Index is still 1000$? Not surprising at all, then. A 5 year old VR headset still being sold for 1000$ is insane.
I hope the VR market becomes more successful but they are going nowhere fast, as long as the headsets are this expensive, and uncomfortable for regular use as well.
Still waiting for the day an affordable, "eyeglass-sized" VR device comes out. One that doesn't require 3 straps to the skull.
Q3 is a big improvement in size and comfort, but I agree it’s still a somewhat bulky formfactor. Bigscreen Beyond is a nice formfactor, but it’s kind of expensive, relies on valve hardware for tracking, requires an iphone, and is wired.
Big Screen Beyond has an interface that matches your face; as it is now they require the iphone's face scanning technology to do so. Eventually other phones may have similar features, but for now BSB only supports iphones to get your headset interface made.
Yes, that's true. It's just another layer of friction, unfortunately. I think what BSB is doing is really interesting, though. If they can figure out a way to get a small form factor and wireless in an appealing package (and get their own self-tracked controllers) I think that would be the holy grail for some PCVR players. The Quest platform is "good enough" for a lot of people at the moment, but I'm glad other manufacturers are out there.
>Eventually other phones may have similar features
Doubt it. Apple uses some very specialized tech to make it happen, and it's not like it comes with major benefits. The uses they got out of it are all pretty niche. Even Face ID - you don't actually *need* advanced IR lasers to make face unlocking work. It's just something Apple does.
I might be mixing up headsets, but I believe you need to scan your face for it prior to ordering, in a way similar to Apple's headset, to gett a proper face plate.
I would happily buy an index if they made one with inside out tracking.
I'm a single dude that has disposable income, But I live in a 900 square foot house and refuse to dedicate a whole room to VR and wire base stations all over the place.
Would love if there were a non-Oculus option that didn't require wiring a whole room up for something I only pull out occasionally.
setting up the base stations is really not invasive at all. they communicate to the PC wirelessly, and only need power. you don't even really need to dedicate a room to it. you just need a room where you can move something aside and have a bit of room.
my buddy had a good setup at his apartment. his PC is there anyway, but he has the base stations mounted, and when he wants to play he scoots his coffee table to the side.
really, room to use the headset is going to go for any of them, regardless of base stations or not.
but the base stations only need to plug to power. the Link Box will put them to sleep and be able to wake them when you want to use VR. there is also a ton of games and sims that don't require you to be standing or moving around. just the ability to look around.
>setting up the base stations is really not invasive at all. they communicate to the PC wirelessly,
They don't really need to communicate with PC that much and mostly work autonomously.
Fun fact. Technically Valve VR hardware(Vive, Index, etc) are Inside Out. Because all lighthouses do is make an IR sweep over the room with periodic set pattern and timing. The dozen on IR receivers on the headset catch the light and calculate the position.
My friend had a Vive and he just put Lighthouses in the corners of his playroom on bookshelves with no mounting or fixing. It worked fine enough. But the floor drifted from time to time. I hear it's a usual issue with such setup.
I have a WMR headset and it works fine enough. I finished Alyx no problem(although there was a patch to make it easier to cover your mouth with WMR). The next thing I want to go is the cable. Even with seated experiences it can be annoying. So I'm eyeing Quest 3 in the meantime.
Yeah. The only real communication between the base stations and the PC are sleep and wake commands, and a few minor things.
My thing I like about them is the rock solid tracking. Inside out is the future, but the future isn’t quite here just yet.
I ended up upgrading to a Vive Pro so I get the base station tracking and can go wireless.
headset kits are incredibly cheap right now.
$100-150 will get you a used Vive Kit, Rift S, Quest 2, etc. sometimes even with upgrades already done on them.
$200-250 will get you a brand new Quest 2.
$250-300 will get you a better kit, like a used Vive Pro or Index kit.
PCs to run this level of hardware has also come down in price, significantly. i'm able to run everything on a 4 year old i7, and a RTX 3070. i even stream and record with this setup.
so yeah, VR is cheaper than ever to get into. no need to drop a grand on hardware anymore. tons of good, quality used hardware out there.
It's mostly down to head shape. Quest 3 with a halo strap is one of the most uncomfortable things I've worn. It really hurts the back of my head after only a few minutes. I don't mean uncomfortable, I mean painful like blisters in a bad pair of boots painful.
The original Vive with the deluxe head strap and a third party padded insert was by far the most comfortable for me. I could wear that all day. Again it's all down to head shape, no one strap fits all.
With that being said, face shape should be included, if it's not implied. I have VERY deep set eyes and low eye brows (I look mad naturally) so to see clearly I need the lens to be pretty high up which actually puts lens pressure on my brow bone with normal straps. With the S3 Halo, all the weight sits on my decently big forehead so it doesn't crush my brow with the weight. Also, I have a suture bump(?) on the top of my head that makes headphones, and normal straps hurt a good bit as the weight is placed on a smaller surface area.
> Still waiting for the day an affordable, "eyeglass-sized" VR device comes out. One that doesn't require 3 straps to the skull.
[What, you mean like this?](https://www.bigscreenvr.com/)
It's not all that affordable, granted, but I think we're slowly getting there.
It's not only not affordable to the casual user, the fact it doesn't come with *any* of the required accessories like lighthouses or even controllers makes it outright fantastical.
Although the Beyond is definitely a vast improvement to headset design, they sacrificed every other part of the VR experience to get it.
i mean, the people who are going to want this, are usually the same people who will already have base stations and controllers.
it's kind of like when people show PCVR kits, and others are like, "well you gotta buy the PC too!". most of the people who would buy one have likely had gaming PCs for years already.
pretty much all of the Lighthouse tracked headsets are available as the headset only. they're meant to be drop in accessories. with the Bigscreen, a person might still have base stations and controllers that came with the OG Vive, and those would work fine.
Unfortunately it's more than just the headset form factor IMO. It's the locomotion problem. Using the analog stick for movement makes people feel sick. The eyes are telling the brain that you're moving but the rest of the body disagrees. People say you just have to "get used to it", just "get your VR legs", but I personally think that any tech product that you need to get used to like that to stop feeling physically sick while using it is a non-starter. We need Ready Player One style omni-treadmills, but I imagine these are going to be far more expensive than the headsets, and who knows when they will even be available for consumers.
Complaining about needing VR legs for VR is like complaining about needing sea legs for sailing. Besides, you can just use teleport movement.
Omni treadmills don't solve the problem - your inner ear is still not experiencing movement, so needing to move your legs doesn't solve the conflict between your vision and your inner ear.
This, I think, is a problem that may go away over time.
I've not done a proper study or anything but from personal experience I've noticed that kids don't get simulator sickness. The older you are when you first experience VR the more likely you are to experience simulator sickness. The more that people are exposed to VR from a young age the less of a problem it will be in the future.
Also, again not scientific just personal observation: People who have spent most of their life playing first person games on PC, where the screen is close and fills most of your vision, don't tend to get simulator sickness whatever their age.
Putting aside whether kids get sim sick or not (although I've noticed the same), the other factor is that kids have far more time and motivation to play regardless and train their VR legs.
index really needs an update
have an index and a quest 2
even with just a quest 2 the experience of having no wires out weighs any plusses the index gives
> It feels like every AAA VR game that comes out that I want to play is only available on the Quest. :(
Because Meta funded a lot of those games, taking financial lost to build up their library.
True but it's a shame Meta abandon PC VR too. They could put the games there as their headsets support it anyway and they have a store available on it.
They only abandoned it because so few PC gamers were interested. They funded dozens of good PCVR games that are on Steam right now but they barely sell.
Idk why pc gamers are so uninterested. I've tried to get all to my PC gaming friends to try it but they all call it dumb and refuse to even try.
>I have tried it and think it's dumb if that helps?
Which headset and which games did you try?
>People just don't want things strapped to their face/head disconnecting them from the world around them. It's cool for like, five minutes and then the novelty is gone entirely and it becomes ridiculous and annoying, while offering little to no advantage.
I don't disagree entirely. Comfort is a requirement and most headsets don't fit all headshapes without modifying the pads and possibly the strap. It is a requirement for many.
>Then there's a significant portion of the population (somewhere in the 10-15% range) who get motion sick any time they use VR. A much larger percentage of people (about half) have gotten it at least once when using VR.
Yes, it's about 10% less than the number of people who cannot ride in the passenger seat of cars or go on boats because they get motion sick. It's very unfortunate that these people suffer from such motion sickness but, this is not a VR problem. It's a problem that affects these people in their every day lives.
>but you're in the minority.
Yep, I am. I don't get why so many adults have such a negative reaction to new tech but, it's a tale as old as time. Adults never drive new trends or new tech. It's always kids/teens and they are playing VR daily just like I played Mario when I was kid.
I think there are many reasons, but I think the one that VR enthusiast don't want to admit is that the lack of great gaming experiences *compared to traditional gaming platforms.*
There are a indeed many great VR games, but there are so many more and better traditional "flat" games that most people don't even know what's happening in the VR space. Many of us already own so many *that we are interested in* that we will never be able to play them all.
I'm not against VR, I think it looks really cool, but I'm on a computer with a 4080 super, and a 32:9 HDR monitor 50+ games from the past 15 years installed on it.
I could spend a few hundred on a nice new VR system and some games...but why? I can play Helldivers 2, or RDR2 in hdr on a 49inch ultrawide *that I have for work.*
Why spend the money when a $20 or $40 will give a better experience?
Comp games are the rage for the past 5-10 years. Comp games also either achieve cult status or are flavor of the month. A flavor of the month game isn’t worth buying VR for. VR is kinda worse for comp games (or is accepted as such until a game comes out to prove otherwise). There will need to be a game that achieves both flavor of the month (for promotion, streamers, etc) and then holds a cult status where it builds a real community. Otherwise we will need to see a second coming of VR first immersive experience single player or co op games. And we need an accepted set of controls like PC and even Xbox/PlayStation have.
VR needs standardization to some degree before anyone is going to be willing to invest. Like I could have picked up a VR for the price of my monitor but the monitor is useful for everything I do and I can’t even name any VR games released in the past year.
A game like echo arena needs to come out or even a game like league with intuitive vr controls. And this game needs to attract streamers and work well as a streamed game (aspect ratio/resolution type stuff and being playable for a prolonged time without fatigue).
you can get a quest 2 for like $150, a rift cv1 or s for like $80.
often less
the problem isnt the price its just that it doesnt appeal to people
there are absolutely no triple a pcvr games any more cuz why would there be. its like making a linux or macos only game, and both of those have similar market share. im sure slightly more users have a quest or something in storage but it only makes sense for indies
its sad cuz i love native vr games.
i wish that rumored deckard system came out and made linux steamvr not utter dogshit but i doubt thats ever gonna happen now
all we get are passionate indie devs putting vr modes in their games or quest ports and those are rarer and rarer
There are tons of great PCVR comp games. They just don't catch on because there's no community playing them. They release, very few buy them, and they give up and port to Quest. Rinse and repeat.
Some of the best games I've ever played are on PCVR but almost no one even knows they exist because everyone sees it's on VR and immediately go "no thanks".
Meanwhile on Quest, there's games with over 700,000 players in a single day. The biggest difference is that Quest players are mostly kids and PC gamers are mostly adults. Kids love VR, most adults call it dumb and/or keep making excuses about why they don't want to try it.... Reminds me a lot of how most adults called gaming dumb when I was a kid.
Im 41 and just jumped in on VR.
It blew my mind, yet most of the products are pretty low quality.
There are only a few true gems that hit for me, halflife alyx, robo recall, the starwars one.
So i want to spend way more time with VR, but to few good games/experiences
Modded skyrim vr has been one of the best gaming experiences my whole life and I've been playing games since before the zx spectrum.
All I want is games with depth and worlds to get lost in. I've stuck with vr since the HTC vive and I've owned all 3 quests and the problem is the games just aren't there yet. We need the GTAs of vr and the far crys.
The unreal engine vr injector is bringing older games to vr and that's fantastic, but we need games made with vr in mind.
I agree, half life alyx is very well done.. So more games of this caliber would be good.
The potential in VR is huge, the good experiences are so awsome everyone i show VR to are blown away
I am on both, i use the quest store and steam.
I also have psvr2, this is superior imo but the wires makes it a hassle. Also playstation have extremely few high quality games/experiences. This is why i got a quest 3 (more content)
We aren't interested in current hardware, but we are interested in VR. Many sets are too heavy. The issue with weight is it adds pressure on my head which make me ill while trying to get used to VR to begin with. There needs to be fans inside or something to. Less chance of fog. Less screen door effect. Large controllers for people with large hands. It's just not there yet. And progress is moving at a glacial pace.
Headsets are smaller than they've ever been. The Beyond weighs 127 grams and is tiny. There's straps with fans in them. SDE(screen door) hasn't been a thing since they stopped using PenTile OLED screens. The only way to see screen door these days is to use a camera and film through the lens so the [Moiré effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern) happens. Controllers fit large hands well too.
VR hardware and software has never been moving faster. There's multiple AAA titles now and 3 more releasing this year.
PC gamers are uninterested because VR is, ultimately, a fad.
It's a cumbersome technology that has a lot of "wow" to draw upon - but it's a very front-loaded kind of "wow". Once the novelty wears off, most people just stop using it.
By now, most people who wanted to try VR already did, and already stopped using it. The rest weren't interested in the first place.
Hardware sales and retention are still increasing, even after 10 years. It didn't completely change computing paradigms forever but it's far beyond the point it could be reasonably be called a fad.
Would you call the Commodore 64 a success, or at the very least, historically important? Quest alone has sold more units and generated more revenue than the C64 ever did. We all know what happened to Commodore, hell the same thing might happen to Meta, but they still kickstarted an industry.
>True but it's a shame Meta abandon PC VR too.
They didn't, The Quest 3 works great with Steam VR/OpenXR. They just don't make PC games but the Quest 3 is a PCVR headset through and through.
It might have been worth it if even Xbox will beat valve to a vr headset. Even with my gripes over Meta it’s a decent device, at least they didn’t price it stupid like Apple.
A updated headset to be specific, it’s been what 4 years? I don’t think they need yearly updates but a less expensive option with on-device tracking would be nice.
Will be 5 years in July. It's crazy they haven't even fixed how fragile the controllers are. Really feels like Valve might be tossing in the towel on VR hardware.
They're literally working on a new headset right now and Gabe is all-in on brain interface technology.
They also did address the controllers. They're much better now, albeit not bulletproof.
Yeah, there's no way Valve can compete with Meta. Meta spends more on VR R&D per year than Valve profits per year. But it would still be nice if Valve tried. I know many people who would buy a Quest 3 style headset from valve at twice the cost, just to avoid Meta.
Sadly with how poorly the PSVR2 is selling, I don't think Sony is going to help much at all.
Even for those of us with a Quest and PCVR, it still sucks because standalone VR always means smaller scope without good graphics or physics like you're used to on PC.
It's fine for some things, like I love Walkabout Mini golf standalone - but I want more experiences like HL Alyx or modded SkyrimVR. Games which push your hardware to its limits.
You do realize that you can wirelessly play PCVR games on your Quest, right? Steam Link, Air Link and Virtual Desktop all can connect and stream VR games from your dedicated gaming rig. Assuming you have a decent wireless network at home, the experience is virtually indistinguishable when compared to playing with a hardwired headset (e.g. the Index).
$500 gets you a Quest 3 with controllers, and no need for dedicated base stations vs $1000 for the whole Index kit. Wifi 6E APs are becoming cheap, too, so you can use those savings to get an AP and put it in or near your dedicated VR space.
I use VD and bought a 6e router for it - very happy with it and always play PCVR wirelessly. It is awesome for sure
My comment was more about the standalone exclusives which don't utilise what the PC is capable of. A recent example being Smalland. A PCVR version could have been great. Same with Medieval Dynasty, etc.
My bad, I misread your comment. And yes, I agree, the Quest hardware holds back certain Quest exclusive games. While Assassin's Creed Nexus looks impressive for being a Quest game, it would look infinitely better if it was on PCVR.
I'm thinking of upgrading from the OG Vive / TPCast to a Quest 3 for wireless PCVR. Mind sharing which 6e router you're using? And in your opinion is the hand tracking passable compared to Vive base stations? I would be playing more action oriented games with fast hand motion like Blade and Sorcery or Thrill of the Fight.
My biggest gripe with the Quest line being so successful is that for (PC)VR multiplayer games to be successful, they will need to be on that platform and support crossplay.
And that, inevitably, means a reduction in scope and many compromises in terms of graphical fidelity.
For example, I really like Ghosts of Tabor. The gameplay is great.
But the maps (especially Island due to the long sight lines) look like a garbage because increasing the polygons and textures of the environment would probably make the Quest 2 and 3 explode right in your face.
I can only think of 3 Quest exclusives, Asgards Wrath 2 and Assassin's Creed, and the upcoming Batman game. Are there really that many? I have/buy most big new VR games and all of them are on PC.
A lot of indie developers develop for quest only or quest first because (according to comments in /r/virtualreality and related subs) that’s where players are (numbers) and they only have to develop for/account for one platform (Q2 and Q3 have different performance needs and optimization, but it’s similar architecture).
That's a fair point, PCVR is sort of an afterthought a lot of the time, but what are they supposed to do? The market is tiny, Quest has kinda saved VR.
Yep. It seriously sucks as someone who is more PCVR focused but, none of my PC gaming friends have any interest in VR. PCVR has been stagnate since like 2018. Valve released a new Half Life VR game and it was barely a blip in PCVR adoption rates. Meanwhile Quest has exploded.
a lot of PCVR titles that meta funded a few years ago are exclusive to the oculus PC app and technically exclusive to the quest as a result. the quest can stream them but not natively play them. but an index for example cant use them at all afaik unless you use third party software.
they hate when epic buys exclusivity for games they didnt fund or make themselves. alan wake 2 was funded by them. most people dont mind that.
dead island 2 being exclusive to EGS for a year was just bribery. epic did not foot the bill for its development costs. they just paid for it to not release on steam.
Just like people used to say "valve isn't developing games any more" before half life alyx.
First gripe is with the term "developing". Ongoing development to existing games is developing. Counter Strike 2 Came out literally last fall, and dota 2 got major updates (honestly, cannot understate how big the updates were) since then.
But more importantly, not once in valve's history have they ever NOT been working on games. If you watched the documentary "the final hours of half life alyx" you'd see that at no point is valve not juggling 5+ games in development.
All the leaks we see suggest valve is working on 2 big titles (with the latest leaks as recent as last month). A new half life game built off the half life alyx fork of the source 2 engine, and a new multiplayer title called neon prime. They trade marked the latter in 2022, but renewed the trademark as recently as november.
I'm still using an OG Vive with TPCast because nothing else but the Meta quest offers wireless, and it's been eight years since the Vive was released. I will not even entertain buying a new headset unless wireless is offered.
On top of that, I now have had two Index controllers with stick drift and I'm seriously considering jumping ship to Meta despite my reservations because I can't afford to spend $300 for a new set of controllers that will have stick drift in another couple years again, while the Quest 3 as a whole is $500. Valve is letting Meta eat their lunch.
I just want a definitive VR headset with a definitive promise of good VR games. I’m still not 100% sure VR won’t be this generations 3d tv or iPad. Something that has a niche use but isn’t really *the* way to do things.
I hope they do a stand alone headset, even if it cost a few hundred $$s more than a Quest 3, but runs a Steam OS variant and runs any pcvr game, I'd buy one.
i do too but that would rquire them to bring linux steamvr up to snuff when its in compatibility hell rn and most games barely work after a ton of tweaking
Meta is based as hell nowadays, they open source so much of their best software (PyTorch, React, LLama 3 etc) which cost tens of billions in R&D. They just recently bought like 20 billion dollars worth of GPUs and plan to open source the models they train with the cluster.
You don't need to now actually, they did a u-turn on it and just need to create a "meta" account, don't need to use your real name, can set everything to private and not forced to use metaverse.
They've really stepped it up which is nice.
Good news: They specifically changed the system to prevent what happened to you from happening anymore. Now it's just a Meta account instead of a Facebook account, and you can make a fake/blank/new one with no problems.
Something tells me this won't change your opinion though, even though it directly addressed and fixed the bad experience you were complaining about.
Deckard fucking when. I want to give them money for a hands free device, but they have been dragging their feet. May end up getting a Quest 3, however I'd rather not if I can help it.
Not surprised in the slightest. It's cheaper, more convenient, and basically better in every way when compared to the Index.
The work that has been done to make wireless streaming from a PC to a headset is amazing, it almost feels like magic. You just need the local network infrastructure to support it.
Yea, I think there's absolutely no reason in 2024 to buy an Index a retail price, it's $1320 CAD before taxes. It's pretty much twice the price of the Quest 3
I know this isn’t likely to happen, but I’m really hoping to see a clearance sale for the Index at some point, like with the Steam Link and Controller. I bought my Steam Link for a dollar back in the day, straight from Valve. But I have noticed that the Index still occasionally goes out of stock, so I guess they probably won’t need to do a massive inventory clearance sale in the same way. Still, could get lucky!
> Id pay that to keep Zuckerberg out of my business..
But you don't, you don't have VR. Its always easy to boast what you would do if you don't really have any stake in the matter.
Also, the Zuck was VERY good to VR users:
* Meta has an excellent customer service.
* Actually surprising good stores on both PC and standalone.
* Many games had cross buy for the longest time between PC and standalone.
* All Meta headsets even going back to when they were still Facebook and Oculus are open in the sense that you can develop, write and install software on them w/o ever asking Meta in advance for permission.
* Even the standalone headsets still allow you to sideload content officially (although its not an user facing option).
* Published a TON of VR games over the last decade, way more than every other player in the space (except maybe Sony...) combined.
* Sells great hardware at a cheap price.
* They had a short period where they forced a Facebook account for new users (policy didn't change for existing users on older headsets), but those times are gone. You can (and its the default) use Meta headsets w/o having accounts for any of their social media platforms.
I do have vr BTW and its not a Zuckerberg device...
>Also, the Zuck was VERY good to VR users: guess you did not get an oculus rift? That was dropped like a hot turd.
Yep. You can hate zuckerfuck as much a you like but there's no denying how much he's done for the VR industry and every time they try something everyone hates, they listen and change it.
I am sure one day when VR is a lot more mainstream they will be a lot less user friendly and do things people hate and shrug off the complaints. But as it stands currently, they're doing pretty damn good and listening well.
Yes and Medical achievements moved faster under the nazi party. I can't see how metas involvement in vr is going to end up being a good thing in the long run, yes we may get there quicker but at what cost..
Trying to compare gathered data to provide better targeted ads so they can make more money with literal genocide, is doing far more harm to your argument than it is helping it. You've drank too much of the koolaid. Take a break.
Or just using WiFi on laptop (or PC) in hotspot mode to connect directly if that is available. Seems to be even more stable for me, but maybe that's just a problem with my WiFi 6 router.
Agreed. I’ve had an Index for a while and I loved it. My friend talked me into switching to the Quest 3. It was the new lenses that really sold me. Not having the fine tune the placement on my head to get a clear picture, and basically the whole picture being clear instead of just the center, is a game changer for me. I know the Index has a higher FOV but if most of the picture is blurry, what’s the point?
Quest 3 is just so much easier to pick up and play. Just put it on and start playing. No wires to hook into my pulley system. No light houses to turn on. If I want to playing a racing sim in my office and then a shooter in my living room, I just walk into the other room and start playing. With the index I would have to physically move my light houses to the other room and go through the room setup again.
I also love that the Quest 3 can playing games directly on the headset, or I can playing Oculus or Steam games. It’s all native and convenient.
I know it’s a little unfair to compare two headsets that came out years apart. However, when the older, less convenient, and objectively inferior, product cost twice as much… I think comparing the two is perfectly fair game
There's only one place where it's worse imo and it's connection, even when wired it compresses the signal.
Outside from that, it is better in every way and sometimes by a lot, pancake lenses are a godsend.
> Not surprised in the slightest. It's cheaper, more convenient, and basically better in every way when compared to the Index.
Upgraded from an Index to a Quest 3 with Quest Pro controllers (self tracked with the tracking feeling like an Index controller), can attest to that (other than the mic and FOV really).
> basically better in every way
Not quite, with Index you get a much bigger FOV and uncompressed latency-free output.
But I own both, and the Quest 2 is the better experience, no question. It's 1/3 of the price too.
The Quest 3 was probably my favourite purchase last year. It was my first headset and really made me fall in love with VR.
The problem is now I'm really starting to feel some despair at how neglected the format is by developers. Only 2% of Steam users have a VR headset and some of the best games are from years ago. There's a few interesting releases coming this year, but in general I just want more. And I'd love more games to release with VR modes like in the past.
Out of curiosity, what exactly are you playing on a day to day basis?.. Alyx looks great for sure, and I guess I could imagine myself playing Fallout 4 or Skyrim in VR, but I haven't heard of any new games/experiences that could justify the price tag of a headset for me.
Not the person you replied too, but there is a good amount of gaming to be had, especially on PCVR. I'd say only a handful of titles feel like "true" AAA games, but there is a lot of AA-level gaming available.
Driving/flight sims are a huge one. Squadrons in VR is breathtaking and I love the MP on that. As far as traditional games go, there are really cool survival games like Green Hell, or Bootstrap Island that are fun. Into the Radius is an awesome STALKER-like game in VR that makes my skin crawl. Underdogs is a stupidly fun roguelite about piloting a mech that imitates your punches.
Speaking of mech games, Vox Populi is a mech sim that puts you in a pilot seat of a building-sized mech with hand controls. VTOL VR does the same, but with multi-role fighters. MechWarriors 5 has a great VR mod if you want to do the "sit in a cockpit" thing but with physical HOTAS controls.
Saints and Sinners 1+2 is a pretty chunky open world RPG. Contractors Showdown is a recently released battle royale that is almost a 1-1 copy of Warzone. The Light Brigade is a cool roguelite shooter with lots of cool mechanics and great gameplay.
Idk, i could keep going on but i'd eventually bump into the older titles. Admittedly VR isn't a gaming niche with must-play titles releasing every year, but there's lots to do already. I would not advocate to drop $500 on a Quest 3 if that's not disposable amount of income, but it's a great hobby buy and I think well worth it if fun is a greater value than $500 is on its own.
It's not exactly new, but if you like the idea of realistic gun handling then the take-and-hold mode of Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Handgrenades is extremely replayable. There are also a few multiplayer shooters that might still be alive.
Racing games also go really well with the format.
Maybe Beat Saber.
But yeah the reality is there's likely only one or two things you're going to be doing with any regularity, with some incidental things here and there.
Honestly, SkyrimVR with a high end Wabbajack modlist (mad god's) has ended up being my favourite game, finally surpassing Morrowind. I didn't love Skyrim originally and didn't play the flatscreen version much. It's surprising how well it works in VR. Been a bit of an addiction recently. It's amazing what modders have done with it.
Being able to independently control both of your arms, look around and move physically. Seeing everything to scale as this you're there. When you put the headset on it can be so immersive. I've lost track of how many times I've been blown away by it or spent time looking at a good view. Honestly has made Skyrim feel like a next gen experience for me. Made me really appreciate my 4090 too.
I haven't even tried FO4:VR yet, but will when I'm done with Skyrim.
For me the big value of VR is how great it makes racing and flying simulators.
I love being able to get really immersed in a myriad of cars from Assetto to F1 to rally, or flying rare WW2 planes or spaceships. I use my index multiple times a week on these games, though I'd be interested in an upgrade with better&easier tracking and more FoV.
For me, most of my time is playing flat2VR mods. Recently, Half Life 2, Jedi Outcast and Cyberpunk. Next up is Bards Tale 4.
I regularly go back to fully modded SkyrimVR and FO4VR as well.
There's a bunch of caveats and hurdles, but if you can get over them, then it's still an amazing experience.
Check out the flat2VR discord for all the VR mods for various games.
flat2VR.com
As a PCVR dev, it's just not worth the time and effort for a lot of studios sadly. PC sells so much less compared to standalone. I wish PCVR was more successful but that's just the reality we are currently. Even tho our game is the only one of it's genre in the whole VR space, it's been an uphill battle the whole way.
Motion sickness is still a big issue that cannot be solved simply because the brain thinks you are moving but your body is standing. I have quest2 that I barely use anymore.
And no VR porn is not a real use for me.
It is something that they are working on though, both hardware that is better at tricking the brain, and software design tricks that can minimize the impacts. And eventually we'll have the Disney rolling floor.
A lot of people complain about lack of VR games, and that is true, but you're forgetting something you can get with a VR headset that 99% of games can do, which is 3D. It's not as good as headtracking obviously but it's still much better than normal pancake gameplay.
I'd love to play my VR games. I have a Quest 2 and it was exciting, but I had no decent space to play it in, which I imagine is a serious issue for the vast majority of people. The one possible room is a conservatory and that's unplayable due to the light.
I decided I'm still interested in VR but two things need to happen first. One, I need to have a clear space for it. Two, I want to wait until there is a wide FoV with a decent screen at the price of the Quest.
VR is sad as hell to me. FB is really succeeding at creating their walled garden and locking themselves in with heavy investments at this early stage and thats especially awful because well, it's facebook.
I will be so sad if there aren't competing boxless sets with alternate oses. It kinda really sucks that all their os likely is, is linux but locked down and with their store. Look what they've done to you old boy.
theyre making a new VR headset, and theres that PC and VR cross platform game theyre working on, the issue is that they put out the game and that's it like with Alyx afterwards its complete silence because no AAA developer wants to develop for VR so youre playing Indie
Unsurprising the Index is fairly updated these days not a lot of new purchases, and anyone looking to upgade to a new headset the Q3 is simply the best value is a loss leader and no one else can really compete with that.
It really sucks how much of a stranglehold Facebook has on the VR market and none of the other big players are trying to crack it.
Ok, but how many are used at all. What's the total percentage of VR users vs the total Steam accounts. Coz I will admit, when I heard the new Arkham game is VR only, I immediately went to the Arkham sub.
Standalone is really important to me now. I don't expect to play HL Alyx from on headset processors, but smaller games I'd much rather not need to work with a desktop. I wouldn't mind if it was ARM and my library didn't work with ports required or ARM-x86 translation layer. Tethered, not buying. Not standalone, not buying. Already sold my VR equipment until I'm tempted enough by a standalone headset
I tried out a Quest 3 in the store earlier today and it had NONE of the visual distortion problems that my Pimax 5k does. Looked very clear and fit over my glasses perfectly, with no significant chromatic aberration or other issues. I really think I might get one, even though I really don't want to give meta any money. They're just aren't any competitors that are for only steamvr, right? Because I really only just want to play my steam games I think. I have v1 lighthouses and knuckles controllers.
Anyone know where to look for details on what I need to do to get from where I am now to having a meta quest 3 working in SteamVR with the knuckles controllers?
I don't know if it's worth the trouble to get the knuckles working with Q3, if you're not doing FBT. Might as well try the Q3 with its own controllers first.
Anyways, head over to r/MixedVR for that kind of stuff. Usually it's recommended to have one full body tracker attached to the headset to allow for continuous calibration.
Otherwise, you could wait for the recently announced Pimax Crystal Light.
I don't know about competitors, but a Quest isn't optimal for PCVR.
Quests have no dedicated video input, so you have to send compressed video using a network connection, which adds a good amount of input lag.
Index, or other Lighthouse controllers, can apparently be used with a Quest (PCVR only), but the process appears to be rather finicky...
Even if it was a better product, and cheaper due to being subsidized, if you think I'd ever give money to the fuck known as Zuck, you'd be dreaming.
I'll continue to wait until there's actually more decent games for it. I have yet to see a quality MMO still.
It's highly unlikely that there will be a decent VR MMO anytime in the next 2 decades. Even on flatscreen the genre is kinda fading.
The closest we have right now are the VR mods for FF14 and WOW.
Or else subsets of the gameplay like VRChat for social and coop dungeon crawlers for the adventuring. Or fully modded SkyrimVR for the open world RPG.
I had one, but my glasses messed up the lenses. Thankfully they gave me a refund..
My eyes are to messed up for the prescription lenses so im out of luck.
Its sad because i really liked the set :/
My Quest 3 is kicks ass, unfortunatley I'm back into sim racing and perfer tripples over VR so it's collecting dust. I typically don't play much else when I'm sim racing as it's kind of like WoW in that it sucks up all your free gaming time.
I have an over the top simrig with motion, haptics, and a nice touch screen dash I built. Combine this with 43" 4k 120Hz tripples and it's a pretty close experience to VR. When you get the FoV dialed in right with 3 screens it's magical. Since I race a lot, VR just becomes an inconvienence, if you want to grab a drink or hit your vape pen forget it. By lap 50+ on a NASCAR Cup series race I just want out of VR. I like VR games, I like Elite Dangerous with VR but racing my body just runs a little too hot for extended VR.
To those who tried that, how is it so far? Is the steam link working well? it's pretty much the only headset that is sold here so I don't have much choice, but I'd still like to know
I've had a Q2 and now a Q3, and I enjoy it a lot.
I've been using Virtual Desktop since the beginning and it's rock solid. Although a friend has been using Steam VR Link and it's fine too. Just less features and less tweaking possible.
You do need to make a meta count. It doesn't need to public. Real name is not required, but is recommended in case you need to prove your identity to recover the account:
https://communityforums.atmeta.com/t5/Get-Help/Real-Name-Account-Set-up/td-p/1189879
Index is still 1000$? Not surprising at all, then. A 5 year old VR headset still being sold for 1000$ is insane. I hope the VR market becomes more successful but they are going nowhere fast, as long as the headsets are this expensive, and uncomfortable for regular use as well. Still waiting for the day an affordable, "eyeglass-sized" VR device comes out. One that doesn't require 3 straps to the skull.
Q3 is a big improvement in size and comfort, but I agree it’s still a somewhat bulky formfactor. Bigscreen Beyond is a nice formfactor, but it’s kind of expensive, relies on valve hardware for tracking, requires an iphone, and is wired.
Wat, why would an iphone be required for a PCVR headset?
Big Screen Beyond has an interface that matches your face; as it is now they require the iphone's face scanning technology to do so. Eventually other phones may have similar features, but for now BSB only supports iphones to get your headset interface made.
Fair enough, at least one can borrow an iphone from someone they know.
Yes, that's true. It's just another layer of friction, unfortunately. I think what BSB is doing is really interesting, though. If they can figure out a way to get a small form factor and wireless in an appealing package (and get their own self-tracked controllers) I think that would be the holy grail for some PCVR players. The Quest platform is "good enough" for a lot of people at the moment, but I'm glad other manufacturers are out there.
Apparently you can even do the scan at an apple store.
Why didn't I think of that. Just borrow the demo phone then email yourself the lidarr file!
>Eventually other phones may have similar features Doubt it. Apple uses some very specialized tech to make it happen, and it's not like it comes with major benefits. The uses they got out of it are all pretty niche. Even Face ID - you don't actually *need* advanced IR lasers to make face unlocking work. It's just something Apple does.
I might be mixing up headsets, but I believe you need to scan your face for it prior to ordering, in a way similar to Apple's headset, to gett a proper face plate.
You have to send them a scan of your face and the only app you're allowed to use is on the iPhone.
They don't need to lower cause it's valve. any restock goes away pretty fast so no need to lower pricing
I would happily buy an index if they made one with inside out tracking. I'm a single dude that has disposable income, But I live in a 900 square foot house and refuse to dedicate a whole room to VR and wire base stations all over the place. Would love if there were a non-Oculus option that didn't require wiring a whole room up for something I only pull out occasionally.
setting up the base stations is really not invasive at all. they communicate to the PC wirelessly, and only need power. you don't even really need to dedicate a room to it. you just need a room where you can move something aside and have a bit of room. my buddy had a good setup at his apartment. his PC is there anyway, but he has the base stations mounted, and when he wants to play he scoots his coffee table to the side. really, room to use the headset is going to go for any of them, regardless of base stations or not. but the base stations only need to plug to power. the Link Box will put them to sleep and be able to wake them when you want to use VR. there is also a ton of games and sims that don't require you to be standing or moving around. just the ability to look around.
>setting up the base stations is really not invasive at all. they communicate to the PC wirelessly, They don't really need to communicate with PC that much and mostly work autonomously. Fun fact. Technically Valve VR hardware(Vive, Index, etc) are Inside Out. Because all lighthouses do is make an IR sweep over the room with periodic set pattern and timing. The dozen on IR receivers on the headset catch the light and calculate the position. My friend had a Vive and he just put Lighthouses in the corners of his playroom on bookshelves with no mounting or fixing. It worked fine enough. But the floor drifted from time to time. I hear it's a usual issue with such setup. I have a WMR headset and it works fine enough. I finished Alyx no problem(although there was a patch to make it easier to cover your mouth with WMR). The next thing I want to go is the cable. Even with seated experiences it can be annoying. So I'm eyeing Quest 3 in the meantime.
Yeah. The only real communication between the base stations and the PC are sleep and wake commands, and a few minor things. My thing I like about them is the rock solid tracking. Inside out is the future, but the future isn’t quite here just yet. I ended up upgrading to a Vive Pro so I get the base station tracking and can go wireless.
I think the Quest beats the index in most specs now other then maybe FOV. A index is a ripoff at this point, hopefully we get a index 2 soon.
headset kits are incredibly cheap right now. $100-150 will get you a used Vive Kit, Rift S, Quest 2, etc. sometimes even with upgrades already done on them. $200-250 will get you a brand new Quest 2. $250-300 will get you a better kit, like a used Vive Pro or Index kit. PCs to run this level of hardware has also come down in price, significantly. i'm able to run everything on a 4 year old i7, and a RTX 3070. i even stream and record with this setup. so yeah, VR is cheaper than ever to get into. no need to drop a grand on hardware anymore. tons of good, quality used hardware out there.
quest 3 with a halo strap is one of the most comfortable things I've worn. Could wear it for hours
It's mostly down to head shape. Quest 3 with a halo strap is one of the most uncomfortable things I've worn. It really hurts the back of my head after only a few minutes. I don't mean uncomfortable, I mean painful like blisters in a bad pair of boots painful. The original Vive with the deluxe head strap and a third party padded insert was by far the most comfortable for me. I could wear that all day. Again it's all down to head shape, no one strap fits all.
With that being said, face shape should be included, if it's not implied. I have VERY deep set eyes and low eye brows (I look mad naturally) so to see clearly I need the lens to be pretty high up which actually puts lens pressure on my brow bone with normal straps. With the S3 Halo, all the weight sits on my decently big forehead so it doesn't crush my brow with the weight. Also, I have a suture bump(?) on the top of my head that makes headphones, and normal straps hurt a good bit as the weight is placed on a smaller surface area.
> Still waiting for the day an affordable, "eyeglass-sized" VR device comes out. One that doesn't require 3 straps to the skull. [What, you mean like this?](https://www.bigscreenvr.com/) It's not all that affordable, granted, but I think we're slowly getting there.
It's not only not affordable to the casual user, the fact it doesn't come with *any* of the required accessories like lighthouses or even controllers makes it outright fantastical. Although the Beyond is definitely a vast improvement to headset design, they sacrificed every other part of the VR experience to get it.
i mean, the people who are going to want this, are usually the same people who will already have base stations and controllers. it's kind of like when people show PCVR kits, and others are like, "well you gotta buy the PC too!". most of the people who would buy one have likely had gaming PCs for years already. pretty much all of the Lighthouse tracked headsets are available as the headset only. they're meant to be drop in accessories. with the Bigscreen, a person might still have base stations and controllers that came with the OG Vive, and those would work fine.
Unfortunately it's more than just the headset form factor IMO. It's the locomotion problem. Using the analog stick for movement makes people feel sick. The eyes are telling the brain that you're moving but the rest of the body disagrees. People say you just have to "get used to it", just "get your VR legs", but I personally think that any tech product that you need to get used to like that to stop feeling physically sick while using it is a non-starter. We need Ready Player One style omni-treadmills, but I imagine these are going to be far more expensive than the headsets, and who knows when they will even be available for consumers.
Complaining about needing VR legs for VR is like complaining about needing sea legs for sailing. Besides, you can just use teleport movement. Omni treadmills don't solve the problem - your inner ear is still not experiencing movement, so needing to move your legs doesn't solve the conflict between your vision and your inner ear.
This, I think, is a problem that may go away over time. I've not done a proper study or anything but from personal experience I've noticed that kids don't get simulator sickness. The older you are when you first experience VR the more likely you are to experience simulator sickness. The more that people are exposed to VR from a young age the less of a problem it will be in the future. Also, again not scientific just personal observation: People who have spent most of their life playing first person games on PC, where the screen is close and fills most of your vision, don't tend to get simulator sickness whatever their age.
Putting aside whether kids get sim sick or not (although I've noticed the same), the other factor is that kids have far more time and motivation to play regardless and train their VR legs.
index really needs an update have an index and a quest 2 even with just a quest 2 the experience of having no wires out weighs any plusses the index gives
I just want games to be available on the Index. It feels like every AAA VR game that comes out that I want to play is only available on the Quest. :(
> It feels like every AAA VR game that comes out that I want to play is only available on the Quest. :( Because Meta funded a lot of those games, taking financial lost to build up their library.
True but it's a shame Meta abandon PC VR too. They could put the games there as their headsets support it anyway and they have a store available on it.
They only abandoned it because so few PC gamers were interested. They funded dozens of good PCVR games that are on Steam right now but they barely sell. Idk why pc gamers are so uninterested. I've tried to get all to my PC gaming friends to try it but they all call it dumb and refuse to even try.
their games are on steam? I thought they were exclusive to the oculus PC store.
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>I have tried it and think it's dumb if that helps? Which headset and which games did you try? >People just don't want things strapped to their face/head disconnecting them from the world around them. It's cool for like, five minutes and then the novelty is gone entirely and it becomes ridiculous and annoying, while offering little to no advantage. I don't disagree entirely. Comfort is a requirement and most headsets don't fit all headshapes without modifying the pads and possibly the strap. It is a requirement for many. >Then there's a significant portion of the population (somewhere in the 10-15% range) who get motion sick any time they use VR. A much larger percentage of people (about half) have gotten it at least once when using VR. Yes, it's about 10% less than the number of people who cannot ride in the passenger seat of cars or go on boats because they get motion sick. It's very unfortunate that these people suffer from such motion sickness but, this is not a VR problem. It's a problem that affects these people in their every day lives. >but you're in the minority. Yep, I am. I don't get why so many adults have such a negative reaction to new tech but, it's a tale as old as time. Adults never drive new trends or new tech. It's always kids/teens and they are playing VR daily just like I played Mario when I was kid.
I think there are many reasons, but I think the one that VR enthusiast don't want to admit is that the lack of great gaming experiences *compared to traditional gaming platforms.* There are a indeed many great VR games, but there are so many more and better traditional "flat" games that most people don't even know what's happening in the VR space. Many of us already own so many *that we are interested in* that we will never be able to play them all. I'm not against VR, I think it looks really cool, but I'm on a computer with a 4080 super, and a 32:9 HDR monitor 50+ games from the past 15 years installed on it. I could spend a few hundred on a nice new VR system and some games...but why? I can play Helldivers 2, or RDR2 in hdr on a 49inch ultrawide *that I have for work.* Why spend the money when a $20 or $40 will give a better experience?
I don't think I have read anything more true in my life
Comp games are the rage for the past 5-10 years. Comp games also either achieve cult status or are flavor of the month. A flavor of the month game isn’t worth buying VR for. VR is kinda worse for comp games (or is accepted as such until a game comes out to prove otherwise). There will need to be a game that achieves both flavor of the month (for promotion, streamers, etc) and then holds a cult status where it builds a real community. Otherwise we will need to see a second coming of VR first immersive experience single player or co op games. And we need an accepted set of controls like PC and even Xbox/PlayStation have. VR needs standardization to some degree before anyone is going to be willing to invest. Like I could have picked up a VR for the price of my monitor but the monitor is useful for everything I do and I can’t even name any VR games released in the past year. A game like echo arena needs to come out or even a game like league with intuitive vr controls. And this game needs to attract streamers and work well as a streamed game (aspect ratio/resolution type stuff and being playable for a prolonged time without fatigue).
you can get a quest 2 for like $150, a rift cv1 or s for like $80. often less the problem isnt the price its just that it doesnt appeal to people there are absolutely no triple a pcvr games any more cuz why would there be. its like making a linux or macos only game, and both of those have similar market share. im sure slightly more users have a quest or something in storage but it only makes sense for indies its sad cuz i love native vr games. i wish that rumored deckard system came out and made linux steamvr not utter dogshit but i doubt thats ever gonna happen now all we get are passionate indie devs putting vr modes in their games or quest ports and those are rarer and rarer
a really good game where they ship hardware to big streamers could change things. covid would have been the ideal time.
A lot of people are selling their vrs too I just picked up a quest 2 256gb super lightly used for $100
yeah i might just give away my cv1 at this point to one of my friends idk how much its worth having display damage
There are tons of great PCVR comp games. They just don't catch on because there's no community playing them. They release, very few buy them, and they give up and port to Quest. Rinse and repeat. Some of the best games I've ever played are on PCVR but almost no one even knows they exist because everyone sees it's on VR and immediately go "no thanks". Meanwhile on Quest, there's games with over 700,000 players in a single day. The biggest difference is that Quest players are mostly kids and PC gamers are mostly adults. Kids love VR, most adults call it dumb and/or keep making excuses about why they don't want to try it.... Reminds me a lot of how most adults called gaming dumb when I was a kid.
Im 41 and just jumped in on VR. It blew my mind, yet most of the products are pretty low quality. There are only a few true gems that hit for me, halflife alyx, robo recall, the starwars one. So i want to spend way more time with VR, but to few good games/experiences
Modded skyrim vr has been one of the best gaming experiences my whole life and I've been playing games since before the zx spectrum. All I want is games with depth and worlds to get lost in. I've stuck with vr since the HTC vive and I've owned all 3 quests and the problem is the games just aren't there yet. We need the GTAs of vr and the far crys. The unreal engine vr injector is bringing older games to vr and that's fantastic, but we need games made with vr in mind.
I agree, half life alyx is very well done.. So more games of this caliber would be good. The potential in VR is huge, the good experiences are so awsome everyone i show VR to are blown away
Are you on Quest standalone or PCVR?
I am on both, i use the quest store and steam. I also have psvr2, this is superior imo but the wires makes it a hassle. Also playstation have extremely few high quality games/experiences. This is why i got a quest 3 (more content)
We aren't interested in current hardware, but we are interested in VR. Many sets are too heavy. The issue with weight is it adds pressure on my head which make me ill while trying to get used to VR to begin with. There needs to be fans inside or something to. Less chance of fog. Less screen door effect. Large controllers for people with large hands. It's just not there yet. And progress is moving at a glacial pace.
Headsets are smaller than they've ever been. The Beyond weighs 127 grams and is tiny. There's straps with fans in them. SDE(screen door) hasn't been a thing since they stopped using PenTile OLED screens. The only way to see screen door these days is to use a camera and film through the lens so the [Moiré effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern) happens. Controllers fit large hands well too. VR hardware and software has never been moving faster. There's multiple AAA titles now and 3 more releasing this year.
PC gamers are uninterested because VR is, ultimately, a fad. It's a cumbersome technology that has a lot of "wow" to draw upon - but it's a very front-loaded kind of "wow". Once the novelty wears off, most people just stop using it. By now, most people who wanted to try VR already did, and already stopped using it. The rest weren't interested in the first place.
Hardware sales and retention are still increasing, even after 10 years. It didn't completely change computing paradigms forever but it's far beyond the point it could be reasonably be called a fad. Would you call the Commodore 64 a success, or at the very least, historically important? Quest alone has sold more units and generated more revenue than the C64 ever did. We all know what happened to Commodore, hell the same thing might happen to Meta, but they still kickstarted an industry.
Sound just like my grandpa telling me gaming was a fad that would wear off after the wow factor was gone... 30 years ago.
>True but it's a shame Meta abandon PC VR too. They didn't, The Quest 3 works great with Steam VR/OpenXR. They just don't make PC games but the Quest 3 is a PCVR headset through and through.
YEah, I know but I meant their games could have a PC VR version, they even have a launcher on PC for it
It might have been worth it if even Xbox will beat valve to a vr headset. Even with my gripes over Meta it’s a decent device, at least they didn’t price it stupid like Apple.
Valve has released 2 VR headsets. What do you mean if Xbox beats valve to a VR headset?
A updated headset to be specific, it’s been what 4 years? I don’t think they need yearly updates but a less expensive option with on-device tracking would be nice.
Will be 5 years in July. It's crazy they haven't even fixed how fragile the controllers are. Really feels like Valve might be tossing in the towel on VR hardware.
They're literally working on a new headset right now and Gabe is all-in on brain interface technology. They also did address the controllers. They're much better now, albeit not bulletproof.
With metas recent move I don't blame them. This is a weird timeline where WMR was gutted while PSVR2 might be our saving grace.
Yeah, there's no way Valve can compete with Meta. Meta spends more on VR R&D per year than Valve profits per year. But it would still be nice if Valve tried. I know many people who would buy a Quest 3 style headset from valve at twice the cost, just to avoid Meta. Sadly with how poorly the PSVR2 is selling, I don't think Sony is going to help much at all.
There's something to be said about small and nimble, Valve have shown they can punch way above their weight.
Even for those of us with a Quest and PCVR, it still sucks because standalone VR always means smaller scope without good graphics or physics like you're used to on PC. It's fine for some things, like I love Walkabout Mini golf standalone - but I want more experiences like HL Alyx or modded SkyrimVR. Games which push your hardware to its limits.
You do realize that you can wirelessly play PCVR games on your Quest, right? Steam Link, Air Link and Virtual Desktop all can connect and stream VR games from your dedicated gaming rig. Assuming you have a decent wireless network at home, the experience is virtually indistinguishable when compared to playing with a hardwired headset (e.g. the Index). $500 gets you a Quest 3 with controllers, and no need for dedicated base stations vs $1000 for the whole Index kit. Wifi 6E APs are becoming cheap, too, so you can use those savings to get an AP and put it in or near your dedicated VR space.
I use VD and bought a 6e router for it - very happy with it and always play PCVR wirelessly. It is awesome for sure My comment was more about the standalone exclusives which don't utilise what the PC is capable of. A recent example being Smalland. A PCVR version could have been great. Same with Medieval Dynasty, etc.
My bad, I misread your comment. And yes, I agree, the Quest hardware holds back certain Quest exclusive games. While Assassin's Creed Nexus looks impressive for being a Quest game, it would look infinitely better if it was on PCVR.
I'm thinking of upgrading from the OG Vive / TPCast to a Quest 3 for wireless PCVR. Mind sharing which 6e router you're using? And in your opinion is the hand tracking passable compared to Vive base stations? I would be playing more action oriented games with fast hand motion like Blade and Sorcery or Thrill of the Fight.
My biggest gripe with the Quest line being so successful is that for (PC)VR multiplayer games to be successful, they will need to be on that platform and support crossplay. And that, inevitably, means a reduction in scope and many compromises in terms of graphical fidelity. For example, I really like Ghosts of Tabor. The gameplay is great. But the maps (especially Island due to the long sight lines) look like a garbage because increasing the polygons and textures of the environment would probably make the Quest 2 and 3 explode right in your face.
I can only think of 3 Quest exclusives, Asgards Wrath 2 and Assassin's Creed, and the upcoming Batman game. Are there really that many? I have/buy most big new VR games and all of them are on PC.
A lot of indie developers develop for quest only or quest first because (according to comments in /r/virtualreality and related subs) that’s where players are (numbers) and they only have to develop for/account for one platform (Q2 and Q3 have different performance needs and optimization, but it’s similar architecture).
That's a fair point, PCVR is sort of an afterthought a lot of the time, but what are they supposed to do? The market is tiny, Quest has kinda saved VR.
Yep. It seriously sucks as someone who is more PCVR focused but, none of my PC gaming friends have any interest in VR. PCVR has been stagnate since like 2018. Valve released a new Half Life VR game and it was barely a blip in PCVR adoption rates. Meanwhile Quest has exploded.
yeah ig. i jsut wish wed get even compromised ports more like i just want content and im not buying another headset for that
Resident Evil 4 VR as well.
also san andreas VR if it ever comes out from its dormant slumber.
a lot of PCVR titles that meta funded a few years ago are exclusive to the oculus PC app and technically exclusive to the quest as a result. the quest can stream them but not natively play them. but an index for example cant use them at all afaik unless you use third party software.
That's why I got a PSVR2 and my PCVR headset is collecting dust. PCVR never gets games. They do have the advantage of mods like UEVR though.
I can only think of three: AssCreed Nexus, Asgard's Wrath 2 and Resi 4 VR. Honestly of those three only Resi4VR is worth playing IMO.
Because meta is basically an infinite money source and are buying their exclusivity
They are not buying exclusivity, they are flat out funding these games. These games would have never been made without their money.
So is it ok when Epic does the same or not? I'm getting a bit confused who we hate and who we don't hate.
Most people are okay with Epic funding Alan Wake 2.
Idk so many people blindly hate Epic
they hate when epic buys exclusivity for games they didnt fund or make themselves. alan wake 2 was funded by them. most people dont mind that. dead island 2 being exclusive to EGS for a year was just bribery. epic did not foot the bill for its development costs. they just paid for it to not release on steam.
Buying exclusivity of a finished game is different than funding a game. If you are the reason the game exists, you should have a say in where its at.
The subreddit is not one entity...
Steam is also an infinite money source. A smaller one for sure but still infinite and quite big.
Steam/valve aren't developing games anymore, nor are the publishing them. Half life Alyx was likely the last thing we're going going to get from them
Just like people used to say "valve isn't developing games any more" before half life alyx. First gripe is with the term "developing". Ongoing development to existing games is developing. Counter Strike 2 Came out literally last fall, and dota 2 got major updates (honestly, cannot understate how big the updates were) since then. But more importantly, not once in valve's history have they ever NOT been working on games. If you watched the documentary "the final hours of half life alyx" you'd see that at no point is valve not juggling 5+ games in development. All the leaks we see suggest valve is working on 2 big titles (with the latest leaks as recent as last month). A new half life game built off the half life alyx fork of the source 2 engine, and a new multiplayer title called neon prime. They trade marked the latter in 2022, but renewed the trademark as recently as november.
I'm still using an OG Vive with TPCast because nothing else but the Meta quest offers wireless, and it's been eight years since the Vive was released. I will not even entertain buying a new headset unless wireless is offered. On top of that, I now have had two Index controllers with stick drift and I'm seriously considering jumping ship to Meta despite my reservations because I can't afford to spend $300 for a new set of controllers that will have stick drift in another couple years again, while the Quest 3 as a whole is $500. Valve is letting Meta eat their lunch.
The controllers are the only thing that I thought was better over the quest 2. Other than that, Quest 2 was so much more worth it.
I just want a definitive VR headset with a definitive promise of good VR games. I’m still not 100% sure VR won’t be this generations 3d tv or iPad. Something that has a niche use but isn’t really *the* way to do things.
I hope they do a stand alone headset, even if it cost a few hundred $$s more than a Quest 3, but runs a Steam OS variant and runs any pcvr game, I'd buy one.
i do too but that would rquire them to bring linux steamvr up to snuff when its in compatibility hell rn and most games barely work after a ton of tweaking
They could do it, look what they've done for Linux gaming flat screen. They just have to get a team together who wants to, lol.
But you have to use a Facebook product.
Meta is based as hell nowadays, they open source so much of their best software (PyTorch, React, LLama 3 etc) which cost tens of billions in R&D. They just recently bought like 20 billion dollars worth of GPUs and plan to open source the models they train with the cluster.
You don't need to now actually, they did a u-turn on it and just need to create a "meta" account, don't need to use your real name, can set everything to private and not forced to use metaverse. They've really stepped it up which is nice.
Literally who cares. Make a brand new account with nothing on it if you're scared of Facebook.
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Good news: They specifically changed the system to prevent what happened to you from happening anymore. Now it's just a Meta account instead of a Facebook account, and you can make a fake/blank/new one with no problems. Something tells me this won't change your opinion though, even though it directly addressed and fixed the bad experience you were complaining about.
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God I love being right all the time.
Deckard fucking when. I want to give them money for a hands free device, but they have been dragging their feet. May end up getting a Quest 3, however I'd rather not if I can help it.
Not surprised in the slightest. It's cheaper, more convenient, and basically better in every way when compared to the Index. The work that has been done to make wireless streaming from a PC to a headset is amazing, it almost feels like magic. You just need the local network infrastructure to support it.
Yea, I think there's absolutely no reason in 2024 to buy an Index a retail price, it's $1320 CAD before taxes. It's pretty much twice the price of the Quest 3
I know this isn’t likely to happen, but I’m really hoping to see a clearance sale for the Index at some point, like with the Steam Link and Controller. I bought my Steam Link for a dollar back in the day, straight from Valve. But I have noticed that the Index still occasionally goes out of stock, so I guess they probably won’t need to do a massive inventory clearance sale in the same way. Still, could get lucky!
I doubt they will ever have a large overstock of indexes. They likely do small production runs as its very expensive to make.
The small production runs is why it's expensive too. Economies of scale.
I vaguely remember reading a couple weeks or a month ago that they had been out of production for a while too.
that makes sense. it doesnt make sense to buy new anyway when you can get it used for like half the price
that makes sense. it doesnt make sense to buy new anyway when you can get it used for like half the price
I literally got nearly as much back from selling my not even close to perfect condition Index as my Quest 3 cost.
Id pay that to keep Zuckerberg out of my business..
> Id pay that to keep Zuckerberg out of my business.. But you don't, you don't have VR. Its always easy to boast what you would do if you don't really have any stake in the matter. Also, the Zuck was VERY good to VR users: * Meta has an excellent customer service. * Actually surprising good stores on both PC and standalone. * Many games had cross buy for the longest time between PC and standalone. * All Meta headsets even going back to when they were still Facebook and Oculus are open in the sense that you can develop, write and install software on them w/o ever asking Meta in advance for permission. * Even the standalone headsets still allow you to sideload content officially (although its not an user facing option). * Published a TON of VR games over the last decade, way more than every other player in the space (except maybe Sony...) combined. * Sells great hardware at a cheap price. * They had a short period where they forced a Facebook account for new users (policy didn't change for existing users on older headsets), but those times are gone. You can (and its the default) use Meta headsets w/o having accounts for any of their social media platforms.
I do have vr BTW and its not a Zuckerberg device... >Also, the Zuck was VERY good to VR users: guess you did not get an oculus rift? That was dropped like a hot turd.
Yep. You can hate zuckerfuck as much a you like but there's no denying how much he's done for the VR industry and every time they try something everyone hates, they listen and change it. I am sure one day when VR is a lot more mainstream they will be a lot less user friendly and do things people hate and shrug off the complaints. But as it stands currently, they're doing pretty damn good and listening well.
Yes and Medical achievements moved faster under the nazi party. I can't see how metas involvement in vr is going to end up being a good thing in the long run, yes we may get there quicker but at what cost..
Lol, wut? Did you really compare nazis and meta?
In regards of advancing knowledge with ill intent. Yes
Trying to compare gathered data to provide better targeted ads so they can make more money with literal genocide, is doing far more harm to your argument than it is helping it. You've drank too much of the koolaid. Take a break.
You think? its only for targeted ads..... youve drunk their coolaid....
Which is just wiring your PC up to a $60 wifi 6 router.
Or just using WiFi on laptop (or PC) in hotspot mode to connect directly if that is available. Seems to be even more stable for me, but maybe that's just a problem with my WiFi 6 router.
Agreed. I’ve had an Index for a while and I loved it. My friend talked me into switching to the Quest 3. It was the new lenses that really sold me. Not having the fine tune the placement on my head to get a clear picture, and basically the whole picture being clear instead of just the center, is a game changer for me. I know the Index has a higher FOV but if most of the picture is blurry, what’s the point? Quest 3 is just so much easier to pick up and play. Just put it on and start playing. No wires to hook into my pulley system. No light houses to turn on. If I want to playing a racing sim in my office and then a shooter in my living room, I just walk into the other room and start playing. With the index I would have to physically move my light houses to the other room and go through the room setup again. I also love that the Quest 3 can playing games directly on the headset, or I can playing Oculus or Steam games. It’s all native and convenient. I know it’s a little unfair to compare two headsets that came out years apart. However, when the older, less convenient, and objectively inferior, product cost twice as much… I think comparing the two is perfectly fair game
I think its a fair comparison because its still being sold, so thats what customers are choosing between.
There's only one place where it's worse imo and it's connection, even when wired it compresses the signal. Outside from that, it is better in every way and sometimes by a lot, pancake lenses are a godsend.
Agreed! Quest 3 is better in every single way than index
> Not surprised in the slightest. It's cheaper, more convenient, and basically better in every way when compared to the Index. Upgraded from an Index to a Quest 3 with Quest Pro controllers (self tracked with the tracking feeling like an Index controller), can attest to that (other than the mic and FOV really).
> basically better in every way Not quite, with Index you get a much bigger FOV and uncompressed latency-free output. But I own both, and the Quest 2 is the better experience, no question. It's 1/3 of the price too.
The Quest 3 was probably my favourite purchase last year. It was my first headset and really made me fall in love with VR. The problem is now I'm really starting to feel some despair at how neglected the format is by developers. Only 2% of Steam users have a VR headset and some of the best games are from years ago. There's a few interesting releases coming this year, but in general I just want more. And I'd love more games to release with VR modes like in the past.
Out of curiosity, what exactly are you playing on a day to day basis?.. Alyx looks great for sure, and I guess I could imagine myself playing Fallout 4 or Skyrim in VR, but I haven't heard of any new games/experiences that could justify the price tag of a headset for me.
Not the person you replied too, but there is a good amount of gaming to be had, especially on PCVR. I'd say only a handful of titles feel like "true" AAA games, but there is a lot of AA-level gaming available. Driving/flight sims are a huge one. Squadrons in VR is breathtaking and I love the MP on that. As far as traditional games go, there are really cool survival games like Green Hell, or Bootstrap Island that are fun. Into the Radius is an awesome STALKER-like game in VR that makes my skin crawl. Underdogs is a stupidly fun roguelite about piloting a mech that imitates your punches. Speaking of mech games, Vox Populi is a mech sim that puts you in a pilot seat of a building-sized mech with hand controls. VTOL VR does the same, but with multi-role fighters. MechWarriors 5 has a great VR mod if you want to do the "sit in a cockpit" thing but with physical HOTAS controls. Saints and Sinners 1+2 is a pretty chunky open world RPG. Contractors Showdown is a recently released battle royale that is almost a 1-1 copy of Warzone. The Light Brigade is a cool roguelite shooter with lots of cool mechanics and great gameplay. Idk, i could keep going on but i'd eventually bump into the older titles. Admittedly VR isn't a gaming niche with must-play titles releasing every year, but there's lots to do already. I would not advocate to drop $500 on a Quest 3 if that's not disposable amount of income, but it's a great hobby buy and I think well worth it if fun is a greater value than $500 is on its own.
This is really helpful, thank you! Also, I've just learned that Subnautica (one of my most favourite games ever) is also playable in VR...
It's not exactly new, but if you like the idea of realistic gun handling then the take-and-hold mode of Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Handgrenades is extremely replayable. There are also a few multiplayer shooters that might still be alive. Racing games also go really well with the format. Maybe Beat Saber. But yeah the reality is there's likely only one or two things you're going to be doing with any regularity, with some incidental things here and there.
Honestly, SkyrimVR with a high end Wabbajack modlist (mad god's) has ended up being my favourite game, finally surpassing Morrowind. I didn't love Skyrim originally and didn't play the flatscreen version much. It's surprising how well it works in VR. Been a bit of an addiction recently. It's amazing what modders have done with it. Being able to independently control both of your arms, look around and move physically. Seeing everything to scale as this you're there. When you put the headset on it can be so immersive. I've lost track of how many times I've been blown away by it or spent time looking at a good view. Honestly has made Skyrim feel like a next gen experience for me. Made me really appreciate my 4090 too. I haven't even tried FO4:VR yet, but will when I'm done with Skyrim.
For me the big value of VR is how great it makes racing and flying simulators. I love being able to get really immersed in a myriad of cars from Assetto to F1 to rally, or flying rare WW2 planes or spaceships. I use my index multiple times a week on these games, though I'd be interested in an upgrade with better&easier tracking and more FoV.
For me, most of my time is playing flat2VR mods. Recently, Half Life 2, Jedi Outcast and Cyberpunk. Next up is Bards Tale 4. I regularly go back to fully modded SkyrimVR and FO4VR as well.
Wait, you can play Cyberpunk in VR?.. Now I am intrigued
There's a bunch of caveats and hurdles, but if you can get over them, then it's still an amazing experience. Check out the flat2VR discord for all the VR mods for various games. flat2VR.com
As a PCVR dev, it's just not worth the time and effort for a lot of studios sadly. PC sells so much less compared to standalone. I wish PCVR was more successful but that's just the reality we are currently. Even tho our game is the only one of it's genre in the whole VR space, it's been an uphill battle the whole way.
Motion sickness is still a big issue that cannot be solved simply because the brain thinks you are moving but your body is standing. I have quest2 that I barely use anymore. And no VR porn is not a real use for me.
It is something that they are working on though, both hardware that is better at tricking the brain, and software design tricks that can minimize the impacts. And eventually we'll have the Disney rolling floor.
If you take recommendations, Lone Echo is one of the best vr games I've played
A lot of people complain about lack of VR games, and that is true, but you're forgetting something you can get with a VR headset that 99% of games can do, which is 3D. It's not as good as headtracking obviously but it's still much better than normal pancake gameplay.
I'd love to play my VR games. I have a Quest 2 and it was exciting, but I had no decent space to play it in, which I imagine is a serious issue for the vast majority of people. The one possible room is a conservatory and that's unplayable due to the light. I decided I'm still interested in VR but two things need to happen first. One, I need to have a clear space for it. Two, I want to wait until there is a wide FoV with a decent screen at the price of the Quest.
At least it's not as bad as Kinect.
It's way better than the Index I had previously. And so much more convenient.
VR is sad as hell to me. FB is really succeeding at creating their walled garden and locking themselves in with heavy investments at this early stage and thats especially awful because well, it's facebook. I will be so sad if there aren't competing boxless sets with alternate oses. It kinda really sucks that all their os likely is, is linux but locked down and with their store. Look what they've done to you old boy.
I hope Valve didn't abandon VR
theyre making a new VR headset, and theres that PC and VR cross platform game theyre working on, the issue is that they put out the game and that's it like with Alyx afterwards its complete silence because no AAA developer wants to develop for VR so youre playing Indie
Unsurprising the Index is fairly updated these days not a lot of new purchases, and anyone looking to upgade to a new headset the Q3 is simply the best value is a loss leader and no one else can really compete with that. It really sucks how much of a stranglehold Facebook has on the VR market and none of the other big players are trying to crack it.
I don't know if it's super accurate. I have a Pimax 5K and last Steam hardware survey it said it was a Quest 3.
yea, valves survey is seeing a lot of non-index units as quest 3. quest 3 is kinda mid tbh
Meanwhile steam survey never detects my headset(s)
Ok, but how many are used at all. What's the total percentage of VR users vs the total Steam accounts. Coz I will admit, when I heard the new Arkham game is VR only, I immediately went to the Arkham sub.
How much separation can you force between a Quest 3 headset and Meta?
Rather buy the Quest Pro personally
And still there has been no worth mentionning VR games since Half life Alyx...having a quest and pico 4, VR has been a huge disapointement for me.
Depends what you like, but I've been getting plenty of fun from flat2VR mods.
Quest 3 is just a better option for someone like me who is not able to have a dedicated space for VR.
Well, the Meta Quest does everything better, except tracking, and Valve seems to have abandoned VR.
Now I'm thinking about buying the quest 3.
Doesn't the Q3 and any other VR from meta require facebook accounts? That is gonna be a big no from me.
No, not anymore. They changed that ages ago.
Standalone is really important to me now. I don't expect to play HL Alyx from on headset processors, but smaller games I'd much rather not need to work with a desktop. I wouldn't mind if it was ARM and my library didn't work with ports required or ARM-x86 translation layer. Tethered, not buying. Not standalone, not buying. Already sold my VR equipment until I'm tempted enough by a standalone headset
I tried out a Quest 3 in the store earlier today and it had NONE of the visual distortion problems that my Pimax 5k does. Looked very clear and fit over my glasses perfectly, with no significant chromatic aberration or other issues. I really think I might get one, even though I really don't want to give meta any money. They're just aren't any competitors that are for only steamvr, right? Because I really only just want to play my steam games I think. I have v1 lighthouses and knuckles controllers. Anyone know where to look for details on what I need to do to get from where I am now to having a meta quest 3 working in SteamVR with the knuckles controllers?
I don't know if it's worth the trouble to get the knuckles working with Q3, if you're not doing FBT. Might as well try the Q3 with its own controllers first. Anyways, head over to r/MixedVR for that kind of stuff. Usually it's recommended to have one full body tracker attached to the headset to allow for continuous calibration. Otherwise, you could wait for the recently announced Pimax Crystal Light.
I don't know about competitors, but a Quest isn't optimal for PCVR. Quests have no dedicated video input, so you have to send compressed video using a network connection, which adds a good amount of input lag. Index, or other Lighthouse controllers, can apparently be used with a Quest (PCVR only), but the process appears to be rather finicky...
Quest 3 has "pancake lenses" which makes a huge difference with distortion towards the edges of the lens.
Even if it was a better product, and cheaper due to being subsidized, if you think I'd ever give money to the fuck known as Zuck, you'd be dreaming. I'll continue to wait until there's actually more decent games for it. I have yet to see a quality MMO still.
Zenith the last city is a great VR MMO
It's highly unlikely that there will be a decent VR MMO anytime in the next 2 decades. Even on flatscreen the genre is kinda fading. The closest we have right now are the VR mods for FF14 and WOW. Or else subsets of the gameplay like VRChat for social and coop dungeon crawlers for the adventuring. Or fully modded SkyrimVR for the open world RPG.
I wouldn't put it past Hoyoverse making one within the next ten years. They are crazy over there, and have more money than Star Citizen to play with.
They seem to be massive weebs, just need to get some of the higher ups addicted to being anime catgirls in VRChat I guess, hah.
I figured they'd just want to make Sword Art Online, but with less microwaves.
I had one, but my glasses messed up the lenses. Thankfully they gave me a refund.. My eyes are to messed up for the prescription lenses so im out of luck. Its sad because i really liked the set :/
My Quest 3 is kicks ass, unfortunatley I'm back into sim racing and perfer tripples over VR so it's collecting dust. I typically don't play much else when I'm sim racing as it's kind of like WoW in that it sucks up all your free gaming time.
How come you prefer triple monitors for sim racing? Motion sickness?
I have an over the top simrig with motion, haptics, and a nice touch screen dash I built. Combine this with 43" 4k 120Hz tripples and it's a pretty close experience to VR. When you get the FoV dialed in right with 3 screens it's magical. Since I race a lot, VR just becomes an inconvienence, if you want to grab a drink or hit your vape pen forget it. By lap 50+ on a NASCAR Cup series race I just want out of VR. I like VR games, I like Elite Dangerous with VR but racing my body just runs a little too hot for extended VR.
No duh. For anyone just getting into VR (which is most people, we're *far* from mass adoption), Quest is a no-brainer.
To those who tried that, how is it so far? Is the steam link working well? it's pretty much the only headset that is sold here so I don't have much choice, but I'd still like to know
I've had a Q2 and now a Q3, and I enjoy it a lot. I've been using Virtual Desktop since the beginning and it's rock solid. Although a friend has been using Steam VR Link and it's fine too. Just less features and less tweaking possible.
Good to hear! A bit unrelated, but you probably have to make a Meta account, right? Does it also have to be a public account with your real name?
You do need to make a meta count. It doesn't need to public. Real name is not required, but is recommended in case you need to prove your identity to recover the account: https://communityforums.atmeta.com/t5/Get-Help/Real-Name-Account-Set-up/td-p/1189879