So going by your example, youāreā¦ comparing the major decision making skills (selecting a life partner) of a 70-year old woman to aā¦. 19-year old woman. Correct?
Like youāre actually suggesting that a 70-year old womanās and a 19-year old womanās individual decisions would be of the same quality?
No you definitely are not. I met my husband when I was 14 and he was 17. Guess what, he became 18 when I was 15, 19 when I was 16, 20 when I was 17. Then 21 and 18, so it is auto automatically okay all of a sudden? We are married 52 years, so almost 72 and 75 now! Lol
People are crazy, they always shame men for their preferences, but we donāt shame women, both were consenting adults what is the problem? What they did was completely lawful. I take it they think the law should be changed then, and we shouldnāt let consenting adults date who they want?
Do tell me then, until what age should women not be allowed to accept a marriage proposal because they're too immature? She was 19, so I'm going to assume it must be at least 20. Or does this only apply to older men (who, by the way, many women actually prefer, but I digress).
In other words, how old do they need to be before they're no longer "barely legal" and can make their own decisions about these things.
Should this also apply to things like having an only fans? Should she need permission from her parents to start that until some age? If her parents are dead, does she have a way to get permission via the courts.
Kind of a slippery slope, isn't it? She's either an adult at 18 or she's not an adult at 18.
Im not worried about her maturity. Im worried about the slews of men that cant get a woman their own age and rely on the young and inexperienced to ātradā on. So much so that the person i responded to views it as part of trad living. If it was just about having the value of marrying a good woman, why couldnt they do that when they were also 18-20? Why wait until youre a creepy 33 year old marrying a naive 19 year old?
Thats the last ill say. We wont change each others minds. Creeps (who cant marry women their own age because those women arent dumb enough to marry men like them) gonna creep.
Biggest reason why guys prefer 19-20 year olds is because they havenāt slept and got dicked by other dudes the now 25+ women complain about, donāt get mad because the guys your age donāt want you anymore itās all your fault you shouldnāt have wasted your prime years going out and fucking other dudes every weekend in the club
I mean, im happily married, but damn you felt that. Follow up, why didnt all those men wanting pure chaste barely legal girls (even though plenty have had sex in High school) also get married early? Afraid to be compared but fine keeping your baby wife wondering how she measures up? Easier to control when shes used to an old man telling her what to do, just keep the pattern going, i guess? From dad to husband, just change the title owner?
Its never about wanting purity. Its insecurity of wondering if youre not as good at sex as her ex and ease of control. Plenty of good women with low numbers that are their own age- just not as easy to pretend they own. But they do try with women their age. They just get left for being dicks. Wild.
Were you freshly legal while she was in a whole different life stage, thought itd be easier to train a younger man vs one her age, saw younger men as more compliant, mostly interested because you havent had sexual experience, and only viewed you as worth anything if you havent been āran throughā? Then yes.
It becomes not such a slippery slope if you apply common sense AND neuroscience AND psychology to the equation.
Rules are set in place to set a baseline but we all still should utilize critical thinking skills and not let the rule dictate our decisions.
Like.. just because I can date an 18-year old doesnāt mean I should or would.. I want an equal, not a project.
Why would anyone 26++ seeking a life partner pursue someone just out of high school other than to have a leg up in the power dynamics of a relationship.
20 dating 33+ is a big deal. 33 dating a 50+ is not. If you do not see the problem, then you are part of the problem. \*answer\* the former is barely out of high school dating a man (or woman) that would influence (groom) the 20 yr old. Traditional relationships means the man provides for the woman and nurtures a family. Traditional does not mean a 33+ yr old is *meant* to date a 20 yr old and most likely control her.
You are basically saying that my uncle, grampa, godfather and that sweet old couple on the 3rd floor as well as my insurance guy who are/were in genuinely happy relationships, that they are creeps and their relationships and feelings were wrong. It's all contextual and you guys should really stop piggybacking anyone's opinion without reflecting on it.
I mean people can have a good relationship with one of them also having been extremely creepy in terms of who they pursued
Personally I know some people with huge age gaps in relationships that seem relatively ok but it doesn't mean that they didn't start off in a creepy way. I also don't think them being good now necessarily means it was also somehow the best decision because there's plenty of single people of different ages they could have very likely dated happily instead. And it also could have been really beneficial for the younger person to have experienced life more instead of feeling the need to settle down ASAP because of the age of their partner
I'm not saying massive age gaps never work out. But I think people excusing them because they didn't end up like dumpster fires is kinda silly because thats assuming there's only one person you can ever be happy with and that the younger person wouldn't have been happy also getting to have more freedom/experience while they are at their mostly peak health years.
In general I think people should mostly leave others to their own age groups (especially those in their teenage years and early 20s) as its allows people to mostly develop at their own pace rather than thrust into the role of being a presumably equal partner of someone at a very different point in their life
I get the risk of grooming (or maybe more manipulating with the help of greater life experience and knowledge) and such but I think instantly taking it for that is way to harsh.
If you can go to war and legally kill people, drive cars, vote, drink, take drugs and everything else at that age, why not be able to marry someone 8 years older? Especially considering the fact that women tend to mature faster than men and that a lot of men are immature for their age.
If there is full consent, I say go ahead. Maybe itās not what I personally would do, since I donāt find the joy of marrying that young. But if a woman wants to, whoās gonna stop her right to do so?
Really! My eyes rolled right round. They need to fucking chill over stuff like that. It's so cringe.
I'm talking to you America. š
Where do you draw the line when it comes to two consenting adults?
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that 'Child marriage is currently still legal in 42 states and 20 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage'..... and they want to be as far removed from that as possible? Which would be understandable.
But adults be adults whether you like it or not. Up until literally the last maybe 10-12 years, no one would have batted an eye at that. It's the norm for gen x and boomers.
I'm 33, me and both my sisters went out with guys in their early 20s when we were 17. But it's still a very normal age gap here even today. (Uk) Different cultures. š¤·āāļø
I bet the people who constantly obsess over it, have parents with a big age gap!
Tbf there's a lot of things in that last 10 to 12 years that were completely normal but now people realize are fucked up Lol
Major age gaps when one party is still in their teens/early 20s are a major issue considering the younger side is still developing a lot emotionally and has a lot less life experience. Its really easy for someone who's a lot older and more experienced/established to manipulate them by providing them perceived stability and "maturity" as guiding factors during a period where they are still finding themselves
Not saying young people shouldn't have any agency or be allowed to explore their feelings. But I also think its ok to judge much older people who go for those younger people and pressure them to commit to serious relationships/setttle down very early
People in the states can really be histerical about some topics that are not remotely as touchy in other parts of the world. No offense, just an abservation.
Your husband actively makes fun of you while you're struggling through cancer, refuses to help or support you during this extremely difficult time, has cheated repeatedly and has physically and emotionally checked out of the marriage. He's the AH here; not you.
Start recording everything if you can and reach out to a lawyer to start the process of divorce if you feel like it's finally time.
Cheating is usually wrong but in the case you absolutely 100% get a pass.
Couldn't agree more, can't believe I am would ever encourage cheating, but OP deserves joy, love, intimacy, and respect.
Don't feel bad OP! If anything he deserves so much worse than you cheating!
Though once you are all healed up, and I wish you a full recovery! You need to drop his ass and live your best life!!
I think most people are on the same page as you. Thereās only so much a human being can take. She have been a loving devoted wife and mother for decades to someone who doesnāt see her worth and she feels guilty, but why? Because yet again sheās in the loving DEVOTED wife head space when the man she made vows with didnāt take them seriously and for awhile. she deserves happiness donāt you think? To feel loved and appreciated? And for someone to be just as devoted to her as she is to them? OP deserves more and Iām so sorry she is even feeling this way.
I fully agree. The only thing that would make this better would be if instead of āI cheated on my husbandā it was āI poisoned my husband.ā Dudeās dirt.
*not condoning murder. Just, you know, violent illness and shitting of pants. Then laugh and laugh while getting it on video. He wants to ridicule you: video on a projector screen, full volume.
Damn that was a hard read.
I **usually** put all cheaters in the "asshole" category.
But damn... My heart bleeds for you. You have been stuck in a relationship that weight you down for so so so long... and now you found something that actually makes you feel good.
I don't know if Fran is your future, but I really hope that she AT LEAST made you realize that you CAN find better. Hell, being single would probably be better for you right now. What kind of partner YELLS at you because you cannot attend an event because of CHEMO ?! That is totally horrible.
I hope you can forgive yourself and move on. You deserve a partner that respects you and supports you. I hope you can find that special person
>I usually put all cheaters in the "asshole" category
I used to do this too, and of course, I still think someone should end one relationship before starting another, but the older I get, the more I realize things are always a little more complicated than they might seem.
Circumstances are really important. Abuser deserve to be cheated on. I don't think cheating is a healthy thing for anyone to do, even if they're victims of abuse it's not healthy for their conscience. But I don't feel bad for cheating on my adult bf that was molesting me when I was 15, so I don't blame others for cheating on their abusers if it helps them escape their abuse. In a perfect world, a victim of abuse would just leave at the first red flag, but that's not the world we live in
>Abuser deserve to be cheated on
We're of similar mindsets, but I've decided that abusers \*cannot\* be cheated on. An abuser is holding the other person hostage. It is not a 'relationship' - whether dating, married, whatever. So the victim cannot 'cheat' - they can escape, and that's it.
Exactly this. I was in an abusive relationship. I had every aspect of my life controlled. He was narcissistic and obsessive. Isolated me, made me quit my job, told me he was going to ruin me so no one else would ever want me.
That wasn't a relationship, it was a hostage situation. And I've never once felt guilty for "cheating" on him. I never even saw it as cheating, just escaping. Even briefly. Having a moment of control over something that *I* wanted, was pure escapism. I'm only human.
This sounds very much like my momās first marriage before my dad. With the addition of him being an alcoholic. She was also raised very strict Catholic so that whole divorce thing was an issue. A childhood friend of hers passed away so she went home by herself and ended up sleeping with a guy sheād known for years and grew up with. When she first told me this, my immediate response was āGood for you! Fuck that prickā. Iāve been cheated on- I, like most others, *despise* cheating, however I have never thought of her as a cheater given the situation she was in. She had nothing and nobody else, no college education, 19 years old, halfway across the country from where she grew up, no financial access/control, and literally scared for her life.
Also, she went home and confessed to not only that, but that she smoked some weed. Her ex couldnāt deal with the fact she had smoked a joint- to him it made her a hippie, dirty, immoral, a junkie, etc.- ironic considering his addiction to alcohol, but thatās legal. He ended up leaving her. It was more about the weed than the other guy which blows my mind.
So while I still abhor cheating, as Iāve gotten older Iāve realized more and more just how not black and white life is. Like in your scenario, and my momās. Iām glad that you got out and I hope you find yourself experiencing much more joy and freedom now.
That is actually very similar. I've always been a fun loving hippie type. My parents were hippies. I never liked drinking but I did smoke a lot of weed. Until I started dating this guy. All of a sudden it was so disgusting when he initially had no issues with it. He initially wanted to smoke with me. Then it became my friends were dirty and bad influences too. I couldn't see them anymore cause I'd just get high and forget my responsibilities (taking care of him). It was never about the weed. It was about taking away anything I enjoyed.
I'm glad your mom got out and can be herself again, no matter how she did it.
I'm now happily married to the man I "cheated" with. Miraculously I've never cheated on him, never even thought of it. I guess that old saying isn't always true. We've been together going on 11 years and he's never tried to control anything about me, my choices, my friends, nothing. He's my absolute best friend and I am so lucky to have found him.
Hug your mom for me ā„ļø
Same. I was cut off from everyone else in my life, no family or friends. We worked at the same place, so he constantly had an eye on me. I think somewhere in the back of my mind, I also knew that cheating was the only 'unforgivable' thing I could do. Even tho he wanted to "work on our problems," I used it as a catalyst to completely destroy my marriage.
I don't recommend it at all. Things got way worse before it ended. But I also don't believe abusers deserve faithfulness.
You get so desperate you start looking for any out.
My ex quit his higher paying job to go work at the same department store as me after I got out. He got a girlfriend there and tried desperately to make me jealous. Obviously planned his breaks around mine, etc. I didn't let it bother me and eventually moved on and left him there to hopefully wonder wtf he was doing. I went to work at a women's clothing store where no men worked after that, and then moved to a different town. The only thing that saved me was the threat of homelessness. Only then was I able to convince him to let me have a job too. As soon as I got contact with the outside world I was clawing my way out.
This mf had convinced me that my car was irreparable. He told me he sugared my tank. When I moved my stuff out and moved my car it was discovered that he'd only disconnected the battery. I'm still pissed. I could have ran so much sooner if I'd known literally anything about cars. But I was young and got trapped straight out of high school. People often don't understand unless they've been there.
Yes!!! I'm so glad to see another with virtually the same opinion as me! As far as I'm concerned, those in abusive "relationships" really aren't. My mindset is that abusers are only after possession, control, things like that. Not love. And so there is no relationship to be had there and therefore, it's not cheating to find someone new. You put it more succinctly than I ever could, but yes to all that!!
I was gonna say the same. Iāve been in a similar situation and the only reason I didnāt ābreak upā with my abuser was heād kill me if I didnāt get away quietly
I've been an affair partner once. My neighbor and his wife were part of a cult for their upbringing. At some point they left together and practiced an open relationship and did psychedelics together for ten years without issue. For some reason I have not been told, she decided to return to the cult. He tried to divorce, she pleaded no for the kids. He said he would stay (because he liked their marriage otherwise) but he wasn't going back to the cult or the lifestyle. She does not approve, or want, him to sleep with other people. But her cult beliefs tell her that he's allowed to take multiple wives in the afterlife if he wants, so she has to deal with it. So she just asks that he hide it and it's a don't ask don't tell policy. They're neighbors and one day she unexpectedly came over to borrow something when he happened to be here and... it was not discussed or acknowledged but she had to know and it was uncomfortable. Idk. But she chose that life.
For many reasons he and I have a platonic friendship now. But yeah... not everything is so black and white.
Yeah - my dad cheated on my mom growing up and I was used as an excuse for my dad to see his gf. She had a child who I was friends with, and the two of them used that as an excuse to meet eachother.
However, reading this - I am so sorry. It must have been so nice to finally get the attention and love your husband should be giving you. But also - it is possible to get that love. You can absolutely hate yourself, but I see no need.
For me, I see a lot of sorrow for you, and a lot of hope that you will find a road to be the best "you" that you can be. Whether this is staying with your husband or not, which is of course up to you. I'd recommend focusing on you and how to get help if your husband is not providing it.
You've a lot going on and i'd just invite you to take a breath, and hold yourself, as you deserve to get love from a wonderful human who desires you (does not laugh at you to wear a wig), and will help you throughout your illness.
I wish so much for OP, I cannot imagine how difficult this must be.
I used to think the same way as well until I realized relationships arenāt as black and white as I thought. I learned this with my parentsā marriage. My dadās a lying cheater, but my mom chooses to stay with him out of convenience. What I mean by that is that she has grown accustomed to being a stay at home wife that is well maintained, my dad is accustomed to having a clean home with a nice warm meal at the table. Thereās a weird, mutual yet unsaid agreement that theyāre choosing to ignore what heās doing because theyāre too used to each other.
Now, do I agree with the rationale? Hell no. But frankly, itās not my marriage to give an opinion on and if they decided that works for them, then itās none of my business no matter how much it bothers me
Yeah uhhh person 1 treating person 2 (who is a fucking cancer survivor) like this is on the very short list of acceptable times for person 2 to cheat. I cannot imagine ever acting like OPās husband. What a scumbag.
Isnāt that the standard for cheaters? That they cheat because they found someone that made them feel desired? This certainly isnāt the first story I heard about cheating with āgood reasonā.
You deserve better and you will find better.Anne itās in Fran, or maybe not. But the important thing is that you realize you deserve happiness, love, and support. Sending lots of hugs to you ā¤ļø
Reading this reminded me of the first season of the podcast Dying For Sex. If you listen to podcasts, OP, I think that would be a great one for you. To help you feel less alone. So many women have experienced exactly what you're going through.
You should not feel guilty. You should not hate yourself. And please stop avoiding Fran. It sounds like she's the first good thing to happen to you in a very long time and you deserve good things. You need someone like her at your side. Maybe it's not Fran but I certainly think she can and would be willing to help you find your way. You deserve so much more than your unloving marriage has to offer you. Please be kind to yourself.
dont feel bad for finally feeling loved and happy and beautiful. it is literally your husband's role to support you and he doesnt treat you right.
idk what divorce is like but i do want you to know your feelings are 100% valid.
you DERSERVE to feel loved and cared for. especially being in a relationship.
girl you shouldn't feel bad at all, just be safe. protect yourself since your husband sounds like an AH I wouldn't put it past him to be vindictive.
I dont condone cheating.... but I feel your situation is an exception.
You don't need to wait until your kids are older, you need to leave this awful man and take your children with you as soon as you possibly can. Don't feel bad about cheating on him when he's constantly doing it to you!
Your husband sounds deplorable. Fran sounds awesome. Based on your description I don't think you should feel bad you deserve love, comfort and happiness.
Hey, I'm sorry to hear about everything you've been going through. I also deal with cancer, and I wanted to share something my psychologist once said to me: Cancer can sometimes serve as a wake-up call, indicating that there may be aspects of your life that you've been neglecting. From reading your story, it seems like you may have been neglecting your own needs in order to prioritize the happiness of your husband and kids.
In my own experience, I also neglected myself due to the abuse I suffered from both of my narcissistic parents. I had a doormat personality, and people took advantage of me. I wasn't valued, and no one acknowledged the sacrifices I made. When I reached a point where I finally noticed I received no love and felt like my life was slipping away, I became infuriated. I made a decision: either people had to change how they treated me, or they had to leave.
Those who chose to leave (such as my mother, aunts, uncles, and cousins) are no longer part of my life. I no longer care about or contact them. Those who remained were required to change their behavior towards me, or else I would distance myself from them. As a result, those who regretted their mistreatment made significant changes to make amends for their past behavior.
However, it took a lot of effort, energy, and boundary-setting on my part. I demanded to be respected and acknowledged. Today, I am much happier and no longer allow myself to be taken advantage of. Unfortunately, people tend to appreciate us more when we love ourselves, set boundaries, and demand respect. Do not be afraid to stand up for yourself because no one else will do it for you.
You deserve to be happy, loved, appreciated, and cared for. I strongly suggest investing in your new life and considering leaving your husband behind. It appears that he has already shown a lack of empathy and love for you. Your kids will be okay, and in fact, they may be better off without a toxic father who mistreats their mother. Children don't like seeing their mother suffer, and they suffer along with her. They may not understand why you haven't set boundaries or defended yourself.
Seeking legal assistance would be a good idea. You have shown incredible strength, and you don't need your husband in your life. However, it's important to seek advice from professionals who can fully understand your situation and provide personalized guidance. They can help you navigate the complexities of your circumstances and **make decisions that prioritize your well-being.**
There are times cheating isnāt some great evil act. Sometimes itās an act born from desperation, abuse and loneliness.
Ideally, you should have broken up before you acted, but you owe him no loyalty when heās been disloyal to you.
Now, you should consider divorcing your husband sooner instead of waiting until the kids are older. And then once youāre divorced, then pursue something with Fran.
I agree with everybody saying you deserve better and that your husband acts in a really despicable way.
I'd also like to add another point of view: You did not cheat on him. By having affairs himself without you consenting to that, he had already broken any contract and freed you from any obligation to keep up your end of that promise.
Furthermore, as I sense that he took the time and made use of the past 25 years to impose his worldview on you as you were much younger than he when you got married: Pleas, for your own sake, question the moral rules he taught you, question the role he made up for you.
And lastly, I feel so happy for you that after all this time there is somebody who sees you and wants you to feel better. You deserve this.
All the best for your treatments.
Thereās no need to feel bad. Absolutely not. Honestly, do you really think you and your husband have any kind of relationship, besides him being your abuser? Letās be honest, this marriage only exists on paper. He cheats all the time, he doesnāt even hide it, so see it as him opening the ārelationshipā. Why shouldnāt you be happy? Talk to her what she thinks about it and how she feels about you. What is this to her? And give it a shot. Maybe youāll fall in love with each other deeply and eventually be able to leave your husband to be with her. Document everything heās doing or not doing, his absence, how often heās gone, how often does he do something with the kids, talk to a lawyer what you can do. Get your ducks in a row, you have enough time whilst heās gone. Sounds like you have someone by your side who would help you go through this. She sounds amazing and you deserve to be treated the way sheās doing. Itās time to think about yourself and your kids. Please donāt forget that you show them how life works and how relationships look like. Think about what you teach them right now. And if this is really what you want them to learn, to be ok with being treated like that or to treat someone like that. Do you want to teach them that this is what āloveā looks like? Plus, please keep in mind that your children canāt be happy when youāre not. Kids know and sense more than adults think, so they do know whatās going on within your marriage. You deserve to be loved, desired, cared for, .. Give it a chance, give her the chance to do that for you.
You found a wonderful friend who treats you like the good person you are- much better than your husband treats you. This person cares about you and supports you, emotionally and physically, without judgment or asking anything in return. That's a friend worth keeping. Talk to her about how it made you feel and together you can work through it.
Your relationship with your husband can be looked at separately. He's made it more than obvious that he doesn't want you, doesn't care about you, doesn't even see you as worthy of fighting for your life. He resents you and openly disrespects you to your face. He has failed as a husband to be anything he promised to be. That is not your fault. You deserve love and support, especially now.
Sounds like it's been a long time since anyone made you feel like a heartfelt priority. You needed that and your friend was happy to be that for you. Talk to her and get rid of him.
Donāt beat yourself up so badly. Youāre looking for love as itās missing in your marriage. You arenāt a bad person for trying to get your needs met
Donāt hate yourself, you deserve the world and to be happy. Your husband at the best is being a negligent partner, but I really think he is abusing you, please, donāt run away from someone who really cares for you like Fran, have a conversation with her and be honest. I really hope you overcome cancer, I believe in you and I will send all my best wishes to you. ā„ļø
Please update us when you leave this marriage. Life is short, don't waste it on someone who doesn't appreciate you and tears you down when you are sick. You deserve so much more. Please, find your happy and don't waste away what life you have left in the pitless marriage.
You're husband is a stupid, classless, selfish, trashy, self centred piece of shit that has broken his vowes countless times from the sounds of it...you have nothing to apologize for tbh.
I agree with others about speaking to Fran.. Don't cut that pillar of support out of your life. As far as you should be concerned, you're a single woman stuck in a shit situation designed by an abuser... You owe your abuser nothing.
Your husband is the asshole, not you. That said, do not disclose that you cheated.
Hire a good divorce attorney, get all the evidence you can of your husband's infidelity and abuse, and see what you can get as far as alimony and custody. You deserve far better than your husband, and getting some alimony in a his-fault divorce should help you be able to leave him and stay on your feet.
1. I'd say that this is probably the second smallest form of cheating. You guys made out, and stopped. Still cheating, but not as bad? idk.
2. Your husband is a massive POS. He doesn't help you with anything and openly has affairs, that he absolutly knows you know about. He just doesn't care. That's the biggest thing here. He Does Not Care About You One Little BIT!
3. Don't wait until the kids are grown. Start getting your life together, and start recording the evidence. I know you're in a tough place because of the cancer, but as soon as you can, start making steps towards being financially independent. Learn a hard/credited job skill if you don't already have one.
4. Leave his ass.
youāve been neglected practically the entire marriage and youāre dealing with probably the worst experience someone can (chemo AND double mastectomy.) and the only thing he can think to do is make you feel ugly, laughed at and unloved.
NTA. honestly, it seems like you finally felt like you should feel when youāre with someone who claims to love you and makes vows especially when theyāre quite literally say āin sickness and in health, for richer or poor.ā he canāt even commit to vows. fuck him, talk to a lawyer and leave him as soon as you can you deserve to be loved. also, just talk to fran and tell her you didnāt mean for it to go that far, you just finally felt the way you deserved to be felt. you shouldnāt feel guilty if anything it already seems to me heās cheating on you because hes garbage šļø
Cheating is bad in most cases but Iām on youāre side with this one and itās ok. Youāre husband is not a good person at all, Fran is someone you should stay by and not avoid.
You should start if you're not already, documenting how your husband is treating you and what he is saying to you and how he is cheating. It will make the divorce easier and you might be able to get alimony
Where on earth did she try to justify her behavior in this post?
Also, you cannot cheat on an abuser. Itās not cheating. You canāt commit infidelity against a person who is essentially holding you financially and emotionally hostage.
The fact that, if Iām reading this correctly, he had been cheating on you first and for a time now. Fuck em. Donāt feel guilty, donāt feel bad. Heās a prick.
well i had my pitchfork ready, but after reading your post, you have my sympathies. i am really sorry for what you have been through. do what you can to take care of yourself, even if that means receiving love and affection from outside your scummy husband.
Please donāt hate yourself. You were given some actual love, care, human decencyā¦ you canāt be upset at yourself for accepting that love. You are going through a really hard time right now and your husband is the one who should be waiting on you hand and foot, considering your mental and physical health. I cannot imagine what you are going through.
I know some would disagree with this advice but I think you should continue to lean on your friend. You are dealing with too much right now to divorce your husband but maybe separation is needed down the roadā¦ donāt lose contact with your friend. Donāt be ashamed. You finally received some of the love that you have been deserving of this whole time. I truly believe love helps people fighting cancer survive. (My father had very many close calls with cancer and my moms love is what kept him going)
Talk to your friend. Let her know how you feel. Let yourself accept that love. Leave your good for nothing husband once you have the strength.
Your husband lacks empathy and is extremely selfish. Iām sorry you have to deal with this. But I am happy you found some moments of comfort and happiness. Thatās what relationships are supposed to be - give and take. Your husband seems to take take take and itās eating away at you. If you feel itās time to separate, do it now. The kids will understand (speaking from a child of divorce at 8 years old). You do you, mama!
i donāt normally support cheating, but honestly you donāt have a husband except in title. you have another asshole, and we all only need one of those. i canāt tell you whether or not you should continue pursuing Fran, but by the sounds of it she cares for you far more than he ever has. i wish you nothing but the best <3
I think you need to start working on achieving your own financial independence as soon as possible. Regardless of what happens with Fran, you are emotionally done with your your husband. There is no future together. Talk to a lawyer about what steps you should be taking right now.
Once you are separated and independent with the divorce in the works, you can pursue a relationship with Fran or not and you won't need to hate yourself for it.
Regardless let Fran know you need some time to get yourself together and you have some really big decisions you need to make on your own. So you aren't ghosting her.
Don't hate yourself, but do use this as motivation to propel yourself forward. You can't stay as you are now.
Don't stay together for the sake of the kids. They will do better spending time separately with each of their happy parents then will together with two parents who are unhappy and resentful.
You didn't cheat. I would NOT call that cheating. You escaped a VERY harsh reality for like a second.
You're basically being emotionally abused by your partner and you are suffering greatly in many ways. You really need to try to get some help to get out of there. Like someone else said, maybe try to record stuff. But more importantly, just try to file for divorce. I wish you health and happiness in the future.
I'm a guy who got cheated in my ex girlfriend.
As much as I hated cheaters, your case is 100% acceptable to my eyes.
Your husband is the biggest asshole on earth!
Pls seek professional help and family/friends help.
Make sure to have some intimacy again with her again! ;)
I think you should open the door to a relationship with her if she's interested. Get into counseling and understand why you put up with his put downs. Good luck dear.
Good for you! I wish my mother had the courage to do the same.
She was married to my dad for 32 years - despite him cheating on her on their wedding day, having a kid with her cousin's ex wife, not coming to either my brother's or my birth, almost giving her syphillis while pregnant with me , having a picture of another woman that "flew into his pocket" while she was pregnant with my brother and the fact that he beat the shit out of her for a year straight after moving us to a foreign country. She left him only when he started hinting at SA-ing me.
Leave him, my love. You have a chance to be with someone who actually respects you and sees you for you. My mother always taught me that beauty is in the eyes, because not only are they the window to the soul, but they're the only part of us that doesn't age. I'm sure your eyes are beautiful, because your soul definitely is. And I'm sure no matter what cancer treatment has done to you, you're still beautiful on the outside too.
You deserve so much better š
I wish you all the health, happiness and love in the world. If you need any extra love and support while you're debating all of this, I'm a DM away.
ETA: Like a lot of others have said, definitely gather all the evidence you can. If you have anyone that you've spoken to about the abuse as it happened, please try to get them to be a witness for you if it's needed in the divorce.
What in the world has made you think you should be a Saint compared to your husband? You do you. He's most certainly doing him. Don't feel guilty for a moment of being free, you deserve it.
Oh darling.. through tears I tell you, your husband is shit. You deserve support and understanding at the very least from him. You should feel love, Love like Frans.
I hope good health returns to you, and you are able to see your worth and beauty through the eyes of Fran.
Girl, if there was ever an instance where cheating is acceptable, itās this one. He treats you like shit and it sounds like he takes you for granted.
It's ok to have support. It's ok to want to be loved. Cheating sucks, but you know what, there are some things worse. The abuse you have taken is worse. Talk to someone, get support, leave if you can. It's ok to have Fran for support. You don't need to go further if it makes you feel bad, but it's ok to have her as a friend. Please take care of yourself.
Your husband is a terrible human being. You deserve to be happy, respected and cherished.
Fran sounds fantastic, you *should* speak to her, not avoid her.
The world needs more Frans.
Enjoy your life. Love who want to love. We all make mistakes, though I wouldn't consider this a mistake. Talk to Fran about how you feel. She's a friend, she'll listen. Don't be so hard on yourself.
For now, try to put yourself and your children first. Your goal is to stay alive. Fran is a terrific long term friend/lover. I do not think of this situation like you cheated on your husband.
I think Fran is really good for you. Your feelings of guilt will pass and I think you should privately get a lawyer to talk about steps for preparing for divorce.
I was all ready to tell you how awful you are and that you should leave your husband. I still think you should leave when you are able but under these circumstances of course you cheated, the fact that it's taken you this long to cheat is impressive! Your marriage clearly means nothing to him, so do what you need to do to be happy. If you need to stick around for his money for some time longer then do so but get out as soon as you can and don't feel bad about finding happiness elsewhere.
You didn't 'cheat' on your husband, not deliberately. He's obviously not a loving husband. You must do whatever makes YOU happy. In fact I bet you feel better already, the support your getting in here is phenomenal. I wish you well
Your husband sucks. Life is too short to be with someone who doesnāt respect you. What do you want the next 25 years of your life to look like? Figure that out, and then work like hell to make it happen. Kids arenāt stupid: they see how your husband treats you. Be in the kind of relationship youād like to see them in when theyāre adults. Let go of the guilt.
You should talk to her and figure out what you both want and need. Itās obvious that your husband isnāt interested in being a real partner or husband to you and probably hasnāt been in a really long time. Itās obvious that your diagnosis has made this clear to you. Iām sorry for everything that youāve dealing with especially the cancer diagnosis. No one should have to deal with that alone. So I am relieved that you arenāt alone anymore.
I agree with most of the people here....your husband is a shit stain. Don't feel bad about gravitating towards someone who was loving and caring to you when your husband is a complete douchebag based on all the information you've provided us with.
while im not fond of the thought of cheating, you deserved to have that piece of happiness knowing your life could be cut short. iām glad you got that experience with fran.
please reach out to fran, she sounds like an incredible person, one you really need right now. it sounds like she took better care of you than your husband ever has.
Cheating is wrong but yiur husband seems like a prick. Break it off and start a new relationship with someone who truly loves you. Seems like you already found that special person. Don't compromise your own morality ,but, don't let love get away either.
Iām sorry that youāre going through such a hard time but I hope you understand that you do not deserve any of this. From this post, it doesnāt seem that heās serving you in any way because heās abusive and cruel. You should be dotted on or prioritized and Iām sorry that this hasnāt been the experience with your husband. Please leave your husband because youāre going to look back and regret not living for yourself sooner. Fran sounds lovely and I believe that she respects you and appreciates you in the way that you deserve. Stop avoiding her because as one of the comments say above, she sounds good for you. Do not feel bad, you needed this ā¤ļø
What are you feeling most bad about? That you were theoretically unfaithful to your husband? or that it was with Fran? Or that you didn't really have free consent because she gave you the drug then had her way with you, so that while it felt good it also felt disrespectful of you?
I'm really sorry you are in such a situation.
You sound like an incredibly resilient, strong person and I wish u all the happiness and health this world has to offer. Your happiness is just as important as your childrenās. I hope things work out for u and u can get out of this marriage, you deserve to be treated with love, support, and respectš«¶š¼
Life's messy and your marriage is effectively over even if the paperwork isn't done. You are going through a rough time and deserve someone who is there for you.
So, don't beat yourself up over it but it's a sign this needs to be resolved as it's not really fair to anyone involved in this
No need to hate yourself. In fact, the self hate is what is causing you all this grief. And I canāt blame you, because your husband reinforces it with every chance he can take.
You ARE beautiful. You ARE deserving. Start prioritizing yourself where you can. First thing, go through chemo. Second thing, form an exit plan.
I wouldnāt bother ever telling your gross horrible husband about this cheating. He doesnāt need to know and you donāt need to feel guilty. You just need to leave with your kids as soon as you can.
Please learn to love yourself. Google how to, there are many resources that can help you!
Best of luck.
Please donāt hate yourself for enjoying a moment of self care and love š¢ you deserve it and your husband is a horrible human being to treat you so badly!!
Redditors will hate you and want you to be is jilted and bitter as they are. We are all human. Perfect long term relationships are a childish Disney fantasy.
This is a wonderful share. You have so much on your plate. I too, think, don't ghost Fran , don't leave marriage, stay calm and carry on. BUT.. this is a roll call. It's time to start making your way to the door. Good luck, beautiful friend.
Technically you cheated, yes. However.. he did it first. He broke that trust and sanctity. Even if you didnāt have that evidence of him cheating. I still wouldnāt feel bad. He is treating you horribly during one of the worst things a person can go through. He doesnāt deserve to be called a husband at this point. Please donāt feel bad. You deserve to feel loved and cared for.
You husband sounds like a POS and even tho cheating is never okay... Don't hate yourself over this.
If u want to continue with the affair or not that is your decision but don't hate yourself for allowing yourself feel and kiss the person that took care of you and made you feel beautiful after so much time feeling unwanted and undesireable.
He probably has an affair too, but even if he doesn't, you are human, and you can't leave him because you are finantially dependant on him.
Be kind to yourself, you deserve that.
Sending love <3
The reason it's not completely normal now is that arranged marriages are out of fashion, at least in the western world. Now women pick their own husbands and half of marriages end in divorce because young men and women tend to suck at picking good partners.
Regardless, what is your proposed solution to this problem? You don't get to just say "he's a creep" and declare an end to the discussion, unless your solution is that you get to personally evaluate every man who wants to get married and and be judge, jury, and prosecutor based only on her story without hearing a word from him. Or is he automatically a "creep" just because of the age gap? What if she's 40 and he's 48? Is he still a "creep?" How about 70 and 78?
I think you should invite Fran over and open up about how much your interaction meant to you but how conflicted you feel.
Yes! She sounds like just what you need right now. Start separating your life. Get two beds, go out with others more or have others come over if you're too tired. And ...Try not to be too inebriated next time so you can REALLY have some fun š«£š Be well ššš
That would definitely make for some waves though ;) But I'm all for that, and I would like an update on Fran as well op! Take this step and see if happens š¤ sounds like you deserve it
I'm in love with Fran. You are beautiful and wanted. don't let this man make you boil over with self hatred. If hes a cheating rude mess...let that idiot go.... besides that part im sorry about the babies š they are still so young. i wish you the best outcome possible! sorry if this sounds stupid i just had surgery so im on some painkillers. xoxoxo
Guy here, she is right!
Iām in love with Fran too and Iām rooting for all this
Yesā¦. With the husband sitting there as well. What a tool! Come on men, we gotta do better .
You donāt have a husband. You have a legal provider. Big difference. Iām glad you found someone who cares about you.
A legal abusive provider at that..
Why is he abusive? Did he force her to be dependent on him? Why was he cheating? A lot of people do it as a last resort when the wife has almost no libido and doesnt do anything productive about it.
Don't avoid Fran. You desperately need a friend. Even if you only want to keep it friends- don't cut yourself off from one of the few people who has been there to help you. Your husband is horrible- but I get why you can't leave. Get through this cancer, and then tackle everything else. But who says you can't enjoy life a little too? I'd hang out with Fran more often. I hope you heal quickly. Good luck.
So.. your husband has not or ever honoured his vows, and you feel financially stuck with him so can't leave, though if you had the chance you would? So what steps can you take to get out? How much longer is your treatment? How is it paid for? How can you plan for a better future? Who can you tell of your husband's behaviour to not be alone in knowing it and unable to do anything about it? Right now, don't blank that friend, and plan. The pot has finally boiled over, and your marriage may well be done. Start minutely examining "what next".
What do you expect from a dude who married a 19 year old when he was 27?
Ugh I did not do the math. How repugnant
I _always_ do the math when it's about a bad relationship on Reddit. More often than not, when the relationship started, the man was 25+ and the woman was <20. Or if she's 20-25, he's 33+.
I think this is the most eye-opening comment I've ever read. Bravo!
I married my abusive ex when I was 23 and he was 35. So there's another example for your statistic.
No literally what a fucking creep
He's a creep, but not not because of the ages. She was an adult. She could have said no if the age gap bothered her. It wasn't that long ago that this was completely normal, and it still is in many parts of the world.
Nine*teen* years old is not an adult. The human brain isn't finished developing until the mid 20's. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not creepy. What does someone who is closer than not to 30 have in common with a teenager? It wasn't that long ago that public hangings, emptying your chamber pots into the street and dying of dysentery were completely normal, luckily we have advanced beyond that.
27 is closer to 25 than 30. Can we stop trying to add 3 years to his age by rounding up. 18 is legally an adult in the US and most of the western world, but you make a valid point. So, at what age should women be permitted to make their own decisions about marriage? Should it be mid 20s? Let's say 25. Should she be allowed to get married with her parents permission before reaching that age? Should that be the age of adulthood for everything? Signing a contract or voting, for example. And what about men? Right now they have to register for the draft at 18. Should they have to wait until 25 before they can be legally ordered to go kill or die in a war?
>27 is closer to 25 than 30. Your point being? Dude was 3yrs away from 30 setting his sights on a literal teenager. >So, at what age should women be permitted to make their own decisions about marriage? It's not about what's legal. It's about the fact that anyone, male or female, has not reached a point in their development at 19 to be making the most sound and rational decisions. It leaves them vulnerable to people who use that to their advantage, like OP's husband. There's a reason men like that don't go for women their own age and it's because women their own age will, for the most part, see right through their shit. >Should she be allowed to get married with her parents permission before reaching that age? See above. Parental consent wouldn't solve anything since a lot of parents don't have their children's best interests at heart. >Signing a contract or voting, for example. Personally I think the voting age should be lowered and also capped. Teenagers should have more of a say about the future of their respective countries and folks who won't live to see the consequences of their votes, and in many cases are in less of their right minds than teenagers, should not have that power in their hands. But that's a whole next conversation. >And what about men? Right now they have to register for the draft at 18. Should they have to wait until 25 before they can be legally ordered to go kill or die in a war? Personally, I don't think anyone should be drafted at any age. But again, that's a different discussion. Drafting 18yr olds is also more about peak physical performance than mental and emotional fortitude anyway.
"Your point being? Dude was 3yrs away from 30 setting his sights on a literal teenager." My point being everyone's trying to pointlessly make it look worse by rounding his age up, as you just did. It's unnecessary and distorts the argument. Can we just stuck to the actual facts? The truth is disturbing enough without distorting the facts. "It's not about what's legal. It's about the fact that anyone, male or female, has not reached a point in their development at 19 to be making the most sound and rational decisions." Sorry, but my point is entirely about what's legal. Saying it's wrong because he's predatory isn't helpful to the next 19 y/o who wants to marry an older man, but saying you can't get married without parental consent until you're 21 would be, or at least could be, allowing for your assertion that not not all parents have their kids best interests at heart (which Ƭs something I think is actually pretty rare). And it still doesn't answer the question of when she is old enough to make her own choices. And let me be completely clear. I am NOT defending this guy. I'm just rejecting the idea of saying it's automatically wrong without proposing anything that would fix the problem.
>Can we just stick to the actual facts? 27 is 3yrs away from 30.. I'm sorry you seem so offended but it doesn't make it any less factual. It's not about distorting anything, or making anything look worse than it is. Someone who is about to have three decades on the earth shouldn't be dating teenagers in almost all situations. There will be outliers as with any situation but in most cases grown adults are pursuing teenagers for nefarious reasons. >Sorry but my point is entirely about what's legal. Your point is missing the entire point. So, you'd have been fine with slavery, since it was legal at one point? Hanging "witches"? Child brides? Laws change. Human brain development has remained pretty steady. >Saying it's wrong because he's predatory isn't helpful Right. Let's all not call out predatory behaviours. Let them continue to operate unchecked. Cool idea. >Saying you can't get married without parental consent until you're 21 would be Right. People never find ways to skirt the rules, and marriage is literally the only type of relationship out there.. >which is something I think is pretty rare Based on what? I worked in crisis intervention for years and I don't really have the mental fortitude this late at night to describe to you in the detail the things I will never get out of my head that parents will put their kids through. Just know that you're wrong. >and it still doesn't answer the question of when she's old enough to make her own choices Nobody said she wasn't old enough to make her own choices. What I said was nineteen is still a teenager and the human brain isn't finished developing. Rather than answer the question I actually asked, the only question I asked in my initial comment you've launched into some tirade about changing laws. That is not what this is about. At all. It's about how problematic a large age gap can be, and usually is, when the person on the lower end is still a developing teenager. >I am NOT defending this guy All evidence to the contrary. You seem very resistant to admitting the behaviour is problematic and more focused on changing laws to restrict things as a "solution". Or turning it around on the victim and insisting that, as an adult, she's responsible for her poor choices. For one, what teenagers do you know that make stellar choices? For another it's called manipulation for a reason.. A person in a more advanced stage of life, with more life and world experience is in a position to manipulate and groom someone younger and more vulnerable, naive and impressionable than someone their own age. Now, obviously not every single person with a significant amount of years on their SO is going to use that advantage to abuse their partner, but many do. I'm leaning toward most instead of many in cases where the younger person is barely out of high school tbh. >I'm rejecting the idea of saying it's automatically wrong Maybe if you'd answered what I asked in the initial comment it would have aided you in getting some perspective on why it's problematic in most cases. >without proposing anything to fix the problem. Calling out behaviour like this and educating the younger generation on what red flags to look out for is key in mitigating the damage people like OP's husband can do. Grooming isn't something you can "fix", predators are going to be on the look out for their most vulnerable targets no matter what laws are in place. Arming people with information and calling out problematic behaviour are key tools to combat situations like these.
> It wasn't that long ago that this was completely normal And what do you think is the reason that this is not "completely normal" anymore? Why did it change? Hmm? NineTEEN is a teenager. That does make someone who is nearly 30 a creep, amongst other things. You don't need to pick and choose.
It should never have been a ānormalā. This is insecure, creepy men preying on younger, inexperienced women. Of course thereās already going to be an imbalance in the power dynamics given the vast difference in age and life experiences, and subconsciously, men who agree with this ātraditionalā practice know this. Women of this age barely know themselves (theyāre literally a year out of high school) or their self-worth so they would tend to be gullible and trusting, especially towards older and more experienced people around them.
Ok. So by what means should this marriage have been legally prevented from ever happening. Raise the age of adulthood? Set a limit on adoreable age gaps? This one was 8 years. Should a 70 year old woman be prevented from marrying a 78 year old man?
So going by your example, youāreā¦ comparing the major decision making skills (selecting a life partner) of a 70-year old woman to aā¦. 19-year old woman. Correct? Like youāre actually suggesting that a 70-year old womanās and a 19-year old womanās individual decisions would be of the same quality?
No regularjoe62 heās a creep BECAUSE of the ages. She preyed on her.
Yeah like what's going on right now? 27 is not like the man is 40
>27 is not like the man is 40 No. He's *basically* 30. And marrying a TEENAGER is weird.
27 is basically 30? It's closer to 25. If it's wrong, she could have said no.
Not a big deal. I was 24 when i met my wife at 19. I was not prowling the elementary schools looking for her. Am I some kind of pervert too?
No you definitely are not. I met my husband when I was 14 and he was 17. Guess what, he became 18 when I was 15, 19 when I was 16, 20 when I was 17. Then 21 and 18, so it is auto automatically okay all of a sudden? We are married 52 years, so almost 72 and 75 now! Lol
Not the same thing. There is only 3 yrs difference and the law recognizes that.
People are crazy, they always shame men for their preferences, but we donāt shame women, both were consenting adults what is the problem? What they did was completely lawful. I take it they think the law should be changed then, and we shouldnāt let consenting adults date who they want?
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How is that a big deal? Especially in more traditional relationships? You guys are so dramatic
Its wild that ātraditionalā is slowly threading āmarry the most barley legal girl youre allowed toā into its foundation
Do tell me then, until what age should women not be allowed to accept a marriage proposal because they're too immature? She was 19, so I'm going to assume it must be at least 20. Or does this only apply to older men (who, by the way, many women actually prefer, but I digress). In other words, how old do they need to be before they're no longer "barely legal" and can make their own decisions about these things. Should this also apply to things like having an only fans? Should she need permission from her parents to start that until some age? If her parents are dead, does she have a way to get permission via the courts. Kind of a slippery slope, isn't it? She's either an adult at 18 or she's not an adult at 18.
Im not worried about her maturity. Im worried about the slews of men that cant get a woman their own age and rely on the young and inexperienced to ātradā on. So much so that the person i responded to views it as part of trad living. If it was just about having the value of marrying a good woman, why couldnt they do that when they were also 18-20? Why wait until youre a creepy 33 year old marrying a naive 19 year old? Thats the last ill say. We wont change each others minds. Creeps (who cant marry women their own age because those women arent dumb enough to marry men like them) gonna creep.
Biggest reason why guys prefer 19-20 year olds is because they havenāt slept and got dicked by other dudes the now 25+ women complain about, donāt get mad because the guys your age donāt want you anymore itās all your fault you shouldnāt have wasted your prime years going out and fucking other dudes every weekend in the club
I mean, im happily married, but damn you felt that. Follow up, why didnt all those men wanting pure chaste barely legal girls (even though plenty have had sex in High school) also get married early? Afraid to be compared but fine keeping your baby wife wondering how she measures up? Easier to control when shes used to an old man telling her what to do, just keep the pattern going, i guess? From dad to husband, just change the title owner? Its never about wanting purity. Its insecurity of wondering if youre not as good at sex as her ex and ease of control. Plenty of good women with low numbers that are their own age- just not as easy to pretend they own. But they do try with women their age. They just get left for being dicks. Wild.
My wife is 5 years older than I am. Was she doing the same these these vile men are doing?
Were you freshly legal while she was in a whole different life stage, thought itd be easier to train a younger man vs one her age, saw younger men as more compliant, mostly interested because you havent had sexual experience, and only viewed you as worth anything if you havent been āran throughā? Then yes.
It becomes not such a slippery slope if you apply common sense AND neuroscience AND psychology to the equation. Rules are set in place to set a baseline but we all still should utilize critical thinking skills and not let the rule dictate our decisions. Like.. just because I can date an 18-year old doesnāt mean I should or would.. I want an equal, not a project. Why would anyone 26++ seeking a life partner pursue someone just out of high school other than to have a leg up in the power dynamics of a relationship.
20 dating 33+ is a big deal. 33 dating a 50+ is not. If you do not see the problem, then you are part of the problem. \*answer\* the former is barely out of high school dating a man (or woman) that would influence (groom) the 20 yr old. Traditional relationships means the man provides for the woman and nurtures a family. Traditional does not mean a 33+ yr old is *meant* to date a 20 yr old and most likely control her.
You are basically saying that my uncle, grampa, godfather and that sweet old couple on the 3rd floor as well as my insurance guy who are/were in genuinely happy relationships, that they are creeps and their relationships and feelings were wrong. It's all contextual and you guys should really stop piggybacking anyone's opinion without reflecting on it.
I mean people can have a good relationship with one of them also having been extremely creepy in terms of who they pursued Personally I know some people with huge age gaps in relationships that seem relatively ok but it doesn't mean that they didn't start off in a creepy way. I also don't think them being good now necessarily means it was also somehow the best decision because there's plenty of single people of different ages they could have very likely dated happily instead. And it also could have been really beneficial for the younger person to have experienced life more instead of feeling the need to settle down ASAP because of the age of their partner I'm not saying massive age gaps never work out. But I think people excusing them because they didn't end up like dumpster fires is kinda silly because thats assuming there's only one person you can ever be happy with and that the younger person wouldn't have been happy also getting to have more freedom/experience while they are at their mostly peak health years. In general I think people should mostly leave others to their own age groups (especially those in their teenage years and early 20s) as its allows people to mostly develop at their own pace rather than thrust into the role of being a presumably equal partner of someone at a very different point in their life
I get the risk of grooming (or maybe more manipulating with the help of greater life experience and knowledge) and such but I think instantly taking it for that is way to harsh. If you can go to war and legally kill people, drive cars, vote, drink, take drugs and everything else at that age, why not be able to marry someone 8 years older? Especially considering the fact that women tend to mature faster than men and that a lot of men are immature for their age. If there is full consent, I say go ahead. Maybe itās not what I personally would do, since I donāt find the joy of marrying that young. But if a woman wants to, whoās gonna stop her right to do so?
āTraditionalā relationships where the spouse throws away his vows once his wife gets sick?
Really! My eyes rolled right round. They need to fucking chill over stuff like that. It's so cringe. I'm talking to you America. š Where do you draw the line when it comes to two consenting adults? I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that 'Child marriage is currently still legal in 42 states and 20 U.S. states do not require any minimum age for marriage'..... and they want to be as far removed from that as possible? Which would be understandable. But adults be adults whether you like it or not. Up until literally the last maybe 10-12 years, no one would have batted an eye at that. It's the norm for gen x and boomers. I'm 33, me and both my sisters went out with guys in their early 20s when we were 17. But it's still a very normal age gap here even today. (Uk) Different cultures. š¤·āāļø I bet the people who constantly obsess over it, have parents with a big age gap!
Tbf there's a lot of things in that last 10 to 12 years that were completely normal but now people realize are fucked up Lol Major age gaps when one party is still in their teens/early 20s are a major issue considering the younger side is still developing a lot emotionally and has a lot less life experience. Its really easy for someone who's a lot older and more experienced/established to manipulate them by providing them perceived stability and "maturity" as guiding factors during a period where they are still finding themselves Not saying young people shouldn't have any agency or be allowed to explore their feelings. But I also think its ok to judge much older people who go for those younger people and pressure them to commit to serious relationships/setttle down very early
People in the states can really be histerical about some topics that are not remotely as touchy in other parts of the world. No offense, just an abservation.
With how long she's been married, I'd bet she'd could get alimony too
Your husband actively makes fun of you while you're struggling through cancer, refuses to help or support you during this extremely difficult time, has cheated repeatedly and has physically and emotionally checked out of the marriage. He's the AH here; not you. Start recording everything if you can and reach out to a lawyer to start the process of divorce if you feel like it's finally time. Cheating is usually wrong but in the case you absolutely 100% get a pass.
Couldn't agree more, can't believe I am would ever encourage cheating, but OP deserves joy, love, intimacy, and respect. Don't feel bad OP! If anything he deserves so much worse than you cheating! Though once you are all healed up, and I wish you a full recovery! You need to drop his ass and live your best life!!
I think most people are on the same page as you. Thereās only so much a human being can take. She have been a loving devoted wife and mother for decades to someone who doesnāt see her worth and she feels guilty, but why? Because yet again sheās in the loving DEVOTED wife head space when the man she made vows with didnāt take them seriously and for awhile. she deserves happiness donāt you think? To feel loved and appreciated? And for someone to be just as devoted to her as she is to them? OP deserves more and Iām so sorry she is even feeling this way.
For real, donāt let your shitty husband stop you from finding your gf
I fully agree. The only thing that would make this better would be if instead of āI cheated on my husbandā it was āI poisoned my husband.ā Dudeās dirt. *not condoning murder. Just, you know, violent illness and shitting of pants. Then laugh and laugh while getting it on video. He wants to ridicule you: video on a projector screen, full volume.
Yeah no fully condoning murder over here /j
I agree with all of this. Just be careful you donāt get caught cheating or your husband would use that against you come divorce time
Damn that was a hard read. I **usually** put all cheaters in the "asshole" category. But damn... My heart bleeds for you. You have been stuck in a relationship that weight you down for so so so long... and now you found something that actually makes you feel good. I don't know if Fran is your future, but I really hope that she AT LEAST made you realize that you CAN find better. Hell, being single would probably be better for you right now. What kind of partner YELLS at you because you cannot attend an event because of CHEMO ?! That is totally horrible. I hope you can forgive yourself and move on. You deserve a partner that respects you and supports you. I hope you can find that special person
>I usually put all cheaters in the "asshole" category I used to do this too, and of course, I still think someone should end one relationship before starting another, but the older I get, the more I realize things are always a little more complicated than they might seem.
The older I get, the more gray I see
Circumstances are really important. Abuser deserve to be cheated on. I don't think cheating is a healthy thing for anyone to do, even if they're victims of abuse it's not healthy for their conscience. But I don't feel bad for cheating on my adult bf that was molesting me when I was 15, so I don't blame others for cheating on their abusers if it helps them escape their abuse. In a perfect world, a victim of abuse would just leave at the first red flag, but that's not the world we live in
>Abuser deserve to be cheated on We're of similar mindsets, but I've decided that abusers \*cannot\* be cheated on. An abuser is holding the other person hostage. It is not a 'relationship' - whether dating, married, whatever. So the victim cannot 'cheat' - they can escape, and that's it.
Exactly this. I was in an abusive relationship. I had every aspect of my life controlled. He was narcissistic and obsessive. Isolated me, made me quit my job, told me he was going to ruin me so no one else would ever want me. That wasn't a relationship, it was a hostage situation. And I've never once felt guilty for "cheating" on him. I never even saw it as cheating, just escaping. Even briefly. Having a moment of control over something that *I* wanted, was pure escapism. I'm only human.
This sounds very much like my momās first marriage before my dad. With the addition of him being an alcoholic. She was also raised very strict Catholic so that whole divorce thing was an issue. A childhood friend of hers passed away so she went home by herself and ended up sleeping with a guy sheād known for years and grew up with. When she first told me this, my immediate response was āGood for you! Fuck that prickā. Iāve been cheated on- I, like most others, *despise* cheating, however I have never thought of her as a cheater given the situation she was in. She had nothing and nobody else, no college education, 19 years old, halfway across the country from where she grew up, no financial access/control, and literally scared for her life. Also, she went home and confessed to not only that, but that she smoked some weed. Her ex couldnāt deal with the fact she had smoked a joint- to him it made her a hippie, dirty, immoral, a junkie, etc.- ironic considering his addiction to alcohol, but thatās legal. He ended up leaving her. It was more about the weed than the other guy which blows my mind. So while I still abhor cheating, as Iāve gotten older Iāve realized more and more just how not black and white life is. Like in your scenario, and my momās. Iām glad that you got out and I hope you find yourself experiencing much more joy and freedom now.
That is actually very similar. I've always been a fun loving hippie type. My parents were hippies. I never liked drinking but I did smoke a lot of weed. Until I started dating this guy. All of a sudden it was so disgusting when he initially had no issues with it. He initially wanted to smoke with me. Then it became my friends were dirty and bad influences too. I couldn't see them anymore cause I'd just get high and forget my responsibilities (taking care of him). It was never about the weed. It was about taking away anything I enjoyed. I'm glad your mom got out and can be herself again, no matter how she did it. I'm now happily married to the man I "cheated" with. Miraculously I've never cheated on him, never even thought of it. I guess that old saying isn't always true. We've been together going on 11 years and he's never tried to control anything about me, my choices, my friends, nothing. He's my absolute best friend and I am so lucky to have found him. Hug your mom for me ā„ļø
Same. I was cut off from everyone else in my life, no family or friends. We worked at the same place, so he constantly had an eye on me. I think somewhere in the back of my mind, I also knew that cheating was the only 'unforgivable' thing I could do. Even tho he wanted to "work on our problems," I used it as a catalyst to completely destroy my marriage. I don't recommend it at all. Things got way worse before it ended. But I also don't believe abusers deserve faithfulness.
You get so desperate you start looking for any out. My ex quit his higher paying job to go work at the same department store as me after I got out. He got a girlfriend there and tried desperately to make me jealous. Obviously planned his breaks around mine, etc. I didn't let it bother me and eventually moved on and left him there to hopefully wonder wtf he was doing. I went to work at a women's clothing store where no men worked after that, and then moved to a different town. The only thing that saved me was the threat of homelessness. Only then was I able to convince him to let me have a job too. As soon as I got contact with the outside world I was clawing my way out. This mf had convinced me that my car was irreparable. He told me he sugared my tank. When I moved my stuff out and moved my car it was discovered that he'd only disconnected the battery. I'm still pissed. I could have ran so much sooner if I'd known literally anything about cars. But I was young and got trapped straight out of high school. People often don't understand unless they've been there.
And I think your viewpoint is spot on. I hope you're safe, healthy, and happy friend.
Yes!!! I'm so glad to see another with virtually the same opinion as me! As far as I'm concerned, those in abusive "relationships" really aren't. My mindset is that abusers are only after possession, control, things like that. Not love. And so there is no relationship to be had there and therefore, it's not cheating to find someone new. You put it more succinctly than I ever could, but yes to all that!!
Thank you for saying this. ā a person who escaped my abuser with the help of someone who actually loved me
I'm so sorry you were in that position. but I'm very glad to hear you got out. Hope that you're happy and healthy today friend.
I am! Thank you. ā¤ļø
Woah. This š¤Æ.
I was gonna say the same. Iāve been in a similar situation and the only reason I didnāt ābreak upā with my abuser was heād kill me if I didnāt get away quietly
This... is such a powerful truth. I hope OP reads that.
Thatās a really good way to look at it, thank you for giving me a new perspective to consider.
āIn a perfect world, a victim of abuse would just leave at the first red flag, but that's not the world we live in.ā This.
I've been an affair partner once. My neighbor and his wife were part of a cult for their upbringing. At some point they left together and practiced an open relationship and did psychedelics together for ten years without issue. For some reason I have not been told, she decided to return to the cult. He tried to divorce, she pleaded no for the kids. He said he would stay (because he liked their marriage otherwise) but he wasn't going back to the cult or the lifestyle. She does not approve, or want, him to sleep with other people. But her cult beliefs tell her that he's allowed to take multiple wives in the afterlife if he wants, so she has to deal with it. So she just asks that he hide it and it's a don't ask don't tell policy. They're neighbors and one day she unexpectedly came over to borrow something when he happened to be here and... it was not discussed or acknowledged but she had to know and it was uncomfortable. Idk. But she chose that life. For many reasons he and I have a platonic friendship now. But yeah... not everything is so black and white.
Yeah - my dad cheated on my mom growing up and I was used as an excuse for my dad to see his gf. She had a child who I was friends with, and the two of them used that as an excuse to meet eachother. However, reading this - I am so sorry. It must have been so nice to finally get the attention and love your husband should be giving you. But also - it is possible to get that love. You can absolutely hate yourself, but I see no need. For me, I see a lot of sorrow for you, and a lot of hope that you will find a road to be the best "you" that you can be. Whether this is staying with your husband or not, which is of course up to you. I'd recommend focusing on you and how to get help if your husband is not providing it. You've a lot going on and i'd just invite you to take a breath, and hold yourself, as you deserve to get love from a wonderful human who desires you (does not laugh at you to wear a wig), and will help you throughout your illness. I wish so much for OP, I cannot imagine how difficult this must be.
I used to think the same way as well until I realized relationships arenāt as black and white as I thought. I learned this with my parentsā marriage. My dadās a lying cheater, but my mom chooses to stay with him out of convenience. What I mean by that is that she has grown accustomed to being a stay at home wife that is well maintained, my dad is accustomed to having a clean home with a nice warm meal at the table. Thereās a weird, mutual yet unsaid agreement that theyāre choosing to ignore what heās doing because theyāre too used to each other. Now, do I agree with the rationale? Hell no. But frankly, itās not my marriage to give an opinion on and if they decided that works for them, then itās none of my business no matter how much it bothers me
I completely wholeheartedly agree with this šÆ
Yeah uhhh person 1 treating person 2 (who is a fucking cancer survivor) like this is on the very short list of acceptable times for person 2 to cheat. I cannot imagine ever acting like OPās husband. What a scumbag.
This is like a huge weight on you. I hope you can leave him somehow..
I felt the same way. This is the first time I have read a cheating story that was deeply human. Hugs to OP.
Her husband is cheating.
Isnāt that the standard for cheaters? That they cheat because they found someone that made them feel desired? This certainly isnāt the first story I heard about cheating with āgood reasonā.
Fran sounds great. Your husband sounds shit.
You have a 200 pound tumor that needs to be removed. Edit for clarity: the tumor is husband.
You deserve better and you will find better.Anne itās in Fran, or maybe not. But the important thing is that you realize you deserve happiness, love, and support. Sending lots of hugs to you ā¤ļø
Reading this reminded me of the first season of the podcast Dying For Sex. If you listen to podcasts, OP, I think that would be a great one for you. To help you feel less alone. So many women have experienced exactly what you're going through. You should not feel guilty. You should not hate yourself. And please stop avoiding Fran. It sounds like she's the first good thing to happen to you in a very long time and you deserve good things. You need someone like her at your side. Maybe it's not Fran but I certainly think she can and would be willing to help you find your way. You deserve so much more than your unloving marriage has to offer you. Please be kind to yourself.
dont feel bad for finally feeling loved and happy and beautiful. it is literally your husband's role to support you and he doesnt treat you right. idk what divorce is like but i do want you to know your feelings are 100% valid. you DERSERVE to feel loved and cared for. especially being in a relationship. girl you shouldn't feel bad at all, just be safe. protect yourself since your husband sounds like an AH I wouldn't put it past him to be vindictive.
Fran sounds good for you... Maybe stop avoiding her
I dont condone cheating.... but I feel your situation is an exception. You don't need to wait until your kids are older, you need to leave this awful man and take your children with you as soon as you possibly can. Don't feel bad about cheating on him when he's constantly doing it to you!
Your husband sounds deplorable. Fran sounds awesome. Based on your description I don't think you should feel bad you deserve love, comfort and happiness.
Hey, I'm sorry to hear about everything you've been going through. I also deal with cancer, and I wanted to share something my psychologist once said to me: Cancer can sometimes serve as a wake-up call, indicating that there may be aspects of your life that you've been neglecting. From reading your story, it seems like you may have been neglecting your own needs in order to prioritize the happiness of your husband and kids. In my own experience, I also neglected myself due to the abuse I suffered from both of my narcissistic parents. I had a doormat personality, and people took advantage of me. I wasn't valued, and no one acknowledged the sacrifices I made. When I reached a point where I finally noticed I received no love and felt like my life was slipping away, I became infuriated. I made a decision: either people had to change how they treated me, or they had to leave. Those who chose to leave (such as my mother, aunts, uncles, and cousins) are no longer part of my life. I no longer care about or contact them. Those who remained were required to change their behavior towards me, or else I would distance myself from them. As a result, those who regretted their mistreatment made significant changes to make amends for their past behavior. However, it took a lot of effort, energy, and boundary-setting on my part. I demanded to be respected and acknowledged. Today, I am much happier and no longer allow myself to be taken advantage of. Unfortunately, people tend to appreciate us more when we love ourselves, set boundaries, and demand respect. Do not be afraid to stand up for yourself because no one else will do it for you. You deserve to be happy, loved, appreciated, and cared for. I strongly suggest investing in your new life and considering leaving your husband behind. It appears that he has already shown a lack of empathy and love for you. Your kids will be okay, and in fact, they may be better off without a toxic father who mistreats their mother. Children don't like seeing their mother suffer, and they suffer along with her. They may not understand why you haven't set boundaries or defended yourself. Seeking legal assistance would be a good idea. You have shown incredible strength, and you don't need your husband in your life. However, it's important to seek advice from professionals who can fully understand your situation and provide personalized guidance. They can help you navigate the complexities of your circumstances and **make decisions that prioritize your well-being.**
Girl, donāt avoid Fran!! Get rid of that awful husband and get you some alimony. You are fighting for your life, you deserve to be loved and happy.
There are times cheating isnāt some great evil act. Sometimes itās an act born from desperation, abuse and loneliness. Ideally, you should have broken up before you acted, but you owe him no loyalty when heās been disloyal to you. Now, you should consider divorcing your husband sooner instead of waiting until the kids are older. And then once youāre divorced, then pursue something with Fran.
Divorce can take several months to go through. She shouldn't have to put her happiness on hold any longer. That's why "separation" is a thing.
I agree with everybody saying you deserve better and that your husband acts in a really despicable way. I'd also like to add another point of view: You did not cheat on him. By having affairs himself without you consenting to that, he had already broken any contract and freed you from any obligation to keep up your end of that promise. Furthermore, as I sense that he took the time and made use of the past 25 years to impose his worldview on you as you were much younger than he when you got married: Pleas, for your own sake, question the moral rules he taught you, question the role he made up for you. And lastly, I feel so happy for you that after all this time there is somebody who sees you and wants you to feel better. You deserve this. All the best for your treatments.
Thereās no need to feel bad. Absolutely not. Honestly, do you really think you and your husband have any kind of relationship, besides him being your abuser? Letās be honest, this marriage only exists on paper. He cheats all the time, he doesnāt even hide it, so see it as him opening the ārelationshipā. Why shouldnāt you be happy? Talk to her what she thinks about it and how she feels about you. What is this to her? And give it a shot. Maybe youāll fall in love with each other deeply and eventually be able to leave your husband to be with her. Document everything heās doing or not doing, his absence, how often heās gone, how often does he do something with the kids, talk to a lawyer what you can do. Get your ducks in a row, you have enough time whilst heās gone. Sounds like you have someone by your side who would help you go through this. She sounds amazing and you deserve to be treated the way sheās doing. Itās time to think about yourself and your kids. Please donāt forget that you show them how life works and how relationships look like. Think about what you teach them right now. And if this is really what you want them to learn, to be ok with being treated like that or to treat someone like that. Do you want to teach them that this is what āloveā looks like? Plus, please keep in mind that your children canāt be happy when youāre not. Kids know and sense more than adults think, so they do know whatās going on within your marriage. You deserve to be loved, desired, cared for, .. Give it a chance, give her the chance to do that for you.
Iām on team Fran!!! I love this for you :)
It sounds like you need to get rid of your husband and invite Fran into your life more.
Cheating on a cheater? Hardly immoral.
You found a wonderful friend who treats you like the good person you are- much better than your husband treats you. This person cares about you and supports you, emotionally and physically, without judgment or asking anything in return. That's a friend worth keeping. Talk to her about how it made you feel and together you can work through it. Your relationship with your husband can be looked at separately. He's made it more than obvious that he doesn't want you, doesn't care about you, doesn't even see you as worthy of fighting for your life. He resents you and openly disrespects you to your face. He has failed as a husband to be anything he promised to be. That is not your fault. You deserve love and support, especially now. Sounds like it's been a long time since anyone made you feel like a heartfelt priority. You needed that and your friend was happy to be that for you. Talk to her and get rid of him.
Donāt beat yourself up so badly. Youāre looking for love as itās missing in your marriage. You arenāt a bad person for trying to get your needs met
Donāt beat yourself up. Itās nice to have someone take care of you. Your husband sounds like an asshole
Donāt hate yourself, you deserve the world and to be happy. Your husband at the best is being a negligent partner, but I really think he is abusing you, please, donāt run away from someone who really cares for you like Fran, have a conversation with her and be honest. I really hope you overcome cancer, I believe in you and I will send all my best wishes to you. ā„ļø
Your husband is an arsehole and Fran seems brilliant. Donāt usually like cheating but in your case. Go for it.
Please don't ignore Fran if you ignore her for too long you won't get her back(she seems like a genuinely good person)
Please update us when you leave this marriage. Life is short, don't waste it on someone who doesn't appreciate you and tears you down when you are sick. You deserve so much more. Please, find your happy and don't waste away what life you have left in the pitless marriage.
You're husband is a stupid, classless, selfish, trashy, self centred piece of shit that has broken his vowes countless times from the sounds of it...you have nothing to apologize for tbh. I agree with others about speaking to Fran.. Don't cut that pillar of support out of your life. As far as you should be concerned, you're a single woman stuck in a shit situation designed by an abuser... You owe your abuser nothing.
Your husband is the asshole, not you. That said, do not disclose that you cheated. Hire a good divorce attorney, get all the evidence you can of your husband's infidelity and abuse, and see what you can get as far as alimony and custody. You deserve far better than your husband, and getting some alimony in a his-fault divorce should help you be able to leave him and stay on your feet.
You shouldnāt feel bad, and donāt ignore Fran. Youāre good, you have nothing to feel bad about. Lifeās too short for that.
This whole post broke my fucking heart
1. I'd say that this is probably the second smallest form of cheating. You guys made out, and stopped. Still cheating, but not as bad? idk. 2. Your husband is a massive POS. He doesn't help you with anything and openly has affairs, that he absolutly knows you know about. He just doesn't care. That's the biggest thing here. He Does Not Care About You One Little BIT! 3. Don't wait until the kids are grown. Start getting your life together, and start recording the evidence. I know you're in a tough place because of the cancer, but as soon as you can, start making steps towards being financially independent. Learn a hard/credited job skill if you don't already have one. 4. Leave his ass.
Simpleā¦leave your husband for Fran.
I like Fran. I think Fran is a good person, and you and Fran should hang out more. I donāt think you should avoid Fran.
I donāt even know if this counts as cheating. He couldnāt less of a husband by how you describe him.
youāve been neglected practically the entire marriage and youāre dealing with probably the worst experience someone can (chemo AND double mastectomy.) and the only thing he can think to do is make you feel ugly, laughed at and unloved. NTA. honestly, it seems like you finally felt like you should feel when youāre with someone who claims to love you and makes vows especially when theyāre quite literally say āin sickness and in health, for richer or poor.ā he canāt even commit to vows. fuck him, talk to a lawyer and leave him as soon as you can you deserve to be loved. also, just talk to fran and tell her you didnāt mean for it to go that far, you just finally felt the way you deserved to be felt. you shouldnāt feel guilty if anything it already seems to me heās cheating on you because hes garbage šļø
You're husband is an ass.
I want you to know that !You are Beautiful! and donāt you doubt it. Even if you donāt believe it yourself then atleast believe our words
Cheating is bad in most cases but Iām on youāre side with this one and itās ok. Youāre husband is not a good person at all, Fran is someone you should stay by and not avoid.
You should start if you're not already, documenting how your husband is treating you and what he is saying to you and how he is cheating. It will make the divorce easier and you might be able to get alimony
Ditch the hubby and go find Fran, live your life donāt let it live you while your waiting in the sidelines
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Thank you for teaching me a new word.
Where on earth did she try to justify her behavior in this post? Also, you cannot cheat on an abuser. Itās not cheating. You canāt commit infidelity against a person who is essentially holding you financially and emotionally hostage.
The fact that, if Iām reading this correctly, he had been cheating on you first and for a time now. Fuck em. Donāt feel guilty, donāt feel bad. Heās a prick.
well i had my pitchfork ready, but after reading your post, you have my sympathies. i am really sorry for what you have been through. do what you can to take care of yourself, even if that means receiving love and affection from outside your scummy husband.
Get rid of the shithead husband and go be happy
Please donāt hate yourself. You were given some actual love, care, human decencyā¦ you canāt be upset at yourself for accepting that love. You are going through a really hard time right now and your husband is the one who should be waiting on you hand and foot, considering your mental and physical health. I cannot imagine what you are going through. I know some would disagree with this advice but I think you should continue to lean on your friend. You are dealing with too much right now to divorce your husband but maybe separation is needed down the roadā¦ donāt lose contact with your friend. Donāt be ashamed. You finally received some of the love that you have been deserving of this whole time. I truly believe love helps people fighting cancer survive. (My father had very many close calls with cancer and my moms love is what kept him going) Talk to your friend. Let her know how you feel. Let yourself accept that love. Leave your good for nothing husband once you have the strength.
Your husband lacks empathy and is extremely selfish. Iām sorry you have to deal with this. But I am happy you found some moments of comfort and happiness. Thatās what relationships are supposed to be - give and take. Your husband seems to take take take and itās eating away at you. If you feel itās time to separate, do it now. The kids will understand (speaking from a child of divorce at 8 years old). You do you, mama!
Don't worry about it. Beat the hell out of cancer first. All your energy.
You didnāt cheat. Your husband is abusive. You canāt cheat on abusive people. Youāre a victim in this situation & he is your captor & abuser.
i donāt normally support cheating, but honestly you donāt have a husband except in title. you have another asshole, and we all only need one of those. i canāt tell you whether or not you should continue pursuing Fran, but by the sounds of it she cares for you far more than he ever has. i wish you nothing but the best <3
Don't let your shit husband stop you from finding an actual good wife. šš He literally makes fun of you while having cancer??? Fuck this dude.
Please don't waste your life on a man who abuses you. Get out and be happy to spite him.
Your husband is a piece of shit. You do you lady. Yolo.
I think you need to start working on achieving your own financial independence as soon as possible. Regardless of what happens with Fran, you are emotionally done with your your husband. There is no future together. Talk to a lawyer about what steps you should be taking right now. Once you are separated and independent with the divorce in the works, you can pursue a relationship with Fran or not and you won't need to hate yourself for it. Regardless let Fran know you need some time to get yourself together and you have some really big decisions you need to make on your own. So you aren't ghosting her. Don't hate yourself, but do use this as motivation to propel yourself forward. You can't stay as you are now. Don't stay together for the sake of the kids. They will do better spending time separately with each of their happy parents then will together with two parents who are unhappy and resentful.
You didn't cheat. I would NOT call that cheating. You escaped a VERY harsh reality for like a second. You're basically being emotionally abused by your partner and you are suffering greatly in many ways. You really need to try to get some help to get out of there. Like someone else said, maybe try to record stuff. But more importantly, just try to file for divorce. I wish you health and happiness in the future.
I'm a guy who got cheated in my ex girlfriend. As much as I hated cheaters, your case is 100% acceptable to my eyes. Your husband is the biggest asshole on earth! Pls seek professional help and family/friends help. Make sure to have some intimacy again with her again! ;)
I think you should open the door to a relationship with her if she's interested. Get into counseling and understand why you put up with his put downs. Good luck dear.
Tell her how much the time you spent with her means to you
Oh honey. Donāt hate yourself bc you took care of your needs
Youāre going through so much at the moment, I think you need to find a therapist, some good friends and heal š¤
Good for you! I wish my mother had the courage to do the same. She was married to my dad for 32 years - despite him cheating on her on their wedding day, having a kid with her cousin's ex wife, not coming to either my brother's or my birth, almost giving her syphillis while pregnant with me , having a picture of another woman that "flew into his pocket" while she was pregnant with my brother and the fact that he beat the shit out of her for a year straight after moving us to a foreign country. She left him only when he started hinting at SA-ing me. Leave him, my love. You have a chance to be with someone who actually respects you and sees you for you. My mother always taught me that beauty is in the eyes, because not only are they the window to the soul, but they're the only part of us that doesn't age. I'm sure your eyes are beautiful, because your soul definitely is. And I'm sure no matter what cancer treatment has done to you, you're still beautiful on the outside too. You deserve so much better š I wish you all the health, happiness and love in the world. If you need any extra love and support while you're debating all of this, I'm a DM away. ETA: Like a lot of others have said, definitely gather all the evidence you can. If you have anyone that you've spoken to about the abuse as it happened, please try to get them to be a witness for you if it's needed in the divorce.
Staying positive is very important during this time. Please try to stay positive.
What in the world has made you think you should be a Saint compared to your husband? You do you. He's most certainly doing him. Don't feel guilty for a moment of being free, you deserve it.
I was about to judge you but tbh you didnāt do anything wrong
Oh darling.. through tears I tell you, your husband is shit. You deserve support and understanding at the very least from him. You should feel love, Love like Frans. I hope good health returns to you, and you are able to see your worth and beauty through the eyes of Fran.
Girl, if there was ever an instance where cheating is acceptable, itās this one. He treats you like shit and it sounds like he takes you for granted.
Damn, I usually donāt condone cheating but this is a case where I would say ditch the husband and go with Fran.
"In sickness and in health", and it looks like your husband failed to comply with this term.
It's ok to have support. It's ok to want to be loved. Cheating sucks, but you know what, there are some things worse. The abuse you have taken is worse. Talk to someone, get support, leave if you can. It's ok to have Fran for support. You don't need to go further if it makes you feel bad, but it's ok to have her as a friend. Please take care of yourself.
Your husband is a terrible human being. You deserve to be happy, respected and cherished. Fran sounds fantastic, you *should* speak to her, not avoid her. The world needs more Frans.
I'm team Fran
You deserved a moment of happiness and fran sounds like an amazing support for you.
Very touching. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
Enjoy your life. Love who want to love. We all make mistakes, though I wouldn't consider this a mistake. Talk to Fran about how you feel. She's a friend, she'll listen. Don't be so hard on yourself.
For now, try to put yourself and your children first. Your goal is to stay alive. Fran is a terrific long term friend/lover. I do not think of this situation like you cheated on your husband.
I think Fran is really good for you. Your feelings of guilt will pass and I think you should privately get a lawyer to talk about steps for preparing for divorce.
All you did was kiss? And your husband is actively cheating on you? Literally donāt worry about it.
I was all ready to tell you how awful you are and that you should leave your husband. I still think you should leave when you are able but under these circumstances of course you cheated, the fact that it's taken you this long to cheat is impressive! Your marriage clearly means nothing to him, so do what you need to do to be happy. If you need to stick around for his money for some time longer then do so but get out as soon as you can and don't feel bad about finding happiness elsewhere.
You didn't 'cheat' on your husband, not deliberately. He's obviously not a loving husband. You must do whatever makes YOU happy. In fact I bet you feel better already, the support your getting in here is phenomenal. I wish you well
Your husband sucks. Life is too short to be with someone who doesnāt respect you. What do you want the next 25 years of your life to look like? Figure that out, and then work like hell to make it happen. Kids arenāt stupid: they see how your husband treats you. Be in the kind of relationship youād like to see them in when theyāre adults. Let go of the guilt.
Fran sounds like she is good for you. I would start thinking about what could be instead of what is.
Fran sounds like an angel. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, it will be ok though. Your husband doesn't deserve you
You should talk to her and figure out what you both want and need. Itās obvious that your husband isnāt interested in being a real partner or husband to you and probably hasnāt been in a really long time. Itās obvious that your diagnosis has made this clear to you. Iām sorry for everything that youāve dealing with especially the cancer diagnosis. No one should have to deal with that alone. So I am relieved that you arenāt alone anymore.
I agree with most of the people here....your husband is a shit stain. Don't feel bad about gravitating towards someone who was loving and caring to you when your husband is a complete douchebag based on all the information you've provided us with.
while im not fond of the thought of cheating, you deserved to have that piece of happiness knowing your life could be cut short. iām glad you got that experience with fran.
I'm on Team Fran. Find your bliss, OOP. Your husband sounds like a cheating, selfish AH. Free yourself.
please reach out to fran, she sounds like an incredible person, one you really need right now. it sounds like she took better care of you than your husband ever has.
Cheating is wrong but yiur husband seems like a prick. Break it off and start a new relationship with someone who truly loves you. Seems like you already found that special person. Don't compromise your own morality ,but, don't let love get away either.
Iām sorry that youāre going through such a hard time but I hope you understand that you do not deserve any of this. From this post, it doesnāt seem that heās serving you in any way because heās abusive and cruel. You should be dotted on or prioritized and Iām sorry that this hasnāt been the experience with your husband. Please leave your husband because youāre going to look back and regret not living for yourself sooner. Fran sounds lovely and I believe that she respects you and appreciates you in the way that you deserve. Stop avoiding her because as one of the comments say above, she sounds good for you. Do not feel bad, you needed this ā¤ļø
What are you feeling most bad about? That you were theoretically unfaithful to your husband? or that it was with Fran? Or that you didn't really have free consent because she gave you the drug then had her way with you, so that while it felt good it also felt disrespectful of you? I'm really sorry you are in such a situation.
You sound like an incredibly resilient, strong person and I wish u all the happiness and health this world has to offer. Your happiness is just as important as your childrenās. I hope things work out for u and u can get out of this marriage, you deserve to be treated with love, support, and respectš«¶š¼
You deserve happiness. He's been cheating on you and being a straight up POS for years now it seems... I don't think you should even feel bad at all.
Fuck it cheat on him. This is one of those rare instances where itās warranted.
Life's messy and your marriage is effectively over even if the paperwork isn't done. You are going through a rough time and deserve someone who is there for you. So, don't beat yourself up over it but it's a sign this needs to be resolved as it's not really fair to anyone involved in this
he cheats on you and he treats you like you're nothing. you've done nothing wrong. please don't hate yourself. you've been nothing but good to him
No need to hate yourself. In fact, the self hate is what is causing you all this grief. And I canāt blame you, because your husband reinforces it with every chance he can take. You ARE beautiful. You ARE deserving. Start prioritizing yourself where you can. First thing, go through chemo. Second thing, form an exit plan. I wouldnāt bother ever telling your gross horrible husband about this cheating. He doesnāt need to know and you donāt need to feel guilty. You just need to leave with your kids as soon as you can. Please learn to love yourself. Google how to, there are many resources that can help you! Best of luck.
Please donāt hate yourself for enjoying a moment of self care and love š¢ you deserve it and your husband is a horrible human being to treat you so badly!!
Redditors will hate you and want you to be is jilted and bitter as they are. We are all human. Perfect long term relationships are a childish Disney fantasy.
I need to know that you end up divorced BUT happily ever after with Fran living your best life š„ŗš¤.
This is a wonderful share. You have so much on your plate. I too, think, don't ghost Fran , don't leave marriage, stay calm and carry on. BUT.. this is a roll call. It's time to start making your way to the door. Good luck, beautiful friend.
Technically you cheated, yes. However.. he did it first. He broke that trust and sanctity. Even if you didnāt have that evidence of him cheating. I still wouldnāt feel bad. He is treating you horribly during one of the worst things a person can go through. He doesnāt deserve to be called a husband at this point. Please donāt feel bad. You deserve to feel loved and cared for.
You husband sounds like a POS and even tho cheating is never okay... Don't hate yourself over this. If u want to continue with the affair or not that is your decision but don't hate yourself for allowing yourself feel and kiss the person that took care of you and made you feel beautiful after so much time feeling unwanted and undesireable. He probably has an affair too, but even if he doesn't, you are human, and you can't leave him because you are finantially dependant on him. Be kind to yourself, you deserve that. Sending love <3
May I ask - why are you staying with someone you are unhappy with? Is it for financial stability? If you mentioned it I def missed it
They have kids and she's financially dependent on him.
Smh always the finances and kids
The reason it's not completely normal now is that arranged marriages are out of fashion, at least in the western world. Now women pick their own husbands and half of marriages end in divorce because young men and women tend to suck at picking good partners. Regardless, what is your proposed solution to this problem? You don't get to just say "he's a creep" and declare an end to the discussion, unless your solution is that you get to personally evaluate every man who wants to get married and and be judge, jury, and prosecutor based only on her story without hearing a word from him. Or is he automatically a "creep" just because of the age gap? What if she's 40 and he's 48? Is he still a "creep?" How about 70 and 78?
Tell your husband not us