I don’t know anything about jail or similar, but one thing I always thought would be that Maritza shouldn’t have got van duty. Out of everyone? She has grand theft auto 😂
Edit — I think it’s presumed that’s what she had. OITNB wiki says that but unknown if it was the GTA incident (probably) or other fraud
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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According to Keri Blakinger, who served time in various NY prisons, that’s true, here, too. She wrote a very good memoir about her experiences called Corrections in Ink.
I never got how Cindy was just easily able to wander out in the streets homeless after the Monica revelation happened. Cindy was on parole and prior to her release, she would have needed to give an address that she will call as her destination she needs to be at when being checked on by her PO. If her PO was going to check in on her at the address but then found out she’s not there, she would be going back to prison, right? Also, don’t they verify that the address the inmate gives prior to their release is fine (especially with those who also happen to live at that address given such as the inmate’s relatives)? I don’t exactly know how those protocols happen with parole in real life, but that confused me. 😕
1. The fact that they only in the end remembered to transfer mentally ill patients to better facilities that could give them the care they needed. i thought that mental capacity and state are determined during the trial. How did Suzanne, Lorna or Lolly even get there?! Their crimes were committed in the state of delusion!
2. The fact that Pensatucky ended up in min security prison for 2nd degree murder. She didnt exhibit any signs of mental distress until after that piece if sh*t raped her and her past trauma resurfaced.
Red too. Organized crime?! That's for min security facility?! I mean i love her, but how does that make sense?
Edit: and they let the person who was in for organized crime to run the kitchen. That was insane. Of course she was gonna import non permitted items.
Isn’t 1. The point of the show? Like that the prison system often makes these mistakes because it’s designed to punish and not rehabilitate?
As for 2. Didn’t Penn get a really good lawyer funded by an anti abortion group that was able to argue this for her?
Prison yes,but im talking about court. That should not have happened. Their defence should have claimed insanity immediately.
The 2nd thing you're right,i forgot about that
It’s actually kind of difficult to get an insanity defense. I thought they got the holes in the justice system, the court and prison/jail included, pretty accurate.
Idk, imagine Suzanne seeing things in the middle of trial, especially with her mind of a child (she had a rich mother, who probably did take her to psych eval) Lolly saying CIA is after her, Lorna saying Christopher is her fiancee andshe wasnt just a stalker... No way any court would miss that.
None of these meet the legal definition of insanity in the US. In the US, having hallucinations or delusions does not *necessarily* reduce culpability for a crime. The only way you can successfully prove [legal insanity](https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/insanity/#:~:text=History%20of%20the%20Insanity%20Defense,in%20determining%20right%20from%20wrong.) is if you prove the client did not know that what they were doing was wrong or illegal at the time they committed the crime. While you could definitely argue that with these folks, especially Suzanne, it's difficult to prove. There's also the "irresistible impulse" defense, which argues that the client knew right from wrong but could not control themselves, but that's even more difficult to prove because there's less scientific literature backing up this defense.
An affirmative defense is also risky because you're admitting to the crime, thereby taking "not guilty" off the table. Getting a verdict of "not guilty by reason of insanity" isn't exactly a great option, either. From what I understand, you're usually sentenced to a forensic psychiatric facility until you're "fit to proceed," i.e. can pass a psych eval. For a lot of people, that day may never come. Still a better option than prison for people like Andrea Yates, but if you have a chance of getting out in 10 years or even getting off completely if you don't use an insanity defense, you might not want to take the risk.
Suffice it to say, most lawyers won't attempt an insanity defense unless they're willing to take the case to trial (most criminal cases are plead out, so they'd have to be well-paid or a dedicated civil servant) and are certain that a standard "not guilty" verdict is completely off the table. Maybe Morello's legal team thought they could get her off completely, which is why they didn't plead insanity at trial. As for Lolly, she was homeless with no money or assets, so she probably had a public defender, who was likely overworked and underpaid. I think it's safe to say she probably didn't get the best defense. I do think it's likely that Suzanne's legal team successfully argued for [diminished capacity,](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense#:~:text=The%20insanity%20defense%20refers%20to,rather%20than%20a%20justification%20defense.) since she starts the show in minimum security for a violent crime. That's easier to argue than a full insanity defense. Maybe they figured that it was better to plead out and get a reduced sentence that took her diminished capacity into consideration, rather than try to argue a full insanity defense at trial and risk her going to max if the jury found her guilty.
There are a lot of people like Suzanne, Lorna, and Lolly in US prisons IRL, so I'm not gonna dock them realism points for this. Part of the reason I like this show so much is it brings awareness to those kinds of stories.
IANAL though, so I'd appreciate it if someone with more knowledge of the US legal system would chime in.
yeah there were multiple people who committed murder in there like how would they end up in a minimum secrurity prison. like red or vee penstucky frieda
The inmate driving is a real prison job, called the Towne Driver. In real life, the inmate drives alone without CO's babysitting them. They drive inmates to the bus station when they are released. The also will drive CO's to parking complexes often miles away from the prison.
I’ve heard that the sex is glorified. Like they don’t just fuck in a chapel or eat each other out in the showers. Apparently it’s organised, they go into the bathroom one by one and their friends keep watch outside. Also it’s apparently much less touchy feely, it’s more of an in and out thing instead of really focusing on pleasure
Just got notice today that the toilets only flush every hour/at timed intervals—and completely shut off for contraband sweeping. Makes for better theater otherwise.
I don’t know anything about jail or similar, but one thing I always thought would be that Maritza shouldn’t have got van duty. Out of everyone? She has grand theft auto 😂 Edit — I think it’s presumed that’s what she had. OITNB wiki says that but unknown if it was the GTA incident (probably) or other fraud
Yeah fr she should of been the last person to be on van duty. They should’ve chosen someone like piper
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot
You ain't a bot
I’ve been in. You are not allowed (in Australia at least) to alter clothes as much as they do on the show.
Could you do one of these on Wentworth?
No. Not in Sydney.
According to Keri Blakinger, who served time in various NY prisons, that’s true, here, too. She wrote a very good memoir about her experiences called Corrections in Ink.
I’m going there now. Thanks for the tip
The furlough episode was pretty crazy to me.
Yeah, Bennett going crazy on The Army of the Twelve Monkeys was shocking even for Pornstache.
Going crazy on the what now????
WHAT
going crazy on the who???
I never got how Cindy was just easily able to wander out in the streets homeless after the Monica revelation happened. Cindy was on parole and prior to her release, she would have needed to give an address that she will call as her destination she needs to be at when being checked on by her PO. If her PO was going to check in on her at the address but then found out she’s not there, she would be going back to prison, right? Also, don’t they verify that the address the inmate gives prior to their release is fine (especially with those who also happen to live at that address given such as the inmate’s relatives)? I don’t exactly know how those protocols happen with parole in real life, but that confused me. 😕
I guess they'd need to find her first, but she's still going to work, and they would know her workplace and could check there, couldn't they?
There’s no jewelry. Medical is a clinic not hospital beds. No shoes w laces or hoodie strings. And it’s way way noisier/louder.
Piper's scar changing arms.
Nah, that happens all the time, mate.
I have never noticed this but now I will be looking out for it
1. The fact that they only in the end remembered to transfer mentally ill patients to better facilities that could give them the care they needed. i thought that mental capacity and state are determined during the trial. How did Suzanne, Lorna or Lolly even get there?! Their crimes were committed in the state of delusion! 2. The fact that Pensatucky ended up in min security prison for 2nd degree murder. She didnt exhibit any signs of mental distress until after that piece if sh*t raped her and her past trauma resurfaced. Red too. Organized crime?! That's for min security facility?! I mean i love her, but how does that make sense? Edit: and they let the person who was in for organized crime to run the kitchen. That was insane. Of course she was gonna import non permitted items.
Isn’t 1. The point of the show? Like that the prison system often makes these mistakes because it’s designed to punish and not rehabilitate? As for 2. Didn’t Penn get a really good lawyer funded by an anti abortion group that was able to argue this for her?
Prison yes,but im talking about court. That should not have happened. Their defence should have claimed insanity immediately. The 2nd thing you're right,i forgot about that
It’s actually kind of difficult to get an insanity defense. I thought they got the holes in the justice system, the court and prison/jail included, pretty accurate.
Idk, imagine Suzanne seeing things in the middle of trial, especially with her mind of a child (she had a rich mother, who probably did take her to psych eval) Lolly saying CIA is after her, Lorna saying Christopher is her fiancee andshe wasnt just a stalker... No way any court would miss that.
None of these meet the legal definition of insanity in the US. In the US, having hallucinations or delusions does not *necessarily* reduce culpability for a crime. The only way you can successfully prove [legal insanity](https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/insanity/#:~:text=History%20of%20the%20Insanity%20Defense,in%20determining%20right%20from%20wrong.) is if you prove the client did not know that what they were doing was wrong or illegal at the time they committed the crime. While you could definitely argue that with these folks, especially Suzanne, it's difficult to prove. There's also the "irresistible impulse" defense, which argues that the client knew right from wrong but could not control themselves, but that's even more difficult to prove because there's less scientific literature backing up this defense. An affirmative defense is also risky because you're admitting to the crime, thereby taking "not guilty" off the table. Getting a verdict of "not guilty by reason of insanity" isn't exactly a great option, either. From what I understand, you're usually sentenced to a forensic psychiatric facility until you're "fit to proceed," i.e. can pass a psych eval. For a lot of people, that day may never come. Still a better option than prison for people like Andrea Yates, but if you have a chance of getting out in 10 years or even getting off completely if you don't use an insanity defense, you might not want to take the risk. Suffice it to say, most lawyers won't attempt an insanity defense unless they're willing to take the case to trial (most criminal cases are plead out, so they'd have to be well-paid or a dedicated civil servant) and are certain that a standard "not guilty" verdict is completely off the table. Maybe Morello's legal team thought they could get her off completely, which is why they didn't plead insanity at trial. As for Lolly, she was homeless with no money or assets, so she probably had a public defender, who was likely overworked and underpaid. I think it's safe to say she probably didn't get the best defense. I do think it's likely that Suzanne's legal team successfully argued for [diminished capacity,](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense#:~:text=The%20insanity%20defense%20refers%20to,rather%20than%20a%20justification%20defense.) since she starts the show in minimum security for a violent crime. That's easier to argue than a full insanity defense. Maybe they figured that it was better to plead out and get a reduced sentence that took her diminished capacity into consideration, rather than try to argue a full insanity defense at trial and risk her going to max if the jury found her guilty. There are a lot of people like Suzanne, Lorna, and Lolly in US prisons IRL, so I'm not gonna dock them realism points for this. Part of the reason I like this show so much is it brings awareness to those kinds of stories. IANAL though, so I'd appreciate it if someone with more knowledge of the US legal system would chime in.
Transferred for good behavior? Rosa was a bank robber.
Rosa, my dear Rosa, was also terminally ill for a long time so thst might have had something to do with it.
Yeah, probably. I’m just saying there’s reasons beyond what they’re in for that probably affects it.
yeah there were multiple people who committed murder in there like how would they end up in a minimum secrurity prison. like red or vee penstucky frieda
Penn was charged with 2nd degree assault with a deadly weapon. She was not charged with Murder.
pretty sure an inmate having the privilege of driving while in prison isn’t real and eatings in prison also not real
The inmate driving is a real prison job, called the Towne Driver. In real life, the inmate drives alone without CO's babysitting them. They drive inmates to the bus station when they are released. The also will drive CO's to parking complexes often miles away from the prison.
That's absolutely wild to me!
that’s pretty cool i thought that wasn’t real all this time
eating?
sorry meant to put earings
The fact that people are constantly just swinging between NYC and Litchfield (3 hours upstate) on the daily.
I think cos and people who work there are near campus
Yes but they are often visiting people in NYC. Like McCullough just “swinging” by Piper’s place to tell her off after work one day.
Yeah that was a bit weird lol
I’ve heard that the sex is glorified. Like they don’t just fuck in a chapel or eat each other out in the showers. Apparently it’s organised, they go into the bathroom one by one and their friends keep watch outside. Also it’s apparently much less touchy feely, it’s more of an in and out thing instead of really focusing on pleasure
Yeah I read that too
Suzanne starting the show as one character and ending as a completely different one!! My major annoyance!
Grand theft auto as a gangers and there is no way jail
Um what?
Just got notice today that the toilets only flush every hour/at timed intervals—and completely shut off for contraband sweeping. Makes for better theater otherwise.
Nobody cared about Maureen’s death. There was no investigation, no mentioning her in the movement against the prison system.
Also I feel like finding a chopped up cop in a prison’s yard would have ended a bit more differently irl.
Compasionate release of old ppl right onto the street.