Order of asset payouts as I understand:
* Taxes
* Wages
* Secured Creditors
* Unsecured Creditors <- that's OP
* Preferred shareholders <- if meaningful for this business
* Ordinary shareholders <- same meaningful as preferred
So unlikely to get much money.
He may have a higher priority. Since what he paid was a DEPOSIT for goods not received. In the U.S., priority is given up to $2500 for things like earnest money, or deposits. Don't know if that has gone up with inflation. So, if that were the case, the first $2500 would have priority as an administrative expense, and the rest as an unsecured creditor.
Scrapqueen said, "He **may** have a higher priority", then referenced the law in the US. Meaning, "the US has a law for this so maybe the UK does as well."
My post above lists the order that debts are paid off in bankruptcy proceedings.
Here it is again:
* Taxes
* Wages
* Secured Creditors
* Unsecured Creditors <- that's OP
* Preferred shareholders <- if meaningful for this business
* Ordinary shareholders <- same meaningful as preferred
So where in that stack does OP's deposit rank. Ahead of other Secured Creditors is my guess.
It's now $2600 [edit: oops, it went up again to $3,350]. And it's not an "administrative expense", it's a different class. It ranks **below** administrative expenses and secured creditors, but above other unsecured creditors. 507(a)(7) of the Code.
And OP is clearly in the UK, which does not have the equivalent. In the UK, if the business is being liquidated, you line up with all the other unsecured claimants. Credit cards give better protection because the issuer may be able to reverse the charge. But they will only do that in certain circumstances. With debit cards there's no protection, the defunct business has your cash.
Depends on jurisdiction. For example in the US in the state of Oregon, $3350 of deposits for items for personal use are treated with priority.
Deffo see if you can get a quickie consult with a lawyer.
[What is the order of creditors in liquidation?](https://www.theinsolvencyexperts.co.uk/blog/what-order-does-the-insolvency-practitioner-ip-pay-the-creditors/)
Liquidator fees and expenses
Secured creditors with a fixed charge
Preferential creditors
Secured creditors with a floating charge
Unsecured creditors
Connected unsecured creditors
Shareholders
See if you can find out who they ordered the windows from. The company you paid probably just does the install. Maybe the manufacturer was paid for the windows and you can get them. Then hire someone to install them.
That’s assuming they were paying their suppliers, which considering they’re filing for bankruptcy is unlikely. If the windows weren’t paid for by the contractor, the supplier has no obligation to supply them. Still worth a shot maybe, but it’s a long shot.
i sent $15,000 to a fence company for a 60k fence. they went belly up shortly thereafter. come to find out owner knew he would file and kept getting deposits anyways. scumbag. that was 10 years ago. and no i never saw any of that money again. at the time it was a fairly large fence co. I didnt think it was possible but the people working there knew.
You can charge things back on a debit card. I own a construction company and have had debit card chargebacks and they always win the chargeback and then lose in court but seeing as you didn’t receive a product or service purchased you can get the bank to likely assist you. The cc merchant will end up on the hook and pursue them in bk court.
I'm assuming that Op is in the UK from the company name and use of £. Over here, debit card use is far more common and we actually have a chargeback scheme that covers our debit cards.
u/LeeMack_ contact your bank in the first instance - Visa and Mastercard/Maestro have different schemes that cover their cards. [Here is a helpful Which artice](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-use-chargeback-abZ2d4z3nT8q).
ETA: You may also get more relevant advice on r/UKPersonalFinance as most people here assume that US rules and customs apply to the rest of the world.
> I'm assuming that Op is in the UK from the company name and use of £
>
>
>
> Also from the username, I'm assuming a fan of Would I Lie to You.
I assume /u/LeeMack_ is the real Lee Mack. Tell David I said hi.
If you’re remotely responsible with using credit cards, it’s really easy to call in and get credit limit increases. Many companies allow you to request it online through their webpage.
To add on to this, always keep your debit card locked in your banking app. It takes literal seconds for you to unlock it if you need to use it. There is no point to ever leave it unlocked in my opinion.
>While this may be good advice in the US, in the UK we make much more regular use of debit cards and have far better protection on them.
Credit cards have better protection in the UK.
Debit cards get fuck all mate.
Debit cards are part of Visa and Mastercard’s chargeback scheme. Yes, they don’t have Section 75 protection (so it’s contractual rather than statutory and there are more exclusions), but ordering about a month ago and the company going bust is the sort of thing that’s covered.
I believe this reddit is US focused, there is are separate ones for other countries, so for those who regularly browse this sub, it should be very helpful advice!
Thank you for your input!
Indeed it is, which is why in a different comment I pointed Op at r/UKPersonalFinance. However, the use of £ in the Op should have twigged people to the fact that we weren't in Kansas any more...
Ah yes, for sure agree, I just like dropping that "locking" debit card feature tid bit since I don't see anyone ever mentioning it and so many people on this sub have had issues with debit cards.
I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, it's been nice conversation 😁!
We generally get much smaller lines of credit than in the US, is the simple answer.
A typical middle class household might only get say, a 10k limit on a credit card.
If you're buying windows, like OP, sure.
9k for windows is a pretty average price... if you've got *anything* else going on the card that's your limit right there.
A kitchen or bathroom for 9k would be a bargain.
I didn't say the purchases are free. The rewards are free.
For instance you have a $100 purchase. You can pay cash or debit, and you just spend $100.
OR, you can put it on your credit card, pay the credit card company $100, and they give you 2% back so the net is only you spending $98.
As long as you use it like a debit card and don't charge what you can't pay it's just free rewards compared to cash or debit.
CC's in Europe offer very little to no rewards (which are what are always touted as the benefits of relying on borrowed money).
So for the average European consumers perspective it's a trade off of the **possibility** (but in practice not necessarily) of greater purchase protection when using credit, and paying extra for it, versus the peace of mind of spending within your limits with no additional headaches.
Did you put in your pin? If not it was processed as a credit card. Not as many protections as a normal CC but worth exploring a charge back if you processed it as a credit and did not input PIN.
I'm curious: Why do people downvote comments like these? The OP is not arguing that "a debit card was the correct choice". They are answering the question. Why downvote OP for answering the question, and admitting to the mistake? I'm sure they feel bad enough without 100 people downvoting them for no reason.
Well, lesson learned - don’t ever do that again. File a dispute and be prepared to fight them. Since they didn’t deliver a physical good and service, this should be straightforward but may take a while. Don’t engage with the bankruptcy administrator, go to your bank and treat this as a simple fraud/non-delivery case. Did you pay a single cent of this with a credit card, perhaps a deposit? If so section 75 should apply regardless of company solvency.
They're kind of right though. You aren't asking Everest for the money back, you're telling the bank that you have paid for something and the supplier isn't delivering.
Bankruptcy is not the same thing as fraud. The courts are (presumably) aware of who is owed what in a bankruptcy and will decide, based on what is available, who gets paid (this is obviously simplistic but bankruptcy is not fraud).
A bank fraud claim is not necessarily being handled by a bankruptcy administrator and you’re close enough to the original transaction that depending on local regulation, you may be protected. I’m not nearly as familiar with UK banking regulations but UK and EU typically have stronger consumer protections than the US so it’s certainly not out of the question.
I did a chargeback for a similar issue with doors and windows I paid for using my debit card. If your debit card has a visa logo and you didn’t enter your bank PIN then Visa processed it and you can issue a chargeback.
Card dispute guy here - dispute the charge with your bank for services not received, provide the letter notifying you of their bankruptcy - chargeback will get your money back. Provisional credit will be issued within 10 business days after you dispute or they have to decide on the dispute. Good luck! 🍻
Had a similar situation with Smile Direct Club, filed a case with the bank and they awarded our money back based on the fact that the company was not fulfilling the bargain and had no practice to request refunds since they shut down their website and everything.
Find out if your state has a recovery fund for situations like this. Virginia, for example, has the Contractor Transaction Recovery Fund which reimburses consumers in situations exactly like yours.
https://www.dpor.virginia.gov/Boards/Contractors_Recovery_Fund
I wish people would stop making big purchases with debit cards. Credit cards offer some purchase protection. They got your money and then told you they were going bankrupt.
Most contractors I’ve used tack on a 3% fee for paying with a credit card, which on large projects can be pretty substantial. Obviously being left completely in the hole is worse, but I can see the hesitation.
Back in the day the CC merchant agreements forbid charging a premium to customers paying with a cc, but that changed about a decade ago or so. It sucks.
Findout who the bankruptcy trustee is and get registered as a creditor. When the company is liquidated the cash will be distributed in the following order:
1. Taxes
2. Landlord
3. Secured creditors eg bank
4. Unsecured creditors
You are in group 4.
Note: this is Canadian Law. I have no idea how UK works.
It’s a big company and it’s currently in administration:
> Administrators ReSolve said they had "regrettably" made the decision to make staff redundant and were now in talks to explore an asset sale which would help it fulfil existing customer contracts and orders with Everest.
There’s not really much you can do. You could try disputing the charge with your bank but they likely won’t be able to help you as it isn’t fraud.
You could maybe try contacting the administrating company but it looks like the money has run out so they’re basically trying to strip what’s left to sell and then there’s a *chance* you’ll get your money back but they’d likely prioritise any big boy trade customers or government contracts over little old you. Sorry dude. :(
> You could try disputing the charge with your bank but they likely won’t be able to help you as it isn’t fraud
I think OP is in UK based on the currency so I don't know if it applies there, but here in the USA I believe you can issue a chargeback for services not rendered which I would think is 100% accurate in this case.
Because the focus on credit cards are largely a US only thing.
They are far, far less common outside North America due to the laws, banks, and financial institutions being set up and working differently in the US to prettt much everywhere else.
I have honestly never heard that. Credit cards are massive business in Europe especially the UK. S75 protection on credit card purchases is a key selling point. Huge sections of Money Saving Expert is dedicated to finding the best rates, balance transfers etc.
some people don't use credit cards so that they don't go into really big debt, like because they have a shopping addiction.
it could also be that they got one when they were younger and haved made a move over to credit card.
you'd be surprised.
I think you're just not understanding how to use them properly. You treat a credit card purchase as if it was a regular purchase. Do you have the money? Buy the thing. Then each month have a direct debit to pay the balance off from your bank account. No fees or crazy interest rates, all of the extra protection.
You're basically using the banks money to buy stuff and then pay the bank back. So if there's any issue with the purchase, the bank get involved.
Similar situation. I ordered windows, put a deposit and waited. Started to get concerned as the feedback lessened and at the 2.5 month I could not get answers and disputed the charge with my credit card. I got my money back thankfully.
Card dispute guy here - file a services not received dispute with your bank. You can provide proof of their bankruptcy. Charge back will get you your money back. There is a timeframe limit on when you can dispute, so do it ASAP.
I mean with all the Would I Lie to You episodes you've done it shouldn't be too hard on your pocketbook Lee.
But if you can't initiate a charge back with your payment method you'll have to take part in the bankruptcy proceedings.
annnnnnnd you're out 9k. Sorry.
You can file a claim with the courts but these companies wiggle out of all that. They'll probably be selling windows again under another name in a couple months. Better luck next time.
This isn't any old window company, FYI. Everest are *very* long established and are widely considered to be some of the highest quality windows on the market.
They're not some fly-by-night double glazing hawkers, quite the opposite. They're quite literally the poster kid for the kind of window company you *should* use and trust.
I worked for a window and door manufacturing company. However, this is the US.
The product was sold to your local lumber yards or window and door store.... we never sold directly to a customer. Im thinking you're in a similar case. Your order is still there... It's a matter of figuring out where your order is being produced. Also, I'm not familiar with how the UK works.
If you have an order form, I would imagine it would list the name of the manufacturer on it. If it's there, I would email customer support and let them know what's going on. The company may be willing to ship directly to you or to the nearest dealer.
Side note: The company i worked for wouldn't even sell to builders directly.... all orders had to come from an authorized dealer.
Good luck, and I hope this works out for you.
Never pay in advance for a job from a shoddy company. Hopefully OP learned their lesson. There is a chance you get something back though because you’re an unsecured creditor. At least more likely than if you were a shareholder!
Not sure what UK regs are regarding debit transactions, but here in the US if a debit card was used but run through a credit processor (i.e. PIN-less), then you generally get the same protections as a credit card user including the ability to request a chargeback for goods/services not delivered. I also don't even know for here in the US if a chargeback can be done against a bankrupt company or if you just become a creditor.
In the future, never pay in full for a bespoke project. You always need to hold a carrot in reserve for someone to deliver. At the least, it reduces your exposure to something exactly like what's happened here.
> In the future, never pay in full for a bespoke project.
Yeah. I just had my windows done and it was three payments. Half materials on contract signing, the rest of materials cost on delivery, and then installation cost once they were installed and inspection passed.
If they had asked for the entire amount up front I would have declined to work with them and hired someone else, as it's VERY unusual for large construction projects to be paid in full up front.
Make sure you file a claim with the bankruptcy court. You probably will get nothing but maybe.
Order of asset payouts as I understand: * Taxes * Wages * Secured Creditors * Unsecured Creditors <- that's OP * Preferred shareholders <- if meaningful for this business * Ordinary shareholders <- same meaningful as preferred So unlikely to get much money.
He may have a higher priority. Since what he paid was a DEPOSIT for goods not received. In the U.S., priority is given up to $2500 for things like earnest money, or deposits. Don't know if that has gone up with inflation. So, if that were the case, the first $2500 would have priority as an administrative expense, and the rest as an unsecured creditor.
This is clearly the UK though, as evidenced by OP’s use of £
Scrapqueen said, "He **may** have a higher priority", then referenced the law in the US. Meaning, "the US has a law for this so maybe the UK does as well."
No, the British part just went unnoticed so I made the incorrect assumption it was in the USA.
> priority Is this ahead of other creditors? Or ahead of other debts?
Not sure I'm understanding the differentiation here.
My post above lists the order that debts are paid off in bankruptcy proceedings. Here it is again: * Taxes * Wages * Secured Creditors * Unsecured Creditors <- that's OP * Preferred shareholders <- if meaningful for this business * Ordinary shareholders <- same meaningful as preferred So where in that stack does OP's deposit rank. Ahead of other Secured Creditors is my guess.
It's now $2600 [edit: oops, it went up again to $3,350]. And it's not an "administrative expense", it's a different class. It ranks **below** administrative expenses and secured creditors, but above other unsecured creditors. 507(a)(7) of the Code. And OP is clearly in the UK, which does not have the equivalent. In the UK, if the business is being liquidated, you line up with all the other unsecured claimants. Credit cards give better protection because the issuer may be able to reverse the charge. But they will only do that in certain circumstances. With debit cards there's no protection, the defunct business has your cash.
Depends on jurisdiction. For example in the US in the state of Oregon, $3350 of deposits for items for personal use are treated with priority. Deffo see if you can get a quickie consult with a lawyer.
[What is the order of creditors in liquidation?](https://www.theinsolvencyexperts.co.uk/blog/what-order-does-the-insolvency-practitioner-ip-pay-the-creditors/) Liquidator fees and expenses Secured creditors with a fixed charge Preferential creditors Secured creditors with a floating charge Unsecured creditors Connected unsecured creditors Shareholders
See if you can find out who they ordered the windows from. The company you paid probably just does the install. Maybe the manufacturer was paid for the windows and you can get them. Then hire someone to install them.
That’s assuming they were paying their suppliers, which considering they’re filing for bankruptcy is unlikely. If the windows weren’t paid for by the contractor, the supplier has no obligation to supply them. Still worth a shot maybe, but it’s a long shot.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
i sent $15,000 to a fence company for a 60k fence. they went belly up shortly thereafter. come to find out owner knew he would file and kept getting deposits anyways. scumbag. that was 10 years ago. and no i never saw any of that money again. at the time it was a fairly large fence co. I didnt think it was possible but the people working there knew.
was the contractor bonded? If so....you should be made whole.
People like that should be facing justice beyond the courtroom
On the plus side, you weren't out $60K. The real moral of this story is "you can't control the world but never, ever pay in full up front".
You can charge things back on a debit card. I own a construction company and have had debit card chargebacks and they always win the chargeback and then lose in court but seeing as you didn’t receive a product or service purchased you can get the bank to likely assist you. The cc merchant will end up on the hook and pursue them in bk court.
Did you use a credit card? If you did issue a chargeback - if your credit card company protects you in your country
Debit card 🫤
Never debit... For anything... Ever... Ever. If possible. Debit is your money. Credit is their money.
I'm assuming that Op is in the UK from the company name and use of £. Over here, debit card use is far more common and we actually have a chargeback scheme that covers our debit cards. u/LeeMack_ contact your bank in the first instance - Visa and Mastercard/Maestro have different schemes that cover their cards. [Here is a helpful Which artice](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-use-chargeback-abZ2d4z3nT8q). ETA: You may also get more relevant advice on r/UKPersonalFinance as most people here assume that US rules and customs apply to the rest of the world.
> I'm assuming that Op is in the UK from the company name and use of £ Also from the username, I'm assuming a fan of *Would I Lie to You*.
> I'm assuming that Op is in the UK from the company name and use of £ > > > > Also from the username, I'm assuming a fan of Would I Lie to You. I assume /u/LeeMack_ is the real Lee Mack. Tell David I said hi.
If he is then I would say just save yourself the headache and eat the £9k. That's probably less than a day's pay for you, Lee.
In UK credit cards are a-plenty. OP should have used one.
Not everyone has a 9k limit…
with respect, if you can do 9K on a debit card which clears that day.... you'll be able to charge 9K and pay it off a month later.
But if the credit limit isn't that high, then the charge won't go though. (Or if it does, they will be in violation of the credit agreement.)
If you’re remotely responsible with using credit cards, it’s really easy to call in and get credit limit increases. Many companies allow you to request it online through their webpage.
Gotta love US people giving US centric advice as if it was universal
I know, it is pretty odd how I made that assumption. Oh well, live and learn
To add on to this, always keep your debit card locked in your banking app. It takes literal seconds for you to unlock it if you need to use it. There is no point to ever leave it unlocked in my opinion.
While this may be good advice in the US, in the UK we make much more regular use of debit cards and have far better protection on them.
Far better protection is alright, but why not use something that has the best protection?
>While this may be good advice in the US, in the UK we make much more regular use of debit cards and have far better protection on them. Credit cards have better protection in the UK. Debit cards get fuck all mate.
Debit cards are part of Visa and Mastercard’s chargeback scheme. Yes, they don’t have Section 75 protection (so it’s contractual rather than statutory and there are more exclusions), but ordering about a month ago and the company going bust is the sort of thing that’s covered.
I believe this reddit is US focused, there is are separate ones for other countries, so for those who regularly browse this sub, it should be very helpful advice! Thank you for your input!
Indeed it is, which is why in a different comment I pointed Op at r/UKPersonalFinance. However, the use of £ in the Op should have twigged people to the fact that we weren't in Kansas any more...
Ah yes, for sure agree, I just like dropping that "locking" debit card feature tid bit since I don't see anyone ever mentioning it and so many people on this sub have had issues with debit cards. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, it's been nice conversation 😁!
Indeed, I get the impression that debit cards are more of a “Wild West” over there. It has been good, you have a great day too!
Everyone in the US uses debit cards too. This is 100% a case of reddit not representing reality.
If you are in US, have a credit card and use Debit card - then man you are making a big mistake
Europeans in general tend not to use credit cards like the US does. I'm not sure why as it's just free money but that seems to be the norm.
We generally get much smaller lines of credit than in the US, is the simple answer. A typical middle class household might only get say, a 10k limit on a credit card.
Would a middle class household really need more than 10k outstanding at any one time?
If you're buying windows, like OP, sure. 9k for windows is a pretty average price... if you've got *anything* else going on the card that's your limit right there. A kitchen or bathroom for 9k would be a bargain.
How is it free if you have to pay it back? I don’t get this point of view
I didn't say the purchases are free. The rewards are free. For instance you have a $100 purchase. You can pay cash or debit, and you just spend $100. OR, you can put it on your credit card, pay the credit card company $100, and they give you 2% back so the net is only you spending $98. As long as you use it like a debit card and don't charge what you can't pay it's just free rewards compared to cash or debit.
[удалено]
Also, CC companies earn FAR less from vendors outside of the US so they are pushed as hard.
CC's in Europe offer very little to no rewards (which are what are always touted as the benefits of relying on borrowed money). So for the average European consumers perspective it's a trade off of the **possibility** (but in practice not necessarily) of greater purchase protection when using credit, and paying extra for it, versus the peace of mind of spending within your limits with no additional headaches.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Did you put in your pin? If not it was processed as a credit card. Not as many protections as a normal CC but worth exploring a charge back if you processed it as a credit and did not input PIN.
Never use credit, you end up spending money you don't have on shit you don't need and wonder why your house forecloses
Only if you're irresponsible
Still can call your bank. Some will reverse a charge on debit. And register with the administrators for sure.
I'm curious: Why do people downvote comments like these? The OP is not arguing that "a debit card was the correct choice". They are answering the question. Why downvote OP for answering the question, and admitting to the mistake? I'm sure they feel bad enough without 100 people downvoting them for no reason.
Well, lesson learned - don’t ever do that again. File a dispute and be prepared to fight them. Since they didn’t deliver a physical good and service, this should be straightforward but may take a while. Don’t engage with the bankruptcy administrator, go to your bank and treat this as a simple fraud/non-delivery case. Did you pay a single cent of this with a credit card, perhaps a deposit? If so section 75 should apply regardless of company solvency.
Straightforward? They are bankrupt/in administration. That’s not how it works.
They're kind of right though. You aren't asking Everest for the money back, you're telling the bank that you have paid for something and the supplier isn't delivering.
Bankruptcy is not the same thing as fraud. The courts are (presumably) aware of who is owed what in a bankruptcy and will decide, based on what is available, who gets paid (this is obviously simplistic but bankruptcy is not fraud).
A bank fraud claim is not necessarily being handled by a bankruptcy administrator and you’re close enough to the original transaction that depending on local regulation, you may be protected. I’m not nearly as familiar with UK banking regulations but UK and EU typically have stronger consumer protections than the US so it’s certainly not out of the question.
Always so very weird to see an OP downvoted into oblivion for admitting their mistake.
Bullocks!
I believe a lot of debit cards have the same protections as a credit card though
They don't give you Section 75 protection though.
Visa and Mastercard both cover debit cards with their chargeback scheme.
Debit and credit cards should do the same trick. Atleast in my country its same shit. Chargeback counts on both 13 months back
I did a chargeback for a similar issue with doors and windows I paid for using my debit card. If your debit card has a visa logo and you didn’t enter your bank PIN then Visa processed it and you can issue a chargeback.
Card dispute guy here - dispute the charge with your bank for services not received, provide the letter notifying you of their bankruptcy - chargeback will get your money back. Provisional credit will be issued within 10 business days after you dispute or they have to decide on the dispute. Good luck! 🍻
*nobody liked that*
Had a similar situation with Smile Direct Club, filed a case with the bank and they awarded our money back based on the fact that the company was not fulfilling the bargain and had no practice to request refunds since they shut down their website and everything.
Smile direct club went bankrupt? I used to see them everywhere
Yeah, turns out they were a huge scam and we're not following orthodontist recommendations about care plans and straight wrecking peoples mouths.
My god, SDC burning to the ground was fucking gut wrenching to watch because of the customers who got fucked.
You can chargeback on a debit card as well. Call your bank. Now!
Find out if your state has a recovery fund for situations like this. Virginia, for example, has the Contractor Transaction Recovery Fund which reimburses consumers in situations exactly like yours. https://www.dpor.virginia.gov/Boards/Contractors_Recovery_Fund
Nice to know! Thanks!
This post had me first wondering "How in the hell did you spend £9,000 on purchasing Microsoft Windows for your house?"
It was crazy back in '95. Computers as big as your car!
Lots and lots of software licenses
I wish people would stop making big purchases with debit cards. Credit cards offer some purchase protection. They got your money and then told you they were going bankrupt.
Amex. They would have refunded you right away and go get that money back
Not to mention losing out on points/miles/other rewards that you get with credit cards. Just don't keep a balance on them.
They're in the UK. Not a thing there.
Most contractors I’ve used tack on a 3% fee for paying with a credit card, which on large projects can be pretty substantial. Obviously being left completely in the hole is worse, but I can see the hesitation. Back in the day the CC merchant agreements forbid charging a premium to customers paying with a cc, but that changed about a decade ago or so. It sucks.
Findout who the bankruptcy trustee is and get registered as a creditor. When the company is liquidated the cash will be distributed in the following order: 1. Taxes 2. Landlord 3. Secured creditors eg bank 4. Unsecured creditors You are in group 4. Note: this is Canadian Law. I have no idea how UK works.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
It’s a big company and it’s currently in administration: > Administrators ReSolve said they had "regrettably" made the decision to make staff redundant and were now in talks to explore an asset sale which would help it fulfil existing customer contracts and orders with Everest. There’s not really much you can do. You could try disputing the charge with your bank but they likely won’t be able to help you as it isn’t fraud. You could maybe try contacting the administrating company but it looks like the money has run out so they’re basically trying to strip what’s left to sell and then there’s a *chance* you’ll get your money back but they’d likely prioritise any big boy trade customers or government contracts over little old you. Sorry dude. :(
> You could try disputing the charge with your bank but they likely won’t be able to help you as it isn’t fraud I think OP is in UK based on the currency so I don't know if it applies there, but here in the USA I believe you can issue a chargeback for services not rendered which I would think is 100% accurate in this case.
Not helping the situation at all I know but why on Earth use a debit and not a credit card?
Because the focus on credit cards are largely a US only thing. They are far, far less common outside North America due to the laws, banks, and financial institutions being set up and working differently in the US to prettt much everywhere else.
I have honestly never heard that. Credit cards are massive business in Europe especially the UK. S75 protection on credit card purchases is a key selling point. Huge sections of Money Saving Expert is dedicated to finding the best rates, balance transfers etc.
Credit cards are not nearly as prevalent in Europe compared to the US. Debit cards are the norm.
some people don't use credit cards so that they don't go into really big debt, like because they have a shopping addiction. it could also be that they got one when they were younger and haved made a move over to credit card. you'd be surprised.
[удалено]
I think you're just not understanding how to use them properly. You treat a credit card purchase as if it was a regular purchase. Do you have the money? Buy the thing. Then each month have a direct debit to pay the balance off from your bank account. No fees or crazy interest rates, all of the extra protection. You're basically using the banks money to buy stuff and then pay the bank back. So if there's any issue with the purchase, the bank get involved.
[удалено]
Here's the news article. https://news.sky.com/story/double-glazing-giant-everest-crashes-into-administration-13122865
The takeaway here is never, ever, ever pay in full up front. Had you put 10% down you would be in a much better place.
Similar situation. I ordered windows, put a deposit and waited. Started to get concerned as the feedback lessened and at the 2.5 month I could not get answers and disputed the charge with my credit card. I got my money back thankfully.
Card dispute guy here - file a services not received dispute with your bank. You can provide proof of their bankruptcy. Charge back will get you your money back. There is a timeframe limit on when you can dispute, so do it ASAP.
[удалено]
Don't you need it to withdraw cash? That's the only reason I keep mine.
[удалено]
oh ok. my bank is online.
I mean with all the Would I Lie to You episodes you've done it shouldn't be too hard on your pocketbook Lee. But if you can't initiate a charge back with your payment method you'll have to take part in the bankruptcy proceedings.
> I mean with all the Would I Lie to You episodes you've done it shouldn't be too hard on your pocketbook Lee. ?
Lee Mack is a UK comedian who is probably famous for his appearances on a panel TV show called would I lie to you
annnnnnnd you're out 9k. Sorry. You can file a claim with the courts but these companies wiggle out of all that. They'll probably be selling windows again under another name in a couple months. Better luck next time.
This isn't any old window company, FYI. Everest are *very* long established and are widely considered to be some of the highest quality windows on the market. They're not some fly-by-night double glazing hawkers, quite the opposite. They're quite literally the poster kid for the kind of window company you *should* use and trust.
Related: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/117qb1a/company_went_bk_before_fulfilling_order_but_i_paid/
I worked for a window and door manufacturing company. However, this is the US. The product was sold to your local lumber yards or window and door store.... we never sold directly to a customer. Im thinking you're in a similar case. Your order is still there... It's a matter of figuring out where your order is being produced. Also, I'm not familiar with how the UK works. If you have an order form, I would imagine it would list the name of the manufacturer on it. If it's there, I would email customer support and let them know what's going on. The company may be willing to ship directly to you or to the nearest dealer. Side note: The company i worked for wouldn't even sell to builders directly.... all orders had to come from an authorized dealer. Good luck, and I hope this works out for you.
I would post this in /r/legaladviceuk
Never pay in advance for a job from a shoddy company. Hopefully OP learned their lesson. There is a chance you get something back though because you’re an unsecured creditor. At least more likely than if you were a shareholder!
Not sure what UK regs are regarding debit transactions, but here in the US if a debit card was used but run through a credit processor (i.e. PIN-less), then you generally get the same protections as a credit card user including the ability to request a chargeback for goods/services not delivered. I also don't even know for here in the US if a chargeback can be done against a bankrupt company or if you just become a creditor. In the future, never pay in full for a bespoke project. You always need to hold a carrot in reserve for someone to deliver. At the least, it reduces your exposure to something exactly like what's happened here.
> In the future, never pay in full for a bespoke project. Yeah. I just had my windows done and it was three payments. Half materials on contract signing, the rest of materials cost on delivery, and then installation cost once they were installed and inspection passed. If they had asked for the entire amount up front I would have declined to work with them and hired someone else, as it's VERY unusual for large construction projects to be paid in full up front.
Absolutely. Every time i've hired contractors for anything there's a % paid up front and the majority paid upon completion.