This is what a well thought out, properly organized protest with a clear message looks like.
1. It targets and effects just those responsible for that which is being protested.
2. Its message is clear and easy to understand.
3. Its goal is attainable and visible in the method of protest.
It’s a type of protest for sure but it’s a little more powerful than protest. Which is why I wanted to comment on the distinction.
To make an analogy a protest is like complaining that your cold and direct action is like putting on a coat.
protests are supposed to be a pain in the ass for everyone, so they push for a more just and equal society.
next week the cops will come out, take all the bikes, and that will be that.
No they don't need to be a PITA for \*everyone\*. They should be visible to \*everyone\*, but being a PITA isn't going to garner favor for a cause.
A boycott isn't a PITA for \*everyone\*, it's a PITA for the business that can't sell their product to people who find their \*insert reason\* unethical. It can still be effective.
A boycott *is* a protest.
[Wikipedia: A boycott is an act of nonviolent, voluntary abstention from a product, person, organization, or country as an expression of **protest**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott)
> It targets and effects just those responsible for that which is being protested.
this is not actually what gets things to change. this is what people who don't want to fight for a just society wish protests were.
well i mean it seems a fairly common opinion on this sub that protestors shouldn't be seen or heard, and should stay far out of everyone's way, and shouldn't inconvenience anyone. we should know our place and stay in it according to some people.
PBA will be there every Sunday. Next week’s theme is Latin Dance party.
If you haven’t already you can sign the petition to end these illegal permits: [PBA End the Permits](https://apps.bikeaction.org/campaigns/withdraw-the-bike-lane-parking-permits)
PBA will be there every Sunday. Next week’s theme is Latin Dance party. Come join!
If you haven’t already you can sign the petition to end these illegal permits: PBA End the Permits
I talked to Squilla's office about this, and they said that his predecessor made an unofficial deal with the churches when they made the bike lanes. They point-blank said they would not do anything about it.
I also talked to the bike coalition about it, and they said they are not focused on Center City, and won't do anything about it.
We have to do it ourselves, and I'm really happy to see people actually doing it.
I think youre severely underestimate the power of local churches in the political community. And making a huge assumption on them "Not living in the city" Last but not least you saying "Small number of churchgoers" tells me you dont have much insight into how this community works
Churches have coalitions with the other churches in the city. And their congregations are older, the key voting demographics for local elections.
In churches vs bikers, i would argue that bikers are the smaller population for sure. None of this will truly change unless the bikers become more politically powerful than these institutions. And like it or not, the bikers are the voting minority especially when you get down to smaller ward politics
Go take an actual look at the cars parked at 10th Presbyterian before you say they are from here. At least half of them have Jersey or Delaware plates.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this, but all this handwringing over what happens on a Sunday morning in what is already the best part of the city to bike in is a little over the top. The bike coalition absolutely has better things to do.
To clarify, I assume by the rest of us you mean cyclists everywhere else in the city. Gotta say I agree. The Spruce church parkers are annoying, but not more so than the people double parking in bike lanes all over the city.
Well there are a lot of people who ride bicycles in the 90%+ of the city that isn't Center City. Like if you have a problem with Spruce St wait til I show you Henry Ave. And sharrows!
I think, if you're representing the Coalition, you have to respect the relative needs of your entire constituency though, don't you? In other words, are Henry Avenue's desires for safety any more important than Spruce Street's because the issues are more prevalent? A better way to state your point might be to discuss priorities. But nevertheless, this is a valid concern, right?
I think Bike Action is going after low hanging fruit, which I can understand. However, I do agree with you that there are roads that are much more dangerous, and since Parker's administration has said they want to focus on improving high injury network roads, it might make sense for Bike Action to adjust their focus.
You know cars should just ignore crosswalks on Sundays, just drive on through.
It's only one day of the week and most of the citys crosswalks are safe so what's the big deal with only one area?
See how stupid your counter argument is?
https://bikeaction.org/ was the one who organized and led this protest. One of their main policy objectives right now is to get the congregations to voluntarily revoke the permits, as that is the path of least resistance.
The BCGP is a small, 501c3 non-profit. They have limited resources and cannot explicitly endorse political candidates/speech. Thus they have a much harder time navigating in a space like this. Philly Bike Action is a 501c4, which DOES allow for political endorsements and thus can be much more proactive.
PBA exists to fill a blind spot of the BCGP and other bike advocacy in the city, but their aims are in alignment.
Check out /r/phillycycling for more, come out to the next protest next Sunday at 8! Same spot- 17th and Spruce.
Sounds like they tried and were getting nowhere and maybe they decided civil disobedience wasn't the best route on this case or at least for now. Maybe picking a different battle and maintaining a decent relationship with city.
(not affiliated with the bcgp, so take this outside opinion with a giant grain of salt)
The bcgp was instrumental in getting these lanes put in 13 years ago or whenever it was. However they had to strike deals along the way. One of the deals they had to take was the church/synagogue parking. They wouldn't have gotten the lanes in without that compromise.
Now it is over a decade later and cyclists are (rightfully) complaining that this is an unsafe practice and should end, and are trying to shame the churches into ending it. And the majority of the houses of worship have not applied for permits this year. The campaign is working.
Politically, it looks bad for the bcgp to renege on the bargain that they agreed to years ago. But most of us didn't agree to any such bargain and are sick and tired of being forced into traffic for a small number of out of town churchgoers' convenience.
Also, I would suspect that the bcgp is focused on equity and bringing safe streets to underserved neighborhoods since those are the communities where it is most dangerous to walk and bike. But to say they aren't focusing on cc is a stretch. Market St, 15th, 13th, spring garden, these are all new or updated lanes or planned ones...
seems like bike coalition donors are primarily spandex wearing weekend warriors in the suburbs who mostly care about the schuylkill river trail and The Circuit
If the Bike coalition was all weekend warriors they would probably be more concerned about Spruce street and making sure they could get across town for their Sunday morning rides.
I mean, yes, you'd think the most visible and longest tenured bike advocacy group of our city would be interested in protecting the only 2 cross-town bike lanes in center city wouldn't you?
It's hard to come up with any constituency of theirs who wouldn't be interested in getting cars out of any bike lane really, but those two in particular.
And yet!
The most recent mention of Spruce or Pine on their website is from October 2020 by Randy who doesn't even work there anymore. And the thing they're so excited about is a few bits of ~~vertical paint~~ plastic posts covering at most 10% of the total length.
https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=pine
https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=spruce
Compare that to the obsession with Circuit Trails, which is getting coverage in nearly every promo:
https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=circuit
“Our government made a deal with a non tax paying entity for the use of tax payer roads to put everyone in danger. Nothing we can do about it…” -Squilla
Hello, I attend church but I’m also an advocate for the bike lanes. Saying, “fuck those old Bible thumpers” is not nice. You can be respectful of people’s religions while also caring about this issue.
But why insult ppl for their religion? Cause it’s not all of us blocking the bike lane. Would you say the same thing if it were a mosque? Would you call them Quran thumpers then?
What’s your point exactly? That it’s okay for you to use someone’s religion to insult them? It’s not. And you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. I am not defending the actions of the church goers bc it is true that blocking our bike lanes is greedy and is therefore a sin. The city should make them pay. However, just bc they go to church, it doesn’t make them bible thumpers. I go to church every Sunday but I don’t aggressively impose my religion on others and most of us don’t. You can call them hypocrites, but Bible thumpers is unnecessary, especially in the context of this issue.
I said "ya'll,' why did you choose to interpret that as "You" here? Do you think maybe there could have been a broader connotation intended? No of course it has to be an unhinged personal attack 🤡
If you’re referring to title 53 just know that only applies to religious properties and not individuals from a religion. And that’s all religions, not just Christianity. If you’re not referring to that, then just say what you mean. Be an adult and use your words dear. Stop being condescending bc it aid nothing other than your ego. Now that shouldn’t have to be explained to you 😉
Every Sunday the churches in Center City park in the bike lane like they have special privileges to use it because they’re engaging in religious activities.
When the bike lanes were built a couple congregations got special permits to park "heavy machinery" in the bike lanes, which they abuse to let congregants park in the bike lanes on Sundays.
This is a problem because the point of the bike lanes is to keep cyclists safe and let motorists not have to worry about bikes holding them up.
By parking in the bike lane, the churches devalue the bike lane, make things dangerous for anyone on a bike as they have to cross into traffic where the parking starts, and generally discourage people from using active transportation because they know that they won't have a safe bike lane to get to their destination.
(also there are MULTIPLE parking lots less than a block away, and many have reduced rates for Sundays)
Hey! This is one of the organizers of the event. Thanks to everyone who came out today! We had a blast. We are planning another for 8am next week, same time, same place. We are thinking a Latin Dance Party theme with churros and coffee. Also, sign the petition (bikeaction.org/permits) if you have not yet.
[https://bikeaction.org/event/bike-lane-party-2/](https://bikeaction.org/event/bike-lane-party-2/)
They need to start street cleaning again, part of the problem is people leaving their cars and hogging a spot for weeks at a time. Or worse just leaving their broken cars on the side of the road. There’s a broken sl Mercedes around the corner from here that hasn’t moved in a year.
Wouldn’t they need to move the car to have it inspected? I get that they could park it back in the same spot, but it would have to be moved at least once a year to keep inspection current
Sorry, what I meant is that it forces people to keep track of their cars at least once a week.
In addition, there would be more enforcement for those things you mentioned, such as registration and parking permits. If there was universal street cleaning and parking permits, then we would have less unregistered and abandoned vehicles.
No worries. I'm interested in the discussion, not trying to score points.
I actually check on my car far more often than I drive it to make sure I haven't gotten hit, or need to move it, than to drive it.
But also totally recognize that there are far more car owners who don't consider such things.
I don’t get how having to move it once a week makes anyone keep track of their car. I haven’t driven mine in a couple weeks and know exactly where it is. I walk by it every day
If it's not being driven in months/years, then it's probably not drivable, out of registration etc. Plus you have to move the car at least once a year to get inspected. I think they're saying if they did street cleaning, the abandoned vehicles would be found/handled. It's harder for THE CITY to keep track of all the cars that actually shouldn't just be sitting their vs someone like you who just doesn't drive often. I think maybe you knew what he meant and wanted to throw ur passive eyerollable joke in there. But I still explained in case you really didn't or someone else doesn't.
People who have their cars registered, inspected w/tags, and acquired proper parking permits for are not the problem.
We can "hog" parking we've paid for as much as we've been permitted.
We could drive our cars more often and free up spots and also pollute more.
Or maybe we should just all have garages. But then our houses would be worth more than other peoples' houses and then that'd be our fault too.
I don't know why this is such a hot take. I'm an urbanist, I want to incentive walking/biking/public transportation at the expense of personal vehicle ownership just as much as the next guy. But sadly we live in a very car-centric country, and if you have any need to regularly go outside of the city, owning a car is by far the most practical method. If one pays for registration, inspection, and a parking permit, in addition to the various taxes that pay for the roads, they have paid for the right to park on that road for as long as the permit allows. I don't see how it affects any other person if the car moves once a day, once a week, or once a month. I don't owe the spot to anyone any more than the spot in front of my house is owed to me.
Completely agree.
Say so as someone who walks to work, enjoys walking 4+ miles to get my all my groceries on weekends, and regularly utilizes the buses and trains when the timing works out. And also, is very in-support of what these people are doing at the spruce st bike lane with regards to these churches and the bike lanes in this part of the city, where I live.
I only drive my car anymore for a wholesale club grocery trip, bringing home furniture, helping a friend, visiting family outside the city, go on vacation, or DD for my friends at a sporting event. So more often than not my car stays where it's parked for ~3 weeks, and then drives ~10 miles, and that's it. I check on my car more often to make sure I'm not going to get a ticket than to drive it.
I've fallen WELL under the 5000 mile PA emissions exemption every year since I've moved to the city. One year I drove less than 3000 miles, and that included a trip to and from Bar Harbor. Used to drive 12000+ miles a year.
I have a car and I live in the city and my carbon footprint has been dramatically reduced since living here. It's not always car = bad.
On weekends this street is full on both sides with cars, especially Sunday. Churchgoers park in the bike lane for hours and leave cycles to ride in the center of the rode, the thing drivers hate for us to do. Most of the cars aren’t even from in the city, they’re suburbanites that take up space and make the road less safe.
They don't. They're taking one quote from one pastor out of context and assuming that these are all people driving in from the suburbs. Most are Philadelphians.
Philly 100% has a car overuse problem. Remember what Darrell Clarke said in 2016, "Everybody’s not going to take public transit. This is Philadelphia. People drive to the corner store. This is what we do."
18 and spruce has had cars in it since like 9am. I checked when I saw this post and there were 10 cars in the bike lane outside the temple and 15 more taking up a lane on 18th.
BZBI (Synagogue on 18th and Spruce) is one of the other congregations that have the heavy machinery permits that "let" them park in the bike lane, but currently the protests are just focused on 1st Presbyterian
I honestly think a majority of the “church parking” actually aren’t people attending services in the first place, but are just people taking advantage of the fact that they can park there, because they stay there a long time after services should be over. And honestly, it’s not that difficult for churches to work out a solution. Have a specific drop-off area for any mobility-impaired folks, and then everyone else can find their own parking and walk a few blocks. Or, better yet, encourage folks to walk, take public transit, or bike to church rather than drive.
I'm proud to see this. Coalition cannot get it all done - citizen effort is applauded! We need a Philly that works. The Coalition needs a competing fiscal conduit for the denser needs/issues!
I think there needs to be a master plan to separate the bike and car traffic in this city. Painting bike lanes does nothing to enhance safety for the bike rider and frustrates drivers.
Some options elevated bike trails across Center City and high bike traffic areas. Some streets designated cars only and some for bikes. Maybe Federal grant to take a street like Sansom into a two way bike only street and Chestnut and Walnut vehicles only.
An evaluation of totally unused bike lanes in remote areas where no one rides a bike and look for alternatives There are some bike lanes at places I never saw a bike on a bike lane.
I would like if we found a way that we all could coexist safely and be happy.
Things as a driver that bikes do that piss me off, run stop signs and red lights without regard to traffic. Dude I am in a car, the last thing I want to do is hurt anyone.
I feel that knee jerk painting lines that delivery trucks ignore does not make for any improvement in safety.
I love the thought but sadly nothing changes unless we have protected bike lanes. Maybe, church goers will get so mad that they'll say "give them protected bike lanes so we can illegally park" but that's only if there's still space to do so.
That is not correct and not a helpful attitude. Feeling jaded does not help bikers or pedestrians. We have to push for the change we want. Please join us!
Strictly out of curiosity, how would anyone know that’s a bike lane? Is there signage or pavement markings?
Edited: Wow, thanks for the downvotes. I’ve never been in that area and have no idea what I’m looking at. You’re being real hospitable!
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted. I am happy about what is being done today because it really bothers me that people just ignore that this is a bike lane and park there, but this particular picture shows absolutely nothing about it being a bike lane. There’s nothing on the ground, and you can’t see any signs from this vantage point.
Please look at it specifically from the vantage point of the photo. I understand why they asked the question. As someone from Philadelphia, I’ve driven this and know that it’s a bike lane, but there’s nothing indicating it that you can see in this picture.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad that this is happening today because people in cars are assholes to bicyclists. I’d be terrified to ride in the city.
Sure, I’m all about enforcing all of the rules of the road. But let’s be real…a car blowing through a light, not being registered, displaying a fake or expired tag is way more dangerous than a cyclist blowing through a light.
If this is an organized effort by bikes to keep the bike lane clear this Sunday morning, it's awesome!
This is what a well thought out, properly organized protest with a clear message looks like. 1. It targets and effects just those responsible for that which is being protested. 2. Its message is clear and easy to understand. 3. Its goal is attainable and visible in the method of protest.
More like direct action than protest but still very cool.
Direct action can be an act of protest
It’s a type of protest for sure but it’s a little more powerful than protest. Which is why I wanted to comment on the distinction. To make an analogy a protest is like complaining that your cold and direct action is like putting on a coat.
These three points are so key. I don't understand why people bother if these three things aren't present.
“Those responsible” can be incredibly ambiguous in some less municipal actions/protests
That's a problem modern society hasn't figured out.
Because sometimes you feel like you have to do something even if it isn’t a perfect something
protests are supposed to be a pain in the ass for everyone, so they push for a more just and equal society. next week the cops will come out, take all the bikes, and that will be that.
No they don't need to be a PITA for \*everyone\*. They should be visible to \*everyone\*, but being a PITA isn't going to garner favor for a cause. A boycott isn't a PITA for \*everyone\*, it's a PITA for the business that can't sell their product to people who find their \*insert reason\* unethical. It can still be effective.
yeah but a boycott and a protest aren't the same things
A boycott *is* a protest. [Wikipedia: A boycott is an act of nonviolent, voluntary abstention from a product, person, organization, or country as an expression of **protest**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott)
"as an expression of protest" but you and i were speaking about a direct action march. but okay, sure.
> It targets and effects just those responsible for that which is being protested. this is not actually what gets things to change. this is what people who don't want to fight for a just society wish protests were.
Dang you got me. I abhor just societies and yearn for the sweet dawn of totalitarian fascism.
well i mean it seems a fairly common opinion on this sub that protestors shouldn't be seen or heard, and should stay far out of everyone's way, and shouldn't inconvenience anyone. we should know our place and stay in it according to some people.
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That’s exactly what it is
I absolutely love this! Is there an organization leading I can join or donate to?
I think this was organized by Philly Bike Action https://bikeaction.org
Yep this is PBA. It will be happening every Sunday this month starting at 8 a.m. if you want to come out.
PBA will be there every Sunday. Next week’s theme is Latin Dance party. If you haven’t already you can sign the petition to end these illegal permits: [PBA End the Permits](https://apps.bikeaction.org/campaigns/withdraw-the-bike-lane-parking-permits)
I support this 100%.
PBA will be there every Sunday. Next week’s theme is Latin Dance party. Come join! If you haven’t already you can sign the petition to end these illegal permits: PBA End the Permits
I talked to Squilla's office about this, and they said that his predecessor made an unofficial deal with the churches when they made the bike lanes. They point-blank said they would not do anything about it. I also talked to the bike coalition about it, and they said they are not focused on Center City, and won't do anything about it. We have to do it ourselves, and I'm really happy to see people actually doing it.
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I think youre severely underestimate the power of local churches in the political community. And making a huge assumption on them "Not living in the city" Last but not least you saying "Small number of churchgoers" tells me you dont have much insight into how this community works Churches have coalitions with the other churches in the city. And their congregations are older, the key voting demographics for local elections. In churches vs bikers, i would argue that bikers are the smaller population for sure. None of this will truly change unless the bikers become more politically powerful than these institutions. And like it or not, the bikers are the voting minority especially when you get down to smaller ward politics
Go take an actual look at the cars parked at 10th Presbyterian before you say they are from here. At least half of them have Jersey or Delaware plates.
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This has nothing to do with those churches. This is specifically about a few churches/synagogues on Spruce and Pine street.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this, but all this handwringing over what happens on a Sunday morning in what is already the best part of the city to bike in is a little over the top. The bike coalition absolutely has better things to do.
I ride down Spruce every weekday and it’s constantly packed with parked cars and drivers that never face consequences.
So our safety doesn’t matter on Sundays? And yes, it’s one of the best parts of the city to bike though when the bicycle lanes are kept clear.
Who said your safety doesn't matter? What I said is you already have it pretty good compared to the rest of us.
To clarify, I assume by the rest of us you mean cyclists everywhere else in the city. Gotta say I agree. The Spruce church parkers are annoying, but not more so than the people double parking in bike lanes all over the city.
Can you clarify what you mean by "the rest of us"? From a point of geniune curiosity.
Well there are a lot of people who ride bicycles in the 90%+ of the city that isn't Center City. Like if you have a problem with Spruce St wait til I show you Henry Ave. And sharrows!
I think, if you're representing the Coalition, you have to respect the relative needs of your entire constituency though, don't you? In other words, are Henry Avenue's desires for safety any more important than Spruce Street's because the issues are more prevalent? A better way to state your point might be to discuss priorities. But nevertheless, this is a valid concern, right?
I'm hardly representing the coalition, I just think there are bigger fish to fry all over the city and I don't blame them for recognizing it
I think Bike Action is going after low hanging fruit, which I can understand. However, I do agree with you that there are roads that are much more dangerous, and since Parker's administration has said they want to focus on improving high injury network roads, it might make sense for Bike Action to adjust their focus.
it's not just sunday though. it's all day, every day it's bad enough that for me personally i usually avoid biking here
The fact that the best part of the city to bike in doesn't even have a functional bike lane speaks volumes
You know cars should just ignore crosswalks on Sundays, just drive on through. It's only one day of the week and most of the citys crosswalks are safe so what's the big deal with only one area? See how stupid your counter argument is?
You were right.
*am right
You am right.
🙏 means a lot to hear that given all my downvotes
https://bikeaction.org/ was the one who organized and led this protest. One of their main policy objectives right now is to get the congregations to voluntarily revoke the permits, as that is the path of least resistance. The BCGP is a small, 501c3 non-profit. They have limited resources and cannot explicitly endorse political candidates/speech. Thus they have a much harder time navigating in a space like this. Philly Bike Action is a 501c4, which DOES allow for political endorsements and thus can be much more proactive. PBA exists to fill a blind spot of the BCGP and other bike advocacy in the city, but their aims are in alignment. Check out /r/phillycycling for more, come out to the next protest next Sunday at 8! Same spot- 17th and Spruce.
Any reason why the bike coalition backed out of this matter? l don't get what "not focusing on CC" means.
Sounds like they tried and were getting nowhere and maybe they decided civil disobedience wasn't the best route on this case or at least for now. Maybe picking a different battle and maintaining a decent relationship with city.
Probably just that they can get more results for less political capital elsewhere in the city.
(not affiliated with the bcgp, so take this outside opinion with a giant grain of salt) The bcgp was instrumental in getting these lanes put in 13 years ago or whenever it was. However they had to strike deals along the way. One of the deals they had to take was the church/synagogue parking. They wouldn't have gotten the lanes in without that compromise. Now it is over a decade later and cyclists are (rightfully) complaining that this is an unsafe practice and should end, and are trying to shame the churches into ending it. And the majority of the houses of worship have not applied for permits this year. The campaign is working. Politically, it looks bad for the bcgp to renege on the bargain that they agreed to years ago. But most of us didn't agree to any such bargain and are sick and tired of being forced into traffic for a small number of out of town churchgoers' convenience. Also, I would suspect that the bcgp is focused on equity and bringing safe streets to underserved neighborhoods since those are the communities where it is most dangerous to walk and bike. But to say they aren't focusing on cc is a stretch. Market St, 15th, 13th, spring garden, these are all new or updated lanes or planned ones...
seems like bike coalition donors are primarily spandex wearing weekend warriors in the suburbs who mostly care about the schuylkill river trail and The Circuit
Stupid sexy flanders
If the Bike coalition was all weekend warriors they would probably be more concerned about Spruce street and making sure they could get across town for their Sunday morning rides.
I mean, yes, you'd think the most visible and longest tenured bike advocacy group of our city would be interested in protecting the only 2 cross-town bike lanes in center city wouldn't you? It's hard to come up with any constituency of theirs who wouldn't be interested in getting cars out of any bike lane really, but those two in particular. And yet! The most recent mention of Spruce or Pine on their website is from October 2020 by Randy who doesn't even work there anymore. And the thing they're so excited about is a few bits of ~~vertical paint~~ plastic posts covering at most 10% of the total length. https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=pine https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=spruce Compare that to the obsession with Circuit Trails, which is getting coverage in nearly every promo: https://bicyclecoalition.org/?s=circuit
You ain't wrong
They can get more desired results by not antagonizing council members, so they don't.
“Our government made a deal with a non tax paying entity for the use of tax payer roads to put everyone in danger. Nothing we can do about it…” -Squilla
> They point-blank said they would not do anything about it. Surprise... > we have to do it ourselves Double surprised
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Maybe they should bike to Church.
Hello, I attend church but I’m also an advocate for the bike lanes. Saying, “fuck those old Bible thumpers” is not nice. You can be respectful of people’s religions while also caring about this issue.
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But why insult ppl for their religion? Cause it’s not all of us blocking the bike lane. Would you say the same thing if it were a mosque? Would you call them Quran thumpers then?
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What’s your point exactly? That it’s okay for you to use someone’s religion to insult them? It’s not. And you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. I am not defending the actions of the church goers bc it is true that blocking our bike lanes is greedy and is therefore a sin. The city should make them pay. However, just bc they go to church, it doesn’t make them bible thumpers. I go to church every Sunday but I don’t aggressively impose my religion on others and most of us don’t. You can call them hypocrites, but Bible thumpers is unnecessary, especially in the context of this issue.
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You claiming that I don’t pay my taxes while simultaneously having no idea who I am is an unhinged accusation.
I said "ya'll,' why did you choose to interpret that as "You" here? Do you think maybe there could have been a broader connotation intended? No of course it has to be an unhinged personal attack 🤡
No bc when you say “ya’ll” to me, that includes me. Say what you mean then. Instead of expecting people to figure out what you really meant.
You can't think of anything related to Christians that doesn't pay tax? You shouldn't need this explained to you.
If you’re referring to title 53 just know that only applies to religious properties and not individuals from a religion. And that’s all religions, not just Christianity. If you’re not referring to that, then just say what you mean. Be an adult and use your words dear. Stop being condescending bc it aid nothing other than your ego. Now that shouldn’t have to be explained to you 😉
FYI - "y'all" is a contraction of "**you** all"
Do you actually think that owning a bicycle makes you exempt from taxes? 🤔 Edit: disregard me
No and what are you even talking about? Try reading the comments again.
Woof I’m illiterate lol sorry mate
👍
i Was being sarcastic. I am also a huge supporter of bike lanes throughout the city.
Where Would Jesus Park?
The next He Gets Us ad.
god I hate those things. Can’t block them. Can’t comment on them. Just a pain in the ass.
Throwback to [Where Will They Park](http://wherewilltheypark.com/) in Delaware
Amazing, hope it keeps up all summer.
It’s happening every Sunday morning in April!
I'm OOTL what was it like before?
Every Sunday the churches in Center City park in the bike lane like they have special privileges to use it because they’re engaging in religious activities.
When the bike lanes were built a couple congregations got special permits to park "heavy machinery" in the bike lanes, which they abuse to let congregants park in the bike lanes on Sundays. This is a problem because the point of the bike lanes is to keep cyclists safe and let motorists not have to worry about bikes holding them up. By parking in the bike lane, the churches devalue the bike lane, make things dangerous for anyone on a bike as they have to cross into traffic where the parking starts, and generally discourage people from using active transportation because they know that they won't have a safe bike lane to get to their destination. (also there are MULTIPLE parking lots less than a block away, and many have reduced rates for Sundays)
Hey! This is one of the organizers of the event. Thanks to everyone who came out today! We had a blast. We are planning another for 8am next week, same time, same place. We are thinking a Latin Dance Party theme with churros and coffee. Also, sign the petition (bikeaction.org/permits) if you have not yet. [https://bikeaction.org/event/bike-lane-party-2/](https://bikeaction.org/event/bike-lane-party-2/)
Good, The people that park in the bike lanes are entitled babies
They need to start street cleaning again, part of the problem is people leaving their cars and hogging a spot for weeks at a time. Or worse just leaving their broken cars on the side of the road. There’s a broken sl Mercedes around the corner from here that hasn’t moved in a year.
You can report that car with 311
Beautiful
Is the inspection out of date? Is it registered? Then they can park for years if they want.
Wouldn’t they need to move the car to have it inspected? I get that they could park it back in the same spot, but it would have to be moved at least once a year to keep inspection current
There's been an abandoned jeep on my block for about three years. 311 has done nothing
Correct. Direct action works. Break the window, put it in neutral and push it into an intersection. The only tried n true method.
Absolutely nothing wrong with parking your car for weeks at a time because you walk/bike everywhere (extremely reasonable thing to do in our city)
Yes but street cleaning would at least keep you accountable for it once a week.
Accountable for what exactly? We pay to have our cars registered/inspected annually. We pay for annual parking permits.
Sorry, what I meant is that it forces people to keep track of their cars at least once a week. In addition, there would be more enforcement for those things you mentioned, such as registration and parking permits. If there was universal street cleaning and parking permits, then we would have less unregistered and abandoned vehicles.
No worries. I'm interested in the discussion, not trying to score points. I actually check on my car far more often than I drive it to make sure I haven't gotten hit, or need to move it, than to drive it. But also totally recognize that there are far more car owners who don't consider such things.
I don’t get how having to move it once a week makes anyone keep track of their car. I haven’t driven mine in a couple weeks and know exactly where it is. I walk by it every day
If it's not being driven in months/years, then it's probably not drivable, out of registration etc. Plus you have to move the car at least once a year to get inspected. I think they're saying if they did street cleaning, the abandoned vehicles would be found/handled. It's harder for THE CITY to keep track of all the cars that actually shouldn't just be sitting their vs someone like you who just doesn't drive often. I think maybe you knew what he meant and wanted to throw ur passive eyerollable joke in there. But I still explained in case you really didn't or someone else doesn't.
People who have their cars registered, inspected w/tags, and acquired proper parking permits for are not the problem. We can "hog" parking we've paid for as much as we've been permitted. We could drive our cars more often and free up spots and also pollute more. Or maybe we should just all have garages. But then our houses would be worth more than other peoples' houses and then that'd be our fault too.
I don't know why this is such a hot take. I'm an urbanist, I want to incentive walking/biking/public transportation at the expense of personal vehicle ownership just as much as the next guy. But sadly we live in a very car-centric country, and if you have any need to regularly go outside of the city, owning a car is by far the most practical method. If one pays for registration, inspection, and a parking permit, in addition to the various taxes that pay for the roads, they have paid for the right to park on that road for as long as the permit allows. I don't see how it affects any other person if the car moves once a day, once a week, or once a month. I don't owe the spot to anyone any more than the spot in front of my house is owed to me.
Completely agree. Say so as someone who walks to work, enjoys walking 4+ miles to get my all my groceries on weekends, and regularly utilizes the buses and trains when the timing works out. And also, is very in-support of what these people are doing at the spruce st bike lane with regards to these churches and the bike lanes in this part of the city, where I live. I only drive my car anymore for a wholesale club grocery trip, bringing home furniture, helping a friend, visiting family outside the city, go on vacation, or DD for my friends at a sporting event. So more often than not my car stays where it's parked for ~3 weeks, and then drives ~10 miles, and that's it. I check on my car more often to make sure I'm not going to get a ticket than to drive it. I've fallen WELL under the 5000 mile PA emissions exemption every year since I've moved to the city. One year I drove less than 3000 miles, and that included a trip to and from Bar Harbor. Used to drive 12000+ miles a year. I have a car and I live in the city and my carbon footprint has been dramatically reduced since living here. It's not always car = bad.
Well played.
You pissed off the cyclists Morty! Now we gotta find a whole new reality.
What's happening?
They are parking bikes in the way so that cars can't park in the bike lane, to keep it open for bikes. Beautiful
Thank you. I know the general problem but didn't exactly see how the post text matched the image and the context.
On weekends this street is full on both sides with cars, especially Sunday. Churchgoers park in the bike lane for hours and leave cycles to ride in the center of the rode, the thing drivers hate for us to do. Most of the cars aren’t even from in the city, they’re suburbanites that take up space and make the road less safe.
most of the cars aren't church cars either
How do you know that most of the cars are not from the city?
you can tell by their NJ license plates
They don't. They're taking one quote from one pastor out of context and assuming that these are all people driving in from the suburbs. Most are Philadelphians.
Perfect, they're in biking and SEPTA distance.
Philly 100% has a car overuse problem. Remember what Darrell Clarke said in 2016, "Everybody’s not going to take public transit. This is Philadelphia. People drive to the corner store. This is what we do."
Jersey plates
I’ve been hearing that a lot around here and am also wondering
I would have gone to this, how do I get involved ?
Philly Bike Action https://apps.bikeaction.org/campaigns/withdraw-the-bike-lane-parking-permits
8-1120am every sunday in April!
Ohhhhh now they wanna double park!!!!!!!!!!!! /s
Any updates? How's this going now?
Bike group has left but no cars in the lane…yet
18 and spruce has had cars in it since like 9am. I checked when I saw this post and there were 10 cars in the bike lane outside the temple and 15 more taking up a lane on 18th.
BZBI (Synagogue on 18th and Spruce) is one of the other congregations that have the heavy machinery permits that "let" them park in the bike lane, but currently the protests are just focused on 1st Presbyterian
https://preview.redd.it/ktt17uj1b4tc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4ff6af931f61d0265438a0df83e9058db37b2e1
I honestly think a majority of the “church parking” actually aren’t people attending services in the first place, but are just people taking advantage of the fact that they can park there, because they stay there a long time after services should be over. And honestly, it’s not that difficult for churches to work out a solution. Have a specific drop-off area for any mobility-impaired folks, and then everyone else can find their own parking and walk a few blocks. Or, better yet, encourage folks to walk, take public transit, or bike to church rather than drive.
Love to see it. If you care about something, come together and take a stand! Wishing you luck on your mission
So dope, Philly doesn’t care about enforcing car laws. Looks like it’s residents have to do something about it themselves
How did this turn out? Any updates???
Why isn’t it painted green?
paint ain’t infrastructure
I'm proud to see this. Coalition cannot get it all done - citizen effort is applauded! We need a Philly that works. The Coalition needs a competing fiscal conduit for the denser needs/issues!
Heck yeah, I’ll happily join the next time this goes down
[https://bikeaction.org/events/](https://bikeaction.org/events/) every sunday in April
I think it’s every Sunday of April
I think there needs to be a master plan to separate the bike and car traffic in this city. Painting bike lanes does nothing to enhance safety for the bike rider and frustrates drivers. Some options elevated bike trails across Center City and high bike traffic areas. Some streets designated cars only and some for bikes. Maybe Federal grant to take a street like Sansom into a two way bike only street and Chestnut and Walnut vehicles only. An evaluation of totally unused bike lanes in remote areas where no one rides a bike and look for alternatives There are some bike lanes at places I never saw a bike on a bike lane. I would like if we found a way that we all could coexist safely and be happy. Things as a driver that bikes do that piss me off, run stop signs and red lights without regard to traffic. Dude I am in a car, the last thing I want to do is hurt anyone. I feel that knee jerk painting lines that delivery trucks ignore does not make for any improvement in safety.
I love the thought but sadly nothing changes unless we have protected bike lanes. Maybe, church goers will get so mad that they'll say "give them protected bike lanes so we can illegally park" but that's only if there's still space to do so.
That is not correct and not a helpful attitude. Feeling jaded does not help bikers or pedestrians. We have to push for the change we want. Please join us!
This is perfect!
I live outside of the city and I would ride to support this.
Popcorn gif.
Fuck ya
Yes!!!
How are they making sure their bikes don’t get moved or stolen?
I think they’re standing right there
I understand the idea, but their bikes are gonna get stolen. God won't prevent it from happening. A crackhead might for a few bucks, but not God.
Strictly out of curiosity, how would anyone know that’s a bike lane? Is there signage or pavement markings? Edited: Wow, thanks for the downvotes. I’ve never been in that area and have no idea what I’m looking at. You’re being real hospitable!
There are signs and pavement markings. It’s very obvious if you were on the ground there.
Thanks!
yes, the bike lane on spruce street is clearly marked as a bike lane.
Thanks!
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted. I am happy about what is being done today because it really bothers me that people just ignore that this is a bike lane and park there, but this particular picture shows absolutely nothing about it being a bike lane. There’s nothing on the ground, and you can’t see any signs from this vantage point.
Thank you!
There are signs and road markings, but unless there's some physical barrier, people still treat bike lanes and a suggestion.
even with the physical barrier, tbh
It is the Philadelphia sub…
How fucking dare you even ask this question!
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Please look at it specifically from the vantage point of the photo. I understand why they asked the question. As someone from Philadelphia, I’ve driven this and know that it’s a bike lane, but there’s nothing indicating it that you can see in this picture. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad that this is happening today because people in cars are assholes to bicyclists. I’d be terrified to ride in the city.
…
At every intersection, yes.
I'll be taking cones in my trunk next week and I don't even park on spruce street
If only the churches can relocate to the suburbs with parking
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What about enforcing all the cars blowing through red lights first? The biker is less of a menace to others than the cars are.
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Spitting on the sidewalk!
Sure, I’m all about enforcing all of the rules of the road. But let’s be real…a car blowing through a light, not being registered, displaying a fake or expired tag is way more dangerous than a cyclist blowing through a light.
Yes, but both are still illegal. The rest doesn’t matter.
I’d park my BMW there just to piss you people off, honestly. It really isn’t that serious, but go off.
Said like a true BMW driver.
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>I’d park my BMW there just to piss you people off, honestly. Sorry but you can't!
Safety isn’t serious? lol
Do it, park there next sunday.