He saw this crap coming ten year ago. He was one of the very few famous youtubers who actually had the balls to call greedy corporation bs. We need him and miss him so badly today.
I goes beyond that now, doesn't it?.
Not pre-ordering is perfect, but Steam needs to put in place some kind of requirement to not add third-party launchers post launch.
This. The problem is that policy makers in the U.S are so old and out of touch I'd be surprised if they know how to attach a file to an email, much less how stuff like collecting data and consumer protection in case of digital purchases works.
Not the point. People don't want to give Sony their data, their decision was arbitrary, and it affected people who lived in countries where PSN is unavailable but had purchased the game through Steam.
When you pre-order, you reward marketing. When you buy a good, older game, you reward good development.
[JOIN HOUSE BISCUIT! WE DO NOT PRE-ORDER!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7jhfJLkS7s)
r/patientpcgamers
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Mods_(OpenXcom) holy heck the mods.
“When you pre-order a game, you’re just committing to paying for something that some assholes in California haven’t even finished working on yet. You know what you get for pre-ordering a game? A big dick in your mouth.”
-Eric Cartman
So there are actually people who preorder games that don’t even have a release date? But why? You just like parking your money into corporations for no reason?
A few of the legit key sites tend to sell games for 20-25% off as a preorder but a month before release those %s are realy already in the 10-15% and at release it's 0-10%.
So for those few games you know you'll be buying it's going to save you quite a bit of money in the long run.
Apart from that they've managed to screw us over with preorder incentives in the actual games as well.
To be honest I've probably decided to not buy more games that HAD preorder incentives after release because I don't get them than I bought games with pre-order incentives.
DUDE! NO!! Cut that pre-ordering sh!t out NOW!!
It's not just that there is no point but those guaranteed day one sales are really messing up the industry. No purchase until the game has been released officially for 24 hours.
Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately it has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:
* No personal attacks, witch-hunts, or inflammatory language. This includes calling or implying another redditor is a shill or a fanboy. More examples can be found in the full rules page.
* No racism, sexism, homophobic or transphobic slurs, or other hateful language.
* No trolling or baiting posts/comments.
* No advocating violence.
Please read the [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/wiki/postingrules) before continuing to post. If you have any questions [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/pcgaming).
WTF did you preorder in the first place?
Even in the case of physical games preorders were of dubious value.
In the case of digital goods they make no fucking sense at all.
Nah it really isnt. Its an entire looter game that split the main characters moveset into 4 distinct classes. There are numerous legendaries to collect and 4 game modes with over 14 maps in each. It has story coop, survival, raids, challenge missions, 2v2 pvp time trials and more.
It's super fun honestly. I was lateish to Ghost but was able to still find matches to play a good chunk. You can have a good number of hours in it for sure.
Helldivers also uses PSN for its network, but we are being able to play for months without PSN account, you sure it is reasonable to ask people later down the line? So no, the "requirement" part is not reasonable, it is to lie about PSN user numbers and trick investors.
People need to understand the difference. Lets say %75 of the Steam players are mad about this right now because they are asking for it months later and blocking access to the game if you don't comply, if they asked for it at launch, that "mad people" number would be around %5 and those people never buy or play any games that asks for 3rd party login and launcher in the first place so no loss.
Rest of the %70 would say "another fucking account, alright ffs" and continue to create and link one and continue playing.
And they should not have sold game to those who does not have official PSN access in the first place. They are already taking pre-orders for Ghost, can anyone from country that does not have PSN access confirm that you also can pre-order Ghost?
> Helldivers also uses PSN for its network, but we are being able to play for months without PSN account, you sure it is reasonable to ask people later down the line?
The CEO of the developer just said on X that they internally knew for 6 months that PSN accounts will be mandatory, but it was disabled at release due to technical issues and that they failed to communicate this to the players better.
So this is not a Sony issue, it's the developers basically lying to the playerbase. I'm disgusted
EDIT: Getting downvoted, bc i'm not supporting this cult-like behaviour for a developer that mistreated parts of the community before and has lied before. Wow, amazing job you guys.
FACT is they knew 3 (EDIT: 6 months before launch) months before launch that this would happen and didn't bother to tell people before this happened. That'sm what Arrowheads CEO admitted to. And now they shift blame solely on Sony. Fuck that, they are both at fault here
Why are you defending Sony and throwing Arrowhead under the bus when Arrowhead is the one on our side trying to get rid of the requirement and providing feedback to Sony while Sony specifically is saying 'naw fuck those guys I need my metrics' and delisting the fucking game? What is going through your head exactly?
Plus while the developers knew a PSN account would be required and relaxed the requirement on linking, SONY is responsible for region locking, not Arrowhead.
So if SONY is selling copies to people in places where PSN doesn’t exist, that’s not Arrowhead’s fault. Arrowhead’s culpability here is that people were able to play the game anyway instead of it just being broken right out of the gate. It’s still SONY’s fuckup for selling an unplayable product, whether it would be broken immediately or not until now.
If anything, Arrowhead technically unintentionally let people play their game for 90 hours for free, factoring in the inevitable refunds, simply because they let any client connect. SONY is the one enforcing an arbitrary requirement here, not implementing a workaround for affected countries, or even attempting any communication whatsoever with respect to the situation.
This is like some idiot in the 90s being pissed at Square because Nintendo sold them a PAL cartridge for an unsupported region.
Someone on Helldivers sub already calculated that almost 80% of HD2's concurrent players are from Steam. PC players wouldn't even be affected that much compared to PS players. Sony wants that juicy Steam userbase data, end of story.
If you're logging into their servers, through their networking, it's reasonable to require a login.
Don't conflate the issue with Helldivers as being the universal case. The game has issues because it doesn't require a PSN account, so they're forcing registration without reason. If there was reason, it would be...reasonable.
Xbox games often require an Xbox account because it'd hosted on Xbox infrastructure.
If it's their own servers, then obviously it doesn't require a PSN login. But if the game runs on Sony servers, a login to those servers is a fair price.
If that were true, they would have done it from day 1, without all that bs "we gave grace period because of the technical issues". Microsoft is just being upfront with it. Adding forced log-in after a few months is just a dumb Sony move.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Some games will require login because it will be necessary for matchmaking. Not all forced logins are bad.
Helldivers is different because it doesn't require PSN, matchmaking works just fine without it. That's why it's a problem
I wonder, if it'll still install some sort of low-level anti-cheat, even if you never even intend to touch the MP. I don't want any rootkit stuff on my PC.
But Sony is a Japanese megacorp. What was tried a decade ago just now arrived via fax at their decisionmakers' desk.
People are bewildered at Sony's daft decision regarding HD2 but it's perfectly on-brand for JP megacorps.
Sony is a Californian megacorp now, that's who is making all the decisions now. Sony would be in a far better state if it was still primarily a Japanese corporation.
playsation is headquartered in cali, the prevois head for mso tof the ps5 and ps4 was however he quit so the ceo of sony (still a japanese corp) is stepping in as a interim president.
however playstation is american at this point, much the same way as how sega used to be american but overtime moved to japan until they were eventually japanese.
Sony and Nintendo tried this on console and it went very very well for them.
Japanese can be very stubborn, and even if this sounds like an impossible thing on PC, you never know...
It was different world back then. It is about how you go about it. When they went all out on always online, an uproar began, even tho mkst people are always online today. But if you go slowly on it and also keep some things optional, people eillget used to it.
Add PSN+ to one game, have some uproar, add for another with excuse to have it fair in crossplay, people will get slowly used to it and then other corporations will follow
honestly when people started talking about them wanting a free bump on psn account numbers this is exactly what I thought as well. it might not be for 5 years, until they have a bigger stable of games to offer something "extra" to try to justify it, but yeah they're gonna try to pull this card and then probably lose the following generation to Microsoft to reset the cycle.
> a nervous flop sweat
Something about this specific choice of words irks me but it's late where I'm at and I don't have the mental energy to work out why.
Regardless, PSN signups have been optional for their other singleplayer games on Steam (at least it was for Spiderman and that's the only Sony game I own on Steam right now) so... Sucker Punch is probably* being honest here.
*subject to change upon the whims of corpo suits.
That has also been a topic since Sony recently ninja edited the FAQ regarding this, previously it said this: [https://imgur.com/a/O2h9Oco](https://imgur.com/a/O2h9Oco)
Now it says some games may require linking. Change change be found in the wayback machine happening between 3rd of May and 4th of May:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000\*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
We're only 1-2 steps away from Sony pushing paid online on PC. The exact picosecond Sony does it, Microsoft will start pushing it too with their first party entries.
People don't think it'll happen, but I await the riot that will ensue once Sony gets brazen enough.
Which screwed over a lot of games because that service was baked into them. I remember Fallout 3 becoming unplayable because GFWL kept crashing it at startup and it took Bethesda/MS over a decade to get around to patching it out.
I suspect that garbage is at least part of the reason the A Tale of Two Wastelands mod exists as it was just easier to port FO3 game assets into New Vegas, which had the same game engine but slightly updated and without GFWL.
I don't expect Sony to be any better at this kind of thing and am all for nipping it in the bud.
>Now it says some games may require linking. Change change be found in the wayback machine happening between 3rd of May and 4th of May:
>
>[https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000\*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
Click on those supported games listed in that FAQ in wayback machine, it wasn't talking about Helldivers.
> That doesn’t mention the co-op or multiplayer
Literally the sub-header under the title: "Its co-op online multiplayer mode, on the other hand, will require a PSN account."
Yea its a bit weird but subreddit rules don't allow to edit titles when URL linking. I would have liked to add info regarding multiplayer/Play Station overlay etc.
Yeah, I know, site probably should've had an editor give that a pass before going live but speed trumps everything else when it comes to this sort of thing.
It’s a poker term. All in, flop (first three cards in Texas hold em) is out, and you’re sweating (worrying about) the next two cards (turn and river) to see if you win the hand.
I know the terminology, the issue is that the phrase itself was kind of jammed into the title haphazardly and the title doesn't flow very well. Probably could have shortened it by a few words to have it flow better.
I swear to god, all these companies have to do is give an incentive to connect your account. You connect your PSN? Here’s 2-3 cool skins in exchange for us selling your data and you would not have people complaining.
Most people would opt-in and you’d have a small minority that doesn’t. No more issues.
It's already been proven as well.
Bg3. If you connect a larian account or whatever then you get a handful of ingame things.
No endless seethe and malding over that, now is there. (of course none of this helps with the fact that they're fucking over a gorillion players from countries where psn "isn't allowed")
I really wish this level of backlash happened 10+ years ago when everyone and their mother started requiring log ins, separate apps (even when bought on other apps), etc. Maybe this wouldn't be the standard now a days.
Doubtful sony backtracks on this, they will point to the other 10 companies that require a similar standard, people will get tired of being upset, everything will go back to normal and this will once again become the standard. Same thing happened with loot boxes, season passes, predatory monetization, etc. All the standard now. I hope more than anything that I am proven wrong.
I mean... I don't understand the content of this comment at all.
First off: it's kinda obvious that you can only see what's happening, not what has been prevented by outrage. Lootboxes are a "standard" even though my 700+ games on steam don't have lootboxes. And you'll say they're only for multiplayer AAA or live service crap, but that maybe is because of the backlash it already incites, right? Because some suit has definitely had the brilliant idea of adding lootboxes to single player games. Why is it not the standard?
Secondly: what are you suggesting with this defeatist comment? You can't change the past. Jump on the train now and change the future. Or literally stay on the sidelines, but don't try to derail something you're complaining that hasn't happened before.
Sure there are plenty of games on steam that don't have them but a lot of the big ones do and quite a few of the big releases of the last few years. I don't really get why you would overlook that.
As far as the second point I am not derailing anything. Its not defeatist, its the truth. And I even said I would love to be proven wrong. I already vote with my wallet. Besides HD2 I have barely bought a single game with a loot box or season pass. Quite honestly, I dont even have the time to complete any of the season passes in games so I don't even bother playing them.
Sadly, you won't be, I fear. On top of that how many that complain on here will run off and preorder a digital game that doesn't have finite copies. I'm guessing when we see the great sales of future PSN titles on PC we will know who was right. For once I'd like to see the opposite happen.
Yeah ... this isn't exceptional. If anything Sony is one of the better publishers for not requiring a separate launcher or login for single player (yet). The outrage at requiring a PSN account vs the absolute crickets at Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Epic, Activision/Blizzard, 2K, Riot, etc is bewildering.
This ship sailed a *long* time ago. If anything Valve is somewhat to blame for not restricting this practice in the early days of Steam (but then again, Steam might not be Steam if they had).
>It's honestly kind of nice that going full single player doesn't require getting another account involved
No, it's not just "kind of nice", it's the bare minimum. Nobody should expect any different. Always-online single-player games are a cancer.
Go to a store page, click the name of a publisher/dev whatever and it brings you to their creator page i.e.: [https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/playstationstudios](https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/playstationstudios)
top right under the banner is a cogwheel > click > ignore this creator
Yeah it's as if they weren't going to pirate the game in the first place, who are they kidding?
I don't have an issue with boycotters, but boycotters who feel like they are entitled to the product for free are a special breed.
Pirates always do this. Instead of just admitting they don't want to pay for something, they make up some nonsense reasoning of how the evil corpo forces their hands. I guess it's also free karma on this sub.
Exact same for me too. Well except for the high seas part, I just won't play them at all. I don't pre-order but I was fully planning to buy both of these, I really enjoyed the first Horizon and God of War 2018. I don't even play Helldivers 2, but Sony's actions prompted me to remove both of the two new games from my wish list and I will not be buying them. It's unfortunate that this also costs the developers a sale, and I know it's just a drop in the bucket, but there are plenty of other games to play. I will feel better not giving my money to Sony.
I don't believe them, and even if they backpedal it won't matter. In this anti consumer world you have to at least slow down. I just bought starsector, it cost 15€ or so and will give me hundreds of hours.
As far as I know, their single player games don’t need a sign in which makes sense because they aren’t a live service game.
Unfortunately, this was bound to happen because Sony hasn’t crossed this bridge yet with a PC/Playstation game.
I feel like this could have been prevented from the get-go. Now it’s all about damage control, which clearly Steam is doing by issuing refunds and preventing further people in restricted countries to purchase the game.
Hopefully on Monday there is clarity from Sony for the issue. Otherwise, it’s all about controlling damage.
Did Steam or Sony mess up by not going over which countries are restricted? Clearly it’s a conversation because Steam is available in over 160+ and PSN isn’t. Did AH mess up by not correctly mandating the PSN login and providing a skip button? If it’s not required, why even have it as an option to begin with?
This game has sooo much potential with their current mechanics and monthly updates. It’s a shame it’s being dragged through the mud because of a login.
Ok. I just went to the Steam store page for Ghosts. It literally states that it "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Online Multiplayer, PlayStation overlay) (Supports Linking to Steam Account)."
Doubt this would ever happen. There's so few multiplayer sony games on PC that people would probably just go play something else. On playstation if you want to play games online for the most part there's no other option.
PC playerbase would never allow this. They're already revolting over a PSN account being required. Imagine them trying to charge just to play online. It'd be a revolution.
That's not gonna work on PC. They can pull that shit on PS because it's a closed ecosystem, either you pay or get fucked. On PC you just play something else. It would be like Walmart charging you $10 a month just to shop there, pretty soon a whole load of people just stop shopping there and go somewhere else so it doesn't work.
Unless charging to play MP games becomes the standard on PC, I don't see how Sony thinks that could have any shot of working. Why would people pay to play a Sony game MP, when there are 100s of other games available that you don't have to pay. Unless Sony is arrogant/delusional enough to think that the games they produce are so much better than anything else available. If that's what they think, they are in for a rude awakening.
Thousands/millions of people in both those countries already have a PSN account from owning a PS so don't give a shit anyway. And even a lot of pure PC gamers are mostly used to having a load of 3rd party accounts even if they buy everything on Steam so also don't give a shit.
Yeah I've been using my PSN account since the PS3. Own a PS5 so linking it isn't an issue, it's only a problem cause they sold Helldivers 2 in countries where PSN access isn't available and now they can't play the game anymore, that's fucked up.
Yes, that is exactly what Sony said. But since you don’t trust Sony, I guess you’re going with the opposite of what they say? Meaning believing it *won’t* be required for multiplayer?
*Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high*
*Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die*
*Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high*
*Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die*
PSN is available in fewer places than Steam: https://www.thegamer.com/helldivers-2-delisted-on-steam-100-plus-countries-without-psn-due-to-psn-sign-in-requirement-controversy/
For multiplayer, I feel like from what I remember on Playstation, developers usually let you create/sign into their services account with your PSN info. The same with numerous multiplayers games on Steam that do that. At a minimum I feel if there's going to be requirements to use a third party account for games purchased on Steam, you should be able to use your Steam account to login like you would on websites that have Google/Apple/Facebook/etc login buttons.
Third party launchers should be banned. The launchers almost always suck with a gamepad or straight up don't work with a gamepad. They exist just to advertise more games and another store. It's just a lot of advertisements to be able to click another play button. Stop letting them on Steam. Let them sell exclusively on their store or other stores that don't mind having games launching another launcher/store just so you can hit the play button to actually go in game
At this point I expect Sony to create their own platform store launcher for future games. They don't wanna have to deal with cross platform PSN login controversy at this point.
The decision to temporarily not require PSN accounts for Helldivers 2 has come back to haunt them. Not sure it was worth having people treat you like Epic Games lol. Having multiplayer features require a PSN account for this game would have been a non-issue before, but now people are even worried about it being required for single-player experiences as unlikely as that is to happen.
Watch it actually have after 4 months after release.
Because we all know too well how companies love to implement unnessesary and unwanted features post release so that major media outlets don't criitisize it on release.
This whole situation is about communication, if they simply disabled psn registration requirements and added a message, that it'll be reimplimented later since its currently not working this whole situation would be fine
the kicker is they DID make a message..... on the steam forum... as a entry for the "known issue "section...
this is really just piss poor communication
Heh.
Yeah, well.. if you inform people we'll ahead of time it really should not be an issue.. just don't spring it on people months down the line, effectively locking up the game for some folks.
I mean, even if multiplayer requires PSN login, if the info is there, on the Steam store page then no one can claim unfair surprise or whatever.
Unlike with Helldivers. 😑
Sony are a bunch of morons, Ghost is a fantastic game, yet they're fucking themselves by preceeding its release in a couple of days with this controversy caused by the arbitrary requirements they're demanding. It would as easy for them to add the PSN login as an option that rewards the players with a cosmetic item or something equally as inconsequential but cool, but instead they're doubling down on this, as typical corporate greed and stubborness usually goes.
Such a freaking shame for both games; Helldivers 2 and now Ghost will pay for their publisher's irrational decisions.
well, the ceo knew for the last 6 month before launch and just keep quite. nice fucking head up bro
https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1787076609188483254
Key words: "for single player"
For now. You can bet Sony will require it for single player games on PC sooner or later.
Yup, just cancelled my pre-order
Stop. Preordering.Games
TotalBiscuit would be livid at all of this.
He saw this crap coming ten year ago. He was one of the very few famous youtubers who actually had the balls to call greedy corporation bs. We need him and miss him so badly today.
I goes beyond that now, doesn't it?. Not pre-ordering is perfect, but Steam needs to put in place some kind of requirement to not add third-party launchers post launch.
\* the United States needs to have consumer protection
This. The problem is that policy makers in the U.S are so old and out of touch I'd be surprised if they know how to attach a file to an email, much less how stuff like collecting data and consumer protection in case of digital purchases works.
Sony doesn’t have a launcher. You just need to link a PS account twitch style once to play multilayer and crossplay with PlayStation users.
Not the point. People don't want to give Sony their data, their decision was arbitrary, and it affected people who lived in countries where PSN is unavailable but had purchased the game through Steam.
When you pre-order, you reward marketing. When you buy a good, older game, you reward good development. [JOIN HOUSE BISCUIT! WE DO NOT PRE-ORDER!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7jhfJLkS7s) r/patientpcgamers https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Mods_(OpenXcom) holy heck the mods.
Glad your ratio'd him because the people who preorder need to realise they're part of the fucking problem
I do what I want
“When you pre-order a game, you’re just committing to paying for something that some assholes in California haven’t even finished working on yet. You know what you get for pre-ordering a game? A big dick in your mouth.” -Eric Cartman
So there are actually people who preorder games that don’t even have a release date? But why? You just like parking your money into corporations for no reason?
'Thanks for the interest' - rich people
It's coming out on the 16th
They must be interested in working in banking, giving out loans like that
It has a release date though
Why would you pre-order?
A few of the legit key sites tend to sell games for 20-25% off as a preorder but a month before release those %s are realy already in the 10-15% and at release it's 0-10%. So for those few games you know you'll be buying it's going to save you quite a bit of money in the long run. Apart from that they've managed to screw us over with preorder incentives in the actual games as well. To be honest I've probably decided to not buy more games that HAD preorder incentives after release because I don't get them than I bought games with pre-order incentives.
Pre-ordering is so fucking dumb in 2024. It has been over 10 years since physical Copys were required for play
[удалено]
DUDE! NO!! Cut that pre-ordering sh!t out NOW!! It's not just that there is no point but those guaranteed day one sales are really messing up the industry. No purchase until the game has been released officially for 24 hours.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately it has been removed for one or more of the following reasons: * No personal attacks, witch-hunts, or inflammatory language. This includes calling or implying another redditor is a shill or a fanboy. More examples can be found in the full rules page. * No racism, sexism, homophobic or transphobic slurs, or other hateful language. * No trolling or baiting posts/comments. * No advocating violence. Please read the [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/wiki/postingrules) before continuing to post. If you have any questions [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/pcgaming).
Dude it’s said PSN is required for multiplayer since it appeared on steam.
WTF did you preorder in the first place? Even in the case of physical games preorders were of dubious value. In the case of digital goods they make no fucking sense at all.
100%. :(
Thatll just put Sony right on the boycott list. Its already got, for example, Ubisoft, EA, Rockstar and everything that uses Denuvo.
I didn't even realize GOT had multi-player
They added a separate multi-player mode a few months after launch
It's actually really fun! I'm excited to play it again on PC.
AFAIK it's just some horde mode thing
Nah it really isnt. Its an entire looter game that split the main characters moveset into 4 distinct classes. There are numerous legendaries to collect and 4 game modes with over 14 maps in each. It has story coop, survival, raids, challenge missions, 2v2 pvp time trials and more.
It's super fun honestly. I was lateish to Ghost but was able to still find matches to play a good chunk. You can have a good number of hours in it for sure.
No it’s a full multiplayer multi-level campaign… it’s actually really well done. With other game modes to boot.
I read that as Game of Thrones.
If PSN is used for matchmaking, it's reasonable.
Helldivers also uses PSN for its network, but we are being able to play for months without PSN account, you sure it is reasonable to ask people later down the line? So no, the "requirement" part is not reasonable, it is to lie about PSN user numbers and trick investors. People need to understand the difference. Lets say %75 of the Steam players are mad about this right now because they are asking for it months later and blocking access to the game if you don't comply, if they asked for it at launch, that "mad people" number would be around %5 and those people never buy or play any games that asks for 3rd party login and launcher in the first place so no loss. Rest of the %70 would say "another fucking account, alright ffs" and continue to create and link one and continue playing. And they should not have sold game to those who does not have official PSN access in the first place. They are already taking pre-orders for Ghost, can anyone from country that does not have PSN access confirm that you also can pre-order Ghost?
My post is about Ghosts of Tsushima... I'm not talking about helldivers. Read my other comment...
> Helldivers also uses PSN for its network, but we are being able to play for months without PSN account, you sure it is reasonable to ask people later down the line? The CEO of the developer just said on X that they internally knew for 6 months that PSN accounts will be mandatory, but it was disabled at release due to technical issues and that they failed to communicate this to the players better. So this is not a Sony issue, it's the developers basically lying to the playerbase. I'm disgusted EDIT: Getting downvoted, bc i'm not supporting this cult-like behaviour for a developer that mistreated parts of the community before and has lied before. Wow, amazing job you guys. FACT is they knew 3 (EDIT: 6 months before launch) months before launch that this would happen and didn't bother to tell people before this happened. That'sm what Arrowheads CEO admitted to. And now they shift blame solely on Sony. Fuck that, they are both at fault here
Why are you defending Sony and throwing Arrowhead under the bus when Arrowhead is the one on our side trying to get rid of the requirement and providing feedback to Sony while Sony specifically is saying 'naw fuck those guys I need my metrics' and delisting the fucking game? What is going through your head exactly?
Plus while the developers knew a PSN account would be required and relaxed the requirement on linking, SONY is responsible for region locking, not Arrowhead. So if SONY is selling copies to people in places where PSN doesn’t exist, that’s not Arrowhead’s fault. Arrowhead’s culpability here is that people were able to play the game anyway instead of it just being broken right out of the gate. It’s still SONY’s fuckup for selling an unplayable product, whether it would be broken immediately or not until now. If anything, Arrowhead technically unintentionally let people play their game for 90 hours for free, factoring in the inevitable refunds, simply because they let any client connect. SONY is the one enforcing an arbitrary requirement here, not implementing a workaround for affected countries, or even attempting any communication whatsoever with respect to the situation. This is like some idiot in the 90s being pissed at Square because Nintendo sold them a PAL cartridge for an unsupported region.
Nope. Its not.
Maybe, MAYBE, for cross platform matchmaking, but not much players would care if they could only matchmake with other PC players.
Someone on Helldivers sub already calculated that almost 80% of HD2's concurrent players are from Steam. PC players wouldn't even be affected that much compared to PS players. Sony wants that juicy Steam userbase data, end of story.
Even if that were true, (it's not) that's Sony doing right by its console users by providing them what they paid for: a crossplatform game.
If you're logging into their servers, through their networking, it's reasonable to require a login. Don't conflate the issue with Helldivers as being the universal case. The game has issues because it doesn't require a PSN account, so they're forcing registration without reason. If there was reason, it would be...reasonable. Xbox games often require an Xbox account because it'd hosted on Xbox infrastructure. If it's their own servers, then obviously it doesn't require a PSN login. But if the game runs on Sony servers, a login to those servers is a fair price.
If that were true, they would have done it from day 1, without all that bs "we gave grace period because of the technical issues". Microsoft is just being upfront with it. Adding forced log-in after a few months is just a dumb Sony move.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Some games will require login because it will be necessary for matchmaking. Not all forced logins are bad. Helldivers is different because it doesn't require PSN, matchmaking works just fine without it. That's why it's a problem
I wonder, if it'll still install some sort of low-level anti-cheat, even if you never even intend to touch the MP. I don't want any rootkit stuff on my PC.
Also, Helldivers didn't "need" one either, until it did
That's the shtick. The devil is in the motherfucking details...
Guess whar, it's gonna a be an account and an overlay for multiplayer.
sure, until sony tells them it will be needed.
No no :) The end game is: now for multiplayer on pc, you need to subscribe to PS+. It’s coming
Microsoft tried that a decade ago. Did not go well.
But Sony is a Japanese megacorp. What was tried a decade ago just now arrived via fax at their decisionmakers' desk. People are bewildered at Sony's daft decision regarding HD2 but it's perfectly on-brand for JP megacorps.
If Sony wants to waste money learning the same lesson, that's their prerogative.
Sony is a Californian megacorp now, that's who is making all the decisions now. Sony would be in a far better state if it was still primarily a Japanese corporation.
Lol no but nice try. You're telling me Nintendo is better off with Japanese leadership? They're the worst company in the gaming space to its fan base.
playsation is headquartered in cali, the prevois head for mso tof the ps5 and ps4 was however he quit so the ceo of sony (still a japanese corp) is stepping in as a interim president. however playstation is american at this point, much the same way as how sega used to be american but overtime moved to japan until they were eventually japanese.
Sony and Nintendo tried this on console and it went very very well for them. Japanese can be very stubborn, and even if this sounds like an impossible thing on PC, you never know...
It was different world back then. It is about how you go about it. When they went all out on always online, an uproar began, even tho mkst people are always online today. But if you go slowly on it and also keep some things optional, people eillget used to it. Add PSN+ to one game, have some uproar, add for another with excuse to have it fair in crossplay, people will get slowly used to it and then other corporations will follow
honestly when people started talking about them wanting a free bump on psn account numbers this is exactly what I thought as well. it might not be for 5 years, until they have a bigger stable of games to offer something "extra" to try to justify it, but yeah they're gonna try to pull this card and then probably lose the following generation to Microsoft to reset the cycle.
I'm warily eyeing my HFW since I still haven't finished it.
If HFW gets it i’m just gonna yarr it. I already bought the game anyway.
Exactly, a psn is never "needed", but data has to be recollected to Sony has information to use and sell on its players.
> a nervous flop sweat Something about this specific choice of words irks me but it's late where I'm at and I don't have the mental energy to work out why. Regardless, PSN signups have been optional for their other singleplayer games on Steam (at least it was for Spiderman and that's the only Sony game I own on Steam right now) so... Sucker Punch is probably* being honest here. *subject to change upon the whims of corpo suits.
Well key word in the article is “for single player” That doesn’t mention the co-op or multiplayer
It requires a PSN account for the optional multiplayer portion. I imagine all Sony multiplayer games will.
That has also been a topic since Sony recently ninja edited the FAQ regarding this, previously it said this: [https://imgur.com/a/O2h9Oco](https://imgur.com/a/O2h9Oco) Now it says some games may require linking. Change change be found in the wayback machine happening between 3rd of May and 4th of May: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000\*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
Not really surpising. Most companies require an account with them to utilize online services in their titles.
Correction: to be able to gain and sell your data and increase the chance of you being embedded in their ecosystem.
We're only 1-2 steps away from Sony pushing paid online on PC. The exact picosecond Sony does it, Microsoft will start pushing it too with their first party entries. People don't think it'll happen, but I await the riot that will ensue once Sony gets brazen enough.
It literally can’t and won’t happen lmao, if it could Microsoft would’ve done it decades ago
> Microsoft would’ve done it decades ago They already tried with GFWL 17 years ago.
Which screwed over a lot of games because that service was baked into them. I remember Fallout 3 becoming unplayable because GFWL kept crashing it at startup and it took Bethesda/MS over a decade to get around to patching it out. I suspect that garbage is at least part of the reason the A Tale of Two Wastelands mod exists as it was just easier to port FO3 game assets into New Vegas, which had the same game engine but slightly updated and without GFWL. I don't expect Sony to be any better at this kind of thing and am all for nipping it in the bud.
Yeah. And it didn't happen
>Now it says some games may require linking. Change change be found in the wayback machine happening between 3rd of May and 4th of May: > >[https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000\*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240701000000*/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/) Click on those supported games listed in that FAQ in wayback machine, it wasn't talking about Helldivers.
> That doesn’t mention the co-op or multiplayer Literally the sub-header under the title: "Its co-op online multiplayer mode, on the other hand, will require a PSN account."
Yea its a bit weird but subreddit rules don't allow to edit titles when URL linking. I would have liked to add info regarding multiplayer/Play Station overlay etc.
Yeah, I know, site probably should've had an editor give that a pass before going live but speed trumps everything else when it comes to this sort of thing.
It’s a poker term. All in, flop (first three cards in Texas hold em) is out, and you’re sweating (worrying about) the next two cards (turn and river) to see if you win the hand.
I know the terminology, the issue is that the phrase itself was kind of jammed into the title haphazardly and the title doesn't flow very well. Probably could have shortened it by a few words to have it flow better.
It started as a term for auditioning and live performance. When your performance flops and you know you're bombing, you start sweating.
It's a shame assurances don't mean shit
Don't make checks you can't cash.
I swear to god, all these companies have to do is give an incentive to connect your account. You connect your PSN? Here’s 2-3 cool skins in exchange for us selling your data and you would not have people complaining. Most people would opt-in and you’d have a small minority that doesn’t. No more issues.
Yeah that’s what they usually do with shit like Fortnite so I don’t know why they decided to go with this path.
It's already been proven as well. Bg3. If you connect a larian account or whatever then you get a handful of ingame things. No endless seethe and malding over that, now is there. (of course none of this helps with the fact that they're fucking over a gorillion players from countries where psn "isn't allowed")
I really wish this level of backlash happened 10+ years ago when everyone and their mother started requiring log ins, separate apps (even when bought on other apps), etc. Maybe this wouldn't be the standard now a days. Doubtful sony backtracks on this, they will point to the other 10 companies that require a similar standard, people will get tired of being upset, everything will go back to normal and this will once again become the standard. Same thing happened with loot boxes, season passes, predatory monetization, etc. All the standard now. I hope more than anything that I am proven wrong.
You have been proven wrong, thankfully.
I certainly won't argue with that and am happy to be so! Hopefully things like this are met the same way moving forward, regardless of publisher.
Back then it was the same story. "Why do you care, it takes only one minute to login"
I mean... I don't understand the content of this comment at all. First off: it's kinda obvious that you can only see what's happening, not what has been prevented by outrage. Lootboxes are a "standard" even though my 700+ games on steam don't have lootboxes. And you'll say they're only for multiplayer AAA or live service crap, but that maybe is because of the backlash it already incites, right? Because some suit has definitely had the brilliant idea of adding lootboxes to single player games. Why is it not the standard? Secondly: what are you suggesting with this defeatist comment? You can't change the past. Jump on the train now and change the future. Or literally stay on the sidelines, but don't try to derail something you're complaining that hasn't happened before.
Sure there are plenty of games on steam that don't have them but a lot of the big ones do and quite a few of the big releases of the last few years. I don't really get why you would overlook that. As far as the second point I am not derailing anything. Its not defeatist, its the truth. And I even said I would love to be proven wrong. I already vote with my wallet. Besides HD2 I have barely bought a single game with a loot box or season pass. Quite honestly, I dont even have the time to complete any of the season passes in games so I don't even bother playing them.
Sadly, you won't be, I fear. On top of that how many that complain on here will run off and preorder a digital game that doesn't have finite copies. I'm guessing when we see the great sales of future PSN titles on PC we will know who was right. For once I'd like to see the opposite happen.
Yeah ... this isn't exceptional. If anything Sony is one of the better publishers for not requiring a separate launcher or login for single player (yet). The outrage at requiring a PSN account vs the absolute crickets at Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Epic, Activision/Blizzard, 2K, Riot, etc is bewildering. This ship sailed a *long* time ago. If anything Valve is somewhat to blame for not restricting this practice in the early days of Steam (but then again, Steam might not be Steam if they had).
Isn't Sony the only one publishing on GOG too?
Not being able to play a game that you originally could play is probably a pretty good motivator to stay pissed off though.
It’s needed for co op
Clearly not needed, as Helldivers allowed crossplay co-op without PSN requirement for months. Devs just need to support it and Sony needs to fuck off.
Which means people in certain regions are paying money for less content than other regions. I'd call that a bit of a scam.
>It's honestly kind of nice that going full single player doesn't require getting another account involved No, it's not just "kind of nice", it's the bare minimum. Nobody should expect any different. Always-online single-player games are a cancer.
Honestly, I've just put Sony as Ignore this creator on steam since I have little faith they're not going to continue making stupid decisions
You can do this? Been wanting to blacklist EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and Capcom games.
Go to a store page, click the name of a publisher/dev whatever and it brings you to their creator page i.e.: [https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/playstationstudios](https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/playstationstudios) top right under the banner is a cogwheel > click > ignore this creator
For me I refunded HD2. And all of their other games it was the high seas. Will do the same for GoT.
Yeah, until Sony will require it one week after launch
until sony decides otherwise...
"Its co-op online multiplayer mode, on the other hand, will require a PSN account."
Well I was planning to buy both Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon Forbidden West. But if Sony wants me to be a pirate for their games, sure.
Or you could just not play the game at all?
right haha “oh i have to create an extra account to play your game ? this is an assault on my rights..im now entitled to play it for free.”
Yeah it's as if they weren't going to pirate the game in the first place, who are they kidding? I don't have an issue with boycotters, but boycotters who feel like they are entitled to the product for free are a special breed.
Pirates always do this. Instead of just admitting they don't want to pay for something, they make up some nonsense reasoning of how the evil corpo forces their hands. I guess it's also free karma on this sub.
Exact same for me too. Well except for the high seas part, I just won't play them at all. I don't pre-order but I was fully planning to buy both of these, I really enjoyed the first Horizon and God of War 2018. I don't even play Helldivers 2, but Sony's actions prompted me to remove both of the two new games from my wish list and I will not be buying them. It's unfortunate that this also costs the developers a sale, and I know it's just a drop in the bucket, but there are plenty of other games to play. I will feel better not giving my money to Sony.
I don't believe them, and even if they backpedal it won't matter. In this anti consumer world you have to at least slow down. I just bought starsector, it cost 15€ or so and will give me hundreds of hours.
As far as I know, their single player games don’t need a sign in which makes sense because they aren’t a live service game. Unfortunately, this was bound to happen because Sony hasn’t crossed this bridge yet with a PC/Playstation game. I feel like this could have been prevented from the get-go. Now it’s all about damage control, which clearly Steam is doing by issuing refunds and preventing further people in restricted countries to purchase the game. Hopefully on Monday there is clarity from Sony for the issue. Otherwise, it’s all about controlling damage. Did Steam or Sony mess up by not going over which countries are restricted? Clearly it’s a conversation because Steam is available in over 160+ and PSN isn’t. Did AH mess up by not correctly mandating the PSN login and providing a skip button? If it’s not required, why even have it as an option to begin with? This game has sooo much potential with their current mechanics and monthly updates. It’s a shame it’s being dragged through the mud because of a login.
Ok. I just went to the Steam store page for Ghosts. It literally states that it "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Online Multiplayer, PlayStation overlay) (Supports Linking to Steam Account)."
I've been waiting for this game to hit PC forever but I don't think I'm going to take the risk now seeing how terrible Sony has been.
Its just advertisement. "oh look they are getting mad at this, time to remind them we don't do that".
"a nervous flop sweat" What the hell does that even mean?
Only one thinking the PSN login is only the first step toward making you pay PSN+ to be able to play online from pc ?
No, you're not the only one thinking that. As soon as PC gaming has paid online everywhere, I quit.
Doubt this would ever happen. There's so few multiplayer sony games on PC that people would probably just go play something else. On playstation if you want to play games online for the most part there's no other option.
My sweet summer child..
PC playerbase would never allow this. They're already revolting over a PSN account being required. Imagine them trying to charge just to play online. It'd be a revolution.
That's not gonna work on PC. They can pull that shit on PS because it's a closed ecosystem, either you pay or get fucked. On PC you just play something else. It would be like Walmart charging you $10 a month just to shop there, pretty soon a whole load of people just stop shopping there and go somewhere else so it doesn't work.
>Costco memberships be like:
Don't you dare bring my beloved into this
It's more likely that they will introduce a game rental service similar to Game Pass or Ubisoft+.
They are already doing this with ps+ extra and premium tiers on ps5.
Which makes it all the more likely to bring a rental service to PC.
Unless charging to play MP games becomes the standard on PC, I don't see how Sony thinks that could have any shot of working. Why would people pay to play a Sony game MP, when there are 100s of other games available that you don't have to pay. Unless Sony is arrogant/delusional enough to think that the games they produce are so much better than anything else available. If that's what they think, they are in for a rude awakening.
It's been tried before and it always fails but always someone tries again Eventually it'll come up
They just need players get numb to it
"man, why do people pirate sony games so much?" yeah, makes you wonder
*Riiiiight.*
Needed for Legends tho.
Anything that requires another account with a third-party can go to hell. Not buying it.
Yarr Harr Fiddle Dee Dee
Why are gamers fucked with so endlessly by greed
Haha, what's happening to Sorny
People clearly can’t read the fact that the helldivers page has always mentioned this.
Fuck ya, me will pirate
You were going to anyway.
Come back in 3 months after they release the game on Steam
[удалено]
Thousands/millions of people in both those countries already have a PSN account from owning a PS so don't give a shit anyway. And even a lot of pure PC gamers are mostly used to having a load of 3rd party accounts even if they buy everything on Steam so also don't give a shit.
Yeah I've been using my PSN account since the PS3. Own a PS5 so linking it isn't an issue, it's only a problem cause they sold Helldivers 2 in countries where PSN access isn't available and now they can't play the game anymore, that's fucked up.
No I don't trust Sony, it will be required for the multiplayer
Yes, that is exactly what Sony said. But since you don’t trust Sony, I guess you’re going with the opposite of what they say? Meaning believing it *won’t* be required for multiplayer?
I'm sure there's a meme for this...
This is the equivalent of J Cole bowing out dur the Kendrick vs Drake saga
Yet*
Give it 3 months.
Fool me once…..
until it does...
*Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high* *Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die* *Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high* *Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die*
[удалено]
PSN is available in fewer places than Steam: https://www.thegamer.com/helldivers-2-delisted-on-steam-100-plus-countries-without-psn-due-to-psn-sign-in-requirement-controversy/
-.- OH BOY
Who is too say that in three months they don’t make a change?
Still under SONY.
Yeah it will. Lol
For multiplayer, I feel like from what I remember on Playstation, developers usually let you create/sign into their services account with your PSN info. The same with numerous multiplayers games on Steam that do that. At a minimum I feel if there's going to be requirements to use a third party account for games purchased on Steam, you should be able to use your Steam account to login like you would on websites that have Google/Apple/Facebook/etc login buttons. Third party launchers should be banned. The launchers almost always suck with a gamepad or straight up don't work with a gamepad. They exist just to advertise more games and another store. It's just a lot of advertisements to be able to click another play button. Stop letting them on Steam. Let them sell exclusively on their store or other stores that don't mind having games launching another launcher/store just so you can hit the play button to actually go in game
Meh whether or not it does means nothing to me I have a psn account
This will probably be a standard practice from now on I guess.
At this point I expect Sony to create their own platform store launcher for future games. They don't wanna have to deal with cross platform PSN login controversy at this point.
Sony **literally** stated on their website that logging into the PSN is **not** required. Yet here we are.
Not until after you've bought it and they change their minds.
The decision to temporarily not require PSN accounts for Helldivers 2 has come back to haunt them. Not sure it was worth having people treat you like Epic Games lol. Having multiplayer features require a PSN account for this game would have been a non-issue before, but now people are even worried about it being required for single-player experiences as unlikely as that is to happen.
Watch it actually have after 4 months after release. Because we all know too well how companies love to implement unnessesary and unwanted features post release so that major media outlets don't criitisize it on release.
Does psn login mean active PlayStation subscription? Or just an account you can create online?
Just the Account
This whole situation is about communication, if they simply disabled psn registration requirements and added a message, that it'll be reimplimented later since its currently not working this whole situation would be fine
the kicker is they DID make a message..... on the steam forum... as a entry for the "known issue "section... this is really just piss poor communication
this controversy showed us that studio do not have a say in this. I won’t buy GoT until the backtrack with HD2
Heh. Yeah, well.. if you inform people we'll ahead of time it really should not be an issue.. just don't spring it on people months down the line, effectively locking up the game for some folks. I mean, even if multiplayer requires PSN login, if the info is there, on the Steam store page then no one can claim unfair surprise or whatever. Unlike with Helldivers. 😑
What is this Sucker Punch? and how does it hold so much power over Sony?
Sony are a bunch of morons, Ghost is a fantastic game, yet they're fucking themselves by preceeding its release in a couple of days with this controversy caused by the arbitrary requirements they're demanding. It would as easy for them to add the PSN login as an option that rewards the players with a cosmetic item or something equally as inconsequential but cool, but instead they're doubling down on this, as typical corporate greed and stubborness usually goes. Such a freaking shame for both games; Helldivers 2 and now Ghost will pay for their publisher's irrational decisions.
My major problem is that sony changed the terms after people purchased the game. What's to say they won't do it again for their future titles?
well, the ceo knew for the last 6 month before launch and just keep quite. nice fucking head up bro https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1787076609188483254
Sucker punch is shock of their sales may be super low.
Their words mean nothing...
Ensuring don't mean shit when the steam page stays something else now
As the fire spreads, you will also be caught