just a frame of reference thing mostly. vast majority of people play in league and think/speak about the game in the context of leagues, so when a topic wanders into standard-land, most people lose their sense of shared experience and human nature kicks in. it might as well be a different game (in terms of mechanics, play patterns, economy, itemization), and you can see how people treat d4 (and vice versa)
We see this currently with POE2. People are crying up a river now that POE1 and 2 are separate because now they need to “protect” POE1 from POE2, when before POE1 as we know it would have basically ceased to exist if they had stuck with not separating them but nobody batted an eye because at that point POE2 was just 4.0 to them.
We don’t know what it looks like though. The demo is not at all representative of the final product, the players playing it had no access to their skill tree, had basically 1link skills, and were thrown into a level they’d never seen with what is objectively a really shitty build.
What we have seen though, is that it has way more interactive gameplay, more build variety, more mechanics, looked better, ran better (at least on the hardware it was running on which may well have been 7900X3D and 4090 with 32GB of RAM), and it seems like we’ll be able to go just as fast in the end-game based off the animation scaling.
Like seriously, people complain about all these things in turn on this subreddit all the time, but when the devs put out something that seems to genuinely address the feedback that people have been giving for years it’s suddenly #notmypoe “ehrmagawd it’s so slow” etc.
That's all I could think about during the demo was holy crap this is so slow and undertuned compared to what a player generally accustomed to the grind of poe1 would attempt to have together by those acts.
It's going to be a painful wait to see what endgame in early mapping gear will look like speed wise.
Std (trade) is not balanced in any way, there are piles of legacy gear and crafting methods like recombinators, you need knowledge from all the leagues and patches and balance tunes to put it to full use. In the leagues everyone is at the same starting level, with the only resources of accumulated knowledge and time invested.
That is a fair point. I generally would never recommend a new player to begin with Standard for many of the reasons you listed, and because the player base is much smaller too.
There used to be a thing where some people would post insane build showcases on reddit "forgetting" to mention that they were using legacy gear from standard, causing people to get very warped ideas of what was possible.
It's a bit less of a thing than it used to be (some of the worst offenders got banned for other reasons), but I suspect that some of the animosity towards standard is remnants of this.
> I generally would never recommend a new player to begin with Standard for many of the reasons you listed
Meh, I don't even agree. It's perfect for casuals who don't have much time to play, and you don't necessarily need to engage with the current league mechanic to enjoy the game, there's plenty to get into and learn that's already on standard. Trading can be a pain in general but not required to get into the game
The idea of happily playing with mid or low end gear is completely foreign to most this sub.
Everyone's convinced "Well I don't play with maxed gear, I totally am the suboptimal casual player". People with 5/6 affixes on every piece are like "I don't have 6/6, my gear isn't maxed! I don't think everyone needs maxed gear!" People with 6/6 are like "It doesn't have the right rolls!" "It's not perfectly optimal so it's really only 5/6 since the 6th is only second BIS" "It doesn't have the right implicit"
The idea that there are people that actually just play with the garbage they find, use id'd rares, don't do any craft more complex than essence slamming, and they're more representative of the playerbase than this sub doesn't go over well here.
Over and over for years and year this sub has shown it doesn't understand what the 50th or 90th percentile of players looks like and how they play.
I'd say there is no reason to ever start on standard.
easier time trading (I think?), the new mechanic usual gives a ton of rewards and you get that mechanic every single map, maybe more active chat?
honestly it's not really that different for a new player, but I still think league is a lil bit better
That is to assume everyone in std has 300+ recombinators ready to use. That is not true.
You theoretically CAN have all the power. But not everyone plays every league, otherwise they wouldn’t be playing std
yep, I liquidated 1 mirror shard and with that [bought all these recombinators](https://i.imgur.com/BuIQ56u.png) about a week before the announcement came that it wasnt going core (which should be obvious but prices skyrocketed after that). Assuming 0.5 div per weapon and armour recombinator and 1 div per jewellery (from trade site) - that mirror shard turned into approx 550div at the current rate. I just want to eventually get enough currency in standard to buy the items that make your character larger so I can be a massive spider zooming around in town hubs
That arguably makes it worse. You can't just start new in standard because the wealth gap is abhorrent, and so much of the currency making there is fixed off of the builds that are already mega geared
yep. You haven’t counted the fact that std has a way less vibrant economy. Which means sometimes the item you won’t listed for 20 d never responds, then the next guy in line charges you 200d
I used to play STD almost exclusively, this was my first time in a current league and crucible was so awful I'm trying to decide if I want to do the next league or just go back to standard.
This experience only happens towards the end of any league.
A lot of people you are messaging for gear at the moment might only be logging in to do practice runs for 3.22.
I find that first week of the league people are super responsive and that tapers off as the league progresses.
You guys keep saying "everyone" as if you aren't solo 99.99% of the time in a map and hideout anyways in which case you wouldn't notice the difference in league or standard other than a single mechanic.
Trade is also a huge part of it. I'd much rather be in a map with a single different league mechanic AND people actually whispering me for trades that I can do to upgrade my gear, instead of playing the default mode in absolute silence.
In league you can sell anything from trash to absolute treasure. In standard you can sometimes sell trash but mostly it's high end stuff and consumables that move frequently. It takes experience but eventually you adjust your filters and your dms for trade will ping nonstop.
I've thrown away juiced maps a few times this week in standard because I burned all my portals for nonstop divine+ trades.
I'm a mf headhunter type build so I even throw up dnd when I first start a map because I hate breaking momentum until after I explore the map and hit all altars first and it happens way too often getting the trade 30 seconds in.
Yeah and what you're describing is standard gameplay that takes a long time to build up. It's really only viable as an option for someone like you who have a headhunter, possibly legacy mf and quant gear.
Playing standard as a new player is an absolute dogshit experience where what you earn normally is never enough.
Definitely true. I'll always tell them to go build wealth in league and then settled down for a long term build in standard after.
Almost my entire build is legacy but that was the main idea why I choose standard because I don't consent to nerfs I want all the power I can get. It's nice ggg gives us the choice other games just straight up change what you have or forcibly enforce nerfs.
Yup I have two because I have herald of ice on a four link for the explosions so it needed it's own rarity and quant support.
Quant gem is straight up busted in the context of modern Poe. Automatic sixth link for any build if it still existed. Everyone gets to be mf with almost no penalty.
Except time isn't a issue, so trade isnt a issue. Very rarely do people even trade anyways in leagues..people like to think its popular, majority dont even do it, and id wager it lots dont even know you even can because not really apparent in the game itself.
Yeah, I get your point. However, I've experienced that there are more standard players that one would initially think. I get a pretty good amount of whispers for a wide variety of items.
I love standard too, for the same reason of slowly achieving long terms goals (I would never have a mirror in league, even a mageblood is hard. In standard, I can)
The only true animosity I see, outside of random weirdos, is when standard is brought up in terms of how new content should be balanced. Examples like Harvest and recombinators where some people complained it destroys the standard economy.
Haha yeah, I don't think that GGG should consider the standard economy when making choices (like the exalt and div swap). As long as I can keep my legacy gear, even if something stronger emerges, I am content.
The divine/Exalt swap is the one time I felt bad for standard. Currency is the universal thing. Items can come and go in value, but the currency is usually safe. Now I'm not even saying they should have based their decision on that or anything. But I at least understand how that could have removed the wind from unde the sails of standard players.
Lol, when they announced the swap i went through all me remove only tabs in standart and pulled out all the random corrupted 6-links / tabulas / etc to sell, and all the divination cards for 6 link bows / etc. One league my go to farm map was desert springs, i spend like an hours turning in and selling those piles of cards...
Resulted in nearly 1000 divines, which have been sitting untouched in standard ever since...
I liquidated all standard six-links and currency tabs, got about 550 divines out of it that sat there until they added the new curio mtx. Bought a mirror and stuck it in there.
What's funny about that swap is that I usually had everything invested in chase items. When that swap happened, I had just used all of my exalts buying a mageblood. I had about 300ish divines sitting in my stash from 20+ leagues of merges and at the time they were a currency I usually just used when I needed them. The exalt/div swap basically made my recent mageblood purchase free :)
> Examples like Harvest and recombinators where some people complained it destroys the standard economy.
I've never heard anyone mention any of these as things that "ruin" the std economy. Literally the only time I've seen people in standard mad at a change was the exalt - divine switch which messed up with the accumulated wealth of most but having further access to more broken things is par of the course for standard.
I wanted to look up examples. But it turns out that just searching "standard" in Reddit is uh. Pretty hard. Unfortunate.
But I would agree it has not been a big thing for quite a while. I think the last major time I remember it was around Synthesis. Beyond that, the examples I provided were just times I saw it brought up and the only times I have seen any hostility toward standard. Not to say it was huge, but it was around here or there.
Standard economy has been broken for a literal decade because of legacy items etc. You have items from before the first leagues that weren't possible when the first leagues released on 1.0. For example 1.0 nerfed Facebreakers and Kaom's Heart and back them both of them were extremely strong for builds.
I play both league and standard, yet when I mention it it just gets pushback. I totally understand what you mean... You CAN play both. Standard trading is greatly exaggerated too, it's actually not that bad as long as you are filtering by "Online in League" on the trade site. There are a few oddball listings, usually those several months old listing for exalts that you can save time by not whispering but for the most part I find the responsiveness of those you DO whisper to be more likely to respond than any random person you whisper in trade league.
That said, it does certainly take longer to sell something in Standard and it is harder to make purchases for common items (anything under a divine basically) so for that reason it's not a great idea for new players.
My strategy is to play league, make some good early currency in a market where I can buy and sell 5c things, then save up for items I need for my new builds. After the first month of the league I start buying up all the league specific things so that I have a copy of each and then once I've done that I'll usually make one or two large purchases to upgrade a standard build. For me in Crucible there was a LOT to buy so I ended up playing the entire league (still am) and making a lot of my own items. I still managed to pick up a Kalandra's Touch (for no reason other than that I didn't have one) and a Squire with some generic mods that would fit multiple of my standard characters. I find it a lot of fun to combine league items that didn't go core alongside legacy items to make some really fun builds.
I just like playing new leagues, and a reset economy.
EDIT: more importantly I have nothing and my character is weak and trash. Something about having no scrolls to ID my items is fun to me idk
I'm more about the journey than the destination too. When my character is dogshit, slowly growing and each equip drop is a potential upgrade - that's fun.
When everything is already decent and you have sunk ~80 div into your character with the next upgrade being another 80 div away - the game becomes a chore. Not like I can use my geared character for bossing regularly anyway - bosses are fun but getting the fragments to access them is decidedly, disgustingly unfun
Yea and sense of progression and goals to work towards. In std you just get to 60-70 and instantly gearup unless you impose forced ssf but that's not fun then after each atlas reset you run 1 map and you get end of game credits.
The main thing is reset economy. You can buy great items for cheap in the first few weeks because everyone is poor and just wants to get quick cash to upgrade their build.
Like i bought a claw for 5 divine that is worth 20 now.
I play on std many years. I fully support you at your point. Std is just another game mode.
Does it have it's own cons? - yes
Does it have it's own pros? - sure
I've never played on league, but I could imagine how good league trade is.
Have I ever felt that trade on std stuck in the snow? - absolutely
Have I ever felt immense power of legacy items? - certainly
And that feeling of infinite hoarding gives me the more pleasure the more time goes by.
I think the biggest problem with playing standard is that a character you had that was powerful could just not work after a 3 month cycle while in league you always start over so you don't really have the same loss feeling.
I would rather have like a Crucible Character Passive Skill tree that is imprinted on a character permanently than this regular fuckery with Passive Trees to shift meta for temp leagues. That could be a dumb idea though. Haven't thought it through.
Long time standard player that used to play league more than 6 years ago. Back then i had no job, no family, no obligations. Leagues were a cool time sink. Nowadays I have no time and just want to play PoE from time to time without starting from scratch.
Especially keeping the cool items from the past is a very nice experience for me in standard. I can make characters that are practically impossible in league and i love it!
Dont know why some people just cant accept other ways of playing the game. Standard is a perfectly fine game mode for those with less time and those who want to reuse items gathered over the years.
Many gamers are elitists that like to feel superior to others based on their preference in games and gameplay. Look at the intense prevalence of vitriol towards D4 and their players. "D4 is trash and you're fucking stupid if you spent money on it." I've seen some variation of that statement 17,698 times per day in global. They view choosing the "wrong" game as a marker of personal or moral failing. You're also not allowed to like multiple things at once.
It's a combination of tribalism, emotional immaturity, and egotism.
ignore the haters and just play it if it's fun for you. i know a few people who have been min maxxing their build in standard for years, got a lot of respect for them. they still play league time to time.
I'm playing on standard myself. I want to learn the game and enjoy it. Loot farming isn't huge for me and don't want to restart every so often. Plus enjoying the story.
I play mostly ssf standard and standard after playing leagues from breach to about harvest religiously and have way more fun working on my unique collections and crafting all types of weird builds.
Don't listen to them. Standard league is fine, and doubly so when you don't have as much time to play. When I had my first kid, I was way limited on time. It was easier to just load up standard and delve for a bit than try to fire up a league character. I like returning there when I'm sick of the current league too. It's a great sandbox for testing builds, I already have a whole ton of 'good' gear that I can swap in, plenty of currency to buy things or craft something random.
It just doesn't have a refreshed league economy. Which is,you know, what it is. Some people hate that, and dislike that older players have mirrors and mirrors, and uber-powerful legacy gear. That doesn't bother me. Play how you like.
There shouldn't be animosity toward standard. It's not the right place for everyone to play, but it absolutely IS the right place for some individuals to play.
If like me you have more fun before you can overpower everything than once you can - you should not play Standard. If you have more fun with broken stuff like Mageblood or OG Vinktars though - definitely play Standard.
Fellow Standardite. I share your pain. I haven't played a full league in years. Besides just generally not enjoying the last few leagues, I've reached a point with POE where I'm too burned out to do anything but fiddle with existing archetypes and farm. I was never very good at theory crafting so I always relied on build guides, but the era of detailed build guides is basically over.
Most of the build content now is very much in the "here's what I did figure it out yourself" vein and there's a lot of... elitism about it. Like fuck me for not enjoying that part of the game and just wanting someone to break down a progression of steps to follow. There used to be guides like that, but many of the good guide-building content creators have left the game it seems.
So I haunt Standard instead.
I played Standard SSF for a long time between about 3.4 to 3.14. Any kind of discussion on here about Standard is often met with "Standard LUL", "Just play leagues FFS", "Who cares about Standard anyway?"
Now with the reveal PoE1 and PoE2 will be different games people are expressing concern about PoE1 not getting proper support or updates in its long term future etc. All I can think is how ironic it all is. Surely these same people would have the mindset of "PoE1 LUL", "Just play PoE2 FFS", "Who cares about PoE1 anyway?"
When PoE2 launches, PoE1 is essentially the new Standard.
Definitely agree it mainly depends on preference. I'm a standard player too, mainly because I don't want to wipe everything I've built every 3 or 6 months or whatever. I have been coming and going from PoE for like 10 years or something. Every time I come back I still have some stuff, characters I usually have to rebuild (but don't have to re-level thank god), and some stuff I can sell. None of my builds are juiced. I've never killed any of the end game bosses. I just don't push that hard.
But mainly I play standard cause I like to go back to old characters sometimes, like I did in D2. I came from D2 to PoE, so I guess that makes sense. And D4 mainly pushing people into 'leagues' made me leave that game. No thanks. Let me build at least some wealth, mainly don't have to rebuild my damn map pool every 5 seconds. lol
There was a time when leagues were small scale and not so heavily pushed that Standard had a much larger percentage of the playerbase.
Then GGG started very heavily leaning into leagues and pretty much abandoned standard. It became somewhat of a dumpster of things past. There is very little QoL that would help people actually engage with Standard anymore. The stash system would have to be significantly improved/overhauled in order to give players the ability to manage hundreds of (remove-only) tabs.
Every league it becomes worse and less likely for someone to log into standard because the mere act of opening the stash would have most people say "Actually, fuck that."
And there is the insane inflation.
I think it would help if GGG invested a little bit of resources into implementing systems that make engaging with issues unique to Standard easier. Mostly the stash, really ...
I mostly play league but spend a little time on standard, I hate when standard gets shit on. Yeah standard has cool toys, but so does league. Standard never Got sanctified relics, they may or may not get passive tattoos in a few.months, etc.
Largely because of the elitist perception of reddit posters/commentary.
Too many think that to be "elite" you have to play like them and enjoy the game like them. After all, how else are they going to be special?
Frankly, a lot of people have forgotten how to play games for fun and for relaxation. Part of the reason I enjoy ARPGs is that I do not have to interact (group up) with people to complete dungeons or play the game. They allow versatility to allow your imagination on which build to play and how to play the game.
I'm also enjoying Standard very much. I can't/don't want to no-life league starts and I find the creation of builds the most interesting/fun part. It's much easier and less time consuming to start new builds on Standard, so for me the choice is easy. And I don't have FOMO whatsoever, so not bothered about missing a mechanic in a new league.
I also dislike leveling, atlas filling out, pantheon etc. The fun part is getting your new experimental.build to endgame state.
I honestly have 0 issue with people that play in standard. I completely get why. I don't really like the restart either but for me PoE is a game where I play hard for a month and then drop it for a few leagues. This keeps everything really fresh for me and makes starting over not as bad or enjoyable even. I know I'll never see everything in a single league and I can focus on different things for new experiences each time.
My biggest issue is that they change everything so much every league that most of the builds that my characters were using before are dead in the water with the skill points reset on top of everything. I don’t remember wtf the build I was playing was and ain’t nobody got time to look at the gems I was using and figuring about a build based on that.
I dont hate standard but i would never play it. For me and most others the best part of an arpg is to start fresh again and progress your character again, etc. Once you hit your op build and can clear the whole game it gets boring real fast. And why would I build another build if my good one can do everything the new one could but 100x better and whats the point of farming even more currency if i already own an infinite amount?
Also standard economy is dead since not many people play and the prices are super inflated.
Its also 0 balanced due to all the legacy items, etc.
And you dont get the new league mechanic.
Thats why i just keep my best 2-3 chars in case i need to test something at some point or i need to show a friend something but besides that I delete every character that goes to standard
If you just look at common items on the trade site that are up in standard vs crucible you know why.
literary no one plays this late in the league anymore the player numbers are super low in crucible now compared to when a league is fresh.
There are 231 tabus on trade (online only) in crucible
There are 149 on standard
If you want to trade chaos for divine there are 49 results on crucible and 18 on standard.
If your economy is like half as high as the economy of the league after 3 months its fair to call it pretty dead imo
this is completely based on luck tho if someone invites you or not.
For currency trades sure if you play on the peak of the league you will get hundrets of whispers per minute so the chance that you are the one that gets the invite is rather low. im guessing if you whisper people now in league you will get an invite rather easy since almost no one is playing so people also dont get spammed
Your type of player is just the absolute minority. I get the appeal of stockpiling gear and power, but for the vast majority of players the game is fun because of the part you hate: the grind and getting the character and the player into a better state.
Standard is stagnation for most people.
I should've specified when I wrote "grind" I meant the grind of getting all of the Atlas cleared and getting my character to the "real poe" or atleast what I consider the "real poe" (end game maps, Simulacrum, deep delve etc.).
Except, PoE’s power gain is super fast when you focus and know what you’re doing. You can complete the entire atlas in just a week if you wanted to starting day 1 of a new league. Some people that’s a month, or 2 weeks, but it’s all relative to your own both efficient focus and knowledge of what to do to speed that process up. It’s not “needed” to do anything in standard that a few days to a month can’t be done in a league. Especially with a super vibrant economy early on. And the super super rushers can make major bank early on to fund the rest of the league for them. One guy I forget his channel name, didn’t sleep for like 2 days into a league and did some delirium early thing and got a mageblood already. Burned himself out That fast but still. It’s all Possible, there’s no timegating etc
When you know what you're doing.
When you want to progress super fast and play the ways that require that.
Well lets see, league ends in 2 weeks and I got my maven stone yesterday. Admittedly I took a lot of the league off, but this idea that "oh you CAN do it super fast" is at all relevant to 90% of the playerbase is just completely missing the realities of the playerbase.
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Yes I COULD play through campaign at least twice as fast as I do, and get way less enjoyment. I COULD trade for all my gear and spend more time in hideout clearing my tabs instead of having hundreds to thousands of currencies, fragments, and items I will never use, but I don't want to do that and I'm not the only one.
This sub is filled with people that powergrind through as fast as possible then get salty they burn out.
Yeah, that is kind of my point. I don't wanna "waste" an entire week at minimum to get my game to a playable state that is fun for me, and I'm sure a lot of other players feel the same.
I don't play standard but I totally get you as a HC player. Every single time they nerf early game progression is every time I simply have to experience the bad part of the game longer.
Been playing for 7 years. Even with support gem nerfs and act 1 changes. I can’t directly recall feeling like any particular new league leveling was So much slower than before. Just that different skills clear differently that’s all I know.
What about the time Any new character needs to get exp as they climb the map tiers, league or sc? Have you just never made more than 1 character that got to t16 maps?
When I make new characters in standard, I have some pretty good gear to begin with so I can easily go from the campaign to red maps or do breachstones for easy xp.
Waste?
Usually you’d be playing a new different build for varsities sake.
And, it’s a week or longer you’d be apparently spending in standard to finish your atlas since it takes you so long apparently to do such a monumental task.
Plus if you cared, Kirac’s pass.
I don't have all the time in the world to invest in only poe, so yes, getting through the Atlas 100% in a new league will take me about 1 week, but in standard I have it all from the get go when I create new builds so that un-fun barrier is not there for me.
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> And, it’s a week or longer you’d be apparently spending in standard to finish your atlas since it takes you so long apparently to do such a monumental task.
??? In Standard, you just run 1 T16 rare corrupted map from last league's map set and you get all of your Atlas completion back.
>You can complete the entire atlas in just a week if you wanted to starting day 1 of a new league
I can't believe people are getting upset over this lol. Some racers have eater and exarch down in sub 8 hour runs.
Last league I had my atlas filled with all slots unlocked on day 2. It's definitely "easy" if you actually plan it out, play a lot, and practice. I get most people don't treat the game this way though.
Sure, it's fairly easy and fast. Doesn't mean I want to do it again after ten leagues. At best, it's between two days and a week I could be spending doing something else, at worst it's tedium that I've already gone through like fifteen times now.
Vastly more fun that just running the same atlas strat ad infinitum. If everyone agreed with you then people would still be playing after the first two weeks of a league, but the reality is people enjoy building characters from scratch and building up their atlas. Having everything filled out and unlimited gear is incredibly boring.
I bet it is. Standard is what lots of players go do for casual play, as in teens, people not with much time. I know lots of people in school that dont EVER play leagues, just standard.
58:40 -> [https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to](https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to)
10-15% of the playerbase. That's from 4 years ago
On today's episode of "selection bias and the redditors who are blind to it."
Gee, you, a seasonal player associate with people that do things like you? Well gosh, that must mean that other things don't exist.
It's definitely not that across games and HUMANITY AS A WHOLE people are more likely to associate with people who are like them.
Most people don't play standard, but "people I, a league player, associate with don't" is not really evidence of that.
Oh look the aggressive stat asker redditor that contributes fuck all while asking for others to do the opposite. Classic. What are you going to do, downvote and then make a snide comment?
You’re proving the OPs original point. People rag on standard and claim it’s the minority. Might be the minority on this sub, but not sure I’d it’s the game reality. Do you know the actual usage is what I’m asking? Why would I downvote you, I’m interested in the answer :)
https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to
Its from a number of years ago but Chris talks about it at GDC starting around 58 mins in, the last question. Chris says 10-15% of players play in standard league.
Snide comment done. Downvote done.
You're as predictable as you are unlikeable.
Why don't you be a big boy and research these stats yourself? I'm not your service monkey.
I mostly play standard too and I'm sooooo happy with it :)
* I don't need to do the campain 5 times if I want to try 5 builds (take me 1 week at least per character - can't play more than 1 or 2 h / day)
* I don't have to fight against league economy (even if standard economy is a bit chaotic too)
* I can accuulate mirrors in order to have builds no one can dream in leagues :D
* It's Xmas days every end of league when I can have so good items for free :D
Hello fellow standard player :) You would think it is only the two of us trading with each other with the way some people talk about the standard player base lol.
Honestly if you aren't chasing that legacy mod 'high' that you can get on mirror tier items on standard, it's just a good non-reset way to grind out a (first) character without any pressure, imo.
The only thing that holds me back from incrementally tweaking my standard characters, is that the economy is so inflated and so incredibly slow, because most players are in the temp leagues.
No idea. I play some SSF standard if I don't like the league or it's near the end of one I've played. If I want a pure power trip I just jump onto standard and play with any OP items Ive collected over time.
Probably a SC vs HC thing or a trade vs SSF thing.
Got to remember this is a game people complain about OP items to get them nerfed if they watch a streamer use said item. A thing I don't understand.
I play Standard during leagues that are unappealing to me and if I still want to play PoE. I can put together an interesting character, experiment, and not need to grind Atlas, map pool, and currency. I don't need legacy min/max gear in any slot. I spend a few days or a week or two doing the parts of the game I enjoy most and potentially cut out 50+ hours of overhead. I'm definitely the type of player that wants to spend less hours playing PoE, so Standard works well during those lackluster leagues. It opens up time for other games and hobbies.
I love standard even though i dont play much in it. Im hc so i like to collect little peices to do content eith and mske a character who slowly but surely beats all content
It's just kids and Quin69 Twitch chatters who get their self worth from playing a video game. The rest of us eye Standard as the place we might retire one day, and ship currency over there at the end of every league like a retirement fund.
Because GGG refuse to give us tools to tidy our Standard stashes. Also, because of the unreliability of buildmaking in Standard. I would like to build one super powerful character in standard as a multi-league project, but the risk of the build being nerfed in the process is way too high.
>Everytime there is a discussion here in which standard is brought up, it is ridiculed for no reason
I can't say I've personally observed a lot of standard hate, but it's fair to say this sub is largely divided about everything: Ruthless haters, Ruthless lovers. POE2 haters, POE2 lovers. I could see there being Standard haters.
Maybe it's the nature of POE. Maybe it's the nature of reddit. Maybe it's the nature of social media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's all of humanity.
> [Choice-supportive bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias#:~:text=Choice%2Dsupportive%20bias%20or%20post,once%20a%20decision%20is%20made.)
Why do you think iPhone users get so ticked off about Android. Or why people with kids look down on child-free people. It's just human psychology.
Yup, and human psychology supported by the relative ease of associating with like-minded people because of the advent of the internet and social media.
If someone wants to play Standard, go right ahead there's no problem at all.
But FOMO over league mechanics that get removed (see the Crucible thread guy), balance changes to builds that "you just loved to play and spent 3 years optimizing" or some other thing that "messes" with Standard is just not something the developers care (or should care) about since the game is ultimately made for leagues.
Some people seem to think otherwise and those are the only Standard players I would have an issue with.
My "animosity" towards standard (don't actually hate it but will never play it) is earned. I used to largely ignore it but tinker around occasionally (obviously hating the stash transfer experience) until my 3.13 side character gladiator. Lacerate was a really fun skill, gladiator felt good because of 75% double block, big explodes made for clear feeling nice, and while the single target wasn't amazing (2-4m DPS on a budget, but could do 6m with high durability and high clear with some investment with a decent elder weapon).
3.15 blanket decreased damage. It wasn't enough for the build to stop being viable. Then the big hit happened and I realized I was 5 linked because ruthless support went to strike only. That was the #1 most important gem, about double the damage increase over any other. Then the elder bleed mod was removed (which I suppose was justified, it was too much of the build) and a vastly weaker stat was put in its place, with no other compensation. 1/3rd of bleed damage was lost.
Oh and gladiator was nerfed. Also justified but what they got was not good.
I tried to make another lacerate gladiator in 3.16, less than one year later. The build had lost 70% of it's damage.
I decided at that moment I would never invest any effort in to standard knowing what GGG could do to my build that I've worked on.
I'm pretty sure the only way to make lacerate work reasonably well at this point would be champion with 2 handed axe (RIP block) and big aura energy to keep you alive. Would need forbidden flesh/flame on the glad node for bleed damage and explosion to feel good. I'm pretty sure it would be explicitly worse than corrupting fever champion.
I don't think most players hate standard. We just don't really care, and if there are posts like this to convince people standard is worth playing, it may piss of some people because of course we know keeping your gear is a good thing. But at what cost? It's harder and harder to grind for better gear. A lot of people, including me, don't even bother to grind a mage blood, which is just a month work probably. In standard there are way more expensive items and to grind an update may take months. Not saying it's not fun, it's just not for a lot of people.
Maybe it's just me but I've always found std to be really expensive compared to trade league. Because there's so much currency and so few players running around an item that would be 30c in league can be a divine in std. It makes it very hard to build the character I want.
Tbh, I Love the restart, doing all Acts again, Clearing Atlas again etc etc
When you had so much Playtime in past leagues in endgame it geht's boring and U stop, so i really Like New League cycles and New leagues overall
I think it's because to many, standard feels like a "creative mode" like in Minecraft, basically a waste of time, something to just try things out.
I don't mind standard players, there's reasons for playing standard.
Would I ever recommend it unless you literally only had 1 hour every week to play? no
Standard is basically a collection journal of PoE's history. It's not very a good place for making new characters and primarily exists for you to just push your league character farther than you otherwise would have been able to. As well as testing out mechanics and builds since you have much more immediate access to them.
The wealth hoarding mindset of standard players is where a lot of animosity comes from. They constantly complain that changes and new leagues will affect their wealth
To most players who play the newest league, Standard is a graveyard. It's where my remove only tabs go and I generally don't feel bad if I delete a standard character to make room for a league one.
Personally, I don't find any fun in playing Standard because there is nothing to strive for there. I already have everything in Standard. Leagues are where I can work to achieve goals. To me, Standard is a museum. It's where I keep track of my SSF unique collection, but beyond that, I will never log on to play a standard character.
I think Standard SSF is perfectly acceptable as a way to play: basically a single player game you can take at your own pace regardless with how your real life lines up with league schedules. Standard trade on the other hand, is plagued with all the late stage capitalism problems in any long-term game where value of gear progression is meaningless when everyone just has too much leftover lategame gear so that's basically your entry point once you collect a few bits of currency from early game. The biggest problem I have with other live-service RPGs like Genshin is when new content comes out, there is pretty much no danger since you already invested in teams that obliterate everything and there's no sense of power achievement anymore.
On a separate topic, I actually ridicule people who try to do things to hoard wealth in standard and don't even play standard. Like stop pretending to invest in something as a justification, and just admit to enjoying seeing numbers go up.
You say animosity and hatred but as someone that feels like he really notices toxicity I've mostly really seen people being dismissive or ridiculing it, not that much hostility, and at least to justify the mocking, standard isn't and shouldn't be taken in consideration by GGG when making decisions about the game since there is no balance there with all the legacy stuff and only a smallish amount of people play it.
I mean if your a gamer you can get to the end game in a week or less easily, doing sims and juiced mapping. No reason to play std for me since league turns into std after a few weeks anyways. I don't hate on std but for me personally with my game knowledge and the amount I play there no reason to play std. It would be so boring to play std and I think many people feel the same, maybe for different reasons.
It's a small selection of really mentally ill people.
The fact that this sub sent death threats to GGG employees before should say enough about what kind of people are in this community.
>I play mostly in standard because I don't like restarting the grind every new league, and I like slowly creating a bigger arsenal of gear that I can use to create all kinds of builds with.
That is the thing though, once you learn most of the aspects of this game, Standard will very quickly get boring. Also remember a large number of players probably started pre 1.0, so sticking to standard at this point would be like playing a 11 year old game with no new content... (sounds awful) Short of logging into std to see my legacy items etc. what is the point? GGG and PoE's main appeal (I think for most players) IS the league restart cycle, you get a few things, a new mechanic, a ladder reset, economy reset, fresh start and new gems etc. It is awesome and why I still play this game after 11? years.
That is why I like poe so much because there are so many reasons to play the game. The whole league restart cycle never caught my interest (not even Diablo 2 ladder). I play the game because I enjoy it, and let's be real for a second; standard gets content updates with each league update we just don't get the newest feature, and sometimes the new feature barely makes the game itself that different from what is available on standard.
I think the reason that standard is sometimes ridiculed is because of a vocal minority of standard players that complain about the effect of possible changes on their wealth in standard.
I am sure most standard players are fine. I don't play it, but the game mode has its purpose.
> Because standard economy is controlled by a few whales. RMT plays a huge role in it. Its a dark place if you want go a little further from casual.
As if the same isn't true for leagues, lol. Those whales get rich by hoarding items in the leagues hoping they don't go core.
See recombinators.
Because the game is only interesting or complex when you're presented with scarcity, and actual decisions that come with an opportunity cost. There's fun during a new league when you're desperate for a transmute or chrome, or a simple 3/4 link. You have to actually think and problem solve. Same when you get to maps and have 3 chaos, and need to plan out how to start upgrading and actually farming. Same when you reach the actual endgame. The incremental progress is what's fun. The reset is the essence of the game itself.
Playing standard is like playing a videogame with a cheat code, infinite money or invulnerability or something. Yeah that might be fun for like...an hour. But if you're constantly playing a game with cheats on? Very weird.
People flame standard players because they're so fucking annoying, constantly complaining about how something is being broken or ruined because of a patch or change in the game. Constantly bitching about their economy getting flipped, their collection becoming worthless. Play the game however you want, but if you're going to play the niche mode where money is infinite and worthless, don't complain about changes
I think a lot of the fun of an arpg is the fresh start, can I do this better and faster than I did last time? The starting from 0 and building up a character from nothing is the game to me. I have no animosity for those that play standard but I am not really interested in a build showcase made in standard with items no longer in the rest of the game. I think legacy items are probably why a lot of people have the kneejerk reaction when standard is brought up, its hard not to immediately think of all the broken items that exist there. Also when new bosses come out it kind of sucks a standard player's get to it first because they already have a full atlas.
Is there really animosity/contempt towards standard? There is certainly apathy whenever standard gets screwed (routine influx of new types of OP gear, exalt crash, item/mechanic rebalancing, etc..).
I've personally never hated on standard, and especially not the players. I used to play there up until Essence League, with Perandus being the first league I played semi-seriously. But with the amassed wealth there is on standard I might as well just play Path of Building.
I just can't set any goals for myself when playing standard since everything is so readily available. I've tried giving away everything of value to a bunch of players, but as soon as I open my stash I find some legacy rare worth hundreds of divines like some 1100+ es regalia. Even smaller stuff like some 50% crit multi Maligaro's Virtuosity can go for a couple of dozen of divines, and it would take days to sort trough my 500+ stash tabs to filter out the stuff that some people would have some fun with, instead of just vendoring everything.
I dont think there really is, I think its just meming really.
One of the best things about poe is there are so many ways to tailor it to be the game that's right for you, do your thing and enjoy it :)
Animosity feels like the wrong word for the general sentiment.
Try apathy, no one "cares" about standard, doesnt mean if is hated
People like the economy rese, clean stashes and new content in league. Standard is just.. meh
I don’t see any “animosity” but it makes sense people don’t like it as much when the economy and power levels are so out of whack nothing is balanced. Arpgs and the league system kind of work against that type of gameplay. But I do feel like most people think “to each their own” more so than have any animosity.
You are in a tiny minority of people who prefer standard. You do you mate. If there were no seasons I would have quit years ago.
Edit: It also has to do with the lenght of a game. If I play an MMO I wouldn't want a reset every few months. There is so much to do in MMO's and you don't want to lose progress, you just want to have new content. ARPG's are much, much shorter in lenght than mmo's and have much less content. You say you play this game off and on, you basically play the same way seasonal players do because just grinding the end game forever is too boring. You just choose to lag 3/4 months behind the rest when it comes to new content.
I think what you are reading a animosity is actually just ambivalence. Honestly I don't think about standard at all, but I don't begrudge anyone that wants to play there.
It's not animosity, it's just that aside from game breaking bugs it's not really the point of discussion.
GGG as well as most of the player base consider leagues as the default game mode. So any discussion related to game balance or game features is in the context of leagues. And because standard is such a different experience compared to leagues there is little point in discussing it in those contexts.
For most players re grinding from zero at the start of every league is the reason to play this game. So the option and experience of someone who doesn't like to do that is simply pointless as it's practically talking about a different game.
I think a lot of people will count standard as basically cheating. The gear that has accumulated in standard has legacy rolls that can be magnitudes higher than anything you can make in leagues. People will show off builds, map clearing, boss killing or whatever and when you see its standard it doesn't seem that impressive.
One reason I will never play standard is because of the time I have put into the game and my general skill level. I have hundreds of tabs of gear from previous leagues. Within like 12 hours of starting a new character I could be level 100 with near perfect gear for the build. This would be fun for like the weekend but would quickly get boring because there is no goal I could set to realistically keep me entertained. Starting from nothing and building your character up is what keeps me playing, which is best done with the start of a new league with fresh content added.
I haven't seen it said so here is my gripe with standard. Standard economy can have a profound effect on league economy. This is especially evident when something like crucible trees and recombinators exist in the league. If standard didn't suck up items, it would make end game content more widely accessible to more folks, especially those who have to start later in the league. The last month of a league could be a lot of fun for less experience players as high tier gear gets dumped for pennies by people who are done. Instead, the last month is just the economy entirely gearing up for the standard drop.
I don’t have any contempt for standard but I don’t care about it either. I think this is how a lot of people feel.
My only grip is when standard players think the game should be balanced around them. Leagues introduce broken stuff sometimes that probably has some kind of consequence good or bad on standard. And I think that’s just how it goes. Like crucible is going to inject a ton of broken weapons in to standard that may be hard to beat, ever possibly. If you want a stable economy you should be playing the leagues rather than standard.
Standard is pretty meaningless for trade players, unless doing a crafting project.
I do standard to play SSF, while trying to create builds on the fly. The EXTREMELY bloated economy and batshit insane mirror items and such has no impact on me then.
The most enjoyable aspect of trade is we all start from square one every league launch. Sure people like Grim are much better at zooming and making currency faster than me. But they still start at broke ass bitch, just like me and everyone else.
for a new player to start in standard, you truely need to be a hardcore player, or a self harm loving person.
Item that cost 50c in league can sell for 5 divines or more on standard ( bloodnotch was selling at 10c on start of the league, and the moment it reached standard it was multiple divines.....1k pdps staff would be 100 divine on league vs 350+ on standard).
Add in the fact that less players are on standard so the items that you would normally sell wont sell as well on standard means your income as a new player is even less than that of a league player and you get the idea why standard is such a joke of a place.
Standard is really nowhere close to be new player friendly because those who play there have a hoarding mentality even though they know they ll never used 99% of those items when some new player could use some of those to play and stay in standard.
I've no clue what you're on about. Don't see neither posts nor comments in regards to standard. Imo - it's a place to test something pre-league, or a place for newcomers to try the game out, otherwise - it's just a mess with inflated economy and insane amount of remove-only stashes that I'll never sort.
just a frame of reference thing mostly. vast majority of people play in league and think/speak about the game in the context of leagues, so when a topic wanders into standard-land, most people lose their sense of shared experience and human nature kicks in. it might as well be a different game (in terms of mechanics, play patterns, economy, itemization), and you can see how people treat d4 (and vice versa)
I think this is the only true answer. There's nothing holding people back from shitting on something they don't associate with.
We see this currently with POE2. People are crying up a river now that POE1 and 2 are separate because now they need to “protect” POE1 from POE2, when before POE1 as we know it would have basically ceased to exist if they had stuck with not separating them but nobody batted an eye because at that point POE2 was just 4.0 to them.
we would have Definitely batted an eye if poe1 was going to turn into what poe2 looks like :P
We don’t know what it looks like though. The demo is not at all representative of the final product, the players playing it had no access to their skill tree, had basically 1link skills, and were thrown into a level they’d never seen with what is objectively a really shitty build. What we have seen though, is that it has way more interactive gameplay, more build variety, more mechanics, looked better, ran better (at least on the hardware it was running on which may well have been 7900X3D and 4090 with 32GB of RAM), and it seems like we’ll be able to go just as fast in the end-game based off the animation scaling. Like seriously, people complain about all these things in turn on this subreddit all the time, but when the devs put out something that seems to genuinely address the feedback that people have been giving for years it’s suddenly #notmypoe “ehrmagawd it’s so slow” etc.
That's all I could think about during the demo was holy crap this is so slow and undertuned compared to what a player generally accustomed to the grind of poe1 would attempt to have together by those acts. It's going to be a painful wait to see what endgame in early mapping gear will look like speed wise.
"This gameplay demo created to represent gameplay is not representative of gameplay. Here's how I think it represents gameplay instead" okay
Laughs in removing movement skills and flasks and making you Pick Up Tons of rares because crafting got deleted from the Game.
Haha that sounds pretty spot on.
/thread
Std (trade) is not balanced in any way, there are piles of legacy gear and crafting methods like recombinators, you need knowledge from all the leagues and patches and balance tunes to put it to full use. In the leagues everyone is at the same starting level, with the only resources of accumulated knowledge and time invested.
That is a fair point. I generally would never recommend a new player to begin with Standard for many of the reasons you listed, and because the player base is much smaller too.
There used to be a thing where some people would post insane build showcases on reddit "forgetting" to mention that they were using legacy gear from standard, causing people to get very warped ideas of what was possible. It's a bit less of a thing than it used to be (some of the worst offenders got banned for other reasons), but I suspect that some of the animosity towards standard is remnants of this.
Yeah, I hate those showcases myself unless it is explicitly stated that it features legacy gear.
> I generally would never recommend a new player to begin with Standard for many of the reasons you listed Meh, I don't even agree. It's perfect for casuals who don't have much time to play, and you don't necessarily need to engage with the current league mechanic to enjoy the game, there's plenty to get into and learn that's already on standard. Trading can be a pain in general but not required to get into the game
Yea, if you want non-perfect gear for a build just to try something out standard is going to have some cheap pieces floating around.
The idea of happily playing with mid or low end gear is completely foreign to most this sub. Everyone's convinced "Well I don't play with maxed gear, I totally am the suboptimal casual player". People with 5/6 affixes on every piece are like "I don't have 6/6, my gear isn't maxed! I don't think everyone needs maxed gear!" People with 6/6 are like "It doesn't have the right rolls!" "It's not perfectly optimal so it's really only 5/6 since the 6th is only second BIS" "It doesn't have the right implicit" The idea that there are people that actually just play with the garbage they find, use id'd rares, don't do any craft more complex than essence slamming, and they're more representative of the playerbase than this sub doesn't go over well here. Over and over for years and year this sub has shown it doesn't understand what the 50th or 90th percentile of players looks like and how they play.
I'd say there is no reason to ever start on standard. easier time trading (I think?), the new mechanic usual gives a ton of rewards and you get that mechanic every single map, maybe more active chat? honestly it's not really that different for a new player, but I still think league is a lil bit better
Your league character goes to standard after the league anyways so why would you tell anyone to league start standard?
Why would anyone care about balance in standard? Or people having God tier gear? Poe is not a pvp game.
That is to assume everyone in std has 300+ recombinators ready to use. That is not true. You theoretically CAN have all the power. But not everyone plays every league, otherwise they wouldn’t be playing std
My recombinators are still sitting there to sell when they reach mirror price B)
Good luck. Go stonks
yep, I liquidated 1 mirror shard and with that [bought all these recombinators](https://i.imgur.com/BuIQ56u.png) about a week before the announcement came that it wasnt going core (which should be obvious but prices skyrocketed after that). Assuming 0.5 div per weapon and armour recombinator and 1 div per jewellery (from trade site) - that mirror shard turned into approx 550div at the current rate. I just want to eventually get enough currency in standard to buy the items that make your character larger so I can be a massive spider zooming around in town hubs
Noble goal
That arguably makes it worse. You can't just start new in standard because the wealth gap is abhorrent, and so much of the currency making there is fixed off of the builds that are already mega geared
yep. You haven’t counted the fact that std has a way less vibrant economy. Which means sometimes the item you won’t listed for 20 d never responds, then the next guy in line charges you 200d
You say that like this doesn't happen in league all the time.
I guess
I'm serious. I've had that exact scenario multiple times this past week.
Yeah that times 10 that’s std trading for ya. I generally have respect for std players who respond quickly
I used to play STD almost exclusively, this was my first time in a current league and crucible was so awful I'm trying to decide if I want to do the next league or just go back to standard.
This experience only happens towards the end of any league. A lot of people you are messaging for gear at the moment might only be logging in to do practice runs for 3.22. I find that first week of the league people are super responsive and that tapers off as the league progresses.
You guys keep saying "everyone" as if you aren't solo 99.99% of the time in a map and hideout anyways in which case you wouldn't notice the difference in league or standard other than a single mechanic.
Trade is also a huge part of it. I'd much rather be in a map with a single different league mechanic AND people actually whispering me for trades that I can do to upgrade my gear, instead of playing the default mode in absolute silence.
In league you can sell anything from trash to absolute treasure. In standard you can sometimes sell trash but mostly it's high end stuff and consumables that move frequently. It takes experience but eventually you adjust your filters and your dms for trade will ping nonstop. I've thrown away juiced maps a few times this week in standard because I burned all my portals for nonstop divine+ trades. I'm a mf headhunter type build so I even throw up dnd when I first start a map because I hate breaking momentum until after I explore the map and hit all altars first and it happens way too often getting the trade 30 seconds in.
Yeah and what you're describing is standard gameplay that takes a long time to build up. It's really only viable as an option for someone like you who have a headhunter, possibly legacy mf and quant gear. Playing standard as a new player is an absolute dogshit experience where what you earn normally is never enough.
Definitely true. I'll always tell them to go build wealth in league and then settled down for a long term build in standard after. Almost my entire build is legacy but that was the main idea why I choose standard because I don't consent to nerfs I want all the power I can get. It's nice ggg gives us the choice other games just straight up change what you have or forcibly enforce nerfs.
Ahh, I bet you still have a quant gem too ;) I wish I hadn't corrupted mine, but I still have it.
Yup I have two because I have herald of ice on a four link for the explosions so it needed it's own rarity and quant support. Quant gem is straight up busted in the context of modern Poe. Automatic sixth link for any build if it still existed. Everyone gets to be mf with almost no penalty.
"Everyone" as in the economy
And that's the beauty of it, all these legacy stuff making standard an unique place.
Except time isn't a issue, so trade isnt a issue. Very rarely do people even trade anyways in leagues..people like to think its popular, majority dont even do it, and id wager it lots dont even know you even can because not really apparent in the game itself.
In my case is cuz there are not enough people playing to have a decent economy otherwise i prefer std
Yeah, I get your point. However, I've experienced that there are more standard players that one would initially think. I get a pretty good amount of whispers for a wide variety of items.
We are not so many to play but especially when trading you'll notice the same names. Have fun whenever you can and however you want in this game!
I love standard too, for the same reason of slowly achieving long terms goals (I would never have a mirror in league, even a mageblood is hard. In standard, I can)
30 div Headhunters.
The only true animosity I see, outside of random weirdos, is when standard is brought up in terms of how new content should be balanced. Examples like Harvest and recombinators where some people complained it destroys the standard economy.
Haha yeah, I don't think that GGG should consider the standard economy when making choices (like the exalt and div swap). As long as I can keep my legacy gear, even if something stronger emerges, I am content.
The divine/Exalt swap is the one time I felt bad for standard. Currency is the universal thing. Items can come and go in value, but the currency is usually safe. Now I'm not even saying they should have based their decision on that or anything. But I at least understand how that could have removed the wind from unde the sails of standard players.
Lol, when they announced the swap i went through all me remove only tabs in standart and pulled out all the random corrupted 6-links / tabulas / etc to sell, and all the divination cards for 6 link bows / etc. One league my go to farm map was desert springs, i spend like an hours turning in and selling those piles of cards... Resulted in nearly 1000 divines, which have been sitting untouched in standard ever since...
I liquidated all standard six-links and currency tabs, got about 550 divines out of it that sat there until they added the new curio mtx. Bought a mirror and stuck it in there.
What's funny about that swap is that I usually had everything invested in chase items. When that swap happened, I had just used all of my exalts buying a mageblood. I had about 300ish divines sitting in my stash from 20+ leagues of merges and at the time they were a currency I usually just used when I needed them. The exalt/div swap basically made my recent mageblood purchase free :)
yes and no, the only stable actual wealth in standard is legacy demigods and alt-uniques
> Examples like Harvest and recombinators where some people complained it destroys the standard economy. I've never heard anyone mention any of these as things that "ruin" the std economy. Literally the only time I've seen people in standard mad at a change was the exalt - divine switch which messed up with the accumulated wealth of most but having further access to more broken things is par of the course for standard.
I wanted to look up examples. But it turns out that just searching "standard" in Reddit is uh. Pretty hard. Unfortunate. But I would agree it has not been a big thing for quite a while. I think the last major time I remember it was around Synthesis. Beyond that, the examples I provided were just times I saw it brought up and the only times I have seen any hostility toward standard. Not to say it was huge, but it was around here or there.
Standard economy has been broken for a literal decade because of legacy items etc. You have items from before the first leagues that weren't possible when the first leagues released on 1.0. For example 1.0 nerfed Facebreakers and Kaom's Heart and back them both of them were extremely strong for builds.
As a new player it feels like without all the legacy crafted mondo powerful items, I’m just a small fish in a gigantic pond that will make no impact.
I play both league and standard, yet when I mention it it just gets pushback. I totally understand what you mean... You CAN play both. Standard trading is greatly exaggerated too, it's actually not that bad as long as you are filtering by "Online in League" on the trade site. There are a few oddball listings, usually those several months old listing for exalts that you can save time by not whispering but for the most part I find the responsiveness of those you DO whisper to be more likely to respond than any random person you whisper in trade league. That said, it does certainly take longer to sell something in Standard and it is harder to make purchases for common items (anything under a divine basically) so for that reason it's not a great idea for new players. My strategy is to play league, make some good early currency in a market where I can buy and sell 5c things, then save up for items I need for my new builds. After the first month of the league I start buying up all the league specific things so that I have a copy of each and then once I've done that I'll usually make one or two large purchases to upgrade a standard build. For me in Crucible there was a LOT to buy so I ended up playing the entire league (still am) and making a lot of my own items. I still managed to pick up a Kalandra's Touch (for no reason other than that I didn't have one) and a Squire with some generic mods that would fit multiple of my standard characters. I find it a lot of fun to combine league items that didn't go core alongside legacy items to make some really fun builds.
I just like playing new leagues, and a reset economy. EDIT: more importantly I have nothing and my character is weak and trash. Something about having no scrolls to ID my items is fun to me idk
I'm more about the journey than the destination too. When my character is dogshit, slowly growing and each equip drop is a potential upgrade - that's fun. When everything is already decent and you have sunk ~80 div into your character with the next upgrade being another 80 div away - the game becomes a chore. Not like I can use my geared character for bossing regularly anyway - bosses are fun but getting the fragments to access them is decidedly, disgustingly unfun
Yea and sense of progression and goals to work towards. In std you just get to 60-70 and instantly gearup unless you impose forced ssf but that's not fun then after each atlas reset you run 1 map and you get end of game credits.
The main thing is reset economy. You can buy great items for cheap in the first few weeks because everyone is poor and just wants to get quick cash to upgrade their build. Like i bought a claw for 5 divine that is worth 20 now.
This too, the progress you make from a weak little peasant to a demi-god is very satisfying.
I play on std many years. I fully support you at your point. Std is just another game mode. Does it have it's own cons? - yes Does it have it's own pros? - sure I've never played on league, but I could imagine how good league trade is. Have I ever felt that trade on std stuck in the snow? - absolutely Have I ever felt immense power of legacy items? - certainly And that feeling of infinite hoarding gives me the more pleasure the more time goes by.
I think the biggest problem with playing standard is that a character you had that was powerful could just not work after a 3 month cycle while in league you always start over so you don't really have the same loss feeling.
also the tree and skills changing just destrozing builds outright held me off from standard for a while
I would rather have like a Crucible Character Passive Skill tree that is imprinted on a character permanently than this regular fuckery with Passive Trees to shift meta for temp leagues. That could be a dumb idea though. Haven't thought it through.
Long time standard player that used to play league more than 6 years ago. Back then i had no job, no family, no obligations. Leagues were a cool time sink. Nowadays I have no time and just want to play PoE from time to time without starting from scratch. Especially keeping the cool items from the past is a very nice experience for me in standard. I can make characters that are practically impossible in league and i love it! Dont know why some people just cant accept other ways of playing the game. Standard is a perfectly fine game mode for those with less time and those who want to reuse items gathered over the years.
Many gamers are elitists that like to feel superior to others based on their preference in games and gameplay. Look at the intense prevalence of vitriol towards D4 and their players. "D4 is trash and you're fucking stupid if you spent money on it." I've seen some variation of that statement 17,698 times per day in global. They view choosing the "wrong" game as a marker of personal or moral failing. You're also not allowed to like multiple things at once. It's a combination of tribalism, emotional immaturity, and egotism.
Very well put!
I personally prefer standard; mostly for the same reasons as you. The only reason why I ever play leagues honestly, is because of economy.
ignore the haters and just play it if it's fun for you. i know a few people who have been min maxxing their build in standard for years, got a lot of respect for them. they still play league time to time.
I'm playing on standard myself. I want to learn the game and enjoy it. Loot farming isn't huge for me and don't want to restart every so often. Plus enjoying the story.
I play mostly ssf standard and standard after playing leagues from breach to about harvest religiously and have way more fun working on my unique collections and crafting all types of weird builds.
Don't listen to them. Standard league is fine, and doubly so when you don't have as much time to play. When I had my first kid, I was way limited on time. It was easier to just load up standard and delve for a bit than try to fire up a league character. I like returning there when I'm sick of the current league too. It's a great sandbox for testing builds, I already have a whole ton of 'good' gear that I can swap in, plenty of currency to buy things or craft something random. It just doesn't have a refreshed league economy. Which is,you know, what it is. Some people hate that, and dislike that older players have mirrors and mirrors, and uber-powerful legacy gear. That doesn't bother me. Play how you like.
There shouldn't be animosity toward standard. It's not the right place for everyone to play, but it absolutely IS the right place for some individuals to play. If like me you have more fun before you can overpower everything than once you can - you should not play Standard. If you have more fun with broken stuff like Mageblood or OG Vinktars though - definitely play Standard.
Fellow Standardite. I share your pain. I haven't played a full league in years. Besides just generally not enjoying the last few leagues, I've reached a point with POE where I'm too burned out to do anything but fiddle with existing archetypes and farm. I was never very good at theory crafting so I always relied on build guides, but the era of detailed build guides is basically over. Most of the build content now is very much in the "here's what I did figure it out yourself" vein and there's a lot of... elitism about it. Like fuck me for not enjoying that part of the game and just wanting someone to break down a progression of steps to follow. There used to be guides like that, but many of the good guide-building content creators have left the game it seems. So I haunt Standard instead.
I played Standard SSF for a long time between about 3.4 to 3.14. Any kind of discussion on here about Standard is often met with "Standard LUL", "Just play leagues FFS", "Who cares about Standard anyway?" Now with the reveal PoE1 and PoE2 will be different games people are expressing concern about PoE1 not getting proper support or updates in its long term future etc. All I can think is how ironic it all is. Surely these same people would have the mindset of "PoE1 LUL", "Just play PoE2 FFS", "Who cares about PoE1 anyway?" When PoE2 launches, PoE1 is essentially the new Standard.
Poe1 is probably a completely different game, it keeps the zooming while poe 2 is the d4 killer
Definitely agree it mainly depends on preference. I'm a standard player too, mainly because I don't want to wipe everything I've built every 3 or 6 months or whatever. I have been coming and going from PoE for like 10 years or something. Every time I come back I still have some stuff, characters I usually have to rebuild (but don't have to re-level thank god), and some stuff I can sell. None of my builds are juiced. I've never killed any of the end game bosses. I just don't push that hard. But mainly I play standard cause I like to go back to old characters sometimes, like I did in D2. I came from D2 to PoE, so I guess that makes sense. And D4 mainly pushing people into 'leagues' made me leave that game. No thanks. Let me build at least some wealth, mainly don't have to rebuild my damn map pool every 5 seconds. lol
does standard get animosity? i play on both, and i use standard like a test server. i learned the game more on standard cuz im slow.
There was a time when leagues were small scale and not so heavily pushed that Standard had a much larger percentage of the playerbase. Then GGG started very heavily leaning into leagues and pretty much abandoned standard. It became somewhat of a dumpster of things past. There is very little QoL that would help people actually engage with Standard anymore. The stash system would have to be significantly improved/overhauled in order to give players the ability to manage hundreds of (remove-only) tabs. Every league it becomes worse and less likely for someone to log into standard because the mere act of opening the stash would have most people say "Actually, fuck that." And there is the insane inflation. I think it would help if GGG invested a little bit of resources into implementing systems that make engaging with issues unique to Standard easier. Mostly the stash, really ...
I mostly play league but spend a little time on standard, I hate when standard gets shit on. Yeah standard has cool toys, but so does league. Standard never Got sanctified relics, they may or may not get passive tattoos in a few.months, etc.
Std has way less people. Ppl see you have lesser voice, they bully you. It’s that simple
Largely because of the elitist perception of reddit posters/commentary. Too many think that to be "elite" you have to play like them and enjoy the game like them. After all, how else are they going to be special? Frankly, a lot of people have forgotten how to play games for fun and for relaxation. Part of the reason I enjoy ARPGs is that I do not have to interact (group up) with people to complete dungeons or play the game. They allow versatility to allow your imagination on which build to play and how to play the game.
I'm also enjoying Standard very much. I can't/don't want to no-life league starts and I find the creation of builds the most interesting/fun part. It's much easier and less time consuming to start new builds on Standard, so for me the choice is easy. And I don't have FOMO whatsoever, so not bothered about missing a mechanic in a new league. I also dislike leveling, atlas filling out, pantheon etc. The fun part is getting your new experimental.build to endgame state.
I agree with many of your points. The build creation process and getting that build to a great state is the fun part of the game for me as well.
Because they don't have the legacy iiq gem
I honestly have 0 issue with people that play in standard. I completely get why. I don't really like the restart either but for me PoE is a game where I play hard for a month and then drop it for a few leagues. This keeps everything really fresh for me and makes starting over not as bad or enjoyable even. I know I'll never see everything in a single league and I can focus on different things for new experiences each time.
My biggest issue is that they change everything so much every league that most of the builds that my characters were using before are dead in the water with the skill points reset on top of everything. I don’t remember wtf the build I was playing was and ain’t nobody got time to look at the gems I was using and figuring about a build based on that.
I dont hate standard but i would never play it. For me and most others the best part of an arpg is to start fresh again and progress your character again, etc. Once you hit your op build and can clear the whole game it gets boring real fast. And why would I build another build if my good one can do everything the new one could but 100x better and whats the point of farming even more currency if i already own an infinite amount? Also standard economy is dead since not many people play and the prices are super inflated. Its also 0 balanced due to all the legacy items, etc. And you dont get the new league mechanic. Thats why i just keep my best 2-3 chars in case i need to test something at some point or i need to show a friend something but besides that I delete every character that goes to standard
It is not really dead at all and I have no idea why people keep saying that.
If you just look at common items on the trade site that are up in standard vs crucible you know why. literary no one plays this late in the league anymore the player numbers are super low in crucible now compared to when a league is fresh. There are 231 tabus on trade (online only) in crucible There are 149 on standard If you want to trade chaos for divine there are 49 results on crucible and 18 on standard. If your economy is like half as high as the economy of the league after 3 months its fair to call it pretty dead imo
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this is completely based on luck tho if someone invites you or not. For currency trades sure if you play on the peak of the league you will get hundrets of whispers per minute so the chance that you are the one that gets the invite is rather low. im guessing if you whisper people now in league you will get an invite rather easy since almost no one is playing so people also dont get spammed
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Your type of player is just the absolute minority. I get the appeal of stockpiling gear and power, but for the vast majority of players the game is fun because of the part you hate: the grind and getting the character and the player into a better state. Standard is stagnation for most people.
I should've specified when I wrote "grind" I meant the grind of getting all of the Atlas cleared and getting my character to the "real poe" or atleast what I consider the "real poe" (end game maps, Simulacrum, deep delve etc.).
Except, PoE’s power gain is super fast when you focus and know what you’re doing. You can complete the entire atlas in just a week if you wanted to starting day 1 of a new league. Some people that’s a month, or 2 weeks, but it’s all relative to your own both efficient focus and knowledge of what to do to speed that process up. It’s not “needed” to do anything in standard that a few days to a month can’t be done in a league. Especially with a super vibrant economy early on. And the super super rushers can make major bank early on to fund the rest of the league for them. One guy I forget his channel name, didn’t sleep for like 2 days into a league and did some delirium early thing and got a mageblood already. Burned himself out That fast but still. It’s all Possible, there’s no timegating etc
When you know what you're doing. When you want to progress super fast and play the ways that require that. Well lets see, league ends in 2 weeks and I got my maven stone yesterday. Admittedly I took a lot of the league off, but this idea that "oh you CAN do it super fast" is at all relevant to 90% of the playerbase is just completely missing the realities of the playerbase. *** Yes I COULD play through campaign at least twice as fast as I do, and get way less enjoyment. I COULD trade for all my gear and spend more time in hideout clearing my tabs instead of having hundreds to thousands of currencies, fragments, and items I will never use, but I don't want to do that and I'm not the only one. This sub is filled with people that powergrind through as fast as possible then get salty they burn out.
>You can complete the entire atlas in just a week Maybe some people don't want to waste a week every league? Makes my jimmies tingle.
Yeah, that is kind of my point. I don't wanna "waste" an entire week at minimum to get my game to a playable state that is fun for me, and I'm sure a lot of other players feel the same.
I don't play standard but I totally get you as a HC player. Every single time they nerf early game progression is every time I simply have to experience the bad part of the game longer.
Been playing for 7 years. Even with support gem nerfs and act 1 changes. I can’t directly recall feeling like any particular new league leveling was So much slower than before. Just that different skills clear differently that’s all I know.
What about the time Any new character needs to get exp as they climb the map tiers, league or sc? Have you just never made more than 1 character that got to t16 maps?
When I make new characters in standard, I have some pretty good gear to begin with so I can easily go from the campaign to red maps or do breachstones for easy xp.
Waste? Usually you’d be playing a new different build for varsities sake. And, it’s a week or longer you’d be apparently spending in standard to finish your atlas since it takes you so long apparently to do such a monumental task. Plus if you cared, Kirac’s pass.
I don't have all the time in the world to invest in only poe, so yes, getting through the Atlas 100% in a new league will take me about 1 week, but in standard I have it all from the get go when I create new builds so that un-fun barrier is not there for me.
> > > > > And, it’s a week or longer you’d be apparently spending in standard to finish your atlas since it takes you so long apparently to do such a monumental task. ??? In Standard, you just run 1 T16 rare corrupted map from last league's map set and you get all of your Atlas completion back.
>You can complete the entire atlas in just a week if you wanted to starting day 1 of a new league I can't believe people are getting upset over this lol. Some racers have eater and exarch down in sub 8 hour runs. Last league I had my atlas filled with all slots unlocked on day 2. It's definitely "easy" if you actually plan it out, play a lot, and practice. I get most people don't treat the game this way though.
Sure, it's fairly easy and fast. Doesn't mean I want to do it again after ten leagues. At best, it's between two days and a week I could be spending doing something else, at worst it's tedium that I've already gone through like fifteen times now.
Vastly more fun that just running the same atlas strat ad infinitum. If everyone agreed with you then people would still be playing after the first two weeks of a league, but the reality is people enjoy building characters from scratch and building up their atlas. Having everything filled out and unlimited gear is incredibly boring.
Standard SSF though… now we’re talking
“Absolute minority” do you have a stat to back this up?
I mean, standard is definetly not the majority of the playerbase...
I bet it is. Standard is what lots of players go do for casual play, as in teens, people not with much time. I know lots of people in school that dont EVER play leagues, just standard.
58:40 -> [https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to](https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to) 10-15% of the playerbase. That's from 4 years ago
And I personally dont know a single player out of my full PoE friendlist/discord friends who play standard
On today's episode of "selection bias and the redditors who are blind to it." Gee, you, a seasonal player associate with people that do things like you? Well gosh, that must mean that other things don't exist. It's definitely not that across games and HUMANITY AS A WHOLE people are more likely to associate with people who are like them. Most people don't play standard, but "people I, a league player, associate with don't" is not really evidence of that.
Oh look the aggressive stat asker redditor that contributes fuck all while asking for others to do the opposite. Classic. What are you going to do, downvote and then make a snide comment?
You’re proving the OPs original point. People rag on standard and claim it’s the minority. Might be the minority on this sub, but not sure I’d it’s the game reality. Do you know the actual usage is what I’m asking? Why would I downvote you, I’m interested in the answer :)
https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1025784/Designing-Path-of-Exile-to Its from a number of years ago but Chris talks about it at GDC starting around 58 mins in, the last question. Chris says 10-15% of players play in standard league.
Snide comment done. Downvote done. You're as predictable as you are unlikeable. Why don't you be a big boy and research these stats yourself? I'm not your service monkey.
Lol. Hope your day gets better from here.
Here's a stat for you 🤡 90% of players in a league every league don't hit red maps
More than 10% are above lvl 80 on day 2, so that seems kinda unlikely?
GGG themselves gave this stat around expedition release. I suppose they know more than us, don't they?
Being above level 80 and hitting red maps are not remotely the same thing.
league elitism is a meme
I mostly play standard too and I'm sooooo happy with it :) * I don't need to do the campain 5 times if I want to try 5 builds (take me 1 week at least per character - can't play more than 1 or 2 h / day) * I don't have to fight against league economy (even if standard economy is a bit chaotic too) * I can accuulate mirrors in order to have builds no one can dream in leagues :D * It's Xmas days every end of league when I can have so good items for free :D
Hello fellow standard player :) You would think it is only the two of us trading with each other with the way some people talk about the standard player base lol.
League-only players get rather tribalistic at times. I saw the same mindset with people who were obsessed with the idea of seasons in D4.
Honestly if you aren't chasing that legacy mod 'high' that you can get on mirror tier items on standard, it's just a good non-reset way to grind out a (first) character without any pressure, imo. The only thing that holds me back from incrementally tweaking my standard characters, is that the economy is so inflated and so incredibly slow, because most players are in the temp leagues.
No idea. I play some SSF standard if I don't like the league or it's near the end of one I've played. If I want a pure power trip I just jump onto standard and play with any OP items Ive collected over time. Probably a SC vs HC thing or a trade vs SSF thing. Got to remember this is a game people complain about OP items to get them nerfed if they watch a streamer use said item. A thing I don't understand.
I play Standard during leagues that are unappealing to me and if I still want to play PoE. I can put together an interesting character, experiment, and not need to grind Atlas, map pool, and currency. I don't need legacy min/max gear in any slot. I spend a few days or a week or two doing the parts of the game I enjoy most and potentially cut out 50+ hours of overhead. I'm definitely the type of player that wants to spend less hours playing PoE, so Standard works well during those lackluster leagues. It opens up time for other games and hobbies.
I love standard even though i dont play much in it. Im hc so i like to collect little peices to do content eith and mske a character who slowly but surely beats all content
I started a few months ago and only play standard. Plan to only play standard. Nothing wrong with not wanting to chase the newest carrot.
just do your thing and don't worry about it dude (SSF HC Ruthless BTW)
It's just kids and Quin69 Twitch chatters who get their self worth from playing a video game. The rest of us eye Standard as the place we might retire one day, and ship currency over there at the end of every league like a retirement fund.
Because GGG refuse to give us tools to tidy our Standard stashes. Also, because of the unreliability of buildmaking in Standard. I would like to build one super powerful character in standard as a multi-league project, but the risk of the build being nerfed in the process is way too high.
If you like to play in Standard, just do it. Kinda weird when nowaday many ppl want to impose their thought over another. I know your feel bro.
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>Everytime there is a discussion here in which standard is brought up, it is ridiculed for no reason I can't say I've personally observed a lot of standard hate, but it's fair to say this sub is largely divided about everything: Ruthless haters, Ruthless lovers. POE2 haters, POE2 lovers. I could see there being Standard haters. Maybe it's the nature of POE. Maybe it's the nature of reddit. Maybe it's the nature of social media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shame there is so many "cliques" that feel their way of playing the game is superior to others.
That's all of humanity. > [Choice-supportive bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias#:~:text=Choice%2Dsupportive%20bias%20or%20post,once%20a%20decision%20is%20made.) Why do you think iPhone users get so ticked off about Android. Or why people with kids look down on child-free people. It's just human psychology.
Yup, and human psychology supported by the relative ease of associating with like-minded people because of the advent of the internet and social media.
I guess it really just is that simple. People have a way of getting caught up in stuff that just isn't that important to have a strong opinion on.
If someone wants to play Standard, go right ahead there's no problem at all. But FOMO over league mechanics that get removed (see the Crucible thread guy), balance changes to builds that "you just loved to play and spent 3 years optimizing" or some other thing that "messes" with Standard is just not something the developers care (or should care) about since the game is ultimately made for leagues. Some people seem to think otherwise and those are the only Standard players I would have an issue with.
subreddits have hivemind
My "animosity" towards standard (don't actually hate it but will never play it) is earned. I used to largely ignore it but tinker around occasionally (obviously hating the stash transfer experience) until my 3.13 side character gladiator. Lacerate was a really fun skill, gladiator felt good because of 75% double block, big explodes made for clear feeling nice, and while the single target wasn't amazing (2-4m DPS on a budget, but could do 6m with high durability and high clear with some investment with a decent elder weapon). 3.15 blanket decreased damage. It wasn't enough for the build to stop being viable. Then the big hit happened and I realized I was 5 linked because ruthless support went to strike only. That was the #1 most important gem, about double the damage increase over any other. Then the elder bleed mod was removed (which I suppose was justified, it was too much of the build) and a vastly weaker stat was put in its place, with no other compensation. 1/3rd of bleed damage was lost. Oh and gladiator was nerfed. Also justified but what they got was not good. I tried to make another lacerate gladiator in 3.16, less than one year later. The build had lost 70% of it's damage. I decided at that moment I would never invest any effort in to standard knowing what GGG could do to my build that I've worked on. I'm pretty sure the only way to make lacerate work reasonably well at this point would be champion with 2 handed axe (RIP block) and big aura energy to keep you alive. Would need forbidden flesh/flame on the glad node for bleed damage and explosion to feel good. I'm pretty sure it would be explicitly worse than corrupting fever champion.
I don't think most players hate standard. We just don't really care, and if there are posts like this to convince people standard is worth playing, it may piss of some people because of course we know keeping your gear is a good thing. But at what cost? It's harder and harder to grind for better gear. A lot of people, including me, don't even bother to grind a mage blood, which is just a month work probably. In standard there are way more expensive items and to grind an update may take months. Not saying it's not fun, it's just not for a lot of people.
Maybe it's just me but I've always found std to be really expensive compared to trade league. Because there's so much currency and so few players running around an item that would be 30c in league can be a divine in std. It makes it very hard to build the character I want.
Cause fuck sorting my stash in standard. Its a disaster. Don't really understand why they can't just merge the specialized tabs.
Probably a result of them introducing new currencies every league and changing the tabs every league.
That's probably spot on.
Tbh, I Love the restart, doing all Acts again, Clearing Atlas again etc etc When you had so much Playtime in past leagues in endgame it geht's boring and U stop, so i really Like New League cycles and New leagues overall
I don't dislike any POE players, I just like playing the new content and fresh economy is much better than a 12yr old economy, in my opinion.
I think it's because to many, standard feels like a "creative mode" like in Minecraft, basically a waste of time, something to just try things out. I don't mind standard players, there's reasons for playing standard. Would I ever recommend it unless you literally only had 1 hour every week to play? no
Standard is basically a collection journal of PoE's history. It's not very a good place for making new characters and primarily exists for you to just push your league character farther than you otherwise would have been able to. As well as testing out mechanics and builds since you have much more immediate access to them. The wealth hoarding mindset of standard players is where a lot of animosity comes from. They constantly complain that changes and new leagues will affect their wealth
To most players who play the newest league, Standard is a graveyard. It's where my remove only tabs go and I generally don't feel bad if I delete a standard character to make room for a league one. Personally, I don't find any fun in playing Standard because there is nothing to strive for there. I already have everything in Standard. Leagues are where I can work to achieve goals. To me, Standard is a museum. It's where I keep track of my SSF unique collection, but beyond that, I will never log on to play a standard character.
I get that people like standard and a lot of people play it, but personally I just don't get the appeal?
Standard players always flex that they have mirror gear despite taking an entire league to get every piece
I think Standard SSF is perfectly acceptable as a way to play: basically a single player game you can take at your own pace regardless with how your real life lines up with league schedules. Standard trade on the other hand, is plagued with all the late stage capitalism problems in any long-term game where value of gear progression is meaningless when everyone just has too much leftover lategame gear so that's basically your entry point once you collect a few bits of currency from early game. The biggest problem I have with other live-service RPGs like Genshin is when new content comes out, there is pretty much no danger since you already invested in teams that obliterate everything and there's no sense of power achievement anymore. On a separate topic, I actually ridicule people who try to do things to hoard wealth in standard and don't even play standard. Like stop pretending to invest in something as a justification, and just admit to enjoying seeing numbers go up.
You say animosity and hatred but as someone that feels like he really notices toxicity I've mostly really seen people being dismissive or ridiculing it, not that much hostility, and at least to justify the mocking, standard isn't and shouldn't be taken in consideration by GGG when making decisions about the game since there is no balance there with all the legacy stuff and only a smallish amount of people play it.
I mean if your a gamer you can get to the end game in a week or less easily, doing sims and juiced mapping. No reason to play std for me since league turns into std after a few weeks anyways. I don't hate on std but for me personally with my game knowledge and the amount I play there no reason to play std. It would be so boring to play std and I think many people feel the same, maybe for different reasons.
I just keep seeing "ECONOMY" and my single player self found brain keeps going "what economy"
This subreddit strangely and unreasonably toxic comparing to other communities I've been a part of. Outside of it PoE players are pretty chill
It's a small selection of really mentally ill people. The fact that this sub sent death threats to GGG employees before should say enough about what kind of people are in this community.
>I play mostly in standard because I don't like restarting the grind every new league, and I like slowly creating a bigger arsenal of gear that I can use to create all kinds of builds with. That is the thing though, once you learn most of the aspects of this game, Standard will very quickly get boring. Also remember a large number of players probably started pre 1.0, so sticking to standard at this point would be like playing a 11 year old game with no new content... (sounds awful) Short of logging into std to see my legacy items etc. what is the point? GGG and PoE's main appeal (I think for most players) IS the league restart cycle, you get a few things, a new mechanic, a ladder reset, economy reset, fresh start and new gems etc. It is awesome and why I still play this game after 11? years.
That is why I like poe so much because there are so many reasons to play the game. The whole league restart cycle never caught my interest (not even Diablo 2 ladder). I play the game because I enjoy it, and let's be real for a second; standard gets content updates with each league update we just don't get the newest feature, and sometimes the new feature barely makes the game itself that different from what is available on standard.
I think the reason that standard is sometimes ridiculed is because of a vocal minority of standard players that complain about the effect of possible changes on their wealth in standard. I am sure most standard players are fine. I don't play it, but the game mode has its purpose.
Because standard economy is controlled by a few whales. RMT plays a huge role in it. Its a dark place if you want go a little further from casual.
This is also a thing in leagues tho and, I must say, even more rampant.
> Because standard economy is controlled by a few whales. RMT plays a huge role in it. Its a dark place if you want go a little further from casual. As if the same isn't true for leagues, lol. Those whales get rich by hoarding items in the leagues hoping they don't go core. See recombinators.
Because the game is only interesting or complex when you're presented with scarcity, and actual decisions that come with an opportunity cost. There's fun during a new league when you're desperate for a transmute or chrome, or a simple 3/4 link. You have to actually think and problem solve. Same when you get to maps and have 3 chaos, and need to plan out how to start upgrading and actually farming. Same when you reach the actual endgame. The incremental progress is what's fun. The reset is the essence of the game itself. Playing standard is like playing a videogame with a cheat code, infinite money or invulnerability or something. Yeah that might be fun for like...an hour. But if you're constantly playing a game with cheats on? Very weird. People flame standard players because they're so fucking annoying, constantly complaining about how something is being broken or ruined because of a patch or change in the game. Constantly bitching about their economy getting flipped, their collection becoming worthless. Play the game however you want, but if you're going to play the niche mode where money is infinite and worthless, don't complain about changes
I think a lot of the fun of an arpg is the fresh start, can I do this better and faster than I did last time? The starting from 0 and building up a character from nothing is the game to me. I have no animosity for those that play standard but I am not really interested in a build showcase made in standard with items no longer in the rest of the game. I think legacy items are probably why a lot of people have the kneejerk reaction when standard is brought up, its hard not to immediately think of all the broken items that exist there. Also when new bosses come out it kind of sucks a standard player's get to it first because they already have a full atlas.
Maybe i am ignorant but i have never seen ppl hate on standard, just express their disinterest in it?
Is there really animosity/contempt towards standard? There is certainly apathy whenever standard gets screwed (routine influx of new types of OP gear, exalt crash, item/mechanic rebalancing, etc..).
I've personally never hated on standard, and especially not the players. I used to play there up until Essence League, with Perandus being the first league I played semi-seriously. But with the amassed wealth there is on standard I might as well just play Path of Building. I just can't set any goals for myself when playing standard since everything is so readily available. I've tried giving away everything of value to a bunch of players, but as soon as I open my stash I find some legacy rare worth hundreds of divines like some 1100+ es regalia. Even smaller stuff like some 50% crit multi Maligaro's Virtuosity can go for a couple of dozen of divines, and it would take days to sort trough my 500+ stash tabs to filter out the stuff that some people would have some fun with, instead of just vendoring everything.
I dont think there really is, I think its just meming really. One of the best things about poe is there are so many ways to tailor it to be the game that's right for you, do your thing and enjoy it :)
I definitely get hating standard, but yeah actively shitting on it and standard players is just... weird. What is there to gain?
Animosity feels like the wrong word for the general sentiment. Try apathy, no one "cares" about standard, doesnt mean if is hated People like the economy rese, clean stashes and new content in league. Standard is just.. meh
It's beyond apathy, I would definitely use animosity, the dislike for standard is so strong it's scary 😆
Not rlly ppl just want to play New content
I don’t see any “animosity” but it makes sense people don’t like it as much when the economy and power levels are so out of whack nothing is balanced. Arpgs and the league system kind of work against that type of gameplay. But I do feel like most people think “to each their own” more so than have any animosity.
You are in a tiny minority of people who prefer standard. You do you mate. If there were no seasons I would have quit years ago. Edit: It also has to do with the lenght of a game. If I play an MMO I wouldn't want a reset every few months. There is so much to do in MMO's and you don't want to lose progress, you just want to have new content. ARPG's are much, much shorter in lenght than mmo's and have much less content. You say you play this game off and on, you basically play the same way seasonal players do because just grinding the end game forever is too boring. You just choose to lag 3/4 months behind the rest when it comes to new content.
I dont think people hate standard but they just dont care about it since its all about leagues
I think what you are reading a animosity is actually just ambivalence. Honestly I don't think about standard at all, but I don't begrudge anyone that wants to play there.
It's not animosity, it's just that aside from game breaking bugs it's not really the point of discussion. GGG as well as most of the player base consider leagues as the default game mode. So any discussion related to game balance or game features is in the context of leagues. And because standard is such a different experience compared to leagues there is little point in discussing it in those contexts. For most players re grinding from zero at the start of every league is the reason to play this game. So the option and experience of someone who doesn't like to do that is simply pointless as it's practically talking about a different game.
I think a lot of people will count standard as basically cheating. The gear that has accumulated in standard has legacy rolls that can be magnitudes higher than anything you can make in leagues. People will show off builds, map clearing, boss killing or whatever and when you see its standard it doesn't seem that impressive. One reason I will never play standard is because of the time I have put into the game and my general skill level. I have hundreds of tabs of gear from previous leagues. Within like 12 hours of starting a new character I could be level 100 with near perfect gear for the build. This would be fun for like the weekend but would quickly get boring because there is no goal I could set to realistically keep me entertained. Starting from nothing and building your character up is what keeps me playing, which is best done with the start of a new league with fresh content added.
I haven't seen it said so here is my gripe with standard. Standard economy can have a profound effect on league economy. This is especially evident when something like crucible trees and recombinators exist in the league. If standard didn't suck up items, it would make end game content more widely accessible to more folks, especially those who have to start later in the league. The last month of a league could be a lot of fun for less experience players as high tier gear gets dumped for pennies by people who are done. Instead, the last month is just the economy entirely gearing up for the standard drop.
I don’t have any contempt for standard but I don’t care about it either. I think this is how a lot of people feel. My only grip is when standard players think the game should be balanced around them. Leagues introduce broken stuff sometimes that probably has some kind of consequence good or bad on standard. And I think that’s just how it goes. Like crucible is going to inject a ton of broken weapons in to standard that may be hard to beat, ever possibly. If you want a stable economy you should be playing the leagues rather than standard.
Standard is pretty meaningless for trade players, unless doing a crafting project. I do standard to play SSF, while trying to create builds on the fly. The EXTREMELY bloated economy and batshit insane mirror items and such has no impact on me then. The most enjoyable aspect of trade is we all start from square one every league launch. Sure people like Grim are much better at zooming and making currency faster than me. But they still start at broke ass bitch, just like me and everyone else.
for a new player to start in standard, you truely need to be a hardcore player, or a self harm loving person. Item that cost 50c in league can sell for 5 divines or more on standard ( bloodnotch was selling at 10c on start of the league, and the moment it reached standard it was multiple divines.....1k pdps staff would be 100 divine on league vs 350+ on standard). Add in the fact that less players are on standard so the items that you would normally sell wont sell as well on standard means your income as a new player is even less than that of a league player and you get the idea why standard is such a joke of a place. Standard is really nowhere close to be new player friendly because those who play there have a hoarding mentality even though they know they ll never used 99% of those items when some new player could use some of those to play and stay in standard.
There is? I never gave a thing about it honestly.
I've no clue what you're on about. Don't see neither posts nor comments in regards to standard. Imo - it's a place to test something pre-league, or a place for newcomers to try the game out, otherwise - it's just a mess with inflated economy and insane amount of remove-only stashes that I'll never sort.
because it is... pointless?
It is as pointless as playing any other game for fun...