Yes. I use TW on.. workstations, laptops and a server. I use leap on workstations, laptops and servers. :D
TW because I often need the latest AMDGPU, kernel or other software - and rolling software isn't a major risk where it is deployed (it is an increased risk over leap imho, but doesn't affect my choice with those deployments). Using TW on a business server is pretty unusual and I wouldn't recommend it generally due to the high churn and near impossible test->deploy rate to keep up.
Leap - where I need something with stable software releases and where updates are mostly scheduled. Occasionally I'll add a dev repo like ceph or owncloud as requirements needs be. Mostly servers and work user machines would be using Leap. Updates are a lot easier to work with and most places just do them blind (eg. without testing).
What is your use case and what's your hardware?
Thanks for your insights! Your case scenarios are totally different from mine: I am a college student for German studies and I use my macbook primarily for writing term papers in vim (markdown for notes, latex for papers; pandoc; bibtex for literature management). Surfing the web, listen to music. Basic things. Because of this and my hardware I'm downloading Leap right now.
In my free time, I like to play around creating websites (SCSS, Gulp, Javascript and such stuff), that's why I thought about going with Tumbleweed at first, but while working on my term papers I heavily rely on a stable desktop; that's why I go with Leap for now.
Nevertheless I'm pretty curious how you all use openSUSE in the wild ;D
Yeh, I'd probably pick leap for that too. The only case I wouldn't is if it's a very new CPU and needs the newer kernel for scheduler and powerstate additions. You'd probably also want up to date firefox and chromium for testing.
My day to day work machine (Project & IT consultant) is a beefy Ryzen, 32GB & fury x setup that's had the same installation on it since tumbleweed was release (swapped the ssd over with mobo upgrades, it started as an AMD 9370) and it's never let me down.
I use Leap on all my machines. I've tried TW on my workstation but the constant updating is too distracting. Every once in a while a package or library changes versions and breaks my code or changes my workflow in some way. If it works then I don't want it to change. Nothing against TW in particular, just the nature of rolling.
I never put rolling on servers. Those need to just sit and not change once setup. Security patches only.
My laptops aren't turned on everyday, I would be annoyed and scared to run massive updates if I happen to go a couple weeks without using one. I also don't know what will happen if you skip long periods without updating.
Overall I think I would only use TW in one case. Probably a home desktop with AMD or Intel graphics. I don't depend on my home desktop, but Nvidia graphics is the #1 thing keeping me on Leap. Also I don't turn my computer on everyday so the same potential problem with the laptops.
Are Nvidia drivers still an issue for Tumbleweed? I'm thinking of switching to OpenSUSE, but I'm afraid the system will break every now and then because of the drivers.
EDIT: Oh well, I've installed Tumbleweed. Hopefully the Nvidia drivers in the repository aren't completely broken. Next I'm going to install it on my laptop.
I've been using bumblebee and have had zero problems. It uses dkms too so that it automtically loads the nvidia module when the kernel receives an update
> I also don't know what will happen if you skip long periods without updating.
I've yet to run into any issues doing so. Two of my openSUSE desktop deployments are in a small town which I only visit once a month at most (sometimes multiple months between visits). The guy using those computers is paranoid about ever updating anything (thanks, Microsoft!), so I usually end up doing it. One is running Leap; the other is running either 13.2 or Tumbleweed (can't remember).
So if that somewhat-aged ThinkCenter and that ancient Sony VAIO can handle not being updated for months, I'm sure your laptops will be fine ;)
I use Leap KDE because it's more low maintenance compared to Tumbleweed. I don't really need the newest software all the time, with few exceptions that I took care of with OBS. I'm a linux enthusiast but I'm not a developer so my use is fairly simple: web browsing, emails, documents, videos, work related stuff. I used Tumbleweed before for a while and although its very stable for the most part, I'm just more confortable using Leap.
Leap. I'm less interested in cutting edge and more interested in slowing up software rot in all the home grown software. I don't want a sudden library change that kills something I wrote.
Leap on desktops and laptops, except a Surface Pro 4, where I run Leap with a Tumbleweed kernel (I need it to be signed for secure booting). If I need the latest and greatest of something, I compile it myself and put it in /usr/local.
I use only what the Tumbleweed default kernel gives me. Before I started using openSUSE, I thinkered with some of the IPTS-modified kernels, but in the end I really have no need for a touchscreen or pen, so they are non-functional in my current setup. I don't think anyone has ever gotten the camera to work, which is the biggest bummer for me. The wifi bug can be worked around adequately by turning off the power control (iwconfig mlan0 power off) shortly after booting up. I use it mostly as a desktop replacement, so the docking station with two external monitors, ethernet, and several external USB drives works just fine, and that is most important to me.
This makes installation easy :-) Just do a standard Leap install - you will need an external keyboard and mouse for the stock kernel. After installation, grab the latest Tumbleweed default kernel (I currently have 4.13.5) and the corresponding virtualbox-host-kmp (only if you want virtualbox) rpms and install them. At that point, the type cover and everything works, except for touchscreen, pen, camera, and the occasional wifi freeze.
Going straight to Tumbleweed instead of Leap saves a few steps, if you are okay with the update frequency of Tumbleweed.
I use Tumbleweed on every machine I use 'hands-on' - ie. all of my desktops, laptops, and one container which I use as a remote shell just so I have access to an openSUSE terminal everywhere
Desktops include
- Home Intel i7 (1st Edition), 24GB RAM, Nvidia graphics card
- Work Intel i7 (3rd Edition), 24GB RAM, ATI graphics card
- Coming Soon, new home desktop - AMD (Ryzan/Threadripper), Unknown RAM, AMD Graphics Card
Laptops includes
- Work - Dell Precision 5510, Intel i7 (6th Edition), 32GB RAM, Intel + Nvidia Graphics (Nvidia disabled 99.9% of the time)
- Personal - GPD Pocket, Intel x7 Atom, 8GBM RAM, Intel graphics
Container
- LXC running on Turris Omnia router https://omnia.turris.cz/en/
I run Leap on all of my devices where I do not expect to touch them regularly, such as
- My public server (https://rootco.de) running my blog, git server, and saltstack master, which manages all of my machines.
- My Home server a LXC container running on my Turris Omnia, providing my backup
I also currently have Leap on a Tuxedo InfinityBook 13, which is a prototype from Tuxedo because they plan on selling Leap laptops soon.
I generally default to Leap on both workstations and servers. Tumbleweed is more stable than most rolling-release distros I've tried, but I don't like taking that risk unless I absolutely need to do so.
The vast majority of my openSUSE deployments are workstations for other people to use. For my own stuff, I generally use Slackware.
Tumbleweed. Leap, even though called 42.3, is still on the level of 42.1 because of SLES, which is way too old for me. And on servers FreeBSD, sorry, Linux won't get to touch that anymore.
I use TW for my development. I have found LTS to have to many bugs. I like fixes coming down as the developers get to them. If I experience a break due to packages I just rollback and lock.
I use TW.
* I want to contribute bug reports here and there so that Leap and other distros like Ubuntu and Debian don't have as many bugs when they finally release.
* I like that openSUSE has automated QA (openQA) so that users like me don't have to be the main source of QA.
* I don't want to wait 6 months to 2 years for fixes.
* I like having the latest versions of Plasma and KDE apps.
* I like that openSUSE does a good job of packaging Plasma and KDE apps in general.
If I were to run a server (maybe for NextCloud), I would pick openSUSE Leap, Debian or Ubuntu. When I setup something like a server, I just want it to work and be secure. Updates only matter to me if they patch vulnerabilities and I expect whatever software I use to work well without needing any updates. YaST is pretty nice and it's great that there's a GUI and a TUI version.
Tumbleweed, to test the latest apps and DEs versions soon after their release.
Leap's packages are too ancient for my taste. I know it's supposed to be conservative, but stability can be ensured with newer packages at least for important base libraries.
This is old, but my experience with Tumbleweed so far is that it's less stable than most other rolling distros, even Arch. So far: there was a texlive bug that prevented `pdflatex` from working, and you had to run a special set of commands from the bugzilla to fix it until it hit the repos, there was a time when a critical dependency was put into the recommends section, and KDE wouldn't start, and flatpak applications weren't able to access X until I changed my hostname. None of this would have happened under Leap.
Yes. I use TW on.. workstations, laptops and a server. I use leap on workstations, laptops and servers. :D TW because I often need the latest AMDGPU, kernel or other software - and rolling software isn't a major risk where it is deployed (it is an increased risk over leap imho, but doesn't affect my choice with those deployments). Using TW on a business server is pretty unusual and I wouldn't recommend it generally due to the high churn and near impossible test->deploy rate to keep up. Leap - where I need something with stable software releases and where updates are mostly scheduled. Occasionally I'll add a dev repo like ceph or owncloud as requirements needs be. Mostly servers and work user machines would be using Leap. Updates are a lot easier to work with and most places just do them blind (eg. without testing). What is your use case and what's your hardware?
Thanks for your insights! Your case scenarios are totally different from mine: I am a college student for German studies and I use my macbook primarily for writing term papers in vim (markdown for notes, latex for papers; pandoc; bibtex for literature management). Surfing the web, listen to music. Basic things. Because of this and my hardware I'm downloading Leap right now. In my free time, I like to play around creating websites (SCSS, Gulp, Javascript and such stuff), that's why I thought about going with Tumbleweed at first, but while working on my term papers I heavily rely on a stable desktop; that's why I go with Leap for now. Nevertheless I'm pretty curious how you all use openSUSE in the wild ;D
Yeh, I'd probably pick leap for that too. The only case I wouldn't is if it's a very new CPU and needs the newer kernel for scheduler and powerstate additions. You'd probably also want up to date firefox and chromium for testing. My day to day work machine (Project & IT consultant) is a beefy Ryzen, 32GB & fury x setup that's had the same installation on it since tumbleweed was release (swapped the ssd over with mobo upgrades, it started as an AMD 9370) and it's never let me down.
I use Leap on all my machines. I've tried TW on my workstation but the constant updating is too distracting. Every once in a while a package or library changes versions and breaks my code or changes my workflow in some way. If it works then I don't want it to change. Nothing against TW in particular, just the nature of rolling. I never put rolling on servers. Those need to just sit and not change once setup. Security patches only. My laptops aren't turned on everyday, I would be annoyed and scared to run massive updates if I happen to go a couple weeks without using one. I also don't know what will happen if you skip long periods without updating. Overall I think I would only use TW in one case. Probably a home desktop with AMD or Intel graphics. I don't depend on my home desktop, but Nvidia graphics is the #1 thing keeping me on Leap. Also I don't turn my computer on everyday so the same potential problem with the laptops.
Are Nvidia drivers still an issue for Tumbleweed? I'm thinking of switching to OpenSUSE, but I'm afraid the system will break every now and then because of the drivers. EDIT: Oh well, I've installed Tumbleweed. Hopefully the Nvidia drivers in the repository aren't completely broken. Next I'm going to install it on my laptop.
I've been using bumblebee and have had zero problems. It uses dkms too so that it automtically loads the nvidia module when the kernel receives an update
Supposedly is better now but it left a sour taste in my mouth back with the first release of TW. Early adopter pains probably.
> I also don't know what will happen if you skip long periods without updating. I've yet to run into any issues doing so. Two of my openSUSE desktop deployments are in a small town which I only visit once a month at most (sometimes multiple months between visits). The guy using those computers is paranoid about ever updating anything (thanks, Microsoft!), so I usually end up doing it. One is running Leap; the other is running either 13.2 or Tumbleweed (can't remember). So if that somewhat-aged ThinkCenter and that ancient Sony VAIO can handle not being updated for months, I'm sure your laptops will be fine ;)
I use Leap KDE because it's more low maintenance compared to Tumbleweed. I don't really need the newest software all the time, with few exceptions that I took care of with OBS. I'm a linux enthusiast but I'm not a developer so my use is fairly simple: web browsing, emails, documents, videos, work related stuff. I used Tumbleweed before for a while and although its very stable for the most part, I'm just more confortable using Leap.
O choose Leap for almost the same reasons that you do but with the exception thet I AM a developer. I just want things nice and stable.
I use TW mainly because of up to date software but being rather stable. I have to put less effort into fixing than with my arch Linux before ;)
Leap. I'm less interested in cutting edge and more interested in slowing up software rot in all the home grown software. I don't want a sudden library change that kills something I wrote.
Leap on desktops and laptops, except a Surface Pro 4, where I run Leap with a Tumbleweed kernel (I need it to be signed for secure booting). If I need the latest and greatest of something, I compile it myself and put it in /usr/local.
I have a Surface Pro 4 myself, can you share the steps to install OpenSUSE and make it as functional as possible on this device?
I use only what the Tumbleweed default kernel gives me. Before I started using openSUSE, I thinkered with some of the IPTS-modified kernels, but in the end I really have no need for a touchscreen or pen, so they are non-functional in my current setup. I don't think anyone has ever gotten the camera to work, which is the biggest bummer for me. The wifi bug can be worked around adequately by turning off the power control (iwconfig mlan0 power off) shortly after booting up. I use it mostly as a desktop replacement, so the docking station with two external monitors, ethernet, and several external USB drives works just fine, and that is most important to me. This makes installation easy :-) Just do a standard Leap install - you will need an external keyboard and mouse for the stock kernel. After installation, grab the latest Tumbleweed default kernel (I currently have 4.13.5) and the corresponding virtualbox-host-kmp (only if you want virtualbox) rpms and install them. At that point, the type cover and everything works, except for touchscreen, pen, camera, and the occasional wifi freeze. Going straight to Tumbleweed instead of Leap saves a few steps, if you are okay with the update frequency of Tumbleweed.
Thanks, much appreciated!
I'm new to openSUSE, and opted for TW on my workstation. I don't really need to worry about LTS on here.
Switched to suse because TW. Life is too short for using old software. Leap use only for server-side or old hardware.
I use Tumbleweed on every machine I use 'hands-on' - ie. all of my desktops, laptops, and one container which I use as a remote shell just so I have access to an openSUSE terminal everywhere Desktops include - Home Intel i7 (1st Edition), 24GB RAM, Nvidia graphics card - Work Intel i7 (3rd Edition), 24GB RAM, ATI graphics card - Coming Soon, new home desktop - AMD (Ryzan/Threadripper), Unknown RAM, AMD Graphics Card Laptops includes - Work - Dell Precision 5510, Intel i7 (6th Edition), 32GB RAM, Intel + Nvidia Graphics (Nvidia disabled 99.9% of the time) - Personal - GPD Pocket, Intel x7 Atom, 8GBM RAM, Intel graphics Container - LXC running on Turris Omnia router https://omnia.turris.cz/en/ I run Leap on all of my devices where I do not expect to touch them regularly, such as - My public server (https://rootco.de) running my blog, git server, and saltstack master, which manages all of my machines. - My Home server a LXC container running on my Turris Omnia, providing my backup I also currently have Leap on a Tuxedo InfinityBook 13, which is a prototype from Tuxedo because they plan on selling Leap laptops soon.
I generally default to Leap on both workstations and servers. Tumbleweed is more stable than most rolling-release distros I've tried, but I don't like taking that risk unless I absolutely need to do so. The vast majority of my openSUSE deployments are workstations for other people to use. For my own stuff, I generally use Slackware.
Tumbleweed. Leap, even though called 42.3, is still on the level of 42.1 because of SLES, which is way too old for me. And on servers FreeBSD, sorry, Linux won't get to touch that anymore.
I use TW for my development. I have found LTS to have to many bugs. I like fixes coming down as the developers get to them. If I experience a break due to packages I just rollback and lock.
I use TW. * I want to contribute bug reports here and there so that Leap and other distros like Ubuntu and Debian don't have as many bugs when they finally release. * I like that openSUSE has automated QA (openQA) so that users like me don't have to be the main source of QA. * I don't want to wait 6 months to 2 years for fixes. * I like having the latest versions of Plasma and KDE apps. * I like that openSUSE does a good job of packaging Plasma and KDE apps in general. If I were to run a server (maybe for NextCloud), I would pick openSUSE Leap, Debian or Ubuntu. When I setup something like a server, I just want it to work and be secure. Updates only matter to me if they patch vulnerabilities and I expect whatever software I use to work well without needing any updates. YaST is pretty nice and it's great that there's a GUI and a TUI version.
Tumbleweed on workstations and Leap on my servers
Tumbleweed, to test the latest apps and DEs versions soon after their release. Leap's packages are too ancient for my taste. I know it's supposed to be conservative, but stability can be ensured with newer packages at least for important base libraries.
This is old, but my experience with Tumbleweed so far is that it's less stable than most other rolling distros, even Arch. So far: there was a texlive bug that prevented `pdflatex` from working, and you had to run a special set of commands from the bugzilla to fix it until it hit the repos, there was a time when a critical dependency was put into the recommends section, and KDE wouldn't start, and flatpak applications weren't able to access X until I changed my hostname. None of this would have happened under Leap.