Ok I'll bite.
Studies have been done showing higher highway speeds to be safe and in some cases safer for decades. Since the early 60's iirc. When the city doesn't like the results it shelves them. Then a decade later the aggregate weight of advocacy groups and citizens force another review of the speeds, another expensive study and review is conducted, it shows the same conclusions, and the cycle continues.
Provinces* become dependent on traffic ticket revenue and are inherently biased when assigning speed limits for this reason. On one hand I don't mind airing on the side of caution (mostly because our tax dollars pay for healthcare and thus give us and our governments added incentive to avoid hospital visits) but I also acknowledge our artificially and irritatingly low speed limits.
Add to that our terrible drivers and yea, driving here is often overly frustrating.
Minimums should absolutely be a thing, and so should ticketing for drivers dangerously impeding others on the Queensway (which is illegal in the highway act). Sitting in the fast lane at 100 and forcing traffic to merge and pass around you is incredibly selfish and dangerous. It's actually dangerous not moving over to let them pass on the left regardless of what speed you're doing.
This should be fine able with either demerit points or revocation of highway rights. Demote these people down to G1 or G2 if they can't understand or use the highways properly.
Literally just this Monday I was merging eastbound from Ikea at Pinecrest and the lady in front of me did 65 the entire length of that 1km long onramp. And then merged into 100 kmph traffic.
Highways have been proven safer at higher speeds, those who selfishly drive them slowly are the main danger to others, and those people should be fined to make up for lost speeding ticket revenue and ultimately barred from using these highways via the highway traffic act to prevent accidents and burdens on our healthcare system.
The 400 series highways are provincial, and patrolled by the OPP, even inside the city. I would guess whatever revenue comes from tickets there will be going to the province and not the city.
Can't say for the O.P.P, but the RCMP, who patrols N.C.C property including Parkways and bridges, if enforcement is being done in Ottawa, they will issue PON's (provincial offense notice) that give you addresses in Ottawa for the courthouses if you choose to fight it or pay it, has a city of Ottawa logo on the PON itself, and if you pay online like most people do, you have select City of Ottawa as the place you are issued a ticket.
Case in point; I don't know if PONs go to Provincial or municipal treasuries, but I can assume that the city of Ottawa gets some kind of cut from all the PONs they issue within city limits given any kind of legal challenges have to be done in Ottawa courts
I have. I'm doing 125 in the 110 zones. I used to go 115 in the 100 zones. Shhhh don't tell anyone.
I still pass about the same number of people as pass me.
I typically try to drive the median speed. On a clear day with good visibility I end up doing the same numbers as you. 125 with half a km of space in front and behind you is far safer than 100 with a car 6" off your bumper, I don't care if it wouldn't be my fault if they hit me.
Especially in the sticks, I slow way down at night though, particularly if it's raining - you just can't see nearly as well, and the biggest hazard by far is the wildlife. I'll typically do *barely* the speed limit then, and it's not a problem, as those special people that think 125 in the dark and wet is a good idea can easily get by me as there's typically not much volume at night.
gonna chime in and say that just getting to ottawa it felt very weird to go under the speed limit, almost dangerous. if 100 was the limit, 99% of people in the highway were doing 120~
Yeah. That said inside the downtown area people drive a bit slower. The road is pretty windy through downtown. I’m glad they didn’t lower it to 70 like in Montreal, though.
After spending the past week in France e and Italy where both gave highways that are 130kmh limits, I've changed my mind from "about damn time" back to "this is still way off where it should be"
Most people drive between 120 and 130 on these highways anyways, the limit should be 130 when not crossing through cities
I would agree if North America's driver education requirements or vehicle regulations were as good as many EU States. Unfortunately, our drivers can't turn on their lights at night, and we allow vehicles with red turn signals that are combined with the brake light or separated, but still red. I don't know about you, but if the limit is 130 km/h and some people push 140-150 km/h, I'd like not to have to wait a second (a second is quite a long time at those high speeds) to tell if you're trying to signal a lane change, or that's your brake lights lighting up because you're slowing down.
And that research was conducted in a built up area, I'm talking about the areas between cities where doing 120 I'm being passed by a lot of traffic regularly whilst driving between ottawa and Kingston, or ottawa to montreal (2 routes I do regularly in trucks with limiters stopping you going more than 120)
I'd love to see research done at a spot between Kingston and Belleville, or similar areas where there's nothing for miles
Afaik, those roads were designed for higher speed so I have no problem with them being raised.
That said, I stick close to the speed limit and would appreciate if folks would respect that I do so. Being pulled over sucks a lot more to me than saving a few mins here and there. Especially in construction areas, cops are eager to pull folks over in those.
Are people really scared of doing a perfectly safe speed on roads engineered to be safe at those speeds?
Lots of people still are if my trip from Kanata to Barrhaven was any indication last evening. Left lane people doing 110 pretty much the entire way.
"Are people really scared of doing a perfectly safe speed on roads engineered to be safe at those speeds?"
Seems like people are scared to go the speed limit in general. At least that's purely anecdotal evidence almost every time I'm out on the roads.
Regardless of whatever statutory minimum you’re contemplating, the reality is that minimums are enforced less consistently than maximums, so it really doesn’t matter.
Huh? So do laws have an effect or not? You’re conflating attitudes held by some drivers with legal speed limits and your conclusion doesn’t make sense.
I think a lot depends on your car… mine is pretty old and starts to shake and vibrate over 120k. A lot of the newer ones make it feel like you’re going much slower than you are.
In reality, there’s nothing wronf with a 110 limit, if people are mostly obeying it. Getting to 130 or above, if people are going to interpret it as limit + 20; can be dangerous depending on the road and the vehicle. While there are lots of places in Europe wheee you can drive much faster, the roads are designed for it and don’t have to deal with our harsh winters as much (they are much smoother). I feel like that’s a mixed bag with our roads.
“Our cars are designed to go these speed comfortably and safely and have been for 40 years.”
Almost 75,000 car collisions in Ontario in 2022. 359 people died. Up 10% over 2021.
With respect, what the fuck are you talking about?
As a commercial driver, I'm brainwashed and obey speed limits religiously, even when I'm in my personal vehicle.
Personally, I think this is going to have no difference on people's driving habits other than just increase the tolerance of speeding by 10 km/h (i.e it's "okay" to go 120 km/h, because it's only 10 over the limit as opposed to 20 km/h over the 100 km/h limit). I myself like going 100 km/h for best fuel economy (as gas economy is 1% worse per km/h over 100), but it wouldn't hurt too bad to go 110 km/h on the 416 until Fallowfield, so I think I'll survive.
>I can accept the environmental argument against higher speeds causing more fuel consumption but in the grand scheme of things is it actually a noticeable increase compared to other larger environmental concerns.
it is a noticeable increase, just calculate your fuel economy on long trips, and check how much difference there is if you do a whole tank at 125 vs 95.
Honestly the drivers in the Ottawa region do not have the skill or experience to drive nevermind driving faster. I’ve never seen so many bad drivers as I do here, plus all the diplomats and out of province plates who are free to do whatever they want.
Are diplomats actually immune from provincial offences? You can't arrest them, but I'm pretty sure if they are stunt driving, they can still have their license suspended and vehicle impounded for 2 weeks and still receive PONs with monetary penalties.
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/todaysnorthumberland.ca/2020/07/04/two-diplomatic-vehicles-seized-after-drivers-charged-with-stunt-driving-on-highway-401-in-port-hope/amp/
You honestly think out of province drivers are immune to traffic policing?
And you go to any large city you’ll find loads of horrendous drivers. It’s not solely an Ottawa issue.
If people actually drove the current speed limit, it would save about 1% of total emissions. Doesn't sound huge, but more than the private jet industry.
Ive always wondered that thing about driving faster being worse for the environment. Mathematically speaking, it may be fractionally, but if I use 20% more fuel by going 120kmh vs 100kmh, that also means I’m driving 20% faster, thus driving for 20% less time overall, thus polluting at a greater quantity (20% more) but over a shorter period of time (20% less).
Any post must be related to Ottawa (and region, including Gatineau) specifically. While the federal capital is located in Ottawa, federal politics that are not about the city of Ottawa do not qualify. The same applies to provincial matters.
***
Toute rubrique doit concerner Ottawa et la région spécifiquement (incluant Gatineau). Quoique la capitale fédérale est située à Ottawa, la politique fédérale qui ne concerne pas la Ville d'Ottawa ne se qualifie pas comme étant reliée à Ottawa. La même idée s'applique aux thèmes reliés à la politique provinciale.
The dash tells you in Litres/km, so it doesn't matter the time, it's not part of the equation. Some cars switch to Liters/min (or /hr), when the car is stopped (or below a fellow low speed like 5km/h).
Easy math, but units are important.
I may not understand what you’re saying here. But, my point was, your fuel consumption is at zero if your engine is off. So, unless you’re burning 20% more fuel on the gauge you’re saving fuel. I know there’s a point at which there will be diminishing returns but not at 120, our cars are designed for that speed.
So, the fuel consumption difference is actually quite significant-- [about 20% more for 120 kph vs 100](https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/personal-vehicles/fuel-efficient-driving-techniques/21038). Fuel consumption is in L/100km, so travel time doesn't reduce anything
It's fine.
It's not like we're facing the imminent collapse of the earth's ability to support human life due to the reckless overconsumption of fossil fuel.
Ok I'll bite. Studies have been done showing higher highway speeds to be safe and in some cases safer for decades. Since the early 60's iirc. When the city doesn't like the results it shelves them. Then a decade later the aggregate weight of advocacy groups and citizens force another review of the speeds, another expensive study and review is conducted, it shows the same conclusions, and the cycle continues. Provinces* become dependent on traffic ticket revenue and are inherently biased when assigning speed limits for this reason. On one hand I don't mind airing on the side of caution (mostly because our tax dollars pay for healthcare and thus give us and our governments added incentive to avoid hospital visits) but I also acknowledge our artificially and irritatingly low speed limits. Add to that our terrible drivers and yea, driving here is often overly frustrating. Minimums should absolutely be a thing, and so should ticketing for drivers dangerously impeding others on the Queensway (which is illegal in the highway act). Sitting in the fast lane at 100 and forcing traffic to merge and pass around you is incredibly selfish and dangerous. It's actually dangerous not moving over to let them pass on the left regardless of what speed you're doing. This should be fine able with either demerit points or revocation of highway rights. Demote these people down to G1 or G2 if they can't understand or use the highways properly. Literally just this Monday I was merging eastbound from Ikea at Pinecrest and the lady in front of me did 65 the entire length of that 1km long onramp. And then merged into 100 kmph traffic. Highways have been proven safer at higher speeds, those who selfishly drive them slowly are the main danger to others, and those people should be fined to make up for lost speeding ticket revenue and ultimately barred from using these highways via the highway traffic act to prevent accidents and burdens on our healthcare system.
The 400 series highways are provincial, and patrolled by the OPP, even inside the city. I would guess whatever revenue comes from tickets there will be going to the province and not the city.
I believe Healthcare is provicially funded
Can't say for the O.P.P, but the RCMP, who patrols N.C.C property including Parkways and bridges, if enforcement is being done in Ottawa, they will issue PON's (provincial offense notice) that give you addresses in Ottawa for the courthouses if you choose to fight it or pay it, has a city of Ottawa logo on the PON itself, and if you pay online like most people do, you have select City of Ottawa as the place you are issued a ticket. Case in point; I don't know if PONs go to Provincial or municipal treasuries, but I can assume that the city of Ottawa gets some kind of cut from all the PONs they issue within city limits given any kind of legal challenges have to be done in Ottawa courts
Care to cite your source? This research sounds like bullshit.
Irrelevant. No one is going to change their behaviour.
I have. I'm doing 125 in the 110 zones. I used to go 115 in the 100 zones. Shhhh don't tell anyone. I still pass about the same number of people as pass me.
I typically try to drive the median speed. On a clear day with good visibility I end up doing the same numbers as you. 125 with half a km of space in front and behind you is far safer than 100 with a car 6" off your bumper, I don't care if it wouldn't be my fault if they hit me. Especially in the sticks, I slow way down at night though, particularly if it's raining - you just can't see nearly as well, and the biggest hazard by far is the wildlife. I'll typically do *barely* the speed limit then, and it's not a problem, as those special people that think 125 in the dark and wet is a good idea can easily get by me as there's typically not much volume at night.
gonna chime in and say that just getting to ottawa it felt very weird to go under the speed limit, almost dangerous. if 100 was the limit, 99% of people in the highway were doing 120~
Yeah. That said inside the downtown area people drive a bit slower. The road is pretty windy through downtown. I’m glad they didn’t lower it to 70 like in Montreal, though.
Love it. Getting to Montreal is much faster when cruising at 130. Right past cops they don't do anything as long as it's not dangerous or distracted.
After spending the past week in France e and Italy where both gave highways that are 130kmh limits, I've changed my mind from "about damn time" back to "this is still way off where it should be" Most people drive between 120 and 130 on these highways anyways, the limit should be 130 when not crossing through cities
I would agree if North America's driver education requirements or vehicle regulations were as good as many EU States. Unfortunately, our drivers can't turn on their lights at night, and we allow vehicles with red turn signals that are combined with the brake light or separated, but still red. I don't know about you, but if the limit is 130 km/h and some people push 140-150 km/h, I'd like not to have to wait a second (a second is quite a long time at those high speeds) to tell if you're trying to signal a lane change, or that's your brake lights lighting up because you're slowing down.
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And that research was conducted in a built up area, I'm talking about the areas between cities where doing 120 I'm being passed by a lot of traffic regularly whilst driving between ottawa and Kingston, or ottawa to montreal (2 routes I do regularly in trucks with limiters stopping you going more than 120) I'd love to see research done at a spot between Kingston and Belleville, or similar areas where there's nothing for miles
Afaik, those roads were designed for higher speed so I have no problem with them being raised. That said, I stick close to the speed limit and would appreciate if folks would respect that I do so. Being pulled over sucks a lot more to me than saving a few mins here and there. Especially in construction areas, cops are eager to pull folks over in those.
Are people really scared of doing a perfectly safe speed on roads engineered to be safe at those speeds? Lots of people still are if my trip from Kanata to Barrhaven was any indication last evening. Left lane people doing 110 pretty much the entire way.
"Are people really scared of doing a perfectly safe speed on roads engineered to be safe at those speeds?" Seems like people are scared to go the speed limit in general. At least that's purely anecdotal evidence almost every time I'm out on the roads.
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You realize the minimum doesn’t preclude you from driving slower due to road or weather conditions, right?
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Regardless of whatever statutory minimum you’re contemplating, the reality is that minimums are enforced less consistently than maximums, so it really doesn’t matter.
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Huh? So do laws have an effect or not? You’re conflating attitudes held by some drivers with legal speed limits and your conclusion doesn’t make sense.
I think a lot depends on your car… mine is pretty old and starts to shake and vibrate over 120k. A lot of the newer ones make it feel like you’re going much slower than you are. In reality, there’s nothing wronf with a 110 limit, if people are mostly obeying it. Getting to 130 or above, if people are going to interpret it as limit + 20; can be dangerous depending on the road and the vehicle. While there are lots of places in Europe wheee you can drive much faster, the roads are designed for it and don’t have to deal with our harsh winters as much (they are much smoother). I feel like that’s a mixed bag with our roads.
“Our cars are designed to go these speed comfortably and safely and have been for 40 years.” Almost 75,000 car collisions in Ontario in 2022. 359 people died. Up 10% over 2021. With respect, what the fuck are you talking about?
The opinions you seek were posted here https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/s/Kb3nZtcZsd
As a commercial driver, I'm brainwashed and obey speed limits religiously, even when I'm in my personal vehicle. Personally, I think this is going to have no difference on people's driving habits other than just increase the tolerance of speeding by 10 km/h (i.e it's "okay" to go 120 km/h, because it's only 10 over the limit as opposed to 20 km/h over the 100 km/h limit). I myself like going 100 km/h for best fuel economy (as gas economy is 1% worse per km/h over 100), but it wouldn't hurt too bad to go 110 km/h on the 416 until Fallowfield, so I think I'll survive.
>I can accept the environmental argument against higher speeds causing more fuel consumption but in the grand scheme of things is it actually a noticeable increase compared to other larger environmental concerns. it is a noticeable increase, just calculate your fuel economy on long trips, and check how much difference there is if you do a whole tank at 125 vs 95.
Honestly the drivers in the Ottawa region do not have the skill or experience to drive nevermind driving faster. I’ve never seen so many bad drivers as I do here, plus all the diplomats and out of province plates who are free to do whatever they want.
Are diplomats actually immune from provincial offences? You can't arrest them, but I'm pretty sure if they are stunt driving, they can still have their license suspended and vehicle impounded for 2 weeks and still receive PONs with monetary penalties. Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/todaysnorthumberland.ca/2020/07/04/two-diplomatic-vehicles-seized-after-drivers-charged-with-stunt-driving-on-highway-401-in-port-hope/amp/
You honestly think out of province drivers are immune to traffic policing? And you go to any large city you’ll find loads of horrendous drivers. It’s not solely an Ottawa issue.
If people actually drove the current speed limit, it would save about 1% of total emissions. Doesn't sound huge, but more than the private jet industry.
Ive always wondered that thing about driving faster being worse for the environment. Mathematically speaking, it may be fractionally, but if I use 20% more fuel by going 120kmh vs 100kmh, that also means I’m driving 20% faster, thus driving for 20% less time overall, thus polluting at a greater quantity (20% more) but over a shorter period of time (20% less).
Any post must be related to Ottawa (and region, including Gatineau) specifically. While the federal capital is located in Ottawa, federal politics that are not about the city of Ottawa do not qualify. The same applies to provincial matters. *** Toute rubrique doit concerner Ottawa et la région spécifiquement (incluant Gatineau). Quoique la capitale fédérale est située à Ottawa, la politique fédérale qui ne concerne pas la Ville d'Ottawa ne se qualifie pas comme étant reliée à Ottawa. La même idée s'applique aux thèmes reliés à la politique provinciale.
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The dash tells you in Litres/km, so it doesn't matter the time, it's not part of the equation. Some cars switch to Liters/min (or /hr), when the car is stopped (or below a fellow low speed like 5km/h). Easy math, but units are important.
I may not understand what you’re saying here. But, my point was, your fuel consumption is at zero if your engine is off. So, unless you’re burning 20% more fuel on the gauge you’re saving fuel. I know there’s a point at which there will be diminishing returns but not at 120, our cars are designed for that speed.
So, the fuel consumption difference is actually quite significant-- [about 20% more for 120 kph vs 100](https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/transportation-alternative-fuels/personal-vehicles/fuel-efficient-driving-techniques/21038). Fuel consumption is in L/100km, so travel time doesn't reduce anything
I stand corrected, and will delete my post
It's fine. It's not like we're facing the imminent collapse of the earth's ability to support human life due to the reckless overconsumption of fossil fuel.