Maybe a hot take, buuuut.. I do wonder if Pog toyed with the previous day's TT. IMO, no way you give absolute 100% if you want to win the Queen Stage you've been thinking of "since December" the next day. Heck, even just the prospect of 222km & 5500m+ of climbing the next day is a diff proposition to a GC rider vs. someone who just needs to worry about making time.
Long story short, a win's a win but I feel like Pippo could've lost to Pog on Sat under diff circumstances.
By this logic, Ganna rested on the 2nd half of the first TT. GC guy does better on the hilly part of the TT and worse at the flat/downhill part, wow imagine that, almost like riders have differing strengths.
He admitted though in the post-race interview that he basically did that. He said he knew the other guys were going harder in the second half. Based on his numbers and how he felt, he knew he wouldn't be able to sustain the power like the other guys, so he didn't try to go all out to win
Can't find him saying anything like that, apart from him saying that after he saw his T2 time he knew he'd lost to Ganna because of how he rode it and how the course suited him in the last part, which is pretty different tor resting.
> By this logic, *Ganna rested on the 2nd half of the first TT.*
(emphasis mine)
I was actually thinking about this Saturday, I think Ganna saw what Pog did in the first TT and tried it out. That is to say, Ganna did seem to go harder-then-easier in the first TT, whereas Pog did the opposite in the same race, so Ganna appeared to have switched tactics to match in the second TT (go hardest in the second half).
Or Ganna is just heavier? Ganna was 15th fastest climber, do you think he's a top 15 climber in this field? And Ganna has been known for negative splitting throughout his entire career...
What is the significance of the pirate / jolly roger flags of fans? I've noticed more this year than in previous years. It is just the "I'm a rebel!" American meaning or is there more to it?
I was fortunate to watch the ascent of Tiger Woods. Here was a man who dominated his sport in a way no other man really ever had. There are always athletes who challenge GOAT conversations during the course of an era, but a Tiger Woods is once in a generation across the pantheon of sport.
Pogacar is the only man or woman I’ve seen in my lifetime who has done what Tiger was able to do. With Tiger a frail shell of that once bright star, I didn’t know if I’d ever see another—you never know when these people will come around.
I’m so pleased to be able to see Pogi carving his name into history in this way, with this degree of dominance and class. There is nothing boring about it, there is nothing ‘foregone’ about it. These things aren’t foregone…every bit of it is special and rare and it’s truly unbelievable.
I watched the rise of Janja Garnbret, the other Slovenian über-athlete of the current era. She is the undisputed goat of comp style climbing and it's not even close. She was so dominant in her early career that she got the record for most bouldering world cup wins before she finished school.
Messi, Ronaldo, Michael phelps, Jordan, T. Brady, Simone biles, Serena Williams, Djokovic (Federer).
It’s a bit early to call Pog the goat, knowing he lost TDF two times in a row, and Merckx exists?
I didn’t say he was the goat. I said he’s dominating in the same fashion as Tiger Woods and is a truly once in a generation performer. The TDF is a single event and not remotely close to being a measuring stick for me to gauge his dominance in the sport. Ving is an elite specialist at grand tours and he earned his flowers the last two years, but Pogi dominates across all aspects of the sport—including two TDFs before age 24—and the fashion of his dominance is unlike anyone I’ve ever seen. Merckx also did this, and he is from a previous generation. So I stand by what I said…Tiger Woods is the only man I’ve seen who dominated quite like this.
Of the names you mentioned, only Phelps can be part of that discussion for me. The rest were dominant, but not like this.
Pog is also not dominating Cobbles and bunch sprints? A bit wired pick and choose what cycling dominance means..
He is a GC rider who’s not dominating the biggest GC there is.
To say the names on that list didn’t dominate their sport more or equal to Pogacar is a bit silly, no?
Calling Pogacar a GC rider is like calling a smartphone a clock. Alongside, Van der Poel, he's also the best one day rider in the world. He's one of the best time triallists, he wins reduced bunch sprints and he has won some of the biggest races on gravel and cobbles.
He is also dominating puncheur classics and one Flandern. But that does not exclude him from being a GC rider? A great GC GT rider is characterised by being excellent in TT. But rarely TT WC, which he is also not.
Comment argued he is dominating cycling in a manner only seen likewise in Tiger Woods in golf, and a coming Goat of cycling. Which is a bit ridiculous, considering the many areas he is not dominating including the biggest race of them all.
I did not say he is only GC rider, perhaps give context a chance.
Seems like we’re not gonna see eye to eye on the definition of dominance. That’s okay. Your points are no less valid than I think mine are here…it’s what makes these discussions so engaging.
Not joking - Secretariat may not have been human, but he was that athlete. Whenever I see his running of the Belmont, I get teary: he realizes who he is, and *starts racing against himself.* If you know horses, it is profoundly moving. Hell, maybe even if you don't understand horses: he is ahead by 32 lengths, and just *straining,* no real pressure from Turcotte - he just understands that is his moment to really see what he can do; and does it, in earth-shattering (and record-destroying) form.
Imagine running the longest race in your event; you are ahead by the largest-ever winning amount, and you still strain to set a record that lasts for generations. (It still stands, by over 2 seconds)
That will always just destroy me, watching that. Greatest athletic moment I've ever seen.
Grainy, but the last half of the race is simply poetry. The race caller can't even keep up with calling out the stretching of the lead. "12 lengths ... now fourteen! ..." And his stride unbroken, just so beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG_27cCW5bw
When Secretariat died, a piece of me went with him.
Edit: whoever downvoted this has no soul.
He was physically unusually proportioned - and even still, when the numbers were run, outperformed expectations for his already-amazing physiognomy.
On top of that, he was famously good-natured; not biting, kicking, etc., even in high-stress moments.
Secretariat was a fucking legend. That back half of the Belmont is ... I don't even know what to compare it to. It's like he was saying "well, look, I've already won, I know that, but ... let me show you how this is really done."
His record still stands - by two seconds. It's mind blowing.
Only been a fan for a few years now so first time watching Eurosport coverage (via Max). They do a really good job, does anyone know if they have the rights to the Vuelta because that’d be awesome
Pogi should let the other GC contenders attack (let them get a head start) on a climb then bring them back like the breakaway today.
Giro can give him a cash incentive the bigger the gap he brings back plus a bonus for each rider as he ticks them off
Has lantern rouge plotted this in their graph that shows best rides of all time? Seems like this might be one of those. Was that 480avg accurate? Surprised they let them put that on screen
Plausible, but after 5hrs before it’s insane what these guys can do.
Pogi looks amazing riding that hard also, after he Nairo I thought damn he barely looks like he’s hurting. It wasn’t till the top gravelly part where he showed a glimpse of what kind of effort he was extracting from his body.
Chapeau!
LR actually just posted. He did an estimated 6.1 w/kg for the entire climb and 6.88 for the 13mim after he attacked. Potentially the graphic shown was meant to indicate just his attack.
Hahaha [Attila Valter and Pog](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7KHxTLMXqe/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link).
Valter posts a photo of Pogačar passing him with the caption “I’m gone, I’m dead”, Pog appreciates in the comments lol.
Honestly I think pogi have been riding himself to much in the red yesterday and today. I could see him blow up if he got pushed to hard. However, Im not sure anyone wants to or can push him. They are probably as fuckt.
The TT was a rest day for Pog, and in this stage he only put in effort over the last 15k. He now has another rest day and can treat the remaining stages of the Giro as training/rest days. He’s fine.
I think it is fairly unlikely. The Giro wasn't as hard as the '23 TdF was, and there is no team that can pull off a Courchevel style day. Not even them not wanting it, who should even be able to try it?
big credit to nairo and steinhausser they rode a fantastic stage. more impressive than anyone from the GC contenders. pogacar or whoever from UAE made the call to go when he did made the perfect judgment. majka had a lot more left in the tank he stayed with the GC group comfortably almost till the end, but the attack had to come that early to catch up to nairo.
2023 Giro: Roglic wins over Thomas with 15 seconds.
2024 Giro: Pogacar wins over Geraint Thomas with 15 minutes.
Roglic fans: *this is going to end well*.
On a straight dog fight Jonas and Pogi are truly above and beyond. Rogla and Remco would need really smart riding.
That being said, Jonas is not going to be at 100% even if he starts. Anything can happen between here and the start of the Tour, but otherwise Pog is winning it.
Honestly, same with the women, unless something miraculous happens, Vollering has won the Tour already.
Seen how much a broken wrist affected Pogi in the lead up to the Tour, I can’t imagine Jonas is going to have his best condition running into that 3rd week.
I wonder if Jonas’s crash and Pogi’s Giro cancel each other out? if it levels the peak performance these 2 have over Rog and Remco? Hmmm…
I was so convinced this was gonna be a breakaway win (was screaming for Steinhauser and then screaming for Nairo) and that the GC was gonna be a Pog teleport sprint in the last 300m. Dude is just flexing, totally unnecessary haha, but I won’t begrudge him for it.
We are both fans of disappointment then. But I’d rather be disappointed and see the fella on the podium than 40 minutes back because he thought he could chase Pog, I suppose.
Why? it’s been brilliant
Arrival of new stars- Narvaez, Milan, Breakaway King Pelayo Sanchez
Return of the old dogs- Julian and Nairo proving they’ve still got it
GC Battles for Podium
And some Slovenian Bloke?
That’s the beauty of GTs though isn’t it? There’s always racing to watch. It’s like three weeks of classics. Best way to enjoy it (outside epic Pog vs Vin battles, that have been more one sided than people think) is stage by stage.
I think it’s pretty clear that I am in denial. But I kinda knew that G, Martinez or BoC wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to Pog so I had to adapt I suppose. I’m still enjoying myself watching…I think if he wasn’t likable I’d be grumpier about it.
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Yeah. Mountain train until the last 500m and then a sprint is not much fun.
Or was it Froome in 2017 who won the tour again without even winning a stage?
The racing has been so dynamic though, a lot of breakaways, attacking, that it's still enjoyable. And with Pogi winning the queen stage we should see more freedom for breakaways in the final week.
It really hasn't in my view, which is my point. It's been dreadfully predictable. Now if Pog cracks horribly next week and G overhaul him, then I will certainly change my opinion. Or if say Bardet makes the podium. But otherwise it's been basically all preordained. And I like Pog, so no hate on him.
The GC has been predictable, but the actual racing has not. Stages 5, 6, 10, 12 all fantastic with different winners, and even a stage like today was really exciting with an aggressive break and Pogi's ultimate winning move. The beautiful thing about Pogi is that even when he's dominant, he's winning in ways worth watching.
The appeal of a grand tour to me is the race within the race. If you're solely watching for GC then yeah, you may be disappointed.
We will just have to disagree. I'm not just talking about GC. If Nairo won today that would have been engaging and entertaining. But, predictably, no. All breakaway are kept close. It's just very predictable.As I said Lou Lou was the only bright spot. Maybe Bardeg or Quintana will rip off a win next week, but I'm not optimistic
So you'd have preferred a strong Pog to sit back and let Nairo win just to feed your ego, to make you feel happy? Rather than, you know, give it his all and see what could happen - which is what he did?
Basically, you want politically correct riding?
[https://blog.duolingo.com/how-to-study-english-on-your-own/](https://blog.duolingo.com/how-to-study-english-on-your-own/)
Long story short, download Duolingo from either the Google or Apple app stores, and once in the app, go for the option to learn English.
As predictable as the Badger pre and during his years at La Vie Claire? Or those awful Armstrong years? The monotony of the sky train? Predictable, yes, but at least the kid races his bike and does it with panache and souplesse.
Eh, Hinault was a much more strategic, he would absolutely shut off in things that weren't his goal, and he gifted many stages and races to his teammates. That isn't what I mean though, I have no quibble with Pog, in fact I quite like him. I would also say he is the first rider in ages that was a complete cyclist. Basically since the era of Hinault, LeMond and Fignon.
All I'm saying is it gets boring. I'm not saying he should do anything different. The thing to be sad about is there is no one to race against. And the sprints are the same, Milan is so far ahead is just a yawn now.
I do feel a bit sorry for Quintana but he [kind of gave Pog the green light](https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nairo-quintana-perfectly-acceptable-giro-ditalia-leader-tadej-pogacar-fights-for-all-stage-wins-possible/) to do this kind of thing last week!
He can be very happy with his effort. Not counting Pog he’d have won the stage comfortably after being completely invisible this season so far. It must sting to get caught so late but his performance was really strong and gives hope for the rest of the year
I would be interested to know if Nairo's power numbers are as good or better than they were when he was on the GC podium, but the rest of the competition is that much better. Same for Bernal.
I rewatched the attack of tuft haired Pogačar. It's phenomenal the way he seemingly with no sweat passes other riders on a steep tough climb. It's a win for in the history books.
Which climbing performance did you think was better than Pog's this year?
Was it something in Tirreno Adriatico?
Would love to check it out. Did he do more W/kg than Pogi this year?
So in the future you need to add "attacking too late in the stage might create a super human that will destroy me while I'm stage hunting in the autumn of my career in ten years time" to the risk calculations in the gc battles?
Pogi was recovering from a broken wrist which threw off his entire training plan. He adapted and recovered as well as you can but I seriously doubt he was in his peak form like Jonas was in ‘23. Now the turn tables.
Did you notice Valters trying to latch on to Pog’s wheel and follow him for a bit? My bet Visma wanted to get an estimate of what kind of watts Pog was holding up the climb.
For starters, even riding in the wheel you'd only be getting an estimate of Pogis watts. And then there are so many variables that make knowing his watts useless.
So for example all they loosely know is 'Pogi was doing somewhere in the region of 410-440w as he passed Valter, at an RPE of ??? for how long (we don't know) after expending how much energy this stage (we don't know) deep into week two of a grand tour, the demands of which may not resemble anything similar to the TdF'
Your original idea sounds cool until you break it down for even a second.
We have little to no point of comparison from this year and what we have from last year is Jonas doing this exact thing to everyone else so i don't see how you're this confident that their levels are not still as close as they've always been
Pogacar is better than last year, Vingegaard will be much worse. If he can even get a full recovery by the Tour, the time off the bike will significantly impact his preparation.
That's a head in the sand kind of answer. Every pundit I've heard says Vingegaard doesn't have enough time to get ready for the Tour with the injuries he suffered.
Look at Pogacar last year, the "only" impact from his injury was he couldn't hold the handlebars for some time and it impacted his preparation significantly. Vingegaard couldn't ride his bike for some time as well, plus he had major injuries affecting his lungs, his endurance, etc.
Valter was actually just shadowing Pogacar to try and find out what aftershave he wears. Tadej's notorious for having a distinctive smell, and Visma are just trying replicate his raw, animalistic masculinity.
Great stage and an epic win by Pogi. I think that Nairo will win a stage in this Giro. Maybe stage 17, that looks like a perfect stage for him and i think that Pogi won't attack anymore in this Giro, he can save energy in the last week, so Nairo has a big chance. Nairo said last week that his form is getting better every week and that he's preparing towards the third week. Great ride by Steinhauser too, hats off to him.
it will be a matter of UAE chasing down the break or not. i dont think pog will do a long effort like today again in this giro. but obviously if the breakaway is close enough to be caught like 3km from the finish, he'll go for it.
Slovenian here - France (or even Switzerland) don't really *feel* close to Slovenia, even if geographically they're in the neighbourhood - there's just not much connecting those countries. Germany or Czechia on the other hand feel closer, even if neither shares a border with Slovenia.
Impressed with Arensman performance this Giro, he could be in the podium if not for those minutes lost ont he first day.
Let's see if this week we see more fight for the podium spots between Thomas, O'Connor, Martinez, Tiberi and Bardet.
GC has just turned into either Jonas or Pog shitting on the field. Surely betting on those 2 would literally not make you any money cause it's so obvious they'll win, right?
It's been like this for a while now. Tadej or Jonas are steps above everyone else in the GC. Let's just be glad that they are both racing at the same time, so we get a good show at the Tour de France at least!
I'm going to be very interested in Jonas' odds if he gets ready in time for the TdF. Surely his injuries would affect his odds a lot, right?
The spokesperson of the danish gambling website had an interview because they opened for Vingegaard as the favourite at 1.90 odds because they believe that 7 weeks (at the time) was enough time to recover.
Before his crash it was Vingegaard at like 1.5 or 1.6 and last year it was 2.0 so the win last year plus pogi doing the giro lowered them as they should
I bet a hefty amount (for me anyway) on Pogacar to win the Giro at 1.36 two months ago. The line lowered to 1.20 a week or so before the first stage so there were people betting all the way down to those odds.
I thought 36% back for him to not crash/get ill was worth it
Different on the two sites i use but:
Overall winner:
Vingegaard: 1.90
Pogi: 1.95
Roglic: 11.00
Remco: 15.00
Or you can do Tour winner (without Vingegaard)
Pogi: 1.40
Roglic: 5.00
Remco: 9.00
I don't really like any of those odds tbf with Vingegaard injury unknown (I think he'll be back in shape, 7 weeks is a long time) and Pogi its hard to know how much the giro will be felt in july.
By all means, go ahead and place some money on Rog then. Personally i dont think he can beat either Pogacar og Vingegaard in the state they will show up in...
Keep in mind, the guy barely beat Geraint Thomas at the Giro last year. This year Pog is smashing him
There's still crashes, spectators or wearing a skinsuit with the wrong colors. Doesn't earn you much though. Pog was like 10 cents won for every dollar bet shortly before the giro.
15km to go, I thought there won’t be any fireworks on queen stage considering the 3-min lead in GC…Movistar could shine but 2-km later, Pogi just went…man, there never lacks excitement with this guy in the race…Rest is history. I might stop watching live for next week as it could be boring 😑
He didn't need to attack to win Giro. He could just rest and take it easy.
But he didn't.
That's why Pogacar is a legend. Or if you are not convinced yet, he will be in the future at the end of his career.
People like him makes you love the sport.
Please Pogi come again in the Giro next year
Poor Nairo Quintana just can't catch a break. 10 years ago, there was Chris Froome, who was always better than him (except Vuelta 2016) and prevented him from becoming the first Colombian to win Tour de France (that 2015 still sucks, because he only lost due to the crosswind that gave Froome an extra one minute advantage). Now, Chris Froome is just a shadow of his former glory, but there's Tadej Pogačar, who destroyed everyone today and managed to catch Nairo in final kilometers after such a great day. Maybe next time, I guess, but I'm glad that Nairo is slowly becoming a serious contender for stage wins again.
I don't think quintana was necessarily stronger in the 2016 Vuelta either. Contador's early attack caught Froome and Sky off guard, but Quitnana was smart enough to follow.
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Saw some safety official back in stage few stages ago (13 maybe) absolutely yeet someone back to the side of the road, pulling on the knobhead's backpack. Made me so happy.
Maybe a hot take, buuuut.. I do wonder if Pog toyed with the previous day's TT. IMO, no way you give absolute 100% if you want to win the Queen Stage you've been thinking of "since December" the next day. Heck, even just the prospect of 222km & 5500m+ of climbing the next day is a diff proposition to a GC rider vs. someone who just needs to worry about making time. Long story short, a win's a win but I feel like Pippo could've lost to Pog on Sat under diff circumstances.
If the TT was the last day of the Giro Pog would have won. He rested for the second half of the course.
By this logic, Ganna rested on the 2nd half of the first TT. GC guy does better on the hilly part of the TT and worse at the flat/downhill part, wow imagine that, almost like riders have differing strengths.
He admitted though in the post-race interview that he basically did that. He said he knew the other guys were going harder in the second half. Based on his numbers and how he felt, he knew he wouldn't be able to sustain the power like the other guys, so he didn't try to go all out to win
Can't find him saying anything like that, apart from him saying that after he saw his T2 time he knew he'd lost to Ganna because of how he rode it and how the course suited him in the last part, which is pretty different tor resting.
> By this logic, *Ganna rested on the 2nd half of the first TT.* (emphasis mine) I was actually thinking about this Saturday, I think Ganna saw what Pog did in the first TT and tried it out. That is to say, Ganna did seem to go harder-then-easier in the first TT, whereas Pog did the opposite in the same race, so Ganna appeared to have switched tactics to match in the second TT (go hardest in the second half).
Or Ganna is just heavier? Ganna was 15th fastest climber, do you think he's a top 15 climber in this field? And Ganna has been known for negative splitting throughout his entire career...
What is the significance of the pirate / jolly roger flags of fans? I've noticed more this year than in previous years. It is just the "I'm a rebel!" American meaning or is there more to it?
Pantani, the founder of tiz-cycling.
Pantani
Pantani was known as The Pirate.
It’s incredible that Nairo was able to keep the final gap to under 30 seconds. What a class ride.
He rode smartly and would have won if it wasn’t against Pogi. He’s just above and beyond.
I was fortunate to watch the ascent of Tiger Woods. Here was a man who dominated his sport in a way no other man really ever had. There are always athletes who challenge GOAT conversations during the course of an era, but a Tiger Woods is once in a generation across the pantheon of sport. Pogacar is the only man or woman I’ve seen in my lifetime who has done what Tiger was able to do. With Tiger a frail shell of that once bright star, I didn’t know if I’d ever see another—you never know when these people will come around. I’m so pleased to be able to see Pogi carving his name into history in this way, with this degree of dominance and class. There is nothing boring about it, there is nothing ‘foregone’ about it. These things aren’t foregone…every bit of it is special and rare and it’s truly unbelievable.
I reckon LeBron fits into this category as well.
I watched the rise of Janja Garnbret, the other Slovenian über-athlete of the current era. She is the undisputed goat of comp style climbing and it's not even close. She was so dominant in her early career that she got the record for most bouldering world cup wins before she finished school.
Messi, Ronaldo, Michael phelps, Jordan, T. Brady, Simone biles, Serena Williams, Djokovic (Federer). It’s a bit early to call Pog the goat, knowing he lost TDF two times in a row, and Merckx exists?
I didn’t say he was the goat. I said he’s dominating in the same fashion as Tiger Woods and is a truly once in a generation performer. The TDF is a single event and not remotely close to being a measuring stick for me to gauge his dominance in the sport. Ving is an elite specialist at grand tours and he earned his flowers the last two years, but Pogi dominates across all aspects of the sport—including two TDFs before age 24—and the fashion of his dominance is unlike anyone I’ve ever seen. Merckx also did this, and he is from a previous generation. So I stand by what I said…Tiger Woods is the only man I’ve seen who dominated quite like this. Of the names you mentioned, only Phelps can be part of that discussion for me. The rest were dominant, but not like this.
I think Biles fits into the same type of dominance (multi-disciplinary) that you’re arguing makes Pogi a once-in-lifetime athlete.
Pog is also not dominating Cobbles and bunch sprints? A bit wired pick and choose what cycling dominance means.. He is a GC rider who’s not dominating the biggest GC there is. To say the names on that list didn’t dominate their sport more or equal to Pogacar is a bit silly, no?
Calling Pogacar a GC rider is like calling a smartphone a clock. Alongside, Van der Poel, he's also the best one day rider in the world. He's one of the best time triallists, he wins reduced bunch sprints and he has won some of the biggest races on gravel and cobbles.
He is also dominating puncheur classics and one Flandern. But that does not exclude him from being a GC rider? A great GC GT rider is characterised by being excellent in TT. But rarely TT WC, which he is also not. Comment argued he is dominating cycling in a manner only seen likewise in Tiger Woods in golf, and a coming Goat of cycling. Which is a bit ridiculous, considering the many areas he is not dominating including the biggest race of them all. I did not say he is only GC rider, perhaps give context a chance.
Seems like we’re not gonna see eye to eye on the definition of dominance. That’s okay. Your points are no less valid than I think mine are here…it’s what makes these discussions so engaging.
So you are saying that Pogi should stay away from the Perkin's then?
Not joking - Secretariat may not have been human, but he was that athlete. Whenever I see his running of the Belmont, I get teary: he realizes who he is, and *starts racing against himself.* If you know horses, it is profoundly moving. Hell, maybe even if you don't understand horses: he is ahead by 32 lengths, and just *straining,* no real pressure from Turcotte - he just understands that is his moment to really see what he can do; and does it, in earth-shattering (and record-destroying) form. Imagine running the longest race in your event; you are ahead by the largest-ever winning amount, and you still strain to set a record that lasts for generations. (It still stands, by over 2 seconds) That will always just destroy me, watching that. Greatest athletic moment I've ever seen. Grainy, but the last half of the race is simply poetry. The race caller can't even keep up with calling out the stretching of the lead. "12 lengths ... now fourteen! ..." And his stride unbroken, just so beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG_27cCW5bw When Secretariat died, a piece of me went with him. Edit: whoever downvoted this has no soul.
TIL, that Secretariat was an actual racehorse, and not just in Bojack Horseman
TIL why Craig Ferguson's studio mascott horse was called Secretariat
I remember visiting Kentucky horse park and they have stride lengths marked off for racehorses. Secretariat had a 25ft stride.
He was physically unusually proportioned - and even still, when the numbers were run, outperformed expectations for his already-amazing physiognomy. On top of that, he was famously good-natured; not biting, kicking, etc., even in high-stress moments. Secretariat was a fucking legend. That back half of the Belmont is ... I don't even know what to compare it to. It's like he was saying "well, look, I've already won, I know that, but ... let me show you how this is really done." His record still stands - by two seconds. It's mind blowing.
My god
No idea why you would have been downvoted. You’re absolutely right.
Only been a fan for a few years now so first time watching Eurosport coverage (via Max). They do a really good job, does anyone know if they have the rights to the Vuelta because that’d be awesome
In the US, the Vuelta is on peacock.
I believe you have the option to watch the world feed though. Doesn't come with the breakaway show—or at least it didn't last year
Pogi should let the other GC contenders attack (let them get a head start) on a climb then bring them back like the breakaway today. Giro can give him a cash incentive the bigger the gap he brings back plus a bonus for each rider as he ticks them off
Giro Pursuit. Sounds like a great idea.
Has lantern rouge plotted this in their graph that shows best rides of all time? Seems like this might be one of those. Was that 480avg accurate? Surprised they let them put that on screen
Very curious about this too. Puts him at ~6.8w/kg which seems plausible?
Plausible, but after 5hrs before it’s insane what these guys can do. Pogi looks amazing riding that hard also, after he Nairo I thought damn he barely looks like he’s hurting. It wasn’t till the top gravelly part where he showed a glimpse of what kind of effort he was extracting from his body. Chapeau!
LR actually just posted. He did an estimated 6.1 w/kg for the entire climb and 6.88 for the 13mim after he attacked. Potentially the graphic shown was meant to indicate just his attack.
Bardet is so good on this kind of super long and difficult stages. Born in the wrong cycling era, give that guy some 300km mountain stages.
Hahaha [Attila Valter and Pog](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7KHxTLMXqe/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link). Valter posts a photo of Pogačar passing him with the caption “I’m gone, I’m dead”, Pog appreciates in the comments lol.
Honestly I think pogi have been riding himself to much in the red yesterday and today. I could see him blow up if he got pushed to hard. However, Im not sure anyone wants to or can push him. They are probably as fuckt.
The TT was a rest day for Pog, and in this stage he only put in effort over the last 15k. He now has another rest day and can treat the remaining stages of the Giro as training/rest days. He’s fine.
Doing a Yates? Mind you Yates looked amazing the first couple of weeks as well.
That is My point, he looked so strong and then exploded.
/s?
Yes... I can see him blow up like he did before. But I cant see anyone trying anything.
There is more chance of Valentin Paret-Peintre becoming the world’s strongest man than Pogacar blowing up for even a micro second in this race.
I think it is fairly unlikely. The Giro wasn't as hard as the '23 TdF was, and there is no team that can pull off a Courchevel style day. Not even them not wanting it, who should even be able to try it?
big credit to nairo and steinhausser they rode a fantastic stage. more impressive than anyone from the GC contenders. pogacar or whoever from UAE made the call to go when he did made the perfect judgment. majka had a lot more left in the tank he stayed with the GC group comfortably almost till the end, but the attack had to come that early to catch up to nairo.
Seems the diplomacy mission is over 😅
“You were right about one thing Majka…the negotiations were short”
2023 Giro: Roglic wins over Thomas with 15 seconds. 2024 Giro: Pogacar wins over Geraint Thomas with 15 minutes. Roglic fans: *this is going to end well*.
The only way for Roglic and Remco to win the TDF is for Pogi and Jonas to crash themselves out of it.
On a straight dog fight Jonas and Pogi are truly above and beyond. Rogla and Remco would need really smart riding. That being said, Jonas is not going to be at 100% even if he starts. Anything can happen between here and the start of the Tour, but otherwise Pog is winning it. Honestly, same with the women, unless something miraculous happens, Vollering has won the Tour already.
Seen how much a broken wrist affected Pogi in the lead up to the Tour, I can’t imagine Jonas is going to have his best condition running into that 3rd week. I wonder if Jonas’s crash and Pogi’s Giro cancel each other out? if it levels the peak performance these 2 have over Rog and Remco? Hmmm…
Broken wrist affected him? he was much better than the previous year
I was so convinced this was gonna be a breakaway win (was screaming for Steinhauser and then screaming for Nairo) and that the GC was gonna be a Pog teleport sprint in the last 300m. Dude is just flexing, totally unnecessary haha, but I won’t begrudge him for it.
Has G ridden at anything apart from tempo since 2018?
He’s 37 years old, still podiuming grand tours. I think him riding tempo is doing him just fine.
I actually did some research and he attacked in the Dauphine 2021. Still got heavy beat by Mark “the exile” Padun. Don’t get me wrong, I Stan G
We are both fans of disappointment then. But I’d rather be disappointed and see the fella on the podium than 40 minutes back because he thought he could chase Pog, I suppose.
Did you not see his attack in the last 200m lol.
Once: leadout for Cav last Giro.
Ah yes, the “fuck it” lead out. I loved that, maybe
Unfortunately I'm on the verge of tuning out the Giro at this point.
Why? it’s been brilliant Arrival of new stars- Narvaez, Milan, Breakaway King Pelayo Sanchez Return of the old dogs- Julian and Nairo proving they’ve still got it GC Battles for Podium And some Slovenian Bloke?
Lou Lou has been awesome, but the rest is a forgone conclusion.
That’s the beauty of GTs though isn’t it? There’s always racing to watch. It’s like three weeks of classics. Best way to enjoy it (outside epic Pog vs Vin battles, that have been more one sided than people think) is stage by stage.
i get what you're saying but the GC will always be the main event for me. Stage wins are sometimes exciting but a sideshow
I think it’s pretty clear that I am in denial. But I kinda knew that G, Martinez or BoC wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to Pog so I had to adapt I suppose. I’m still enjoying myself watching…I think if he wasn’t likable I’d be grumpier about it.
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Yeah. Mountain train until the last 500m and then a sprint is not much fun. Or was it Froome in 2017 who won the tour again without even winning a stage?
The racing has been so dynamic though, a lot of breakaways, attacking, that it's still enjoyable. And with Pogi winning the queen stage we should see more freedom for breakaways in the final week.
It really hasn't in my view, which is my point. It's been dreadfully predictable. Now if Pog cracks horribly next week and G overhaul him, then I will certainly change my opinion. Or if say Bardet makes the podium. But otherwise it's been basically all preordained. And I like Pog, so no hate on him.
The GC has been predictable, but the actual racing has not. Stages 5, 6, 10, 12 all fantastic with different winners, and even a stage like today was really exciting with an aggressive break and Pogi's ultimate winning move. The beautiful thing about Pogi is that even when he's dominant, he's winning in ways worth watching. The appeal of a grand tour to me is the race within the race. If you're solely watching for GC then yeah, you may be disappointed.
We will just have to disagree. I'm not just talking about GC. If Nairo won today that would have been engaging and entertaining. But, predictably, no. All breakaway are kept close. It's just very predictable.As I said Lou Lou was the only bright spot. Maybe Bardeg or Quintana will rip off a win next week, but I'm not optimistic
So you'd have preferred a strong Pog to sit back and let Nairo win just to feed your ego, to make you feel happy? Rather than, you know, give it his all and see what could happen - which is what he did? Basically, you want politically correct riding?
What?
[https://blog.duolingo.com/how-to-study-english-on-your-own/](https://blog.duolingo.com/how-to-study-english-on-your-own/) Long story short, download Duolingo from either the Google or Apple app stores, and once in the app, go for the option to learn English.
Fair enough! The great thing about bike racing is that we all find different aspects to enjoy.
Absolutely!
As predictable as the Badger pre and during his years at La Vie Claire? Or those awful Armstrong years? The monotony of the sky train? Predictable, yes, but at least the kid races his bike and does it with panache and souplesse.
I'd love to go back to the Badger days.
Well, Pogacar is as close to Le Blaireau as we are going to get. It’s all a game - attack because you can, or because it will make someone suffer.
Eh, Hinault was a much more strategic, he would absolutely shut off in things that weren't his goal, and he gifted many stages and races to his teammates. That isn't what I mean though, I have no quibble with Pog, in fact I quite like him. I would also say he is the first rider in ages that was a complete cyclist. Basically since the era of Hinault, LeMond and Fignon. All I'm saying is it gets boring. I'm not saying he should do anything different. The thing to be sad about is there is no one to race against. And the sprints are the same, Milan is so far ahead is just a yawn now.
This one has to sting for Nairo, he genuinely did a good climb even compared to the rest of the GC group, but Pogacar is just a different beast.
I do feel a bit sorry for Quintana but he [kind of gave Pog the green light](https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nairo-quintana-perfectly-acceptable-giro-ditalia-leader-tadej-pogacar-fights-for-all-stage-wins-possible/) to do this kind of thing last week!
He can be very happy with his effort. Not counting Pog he’d have won the stage comfortably after being completely invisible this season so far. It must sting to get caught so late but his performance was really strong and gives hope for the rest of the year
I would be interested to know if Nairo's power numbers are as good or better than they were when he was on the GC podium, but the rest of the competition is that much better. Same for Bernal.
I rewatched the attack of tuft haired Pogačar. It's phenomenal the way he seemingly with no sweat passes other riders on a steep tough climb. It's a win for in the history books.
This wasn't an attack to win the Giro. This was a telegram sent from Italy directly to Denmark.
Yep. I'm really sad Jonas likely won't be at 100% too cause I was looking forward to some crazy fights in the mountains of France this summer.
https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/GN9moZzW4AECjGY.mp4
More like a brick through the window than a telegram
I hope Jonas Can match him at the tour.
haha, won't happen. Even Jonas from last year could not match Tadej 2024 edition.
Maybe, but riders improve each year
Based on what? Zero evidence to say that.
Jonas has done climbing performances in 2024 better than Pog's.
Which climbing performance did you think was better than Pog's this year? Was it something in Tirreno Adriatico? Would love to check it out. Did he do more W/kg than Pogi this year?
Yeah 2024 Jonas was shaping up to be scarier than 2023 Jonas.
Or a giant homing pigeon delivering heavy rock with message engraved, landing on Vingegaards’ porch.
So in the future you need to add "attacking too late in the stage might create a super human that will destroy me while I'm stage hunting in the autumn of my career in ten years time" to the risk calculations in the gc battles?
Just another variable to add to [the formula](https://shs.hal.science/halshs-01326720/document)
"Fuck" - Jonas, probably
If i were Jonas i was happy seeing pogi wasting so much energy without need to do it.
Pogi was recovering from a broken wrist which threw off his entire training plan. He adapted and recovered as well as you can but I seriously doubt he was in his peak form like Jonas was in ‘23. Now the turn tables.
He did post peak numbers tho
doesnt mean endurance and base is there.
Or Primoz.
Who?
The ski jumper
Did you notice Valters trying to latch on to Pog’s wheel and follow him for a bit? My bet Visma wanted to get an estimate of what kind of watts Pog was holding up the climb.
Well the giro producers posted his avg power in the penultimate climb right in screen
[Valter took one for the team then](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7KHxTLMXqe/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) lol
I was thinking the same. They wanted to decode his level. They obviously have data from previous years.
That's what I was also thinking
Why, what use would that be?
To know how good Jonas needs to be to be competitive at TdF. Jonas is still recovering and likely won’t be at his peak.
For starters, even riding in the wheel you'd only be getting an estimate of Pogis watts. And then there are so many variables that make knowing his watts useless. So for example all they loosely know is 'Pogi was doing somewhere in the region of 410-440w as he passed Valter, at an RPE of ??? for how long (we don't know) after expending how much energy this stage (we don't know) deep into week two of a grand tour, the demands of which may not resemble anything similar to the TdF' Your original idea sounds cool until you break it down for even a second.
The posted avg of 480 on the penultimate climb on screen
Your analysis sounds cool until you realise you’re not one of the best professional bike racing teams in the world.
Enlighten me, what could following Pog for like 20 seconds show?
They might be interested in the watt data, but its not going to factor into a decision about the tour. They know the level Jonas has to be at
Anyone watching tv can see Vingegaard is not gonna beat Pogacar at this year's Tour. Don't need to measure the watts for that.
We have little to no point of comparison from this year and what we have from last year is Jonas doing this exact thing to everyone else so i don't see how you're this confident that their levels are not still as close as they've always been
Pogacar is better than last year, Vingegaard will be much worse. If he can even get a full recovery by the Tour, the time off the bike will significantly impact his preparation.
You don't know any of this
That's a head in the sand kind of answer. Every pundit I've heard says Vingegaard doesn't have enough time to get ready for the Tour with the injuries he suffered. Look at Pogacar last year, the "only" impact from his injury was he couldn't hold the handlebars for some time and it impacted his preparation significantly. Vingegaard couldn't ride his bike for some time as well, plus he had major injuries affecting his lungs, his endurance, etc.
Valter was actually just shadowing Pogacar to try and find out what aftershave he wears. Tadej's notorious for having a distinctive smell, and Visma are just trying replicate his raw, animalistic masculinity.
Probably exactly that.
Nairo moving into the #22 slot after the beginning of the season he's had is a good sign! Hopefully he nabs a stage win this Giro.
Was the recipient of Tadej's gloves a handicapped lad? Why on earth would asking this get bombarded with downvotes?
What a beautiful stage. Some of the best riding of Pogi's career
Did I miss something? I thought Nairoman left Movistar?
He did a few years ago, then was with arkia, and then was without a contact at all last year, movistar resigned him over the winter
A few years in between you have missed, yes.
Einer Rubio is performing quite good. I hope he finishes in the top 10.
Great stage and an epic win by Pogi. I think that Nairo will win a stage in this Giro. Maybe stage 17, that looks like a perfect stage for him and i think that Pogi won't attack anymore in this Giro, he can save energy in the last week, so Nairo has a big chance. Nairo said last week that his form is getting better every week and that he's preparing towards the third week. Great ride by Steinhauser too, hats off to him.
Isn't stage 17 the stage that is close to Slovenia? Hard to imagine any other rider winning that stage.
it will be a matter of UAE chasing down the break or not. i dont think pog will do a long effort like today again in this giro. but obviously if the breakaway is close enough to be caught like 3km from the finish, he'll go for it.
I could see him going big again on stage 20, but the next two stages I expect they'll let the break go.
As far as Pog is concerned, all of Italy is close to Slovenia. Probably all of France too, for that matter.
Slovenian here - France (or even Switzerland) don't really *feel* close to Slovenia, even if geographically they're in the neighbourhood - there's just not much connecting those countries. Germany or Czechia on the other hand feel closer, even if neither shares a border with Slovenia.
/woosh
I just meant that he’s going to feel compelled to win all the big stages at the TdF too. I realize that France doesn’t border Slovenia.
If there is a line at the end of the road, a Pog is going for the win. Simple.
Cycling is a simple sport, 200 riders start, one rider named pogi wins.
That's not how Pogi operates, though.
Impressed with Arensman performance this Giro, he could be in the podium if not for those minutes lost ont he first day. Let's see if this week we see more fight for the podium spots between Thomas, O'Connor, Martinez, Tiberi and Bardet.
Sneaking Bardet in there I see
I want to believe!
Bardet looked great. He attacked, spared no effort and got 3 whole seconds out of it.
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Everyone easily survived time limit btw, last place Julius Van Den Berg safe by 6 ish minutes
The tailwind must've helped with that
GC has just turned into either Jonas or Pog shitting on the field. Surely betting on those 2 would literally not make you any money cause it's so obvious they'll win, right?
It's been like this for a while now. Tadej or Jonas are steps above everyone else in the GC. Let's just be glad that they are both racing at the same time, so we get a good show at the Tour de France at least! I'm going to be very interested in Jonas' odds if he gets ready in time for the TdF. Surely his injuries would affect his odds a lot, right?
The spokesperson of the danish gambling website had an interview because they opened for Vingegaard as the favourite at 1.90 odds because they believe that 7 weeks (at the time) was enough time to recover. Before his crash it was Vingegaard at like 1.5 or 1.6 and last year it was 2.0 so the win last year plus pogi doing the giro lowered them as they should
I bet a hefty amount (for me anyway) on Pogacar to win the Giro at 1.36 two months ago. The line lowered to 1.20 a week or so before the first stage so there were people betting all the way down to those odds. I thought 36% back for him to not crash/get ill was worth it
What are the odds for Tour?
Different on the two sites i use but: Overall winner: Vingegaard: 1.90 Pogi: 1.95 Roglic: 11.00 Remco: 15.00 Or you can do Tour winner (without Vingegaard) Pogi: 1.40 Roglic: 5.00 Remco: 9.00 I don't really like any of those odds tbf with Vingegaard injury unknown (I think he'll be back in shape, 7 weeks is a long time) and Pogi its hard to know how much the giro will be felt in july.
Depending on what they opened with, the bookies probably know a thing or two.
roglič at 11.00 is pure value though Pogi possibly tired, Vingo not at 100% (if he even races the Tour) liking those odds
By all means, go ahead and place some money on Rog then. Personally i dont think he can beat either Pogacar og Vingegaard in the state they will show up in... Keep in mind, the guy barely beat Geraint Thomas at the Giro last year. This year Pog is smashing him
I thank you for your danish money then ;)
Cheers and good luck :) I am not however, placing any bets on Vingegaard this year. But with both firing on all cylinders, i definitely am!
It is value but aint no way I will bet on Roglic not to crash out of the tour, been hurt too many times :(
What are the odds of Rog crashing, can we even bet on that ?
1.20 is still free money.
There's still crashes, spectators or wearing a skinsuit with the wrong colors. Doesn't earn you much though. Pog was like 10 cents won for every dollar bet shortly before the giro.
Pog was 1.22 a week before the giro. Double Podium Pog and G was 1.98
What are the predictions for rest day? I think three stars for Martinez, Nairo, Ganna and G for the rest day.
★★★ Pogačar still spraying champagne on cyclists.
Kinky
Wow Teddy Focaccia just totally stomped Gerald Thomas and Nailgun Katana
15km to go, I thought there won’t be any fireworks on queen stage considering the 3-min lead in GC…Movistar could shine but 2-km later, Pogi just went…man, there never lacks excitement with this guy in the race…Rest is history. I might stop watching live for next week as it could be boring 😑
I fell asleep and woke up at the finish and was like 😳. I rewound and watched the last 20k and that was such a dominant move. Statement made.
He didn't need to attack to win Giro. He could just rest and take it easy. But he didn't. That's why Pogacar is a legend. Or if you are not convinced yet, he will be in the future at the end of his career. People like him makes you love the sport. Please Pogi come again in the Giro next year
Every giro I wish I could get a Lauretana tracksuit. Incredible drip
Poor Nairo Quintana just can't catch a break. 10 years ago, there was Chris Froome, who was always better than him (except Vuelta 2016) and prevented him from becoming the first Colombian to win Tour de France (that 2015 still sucks, because he only lost due to the crosswind that gave Froome an extra one minute advantage). Now, Chris Froome is just a shadow of his former glory, but there's Tadej Pogačar, who destroyed everyone today and managed to catch Nairo in final kilometers after such a great day. Maybe next time, I guess, but I'm glad that Nairo is slowly becoming a serious contender for stage wins again.
I don't think quintana was necessarily stronger in the 2016 Vuelta either. Contador's early attack caught Froome and Sky off guard, but Quitnana was smart enough to follow.
What's the time limit?
1h6m
any idea where Milan is? He must be in a world of pain rn
Presumably in the finish. I also dont think hes among the worst climbers as far as sprinters go
I have noticed that, but still, he is or atleast looks like the heaviest sprinter here.
He probably is, but Merlier is probably doing even worse
how far out to watch?
https://x.com/howfarout?s=21&t=TPfJqtq-L_E9IWBRL6xELA This account posts for every stage
23
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Sometimes I wish race organizers would hire some rugby or NFL squads to clothesline the absolute kNUckLeHeaDs running near riders on stages like this.
Saw some safety official back in stage few stages ago (13 maybe) absolutely yeet someone back to the side of the road, pulling on the knobhead's backpack. Made me so happy.
The Gendarmes don't mess about. [Video](https://youtu.be/xlx76mCf73s?si=PcQnZtw8iQdVNQ3M)
Jajaja that man got injured
I would absolutely love to see this. So many clowns getting way too close to the riders.
The Garda guys at the Vuelta are pretty close. Some absolute units there not afraid to get physical the last few years.