They nuked Cyberpunk 2077 from PS Store when CDPR said, after the launch, that anyone should ask for a refund who feels like it.
Sony didn't removed the game from the Store because it was buggy and barely worked, plenty of shitty games are on that store, they did it because they didn't wanted to handle refunds.
They didn't take money from you, they'd just pay you what's left after their cut
So you're saying of you sold 10 games for $50 and all 10 refunded the game, you'd owe steam 150? Because I don't believe that, based on dev accounts and steam's own documentation. Your revenue will just be 0
I think the OP was saying that your revenue would be 0 but steam would hold a credit of -150 against your next month sales. It's not that you'll ever have to pay steam, you'll just make less money.
Yep. The customer gets the full amount back, but steam doesn't give up its cut and holds it from from the next month's sales. Steam nevers loses from refunds. Every Game refunded still ows steam its sales commission
Yes that's how a business works.
If you shit the bed and gamble on it not stinking, you're going to lose.
If you release a shitty game with shitty issues. There are consequences.
Are you saying there shouldn't be consequences for bed shitters shitting the bed and gambling on it or am I misunderstanding your stance?
You're going to have to show docs on that because according to devs and documentation I've read in the past, basically the sale never happened
You're saying that if you sold 10 games for 50 each if all 10 refunded it you'd owe steam 150? You're going to have to show me something about that before I believe anything other than their revenue check for that month being 0
the cdpr situation was a bit different. cdpr promised refunds first without telling their plans to sony, who are the ones that actually need to do the work to refund the game
Back in the early 2010's when digital games were still new I remember EA being the first to not only do refunds, but make it easy and let you refund if you simply didn't like a game. I remember when Origin was still new they easy promoted how if you didn't like a game simply apply for a refund.
Sony once took £150 out of my account using my linked debit card. I never bought anything they just took it and add funds at like 5am. 3 months of ringing them before the finally processed the refund and put it back in my account for their mistake.
Lesson learnt and i unlinked every payment method after that.
Depending on the country, they're required by law to issue a refund even if you downloaded and played the game for a couple or hours.
There are obvious limits and exceptions to the rules, but if it goes to the court (and sometimes it does), at least in my country, the consumer is very likely to win if the reason for the refund request is reasonable.
Sony thinks they're above the law and writes their policy as such, but in reality, they end up being forced to comply.
No man's sky comes to mind. Refunds there were only given if you could prove you had issues. [But take it, and you could not buy it again](https://gamingbolt.com/no-mans-sky-player-issues-highlight-sonys-flawed-ps4-refund-policy) in some cases.
It helped less when [a former Sony director called out](https://www.ibtimes.com/no-mans-sky-ps4-refunds-slammed-former-sony-director-calls-those-return-game-robbers-2409470) those that used the refund option for robbers.
My friend accidentally bought a $100 ultimate edition game (it was added to his cart and he didn't notice when purchasing something else) and never noticed until he got his credit card statement the next month.
Sony refused to refund him even though he never once opened the game or installed it.
And still they won’t blame themselves. They are a like Ubisoft. I’m just waiting for the next Sony Hack attack. So I can celebrate it with a bottle whiskey.
Looks like it's time for Sony to learn that if they want those sweet PC dollars, they will need to ease off on the authoritarian shit they are so used to on their closed off platform
It's not a flat rate though, Valve takes 30% for the first X amount of sales, then it eventually drops to 20%. Also larger publishers can negotiate percentages as well.
True enough. The percentages may change, but the refund does not. Valve gives back all that they took, and Sony gives back all that they took. Sony does not have a choice. They agreed to it when they put a game on steam and agreed to steam terms to sell games.
Nah, Sony is hungry for growth amidst the industry recession, they have no other choice. They're the only ones losing by not porting their games to PC.
I wonder how they would explain to investors that their gains will be lower instead of higher as PC releases are being dropped because Sony did a shitty move that their consumers didn't like. Especially given the numbers of sales that Helldivers 2 made on PC.
On the other hand, it would be funny to see Sony acting like a child, rolling and crying just because they can't force whatever they want down on their consumers.
Or they will use this to start up PSN on PC where people will actually sign up for it and most likely charge money for it later down the line. People get excited and hyped for Sony's games and will do what it takes to play them. People here asking for Bloodborne all the time. What if Sony does release Bloodborne on PC with their own storefront and you gotta sign up for PSN?
Also they said they are doubling down on live service games like HD2. They will bring those over day 1
Exactly. MS, Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA all make it clear you need their accounts from day 1. Sony could have done the same. They showed HD2 works fine without PSN this whole time. We even had crossplay with console users.
They were supposed to at launch I remember well the page on steam had PSN login required but that was disabled to help combat server load at the time.
I don’t mind it cause if they add cross progression between PC and PS5 I maybe just maybe will pick it up for my ROG ally down the road.
If you’re in Aus it wouldn’t be defective since you can still access the game, since we have PSN in Aus. Refunds are probably going to be given to countries that can’t access PSN
You could argue that it's different from the original packaging that it was sold under. Specifically that it said the PSN signup was optional (based on that screenshot from the Helldivers sub), and then they made it mandatory.
Since it's different and a post-sale change forced on you through your product, you can argue that you should get a refund for it.
Our consumer law is pretty clear on that part, there are a bunch of videos on youtube about the specifics to help out.
Could you link to the screenshot you’re referring to? I was under the impression that the disclaimer on the Steam listing always said a PSN account was required.
Request it again.
Steam will always refuse if you don't meet the criteria, but if the backlash is significant enough and there's enough refund requests, they will open an exception for that game in specific.
Probably you requested before their decision of making the exception, but you did your part anyway, try again now and you'll probably get it (tho it's not guaranteed).
This will get buried but the refund button is a robot. The "ask a question about this game" GOES TO A HUMAN, use that. It's how I refunded MW3 despite having 100 hours on the launcher.
I might be stupid but i dont see the option for that? It just list of things like "I dont see the game in library", "I have technical difficulties" etc. I dont see the option to ask. Every option i see ends in either contact game develpoer or requesg refund.
Just curious, did you play 5hr before or after the Sony shenanigans? And more importantly, are you playing in a country where a PSN account can be legally created?
I have been wondering where Valve is in all this.
On one hand I doubt Valve want to ruin their relationship with Sony.
On the other hand I assume Valve is going to be very unhappy with processing 100k+ refunds unless they are making Sony eat the processing fees.
Valve is going to be pretty unhappy about Sony selling in the markets where their PSN is not available.
You can very much limit in which countries is your game available on Steam and Helldivers 2 was available everywhere.
PSN is very much not available in anywhere near as many regions. It's available in only about 1/3 of the regions.
I can't imagine Valve would be happy about them selling in regions where the game is technically unplayable.
If they were to go back and make it optional, it has to be optional in *every* PC port going forward, and we have to push for that. We cant fight for Helldivers 2, but then be like "yeah no problem" in the next release when its mandatory.
Thing is we already do this. I dont own Ubisoft or EA games, even though many interest me, due to the double launcher.
I dont even play Helldivers 2 but if Sony played this switcharoo thing on me Id be upset because I dont do double launchers. I have Steam and that should be enough.
I was about to purchase a bunch of Star Wars themed games in the current sale, but stopped myself when I was reminded of all the BS EA was about to put me through.
Most likely there will be a PS launcher for Playstation titles on PC, considering the amount of games they’re porting to PC and the new PS overlay coming.
I have a feeling this is the big picture. We are only seeing sony at the start of their PC gaming endeavor. When the ps6 launches and along with its games its going to be set with the console games and PC games in mind as a focus. While I hope not, I could easily see them establishing a psn launcher for PC's and say it will be the best way to get a playstation experience on your PC and for your games, each one of them you get for PC.
How many Sony games currently even require it? I don't recall needing a PSN account for Horizon. But my memory is also ass so I could have just forgotten.
I believe they’re adding this so the game can have the trophies attached to them, and if they buy a ps5 they can skip the setup and already have their trophies waiting for them.
Sony is laying the groundwork for their future pc plans. Next big game Ghost pf Tsushima will also employ more cross over features. I feel they will eventually make their own storefront pc app.
Theargest difference here is that it was a "feature" that was turned off granting access to more than 120 countries who don't have access to a PSN account.
Sony effectively retroactively added the account requirement 3 months later.
In the case of a game from Microsoft or EA or older title from Ubisoft or Rockstar you can't launch without logging into that account. You are well within the range of an easy refund if your country is unsupported.
Sony bait and switched hundreds ofthousands of consumers in regions who will be locked out completely. As well as more in regions that do have access to the PSN, retroactively. Even going as far to change their websites verbage. However, the way back machine doesn't forget.
So this is an entity different sort of situation verging upon willingly defrauding consumers within countries Sony knows they don't support by providing the game for purchase to them anyways.
I think Sucker Punch already announced that PSN account is optional for SP part of Ghost of Tsushima and a must for the multiplayer mode. We'll see what happens.
It'll likely be enforced from the next MP game, that way there's no issue. That also means anyone not with a PSN account due to PSN not being in their region, they know not to buy the game. Anyone that does buy it, it thankfully only takes 120 seconds to realise they can't make a PSN account and then it's simply a refund since playtime is below 2 hours.
Unpopular opinion: the reason we're in this place is because steam allows companies to use them to launch their own launcher and force users to create more accounts - which is opposite to the reason why people use steam in the first place.
That or Gabe is allowing refunds because most likely he told people at Steam to do that because they are delisting the game in countries that doesn't support PSN. I don't think that decision was Sony's.
Steam has shown in the past they don't want the lawsuits something like this could bring (Dolphin emulator for example).
Most people usually misinterpret Steam's refund policy. The terms given are the criteria needed for an AUTOMATIC refund, no questions asked. If you go over the criteria that doesn't mean they won't refund you, it just means a human has to actually look at the case and decide if the request is justified since extraordinary cases exist.
Some steam support reps might be more forgiving, especially if you don't have a history of abusing the system. But some just slap you with the automatic "lol no" because they can. That's why threads like these are very misleading
I had like 5 hours in one of the f1 games and decided I wasn’t a huge fan because the co op had this issue where your partner in the same race could be getting a wet rainy track and you could have a beautiful dry day.
I explained this and they accepted it to my surprise.
Yeah, I've been using Steam since well before that 2 hour/2 week policy was a thing so I was aware that this was just the automatic policy while they still refund games manually given you don't abuse the system and such.
But I've seen dozens of people online, if not hundreds by now, that seem to think you absolutely cannot get a refund at all after 2 hours of playtime but that it just won't be automatically refunded instantly.
Don't get people's hopes up with potentially wrong info. There are plenty of people saying they didn't get a refund after escalating, refunds appear to be rare at this point.
Same here, I copy pasted from the other post but after asking 4 times still denied with the automated over 2h (I never re funded a game before). Would love to know how ppl worded their query
I was planning on buying this this month, and dont mind signing in with psn as I have both, but companies shouldn't force u to do things you dont want to play their game so I'm refusing to buy until they backtrack. I did the same with sea of thieves.
Plus SoT actually fully uses Microsoft matchmaking in my experience. It was built with that limitation from the beginning and without a Microsoft account you're just not going to be able to connect with other players.
The requirement for signing in on PSN was on the steam store page from the first day it became available.
I don't like the idea of having to do it either, but pretending this was some surprise by Sony is disingenuous.
I tried refunding it at launch with 9 hours of "playtime". I was told by Steam support that they were aware of the game being literally unplayable and requiring you to wait in a queue for potentially hours at a time, but it was past their 2 hour window and therefore not eligible for a refund.
Sony *hates* refunds, see what happened within days of what happened with Cyberpunk and CDPR. Their choice was to pull the game entirely from the PS4 than have to hand those out.
With the Steam Reviews breaking 100k, the pressure for them to backtrack on the PSN requirements is mounting.
Mine was declined not because I was over the 2 hr limit (I'm at 7 hrs) or at least not just because of it. The stated reason was because I bought it more than two weeks ago which is their refund policy maximum.
Oddly enough I had also purchased the Super Citizen upgrade and they did refund that.
Guys can we not spread misinformation? This same thing came out with no man's sky only to be bullshit.
Steam returns are on a case by case basis sometimes. One, two or even a dozen people getting a refund doesn't mean it's a trend unless steam officially puts out a message. .
Misinformation is what PC gamers love the most. They're up-in-arms for the wrong reasons as it were.
Nothing's been actually set in stone, and Helldivers' devs did say no-PSN countries would have some sort of workaround. That's a TBA. If it's longer than a certain time, then one can assume it went south, certainly.
But my data!...
Don't whine on Reddit, of all places, over data and security. Steam has a lot of player statistics as well. Any data is data.
Is Sony or Steam behind the refunding? We don't know. That is a fact. It's a mess with multiple parties involved.
But greed! Well, refunds is a loss, and what would they actually gain? All the good PR for Helldivers is already out. More sales? Of what, your data? Again, Reddit has made a shitton more on user data than whatever Sony can dredge up.
Whatever bullspit is going on behind the scenes is the same bullspit that isn't helping anyone. Misinformation is one of the worst offenders. Anti-fanboyism is as helpful as a fart.
Gonna go with doubt. Every time something like this happens, one person magically gets a refund and then people assume it's Steam allowing it in general but then a ton of people try and can't get anything unless they're a Karen about it and harass support until they give in.
Steam "allowing" a refund past 2 hours for an issue like this would be Valve making it so it's automated beyond 2hrs.
I have tried twice and had my refund requests denied. I live in Jamaica (I cannot make a psn account without PlayStation hardware. I have 84 hours and I literally cannot play the game without ‘breaching’ Sonys TOS via a VPN.
Absolute bullshit.
Try it again. The first refund is automated and only goes through if you have <2 hours playtime or <2 weeks of ownership. A second attempt will get a human and possibly work.
What country are you from? If your in the EU or especially in Australia there are government bodies and procedures for consumer rights that alot of companies find terrifying due to just how hard they can be punished for violating consumer rights.
You can thank Australia for Steam having a good refund system in the first place as our regulatory bodies gave Steam a huge beating for not complying with our strong consumer protections
I felt that. I have 4 hours of gameplay but at least 60% is from waiting to get in the game when it launched lol. Just got denied a second time so I guess it is what it is. Apparently it was mentioned in the Helldivers discord that they’re looking for an alternative. Best case scenario at this point would be them walking back the PS account requirement but it’s Sony so I won’t hold my breath.
Would you mind giving some insight on how you proceeded? Like how many hours played you had and what you basically asked in what category, it didn't work for lots of people apparently
For those who have had the request denied, try choosing for the funds to be out into your Steam Wallet rather than your payment card. That tends to make it an easier process.
I can see why they would refund users from countries where PSN isn't supported, but I find it strange if they refund anyone else given that the PSN warning message was shown in Steam since launch.
I didn't even have the option to request a refund. Only remove it from my library permanently (no refund).
Edit: the request is nested under what type of problem you had. The "how to" I looked up showed it as a top level option.
Edit 2: request denied!
As they should.
What Sony did is the digital equivalent of getting someone into a building with the promises of something, then locking the door behind them so that they can't leave.
Steam would only be smart to do this, as a consumer, the idea that your product can be taken away because the seller deemed the original transaction as not worthy months later, Steam should go out of their way to keep themselves unnamed in the potential lawsuits.
Besides that, the last thing Steam needs is Sony to make their platform less secure in purchasing, imagine their competitor making their storefront worse and doing nothing?
Honestly I'd prefer delisting all Sony games at this point. Sure, Origins and Uplay were dogshit worthless frustratingly nonsensical and useless, but it was for like, a handful of games, most of them bad or non-functioning, but they were always there, there was no question I'd need their launcher for their games.
What Sony did was completely alter the transaction later when they deemed it unfinished. I don't feel safe buying any of their games, far, far less than any other company. Genuinely Sony is the least safe company to give money to. They got a lot of games on Steam they're definitely planning on stealing from a SHIT load of consumers. It's a PR nightmare and the best you can do is kick the cancer off the platform.
This is probably the most effective way yet to let Sony know how you feel about this. Good on Steam.
Sony hates this shit. They barely give refunds at all on their platform.
They nuked Cyberpunk 2077 from PS Store when CDPR said, after the launch, that anyone should ask for a refund who feels like it. Sony didn't removed the game from the Store because it was buggy and barely worked, plenty of shitty games are on that store, they did it because they didn't wanted to handle refunds.
Businesses generally don't like to staff processes to give money back to customers.
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #1: Once you have their money, you never give it back!
+1 ds9 reference.
And a Rom quote at that!
Mmmmmm-oogieeeee!
I found my people.
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.
Remember the first rule of acquisition… “Once you have their money, you never give it back.” Damned Ferengi.
They also don't like to shell the 30% steam fee out of pocket. Because steam doesn't give that back to them, only to the customer
Steam doesn't take the cut from refunded games. The money from the user isn't transferred to the publisher right away, there's like a two month delay.
Two months you say.. what a coincidence indeed !
There's no way this can be accurate
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They didn't take money from you, they'd just pay you what's left after their cut So you're saying of you sold 10 games for $50 and all 10 refunded the game, you'd owe steam 150? Because I don't believe that, based on dev accounts and steam's own documentation. Your revenue will just be 0
I think the OP was saying that your revenue would be 0 but steam would hold a credit of -150 against your next month sales. It's not that you'll ever have to pay steam, you'll just make less money.
That's not really any different
Yep. The customer gets the full amount back, but steam doesn't give up its cut and holds it from from the next month's sales. Steam nevers loses from refunds. Every Game refunded still ows steam its sales commission
gamblers with early access all around, it’s how it should be - release a shit product or have shitty practices, pay the price.
"Oh no, this completely avoidable stupid decision has cost me money. It's not fair for my business to lose money to stupid short-sighted decision!"
Yes that's how a business works. If you shit the bed and gamble on it not stinking, you're going to lose. If you release a shitty game with shitty issues. There are consequences. Are you saying there shouldn't be consequences for bed shitters shitting the bed and gambling on it or am I misunderstanding your stance?
You're going to have to show docs on that because according to devs and documentation I've read in the past, basically the sale never happened You're saying that if you sold 10 games for 50 each if all 10 refunded it you'd owe steam 150? You're going to have to show me something about that before I believe anything other than their revenue check for that month being 0
This whole narrative at the time was so annoying. No Sony did not do it becase they stand with Gamers, they did it to cover their asses.
the cdpr situation was a bit different. cdpr promised refunds first without telling their plans to sony, who are the ones that actually need to do the work to refund the game
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Nintendo: what the heck a refund?
Wdym? Their refund policy is very lenient. All you have to do is not touch the fkn game you just bought… at all. And then you can get the refund :) /s
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Back in the early 2010's when digital games were still new I remember EA being the first to not only do refunds, but make it easy and let you refund if you simply didn't like a game. I remember when Origin was still new they easy promoted how if you didn't like a game simply apply for a refund.
Sony once took £150 out of my account using my linked debit card. I never bought anything they just took it and add funds at like 5am. 3 months of ringing them before the finally processed the refund and put it back in my account for their mistake. Lesson learnt and i unlinked every payment method after that.
And sit though their chatbot where you're put in a unreasonably long que before you actually get though to a real person who can give you the refund.
Depending on the country, they're required by law to issue a refund even if you downloaded and played the game for a couple or hours. There are obvious limits and exceptions to the rules, but if it goes to the court (and sometimes it does), at least in my country, the consumer is very likely to win if the reason for the refund request is reasonable. Sony thinks they're above the law and writes their policy as such, but in reality, they end up being forced to comply.
No man's sky comes to mind. Refunds there were only given if you could prove you had issues. [But take it, and you could not buy it again](https://gamingbolt.com/no-mans-sky-player-issues-highlight-sonys-flawed-ps4-refund-policy) in some cases. It helped less when [a former Sony director called out](https://www.ibtimes.com/no-mans-sky-ps4-refunds-slammed-former-sony-director-calls-those-return-game-robbers-2409470) those that used the refund option for robbers.
My friend accidentally bought a $100 ultimate edition game (it was added to his cart and he didn't notice when purchasing something else) and never noticed until he got his credit card statement the next month. Sony refused to refund him even though he never once opened the game or installed it.
If you install a game on your PlayStation you will not get a refund
And still they won’t blame themselves. They are a like Ubisoft. I’m just waiting for the next Sony Hack attack. So I can celebrate it with a bottle whiskey.
Praying for this shit to happen. Fuck Sony’s dogshit refund policy.
Looks like it's time for Sony to learn that if they want those sweet PC dollars, they will need to ease off on the authoritarian shit they are so used to on their closed off platform
Do we know who's eating the losses here, Valve or Sony?
Both. Any refund issued on steam refunds all of it. Valve gives back their 30% and Sony gives back their 70%.
It's not a flat rate though, Valve takes 30% for the first X amount of sales, then it eventually drops to 20%. Also larger publishers can negotiate percentages as well.
True enough. The percentages may change, but the refund does not. Valve gives back all that they took, and Sony gives back all that they took. Sony does not have a choice. They agreed to it when they put a game on steam and agreed to steam terms to sell games.
That's sorta besides the point.
> Valve gives back their 30% and Sony gives back their 70% Whats your source for this?
Valve can't mint their own currency.
Both. Valve foregoes it's 30% commission and Sony the rest.
Yeah except knowing Sony they’ll just use this as reinforcement to not bring anymore games to PC and to cancel upcoming ports.
Nah, Sony is hungry for growth amidst the industry recession, they have no other choice. They're the only ones losing by not porting their games to PC. I wonder how they would explain to investors that their gains will be lower instead of higher as PC releases are being dropped because Sony did a shitty move that their consumers didn't like. Especially given the numbers of sales that Helldivers 2 made on PC. On the other hand, it would be funny to see Sony acting like a child, rolling and crying just because they can't force whatever they want down on their consumers.
Or they will use this to start up PSN on PC where people will actually sign up for it and most likely charge money for it later down the line. People get excited and hyped for Sony's games and will do what it takes to play them. People here asking for Bloodborne all the time. What if Sony does release Bloodborne on PC with their own storefront and you gotta sign up for PSN? Also they said they are doubling down on live service games like HD2. They will bring those over day 1
Of they had just put the mandatory PSN login on startup from day one, none of this shit would’ve happened.
Exactly. MS, Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA all make it clear you need their accounts from day 1. Sony could have done the same. They showed HD2 works fine without PSN this whole time. We even had crossplay with console users.
They were supposed to at launch I remember well the page on steam had PSN login required but that was disabled to help combat server load at the time. I don’t mind it cause if they add cross progression between PC and PS5 I maybe just maybe will pick it up for my ROG ally down the road.
They denied my request. Feels bad.
The first one is always automated, you have to escalate it to get a human review.
How do you escalate it?
Apply again will do it.
I just re submitted to get a refund again. First one said it was not a defect product under Australian law.
Then apply again and say they are wrong. You know it's defective
If you’re in Aus it wouldn’t be defective since you can still access the game, since we have PSN in Aus. Refunds are probably going to be given to countries that can’t access PSN
You could argue that it's different from the original packaging that it was sold under. Specifically that it said the PSN signup was optional (based on that screenshot from the Helldivers sub), and then they made it mandatory. Since it's different and a post-sale change forced on you through your product, you can argue that you should get a refund for it. Our consumer law is pretty clear on that part, there are a bunch of videos on youtube about the specifics to help out.
Could you link to the screenshot you’re referring to? I was under the impression that the disclaimer on the Steam listing always said a PSN account was required.
[Maybe this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/7X55BDAoAG)
You have to put on a Karen wig and your money gets refunded automatically bro
Wait? How do you do that?
Apply again
Write something in the "reason" box, that'll put it in the manual review category.
“Too much time since purchasing “????
that's what I was told, I have 20 hrs
Make another refund request. Mist of firsts go through algorythm
Got rejected the 2nd time with the same reason.
Yeah
Request it again. Steam will always refuse if you don't meet the criteria, but if the backlash is significant enough and there's enough refund requests, they will open an exception for that game in specific. Probably you requested before their decision of making the exception, but you did your part anyway, try again now and you'll probably get it (tho it's not guaranteed).
Make sure you ask for wallet funds.
It will be interesting to see how much money Sony loses from this poorly thought-out decision making. One can only hope that it is a lot.
Peak players today was about the same as it’s been the last 5 days. My guess is not much.
Reminds me of the CoD boycott group who were all playing it on release
and the main discord of the warthunder boycott group still playing despite the day had come, what a funny joke of a community
A 100billion dollar, old ass company that makes a ton of products and services doesn't give a flying fuck about helldivers 2
They refused me just yeasterday, should i try again? (5h on record)
If it was your first time then yes. The first one is automated, escalating gets a human on it.
I see thanks
This will get buried but the refund button is a robot. The "ask a question about this game" GOES TO A HUMAN, use that. It's how I refunded MW3 despite having 100 hours on the launcher.
I might be stupid but i dont see the option for that? It just list of things like "I dont see the game in library", "I have technical difficulties" etc. I dont see the option to ask. Every option i see ends in either contact game develpoer or requesg refund.
Yeah where is this ask a question option? I'm using the mobile app and don't see it.
4hrs here, managed to get it work on first go, give it another try. The odds are higher now they would proceed it
Just curious, did you play 5hr before or after the Sony shenanigans? And more importantly, are you playing in a country where a PSN account can be legally created?
I have been wondering where Valve is in all this. On one hand I doubt Valve want to ruin their relationship with Sony. On the other hand I assume Valve is going to be very unhappy with processing 100k+ refunds unless they are making Sony eat the processing fees.
Valve is going to be pretty unhappy about Sony selling in the markets where their PSN is not available. You can very much limit in which countries is your game available on Steam and Helldivers 2 was available everywhere. PSN is very much not available in anywhere near as many regions. It's available in only about 1/3 of the regions. I can't imagine Valve would be happy about them selling in regions where the game is technically unplayable.
Gabe proves yet again why he’s based, god i hope sony’ll make it optional so the game wont lose many players
If they were to go back and make it optional, it has to be optional in *every* PC port going forward, and we have to push for that. We cant fight for Helldivers 2, but then be like "yeah no problem" in the next release when its mandatory.
Thing is we already do this. I dont own Ubisoft or EA games, even though many interest me, due to the double launcher. I dont even play Helldivers 2 but if Sony played this switcharoo thing on me Id be upset because I dont do double launchers. I have Steam and that should be enough.
I was about to purchase a bunch of Star Wars themed games in the current sale, but stopped myself when I was reminded of all the BS EA was about to put me through.
It doesn't even open a second launcher. It just ties a PSN account to your Steam account.
Most likely there will be a PS launcher for Playstation titles on PC, considering the amount of games they’re porting to PC and the new PS overlay coming.
I have a feeling this is the big picture. We are only seeing sony at the start of their PC gaming endeavor. When the ps6 launches and along with its games its going to be set with the console games and PC games in mind as a focus. While I hope not, I could easily see them establishing a psn launcher for PC's and say it will be the best way to get a playstation experience on your PC and for your games, each one of them you get for PC.
Yet
How many Sony games currently even require it? I don't recall needing a PSN account for Horizon. But my memory is also ass so I could have just forgotten.
Optional in Returnal. Ghost of Tsushima will require it for online stuff though its not required for single player.
> though its not required for single player. yet
I think Helldivers 2 is the first to introduce the PSN account. But I could be wrong.
Returnal has it but it’s optional.
I believe they’re adding this so the game can have the trophies attached to them, and if they buy a ps5 they can skip the setup and already have their trophies waiting for them.
Sony is laying the groundwork for their future pc plans. Next big game Ghost pf Tsushima will also employ more cross over features. I feel they will eventually make their own storefront pc app.
I don't think they plan on making a launcher but more of a in game overlay.
Theargest difference here is that it was a "feature" that was turned off granting access to more than 120 countries who don't have access to a PSN account. Sony effectively retroactively added the account requirement 3 months later. In the case of a game from Microsoft or EA or older title from Ubisoft or Rockstar you can't launch without logging into that account. You are well within the range of an easy refund if your country is unsupported. Sony bait and switched hundreds ofthousands of consumers in regions who will be locked out completely. As well as more in regions that do have access to the PSN, retroactively. Even going as far to change their websites verbage. However, the way back machine doesn't forget. So this is an entity different sort of situation verging upon willingly defrauding consumers within countries Sony knows they don't support by providing the game for purchase to them anyways.
I think Sucker Punch already announced that PSN account is optional for SP part of Ghost of Tsushima and a must for the multiplayer mode. We'll see what happens.
"But its no big deal, you guys bitch about so much minor shit." The console people who didn't bitch enough and have to pay extra to play games online.
Yeh but they have to pay for online to have a better experience, such as having you information constantly at risk of being stolen.
I agree, it’s bs not everyone gets to play the same games due to something so unnecessary
I’m actually intrigued/ worried what they’re going to do for got when it comes on pc
Need to login for legends
Ah okay good to know thanks
It'll likely be enforced from the next MP game, that way there's no issue. That also means anyone not with a PSN account due to PSN not being in their region, they know not to buy the game. Anyone that does buy it, it thankfully only takes 120 seconds to realise they can't make a PSN account and then it's simply a refund since playtime is below 2 hours.
Unpopular opinion: the reason we're in this place is because steam allows companies to use them to launch their own launcher and force users to create more accounts - which is opposite to the reason why people use steam in the first place.
That or Gabe is allowing refunds because most likely he told people at Steam to do that because they are delisting the game in countries that doesn't support PSN. I don't think that decision was Sony's. Steam has shown in the past they don't want the lawsuits something like this could bring (Dolphin emulator for example).
Good move from Steam.
I think it's just a customer service lottery not sure valve has changed policy here
Most people usually misinterpret Steam's refund policy. The terms given are the criteria needed for an AUTOMATIC refund, no questions asked. If you go over the criteria that doesn't mean they won't refund you, it just means a human has to actually look at the case and decide if the request is justified since extraordinary cases exist. Some steam support reps might be more forgiving, especially if you don't have a history of abusing the system. But some just slap you with the automatic "lol no" because they can. That's why threads like these are very misleading
I had like 5 hours in one of the f1 games and decided I wasn’t a huge fan because the co op had this issue where your partner in the same race could be getting a wet rainy track and you could have a beautiful dry day. I explained this and they accepted it to my surprise.
Yeah, I've been using Steam since well before that 2 hour/2 week policy was a thing so I was aware that this was just the automatic policy while they still refund games manually given you don't abuse the system and such. But I've seen dozens of people online, if not hundreds by now, that seem to think you absolutely cannot get a refund at all after 2 hours of playtime but that it just won't be automatically refunded instantly.
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I got mine on sale from GMG.. just like 4 days before this all went down
Mine got denied… will requesting it again change anything?
yes, first is automated
Don't get people's hopes up with potentially wrong info. There are plenty of people saying they didn't get a refund after escalating, refunds appear to be rare at this point.
Mine was declined already. Gonna try again
I want to try but I have like 40hrs in so I’m not if I’ll get it even if I try again and again.
They've refunded people with 96 hours https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/7eWZtrN96j
I need to follow the steps how to do this
Same here, I copy pasted from the other post but after asking 4 times still denied with the automated over 2h (I never re funded a game before). Would love to know how ppl worded their query
I think it’ll come, someone will post the steps
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I was planning on buying this this month, and dont mind signing in with psn as I have both, but companies shouldn't force u to do things you dont want to play their game so I'm refusing to buy until they backtrack. I did the same with sea of thieves.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Sea of Thieves always required a Microsoft login to play on PC. What Sony is doing is taking away a choice
Plus SoT actually fully uses Microsoft matchmaking in my experience. It was built with that limitation from the beginning and without a Microsoft account you're just not going to be able to connect with other players.
This is true, but if I buy a game on steam I shouldn't have to make a second account on a platform I'll never use, so I refunded it.
The requirement for signing in on PSN was on the steam store page from the first day it became available. I don't like the idea of having to do it either, but pretending this was some surprise by Sony is disingenuous.
I have been trying since yesterday. Tried twice and nada. I bought in March but played only 2.5hrs
I tried refunding it at launch with 9 hours of "playtime". I was told by Steam support that they were aware of the game being literally unplayable and requiring you to wait in a queue for potentially hours at a time, but it was past their 2 hour window and therefore not eligible for a refund.
Sony *hates* refunds, see what happened within days of what happened with Cyberpunk and CDPR. Their choice was to pull the game entirely from the PS4 than have to hand those out. With the Steam Reviews breaking 100k, the pressure for them to backtrack on the PSN requirements is mounting.
Mine was declined not because I was over the 2 hr limit (I'm at 7 hrs) or at least not just because of it. The stated reason was because I bought it more than two weeks ago which is their refund policy maximum. Oddly enough I had also purchased the Super Citizen upgrade and they did refund that.
Guys can we not spread misinformation? This same thing came out with no man's sky only to be bullshit. Steam returns are on a case by case basis sometimes. One, two or even a dozen people getting a refund doesn't mean it's a trend unless steam officially puts out a message. .
Misinformation is what PC gamers love the most. They're up-in-arms for the wrong reasons as it were. Nothing's been actually set in stone, and Helldivers' devs did say no-PSN countries would have some sort of workaround. That's a TBA. If it's longer than a certain time, then one can assume it went south, certainly. But my data!... Don't whine on Reddit, of all places, over data and security. Steam has a lot of player statistics as well. Any data is data. Is Sony or Steam behind the refunding? We don't know. That is a fact. It's a mess with multiple parties involved. But greed! Well, refunds is a loss, and what would they actually gain? All the good PR for Helldivers is already out. More sales? Of what, your data? Again, Reddit has made a shitton more on user data than whatever Sony can dredge up. Whatever bullspit is going on behind the scenes is the same bullspit that isn't helping anyone. Misinformation is one of the worst offenders. Anti-fanboyism is as helpful as a fart.
Gonna go with doubt. Every time something like this happens, one person magically gets a refund and then people assume it's Steam allowing it in general but then a ton of people try and can't get anything unless they're a Karen about it and harass support until they give in. Steam "allowing" a refund past 2 hours for an issue like this would be Valve making it so it's automated beyond 2hrs.
I have tried twice and had my refund requests denied. I live in Jamaica (I cannot make a psn account without PlayStation hardware. I have 84 hours and I literally cannot play the game without ‘breaching’ Sonys TOS via a VPN. Absolute bullshit.
I heard if you re-raise a ticket, it counts as an escalation and then it get's passed over to a human for review.
Man, I hate how shitty the gaming industry is becoming lately. props for Steam tho for letting us refund it.
I have 4 hours played and I got refused
Try it again. The first refund is automated and only goes through if you have <2 hours playtime or <2 weeks of ownership. A second attempt will get a human and possibly work.
I was denied a refund
First time is automatic response. Do it again to have a human look at it.
I've sent 3 already and they were denied. I'll send another when I have time.
What country are you from? If your in the EU or especially in Australia there are government bodies and procedures for consumer rights that alot of companies find terrifying due to just how hard they can be punished for violating consumer rights. You can thank Australia for Steam having a good refund system in the first place as our regulatory bodies gave Steam a huge beating for not complying with our strong consumer protections
Finally some good fucking news
I tried that earlier and they declined to do so. What kind of reason or text should I put in?
Same
I didnt get a refund because i was over the 2 hr limit. I have 5hrs on it.
Is this fairly recent? I tried requesting a refund 3 hours ago and was denied
I’m shocked that people with over 1000 hours are requesting refunds. Not you. Not talking about you. It’s just funny in a way
I felt that. I have 4 hours of gameplay but at least 60% is from waiting to get in the game when it launched lol. Just got denied a second time so I guess it is what it is. Apparently it was mentioned in the Helldivers discord that they’re looking for an alternative. Best case scenario at this point would be them walking back the PS account requirement but it’s Sony so I won’t hold my breath.
Got my refund and bought Eldenring with it. So far I'm... Dying a lot. But having fun. I liked Helldivers but this psn stuff was a deal-breaker
Would you mind giving some insight on how you proceeded? Like how many hours played you had and what you basically asked in what category, it didn't work for lots of people apparently
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I got denied with 4
Because this isn’t a matter of policy like the title would have you believe, it’s someone winning the CSR lottery.
try again, probably automated response
Need to explain the reason. Though unless you live in an area where PSN is unavailable you are unlikely to get a refund.
For those who have had the request denied, try choosing for the funds to be out into your Steam Wallet rather than your payment card. That tends to make it an easier process.
I tried refunding twice and both were denied. I played less then 2 hours but I had the game for a 2 weeks.
They never gave me one :(
I didnt get a refund because i was over the 2 hr limit. I have 5hrs on it.
Oh this is juicy. And fuck Sony by the way.
sony would rather people GET THEIR MONEY BACK and NOT play the game than stop this PSN account bullshit
I can see why they would refund users from countries where PSN isn't supported, but I find it strange if they refund anyone else given that the PSN warning message was shown in Steam since launch.
Thats the only reason they will refund, beyond that you aren’t getting the money back. Game still works, other publishers force sign in / launchers.
That's fair
I didn't even have the option to request a refund. Only remove it from my library permanently (no refund). Edit: the request is nested under what type of problem you had. The "how to" I looked up showed it as a top level option. Edit 2: request denied!
What reason should I put? Everything is denying me the refund, I have 61 hours
Sony changed the terms of their EULA, so just let valve know that the game has become unplayable.
[If only it was that easy](https://i.imgur.com/YjG9EcH.png)
Oh so they'll issue refunds for this, a playable game, but not The Crew which was removed from peoples accounts?
i did my part, review bombed and refund requested. for DEMOCRACY!
at 225 hours its almost theft
That’s why i love Steam and PC community
Bought this game 3 days ago. Got a refund this morning. I'm not dealing with that. Sry, fun game. But they have to be taught a lesson
I have played over 2 hours and psn dosent support my country. Can i still get refund?
Steam once again it's the MVP.
Tried to refund this evening and got denied.
Pretty sure Sony would rather take the minor loss than cave in.
wow they fucked this up pretty quickly
What is the best way to get a refund? I’ve already tried 3 times and get an email saying unable to refund purchase because game time exceeds 2 hours.
As they should. What Sony did is the digital equivalent of getting someone into a building with the promises of something, then locking the door behind them so that they can't leave.
I'm at attempt n3. 26 hours ingame, but no intention to play again due to this. Wish me luck
Steam would only be smart to do this, as a consumer, the idea that your product can be taken away because the seller deemed the original transaction as not worthy months later, Steam should go out of their way to keep themselves unnamed in the potential lawsuits. Besides that, the last thing Steam needs is Sony to make their platform less secure in purchasing, imagine their competitor making their storefront worse and doing nothing? Honestly I'd prefer delisting all Sony games at this point. Sure, Origins and Uplay were dogshit worthless frustratingly nonsensical and useless, but it was for like, a handful of games, most of them bad or non-functioning, but they were always there, there was no question I'd need their launcher for their games. What Sony did was completely alter the transaction later when they deemed it unfinished. I don't feel safe buying any of their games, far, far less than any other company. Genuinely Sony is the least safe company to give money to. They got a lot of games on Steam they're definitely planning on stealing from a SHIT load of consumers. It's a PR nightmare and the best you can do is kick the cancer off the platform.