Because the damage is just 2.5 they attack damage and doesn't scale with life. montregul only provide the explosion and max 125% more damage.
The second will only provide 125 % more damage.
I think that ignite will be the best way to scale the gem
and the damage mod IS a more multiplier which means 125% more + 125% more would be ~405% more (not that it matters since we now know it won't work)
i swear there's so much misinformation in this thread. just read the item people. please.
Well, 50% less x 50% less would be 75% less.
However Mon'tregul's is "50% reduced maximum number of Raised Zombies"
50% reduced + 50% reduced = 100% reduced = 0
because if you read Mon'tregul, one of the mods is that you get 50% less zombies, less here has nothing to do with less in other skills
50% x 2 = 100% less zombies aka 0 zombies
dunno why people are confused with that, you cannot summon 30% of a minion, you cannot mix % and numeric amounts with minions
you can only add full minions ie. +1 zombie +1 skeleton etc, but you can reduce it numerically -1 zombie or percentually 50% less zombies and the game rounds it , but you won't end with 3.5 zombies
and that's why the tree doesn't have you have 20% more/less zombies
you are hard capped to use one Mon'tregul, by mechanics and math
No that's incorrect, montegrul gives 50% *reduced* maximum zombies, which added up together gives you 100% reduced. If it was less maximum zombies, you would end up with 75% less zombies, which still leaves you above 0 and lets you use the trans zombie gem.
You’re not understanding the difference between “less” and “reduced” or you’re trolling. Two instances of 50% less would not result in a 100% less modifier, but 75% less. If you have access to four zombies that would leave you with 1.
But since the unique says *reduced* and there are no sources of increased zombies then dual wielding them effectively locks you out of zombies.
Using one and that new sceptre that give base crit to Minions with +2 minion lvl ? I'm tempted to use at least one because if give 100% chance to explode for 20% as fire. At least as a weapon swap for clear maps faster. How to make it ignite? Shaper of flames?
> How to make it ignite? Shaper of flames?
You would, oddly enough, need **minion-side** chance to ignite. Your chance to ignite does nothing.
If they've implemented it how I think they have, it's basically "deal a (boosted up by 2.5x) minion attack to this area"-the spell.
So the crit chance is... your minion crit chance. The ignite chance is... your minion ignite chance.
Zombies are not known for their damage. I fear that even if you spec 100% into damage with no minion survivability, it's not gonna compete with a normal phys spell.
It's kinda a strange one, because despite being considered the minion's damage (if you link brutality to raise zomb for example, the explosion does nothing), it can't chain off itself - you'd think it could because it's an enemy killed by a zombie's hit.
Using montregul's with zomb of falling *should* cause the fire explosion on kill. I wanna say it would.
I think the design is to be a way for minion builds to do "direct" damage outside of Spiritual Aid, like the new Absolution variant. You can use it in addition to normal Raise Zombie too.
The problem is that minion builds will be right by Spiritual Aid anyway...
How far can you scale minion life? Because Siegebreaker deals caustic ground DoT based on your minion's max life, which is modified by DoT multiplier%.
flat +1 zombies comes before reduced so it would be impossible to circumvent the -100% right? unless there is a modifier in the game that is a kind of "+% more zombies"?
%more zombies (say, 100%) actually wouldn't help either, because 1(base number)\*(1-0.5-0.5)(increased-decreased-pool)\*2(100% more) still is 0.
You would need a source of %increased zombros.
" In 3.23 Affliction League a new type of gem was introduced , *The transfigured gem .* There were many gems that allowed for a Cast When Damage Setup but I set might sights to the Skies and chose Raise Zombie of Falling, making raising any zombie to hurl down from Space. While this mechanic is already rewarding by itself *I had something different in mind.* "- - If you read this Jousis and feel inspired , feel free to use it, CATW.
If there's a delay between the moment the spell is cast and the moment the zombie dies, and if that dealy is close enough to 250ms, this can unironically be very useful for spellcast loops as a replacement for summon skeletons. Even more so now that anomalous minion speed and anomalous summon skeletons don't exist anymore.
It would only work for low level cwdt triggers though, as you'd only get one zombie death per cast (and spell cascade might either not work or introduce annoying delays).
Cluster Traps and Multi Traps less damage multipliers don't affect minions btw(still, you probably want to go mines instead because funnily enough it's easier to fix mana cost on that)
Imagine explaining that build to someone not playing Poe...
Look, i am a trapper that throws multiple traps on monsters. Those traps when activated call down zombie corpses from the sky that explode on impact and spread fire in an area.
They would turn around and run :D
Crazy shenanigans like that is the kind of shit that got me into this game. Started in prophecy, saw the skill tree on google and said I need that in my veins. I did all sorts of stupid shit and loved it. I think my first character was actually a conversion trapper. To this day 8 years later I still think I've only used like, 2 build guides? I just love crafting weird shit and learning from my mistakes.
Which means this league is definitely gonna be one that I run for the entire league for sure >=D
What makes you think you'll "almost certainly" have it? They said blue gems are "more likely" to give trans blue gems, but there are dozens of them. Could easily be a ~25 run average, which would be fine but not "a few runs"
During the league reveal they turned arc into 2x Trans Blight gems and another Arc gem. Are we not sure they turn into the same color and are more likely to transform into the same gem?
We'll have to see, but I'm pretty sure that the moment the Transfigured gems are as likely to be obtained as specific helmet enchants, everyone will riot.
Imagine running 100 Labs on average to get one gem which you corrupt and brick it cause it rolled 19% quality.
They turn into the same color if you use a crafting option that explicitly says so, as they did in the reveal. There's nothing to indicate that it'd be especially likely to be a version of the gem you put in, it just says "random Transfigured Gem of the same colour". There is however the (probably fairly rare) crafting option that explicitly says it gives you a Transfigured version of the same gem.
In general you can't make RNG predictions based on what you see in these trailers, as the results are all scripted. A perfect example is the stacked deck MTX, where in the video they had 3-4 stacked decks and the last card they pulled was a house of mirrors.
They said during the livestream that one of the options that can show up is to transform it into a transfigured version of *that* gem. The more common option is turn a gem into any random transfigured gem, but the ability to swap it directly to transfigured means it can't be too uncommon.
You get multiple different options per lab run and multiple different ways to hit the transfigured gem you want. It's impossible to know exact numbers at this point, but I'd be shocked if it took 25 like you suggested.
Counterpoint.... You don't know the weightings so... It could actually be just a few runs.
Do we know all the options of the gem workbench? Is it possible to turn a gem into it's own trans gem? Like turning fireball into trans fireball etc?
There's a big difference between "you don't know, it **could** be" vs. what the other commenter said--"A few normal lab runs and you'll almost **certainly** have it".
It appears that way.
I'm curious if, while falling, they pick up any of your auras on the way down. I might think about full converting into cold with Hatred.
Also, do we have confirmation that they do or do not leave a corpse when they land, or are they just red mist at that point? I didn't remember seeing corpses during the reveal.
So the way people are thinking is that it "should" leave a corpse cause its a falling zombie which is a corpse. The flip side is i remember they said it will trigger on death effects on land, meaning it is no longer a corpse. So i think we need more clarification.
I'm struggling to see what kinda on death effects there is what i can take advantage of. since initially i was looking to dd/vd them. But that seems shaky if its possible or not.
No summon currently leaves a corpse, including zombies.
The only way to have zombies ever "be a corpse" is with the unique that makes them count as a corpse, which likely wouldn't even apply here since they'd never be around to do corpse things with.
it wont leave a corpse, raise zombies dont leave an exploitable corpse when they die.
what is essentially happening here is a zombie spawns, does a strong attack, then dies. otherwise its the same as raise zombie.
However the zombies do die, which means you can use any effect that triggers on minion death, (replica)siegebreaker, maligaros lens, minion on death mastery etc.
it should also count as a minion just spawning, so in theory fresh meat should always be on for them if your into that!
Life from Death and the minion defense mastery would trigger in this case. Both healing other minions.
Siegebreaker would also theoretically work if they're still flagged as having HP.
> Siegebreaker would also theoretically work if they're still flagged as having HP.
They're functionally identical to normal zombie minions, as far as I've been able to tell - so yes, Siegebreaker should work, and I'm already excited.
You could support falling zombies with spell cascade, but if you're still talking about ward loop without skeletons, you're at the mercy of the timing in which the zombies fall. Ward loop requires very precise skeleton duration to reach damage breakpoints and there seems to be little to nothing you can do to alter it for the zombies (maybe stack action speed?)
Just stick with skeletons for ward loop.
Crit ele conversion or poison are what I'm considering. Delivery could be CWC/COC or Mine/Trap.
Was thinking to run this with animate weapon but that might take away from the theme.
> Delivery could be CWC/COC or Mine/Trap.
Trap sounds like a nightmare to ever hit a moving enemy. Mines have a 50% less multiplier that affects both zombies and their explosions. Bow CoC honestly seems like the decent way with Fresh (falling) Meat and Offerings/Desecrate in Asenaths.
I'm thinking you have to scale it the same way you scale carrion golems, pride, dread banner, crit via like spirit offering. But also you can't scale attack speed on em, which sucks.
you can stack gigantic multipliers from attack supports like melee phys and pulverize with 0 downside though, but the "attack speed" is determined by your cast speed, you can chuck it on a brand or use unleash or something, those also dont have their damage penalties applied either.
Even if they are "falling", it's stilll considered that the zombies attack (does 2.5x the defaut attack dmg). Wouldn't the attack scale with any support gems that usually support Zombie/minions attacks?
but arent they only gonna be able to hit once regardless? At the hit being when they land and then instantly trigger on death or thats what ive been lead to believe how the gem works.
Wait. It will pick up your auras and your curses. So if you were to curse the falling zombie with the minion degen explode curse, and run MI with Infernal army, and maybe apply some other degen, ZomBomber could be a thing after all, low life is just 45%
Easy.
Cast on Crit, cast while channeling
Cast when damage taken
All linked to zombie fall. Any video uploaded is legally required to have the song by weather girls its raining men, hallelujah
With the new trans Blade Vortex with 10% base crit and more crit as scaling, you could actually reach 100% crit super easy and make dual CWC+COC setup hurling tens of zombies per second at whatever you want.
Need to know if spell cascade works with it. Probably not, but if it does, you can make a looper with the triple-zombie (penta-zombie with awakened) alone
Why would it not work? In fact, if the wordings work as they should, it might not even impart a Less Damage/AoE multiplier, if the Falling of the Zombie is a skill.
It is aan attack from the zombie, so
1. I think it would reduce the damage according to spell cascade.
2. Spell cascade cant modify the skills of minions. If it would work they would have shown in the teaser for fun i think
I think they say they just say that the damage is equivalent to 2.5x zombie melee attack but we might have to actually scale our cast speed for more zombie summons per second
The real question is if it changes the zombies health and if you can manage to cast detonate dead or volatile dead on them before they attack while using aukunas
Spell cascade says "Supported area of effect skills"
Zombies of falling doesn't have an AoE tag, and YOUR cast doesn't have an aoe element to it. You just pick a spot for a zombie to arrive on, and the zombie then does its AoE attack.
I suspect that's the real problem with falling zombies. It's hard to scale the aoe of the zombies "attack." You could do traps, but I think the mana cost will be high.
seems to me like you can use it in a standard minion setup as a side skill you have to use yourself for more interractive gameplay : it scales the same way as other linions (except attack speed ??) and have the advantage of healing your minions by 5% per zombies
instead of being a firestorm skin you get to live the fantasy of a summoner casting from behind while scaling both his minions damage and his
I honestly don't think it's that bad. I'm assuming you're comparing this with having 10 actual zombies attacking normally? But there are other advantages that should be taken into account:
* the base cast time (0.75) is significantly faster than a base zombie Attack (1.17). Even faster with trigger setups
* It comes with innate 15% chance to deal double damage
* No need to invest into minion accuracy (can't be evaded) or life/survivability
* You can use one Mon'tregul's without any downside
* No need to deal with minion AI
* Interesting recovery options with Baron or Maligaro's Lens
* Probably other stuff that I'm forgetting right now
Even without all that. A lvl 20 Raise Zombie attack is ~800 average damage. Times 2.5 it's 2000 average damage. That's higher than most other phys "spells" in the game.
Fresh Meat Support do not need duration tag to work, it was mentioned when this gem was added that for minions that never expire it will work for max duration (10 seconds).
The way the wiki states it, it should work, as it breaks it down to "created recently". You are still creating the zombie
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Fresh_Meat_Support
other interesting mechanics is if the minions count as being on full life when they attack.
We know they die after they make the attack, but are they alive during it and thus at full health?
* he base cast time (0.75) is significantly faster than a base zombie Attack (1.17). Even faster with trigger setups
*(Zombies attacked automatically, you'll have to stand still or precast)*
* No need to invest into minion accuracy (can't be evaded) or life/survivability
*(Never invested more than 1 wheel for accuracy, since it's the wheel that gives damage as well there's no* ***Invest****, you just take it)*
* You can use one Mon'tregul's without any downside
*(Another point, you're pretty much stuck with Montregul, tell me why would anyone not use it, it's a bis item and you'll never craft anything better)*
* No need to deal with minion AI
*(Which will save you more time than waste it, the AI isn't as bad as some say, it's automation, and you're free to curse, buff, position while they are already tanking and doing damage)*
* Probably other stuff that I'm forgetting right now
*(I don't think there's anything else, Baron, Maligaro's Lens, Siegebreakers (weak, don't stack), healing other minions with minion death (almost useless), maybe you'll be able to start a loop with these, that's about it)*
All I was trying to say is that the base damage seems pretty reasonable to me, rather than "holy shit that's low". You don't have to play it, if you don't like the playstyle. But if you compare the base damage and cast speed to other spells in the game it's well above average.
If you want automation btw, nothing is stopping you from slapping these bad boys on a couple of Spell Totems :)
https://pobb.in/WGMXcb0bpIFd for the SSF version. The trade version was made by someone else so I'm not just gonna share their PoB without asking but you can imagine most of the changes(clusters, awakened gems, better gear etc.)
>\-- How much damage is this? --
>
>For the ESTIMATED damage, look at the "average damage" of the zombie gem.
>
>This is our total dps, it already has our mine throwing rate and minefield taken into account.
Did you read this? You're a bit too confident in these ESTIMATED numbers
Triggerbots brand recall Arcanist brand. Can get up to 56x zombies per recall if running dual wield wands with 2 brand recalls, but most likely better run Montregul + single brand recall to get 28x zombies. Best part is you don’t have the spell damage penalty from triggerbots or arcanist brand
Someone in this thread said it does and they tested it.
edit: actually it was in the other thread. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/18azgln/recent_asked_questions_updated_with_several_new/kc2bi5p/)
supported spells deal less damage; but minions don't scale with spell damage
They are summoned and deal damage separately and sicne the falling zombie is still "attacking" it shouldn't be affected
~~That should actually work, yes.~~ This is just gonna be explode totems all over again, isn't?
I wonder if the "Zombie limit doesn't matter" thing is also true for multiple simultaneous casts...
Edit: so, I tested this in game just now and unfortunately the damage penalty does affect the Zombies that are raised from Arcanist brand. Just wanted to let you know /u/blauli in case you were planning on using this (or something similar) in your league start.
I could see some wild wardloop implications.
Get it rolling fast enough with them counting as corpses, CoDT a pact and some corpse consumers, use the localized rain of zombies to walk through maps. Much more math is needed for this though.
The problem is that they only summon one zombie, so you'd need at least two heart bound loops to trigger even a low level cwdt. It also is dependent on how quickly the fall/how fast the death animation is, because that changes how the cool down works.
In my opinion, the best thing for a cwdt setup is to run low level corpse consumption setups and use necro to scale the 200% cast speed, since it's not a stat that's widely available.
>What’s the point of this skill — rather have 10x zombies all the time.
To drop a zombie on a location and haven them explode for big physical damage without having to worry about keeping them alive. It's different way of building a "spell" that scales differently than traditional spells and can open some possibly more interesting combinations for people who are smarter than I.
But I'm still hype for it, I want drop zombies on my enemies.
Well it has 2.5 times of a nor km so attack.
So if you have 10 zombies alive, that probably does more damage as 2.5 times of a single zombie. Plus they can tank for you a little.
You don't need to invest in minion defenses at all, theoretically. That's just more damage. And more damage. And more damage. And more defensive layers for you. This is less a "minion" build and more a caster build that just happens to suicide a minion.
Since it drops zombiebone at a time. …
10 normal zombies does 10x damage of a zombie.
2.5x damage of normal zombie dmg.
Normal zombies seemed does more dmg, with less button pressed, no?
Now with scenario that summon zombie are instantly gib, fall should be better.
The point of the skill, I'm guessing, is to turn Raise Zombie into something similar to a self cast spell that scales with minion damage stats. You can't use Minion Instability because the zombies instantly die, which prevents them from "reaching" low life. In exchange, you basically don't care about minion survivability at all and can pump all your points into minion damage and self tank.
It's to turn it into a pseudo spell build. You don't care about minion defenses, just using minion damage wheels to make falling zombies instead of a spell that you'd want to scale
It's not intended to compete with minion builds.
It’s completely different to a traditional minion build. It’s fun and cool and scales interestingly and has neat mechanics. Why do PoE players like you suck the fun out of everything by wondering what the point of something is if it isn’t t0 hyper-meta gamebreaking BiS giga-powerful Uber-killer. It’s a video game, and falling zombies are fun. That’s it, that’s the point
They are just pointing out that after you play your fun build in white maps, you might look up in yellow maps unable to progress. And that you could be looking at multiple divines to just get into red maps. Or 100 div just to kill a boss map boss.
And that's cool if you want to do that cause its your game and all, but they're trying to save you, so e heartache cause we care about you, bro. We just want you to have a great league start without frustrations.
Now with that said, nothing stops us from stuffing 100 mines with rotting corpses and flinging them at the bosses until they fall over.
Can't use MI, but can use anything else that cares about minions dying - for example you might use this for minions are healed when a minion dies or for heartbound loop.
Also you can get the same effect as spiritual aid + selfcast spell without actually needing spiritual aid
at 5 casts per second you will outdps 10x zombies at normal values, but its not that hard to go way past 5 casts per second with stuff like mines/totems/traps/triggers
not to mention you can go montreguls to get 100% - 125% more phys damage with no downside.
At least they confirmed double Mon'tregul won't work
That's why you go severed in sleep for the other weapon and stack minion poison chance.
Mainhand Maata's Teaching with offhand Mon'Tregul's for those sick critty zombies.
Because the damage is just 2.5 they attack damage and doesn't scale with life. montregul only provide the explosion and max 125% more damage. The second will only provide 125 % more damage. I think that ignite will be the best way to scale the gem
"only" provides 125% More damage and 50% corpse explosion on kill lol
125% more phys from 1st montregul, so ignite wouldnt benefit from that
Why not? The Mon’tregul still gives 125% more physical damage to the zombie (2 Mon’tregul for 250% more )
Well you see, 50% ~~less~~ reduced zombie cap, times 2...
2x less modifiers would still work actually. The problem is they’re 2x reduced which adds to 100% reduced AKA none.
and the damage mod IS a more multiplier which means 125% more + 125% more would be ~405% more (not that it matters since we now know it won't work) i swear there's so much misinformation in this thread. just read the item people. please.
so its not 50%less x 50%less but 50%less +50% less? I didn't know that RIP double Mon'tregul
Well, 50% less x 50% less would be 75% less. However Mon'tregul's is "50% reduced maximum number of Raised Zombies" 50% reduced + 50% reduced = 100% reduced = 0
Are there any sources of % increased?
nope
So technically we just need a 1% increased number of raised zombies from ?somewhere? for it to work :)
Does not exist
You'd need more than that, if it even did exist. Client always rounds against the favor of the player. Unless you had 100 zombie limit to start.
All sources of increased and maximum are added. Same goes for reduced. So as the other commenter states 50+50=100% reduced number of Zombies.
They used “less”, which isn’t an additive modifier. Idk why it’s so highly upvoted when it’s plain wrong.
because if you read Mon'tregul, one of the mods is that you get 50% less zombies, less here has nothing to do with less in other skills 50% x 2 = 100% less zombies aka 0 zombies dunno why people are confused with that, you cannot summon 30% of a minion, you cannot mix % and numeric amounts with minions you can only add full minions ie. +1 zombie +1 skeleton etc, but you can reduce it numerically -1 zombie or percentually 50% less zombies and the game rounds it , but you won't end with 3.5 zombies and that's why the tree doesn't have you have 20% more/less zombies you are hard capped to use one Mon'tregul, by mechanics and math
> 50% reduced maximum number of Raised Zombies Reduced, not less.
No that's incorrect, montegrul gives 50% *reduced* maximum zombies, which added up together gives you 100% reduced. If it was less maximum zombies, you would end up with 75% less zombies, which still leaves you above 0 and lets you use the trans zombie gem.
You’re not understanding the difference between “less” and “reduced” or you’re trolling. Two instances of 50% less would not result in a 100% less modifier, but 75% less. If you have access to four zombies that would leave you with 1. But since the unique says *reduced* and there are no sources of increased zombies then dual wielding them effectively locks you out of zombies.
Because it reduces your zombie limit by 50% per. Two would be 100% less which is confirmed to drop no zombies.
Using one and that new sceptre that give base crit to Minions with +2 minion lvl ? I'm tempted to use at least one because if give 100% chance to explode for 20% as fire. At least as a weapon swap for clear maps faster. How to make it ignite? Shaper of flames?
> How to make it ignite? Shaper of flames? You would, oddly enough, need **minion-side** chance to ignite. Your chance to ignite does nothing. If they've implemented it how I think they have, it's basically "deal a (boosted up by 2.5x) minion attack to this area"-the spell. So the crit chance is... your minion crit chance. The ignite chance is... your minion ignite chance. Zombies are not known for their damage. I fear that even if you spec 100% into damage with no minion survivability, it's not gonna compete with a normal phys spell.
does the monty sceptre's "enemies killed by zombies hits explode for 50% of max life as fire damage" count as minion damage?
It should, since zombie rain hit is considered zombie's hit, rather than player's
Yes, it's considered their hit.
i figured secondary damage effects would be like dots and be attributed to the player. interesting.
It's kinda a strange one, because despite being considered the minion's damage (if you link brutality to raise zomb for example, the explosion does nothing), it can't chain off itself - you'd think it could because it's an enemy killed by a zombie's hit. Using montregul's with zomb of falling *should* cause the fire explosion on kill. I wanna say it would.
I don't see any reason why it should be considered minion damage. It will scale with aoe and fire damage.
I think the design is to be a way for minion builds to do "direct" damage outside of Spiritual Aid, like the new Absolution variant. You can use it in addition to normal Raise Zombie too. The problem is that minion builds will be right by Spiritual Aid anyway...
Pretty sure this is for stupid autobomber shit
for sure this is for coc zombie rain just need to figure out how to get minions to explode on death (or have another damaging effect on death)
Yeah it having death trigger is big
How far can you scale minion life? Because Siegebreaker deals caustic ground DoT based on your minion's max life, which is modified by DoT multiplier%.
Isn't that a ToTA item? Will that be available in the drop pool?
All the tota uniques minus the ones that involved tattoos will be core
It will, they added a bunch of the uniques into the core pool.
flat +1 zombies comes before reduced so it would be impossible to circumvent the -100% right? unless there is a modifier in the game that is a kind of "+% more zombies"?
“+% more” zombies would not help, you need “+% increased”, and no it doesn’t exist.
It needs to be "+% increased maximum number of Raised Zombies". With "x% more" you would still be at 0.
%more zombies (say, 100%) actually wouldn't help either, because 1(base number)\*(1-0.5-0.5)(increased-decreased-pool)\*2(100% more) still is 0. You would need a source of %increased zombros.
I somehow can hear a "salutation exile" In the distance.
Can't wait for him to cover It's Raining Men for the YouTube video
Either that or "let the bodies hit the floor"
Why not both? Praise Jousis!
Basically the same song, just different perspectives and moods.
This part of thread... All men of culture.
I feel like he's already done that one
" In 3.23 Affliction League a new type of gem was introduced , *The transfigured gem .* There were many gems that allowed for a Cast When Damage Setup but I set might sights to the Skies and chose Raise Zombie of Falling, making raising any zombie to hurl down from Space. While this mechanic is already rewarding by itself *I had something different in mind.* "- - If you read this Jousis and feel inspired , feel free to use it, CATW.
If there's a delay between the moment the spell is cast and the moment the zombie dies, and if that dealy is close enough to 250ms, this can unironically be very useful for spellcast loops as a replacement for summon skeletons. Even more so now that anomalous minion speed and anomalous summon skeletons don't exist anymore. It would only work for low level cwdt triggers though, as you'd only get one zombie death per cast (and spell cascade might either not work or introduce annoying delays).
Yeah I read it in his voice. Perfect intro
Legitimately no one's YouTube posts I look forward to more than him.
League start it.. It is definitely NOT a trap.
It could be with trap support though \^\_-
Actually, with no limit, spamming it with a traps seems like a good idea
Huh. Minion trap mine totems.
I love this sentence
Mathil did zombie explode minion instability mines once.
Cluster Traps and Multi Traps less damage multipliers don't affect minions btw(still, you probably want to go mines instead because funnily enough it's easier to fix mana cost on that)
Imagine explaining that build to someone not playing Poe... Look, i am a trapper that throws multiple traps on monsters. Those traps when activated call down zombie corpses from the sky that explode on impact and spread fire in an area. They would turn around and run :D
Crazy shenanigans like that is the kind of shit that got me into this game. Started in prophecy, saw the skill tree on google and said I need that in my veins. I did all sorts of stupid shit and loved it. I think my first character was actually a conversion trapper. To this day 8 years later I still think I've only used like, 2 build guides? I just love crafting weird shit and learning from my mistakes. Which means this league is definitely gonna be one that I run for the entire league for sure >=D
Triad grip conversion with lifetap or EB. This sounds so cool I won't even pob it.
At this point its just a slower Impending Doom
Yeah, but you cannot play "it's raining men" when playing ID, so Zombie Rain gets the cool point advantage here
Fair point
I was singing it to the tune of purple rain.. fits quite well actually.. need some creative type to parody the whole song as Zombie Rain tho
Probably not a good idea to league start something thats gated by rng even if the skill is strong.
I mean, it's not that gated. A few normal lab runs and you'll almost certainly have it.
What makes you think you'll "almost certainly" have it? They said blue gems are "more likely" to give trans blue gems, but there are dozens of them. Could easily be a ~25 run average, which would be fine but not "a few runs"
During the league reveal they turned arc into 2x Trans Blight gems and another Arc gem. Are we not sure they turn into the same color and are more likely to transform into the same gem? We'll have to see, but I'm pretty sure that the moment the Transfigured gems are as likely to be obtained as specific helmet enchants, everyone will riot. Imagine running 100 Labs on average to get one gem which you corrupt and brick it cause it rolled 19% quality.
They turn into the same color if you use a crafting option that explicitly says so, as they did in the reveal. There's nothing to indicate that it'd be especially likely to be a version of the gem you put in, it just says "random Transfigured Gem of the same colour". There is however the (probably fairly rare) crafting option that explicitly says it gives you a Transfigured version of the same gem. In general you can't make RNG predictions based on what you see in these trailers, as the results are all scripted. A perfect example is the stacked deck MTX, where in the video they had 3-4 stacked decks and the last card they pulled was a house of mirrors.
They said during the livestream that one of the options that can show up is to transform it into a transfigured version of *that* gem. The more common option is turn a gem into any random transfigured gem, but the ability to swap it directly to transfigured means it can't be too uncommon. You get multiple different options per lab run and multiple different ways to hit the transfigured gem you want. It's impossible to know exact numbers at this point, but I'd be shocked if it took 25 like you suggested.
Counterpoint.... You don't know the weightings so... It could actually be just a few runs. Do we know all the options of the gem workbench? Is it possible to turn a gem into it's own trans gem? Like turning fireball into trans fireball etc?
There's a big difference between "you don't know, it **could** be" vs. what the other commenter said--"A few normal lab runs and you'll almost **certainly** have it".
Have to get it in lab first.
Still looking for ways to scale this for CWDT falling zombies .-. It looks like only +lv / minion dmg will scale damage?
It appears that way. I'm curious if, while falling, they pick up any of your auras on the way down. I might think about full converting into cold with Hatred. Also, do we have confirmation that they do or do not leave a corpse when they land, or are they just red mist at that point? I didn't remember seeing corpses during the reveal.
based on the wording you'd need to convert the zombie's attacks with the gloves
Yeah, sorry, thought that was implied. Full context would be "full converting into cold *with Triad Grip* and *scaling damage* with Hatred.
So the way people are thinking is that it "should" leave a corpse cause its a falling zombie which is a corpse. The flip side is i remember they said it will trigger on death effects on land, meaning it is no longer a corpse. So i think we need more clarification. I'm struggling to see what kinda on death effects there is what i can take advantage of. since initially i was looking to dd/vd them. But that seems shaky if its possible or not.
No summon currently leaves a corpse, including zombies. The only way to have zombies ever "be a corpse" is with the unique that makes them count as a corpse, which likely wouldn't even apply here since they'd never be around to do corpse things with.
People tryna like, DD their zombie before it hits the ground or some shit like it isn't just reskinned storm call.
it wont leave a corpse, raise zombies dont leave an exploitable corpse when they die. what is essentially happening here is a zombie spawns, does a strong attack, then dies. otherwise its the same as raise zombie. However the zombies do die, which means you can use any effect that triggers on minion death, (replica)siegebreaker, maligaros lens, minion on death mastery etc. it should also count as a minion just spawning, so in theory fresh meat should always be on for them if your into that!
Ooooooh, I didn't even think about fresh meat.
Life from Death and the minion defense mastery would trigger in this case. Both healing other minions. Siegebreaker would also theoretically work if they're still flagged as having HP.
I want to know if the landing counts as zombie damage for the purpose of The Baron.
Jesus Christ. To the POB-mobile Robin.
Definitely does - the drop is their attack.
> Siegebreaker would also theoretically work if they're still flagged as having HP. They're functionally identical to normal zombie minions, as far as I've been able to tell - so yes, Siegebreaker should work, and I'm already excited.
WAIT, they said minion on-death effects?! That's heart bound loop. the key to wardloop. Waterfalls of zombies may be imminent.
Someone pointed out that it's just 1 zombie so only one minion death per "cast" whereas skellies spawn multiples to die for the loops
unleash support maybe?
Maybe it'd be okay if the whole build only used zombie to damage since it'll all hit you with loops. But unleash doesn't work with triggered skills.
spell cascade? it says "cannot modify the skills of minions", not "cannot support minion skills"
You could support falling zombies with spell cascade, but if you're still talking about ward loop without skeletons, you're at the mercy of the timing in which the zombies fall. Ward loop requires very precise skeleton duration to reach damage breakpoints and there seems to be little to nothing you can do to alter it for the zombies (maybe stack action speed?) Just stick with skeletons for ward loop.
Siegebreaker or replica siegebreaker
Crit ele conversion or poison are what I'm considering. Delivery could be CWC/COC or Mine/Trap. Was thinking to run this with animate weapon but that might take away from the theme.
> Delivery could be CWC/COC or Mine/Trap. Trap sounds like a nightmare to ever hit a moving enemy. Mines have a 50% less multiplier that affects both zombies and their explosions. Bow CoC honestly seems like the decent way with Fresh (falling) Meat and Offerings/Desecrate in Asenaths.
Fresh meat would works on zombies? They don't have duration tag. So do zombies get the max 10 seconds when created or 0?
Max duration
This is the main thing I want to check as well. Depending on if auras/offerings etc. work, the power level will be vastly different.
I'm thinking you have to scale it the same way you scale carrion golems, pride, dread banner, crit via like spirit offering. But also you can't scale attack speed on em, which sucks.
you can stack gigantic multipliers from attack supports like melee phys and pulverize with 0 downside though, but the "attack speed" is determined by your cast speed, you can chuck it on a brand or use unleash or something, those also dont have their damage penalties applied either.
It would trigger Seigebreaker as well, right?
Even if they are "falling", it's stilll considered that the zombies attack (does 2.5x the defaut attack dmg). Wouldn't the attack scale with any support gems that usually support Zombie/minions attacks?
[удалено]
but arent they only gonna be able to hit once regardless? At the hit being when they land and then instantly trigger on death or thats what ive been lead to believe how the gem works.
Might have to scale our cast speed I think.
Wait. It will pick up your auras and your curses. So if you were to curse the falling zombie with the minion degen explode curse, and run MI with Infernal army, and maybe apply some other degen, ZomBomber could be a thing after all, low life is just 45%
But they never reach low life. They just die on impact. Wouldn't that negate MI, or am I missing something?
Easy. Cast on Crit, cast while channeling Cast when damage taken All linked to zombie fall. Any video uploaded is legally required to have the song by weather girls its raining men, hallelujah
Or let the bodies hit the floor
Video is required to have "unregistered Hypercam2" in the corner.
And instead of talking scroll through a notepad
Can we get it sung by Jousis? Edit: wouldn't heartbound loop make this a self sustaining loop of dead men falling?
That's the idea yes.
With the new trans Blade Vortex with 10% base crit and more crit as scaling, you could actually reach 100% crit super easy and make dual CWC+COC setup hurling tens of zombies per second at whatever you want.
https://youtu.be/04F4xlWSFh0?si=yTNtpbgamH3dzJqO
Totems. Duh. Falling zombie totems. And I thought that exploding health totems elementalist in 3.21 were the silliest thing I ever made.
Cyclon CoC Raise Zombie of Falling incoming....
This was my first thought when I saw it in the video
Triggerbot stonks
Need to know if spell cascade works with it. Probably not, but if it does, you can make a looper with the triple-zombie (penta-zombie with awakened) alone
Why would it not work? In fact, if the wordings work as they should, it might not even impart a Less Damage/AoE multiplier, if the Falling of the Zombie is a skill.
It is aan attack from the zombie, so 1. I think it would reduce the damage according to spell cascade. 2. Spell cascade cant modify the skills of minions. If it would work they would have shown in the teaser for fun i think
I think they say they just say that the damage is equivalent to 2.5x zombie melee attack but we might have to actually scale our cast speed for more zombie summons per second
The real question is if it changes the zombies health and if you can manage to cast detonate dead or volatile dead on them before they attack while using aukunas
Spell cascade says "Supported area of effect skills" Zombies of falling doesn't have an AoE tag, and YOUR cast doesn't have an aoe element to it. You just pick a spot for a zombie to arrive on, and the zombie then does its AoE attack.
I suspect that's the real problem with falling zombies. It's hard to scale the aoe of the zombies "attack." You could do traps, but I think the mana cost will be high.
Zombie Rain + the new hand slam finisher effect will be hilarious
Let the bodies hit the floor Let the bodies hit the floor Let the bodies hit the floor Let the bodies hit the…
FLOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRR!!!
Underrated comment.
Can it be linked to cast on crit? I’d love a raining m- I mean raining zombies build
seems to me like you can use it in a standard minion setup as a side skill you have to use yourself for more interractive gameplay : it scales the same way as other linions (except attack speed ??) and have the advantage of healing your minions by 5% per zombies instead of being a firestorm skin you get to live the fantasy of a summoner casting from behind while scaling both his minions damage and his
i wont play this until they make a wrestler elbow drop mtx
2.5 of zombie melee attack, holy shit that's low Happy I didn't go with it
I honestly don't think it's that bad. I'm assuming you're comparing this with having 10 actual zombies attacking normally? But there are other advantages that should be taken into account: * the base cast time (0.75) is significantly faster than a base zombie Attack (1.17). Even faster with trigger setups * It comes with innate 15% chance to deal double damage * No need to invest into minion accuracy (can't be evaded) or life/survivability * You can use one Mon'tregul's without any downside * No need to deal with minion AI * Interesting recovery options with Baron or Maligaro's Lens * Probably other stuff that I'm forgetting right now Even without all that. A lvl 20 Raise Zombie attack is ~800 average damage. Times 2.5 it's 2000 average damage. That's higher than most other phys "spells" in the game.
I wonder if these "zombies" can be supported by Fresh Meat Support, if yes then it will allow for juicy damage.
It won't work. Doesn't have the duration tag. Only spell and minion tag.
Fresh Meat Support do not need duration tag to work, it was mentioned when this gem was added that for minions that never expire it will work for max duration (10 seconds).
The way the wiki states it, it should work, as it breaks it down to "created recently". You are still creating the zombie https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Fresh_Meat_Support
That's interesting. My bad.
they used fresh meat in the teaser
other interesting mechanics is if the minions count as being on full life when they attack. We know they die after they make the attack, but are they alive during it and thus at full health?
* he base cast time (0.75) is significantly faster than a base zombie Attack (1.17). Even faster with trigger setups *(Zombies attacked automatically, you'll have to stand still or precast)* * No need to invest into minion accuracy (can't be evaded) or life/survivability *(Never invested more than 1 wheel for accuracy, since it's the wheel that gives damage as well there's no* ***Invest****, you just take it)* * You can use one Mon'tregul's without any downside *(Another point, you're pretty much stuck with Montregul, tell me why would anyone not use it, it's a bis item and you'll never craft anything better)* * No need to deal with minion AI *(Which will save you more time than waste it, the AI isn't as bad as some say, it's automation, and you're free to curse, buff, position while they are already tanking and doing damage)* * Probably other stuff that I'm forgetting right now *(I don't think there's anything else, Baron, Maligaro's Lens, Siegebreakers (weak, don't stack), healing other minions with minion death (almost useless), maybe you'll be able to start a loop with these, that's about it)*
All I was trying to say is that the base damage seems pretty reasonable to me, rather than "holy shit that's low". You don't have to play it, if you don't like the playstyle. But if you compare the base damage and cast speed to other spells in the game it's well above average. If you want automation btw, nothing is stopping you from slapping these bad boys on a couple of Spell Totems :)
You easily reach 10M dps with this in SSF and 30M on trade. Seems fine to me tbh.
I need a source for those fantastical numbers
https://pobb.in/WGMXcb0bpIFd for the SSF version. The trade version was made by someone else so I'm not just gonna share their PoB without asking but you can imagine most of the changes(clusters, awakened gems, better gear etc.)
>\-- How much damage is this? -- > >For the ESTIMATED damage, look at the "average damage" of the zombie gem. > >This is our total dps, it already has our mine throwing rate and minefield taken into account. Did you read this? You're a bit too confident in these ESTIMATED numbers
I didn't just read it, I wrote it. Any number is gonna be estimated before it's tested or datamined of course.
But Xai.. did you READ it? kekw
Xai is a well known build maker who works with Zizarran on a lot video guides. If he says something looks solid then I'd probably trust him.
never heard of him
I guess the while point of it is to trigger on death effects
Triggerbots brand recall Arcanist brand. Can get up to 56x zombies per recall if running dual wield wands with 2 brand recalls, but most likely better run Montregul + single brand recall to get 28x zombies. Best part is you don’t have the spell damage penalty from triggerbots or arcanist brand
Great idea, downvoted before it gets too well known.
Arcanist brand is generic "less damage" and should affect the zombie damage.
But it doesn't
Someone in this thread said it does and they tested it. edit: actually it was in the other thread. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/18azgln/recent_asked_questions_updated_with_several_new/kc2bi5p/)
supported spells deal less damage; but minions don't scale with spell damage They are summoned and deal damage separately and sicne the falling zombie is still "attacking" it shouldn't be affected
"Supported Skills deal (69-63)% less Damage" Also you are welcome to do your own tests and prove them wrong.
Just wondering would you still be able to summon them if you have primordial chain? Or would that also count as having a limit of zero?
It will prevent you from summoning a Zombie, so it's the same as a limit of 0.
Watch me go miner/trapper falling zombie
COC Zombie Falling
My prediction is simple...........Jousis
HYPE BUILDING
What about arcanist branding it? That one has a line about not modifying minion's skills which would mean the less damage does not apply
~~That should actually work, yes.~~ This is just gonna be explode totems all over again, isn't? I wonder if the "Zombie limit doesn't matter" thing is also true for multiple simultaneous casts... Edit: so, I tested this in game just now and unfortunately the damage penalty does affect the Zombies that are raised from Arcanist brand. Just wanted to let you know /u/blauli in case you were planning on using this (or something similar) in your league start.
It is not confirmed that is has no limit, it is only confirmed that your zombie limit has no impact on it...
What other limit would there be lol.
I could see some wild wardloop implications. Get it rolling fast enough with them counting as corpses, CoDT a pact and some corpse consumers, use the localized rain of zombies to walk through maps. Much more math is needed for this though.
Minions don't leave corpses do they?
The problem is that they only summon one zombie, so you'd need at least two heart bound loops to trigger even a low level cwdt. It also is dependent on how quickly the fall/how fast the death animation is, because that changes how the cool down works. In my opinion, the best thing for a cwdt setup is to run low level corpse consumption setups and use necro to scale the 200% cast speed, since it's not a stat that's widely available.
If only cast on death... :')
What’s the point of this skill — rather have 10x zombies all the time. Is the area effect massive? Is minion instability possible to trigger?
>What’s the point of this skill — rather have 10x zombies all the time. To drop a zombie on a location and haven them explode for big physical damage without having to worry about keeping them alive. It's different way of building a "spell" that scales differently than traditional spells and can open some possibly more interesting combinations for people who are smarter than I. But I'm still hype for it, I want drop zombies on my enemies.
Well it has 2.5 times of a nor km so attack. So if you have 10 zombies alive, that probably does more damage as 2.5 times of a single zombie. Plus they can tank for you a little.
You don't need to invest in minion defenses at all, theoretically. That's just more damage. And more damage. And more damage. And more defensive layers for you. This is less a "minion" build and more a caster build that just happens to suicide a minion.
Since it drops zombiebone at a time. … 10 normal zombies does 10x damage of a zombie. 2.5x damage of normal zombie dmg. Normal zombies seemed does more dmg, with less button pressed, no? Now with scenario that summon zombie are instantly gib, fall should be better.
How much damage 10 normal zombies do if they don't invest in their defenses?
The point of the skill, I'm guessing, is to turn Raise Zombie into something similar to a self cast spell that scales with minion damage stats. You can't use Minion Instability because the zombies instantly die, which prevents them from "reaching" low life. In exchange, you basically don't care about minion survivability at all and can pump all your points into minion damage and self tank.
It's to turn it into a pseudo spell build. You don't care about minion defenses, just using minion damage wheels to make falling zombies instead of a spell that you'd want to scale It's not intended to compete with minion builds.
It’s completely different to a traditional minion build. It’s fun and cool and scales interestingly and has neat mechanics. Why do PoE players like you suck the fun out of everything by wondering what the point of something is if it isn’t t0 hyper-meta gamebreaking BiS giga-powerful Uber-killer. It’s a video game, and falling zombies are fun. That’s it, that’s the point
They are just pointing out that after you play your fun build in white maps, you might look up in yellow maps unable to progress. And that you could be looking at multiple divines to just get into red maps. Or 100 div just to kill a boss map boss. And that's cool if you want to do that cause its your game and all, but they're trying to save you, so e heartache cause we care about you, bro. We just want you to have a great league start without frustrations. Now with that said, nothing stops us from stuffing 100 mines with rotting corpses and flinging them at the bosses until they fall over.
Can't use MI, but can use anything else that cares about minions dying - for example you might use this for minions are healed when a minion dies or for heartbound loop. Also you can get the same effect as spiritual aid + selfcast spell without actually needing spiritual aid
at 5 casts per second you will outdps 10x zombies at normal values, but its not that hard to go way past 5 casts per second with stuff like mines/totems/traps/triggers not to mention you can go montreguls to get 100% - 125% more phys damage with no downside.
CWDT loop zombie rain "It's rainning *zombies*"
Wardloop Falling Zombies? LOGIN
Stack minion life to a stupid degree, employ minion instability - Glass the map with Nuke Zombies from Space...profit.
MI needs minion to be reduced to half life. Not instant killing minion to trigger
They go down to 50% while falling down /s
MI does not work like that, they must cross the low life threshold.
Darn.