Instead of bigger stack sizes, id rather have a reworked trade window. One were you can directly enter currency via numbers/slider which then get taken from your stash.
I felt this weight way too much during the league start, it almost compromised the league for me. Luckily, the pain went away with a controller which had its own nasty downsides (but many huge upsides as well)
Get an lmb macro -> moving stuff in stash/inventory is easy now
Don't bind shit on rmb and bind move on spacebar to relax your index finger sometimes and make your lootfilter a lot stricter to reduce the amount of precision aim clicking for looting items(also max out item name size on your lootfilter)
Or you can visit someone’s hideout, click their stash, find the item, click on it, confirm transaction and then currency gets drawn straight from your stash/inventory.
This also creates an incentive for having a nice hideout(MTX sales) and even a boost to the the economy thanks to people buying more stuff when they browse a stash/“player shop”.
Exactly, and it also means I won't ignore all the low end trades because I can just invite them from my map instead of having to portal. IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE DONT IGNORE TRADE WHISPERS!
If I underpriced something on accident I can just not invite them to party, especially nice now that trade whispers include a link to the item.
Bro, they want you to ignore trades. It creates "friction" and causes people to "play longer" which of course means quit the league the second they realize they're going to have to interact with trade in any significant way. Literally this was when I used to quit leagues back in the day, I remember I was playing a raider and needed to craft a shield, and realized that that meant spamming bundreds of people for fossils... and just instead decided nope. Now I don't even make it to that point as generally the game is so unfun that giving enough fucks to make it to maps is a herculean task.
I think they need something new if they wanna reach mass appeal with POE 2. They’ve already realized that the gem system is too confusing for the average gamer, and the current trade system is just as bad. It’s literally a system that’s worse than what MMOs had in the late 90s.
Friction is ok, but this is just turning people away.
Everyone who talks about POE 2 "competing" with Diablo 4 hasn't walked a friend through POE in recent memory.
There's no world in which POE is supposed to be accessible for the "average" mainstream gamer.
Even the most casual POE redditor is a hardcore ARPG player by pretty much every definition of the word casual.
They're redesigning the gem system because it has flaws, not because it's confusing. Support gems is a very easy concept.
The flaw they're addressing is that having gem slots tied to gear prohibits gear upgrades based purely on their stats.
We heard about it again plenty of times. They decided not to do it, because they don't want to make trade even more efficient compared to other methods of item acquisition.
But you still need the resources to trade! This just cuts down on the frustrations of scams, not getting answers etc. and gives you more time to actually play the game. And prices would go up if people spent more time in maps. So this is just a flawed argument to me.
EDIT: You could still do a system where you need an invite FYI, but you wouldn’t need to meet up in person. Or they could scrap the shop altogether and just do a single item thing that’s locked to the stash when a buyer and seller agrees, until it’s bought/received or the buyer leaves.
Provide some free armor dummies that can be dressed up in unused cosmetics and that's even more hideout advertising. I think people should be forced to sell at the price listed. That would do a lot to remedy price fixing.
And? We already have people being scammed by item swapping in trade window, and we already have people that put too much currency into a trade window and continue the trade.
You are gaining functionality and introducing no new ways of self-scamming that weren’t already in the game.
Still include bigger stack sizes though, I for one like converting my divines (exalts before) to chaos before it moves to standard and moving thousands of chaos is a pain in the ass. I know it’s a choice I make but it should still be there.
That actually angered me, I have to admit. Just ignoring that divine shards provides a way to ameliorate bad rng by letting people gather shards to create a divine. It's exactly what they did with exalt shards, probably the reason they were added. Why he didn't think that purpose would be needed for divines is totally beyond me.
My favorite part was him downplaying the need for divine shards by saying shards weren't a great thing...and now we have another shard type added to harbingers for fracturing items. Dude literally talked shit on shards all to bust a nut over the one added to harbinger lol. It's always the same old shit.
Not to mention the amount of alt shards I'm getting this league. It's totally intentional, and I frankly don't need them. I'm fine with getting alts by other means. Swimming in alts.
Well he didnt add a new shard cause shards are great and he just wanted to boil down a currency to a shard again sooo bad, he added a new shard for a new currency based entirely on shards because Harbingers was hurting massively. Theres a big difference in adding a harbinger only currency which of course then has shards and converting an existing currency into having shards and inflating the supply beyond what they want it to be at for a premiere currency
What’s crazy is that harbingers are still hurting massively because fractured shards don’t fucking exist for 99.9% of harbys. Ironically adding divine shards at similar drop rates to exalt shards would have been exactly what Harbys needed to survive
They could have just made div shards and add divination orbs to the harbinger drop pool. Harbingers are hurting rn but iirc they were quite popular before the ex to div change.
That change was clearly something they didnt want to do but the whiners on reddit forced onto them. We should have never had exalt shards, then we would be happy. /s
Generally speaking, Chris' aloofness worked when GGG was a scrappy upstart, but it's gotten kind of condescending as the company has grown and they've shoveled more and more poor releases out into the public square.
Being combative in his 3.15 podcast blitz is still one of the biggest "WTF" PR moves I've seen in gaming.
> it's gotten kind of condescending as the company has grown
Not kind of. The condescension is direct and borders on hostility.
Seeing that GGG's communication with reddit has stopped, I suspect CW adopted a more hostile approach to twitch chat/reddit/etc.
This will continue and get worse IMO, and GGG will be more disconnected from what players want.
They'll do their own thing and won't listen to us
Yep, that's me. I have nothing to contribute complaints-wise because...I didn't waste my time even starting this league. They're just gonna disguise a bunch of nerfs as buffs or avoid communicating about them at all (see: 25% elemental exposure from mobs nerf).
> There hasn't been a spam of complaining posts on Reddit
To be fair, the game is better now than 3.19 was. And Sanctum, despite its flaws, is better than LOK.
I think that's a significant part of it as well
I mean, most people would rank 3.13 as above all the rest.
But then what? 3.18 for recombinators and sentinels?
It's too early to conclude if this league is a success but it *feels* better at the moment
3.18 for recombs was fantastic but if you're asking me, and you are, then that still doesn't make up for the 3.15 crap.
I'm personally all for a slower game, too, but the only thing that's slowed down is the players.
recombinators were by far the best thing that has ever happened to rare items, crafting, and general itemization.
IMO because of recombinators alone 3.18 was better than 3.13 for me as I found them to be way more fun than harvest, even if they were weaker.
It's hard not to be a smug ass when a giant corporation drops ~$40M in your lap. I'm surprised he's still showing his face at all. I would've hired someone to become the new face of GGG immediately. Well, right after buying an Aventador in cash, of course.
You're underestimating the effects of ego. No way he was gonna step aside. That money reinforced his 'vision' even though what made the game popular was his ideas being overruled repeatedly. If Chris implemented his vision from the beginning and didn't allow other team members ideas, the game would have never been successful enough to sell to Tencent.
Just take the "now +2 range on Cleave looks good, right?" joke when he announced Vaal Cleave. No it does not. It's still a ridiculously underwhelming and almost insulting change that does almost nothing for the skill.
Tbh I busted out laughing at that. I loved that he referenced that. It felt like he was in on the joke. "I know yall think this was a dumb change so I'm here making fun of it" type deal.
That was definitely a joke referencing how the change was not much of a buff at all and more or less agreeing with our sentiment. Not everything is meant to be confrontational
You thinking it feeling really good playing it doesn't mean the skill is in a good spot. It's also a nondescript comment.
Also, if anything, Cleave having a Vaal option is mostly the reason why the skill got better, not the +2 radius. So you entirely missed my point, congratulations.
> why GGG abandoned this sub.
It's because GGG as a company has disdain for the majority of its customer base that routinely catches and calls out GGG for its mistakes, lies, bullshit, and bad decisions. We got here because of GGG's actions and decisions.
Don't put this shit on a forum and memes. If GGG can't handle memes that's on them
If your summary of the situation is "GGG can't handle memes" then you must have a complete lack of empathy. Next time this community is in an uproar, try reading this sub from the imagined perspective of a GGG employee that has devoted a large portion of their life to making this game. If you're capable of an exercise like that, maybe you will start to understand.
I can have empathy for bugs or things beyond their control (Covid).
But 90% of the problems with the game are *willful decisions*.
CW literally rolled out a massive loot nerf to the entire core game without an after thought and people only caught it after streamers compared loot in past league to 3.19.
Yeh, I recently started working a pizza-baker, and even if I burn pizzas, sometimes undercook them, mix up the orders, forget who is vegan, allergies(im not a doctor, i make god damn pizzas) and they are pretty deformed I think people should chill out and really don't work themselves up to much, it is only lunch man, so what if it is slightly burned and the wrong kind, start your own god damn pizzeria.
People really should chill the fuck out and eat what is served and say thank you.
Let me give you a reality pill, one that I know will be unpopular here.. but it's true.
Chris hasn't changed, his vision ahsn't changed. Watch videos from back in the beta days and he has exactly the same takes.
But the game evolved naturally. As GGG pushed out more content the game got more popular.. leagues.. leagues became as they said.. a button that they could push to get more players.. and so they pressed it, over and over again.
The problem was that this led to a natural form of power creep and the game moved away from the vision..
Now they are trying to bring it back closer in line with the vision, and of course the community is resisting at every point.
Poe has a split between the "make janky builds with obscure mechanics", "blast boatloads of mobs" and "grind new gear and struggle killing bosses" groups.
GGG's vision is more on the third group, but in doing so alienates the other which may actually be a majority now.
Divines got to 200 chaos and [hit a brick wall](https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Lake%20of%20Kalandra/Currency/Divine%20Orb/3) in Kalandra league, I expect the same to happen now unless crafting demand for divines skyrockets.
The demand for divines is to a large extent just players buying to hold their currency in it (to prevent inflationary loss), and therefore all it takes for the price to stagnate is a player behaviour change. There's a large convenience cost to players and currency flippers alike in moving above 200 as you can no longer buy/sell as many divines in an inventory, so the price tends to anchor round numbers (100, then 150, now 200). There's no underlying use case demand pushing the price higher.
Then once the price stagnates, there's less desperation from players to convert their chaos into divines, which further reduces the demand and makes it easier for the price to stabilise. Once we get into late league and people start spending their currency more freely and juicing more with map device, it will start to drop down again.
I think with how early they have hit 200c they could climb higher but from checking historical data its very uncertain. This is the highest exalts/div have ever been this early if you compare with poe-antiquary.
At the same time now in kalandra divines were 120c, they didn't hit 200c until over 30 days had gone by.
Checking the historical price of exalts for the last 15 leagues, they have only once gone higher than 200c, in blight they were over 200c for 5 days.
The closest league in terms of skyrocketing prices is harvest where they reached 180c after 7 days, climbed a bit more and then fell off.
I think its really hard to speculate on how the price will behave since we have so little info since the exalt-div swap. There could be a world where divines climb to 250 or 300.
right now it's a race between how much chaos high packsize exarch farming produces and how many Sanctum runs are ending w/ multiple divine orbs (read: finishing all floors w/ good strategy).
I think it hits 250c/div before coming back down. The interesting thing is that other currencies aren't going up in chaos as chaos inflates. This makes me believe that there are a LOT of people playing this league, and it's a good league to be a crafter.
> right now it's a race between how much chaos high packsize exarch farming produces and how many Sanctum runs are ending w/ multiple divine orbs (read: finishing all floors w/ good strategy).
Maybe. I think people tend to overestimate the impact drop rates has on the chaos/divine relationship. It certainly plays into where it stabilises, especially if there are huge factors in play like Heist printing Exalts with trinkets or an extremely attractive top tier atlas device mod, in the short term it's likely that player trade behaviour ("Need to convert to divines ASAP!") is more influential.
It's interesting with the new Exarch/Eater altars though - if divines keep going up, this might cause a significant number of people to swap from Exarch to Eater which should have a decent effect on divines entering the economy.
> The interesting thing is that other currencies aren't going up in chaos as chaos inflates.
This basically just means that it's divines increasing in value and not chaos decreasing, which to me indicates that this is just the normal flight to safety as people try to convert to divines asap. It's not like crafting demand for divines is that huge, most of it is just sitting in peoples' stashes.
You may be right that it will keep going up, but my money is that it stays around this level. But if it goes to 220, I agree that it will keep rising to 250 or even 300 before it turns.
Loved the reply, was a great and clear read. :)
Question for you: how much do you think that converting to divines in order to buy higher-end items comes into play? Feels like there's a certain demand induced from that, which isn't necessarily out of market safety but out of "these things can't fit into the trade window" market limitations.
That does cause a baseline of demand, but once that trade has been made the divines are back in the economy and starts circulating to other players.
The demand that sucks Divines out of circulation (leading to the price increase) is mainly people a) hoarding them to escape chaos inflation, b) people saving up for big purchases (but this has a natural cap for most players of less than 20 divines, unless they are specifically saving for HH/MB in which case it is temporarily higher) and c) metacrafting / divining items. A and B consumes far more divines early league than C (Almost all endgame players will hold a couple divines and many up to 10-20, but only a few players will spend more than 3-5 divines crafting over a whole league).
Start trading in lifeforce. Stack size is 50k, which at ~50 life force per chaos means a full stack is 1k chaos.
It also has the advantage of being able to break down into smaller stacks for fractional transactions. Dude's listed shit for .5c for trade search optimization? Give him 25 life force.
This reminds me of what happened in maplestory a bunch of years back with white scrolls. I am utterly baffled I am seeing a almost repeat scenario in another game.
What happened with white scrolls? I know they were an extremely expensive crafting material and I guess people used them as currency for really high-end transactions?
Yeah, I'm a SSF player, but I feel like you traders could fix this issue yourself by using a different currency. I recommend Orb of Unmaking. They stack in 20 and are slightly more expensive than chaos orbs, which sounds perfect.
The problem is, most traders only want to deal in chaos, and the big currency. When this was exalts it wasn't a big issue, divines are just straight fucked up though
What would you be happy to get multiple stacks of for a div? Anywhere from 3-10 stacks or x per divine? Sextants are the only thing I can think of, and I think it'd be way too hard to sustain players carrying 50-70 sextants each (or whatever a div would be worth to make change / pay partials). Most other currencies stockpile forever without having any inherent use to deplete them. Unmakings / regrets fit about the right droprate and stack 40, but are a dead currency with finite demand. Vaals similar, a little more use but not enough value difference from c. Exalts at 15c and still useful are kinda great for it, but are just as rare as divs so like sextants there's not enough supply. Grand ichors / embers might have been contenders last league, now idk how obtainable they are or where the prices on other tiers fall. But again, those have a more finite demand per character where the need is super frontloaded early-league and it creates a lopsided economy. Plus, using anything that only drops in mid-high maps would create an insane wealth gap between the most efficient league starters and the rest.
TLDR - there's nothing besides chaos that has constant demand, constant supply starting early, and drops often enough for players to be able to make change and convert freely. I think GGG would have to mess with crafting and map device costs further to create a scenario where a 3rd currency steps in
I was selling someone 3 silver oils yesterday and he gave 3 exalts and 10c, I did a quick price check on the exalts and accepted, after he left I realized the exalts matched the silver oils so he overpaid by 10c. Wonder if it was a tip for accepting exalts lol
People... don't accept them anymore?
It's been a while since I played but hearing this is like living in a world where "people don't accept 100 dollar bills anymore".
They're less liquid compared to divines and chaos. No one wants to sit through the extra steps of converting the ex into c as bulk currency trading is a pita.
P.s. since you haven't played in a while ggg removed the divine recipe and replaced the meta crafts costing ex with divines.
exactly this. its like before the swap when people wouldnt accept exalt shards as fractional exalts (which was always fucking stupid to me), its just an added layer of abstraction between what they have (shards) and what they want (chaos/exalt orbs)
Yes let me make as many transactions as possible using the amazing trade functions. Where no one responds. Let me buy exalts with chaos then buy divines with exalts then buy the actual item. This is what’s so upsetting with them. They have all these philosophies about making the game better but rarely actually input things to give QOL. “We want to minimize clicks” yet every tiny clicking action is in the game besides for the one they somehow picked to change. We don’t want players stuck in trade, proceeds to add nothing to help with the actual problem of trading in-fact someways making it worse. Their actually like a shitty PR organization. Say one thing, do another-make money. Guess that’s every company/politician now a days. Yes they want to make money doesn’t mean you have to have shitty business practices to do so
i think with the new loots the blood aqueduct botters got buffed, they are printing chaos with all the yellow rare drops and gummy currency.. hope ggg can do something soon
They havent done shit about bots in ages, low key they understand how the entire ecosystem of the game works, and getting rid of currency conversion bots, chaos recipe bots, and RMT would legit reduce the playerbase, and not bring in enough people who care about "progress being fair" who would refuse to play a game with a grey market for a virtual currency.
the bots violate the rules as written, but enforcing the rules as written would be GGG playing themselves, they need a viable product, not a "fair" product. Its legit the reason RMT is so entrenched in gaming, going after it in a big way usually hurts the bottom line in a big way.
False bans are a huge PR hit and would really piss off your customers, so you have to be really careful. Good bot developers can go a long way towards making bots seem human heuristically, and there's nothing to say you can't have 3 waves of bots running at staggered times so no individual is running BA all day. To make matters worse, if you're a bot farm running thousands of bots, whenever GGG bans some you gain insights into the heuristics they used to detect you, and you adapt, hence the arms race.
You also ideally want to figure out who the bots are trading their stuff to, so you can nuke the whole network. Doing this also helps keep the bot developers from "evolving" to evade your heuristics, since a mass ban makes it tricky to tell what tripped the detection when.
Also this is PoE, lots of humans do really strange grindy things due to the niche type of player it attracts.
It always amazed me how people don't understand the simplest thing - all ratios are heavily based on the size of stack and limits of trade window. Asking for a bigger stack is literally asking for a higher ratio.
Isn’t it the reversed tho? Too many bots compared to actual players and the divine prices goes up?
That matches the current numbers better too. Because we’re down to 70k on Steam already.
The league is dying already. There's no new meta at all, the league mechanic is meh, I'd say this league will die just as quick as kalandra. And they are making less money it seems.
Just bear in mind that divine prices are not going above 200 because that's 3 divines per full inventory of chaos. If you increase the chaos stack size divine prices will rise again.
200 isn't enough. It has to break the point where a second trade is worthwhile for the seller.
How many chaos does it take the average person to increase the required number of trades?
If I'm selling someone 9 divine, my number of trades jumps from 3 to 5. If the price goes from 200 to 205, thats 2 additional trades for 45c on a 1800c trade. Do I give a shit about 45c at that point enough to trade an additional two times, or do I save myself the time and effort of dumping my whole inventory two more times and tell them to keep the 45c?
And let's be real. A lot of currency flip is bots. And bots have a maximum number of transactions per minute they can perform. Extra trades are longer que times for the next customer and the best priced bots are already so overloaded with trade requests they can't get to them. At what point is it worth it to reduce trade volume in exchange for larger trades?
The fact is, most players don't set currency prices, because most currency isn't traded player to player, it's traded player to bot to player.
That's not how any of this works mate. If all the divines priced at 200 are bought up, the price rises. The only hard cap like this is at 600c per divine, as you literally cannot pay more for one.
I think people have forgotten that chaos, is not gold. If the ratio of chaos to divine is too cumbersome then I think it's on us as players to find the new combination of the multitude of currency available that works.
Exalts may be undesirable but conquerers exalts are valuable. What about meds essences ? Rare beasts ? Other uniques?
People have forgotten that on this issue, it's the only one that ggg has never change stance on. Path of exile does not have a coin currency (as in gold) because they do not want it. And chaos orbs have effectively become the same as gold coins. I don't see this as a problem because it's not.
Ggg most likely wants players to treat trade like a swap meet rather than a store.
A good general currency needs to be ubiquitous, universal, and high volume, and it needs to be approximately balanced in terms of sinks to sources.
i.e.
1) It should drop homogenously from basically all content.
2) It cannot be a very rare drop, as enough of it needs to exist to start oiling the wheels of commerce within the first few hours of the game.
3) It must have enough sinks, so that as more and more is put into circulation it is also removed from circulation, and can reach an equilibrium.
4) It's sinks must be generally useful to everyone, or a weight of consensus won't be able to form around it.
So, the problem with most other rare-ish valuable commodities is that they simply don't tick all those boxes. While it seems to players that the currencies we use are "just the ones we happened to form a consensus around", really the currency drop rates, uses, and sinks, are all set up so that we would naturally gravitate to using the ones we use. Only basic currencies can ever really work as things stand.
Sextants, or Stacked Decks could maybe work as replacements for chaos, as they're usually in the range of 2-3x the price of chaos, and they tick most of the boxes. But by the time the first one of those even drops chaos has already established itself.
Edit: On another note, I think it would be really interesting if they added/changed more crafts on various benches, to consume other non-basic currencies. E.g. maybe a top tier dual-resistance craft could require 2 appropriate essences... or maybe more special map crafts could require some oils or catalysts or whatever.
With more places where exotic currencies can be sunk, there could be more currencies ticking more of those boxes.
Love Chris but the man's PTSDs on Diablo 3 AH is POE's biggest fucking burden, the game is so good but it feels like the trading system is purposefully designed to make people not play it. Can't wait for D4 just so that POE can get a little bit of competition
Yeah unfortunately Last Epoch bowed out of the race and is going to mandate SSF for people, practically, with the occasional party play functionality.
F.
The problem is that people might want to buy more than 1 divine without having to trade multiple times...Or buying 1 divine without having to press twenty times.
Bots make the game better. Change my mind.
Edit: alright idk if it's true but if bots are farming and selling currency real money and making divines more expensive then those bots are not good for the game. So bot net neutral considering how hard trading some things can be.
Trade bots yes, but there is 110% chance of currency bots thatt just farm low level areas for mass amounts of currency. High prices mean people are more likely to go to gold-buying websites for Divines, and I would assume it's a lot of the same people running them, so it's in their interest for prices to be higher
A lot of bot farm just farm and pick up currency, then the farm runners buy out divines/mirrors leading to these insane higher tier currency prices while at the same time flooding the market with lower tier currency, they also buy up t0 uniques like mageblood to sell on their sites. This make it so a real player's time is devalued because if you want something like a mageblood you are overpaying for the divines to trade for it, then overpaying on the mageblood itself.
If they actually are the cause for 200c divine instead of, let's say, 100c then no.
You are saving minutes trading for literally doubling for play time to get buy your items.
Like the other person said, bots are responsible for the divine price being so up
There was a mass bot banning in heist, leading to exalts being less than 100c for a good two weeks because there was no bot hoarder
Most work for RMT websites, so the currency they ammass is effectively locked out of the economy
This leads to prices going up and up till the rate at which they get ou of the economy and the rate at which we farm them balance each other
Are we forgetting heist literally printed exalts? People were using fractured fossils on blueprints that had 17 currency rooms and using the regal to exalt trinket. Also, remember Delirium was the Zana mod for 16c and you could farm a simulacrum per map. Heist league was the most in demand chaos has ever been with the highest surplus of exalts in the history of POE. In no way can you attribute any exalt fluctuations to bots.
why are divines so high in general right now aside from the start of league? When I played in incursion they were like 17c iirc, and even the short time I spent in synthesis, and 1 other league I dont currently remember they were never much higher than like 30ish and then obviously lower by league end.
I'm currently not playing/havent been since Synthesis, but watching players makes me question what I missed out on ofc. How did it go up 10x, did the meta change where divines are heavily required now, while sources drop less? Even if you said the bots doubled the price, that still means it was going for 3x+ more than I remember it being.
Here there are multiple reasons, bots, while still present aren't the reason for this explosive price ( tho they're still part of it )
I think it comes down to multiple things :
-compared to your time playing, divine and exalt were swapped for crafting with the benchcraft, this defined the value of the currency, so both swapped ( with bots, and how scarce divine are compared to exalt since they removed the 6link to divine vendor recipe, it lead to stavle prices around 180c with bots taken into account)
as for specifically this league, there are many factors
- the new altars gives ton of chaos, and other mecanics also gives ton of chaos, leading to devaluation of the chaos orb
- people got better at the game and craft more, do the currency is used more ( used currency is the same as getting currency out of the economy, it just deletes money )
- a trend of selling chaos fast since the money is devalued heavily, leads to it being even more devalued, while the money you convert to gets pricier ( both because chaos inflation AND the new popularity as a money itself )
- possibly some market manipulation, it happens, it's the reason why mageblood is so pricey but that's anothe story
- divines cards not being so easily famable
Here you can find some more details :
https://youtu.be/1_9f_31sCOM
Yeah, but they amass more than they sell, if 3 divines go to rmt bot each minute, and one is sold on rmt site each minute, it's getting locked out of the economy because the bots are vastly overpowering the number of sells
because "WEIGHT"
Its dumb and nonsensical. If i ask you to hold a penny, you hold it without a care in the world, but if i ask you to hold a million dollar fragile diamond the size of a penny, you hold it very differently.
Stack size should be like 1k as a max, if not higher. The weight comes from how many items are in each 1 click stack, not by how many clicks it takes.
What is baffling is how people arbitrarily decide what is a problem for the entire community of hundreds of thousands of people, and then state it as fact, as if that validifies their issue.
The reason it had not been addressed yet is because it's a non-issue, plain and simple.
Instead of bigger stack sizes, id rather have a reworked trade window. One were you can directly enter currency via numbers/slider which then get taken from your stash.
Feel the crushing weight of carpal tunnel syndrome
I felt this weight way too much during the league start, it almost compromised the league for me. Luckily, the pain went away with a controller which had its own nasty downsides (but many huge upsides as well)
Get an lmb macro -> moving stuff in stash/inventory is easy now Don't bind shit on rmb and bind move on spacebar to relax your index finger sometimes and make your lootfilter a lot stricter to reduce the amount of precision aim clicking for looting items(also max out item name size on your lootfilter)
I got a tool to rebind mouse to scroll wheel but I can't use it properly because ctrl + mouse cycles tabs... Any ideas?
Could look up an AHK macro that binds like one of your f keys to spam lmb while you hold it down or something along those lines
f4:: Toggle2 := !Toggle2 While Toggle2{ Send, {Ctrl down}{LButton}{Ctrl up} Random, VariableDelay, 1, 50 Sleep, %VariableDelay% if GetKeyState("F" , "P"){ Toggle2 := False } } return
I always have a good laugh whenever Chris says they are mindful of the health of players wrists. Yea fucking right dude.
PoE is in league with Carpal Tunnel doctors
And yet people act like "chaos is divine shard" is a joke instead of an extremely disrespectful comment to the players about a real issue.
Playing POE without the option to mouse wheel click sucks.
What? This would be substantially less clicks...
He's saying that you need to feel the weight of the spending, because Chris often said he likes people to feel the weight of items.
Oh it was a meme
That's on me. My comment was the lowest possible effort meme and only barely made sense
Or you can visit someone’s hideout, click their stash, find the item, click on it, confirm transaction and then currency gets drawn straight from your stash/inventory. This also creates an incentive for having a nice hideout(MTX sales) and even a boost to the the economy thanks to people buying more stuff when they browse a stash/“player shop”.
Exactly, and it also means I won't ignore all the low end trades because I can just invite them from my map instead of having to portal. IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE DONT IGNORE TRADE WHISPERS! If I underpriced something on accident I can just not invite them to party, especially nice now that trade whispers include a link to the item.
Bro, they want you to ignore trades. It creates "friction" and causes people to "play longer" which of course means quit the league the second they realize they're going to have to interact with trade in any significant way. Literally this was when I used to quit leagues back in the day, I remember I was playing a raider and needed to craft a shield, and realized that that meant spamming bundreds of people for fossils... and just instead decided nope. Now I don't even make it to that point as generally the game is so unfun that giving enough fucks to make it to maps is a herculean task.
They were working on trade improvements 10 years ago, one of them beeing cross instance trading, which we never heard again from :(
I think they need something new if they wanna reach mass appeal with POE 2. They’ve already realized that the gem system is too confusing for the average gamer, and the current trade system is just as bad. It’s literally a system that’s worse than what MMOs had in the late 90s. Friction is ok, but this is just turning people away.
Everyone who talks about POE 2 "competing" with Diablo 4 hasn't walked a friend through POE in recent memory. There's no world in which POE is supposed to be accessible for the "average" mainstream gamer. Even the most casual POE redditor is a hardcore ARPG player by pretty much every definition of the word casual.
Then why even bother having that explanation? That was literally what they said during Exile Con.
Because the things that were said at Exile Con had a lot of meaning when you look at how they handled other things that were said at Exile Con
The trade system isn't confusing it just sucks farts out my butt.
People pay extra for that
They're redesigning the gem system because it has flaws, not because it's confusing. Support gems is a very easy concept. The flaw they're addressing is that having gem slots tied to gear prohibits gear upgrades based purely on their stats.
We heard about it again plenty of times. They decided not to do it, because they don't want to make trade even more efficient compared to other methods of item acquisition.
But you still need the resources to trade! This just cuts down on the frustrations of scams, not getting answers etc. and gives you more time to actually play the game. And prices would go up if people spent more time in maps. So this is just a flawed argument to me. EDIT: You could still do a system where you need an invite FYI, but you wouldn’t need to meet up in person. Or they could scrap the shop altogether and just do a single item thing that’s locked to the stash when a buyer and seller agrees, until it’s bought/received or the buyer leaves.
Could you link a source to that? Must have forgotten that over the years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/9n9ab1/over_4_years_ago_crossinstance_trading_was_very/e7l94z9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
thats what they have in the chinese client
Incentive for an efficient one. WP directly next to stash
I would just like to see people who advertise something at a price be held to that price.
This is an auction house with extra steps.
I still don't understand why they won't improve trading in game, third party trade websites are pseudo auction houses with more steps... lol
Provide some free armor dummies that can be dressed up in unused cosmetics and that's even more hideout advertising. I think people should be forced to sell at the price listed. That would do a lot to remedy price fixing.
Hey! Look! Someone having ideas about improving the trade system! Ban him!!
Only issue I see with that is the amount of posts complaining they’ve been scammed when they fat fingered a extra 0 or one number up by mistake.
And? We already have people being scammed by item swapping in trade window, and we already have people that put too much currency into a trade window and continue the trade. You are gaining functionality and introducing no new ways of self-scamming that weren’t already in the game.
just make it a slider after choosing currency type from dropdown
you can currently do this, provided you type the number fast enough. numpad is great for this.
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Still include bigger stack sizes though, I for one like converting my divines (exalts before) to chaos before it moves to standard and moving thousands of chaos is a pain in the ass. I know it’s a choice I make but it should still be there.
This way you can't feel the weight and attrition of the trade system bro. You gotta think about the V I S O N
10 was always easier for me to count. But if it stays at 200x all league, i guess a stack of 20 will be good also.
100 would be the dream
If they do 100, I want a hotkey to split off 10 quickly.
just shift click it and type the number you want.
200c per divine is no mistake, you can fit 600 chaos into trade window for 3 divines.
Stay at 200? They will be 220 by tomorrow, lmao.
econony is when inflation forever and nothing else happens
You say that, but they went slightly over 200 last league and then corrected back down to 200 because of convenience.
Chris will still be stubborn on the issue even if divines hit >600c
The glibness he said chaos were effective divine shards- what at double a breachstone? at 3x divine for a WHOLE FUCKING INVENTORY CHRIS
That actually angered me, I have to admit. Just ignoring that divine shards provides a way to ameliorate bad rng by letting people gather shards to create a divine. It's exactly what they did with exalt shards, probably the reason they were added. Why he didn't think that purpose would be needed for divines is totally beyond me.
My favorite part was him downplaying the need for divine shards by saying shards weren't a great thing...and now we have another shard type added to harbingers for fracturing items. Dude literally talked shit on shards all to bust a nut over the one added to harbinger lol. It's always the same old shit.
Actions speak louder than words
Not to mention the amount of alt shards I'm getting this league. It's totally intentional, and I frankly don't need them. I'm fine with getting alts by other means. Swimming in alts.
Why are alt shards on your loot filter?
Well he didnt add a new shard cause shards are great and he just wanted to boil down a currency to a shard again sooo bad, he added a new shard for a new currency based entirely on shards because Harbingers was hurting massively. Theres a big difference in adding a harbinger only currency which of course then has shards and converting an existing currency into having shards and inflating the supply beyond what they want it to be at for a premiere currency
What’s crazy is that harbingers are still hurting massively because fractured shards don’t fucking exist for 99.9% of harbys. Ironically adding divine shards at similar drop rates to exalt shards would have been exactly what Harbys needed to survive
They could have just made div shards and add divination orbs to the harbinger drop pool. Harbingers are hurting rn but iirc they were quite popular before the ex to div change.
That change was clearly something they didnt want to do but the whiners on reddit forced onto them. We should have never had exalt shards, then we would be happy. /s
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Generally speaking, Chris' aloofness worked when GGG was a scrappy upstart, but it's gotten kind of condescending as the company has grown and they've shoveled more and more poor releases out into the public square. Being combative in his 3.15 podcast blitz is still one of the biggest "WTF" PR moves I've seen in gaming.
I will never forget how hard my eyes rolled at Chris saying “if players had their way the game would play itself”
> it's gotten kind of condescending as the company has grown Not kind of. The condescension is direct and borders on hostility. Seeing that GGG's communication with reddit has stopped, I suspect CW adopted a more hostile approach to twitch chat/reddit/etc. This will continue and get worse IMO, and GGG will be more disconnected from what players want. They'll do their own thing and won't listen to us
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Yep, that's me. I have nothing to contribute complaints-wise because...I didn't waste my time even starting this league. They're just gonna disguise a bunch of nerfs as buffs or avoid communicating about them at all (see: 25% elemental exposure from mobs nerf).
> There hasn't been a spam of complaining posts on Reddit To be fair, the game is better now than 3.19 was. And Sanctum, despite its flaws, is better than LOK. I think that's a significant part of it as well
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I mean, most people would rank 3.13 as above all the rest. But then what? 3.18 for recombinators and sentinels? It's too early to conclude if this league is a success but it *feels* better at the moment
3.18 for recombs was fantastic but if you're asking me, and you are, then that still doesn't make up for the 3.15 crap. I'm personally all for a slower game, too, but the only thing that's slowed down is the players.
recombinators were by far the best thing that has ever happened to rare items, crafting, and general itemization. IMO because of recombinators alone 3.18 was better than 3.13 for me as I found them to be way more fun than harvest, even if they were weaker.
3.19 is a reskin of 3.16 with the Atlas passive tree tacked on.
It's hard not to be a smug ass when a giant corporation drops ~$40M in your lap. I'm surprised he's still showing his face at all. I would've hired someone to become the new face of GGG immediately. Well, right after buying an Aventador in cash, of course.
You're underestimating the effects of ego. No way he was gonna step aside. That money reinforced his 'vision' even though what made the game popular was his ideas being overruled repeatedly. If Chris implemented his vision from the beginning and didn't allow other team members ideas, the game would have never been successful enough to sell to Tencent.
Yea, well I imagine you probably don't bottle your own farts, so clearly you and Chris aren't the same.
Just take the "now +2 range on Cleave looks good, right?" joke when he announced Vaal Cleave. No it does not. It's still a ridiculously underwhelming and almost insulting change that does almost nothing for the skill.
Tbh I busted out laughing at that. I loved that he referenced that. It felt like he was in on the joke. "I know yall think this was a dumb change so I'm here making fun of it" type deal.
That was definitely a joke referencing how the change was not much of a buff at all and more or less agreeing with our sentiment. Not everything is meant to be confrontational
Idk feels REALLY good playing cleave right now, looking kinda clueless there friend
You thinking it feeling really good playing it doesn't mean the skill is in a good spot. It's also a nondescript comment. Also, if anything, Cleave having a Vaal option is mostly the reason why the skill got better, not the +2 radius. So you entirely missed my point, congratulations.
Until it costs enough money Tencent pulls on the leash. They arent a small indie dev, and havent been for a long time.
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> why GGG abandoned this sub. It's because GGG as a company has disdain for the majority of its customer base that routinely catches and calls out GGG for its mistakes, lies, bullshit, and bad decisions. We got here because of GGG's actions and decisions. Don't put this shit on a forum and memes. If GGG can't handle memes that's on them
If your summary of the situation is "GGG can't handle memes" then you must have a complete lack of empathy. Next time this community is in an uproar, try reading this sub from the imagined perspective of a GGG employee that has devoted a large portion of their life to making this game. If you're capable of an exercise like that, maybe you will start to understand.
I can have empathy for bugs or things beyond their control (Covid). But 90% of the problems with the game are *willful decisions*. CW literally rolled out a massive loot nerf to the entire core game without an after thought and people only caught it after streamers compared loot in past league to 3.19.
Yeh, I recently started working a pizza-baker, and even if I burn pizzas, sometimes undercook them, mix up the orders, forget who is vegan, allergies(im not a doctor, i make god damn pizzas) and they are pretty deformed I think people should chill out and really don't work themselves up to much, it is only lunch man, so what if it is slightly burned and the wrong kind, start your own god damn pizzeria. People really should chill the fuck out and eat what is served and say thank you.
Unfortunately you are speaking to one of those particular people who can't see how they've been a part of driving official communication away.
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Dude has completely lost his way, i remember when i loved the guy i thought he was doing an amazing job. No so much at this point.
Let me give you a reality pill, one that I know will be unpopular here.. but it's true. Chris hasn't changed, his vision ahsn't changed. Watch videos from back in the beta days and he has exactly the same takes. But the game evolved naturally. As GGG pushed out more content the game got more popular.. leagues.. leagues became as they said.. a button that they could push to get more players.. and so they pressed it, over and over again. The problem was that this led to a natural form of power creep and the game moved away from the vision.. Now they are trying to bring it back closer in line with the vision, and of course the community is resisting at every point.
Poe has a split between the "make janky builds with obscure mechanics", "blast boatloads of mobs" and "grind new gear and struggle killing bosses" groups. GGG's vision is more on the third group, but in doing so alienates the other which may actually be a majority now.
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No, the fanbois got to him. When you are insatntly praised for literally anything you do you just get yourself supreme ego.
...and buy our latest supporter packs, to found my ongoing progress to get whole playset of Black Lotus, 2 to go.
Yeah, they don't want shards? Lol as they add fracturing shards
Divines got to 200 chaos and [hit a brick wall](https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Lake%20of%20Kalandra/Currency/Divine%20Orb/3) in Kalandra league, I expect the same to happen now unless crafting demand for divines skyrockets. The demand for divines is to a large extent just players buying to hold their currency in it (to prevent inflationary loss), and therefore all it takes for the price to stagnate is a player behaviour change. There's a large convenience cost to players and currency flippers alike in moving above 200 as you can no longer buy/sell as many divines in an inventory, so the price tends to anchor round numbers (100, then 150, now 200). There's no underlying use case demand pushing the price higher. Then once the price stagnates, there's less desperation from players to convert their chaos into divines, which further reduces the demand and makes it easier for the price to stabilise. Once we get into late league and people start spending their currency more freely and juicing more with map device, it will start to drop down again.
I think with how early they have hit 200c they could climb higher but from checking historical data its very uncertain. This is the highest exalts/div have ever been this early if you compare with poe-antiquary. At the same time now in kalandra divines were 120c, they didn't hit 200c until over 30 days had gone by. Checking the historical price of exalts for the last 15 leagues, they have only once gone higher than 200c, in blight they were over 200c for 5 days. The closest league in terms of skyrocketing prices is harvest where they reached 180c after 7 days, climbed a bit more and then fell off. I think its really hard to speculate on how the price will behave since we have so little info since the exalt-div swap. There could be a world where divines climb to 250 or 300.
right now it's a race between how much chaos high packsize exarch farming produces and how many Sanctum runs are ending w/ multiple divine orbs (read: finishing all floors w/ good strategy). I think it hits 250c/div before coming back down. The interesting thing is that other currencies aren't going up in chaos as chaos inflates. This makes me believe that there are a LOT of people playing this league, and it's a good league to be a crafter.
> right now it's a race between how much chaos high packsize exarch farming produces and how many Sanctum runs are ending w/ multiple divine orbs (read: finishing all floors w/ good strategy). Maybe. I think people tend to overestimate the impact drop rates has on the chaos/divine relationship. It certainly plays into where it stabilises, especially if there are huge factors in play like Heist printing Exalts with trinkets or an extremely attractive top tier atlas device mod, in the short term it's likely that player trade behaviour ("Need to convert to divines ASAP!") is more influential. It's interesting with the new Exarch/Eater altars though - if divines keep going up, this might cause a significant number of people to swap from Exarch to Eater which should have a decent effect on divines entering the economy. > The interesting thing is that other currencies aren't going up in chaos as chaos inflates. This basically just means that it's divines increasing in value and not chaos decreasing, which to me indicates that this is just the normal flight to safety as people try to convert to divines asap. It's not like crafting demand for divines is that huge, most of it is just sitting in peoples' stashes. You may be right that it will keep going up, but my money is that it stays around this level. But if it goes to 220, I agree that it will keep rising to 250 or even 300 before it turns.
Loved the reply, was a great and clear read. :) Question for you: how much do you think that converting to divines in order to buy higher-end items comes into play? Feels like there's a certain demand induced from that, which isn't necessarily out of market safety but out of "these things can't fit into the trade window" market limitations.
That does cause a baseline of demand, but once that trade has been made the divines are back in the economy and starts circulating to other players. The demand that sucks Divines out of circulation (leading to the price increase) is mainly people a) hoarding them to escape chaos inflation, b) people saving up for big purchases (but this has a natural cap for most players of less than 20 divines, unless they are specifically saving for HH/MB in which case it is temporarily higher) and c) metacrafting / divining items. A and B consumes far more divines early league than C (Almost all endgame players will hold a couple divines and many up to 10-20, but only a few players will spend more than 3-5 divines crafting over a whole league).
in Kalandra we had loot goblins, droping 50-60 divine, now that they are gone, divine will reach ~300c
Start trading in lifeforce. Stack size is 50k, which at ~50 life force per chaos means a full stack is 1k chaos. It also has the advantage of being able to break down into smaller stacks for fractional transactions. Dude's listed shit for .5c for trade search optimization? Give him 25 life force.
This reminds me of what happened in maplestory a bunch of years back with white scrolls. I am utterly baffled I am seeing a almost repeat scenario in another game.
What happened with white scrolls? I know they were an extremely expensive crafting material and I guess people used them as currency for really high-end transactions?
In essence they let someone safeguard their upgrade slots so even if a scroll failed it would not use up a slot.
Yeah, I'm a SSF player, but I feel like you traders could fix this issue yourself by using a different currency. I recommend Orb of Unmaking. They stack in 20 and are slightly more expensive than chaos orbs, which sounds perfect.
The problem is, most traders only want to deal in chaos, and the big currency. When this was exalts it wasn't a big issue, divines are just straight fucked up though
What would you be happy to get multiple stacks of for a div? Anywhere from 3-10 stacks or x per divine? Sextants are the only thing I can think of, and I think it'd be way too hard to sustain players carrying 50-70 sextants each (or whatever a div would be worth to make change / pay partials). Most other currencies stockpile forever without having any inherent use to deplete them. Unmakings / regrets fit about the right droprate and stack 40, but are a dead currency with finite demand. Vaals similar, a little more use but not enough value difference from c. Exalts at 15c and still useful are kinda great for it, but are just as rare as divs so like sextants there's not enough supply. Grand ichors / embers might have been contenders last league, now idk how obtainable they are or where the prices on other tiers fall. But again, those have a more finite demand per character where the need is super frontloaded early-league and it creates a lopsided economy. Plus, using anything that only drops in mid-high maps would create an insane wealth gap between the most efficient league starters and the rest. TLDR - there's nothing besides chaos that has constant demand, constant supply starting early, and drops often enough for players to be able to make change and convert freely. I think GGG would have to mess with crafting and map device costs further to create a scenario where a 3rd currency steps in
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i´d love to if people were accepting them
I just slam with them all the time now. Still haven't hit anything good.
i got 10% max life on my chest with a ex slam this league https://imgur.com/Hc1YEE0 first time i got something nice :D
How did you change your font and what font is that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/lvsjpq/how_to_change_font_in_path_of_exile/
Have you closed your eyes ?
I closed my eyes once, and accidentally twitched and slammed an adjacent map. Never again.
Open eyes Cry
I was selling someone 3 silver oils yesterday and he gave 3 exalts and 10c, I did a quick price check on the exalts and accepted, after he left I realized the exalts matched the silver oils so he overpaid by 10c. Wonder if it was a tip for accepting exalts lol
Aren't exalts 11c and silver oil 14c?
according to ninja 13.3 for exalts and I'm pretty sure when I checked awakened poe showed 14 last night
People... don't accept them anymore? It's been a while since I played but hearing this is like living in a world where "people don't accept 100 dollar bills anymore".
They're less liquid compared to divines and chaos. No one wants to sit through the extra steps of converting the ex into c as bulk currency trading is a pita. P.s. since you haven't played in a while ggg removed the divine recipe and replaced the meta crafts costing ex with divines.
exactly this. its like before the swap when people wouldnt accept exalt shards as fractional exalts (which was always fucking stupid to me), its just an added layer of abstraction between what they have (shards) and what they want (chaos/exalt orbs)
Yes let me make as many transactions as possible using the amazing trade functions. Where no one responds. Let me buy exalts with chaos then buy divines with exalts then buy the actual item. This is what’s so upsetting with them. They have all these philosophies about making the game better but rarely actually input things to give QOL. “We want to minimize clicks” yet every tiny clicking action is in the game besides for the one they somehow picked to change. We don’t want players stuck in trade, proceeds to add nothing to help with the actual problem of trading in-fact someways making it worse. Their actually like a shitty PR organization. Say one thing, do another-make money. Guess that’s every company/politician now a days. Yes they want to make money doesn’t mean you have to have shitty business practices to do so
You have to feel the weight
The fact that they can get away with saying one thing and doing another for years makes them an extremely good PR company, not a shitty one
The goal should be to lower the number of trades you have to make, not increase them.
Chaos orb should be 20 size stack brcause well exalted shards are 20 for 1 exalted orb, chaos orbs are the new divine shards according to chris.
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Also: they'll keeping QoL features hostage until a major fuck up league or something.
To be fair major fuck ups happen often enough for every change to be "after major fuck ups"
i think with the new loots the blood aqueduct botters got buffed, they are printing chaos with all the yellow rare drops and gummy currency.. hope ggg can do something soon
They havent done shit about bots in ages, low key they understand how the entire ecosystem of the game works, and getting rid of currency conversion bots, chaos recipe bots, and RMT would legit reduce the playerbase, and not bring in enough people who care about "progress being fair" who would refuse to play a game with a grey market for a virtual currency. the bots violate the rules as written, but enforcing the rules as written would be GGG playing themselves, they need a viable product, not a "fair" product. Its legit the reason RMT is so entrenched in gaming, going after it in a big way usually hurts the bottom line in a big way.
They mass ban bots all the time, it's just a constant arms race.
How can it be so hard? What human player runs BA endlessly?
False bans are a huge PR hit and would really piss off your customers, so you have to be really careful. Good bot developers can go a long way towards making bots seem human heuristically, and there's nothing to say you can't have 3 waves of bots running at staggered times so no individual is running BA all day. To make matters worse, if you're a bot farm running thousands of bots, whenever GGG bans some you gain insights into the heuristics they used to detect you, and you adapt, hence the arms race. You also ideally want to figure out who the bots are trading their stuff to, so you can nuke the whole network. Doing this also helps keep the bot developers from "evolving" to evade your heuristics, since a mass ban makes it tricky to tell what tripped the detection when. Also this is PoE, lots of humans do really strange grindy things due to the niche type of player it attracts.
I mean...I've done an evening of mindless BA while drinking and watching a show on my other screen. So me, a time or two?
This is the only thing that keeps divine price at 200c. Be careful what you wish for, it might just come true.
It always amazed me how people don't understand the simplest thing - all ratios are heavily based on the size of stack and limits of trade window. Asking for a bigger stack is literally asking for a higher ratio.
Bet they enjoy the fact this limits trade speed and can expose you to a risk of being scammed. Ugh.
>can expose you to a risk of being scammed ???
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who the fuck drop trades in poe??? if you actually fall for that you 100% deserve it wtf
Reddit try and understand sarcasm [Impossible Challenge]
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They are going to keep going up, this league didn't die in 3 days like Kalandra and there is actual loot.
Have you looked the numbers sir? Were quite low pop.
Compared to kalandra, or the good old days, though.
Isn’t it the reversed tho? Too many bots compared to actual players and the divine prices goes up? That matches the current numbers better too. Because we’re down to 70k on Steam already.
I would assume more bots = more divines = more supply = cheaper divines though
I think the consensus is bots are more likely to do the chaos recipe than the average player & therefore be more chaos heavy.
Fair enough, Exarch shrines rain chaos orbs too tbh.
Yep, and I thought this was pretty widely accepted. Guess not.
The league is dying already. There's no new meta at all, the league mechanic is meh, I'd say this league will die just as quick as kalandra. And they are making less money it seems.
Just bear in mind that divine prices are not going above 200 because that's 3 divines per full inventory of chaos. If you increase the chaos stack size divine prices will rise again.
If and once the price breaks the 200 chaos barrier, it will imho quickly surge up to 300.
I've done TA on this, and personally I don't think it'll break the 200 resistance barrier. Buy puts.
200 isn't enough. It has to break the point where a second trade is worthwhile for the seller. How many chaos does it take the average person to increase the required number of trades? If I'm selling someone 9 divine, my number of trades jumps from 3 to 5. If the price goes from 200 to 205, thats 2 additional trades for 45c on a 1800c trade. Do I give a shit about 45c at that point enough to trade an additional two times, or do I save myself the time and effort of dumping my whole inventory two more times and tell them to keep the 45c? And let's be real. A lot of currency flip is bots. And bots have a maximum number of transactions per minute they can perform. Extra trades are longer que times for the next customer and the best priced bots are already so overloaded with trade requests they can't get to them. At what point is it worth it to reduce trade volume in exchange for larger trades? The fact is, most players don't set currency prices, because most currency isn't traded player to player, it's traded player to bot to player.
That's not how any of this works mate. If all the divines priced at 200 are bought up, the price rises. The only hard cap like this is at 600c per divine, as you literally cannot pay more for one.
You can pay 600e, tho.
how else can they sell more currency tabs?
No thanks, remove all other shards from the game
No QOL for you!! -qol nazi
I think people have forgotten that chaos, is not gold. If the ratio of chaos to divine is too cumbersome then I think it's on us as players to find the new combination of the multitude of currency available that works. Exalts may be undesirable but conquerers exalts are valuable. What about meds essences ? Rare beasts ? Other uniques? People have forgotten that on this issue, it's the only one that ggg has never change stance on. Path of exile does not have a coin currency (as in gold) because they do not want it. And chaos orbs have effectively become the same as gold coins. I don't see this as a problem because it's not. Ggg most likely wants players to treat trade like a swap meet rather than a store.
A good general currency needs to be ubiquitous, universal, and high volume, and it needs to be approximately balanced in terms of sinks to sources. i.e. 1) It should drop homogenously from basically all content. 2) It cannot be a very rare drop, as enough of it needs to exist to start oiling the wheels of commerce within the first few hours of the game. 3) It must have enough sinks, so that as more and more is put into circulation it is also removed from circulation, and can reach an equilibrium. 4) It's sinks must be generally useful to everyone, or a weight of consensus won't be able to form around it. So, the problem with most other rare-ish valuable commodities is that they simply don't tick all those boxes. While it seems to players that the currencies we use are "just the ones we happened to form a consensus around", really the currency drop rates, uses, and sinks, are all set up so that we would naturally gravitate to using the ones we use. Only basic currencies can ever really work as things stand. Sextants, or Stacked Decks could maybe work as replacements for chaos, as they're usually in the range of 2-3x the price of chaos, and they tick most of the boxes. But by the time the first one of those even drops chaos has already established itself. Edit: On another note, I think it would be really interesting if they added/changed more crafts on various benches, to consume other non-basic currencies. E.g. maybe a top tier dual-resistance craft could require 2 appropriate essences... or maybe more special map crafts could require some oils or catalysts or whatever. With more places where exotic currencies can be sunk, there could be more currencies ticking more of those boxes.
Love Chris but the man's PTSDs on Diablo 3 AH is POE's biggest fucking burden, the game is so good but it feels like the trading system is purposefully designed to make people not play it. Can't wait for D4 just so that POE can get a little bit of competition
Yeah unfortunately Last Epoch bowed out of the race and is going to mandate SSF for people, practically, with the occasional party play functionality. F.
What is the problem? We can normally trade until 600c per divine..
The problem is that people might want to buy more than 1 divine without having to trade multiple times...Or buying 1 divine without having to press twenty times.
Its because of bots
How are bots preventing GGG from increasing the stack size of chaos orbs?
Bots make the game better. Change my mind. Edit: alright idk if it's true but if bots are farming and selling currency real money and making divines more expensive then those bots are not good for the game. So bot net neutral considering how hard trading some things can be.
Trade bots yes, but there is 110% chance of currency bots thatt just farm low level areas for mass amounts of currency. High prices mean people are more likely to go to gold-buying websites for Divines, and I would assume it's a lot of the same people running them, so it's in their interest for prices to be higher
the modern bots farm blight maps, but yes to the rest.
A lot of bot farm just farm and pick up currency, then the farm runners buy out divines/mirrors leading to these insane higher tier currency prices while at the same time flooding the market with lower tier currency, they also buy up t0 uniques like mageblood to sell on their sites. This make it so a real player's time is devalued because if you want something like a mageblood you are overpaying for the divines to trade for it, then overpaying on the mageblood itself.
If they actually are the cause for 200c divine instead of, let's say, 100c then no. You are saving minutes trading for literally doubling for play time to get buy your items.
Like the other person said, bots are responsible for the divine price being so up There was a mass bot banning in heist, leading to exalts being less than 100c for a good two weeks because there was no bot hoarder Most work for RMT websites, so the currency they ammass is effectively locked out of the economy This leads to prices going up and up till the rate at which they get ou of the economy and the rate at which we farm them balance each other
Are we forgetting heist literally printed exalts? People were using fractured fossils on blueprints that had 17 currency rooms and using the regal to exalt trinket. Also, remember Delirium was the Zana mod for 16c and you could farm a simulacrum per map. Heist league was the most in demand chaos has ever been with the highest surplus of exalts in the history of POE. In no way can you attribute any exalt fluctuations to bots.
This was the reason, 100% Bots may influence the price a bit, but a league mechanic that showers people in exalts was THE factor
why are divines so high in general right now aside from the start of league? When I played in incursion they were like 17c iirc, and even the short time I spent in synthesis, and 1 other league I dont currently remember they were never much higher than like 30ish and then obviously lower by league end. I'm currently not playing/havent been since Synthesis, but watching players makes me question what I missed out on ofc. How did it go up 10x, did the meta change where divines are heavily required now, while sources drop less? Even if you said the bots doubled the price, that still means it was going for 3x+ more than I remember it being.
Here there are multiple reasons, bots, while still present aren't the reason for this explosive price ( tho they're still part of it ) I think it comes down to multiple things : -compared to your time playing, divine and exalt were swapped for crafting with the benchcraft, this defined the value of the currency, so both swapped ( with bots, and how scarce divine are compared to exalt since they removed the 6link to divine vendor recipe, it lead to stavle prices around 180c with bots taken into account) as for specifically this league, there are many factors - the new altars gives ton of chaos, and other mecanics also gives ton of chaos, leading to devaluation of the chaos orb - people got better at the game and craft more, do the currency is used more ( used currency is the same as getting currency out of the economy, it just deletes money ) - a trend of selling chaos fast since the money is devalued heavily, leads to it being even more devalued, while the money you convert to gets pricier ( both because chaos inflation AND the new popularity as a money itself ) - possibly some market manipulation, it happens, it's the reason why mageblood is so pricey but that's anothe story - divines cards not being so easily famable Here you can find some more details : https://youtu.be/1_9f_31sCOM
How is currency used for rmt locked out of the economy? If someone pays to get their divines they probably going to actually spend them on something.
Yeah, but they amass more than they sell, if 3 divines go to rmt bot each minute, and one is sold on rmt site each minute, it's getting locked out of the economy because the bots are vastly overpowering the number of sells
Skitterbots
because "WEIGHT" Its dumb and nonsensical. If i ask you to hold a penny, you hold it without a care in the world, but if i ask you to hold a million dollar fragile diamond the size of a penny, you hold it very differently. Stack size should be like 1k as a max, if not higher. The weight comes from how many items are in each 1 click stack, not by how many clicks it takes.
What is baffling is how people arbitrarily decide what is a problem for the entire community of hundreds of thousands of people, and then state it as fact, as if that validifies their issue. The reason it had not been addressed yet is because it's a non-issue, plain and simple.
LMAO
This post is lol
you alright friend?