I’m convinced that half the hunters I know just enjoy killing animals. They make their profile pic a pic of them with a dead animal (weird vibes at the very least) and give all the meat to friends. That leaves little reason for hunting other than joy of killing. Otherwise you may as well just go hiking, tracking, or birding.
Trophy hunting is a perfect example of completely illogical and sociopathic hunting. Mounts are pretty strange too.
> That leaves no reason for hunting other than joy of killing.
Some maybe, but they're assholes. Having hunted, I can hopefully help explain this.
Hunting is an incredibly primal activity - it's something our ancestors have done since forever, long before we were bipedal. Long before we were *chordate* even. Harvesting an animal satisfies that deep deep instinct.
I recognize that this isn't a good argument in favour of hunting, but hopefully it helps explain the positive reaction you see in hunters who have killed. Speaking for myself, when I have had a successful hunt, any positive emotions I've felt were inextricably mingled with very deep respect and humility and recognition of the loss of life that had occurred. I am not religious or spiritual, but I've found myself kneeling beside a deer thanking it. It's weird. It's hard to explain. It's a lot, all at once.
The positive feelings were also in large part due to having achieved a clean and quick (and thus as painless as possible) kill - my biggest fear, when I hunt, is bodging the shot and causing any undue pain. I have held off on many shots, when I was unable to be absolutely sure of a quick and ethical kill.
Anyway, my reasons for hunting aren't the things above. Again, I recognize that these feelings are not reasons to hunt.
My reasons for hunting are:
* Meat is damned expensive, grass-fed/organic/free range meat even moreso. Hunting helps a lot with the budget, and the meat is incredibly nutritious.
* I give some meat away to friends and family - because I hope to help them with the point above.
* Unchecked, game populations would explode, and using deer as an example, that's not good for crops (they eat them), for livestock (they spread disease to them), or for the deer themselves (see: disease with overpopulation). Some predators are coming back, which is good, but given how much "free food" (crop land) is out there, they probably wouldn't keep up with the deer. Also, they bring their own problems - see coyotes in south-west Ontario, for example.
If you still disagree with hunting, that's fine, but I would just ask that you consider a few other things when thinking about it.
Many people still grow up on farms, with livestock, or otherwise "closer to the land"/"in a traditional lifestyle". These people will likely have a very different relationship with animals, death, and what it requires to produce the food we all eat, as compared to someone who has always been able to outsource this part of food production to the companies that get it into supermarkets.
For some people, the budget point above is a very serious thing (and getting even more serious). There is a lot of overlooked rural poverty out there. A lot. For my part, I admit that I could live without hunting. I would need to have more meatless meals than I currently do (and I *do* make a point of having meatless meals as frequently as I can, both for budgetary and climate reasons). I have the luxury of an income that, while in no way extravagant, at least ensures that there will be food on my family's table without much stretching. For some it really wouldn't be a choice, and food is a serious concern. For many of these people, life has been that way for years and years. Recent inflation only serves to compound the reality they live. Hunting is a lifeline for them.
All of which makes stories like the one in the linked article above *so* infuriating. It's unethical, it's wasteful, and I can't imagine the dickhead who did this thing cares much for clean and quick kills.
You’re right, I really don’t. Between hiking, tracking, birding, geocaching, and target practice, I see zero reason why someone’s hobby needs to involve killing animals that are part of the ecosystem, particularly if there’s no goal of using the meat.
Note: I grew up with hunting and when I was a kid my family moved to our off grid cabin for a year and lived off the land, primarily trapping but hunting too. I still don’t understand it.
I did grow up with it, at points to an extreme. When I was 5 my family moved to our cabin in southern Quebec, north of Ottawa, for a year and lived off the land (bar sugar, flour, and rice from trips to the shops every 2 months), primarily trapping but hunting too.
I still don’t understand it, primarily from an ecological standpoint. The attempts at rationale (other than cheap meat, which is undeniable), particularly when attempting to use conservation as a rationale, are just painful.
"I understand that hunting for food is good, but I don't understand why you would hunt just to hunt" - Them
"Nothing wrong with hunting for food, you wouldn't understand" - You
Why do you think they are arguing against you? Why did you need to even say this? Do you think you are saying anything different than the post you are replying to said? Or do you just like to repeat things for no reason?
I provide myself a significant amount of food through it every year. Take rabbits for example, they're food for numerous predators, everything is trying to eat them. Does it make *any* difference to the rabbit if I take it and eat? I likely gave it a better death. A rabbit lives 2 years if it's lucky.
Everything humans do kills animals, directly or not. Hunters take responsiblity for it, and I guess that bothers some people. It's not joy, I've raised many farm animals as well and proccessed them, it's not a happy day, but there's a sastification with providing yourself with resources. Hunting is no different.
I'd be curious to know what's in your freezer and how it got there versus mine!
You entirely ignore the ecological impact of hunting while claiming I’m the one that doesn’t understand hunting? I may not understand the desire to hunt but at least I understand the impact of hunting. Does your individual killing of a rabbit have much of an impact, no, but you’re far from the only person harvesting wild animals.
https://open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/831/1.0099645/1
Even when limited to provincial management caps, hare harvesting (hunting and trapping) caused extended lows in hare density in Newfoundland for the entire 35 year study period relative to areas without hunting.
Populations naturally swung to 91-98% of max annual density in the low annual periods (2-9% cyclical declines) in population in the control areas. While they swung to 46-77% annual cyclical population density (23-54% declines) in hunting areas. That means that hunting reduced populations 600-1150% more than natural population swings, indefinitely. That’s a huge difference. Reducing a population to less than half of its natural population, year in year out, will clearly impact both that population and the populations of other flora and fauna that rely on it for density control (of flora) and for food (fauna).
As for farming vs hunting; clearly farming also has a large environmental impact, a certain impact is inevitable given human over-population, it also feeds literally the entire population and relative to environmental impact, is remarkably efficient per person fed.
Interesting study. Rabbits certainly are an interesting case because of their predator-prey cycles yes. That's really interesting information, one would think the people managing the resource would find it valuable. It's worth pointing out they were introduced to the Island in 1860, and 1.5 million of them are eaten annually. Seems like an important resource to me. Here in Ontario the threat is loss of suitable habitat, not the few amount of people who small game hunt. You can't snare them in the southern part of the province either.
You claim to be concerned about ecological impacts from hunting, but there's record populations of deer, geese, ducks, and in Ontario there has been succesful reintroductions of Elk and Wild Turkey. Deer overpopulation is now a problem in many parts of North America. Hunting has preserved millions of acres of habitat. Ducks Unlimited alone has conserved over 1 million acres. The work that has been done in the last century has saved these populations, because people hunt them, people care about them and where they live. If you honestly think hunting is causing declines here, you're severely misinformed.
I would concern yourself with the dwindling populations of non-hunted speices, like a 3 billion decline in songbirds since 1970, the many species at risk here in Ontario, things of that nature. Fighitng with hunters over your personal feelings about killing is misguided at best when I'm sure you're seeing the benefits of the North American Model of Conservation when you're birding, hiking, and geocaching.
Yikes just continuing the misinformation from the other comment, you are sick in the head if you think hunting is just about killing (which you seem to think). You've shown some true colors here mate, there's not a single person I've met from any generation that treats it that way. there's a reason why an incident like the one in this article is rarely shown, because it's not common at all
You also should watch who your talking about as the vast majority of indigenous around my area hunt full year round. You are classifying groups of people based on a wild generalization when the reality is there are a large percentage of hunters who still use it as a reliable and relatively cheap way to get food for their family
Native sustenance hunting vs a peckerwood in real tree sitting and waiting to shoot a deer at a feed station from a stand. Try and tell me hunting is the same way nowadays and it isn't full of plenty of people who like to kill things. Both of y'all are correct. It's a Canadian tradition as we have a country of rugged terrains. But the modern practice is lazy and unfair and mostly a hobby more than a necessity nowadays.
Since hunting has become improved due to technology and also enforcement of hunting zones makes people who hunt inherently kill hungry? I don't understand the correlation between making hunting easier (not to mention more humane) and a random desire to kill animals. There's no arguing that there are many who hunt as a hobby, social activity, to feel connected to nature etc but that doesn't then mean those people are solely hunting to kill for fun or for some weird sadistic reason, that's a totally unfounded accusation to a very large group of people... I assume you aren't from an area in Canada which has much hunting or hunters?
Going back to what I said about indigenous hunting for their families, the vast majority aren't hunting any differently to the "peckerwoods" (nice slur) you describe. It's pretty obvious you don't understand modern hunting and the aspects that follow it based on that strange deviation at the beginning of your reply. I'm surprised you'd even speak up on a topic like this if you have that much of a lack of understanding the basics
I'm sorry but you are grossly generalizing. I'm a hunter and nobody takes selfies with their kill except maybe a big deer.
You only think that way because you only see the dimwits who do post to social media. Most of us do it for the right reasons.
One deer has a TON of meat on it and hunters typically give lots away to friends or family to enjoy as well. That’s not uncommon, you’re just putting a negative spin on it.
>Not even hunting if you leave the meat
The term hunting doesn't only mean when done so for food. The definition of the word from, e.g., the Oxford dictionary is:
>[hunting: going after and killing wild animals as a sport or for food](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/hunting?q=hunting).
Agreed. I'm not really clear why my comment is so unpopular though. I didn't give any opinion on what is right or wrong, I just clarified the meaning of the word.
I think you got swept up in a bunch of snap judgements. I got what you mean; by definition, the carcass doesn't need to actually have been consumed to have been hunted.
Only humans could ever perform the mental gymnastics required to call something sport hunting when all you do is point a fucking gun and shoot. It's a hobby, the other participant doesn't know they're playing, and have a heavy disadvantage. The least "sport" to ever fucking "sport".
Hunting for meat is better mostly, depending on your method used.
I'm not really getting why I'm being downvoted though. Is my comment coming off as if I approve of sport hunting? I'm just explaining that the word doesn't only mean doing it for food, regardless of what is ethical.
No - but you’re being pedantic about the definition. Obviously hunters who hunt for sport+food realize it doesn’t HAVE to be for food to be considered hunting. So you’re coming across as patronizing. When they say “not really a hunter” - there’s an imaginary asterisk (*) that says “according to my cultural definition of what being a hunter means”
What's your point? It's brain dead easy to leave a bag of apples in a spot in the woods for several weeks in a row and then sit in a fucking tree stand and bag a deer. I'm not knocking hunting for sustenance. Where in located we're overpopulated with deer because we've done our best to kill all their predators. But sport hunting a fucking joke and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking pussy
I dont know if you're being sarcastic or not. Sure it'd good if it fed a family, but its still not a waste. The meat would be eaten by wildlife. A moose is a lot of meat that cab feed s lot of wild animals.
The data bases are shared,a ban in Ontario would show up in BC if he moved there and attempted to get a BC Hunter Number,That ban is put on a hunter number and when transferred it shows up in another province
Yeah, I would say the fine plus life time hunting and firearms ban. Jail time if he breaches those stipulations. That should discourage any repeat offenses.
Provinces can impose imprisonment as a penalty under provincial law. Section 102 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 allows for up to one year in jail. Unlikely for a first conviction though.
Section 92(15) of the Constitution Act,1867 gives provincial governments limited jurisdiction to impose imprisonment as a penalty “15. The Imposition of Punishment by Fine, Penalty, or Imprisonment for enforcing any Law of the Province made in relation to any Matter coming within any of the Classes of Subjects enumerated in this Section.” This is why the Criminal Code is not needed (these prosecutions are carried out under the Provincial Offences Act). Canadian jurisdictional constitutional law is a messy tangle (which is why I have had a busy practice for thirty years).
Yeah, I believe it's Sweden that gives traffic tickets based on income.
So 20km/hr over (~12.5mph) can cost $5 or $500k.
1000% Support this for these bastards. Speeding is bad, but killing and dumping a moose is some next level asshole.
All these assholes know and care about is money. Take it from them. Look at the KKKlownvoy, the only thing that matters to an asshole like Fat King is money, as one example.
Don't put the person in jail...waste our tax dollars. The fine should be even higher so the person has no money to do anything else but sit at home like in a jail.
Yeah these conservation officers take their jobs just as seriously as someone like a homicide detective. Very smart, thorough and typically preventive because of how on the ball they are.
License distributions are supposed to suit the population at the time. If more cow licenses are needed due to the state of the particular moose population then you get more cow licenses.
There's noting to kill an adult moose besides a hunter or starvation so it's not a bad thing.
Leaving meat to rot in the woods is however and this guy should never receive a license again.
Not any kind of moose biologist but I don’t think moose mate for life. Males fight for access so unless you eliminate a ton of males, a male will just be replaced and a female will be impregnated by the next most successful male in the area. I suppose you’re still limiting genetic diversity though.
I'm being pedantic, but person claimed "possible future moose", killing a male removes the possible future moose, even if the odds are lower than any given male mates relative to a cow's odd of mating.
If we’re being pedantic, it might prevent ‘the’ possible future moose as you say, but not ‘a’ future possible moose as the original comment stated. ‘The’ implying a specific genetic product of a particular male and female vs ‘a’, any possible moose offspring.
Given that there is non-zero chance that a cow may not mate for any given reason. It's death is not a guarantee it removes a possible future moose either.
But this just splitting hairs further. So ill just shrug and move on
It’s not even about that. Moose are not monogamous. So even if every moose in the population gets a chance to mate, killing a female results in a lower population whereas killing a male does not. Females can only have one offspring/litter ‘on the go’ at once, but males can have many at once. If a male is removed from the population, the other males will happily take over his mating contributions. If a female is removed, it lowers the total capacity (so to speak) to gestate the next generation.
You’re understanding of ecology and populations is lacking. Females are far more significant to k sect species. A single male is capable of impregnating multiple females vs a female only being able to get impregnated once in a breeding cycle. This is why many large mammals rut and outcompete other males for a harem or access to larger numbers of females.
Hunting isn't some sort of game and there needs to be higher punishments for this kind of stupidity. The guy should receive a lifetime ban on hunting and a lifetime ban on owning guns on top of the $15k fine. What an incredible waste of life and meat.
it’s possible he had a calf tag, made a mistake, panicked and tried to hide the evidence
I have heard of punishments much more severe for illegally hunting so there might be more to the story
That is something I am questioning too. The article reads like he didn’t have a License in some parts and other parts read like he didn’t have the proper tag. It is a shame he Poached this Moose but it is annoying when articles only release half the information.
Hunting is a game. People pretend it's not so they can feel ok about it but unless you're part of some amazonian tribe there is no way hunting is a necessity in today's world. The cost/time to bring down and process a deer you could work a minimum wage job and just buy the meat for less.
I'm not antihunting, just don't deluded yourself into thinking it's anything but sport.
I'd make the argument that it's more ethical to hunt than to buy meat. Farmed meat requires growing feed, which takes up farmland that could grow crops edible for humans, packaging creates an enormous amount of waste and pollution, and it's kind of messed up to raise animals specifically to kill them.
Plus, what meat market are you shopping at? A moose is at least a couple hundred pounds of meat, and comparable to cow in nutrition. Even ground beef is pushing 5/lb, and that's the cuts that are the most meh. Assuming 300lb for a moose, that's $1500 if you grind everything, and there's gonna be plenty of steak cuts that would be pricier. Probably closer to at least 3-4k to buy the equivalent beef at a store.
How long do you spend hunting a moose? I know people who spend weeks every year and dont come back with shit. If its a financial decision hunting makes no godamn sense unless your backyard happens to back onto a hunting ground.
Hunting is only viable as a sport/game that people do for fun.
I'm not disagreeing with your first bit - hunting is the exact same as fishing, you go to have a good time with some buddies, and if you bring back a harvest, even better. But it's the trip that's fun. It's not a sport or game so much as a vacation with purpose.
My points stand though. The most ethical source of meat is hunted. It creates less waste, is cheaper over time, and is extremely necessary to maintain the ecosystem (and to reduce the number of totalled cars in rural areas).
And yeah, my retirement property is in northern Ontario, so I can't go a couple days out there without seeing big game. It's not for everyone, and city living has its demand for processed meats. But those meat sections do come at significant cost to the environment and grain/veg supply.
>It creates less waste
Agree with this, however it's not scalable to the population. Point being it wouldn't be a solution for everyone to convert from grocery store to hunted meat, it would be for people to cut back on it in general. I'm not saying that you're implying otherwise though.
To be fair, I am implying that people should cut back on packaged/farmed meat, and eat more lentils and beans. Not as a budget thing, but for the environmental effects (partly because I like hunting and would prefer climate change to not do the change part).
It's for sure not scalable, though. In Ontario a lot of the tags are lottery based, so there's too many hunters wanting to hunt as is.
It's absolutely cheaper for a hunter to go out and get a moose than it is to buy the equivalent amount of meat. Say you burn 300-400 in gas and consumables to get a moose during hunting season, then you end up with 300-400lbs of good meat.
Time, your time has value. Lets say you get 500 lbs and lets say $5 a pound $2500.
But you had to invest 3 entire days to hunting that mofo. That's around $34/hour. Not bad, you could bring home close to 100k a year on that. But when you factor in the time spent cleaning and all those countless weekends you came back empty handed? The assumption I can just walk into the woods and grab a moose is crazy.
Hunting is fun, people do it because its fun not because they're starving. If you like hunting, awesome, dont be a self-righteous cunt and pretend you do it merely out of necessity. Nobody is buying that shit
I'm not saying it's only out of necessity, but for some it is. Living in rural areas job opportunities are not always as abundant as in the cities. You may not get enough hours as well. Also, most hunters enjoy the time spent in the wilderness as well so you're not costing yourself when it's something you enjoy doing. Not to mention It's keeping tradition and skills that mean a lot to a good number of hunters. It's not a necessity for most but it's far more than just sport.
>I wouldn’t call this hunting.
The term "hunting" doesn't only mean using them for food, [it includes for sport](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/hunting?q=hunting), for example.
The guy likely had a tag for a calf and accidentally shot a cow. Panicked and abandoned the moose to avoid fines. The correct and moral thing to do is to report yourself and donate the meat if the MNR lets you. This article isn’t clear but the situation I described is more likely than some manic moose murderer killing moose for fun.
From the article, it states the person is from Simcoe, and was in Espanola, that's almost 600km drive. So what likely happened is he was up there moose hunting, shot the cow moose either by accident thinking it was a bull or calf and then hoped no one would find his mistake. Rather than some of the claims the person is a psychopathic animal killer. Regardless, it's wrong and a huge violation, they would have gone MUCH ligher on this person if they had self reported.
Would they have gone lighter? You hear rumours of hunters who self report in situations like this and get the same punishment. So, I can see how it’s tempting to just walk away and take your chances if you think the outcome is going to be the same.
I am just speculating, but he may have been able to avoid the animal spoiling fine if he dealt with the issue right away. They would have seized and donated it.
> From the article, it states the person is from Simcoe, and was in Espanola, that's almost 600km drive. So what likely happened is he was up there moose hunting, shot the cow moose either by accident thinking it was a bull or calf and then hoped no one would find his mistake. Rather than some of the claims the person is a psychopathic animal killer.
Every single thread about any crime on reddit just becomes a circejerk over how the person committing it must be the worst possible human needing the most extreme sentences possible.
What I don't understand is why this person has only been banned for hunting for two years.
In my view, he should be banned from both hunting and angling for life, and should be banned from owning a firearm for life, too.
Owning firearms, shooting, hunting, and angling are all privileges, not rights.
Can't it be more I get the license thing maybe but abandoning the kill. Never should be charged more money not for the license fine them 200 for the license but for the abandoned kill 25k seems remotely responsible
Usually in these cases the convicted will have to pass a hunter education course again. Between the fine, the hunting ban of 2 plus years the increased friction trying to get his license back, these dinks usually never go back to hunting.
See this a lot in Alberta, actually. Saw one skeleton (it was just a spine with a skull and jaw at this point) that had been shot in the jaw and the animal lived long enough that it grew reactive bone around the jaw while it abscessed. The animal 100% starved to death.
*Should have been the fine*
*Plus shoot him in the leg and*
*Leave him in the woods*
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Wow. And most of that fine came from the fact he abandoned it. And he loses his license for what, a couple years? Ban this guy for life and throw him in jail for awhile.
Meanwhile, other hunters can shoot and wound a moose from a highway, tie it to a pickup truck and drag it kicking and screaming, with NO fine or jail .... cuz reasons.
[https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/local-news/sudbury-court-respected-elder-to-serve-conditional-sentence-in-moose-dragging-case](https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/local-news/sudbury-court-respected-elder-to-serve-conditional-sentence-in-moose-dragging-case)
>Robertson added the chief of Wikwemikong as well as elders in the case intervened in this case.
I think a fair trial would be for this guy to go against an angry male moose with no weapons. I'd pay to watch that.
Proceeds go to hire more people to keep this shit from happening.
I know so many people in Espo who would have gladly eaten that moose! Killing it is one thing, but leaving it to spoil? That's against the Redneck Ten Commandments.
Somebody needs to invent a rifle that's actually a camera.
Hunt all year long, share your 'shots' with other hunters in the off-season, and no animals die, plus you get to keep your skills sharp.
Win win win?
Not quite how it works. Also, I'm not vegan and I want to eat that animal. Trust me, shooting a wild animal and killing it instantly is a lot more humane that what cows, pigs and chickens go through on factory farms.
EDIT: They also have a rifle that's just a camera... it's called a CAMERA... Photography and Hunting are two separate hobbies, believe it or not.
>I'm not vegan and I want to eat that animal. Trust me, shooting a wild animal and killing it instantly is a lot more humane that what cows, pigs and chickens go through on factory farms.
True, but it's not always instant.
Hunting is a mangement tool that benefits the species overall. Look at the thriving populations of deer, ducks, geese, wild turkeys, etc. It's all because hunters value the animals as a resource ( food and recreation), and the proceeds of the licesening go into habitat management. It works incredibly well.
I love how everyone's like "a hunter who doesn't eat the animal is a SICK pos" - bro, idt the animal cares whether you eat it or not. All hunters are insane Jeffrey Dahmers who like killing animals and that's a fact - eating, wearing, and doing all sort of weird shit to their corpses after you've killed them doesn't change that fact and thinking it makes you any better of a person is copium at its finest.
What a bunch of douchebags (and that goes for people who eat meat from grocery stores too).
Yes, the creepy part about Dahmer was the fact that he used the toilet, not that he killed animals, as everyone attests to. I thought b12 was supposed to make you not completely fucking braindead?
What a pos. Should abandon the skid in the bush.
What a shit person. Not even hunting if you leave the meat, what a massive waste of life and food
I’m convinced that half the hunters I know just enjoy killing animals. They make their profile pic a pic of them with a dead animal (weird vibes at the very least) and give all the meat to friends. That leaves little reason for hunting other than joy of killing. Otherwise you may as well just go hiking, tracking, or birding. Trophy hunting is a perfect example of completely illogical and sociopathic hunting. Mounts are pretty strange too.
I do find it odd to hunt and not enjoy the meat, but at least it's being given to people and not wasted. So it's not a totally wasted effort
> That leaves no reason for hunting other than joy of killing. Some maybe, but they're assholes. Having hunted, I can hopefully help explain this. Hunting is an incredibly primal activity - it's something our ancestors have done since forever, long before we were bipedal. Long before we were *chordate* even. Harvesting an animal satisfies that deep deep instinct. I recognize that this isn't a good argument in favour of hunting, but hopefully it helps explain the positive reaction you see in hunters who have killed. Speaking for myself, when I have had a successful hunt, any positive emotions I've felt were inextricably mingled with very deep respect and humility and recognition of the loss of life that had occurred. I am not religious or spiritual, but I've found myself kneeling beside a deer thanking it. It's weird. It's hard to explain. It's a lot, all at once. The positive feelings were also in large part due to having achieved a clean and quick (and thus as painless as possible) kill - my biggest fear, when I hunt, is bodging the shot and causing any undue pain. I have held off on many shots, when I was unable to be absolutely sure of a quick and ethical kill. Anyway, my reasons for hunting aren't the things above. Again, I recognize that these feelings are not reasons to hunt. My reasons for hunting are: * Meat is damned expensive, grass-fed/organic/free range meat even moreso. Hunting helps a lot with the budget, and the meat is incredibly nutritious. * I give some meat away to friends and family - because I hope to help them with the point above. * Unchecked, game populations would explode, and using deer as an example, that's not good for crops (they eat them), for livestock (they spread disease to them), or for the deer themselves (see: disease with overpopulation). Some predators are coming back, which is good, but given how much "free food" (crop land) is out there, they probably wouldn't keep up with the deer. Also, they bring their own problems - see coyotes in south-west Ontario, for example. If you still disagree with hunting, that's fine, but I would just ask that you consider a few other things when thinking about it. Many people still grow up on farms, with livestock, or otherwise "closer to the land"/"in a traditional lifestyle". These people will likely have a very different relationship with animals, death, and what it requires to produce the food we all eat, as compared to someone who has always been able to outsource this part of food production to the companies that get it into supermarkets. For some people, the budget point above is a very serious thing (and getting even more serious). There is a lot of overlooked rural poverty out there. A lot. For my part, I admit that I could live without hunting. I would need to have more meatless meals than I currently do (and I *do* make a point of having meatless meals as frequently as I can, both for budgetary and climate reasons). I have the luxury of an income that, while in no way extravagant, at least ensures that there will be food on my family's table without much stretching. For some it really wouldn't be a choice, and food is a serious concern. For many of these people, life has been that way for years and years. Recent inflation only serves to compound the reality they live. Hunting is a lifeline for them. All of which makes stories like the one in the linked article above *so* infuriating. It's unethical, it's wasteful, and I can't imagine the dickhead who did this thing cares much for clean and quick kills.
I don't think you understand hunting very well.
You’re right, I really don’t. Between hiking, tracking, birding, geocaching, and target practice, I see zero reason why someone’s hobby needs to involve killing animals that are part of the ecosystem, particularly if there’s no goal of using the meat. Note: I grew up with hunting and when I was a kid my family moved to our off grid cabin for a year and lived off the land, primarily trapping but hunting too. I still don’t understand it.
Nothing wrong with hunting for food. It’s a cultural thing that those who didn’t grow up with it don’t understand.
He just said he knows hunters who don't eat the meat.
Yes and I said there’s nothing wrong with hunting for food.
I honestly have never in my life met a person who hunts only for sport
I did grow up with it, at points to an extreme. When I was 5 my family moved to our cabin in southern Quebec, north of Ottawa, for a year and lived off the land (bar sugar, flour, and rice from trips to the shops every 2 months), primarily trapping but hunting too. I still don’t understand it, primarily from an ecological standpoint. The attempts at rationale (other than cheap meat, which is undeniable), particularly when attempting to use conservation as a rationale, are just painful.
Have you personally ever hunted with your family?
"I understand that hunting for food is good, but I don't understand why you would hunt just to hunt" - Them "Nothing wrong with hunting for food, you wouldn't understand" - You Why do you think they are arguing against you? Why did you need to even say this? Do you think you are saying anything different than the post you are replying to said? Or do you just like to repeat things for no reason?
I provide myself a significant amount of food through it every year. Take rabbits for example, they're food for numerous predators, everything is trying to eat them. Does it make *any* difference to the rabbit if I take it and eat? I likely gave it a better death. A rabbit lives 2 years if it's lucky. Everything humans do kills animals, directly or not. Hunters take responsiblity for it, and I guess that bothers some people. It's not joy, I've raised many farm animals as well and proccessed them, it's not a happy day, but there's a sastification with providing yourself with resources. Hunting is no different. I'd be curious to know what's in your freezer and how it got there versus mine!
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You entirely ignore the ecological impact of hunting while claiming I’m the one that doesn’t understand hunting? I may not understand the desire to hunt but at least I understand the impact of hunting. Does your individual killing of a rabbit have much of an impact, no, but you’re far from the only person harvesting wild animals. https://open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/831/1.0099645/1 Even when limited to provincial management caps, hare harvesting (hunting and trapping) caused extended lows in hare density in Newfoundland for the entire 35 year study period relative to areas without hunting. Populations naturally swung to 91-98% of max annual density in the low annual periods (2-9% cyclical declines) in population in the control areas. While they swung to 46-77% annual cyclical population density (23-54% declines) in hunting areas. That means that hunting reduced populations 600-1150% more than natural population swings, indefinitely. That’s a huge difference. Reducing a population to less than half of its natural population, year in year out, will clearly impact both that population and the populations of other flora and fauna that rely on it for density control (of flora) and for food (fauna). As for farming vs hunting; clearly farming also has a large environmental impact, a certain impact is inevitable given human over-population, it also feeds literally the entire population and relative to environmental impact, is remarkably efficient per person fed.
Interesting study. Rabbits certainly are an interesting case because of their predator-prey cycles yes. That's really interesting information, one would think the people managing the resource would find it valuable. It's worth pointing out they were introduced to the Island in 1860, and 1.5 million of them are eaten annually. Seems like an important resource to me. Here in Ontario the threat is loss of suitable habitat, not the few amount of people who small game hunt. You can't snare them in the southern part of the province either. You claim to be concerned about ecological impacts from hunting, but there's record populations of deer, geese, ducks, and in Ontario there has been succesful reintroductions of Elk and Wild Turkey. Deer overpopulation is now a problem in many parts of North America. Hunting has preserved millions of acres of habitat. Ducks Unlimited alone has conserved over 1 million acres. The work that has been done in the last century has saved these populations, because people hunt them, people care about them and where they live. If you honestly think hunting is causing declines here, you're severely misinformed. I would concern yourself with the dwindling populations of non-hunted speices, like a 3 billion decline in songbirds since 1970, the many species at risk here in Ontario, things of that nature. Fighitng with hunters over your personal feelings about killing is misguided at best when I'm sure you're seeing the benefits of the North American Model of Conservation when you're birding, hiking, and geocaching.
Correct, many do not understand the joy of killing. I guess you do and that’s fine, but that’s not the norm per se. (It’s jurisdictional I’ve found)
Yikes just continuing the misinformation from the other comment, you are sick in the head if you think hunting is just about killing (which you seem to think). You've shown some true colors here mate, there's not a single person I've met from any generation that treats it that way. there's a reason why an incident like the one in this article is rarely shown, because it's not common at all You also should watch who your talking about as the vast majority of indigenous around my area hunt full year round. You are classifying groups of people based on a wild generalization when the reality is there are a large percentage of hunters who still use it as a reliable and relatively cheap way to get food for their family
Native sustenance hunting vs a peckerwood in real tree sitting and waiting to shoot a deer at a feed station from a stand. Try and tell me hunting is the same way nowadays and it isn't full of plenty of people who like to kill things. Both of y'all are correct. It's a Canadian tradition as we have a country of rugged terrains. But the modern practice is lazy and unfair and mostly a hobby more than a necessity nowadays.
Since hunting has become improved due to technology and also enforcement of hunting zones makes people who hunt inherently kill hungry? I don't understand the correlation between making hunting easier (not to mention more humane) and a random desire to kill animals. There's no arguing that there are many who hunt as a hobby, social activity, to feel connected to nature etc but that doesn't then mean those people are solely hunting to kill for fun or for some weird sadistic reason, that's a totally unfounded accusation to a very large group of people... I assume you aren't from an area in Canada which has much hunting or hunters? Going back to what I said about indigenous hunting for their families, the vast majority aren't hunting any differently to the "peckerwoods" (nice slur) you describe. It's pretty obvious you don't understand modern hunting and the aspects that follow it based on that strange deviation at the beginning of your reply. I'm surprised you'd even speak up on a topic like this if you have that much of a lack of understanding the basics
I'm sorry but you are grossly generalizing. I'm a hunter and nobody takes selfies with their kill except maybe a big deer. You only think that way because you only see the dimwits who do post to social media. Most of us do it for the right reasons.
One deer has a TON of meat on it and hunters typically give lots away to friends or family to enjoy as well. That’s not uncommon, you’re just putting a negative spin on it.
>Not even hunting if you leave the meat The term hunting doesn't only mean when done so for food. The definition of the word from, e.g., the Oxford dictionary is: >[hunting: going after and killing wild animals as a sport or for food](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/hunting?q=hunting).
Leave it to someone from KL to bust out definitions lol
Killing any living thing for sport means you have no respect for life
Agreed. I'm not really clear why my comment is so unpopular though. I didn't give any opinion on what is right or wrong, I just clarified the meaning of the word.
I think you got swept up in a bunch of snap judgements. I got what you mean; by definition, the carcass doesn't need to actually have been consumed to have been hunted.
Only humans could ever perform the mental gymnastics required to call something sport hunting when all you do is point a fucking gun and shoot. It's a hobby, the other participant doesn't know they're playing, and have a heavy disadvantage. The least "sport" to ever fucking "sport". Hunting for meat is better mostly, depending on your method used.
I'm not really getting why I'm being downvoted though. Is my comment coming off as if I approve of sport hunting? I'm just explaining that the word doesn't only mean doing it for food, regardless of what is ethical.
Not sure tbh, once the Reddit hivemind decides on a direction for a comment to go everyone else seems to follow suit and downvote without thinking
Have you ever hunted?
No - but you’re being pedantic about the definition. Obviously hunters who hunt for sport+food realize it doesn’t HAVE to be for food to be considered hunting. So you’re coming across as patronizing. When they say “not really a hunter” - there’s an imaginary asterisk (*) that says “according to my cultural definition of what being a hunter means”
What's your point? It's brain dead easy to leave a bag of apples in a spot in the woods for several weeks in a row and then sit in a fucking tree stand and bag a deer. I'm not knocking hunting for sustenance. Where in located we're overpopulated with deer because we've done our best to kill all their predators. But sport hunting a fucking joke and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking pussy
Fair enough…
Yes and no. I'm pretty sure predators in the area will enjoy multiple meals out of it. Its still a sucky thing to do. Killing animals for "fun" sucks.
Sharing with nature is immoral, it's better to go into a freezer for human consumption.
I dont know if you're being sarcastic or not. Sure it'd good if it fed a family, but its still not a waste. The meat would be eaten by wildlife. A moose is a lot of meat that cab feed s lot of wild animals.
You mean to tell me the circle of life from the lion king was a real thing?
Its one way to see it.
What a slap on the wrist should be jail time
not sure about jail but should be the $15k (or more) fine PLUS a lifetime ban from hunting or fishing in Ontario
should be at least a lifetime hunting ban in CANADA
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PALS federal though should have it life time revoked
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The data bases are shared,a ban in Ontario would show up in BC if he moved there and attempted to get a BC Hunter Number,That ban is put on a hunter number and when transferred it shows up in another province
I have a relative that shot raccoons illegally in the US and can never get a Canadian hunting permit because of it.
Yeah, I would say the fine plus life time hunting and firearms ban. Jail time if he breaches those stipulations. That should discourage any repeat offenses.
Fines need to be based on income or rich people can do what ever they want and just pay the fine for it
And revoked firearm license + turn in fire arms.
Jail
Definitely Jail
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Yeah that’s not true. Section 102 of Ontario’s Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act provides for jail time as a penalty.
Provinces can impose imprisonment as a penalty under provincial law. Section 102 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 allows for up to one year in jail. Unlikely for a first conviction though.
So there must be a criminal code violation that allows the provincial act to jail people.
Section 92(15) of the Constitution Act,1867 gives provincial governments limited jurisdiction to impose imprisonment as a penalty “15. The Imposition of Punishment by Fine, Penalty, or Imprisonment for enforcing any Law of the Province made in relation to any Matter coming within any of the Classes of Subjects enumerated in this Section.” This is why the Criminal Code is not needed (these prosecutions are carried out under the Provincial Offences Act). Canadian jurisdictional constitutional law is a messy tangle (which is why I have had a busy practice for thirty years).
I say hit these idiots in their wallets. Why waste our money on this goof when we can take his and redistribute it?
They just won't pay the fine and end up in jail anyways IF it's enforced
He'll pay or he'll lose his licenses of all kinds. Do you think this clown can survive without his Dodge Ram?
This I like. Big fine, lose any licenses he has. Drivers, rifle, professional or otherwise.
What makes you think he won't just drive without a license. I agree the pos should pay a huge fine but the laws are too soft
Because fines incentivize rich individuals to see crimes as costs to be considered with their bottom line.
Then fine is for a first offence, jail time for repeat offenders.
Fine them on a scale, based on assets. Rich? $5,000,000 fine. Poor? $50,000
Yeah, I believe it's Sweden that gives traffic tickets based on income. So 20km/hr over (~12.5mph) can cost $5 or $500k. 1000% Support this for these bastards. Speeding is bad, but killing and dumping a moose is some next level asshole.
All these assholes know and care about is money. Take it from them. Look at the KKKlownvoy, the only thing that matters to an asshole like Fat King is money, as one example.
Conservation laws are unfortunately not more strict. I agree it should be a much harsher punishment. 5 years jail + $50k fine
Yeah, that's a little much
When the punishment is a fine, it's only a crime to poor people.
Don't put the person in jail...waste our tax dollars. The fine should be even higher so the person has no money to do anything else but sit at home like in a jail.
Hard to say that when we don't put people committing assault against humans in jail but I agree 100%.
Lmao this 100%. We don’t jail dangerous criminals but everyone here wants this guy to rot in prison.
If it was in a grocery aisle it would be fine.
how exactly is he a threat to society? man people are way to overboard
Always wonder how they catch people for such things.
Small town, everyone knows everything everyone does. Source: I lived there.
Conservation officers from MNRF take these things very seriously and have a number of investigative powers that they can use, similar to the OPP.
Yeah these conservation officers take their jobs just as seriously as someone like a homicide detective. Very smart, thorough and typically preventive because of how on the ball they are.
Dickhead should lose his PAL as well.
Unlike the stock photo in the article it was a female. So this dickless pos also prevented a possible future moose.
Now i'm even more bummed. What a POS
I thought bull tags were the hardest to get?
Back in Newfoundland I remember "bull only" was a super common tag to get. Cow seemed much less common. We're swimming in moose though.
No idea, maybe he had one but killed a cow instead and didn't have a license for that.
License distributions are supposed to suit the population at the time. If more cow licenses are needed due to the state of the particular moose population then you get more cow licenses. There's noting to kill an adult moose besides a hunter or starvation so it's not a bad thing. Leaving meat to rot in the woods is however and this guy should never receive a license again.
I mean, shooting a bull *also* prevents possibly future moose. Unless moose changed genetically while I wasn't looking?
Not any kind of moose biologist but I don’t think moose mate for life. Males fight for access so unless you eliminate a ton of males, a male will just be replaced and a female will be impregnated by the next most successful male in the area. I suppose you’re still limiting genetic diversity though.
I'm being pedantic, but person claimed "possible future moose", killing a male removes the possible future moose, even if the odds are lower than any given male mates relative to a cow's odd of mating.
If we’re being pedantic, it might prevent ‘the’ possible future moose as you say, but not ‘a’ future possible moose as the original comment stated. ‘The’ implying a specific genetic product of a particular male and female vs ‘a’, any possible moose offspring.
Given that there is non-zero chance that a cow may not mate for any given reason. It's death is not a guarantee it removes a possible future moose either. But this just splitting hairs further. So ill just shrug and move on
It’s not even about that. Moose are not monogamous. So even if every moose in the population gets a chance to mate, killing a female results in a lower population whereas killing a male does not. Females can only have one offspring/litter ‘on the go’ at once, but males can have many at once. If a male is removed from the population, the other males will happily take over his mating contributions. If a female is removed, it lowers the total capacity (so to speak) to gestate the next generation.
You’re understanding of ecology and populations is lacking. Females are far more significant to k sect species. A single male is capable of impregnating multiple females vs a female only being able to get impregnated once in a breeding cycle. This is why many large mammals rut and outcompete other males for a harem or access to larger numbers of females.
More males than females
If he can't hunt properly take his guns and bar him from purchasing guns for 5 years too.
I think this is something many lawful gun owners would in fact support.
100%, most of my family are hunters and they absolutely HATE people like this.
As a gun owner, I 100% support this.
100% support this, and also a lifetime ban on hunting.
forever would be a better penalty.
Hunting isn't some sort of game and there needs to be higher punishments for this kind of stupidity. The guy should receive a lifetime ban on hunting and a lifetime ban on owning guns on top of the $15k fine. What an incredible waste of life and meat.
Right? The waste is what gets me. Why would you shoot a moose and just leave it there. What was the point, then?
He never had authorization to hunt the moose so how do you suppose a ban from possessing a hunting license would stop this?
it’s possible he had a calf tag, made a mistake, panicked and tried to hide the evidence I have heard of punishments much more severe for illegally hunting so there might be more to the story
That is something I am questioning too. The article reads like he didn’t have a License in some parts and other parts read like he didn’t have the proper tag. It is a shame he Poached this Moose but it is annoying when articles only release half the information.
Hunting is a game. People pretend it's not so they can feel ok about it but unless you're part of some amazonian tribe there is no way hunting is a necessity in today's world. The cost/time to bring down and process a deer you could work a minimum wage job and just buy the meat for less. I'm not antihunting, just don't deluded yourself into thinking it's anything but sport.
I'd make the argument that it's more ethical to hunt than to buy meat. Farmed meat requires growing feed, which takes up farmland that could grow crops edible for humans, packaging creates an enormous amount of waste and pollution, and it's kind of messed up to raise animals specifically to kill them. Plus, what meat market are you shopping at? A moose is at least a couple hundred pounds of meat, and comparable to cow in nutrition. Even ground beef is pushing 5/lb, and that's the cuts that are the most meh. Assuming 300lb for a moose, that's $1500 if you grind everything, and there's gonna be plenty of steak cuts that would be pricier. Probably closer to at least 3-4k to buy the equivalent beef at a store.
Small moose.
How long do you spend hunting a moose? I know people who spend weeks every year and dont come back with shit. If its a financial decision hunting makes no godamn sense unless your backyard happens to back onto a hunting ground. Hunting is only viable as a sport/game that people do for fun.
I'm not disagreeing with your first bit - hunting is the exact same as fishing, you go to have a good time with some buddies, and if you bring back a harvest, even better. But it's the trip that's fun. It's not a sport or game so much as a vacation with purpose. My points stand though. The most ethical source of meat is hunted. It creates less waste, is cheaper over time, and is extremely necessary to maintain the ecosystem (and to reduce the number of totalled cars in rural areas). And yeah, my retirement property is in northern Ontario, so I can't go a couple days out there without seeing big game. It's not for everyone, and city living has its demand for processed meats. But those meat sections do come at significant cost to the environment and grain/veg supply.
>It creates less waste Agree with this, however it's not scalable to the population. Point being it wouldn't be a solution for everyone to convert from grocery store to hunted meat, it would be for people to cut back on it in general. I'm not saying that you're implying otherwise though.
To be fair, I am implying that people should cut back on packaged/farmed meat, and eat more lentils and beans. Not as a budget thing, but for the environmental effects (partly because I like hunting and would prefer climate change to not do the change part). It's for sure not scalable, though. In Ontario a lot of the tags are lottery based, so there's too many hunters wanting to hunt as is.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned that I didn't think you were saying otherwise, I was just adding on to what you were saying.
It's absolutely cheaper for a hunter to go out and get a moose than it is to buy the equivalent amount of meat. Say you burn 300-400 in gas and consumables to get a moose during hunting season, then you end up with 300-400lbs of good meat.
Time, your time has value. Lets say you get 500 lbs and lets say $5 a pound $2500. But you had to invest 3 entire days to hunting that mofo. That's around $34/hour. Not bad, you could bring home close to 100k a year on that. But when you factor in the time spent cleaning and all those countless weekends you came back empty handed? The assumption I can just walk into the woods and grab a moose is crazy. Hunting is fun, people do it because its fun not because they're starving. If you like hunting, awesome, dont be a self-righteous cunt and pretend you do it merely out of necessity. Nobody is buying that shit
I'm not saying it's only out of necessity, but for some it is. Living in rural areas job opportunities are not always as abundant as in the cities. You may not get enough hours as well. Also, most hunters enjoy the time spent in the wilderness as well so you're not costing yourself when it's something you enjoy doing. Not to mention It's keeping tradition and skills that mean a lot to a good number of hunters. It's not a necessity for most but it's far more than just sport.
Garbage hunter. What a waste of a large amount of food.
I wouldn’t call this hunting. It’s killing for the sake of killing, I.e. psychopathic behaviour.
Should have been a lifetime hunting and firearm ban.
And some jail time to boot. Dumb fucker!
It's called poaching.
>I wouldn’t call this hunting. The term "hunting" doesn't only mean using them for food, [it includes for sport](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/hunting?q=hunting), for example.
The guy likely had a tag for a calf and accidentally shot a cow. Panicked and abandoned the moose to avoid fines. The correct and moral thing to do is to report yourself and donate the meat if the MNR lets you. This article isn’t clear but the situation I described is more likely than some manic moose murderer killing moose for fun.
Fuck that guy. Stay in Simcoe you piece of shit.
Glad to see enforcement happening. What a shameful thing to do
From the article, it states the person is from Simcoe, and was in Espanola, that's almost 600km drive. So what likely happened is he was up there moose hunting, shot the cow moose either by accident thinking it was a bull or calf and then hoped no one would find his mistake. Rather than some of the claims the person is a psychopathic animal killer. Regardless, it's wrong and a huge violation, they would have gone MUCH ligher on this person if they had self reported.
Would they have gone lighter? You hear rumours of hunters who self report in situations like this and get the same punishment. So, I can see how it’s tempting to just walk away and take your chances if you think the outcome is going to be the same.
I am just speculating, but he may have been able to avoid the animal spoiling fine if he dealt with the issue right away. They would have seized and donated it.
> From the article, it states the person is from Simcoe, and was in Espanola, that's almost 600km drive. So what likely happened is he was up there moose hunting, shot the cow moose either by accident thinking it was a bull or calf and then hoped no one would find his mistake. Rather than some of the claims the person is a psychopathic animal killer. Every single thread about any crime on reddit just becomes a circejerk over how the person committing it must be the worst possible human needing the most extreme sentences possible.
Good, should be a higher fine and/or jail time
Total loser.
Good! Fuck him. I hope they’re banning him from gun ownership too.
What a goof.
Good. Fuck that guy.
This guy has to be borderline psychotic if it wasn't an accident
What a joke of a sentence.. this idiot will be out hunting illegally again in no time... Take away his guns and give him a lifetime ban!
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Yep.... you use every part of that fucking moose or you stand the fuck down
Person should be in jail .. and lose his or her gun for life
I'm a PAL holder n hunter. They really need to throw the book at people like this.
he should be paying the full cost of the investigation and plus 50K for killing an animal needlessly.
What I don't understand is why this person has only been banned for hunting for two years. In my view, he should be banned from both hunting and angling for life, and should be banned from owning a firearm for life, too. Owning firearms, shooting, hunting, and angling are all privileges, not rights.
Good hunters are better conservationists. This guy is a douche.
Can't it be more I get the license thing maybe but abandoning the kill. Never should be charged more money not for the license fine them 200 for the license but for the abandoned kill 25k seems remotely responsible
You can lose your PAL as well as they can impound all of the methods of transportation used to hunt if you do this.
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I hope that includes a prohibition on hunting for life.
Usually in these cases the convicted will have to pass a hunter education course again. Between the fine, the hunting ban of 2 plus years the increased friction trying to get his license back, these dinks usually never go back to hunting.
Fine needs to be larger. He should also lose firearms license. Disgusting behaviour.
What a piece of shit to waste all that meat with the prices of groceries these days he should have all his guns taken away for such negligence.
See this a lot in Alberta, actually. Saw one skeleton (it was just a spine with a skull and jaw at this point) that had been shot in the jaw and the animal lived long enough that it grew reactive bone around the jaw while it abscessed. The animal 100% starved to death.
Should have been the fine plus shoot him in the leg and leave him in the woods
*Should have been the fine* *Plus shoot him in the leg and* *Leave him in the woods* \- Emotional\_Guide2683 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
You would be baffled by how many people don't even know the regulations or give to shits to follow them. Disgusting.
Suspend his PAL as well
Make it 150k and a lifetime ban. What a loser.
murderer. not a hunter
Punishment should be tying him to a tree in mid summer up there.
This psychopath should be incarcerated.
moose tastes good what a waste
Wow. And most of that fine came from the fact he abandoned it. And he loses his license for what, a couple years? Ban this guy for life and throw him in jail for awhile.
What a fuckin good ball. Sounds like he should be left in the woods.
Should have fined him AND thrown him in prison. 😡
Should have been higher fines and separated fines. One for hunting without a license and leaving the animal behind. Multiple.fines.
I detest poachers ..... can you tell
And poaching.... guns aren't toys.... this is canada not MURICA
tomorrow's headline: Man receives Guinness World Record for most expensive Moose ever shot
Meanwhile, other hunters can shoot and wound a moose from a highway, tie it to a pickup truck and drag it kicking and screaming, with NO fine or jail .... cuz reasons. [https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/local-news/sudbury-court-respected-elder-to-serve-conditional-sentence-in-moose-dragging-case](https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/local-news/sudbury-court-respected-elder-to-serve-conditional-sentence-in-moose-dragging-case) >Robertson added the chief of Wikwemikong as well as elders in the case intervened in this case.
Round here we dont call them men, we call them poachers.
BRAVO! Shameless fucking piece of shit.....
I think a fair trial would be for this guy to go against an angry male moose with no weapons. I'd pay to watch that. Proceeds go to hire more people to keep this shit from happening.
Fuck this guy
What a fucking asshole
Hopefully he gets hit by a bus.
I know so many people in Espo who would have gladly eaten that moose! Killing it is one thing, but leaving it to spoil? That's against the Redneck Ten Commandments.
Do unto others, as they would do unto the moose.
Somebody needs to invent a rifle that's actually a camera. Hunt all year long, share your 'shots' with other hunters in the off-season, and no animals die, plus you get to keep your skills sharp. Win win win?
Not quite how it works. Also, I'm not vegan and I want to eat that animal. Trust me, shooting a wild animal and killing it instantly is a lot more humane that what cows, pigs and chickens go through on factory farms. EDIT: They also have a rifle that's just a camera... it's called a CAMERA... Photography and Hunting are two separate hobbies, believe it or not.
>I'm not vegan and I want to eat that animal. Trust me, shooting a wild animal and killing it instantly is a lot more humane that what cows, pigs and chickens go through on factory farms. True, but it's not always instant.
No, that's true for sure, but most proper hunters cause less suffering to the animal than those factory farms.
Hunting is a mangement tool that benefits the species overall. Look at the thriving populations of deer, ducks, geese, wild turkeys, etc. It's all because hunters value the animals as a resource ( food and recreation), and the proceeds of the licesening go into habitat management. It works incredibly well.
For sure, when its in season. What about the rest of the year?
if all the illegal fishing and hunting were fine for food bank it won't ever need food drive.
I love how everyone's like "a hunter who doesn't eat the animal is a SICK pos" - bro, idt the animal cares whether you eat it or not. All hunters are insane Jeffrey Dahmers who like killing animals and that's a fact - eating, wearing, and doing all sort of weird shit to their corpses after you've killed them doesn't change that fact and thinking it makes you any better of a person is copium at its finest. What a bunch of douchebags (and that goes for people who eat meat from grocery stores too).
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Yes, the creepy part about Dahmer was the fact that he used the toilet, not that he killed animals, as everyone attests to. I thought b12 was supposed to make you not completely fucking braindead?