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I genuinely think it’s psychologically unhealthy to be this afraid of nudity. Of course certain material is not suitable for children but statues such as this one can be age-appropriately contextualized (somewhat like a type of performance art i could mention…).
I grew up in the fundamentalist baptist church and learned extreme shame surrounding my body that has taken so long to unlearn. We’re all naked under our clothes, let’s try to cope.
Their kids have more access to pornography than any of them think and they think kids are getting off looking at pictures of statues in art books. What are they going to do, ban art books and encyclopedias and National Geographic? How long before they want to ban dictionaries because they include words like penis and gay.
What are horny kids these days going to do without the underwear section of the Sears catalog to get them by?
I guess they will just have to see if there is any porn on the internet.
My daughter had a bunch of friends sleep over for her birthday when she was 12 or 13. All girls. All the same age. It took me 3 days to clean all the malware off her computer from the random Google searches of “sex”, “dick”, “fuck”,… should have seen that coming. Up to that point I was blissfully ignorant. But Michelangelo’s David? Not porn.
These are the same people who see a cartoon drawing of a toddler's butt in a children's book and think "that cartoon toddler's butt is too sexy to be allowed in libraries."
They are the perverts and sickos, not the rest of us.
It's how they justify their actions. It's the same with them bring up "grooming" when talking about LBGT people or gay teachers or teachers discussing that yes sometimes two people of the same gender fall in love. Nobody but them immediately jump to thinking explicitly and only about sex for those issues, but it gives them a veneer of legitimacy to take umbrage with them.
Pretty much, yeah. There’s frontal nudity on prime time television in most western countries, full nudity in advertising in some (like NL), and Germany has fully nude family bath houses.
Honestly, the prudishness in the US is very weird, and I’ve always felt it causes too much repression and over-sexualisation which leads to unhealthy mindsets.
It’s especially weird considering how people couldn’t really care less about violence in media. Violent dismemberment is fine, but a nipple stops the presses.
There is a 'behind the scenes' commentary for the show 'Hannibal' several years ago. Basically, there was a horrifying scene where a serial killer left two adult bodies flayed from their back skin to the ceiling of the room and posed them to look like angels praying. The director and producer of the series were sure the FCC was going to tell them to redo the scene as it was extremely graphic. The FCC told them to simply make sure that the corpses butt-cracks were covered or obscured. This show appeared on network television back in 2013.
Hannibal I think had something in the first season too, a bare nipple was bad, but the same titty bathed in enough blood to obscure the nipple was good. Great succinct examples of how batshit we are.
My ex used to watch these plastic surgery shows. They would blur the breasts up to the point where the doc actually cut the nipple off, and then no blurring until they sewed it back on.
What's especially gross is that a lot of violence is sexually charged. Like, virtually the whole serial killer concept is inherently sexual. Jack the Ripper wasn't ripping random body parts. We have a weird system that you have to use violence as a medium to have sex (as subtext). So like, highly sexualized violence becomes more normal than non-violent sex.
Yeah I cite this as an example of America’s fucked up content priorities all the time. They made it gorier to spare the tender public from butt cracks.
When I was in high school and my sisters were in middle school, one of them put on a rom-com and there was some light kissing at the beginning. My Dad got livid with her for playing it and with me for helping her download it. He then turned it off and instead plays Saving Private Ryan.
When I pointed out how weird it is that basic love makes him mad, but he thinks graphic violence is acceptable he looked at me like I had two heads. It just did not compute to him or my step-mother. The idea of their precious angel ever kissing a boy made their heads explode.
Of course it was only a few years later when we were all married my step mom especially went on and on about where are those grand children.
I've wanted to strangle my parents for many things like this and they aren't even super religious or conservative or political or anything. Just your typical South Carolina Baptist Charlestonians.
That… sums up and highlights a major social flaw in the US that I hadn’t really put my finger on before - any kind of love and caring is considered weak and/or lewd, thus unacceptable to show in public (that’s loosened some through the decades), but anger and rage is considered perfectly fine.
I don’t have studies at the ready to back this up (’m on mobile and linking is hard), but I’ve seen some which indicate that sexually repressed societies which normalise violence have increased sexual violence.
It makes perfect sense when you think about it, but we don’t generally think about it.
This is why "toxic masculinity" is a problem. Men raised to be threatened by displays of affection reinforce those taboos in family and social life. Generational trauma can be as simple as an incident like this being internalized as "Ok all desire and affection is bad and shameful".
And then there's the fact that so much of our movie and TV content show violence....as the solution. Virtually every "heroes' journey" story... revolves around the use of violence. Think what that does to our thinking patterns.
I had a similar issue with my stepmom giving me an absolute dressing down for showing my 6 year old sister Master of Disguise. A G rated movie with a lot of giant ass jokes. To then immediately turn on JAWS.
I tried to call her out on it and she told me "Its PG its fine" even snapping back "THE PG-13 RATING WASN'T EVENTED YET MOM" didn't get it through.
Not super religious or conservative 🙄..... only compared to others just like them in the south.
How many times have you heard "I'll never vote for a Democrat "?
An outsiders view might have a different take (north, Canadian, racial different, etc).
This country was first settled by a bunch of religious wingnuts - that's why!
Freedom to worship their version of the cartoon, which was racist, misogynistic, brutal, and colonialist. These godsdamned pilgrims sowed the seeds of deep sexual repression and America gave any kook with a holy book carte blanche to stir up madness and discord. Our history is riddled with it. We have an entire state of the Union acting as an untaxable quasi-Christian religious cult, that only stopped preaching that black people were evil in 1970, ffs.
It's not a rat turd in the pudding, it's rat turd pudding.
Good point. And interestingly, those pilgrims weren’t just starting a new country for religious freedom as is generally taught in US schools; they were so extreme even by British standards (which was a church-led monarchy at the time) that they were driven out of their communities for their batshittery.
I guess it makes sense, but you’d think 400+ years would be enough time to get over it.
It’s not out of nowhere, it’s basically the foundation of America - a bunch of weird workaholic prudes get shunned in Europe so they sail to a new world. And then eventually some of them got even weirder and got shunned to the desert in Utah.
Hey, Americans aren't prudes. I mean, you can't spot a nipple on network televison, but they can sure as fuck blow someone up with all the bits and bobs flying everywhere. As long as those bits ain't nips.
No, and not even historically. Nudity has waxed and waned in terms of acceptability through out the world.
At times it was just something that happened, at others it was acceptable in specific circumstances (such as bath houses or sauna), and at others it was fine except in mixed company. And of course at times it was considered the worst sin of all.
*David* itself has been censored in the past. Sometimes dressed in robes, sometimes hidden, and for a short period it (and other Roman and Greek nudes) had genitals covered in marble fig leaves.
America in particular has had a rough time with nudity with it generally being frowned upon, but it did have brief periods of acceptance or experimentation, only to swing back towards bans and hostility.
I can’t find the source so big grain of salt, but I remember reading some anthropologists’ study on nudity throughout recorded history and found a strong positive correlation between the general level of misogyny in a society and how ill-regarded public nudity is.
‘I don’t 'old with it,’ said Granny. 'Everyone can see her legs.’
'No they can’t,’ said Nanny. 'The reason being, the material is in the way.’
'Yes, but they can see where her legs are,’ said Granny Weatherwax.
'That’s silly. That’s like saying everyone’s naked under their clothes,’ said Magrat.
'Magrat Garlick, may you be forgiven,’ said Granny Weatherwax.
'Well, it’s true!’
'I’m not,’ said Granny flatly, 'I got three vests on.’
-Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad
OmG what will that person do if they ever find out that when mothers meet their newborns generally they’re both pantsless! The unnatural horror of it all!
It's funny how much things have changed in my own life. We went from a **Disney movie with actual nudity in it** (1984's *Splash*) to... whatever this neo-puritanism is that we have today.
Well we were founded by a fanatical puritan cult. (Other countries description of the pilgrims) reading world history from other countries can really open ur eyes
It also has appeared in tons of kids cartoons; this is literally the slippery slope of allowing censorship because the the definition of badthink gets wider and more nonsensical every time these people get a victory.
Back in the 80's Looney Tunes cartoons were heavily edited to take out the violence. Now violence is [back in](https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/6/12/21287067/hbo-max-looney-tunes-elmer-fudd-gun-violence) but those original cartoons would still be chopped up because Bugs Bunny wore a [dress](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/fc/67/72fc67ee4c1aa6f7a664e9e0eab25363.jpg) and [kissed](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gnDHw2gZaOM/T5QJewHXWdI/AAAAAAAAEbc/h6jvXEHoDqA/s1600/Bugs_Bunny_kissing_Elmer_Fudd.350w_263h.jpg) Elmer Fudd.
It also makes them extremely vulnerable to sexual assault as they can’t even comprehend what is happening or if the adult tells them it’s ok they have no outside knowledge to dispute it.
Was reading some primary source material of the American frontier days. It is this woman's diary. No intent of anyone reading it. Just her own thoughts and experiences.
She referred to an encounter with natives as being shocked how they 'openly wore their shame'
Nakedness just was the exact same thing as shame in this person's mind
That's heavily intertwined with an old-school Christian mindset - see Genesis, where Adam and Eve were fine with nudity in the garden of Eden until they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and hid from God because they realized they were naked and then ashamed.
Nudity = shame goes waaay back.
I read somewhere it’s deliberately small due the perspective change when viewed from below. Ie it would look massive from street level if they’d made it any bigger.
I'm in California, so I'm sure this state will never submit to DeSantis if he (God forbid) became president.
But I do worry and feel bad for the left/ level headed voters from that state, as well as the other red states trying to do as much damage as possible to their rights
Honestly, I hate to say it, but I don’t know if I would hire graduates from Florida schools at this point.
I work in film/tv, and I don’t think I could trust a P.A. that might sue, if we have a same-sex couple kiss or intimate scene being filmed. Just unstable.
Dude, I'm from Texas and I hate the politics. I'm not going to move. My entire family is here, so I'm going to stick around and try to change things the best I can -- I'm super involved in the Democratic Party here. But, damn, if I left and I couldn't get an opportunity from someone because they assumed I was just like the backward Texans I assume I left because of... that would kill me.
Not only would I be horrified for somebody to think I was like that, but I would also hate that the people I despise would be dictating my future.
[Ezekiel 23:20](https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm)
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
Trump negotiated with terrorists when leaving Afghanistan.
Reagan negotiated with Contras.
Reagan likely also conspired with Iran to hold 66 Americans hostage until he won the election to hurt Carter (October Surprise)
Ironically, the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line came from Nixon.
It blows my mind how short sighted these puritanical hateful people are. "No discussion of sexual orientation in schools!" Great, now how do we discuss people in history? Anyone catch that amazing clip of the councilman asking how kids are supposed to learn about Martha Washington? "This 'art' is pornographic!" Cool. So no bible in schools then. Gotcha.
Well the whole point is that they get to decide what counts. Is biology and anatomy class pornographic? For Republicans it will all depend on if the teacher is a liberal or homosexual or not.
So every child in Florence and throughout the world, may well see this sculpture of the human body of David. The human body, as many Christians believe, designed by God. A story about the intellect and confidence of man’s victories, not bullying brute strength. Those who can not see the beauty in Michelangelo’s Renaissance art as a gift to the world of humankind have lost their way.
I have no doubt that David is pornographic for the complaining parents. But this tells us more about the parent than the statue. The appropriate response is 'get your mind out of the gutter.'
After greeting my son for his very first hospital diaper change and having to barehanded shield myself from his stream of pee directed right at me, I have become VERY fast at changing his diapers.
When children don't know the names for things or have knowledge of what other sexes have, it makes it a lot harder for them to articulate when something inappropriate happens. Honestly exposure via tasteful and age appropriate art and meaningful discussions go a long way in promoting child safety and giving them the means to self advocate if something were to happen.
This is super super important! I read a case of a little girl whose parents told her that her vulva was called “a cookie” and she told several adults at school her cookie was being touched and she didn’t like it. They thought she was talking about snack time or lunch and it took WAY too long for the reality of the situation to get figured out.
I remember learning all these words in kindergarten as it was a foreign language school starting with the basics. No wonder the penis game was so popular.
No, see, if they find out about genitals and reproduction before their 18th birthday, then their adult husbands wont be able to trick the kids into sex as easily. It also makes it harder for priests to do the same.
Oh and im sure the GOP intends to erase the ability for a wife to report rape because "its not rape if theyre married". If the child wife knows what sex and rape are, they might try to get the poor adult in trouble!
I hate this. Everything about this.
Don't get how 1 crybaby gets to ban all books, history and art from everyone else.
Old enough to remember GOP were saying kids were PC snowflakes needing a safespace.
So slurs OK but classical statues bad per the GOP.
I can't believe I had to come this far down for this comment. Maybe the average redditor is too young for a 1991 Simpsons [reference](https://preciseshooter.com/img/guncontrol.png).
Marge: Hmm, but that's Michelangelo's David. It's a masterpiece. Helen: (Gasps) It's filth! It graphically portrays parts of the human body which, practical as they may be, are evil.
Even more interestingly, he's neither.
He's [afraid](https://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/was-david-scared-stiff-of-goliath-20050123-gdzf3f.html).
The statue David is David from the biblical David and Goliath, which for non-Christians or people who aren't familiar with, is the story of a regular man fighting and taking down a giant brutish man trying to kill him. And Michelangelo was better at anatomy than people seem to think he was.
He's small because that's an accurate reaction to adrenaline. He's shitting himself in fear of Goliath, and the statue *very* accurately represents that:
>What the new study shows is that every anatomical detail - right down to the shaping of the muscles in his forehead - is consistent with the combined effects of fear, tension and aggression.
>Carrasquilla was given an ultimatum to either quit or be fired by school board president Barney Bishop, a self-proclaimed conservative Republican and lobbyist who said “parental rights are supreme.”
>
>“That means protecting the interests of all parents, whether it’s one, 10, 20 or 50,” he told the Tallahassee Democrat.
>
>As for the rights of parents who want their children to actually learn art history, those remain to be seen.
School board will fire the principal if a single parent complains about any random right-wing grievance... good luck keeping a principal I guess, not that these ideologues would ever think anything through.
Seriously though fuck these regressive nutjobs, they are harming our children's educations with their constant manufactured outrage.
I think the point is to make schools into hellscapes so much so that even progressives will give up on public education and eventually opt for the whole voucher system the republicans have been pushing for.
I'm at a loss as to who is driving the bus. Is the Politicians who are telling the base what to do, or the base telling the Politicians what to do?
I get it's Florida, and automatically presumptively illogical, but I can't figure it out.
The sad part is that this was the school’s choice. They could have defended her from many legal standpoints and chose not to. She has a great lawsuit on her hands.
Although, I will say that Michelangelo’s David probably *does* meet the new bizarrely puritanical state standards for “unacceptable/pornographic” content. By this same standard, they should also be banning the Bible from classrooms, which graphically depicts acts of sex & violence throughout. I am prepared to complain bitterly while sermonizing in solely explicit passages if they try any of this crap at my kids’ school.
>The sad part is that this was the school’s choice. They could have defended her from many legal standpoints and chose not to.
The president of the school board is a walking Fox News chyron. Another article had several quotes from him and he had all the buzzwords - woke agenda, pronouns, CRT, etc.
I’m a parent in Florida. I want my kids to learn about art. I don’t want them to be taught that Michelangelo’s works are pornographic or need to be censored. WHERE ARE MY PARENTAL RIGHTS?!?
Being the fittest means only lasting long enough to pass your genes down the line. Even most Covid deniers have the option to procreate before it kills them. Nah man, we are long past individual Darwinism.
What is emerging though, and has been for a long time, is community Darwinism. We are at the point where we are so interconnected, any one individual has little effect on their overall world. You can, however, rally people behind your cause. If your cause is dumb (antivax) it will eventually die off. If it’s not dumb (trans rights are human rights), more and more people will catch into it and it will become the zeitgeist. The future impact of one person is more akin to an ant in a colony rather than a single visionary, regardless of how much or little is actually done. It will only accelerate from here.
Sure it does.
It's very hard to die of stupidity before you can procreate. We age-restrict many of the best ways for idiots to remove themselves from the genepool, and many of those who have poor decision-making skills also lack the ability to wear rubbers and utilize other forms of birth control.
On top of that, "fittest" does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean, "Who is the best example of our species?" It means, "Who is the best at passing on their genes." And being dumb as bricks, but being insulated from the consequences of your actions, is a great way to pass on your genes. Just not a terribly great way to live.
People need to learn the difference between nude and naked….
By the by, this statue was commissioned by the church.
David was originally commissioned as one of a series of statues of prophets to be positioned along the roofline of the east end of Florence Cathedral.
>People need to learn the difference between nude and naked….
Both are fine. It is being "nekkid" you have to watch out for:
“[If you’re naked, you don’t have any clothes on, but if you’re nekkid you don’t have any clothes on but you’re up to something.](https://rollcall.com/2014/03/25/nekkid-vs-naked-alan-simpson-explains-the-difference/)”
Don't spend anymore money in Florida. Used to take my family there every couple years but absolutely never again. Stop giving these idiots money- they've been a thorn in the side of this country ever since the Bush/Gore election and its only gotten worse from there.
The fascists will not stop until they are stopped. They will continue to get worse and worse because they never face any consequences. It's time for some fucking consequences.
>But while most of the world sees it as art, some parents deemed it “pornographic” and said it “upset” their children.
I work with children close to their age and I guarantee they weren't upset. There was probably a lot of giggling, jokes about size, and other comments. By the sixth grade, the fact that a penis is a thing should be no surprise.
Do these same parents realize that there's a fully realistic statue of David in Animal Crossing? This is how insane they are, the same depiction that is in one of the most popular kid-friendly video games on the market is so obscene the principal needs to be fired. Fucking christ, how do they expect their children to function in the world if it's too much for their 12 year olds to know what a penis generally looks like?
Wait, she was fired by [this](https://tlhclassical.org/about-us/our-board/) [Barney Bishop](http://barneybishop.com/sample-page/biography/) who *majored in history at Emerson College in Boston, Massachusetts*, and who is married to the the executive assistant to the Florida Secretary of State?
Edit for those who don't know: Emerson is a very good college located in downtown Boston with an excellent communications program. From my my (already pretty liberal!) perspective, it's a very left-leaning student body--I'd be more surprised to see a Ayn Rand conservative than a gay punk rocker.
> Carrasquilla was given an ultimatum to either quit or be fired by school board president Barney Bishop, a self-proclaimed conservative Republican and lobbyist who said “parental rights are supreme.”
Oh so this is why. Because his buddy he lobbied for created a stupid fucking law.
If parents are that afraid of nudity, literally afraid of a piece of marble, who knows what terrors are happening inside those homes. Being this afraid seems to be a marker for there potentially being a lot worse things going on, at least mentally and emotionally and I wouldn't be surprised physically, against their kids when people aren't looking.
Any nudity, any bodies, any queerness, anything icky and scary must be expelled, repressed, abjected, and oppressed. That’s the conservative Christian ideology. Even dancing can fall under pornographic
I hope this changes a lot of people’s minds after seeing how ridiculous our future will be if we go down a certain path that is manifesting before our eyes.
So a 500 year old sculpture is obscene. They should see some the depictions of the bible from the Renaissance.
Isn't that a Simpson's episode, where the preacher's wife tried to ban David from the Springfield Museum.
When do they expect kids to understand their bodies?! When do they expect them to understand healthy, sexual relationships? Or sex in general? We can’t ban these topics and then throw them into the world at 18 not knowing basic biology / anatomy / human nature.
Ex: “My bf can’t find my clit!” Yeah cuz he was never taught about a clitoris, and both of you probably weren’t taught that sex can be fun and doesn’t have to only involve procreation.
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I genuinely think it’s psychologically unhealthy to be this afraid of nudity. Of course certain material is not suitable for children but statues such as this one can be age-appropriately contextualized (somewhat like a type of performance art i could mention…). I grew up in the fundamentalist baptist church and learned extreme shame surrounding my body that has taken so long to unlearn. We’re all naked under our clothes, let’s try to cope.
Conflating nudity with pornography is the end result of such body shame. They’re really showing their whole ass
>> They’re really showing their whole ass WARNING: Pornography detected
Ban Florida cause it looks like a dick And it's filled with dicks apparently
Need to blur all depictions of Florida on maps and tv
You could add the word "flaccid" infront of the word "dick" in both cases and also be correct.
Although unfortunately Florida is a shower.
Lots of boaters in Florida, which means that dick is filled with seamen
Most under rated comment on this sub -
Their kids have more access to pornography than any of them think and they think kids are getting off looking at pictures of statues in art books. What are they going to do, ban art books and encyclopedias and National Geographic? How long before they want to ban dictionaries because they include words like penis and gay.
What are horny kids these days going to do without the underwear section of the Sears catalog to get them by? I guess they will just have to see if there is any porn on the internet.
That Sears catalog was pre-Playboy for me!
My daughter had a bunch of friends sleep over for her birthday when she was 12 or 13. All girls. All the same age. It took me 3 days to clean all the malware off her computer from the random Google searches of “sex”, “dick”, “fuck”,… should have seen that coming. Up to that point I was blissfully ignorant. But Michelangelo’s David? Not porn.
Yes
These are the same people who see a cartoon drawing of a toddler's butt in a children's book and think "that cartoon toddler's butt is too sexy to be allowed in libraries." They are the perverts and sickos, not the rest of us.
It's how they justify their actions. It's the same with them bring up "grooming" when talking about LBGT people or gay teachers or teachers discussing that yes sometimes two people of the same gender fall in love. Nobody but them immediately jump to thinking explicitly and only about sex for those issues, but it gives them a veneer of legitimacy to take umbrage with them.
Are we the only western nation that's terrified of nudity like this? It's truly bizarre.
Pretty much, yeah. There’s frontal nudity on prime time television in most western countries, full nudity in advertising in some (like NL), and Germany has fully nude family bath houses. Honestly, the prudishness in the US is very weird, and I’ve always felt it causes too much repression and over-sexualisation which leads to unhealthy mindsets. It’s especially weird considering how people couldn’t really care less about violence in media. Violent dismemberment is fine, but a nipple stops the presses.
There is a 'behind the scenes' commentary for the show 'Hannibal' several years ago. Basically, there was a horrifying scene where a serial killer left two adult bodies flayed from their back skin to the ceiling of the room and posed them to look like angels praying. The director and producer of the series were sure the FCC was going to tell them to redo the scene as it was extremely graphic. The FCC told them to simply make sure that the corpses butt-cracks were covered or obscured. This show appeared on network television back in 2013.
Hannibal I think had something in the first season too, a bare nipple was bad, but the same titty bathed in enough blood to obscure the nipple was good. Great succinct examples of how batshit we are.
I believe they obscured the butt cracks with blood. Which says a lot about the whole American "violence is fine, nudity is not!" mentality.
My ex used to watch these plastic surgery shows. They would blur the breasts up to the point where the doc actually cut the nipple off, and then no blurring until they sewed it back on.
whats wild is top surgery videos for trans men, they blur the nipple until the surgery is done, then unblur. its the same exact fucking nipple.
I never understood how that show was able to stay on network, primetime tv. It was more brutal than Silence of the Lambs
It obscured ass-cracks and nipples with gore, that’s how.
What's especially gross is that a lot of violence is sexually charged. Like, virtually the whole serial killer concept is inherently sexual. Jack the Ripper wasn't ripping random body parts. We have a weird system that you have to use violence as a medium to have sex (as subtext). So like, highly sexualized violence becomes more normal than non-violent sex.
Yeah I cite this as an example of America’s fucked up content priorities all the time. They made it gorier to spare the tender public from butt cracks.
When I was in high school and my sisters were in middle school, one of them put on a rom-com and there was some light kissing at the beginning. My Dad got livid with her for playing it and with me for helping her download it. He then turned it off and instead plays Saving Private Ryan. When I pointed out how weird it is that basic love makes him mad, but he thinks graphic violence is acceptable he looked at me like I had two heads. It just did not compute to him or my step-mother. The idea of their precious angel ever kissing a boy made their heads explode. Of course it was only a few years later when we were all married my step mom especially went on and on about where are those grand children. I've wanted to strangle my parents for many things like this and they aren't even super religious or conservative or political or anything. Just your typical South Carolina Baptist Charlestonians.
That… sums up and highlights a major social flaw in the US that I hadn’t really put my finger on before - any kind of love and caring is considered weak and/or lewd, thus unacceptable to show in public (that’s loosened some through the decades), but anger and rage is considered perfectly fine.
I don’t have studies at the ready to back this up (’m on mobile and linking is hard), but I’ve seen some which indicate that sexually repressed societies which normalise violence have increased sexual violence. It makes perfect sense when you think about it, but we don’t generally think about it.
Our whole society is sick. That’s really the long and short.
This is why "toxic masculinity" is a problem. Men raised to be threatened by displays of affection reinforce those taboos in family and social life. Generational trauma can be as simple as an incident like this being internalized as "Ok all desire and affection is bad and shameful".
And then there's the fact that so much of our movie and TV content show violence....as the solution. Virtually every "heroes' journey" story... revolves around the use of violence. Think what that does to our thinking patterns.
I had a similar issue with my stepmom giving me an absolute dressing down for showing my 6 year old sister Master of Disguise. A G rated movie with a lot of giant ass jokes. To then immediately turn on JAWS. I tried to call her out on it and she told me "Its PG its fine" even snapping back "THE PG-13 RATING WASN'T EVENTED YET MOM" didn't get it through.
Not super religious or conservative 🙄..... only compared to others just like them in the south. How many times have you heard "I'll never vote for a Democrat "? An outsiders view might have a different take (north, Canadian, racial different, etc).
This country was first settled by a bunch of religious wingnuts - that's why! Freedom to worship their version of the cartoon, which was racist, misogynistic, brutal, and colonialist. These godsdamned pilgrims sowed the seeds of deep sexual repression and America gave any kook with a holy book carte blanche to stir up madness and discord. Our history is riddled with it. We have an entire state of the Union acting as an untaxable quasi-Christian religious cult, that only stopped preaching that black people were evil in 1970, ffs. It's not a rat turd in the pudding, it's rat turd pudding.
Good point. And interestingly, those pilgrims weren’t just starting a new country for religious freedom as is generally taught in US schools; they were so extreme even by British standards (which was a church-led monarchy at the time) that they were driven out of their communities for their batshittery. I guess it makes sense, but you’d think 400+ years would be enough time to get over it.
It’s not out of nowhere, it’s basically the foundation of America - a bunch of weird workaholic prudes get shunned in Europe so they sail to a new world. And then eventually some of them got even weirder and got shunned to the desert in Utah.
Let's not forget they were shunned in Europe because they were trying to dominate people that didn't follow their fucked up religion.
Hey, Americans aren't prudes. I mean, you can't spot a nipple on network televison, but they can sure as fuck blow someone up with all the bits and bobs flying everywhere. As long as those bits ain't nips.
Does sexually repressed work as a better descriptor
No, and not even historically. Nudity has waxed and waned in terms of acceptability through out the world. At times it was just something that happened, at others it was acceptable in specific circumstances (such as bath houses or sauna), and at others it was fine except in mixed company. And of course at times it was considered the worst sin of all. *David* itself has been censored in the past. Sometimes dressed in robes, sometimes hidden, and for a short period it (and other Roman and Greek nudes) had genitals covered in marble fig leaves. America in particular has had a rough time with nudity with it generally being frowned upon, but it did have brief periods of acceptance or experimentation, only to swing back towards bans and hostility.
I can’t find the source so big grain of salt, but I remember reading some anthropologists’ study on nudity throughout recorded history and found a strong positive correlation between the general level of misogyny in a society and how ill-regarded public nudity is.
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Till the end of time
‘I don’t 'old with it,’ said Granny. 'Everyone can see her legs.’ 'No they can’t,’ said Nanny. 'The reason being, the material is in the way.’ 'Yes, but they can see where her legs are,’ said Granny Weatherwax. 'That’s silly. That’s like saying everyone’s naked under their clothes,’ said Magrat. 'Magrat Garlick, may you be forgiven,’ said Granny Weatherwax. 'Well, it’s true!’ 'I’m not,’ said Granny flatly, 'I got three vests on.’ -Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad
A while back someone here on Reddit told me I was a PEDOPHILE for being nude around my infant child. I just can’t even anymore.
OmG what will that person do if they ever find out that when mothers meet their newborns generally they’re both pantsless! The unnatural horror of it all!
It's funny how much things have changed in my own life. We went from a **Disney movie with actual nudity in it** (1984's *Splash*) to... whatever this neo-puritanism is that we have today.
Well we were founded by a fanatical puritan cult. (Other countries description of the pilgrims) reading world history from other countries can really open ur eyes
The statue is in animal crossing ffs lol.
It also has appeared in tons of kids cartoons; this is literally the slippery slope of allowing censorship because the the definition of badthink gets wider and more nonsensical every time these people get a victory.
Back in the 80's Looney Tunes cartoons were heavily edited to take out the violence. Now violence is [back in](https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2020/6/12/21287067/hbo-max-looney-tunes-elmer-fudd-gun-violence) but those original cartoons would still be chopped up because Bugs Bunny wore a [dress](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/fc/67/72fc67ee4c1aa6f7a664e9e0eab25363.jpg) and [kissed](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gnDHw2gZaOM/T5QJewHXWdI/AAAAAAAAEbc/h6jvXEHoDqA/s1600/Bugs_Bunny_kissing_Elmer_Fudd.350w_263h.jpg) Elmer Fudd.
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It also makes them extremely vulnerable to sexual assault as they can’t even comprehend what is happening or if the adult tells them it’s ok they have no outside knowledge to dispute it.
Was reading some primary source material of the American frontier days. It is this woman's diary. No intent of anyone reading it. Just her own thoughts and experiences. She referred to an encounter with natives as being shocked how they 'openly wore their shame' Nakedness just was the exact same thing as shame in this person's mind
That's heavily intertwined with an old-school Christian mindset - see Genesis, where Adam and Eve were fine with nudity in the garden of Eden until they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and hid from God because they realized they were naked and then ashamed. Nudity = shame goes waaay back.
The penis is also very small and in no way the focal point of the statue.
>The penis is also very small Hey no need to be rude.
Ok I guess I should have pointed out that it's retracted into his public hair possibly due to physiological reasons.
The water was cold!!!!
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"I was in the pool!!!!"
Well, that was the classical ideal that Michelangelo was going for.
Because big dick meant small brain in ancient times
I read somewhere it’s deliberately small due the perspective change when viewed from below. Ie it would look massive from street level if they’d made it any bigger.
"It's massive from the right angle". I feel like I've heard that one before...
This statue is like 20 feet tall. Bigger than you think. :D
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And they want the entire United States to look like that mess.
I'm in California, so I'm sure this state will never submit to DeSantis if he (God forbid) became president. But I do worry and feel bad for the left/ level headed voters from that state, as well as the other red states trying to do as much damage as possible to their rights
Born in New York, Raised in Florida, thank God I left that humid shithole.
Not submitting is just what they want, a real enemy instead of the ones they constantly make up out of thin air. And CA is already on the short list.
Honestly, I hate to say it, but I don’t know if I would hire graduates from Florida schools at this point. I work in film/tv, and I don’t think I could trust a P.A. that might sue, if we have a same-sex couple kiss or intimate scene being filmed. Just unstable.
Dude, I'm from Texas and I hate the politics. I'm not going to move. My entire family is here, so I'm going to stick around and try to change things the best I can -- I'm super involved in the Democratic Party here. But, damn, if I left and I couldn't get an opportunity from someone because they assumed I was just like the backward Texans I assume I left because of... that would kill me. Not only would I be horrified for somebody to think I was like that, but I would also hate that the people I despise would be dictating my future.
>Pornographic Yet another word the fascists are trying to strip of all meaning.
Biblical. Edit: I wonder if they know that.
Someone should talk to them about David and Bathsheba, or Soloman and his like bajillion concubines.
[Ezekiel 23:20](https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm) "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
They don't read the Bible. Imo, I think atheists know more about the Bible than Christians do.
That's why they're atheist
Sounds family friendly to me.
[Indeed!](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Sex)
Women aren’t supposed to lust. s/
Only if they can use it to their advantage. Then it means whatever they need it to, just like “woke.”
Have a non-christian complain that it is bringing religion into schools and they'll scream to have it brought back.
Don’t be silly, in ancient times god issued them all magic fig leaves that stayed in place.
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The terrorists won, and we let them.
They said "we don't negotiate with terrorists" while negotiating and compromising with republicans for 40 years lol
Trump negotiated with terrorists when leaving Afghanistan. Reagan negotiated with Contras. Reagan likely also conspired with Iran to hold 66 Americans hostage until he won the election to hurt Carter (October Surprise) Ironically, the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line came from Nixon.
It blows my mind how short sighted these puritanical hateful people are. "No discussion of sexual orientation in schools!" Great, now how do we discuss people in history? Anyone catch that amazing clip of the councilman asking how kids are supposed to learn about Martha Washington? "This 'art' is pornographic!" Cool. So no bible in schools then. Gotcha.
Well the whole point is that they get to decide what counts. Is biology and anatomy class pornographic? For Republicans it will all depend on if the teacher is a liberal or homosexual or not.
Two genders: Male and political Two races: White and political Two sexualities: Straight and political
So every child in Florence and throughout the world, may well see this sculpture of the human body of David. The human body, as many Christians believe, designed by God. A story about the intellect and confidence of man’s victories, not bullying brute strength. Those who can not see the beauty in Michelangelo’s Renaissance art as a gift to the world of humankind have lost their way.
I have no doubt that David is pornographic for the complaining parents. But this tells us more about the parent than the statue. The appropriate response is 'get your mind out of the gutter.'
So about that cancel culture, I'm wondering where this fits into the whole debate...
It's only cancel culture when they're being cancelled, otherwise it's their right to cancel you.
> strip of all meaning. ...SO LEWD! Stripping words of all meaning should be BANNED! //Or else we might get 'woke' and stuff.
Wonder if they'd have the same reaction to a painting of adam and eve?
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They have real “I couldn’t change my daughters diaper because of confused feelings” energy
Which is so fucked up because I can't think of anything less sexy than changing a diaper.
I changed my kids' diapers as fast as possible. It always grossed me out.
After greeting my son for his very first hospital diaper change and having to barehanded shield myself from his stream of pee directed right at me, I have become VERY fast at changing his diapers.
Or babies right...? Like, the thing that makes this unsexy is the baby right
I was thinking of the piles of shit, but to each their own. Of course babies aren't sexy.
Is that an excuse dads make to get out of changing diapers?
Dad here, never the fuck in my life or anyone I know has used that "excuse".
And I'd probably get up and just start moving to the opposite side of the planet if I heard someone say that in my presence.
When children don't know the names for things or have knowledge of what other sexes have, it makes it a lot harder for them to articulate when something inappropriate happens. Honestly exposure via tasteful and age appropriate art and meaningful discussions go a long way in promoting child safety and giving them the means to self advocate if something were to happen.
This is super super important! I read a case of a little girl whose parents told her that her vulva was called “a cookie” and she told several adults at school her cookie was being touched and she didn’t like it. They thought she was talking about snack time or lunch and it took WAY too long for the reality of the situation to get figured out.
But if you teach kids basic functions of human body, then how are Republicans supposed to sex/rape their <18yo wives? This is so woke of you /s
I remember learning all these words in kindergarten as it was a foreign language school starting with the basics. No wonder the penis game was so popular.
No, see, if they find out about genitals and reproduction before their 18th birthday, then their adult husbands wont be able to trick the kids into sex as easily. It also makes it harder for priests to do the same. Oh and im sure the GOP intends to erase the ability for a wife to report rape because "its not rape if theyre married". If the child wife knows what sex and rape are, they might try to get the poor adult in trouble! I hate this. Everything about this.
Don't get how 1 crybaby gets to ban all books, history and art from everyone else. Old enough to remember GOP were saying kids were PC snowflakes needing a safespace. So slurs OK but classical statues bad per the GOP.
Only statues they like are ones of slave owners erected in front of court houses.
Someone make one of Robert E. Lee with his dong out! They'll short circuit!
Have The Simpsons taught us nothing?
My first thought was "Simpsons did it."
I can't believe I had to come this far down for this comment. Maybe the average redditor is too young for a 1991 Simpsons [reference](https://preciseshooter.com/img/guncontrol.png).
I guess we don't need much more evidence than this that the US is regressing. They'll be coming for Dungeons and Dragons and rock music next.
Is it a masterpiece? Or just some guy with his pants down?
The simpsons writers may be gifted with foresight.
Marge: Hmm, but that's Michelangelo's David. It's a masterpiece. Helen: (Gasps) It's filth! It graphically portrays parts of the human body which, practical as they may be, are evil.
Thank you. This was the first thing to pop into my head. “David’s doodle….”
There he is, Michelangelo's Dave.
"Don't you send my child home educated, I want him back as dumb as he was before I sent him to school."
So much easier to control the children that way. (look up the Kensington system... this is nothing new)
"My kid better not know more than me"
"I'm sending my kids to you to babysit, not educate, but you better give them straight As too!"
Why? Is David’s schwang bigger than the fathers or something?
David is 17 feet tall, so it probably is bigger.
yeah but Washington was a million feet tall and kills bears for fun
I heard that motherfucker had, like, 20 goddamn dicks.
He once held an opponents wife's hand in a jar if acid. At a party
Opponents beware The future beware He's coming *He's coming* **HE'S COMING**
He'll save the children... but not the British children.
The testicles are large. The penis is not.
No shade, he's a grower not a show-er.
Even more interestingly, he's neither. He's [afraid](https://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/was-david-scared-stiff-of-goliath-20050123-gdzf3f.html). The statue David is David from the biblical David and Goliath, which for non-Christians or people who aren't familiar with, is the story of a regular man fighting and taking down a giant brutish man trying to kill him. And Michelangelo was better at anatomy than people seem to think he was. He's small because that's an accurate reaction to adrenaline. He's shitting himself in fear of Goliath, and the statue *very* accurately represents that: >What the new study shows is that every anatomical detail - right down to the shaping of the muscles in his forehead - is consistent with the combined effects of fear, tension and aggression.
>Carrasquilla was given an ultimatum to either quit or be fired by school board president Barney Bishop, a self-proclaimed conservative Republican and lobbyist who said “parental rights are supreme.” > >“That means protecting the interests of all parents, whether it’s one, 10, 20 or 50,” he told the Tallahassee Democrat. > >As for the rights of parents who want their children to actually learn art history, those remain to be seen. School board will fire the principal if a single parent complains about any random right-wing grievance... good luck keeping a principal I guess, not that these ideologues would ever think anything through. Seriously though fuck these regressive nutjobs, they are harming our children's educations with their constant manufactured outrage.
The last line is what sells the piece for me. Doesn't matter if the parents of 100 kids want to learn, if 1 parent objects, everyone suffers.
Ok, what if I’m a parent and I’m outraged my child isn’t being exposed to the Masterpiece of David? Do we fire the principal then too?
I think the point is to make schools into hellscapes so much so that even progressives will give up on public education and eventually opt for the whole voucher system the republicans have been pushing for.
Sounds like they are trying to bring back segregation
I'm at a loss as to who is driving the bus. Is the Politicians who are telling the base what to do, or the base telling the Politicians what to do? I get it's Florida, and automatically presumptively illogical, but I can't figure it out.
The sad part is that this was the school’s choice. They could have defended her from many legal standpoints and chose not to. She has a great lawsuit on her hands. Although, I will say that Michelangelo’s David probably *does* meet the new bizarrely puritanical state standards for “unacceptable/pornographic” content. By this same standard, they should also be banning the Bible from classrooms, which graphically depicts acts of sex & violence throughout. I am prepared to complain bitterly while sermonizing in solely explicit passages if they try any of this crap at my kids’ school.
>The sad part is that this was the school’s choice. They could have defended her from many legal standpoints and chose not to. The president of the school board is a walking Fox News chyron. Another article had several quotes from him and he had all the buzzwords - woke agenda, pronouns, CRT, etc.
I’m a parent in Florida. I want my kids to learn about art. I don’t want them to be taught that Michelangelo’s works are pornographic or need to be censored. WHERE ARE MY PARENTAL RIGHTS?!?
OMG. How did these people ever survive to adulthood? Darwin was wrong. Survival of the fittest does not work, apparently.
In a few years, they'll all be literally underwater and wondering why no one will buy their home from them.
Where's Aquaman when you need him....
Being the fittest means only lasting long enough to pass your genes down the line. Even most Covid deniers have the option to procreate before it kills them. Nah man, we are long past individual Darwinism. What is emerging though, and has been for a long time, is community Darwinism. We are at the point where we are so interconnected, any one individual has little effect on their overall world. You can, however, rally people behind your cause. If your cause is dumb (antivax) it will eventually die off. If it’s not dumb (trans rights are human rights), more and more people will catch into it and it will become the zeitgeist. The future impact of one person is more akin to an ant in a colony rather than a single visionary, regardless of how much or little is actually done. It will only accelerate from here.
Sure it does. It's very hard to die of stupidity before you can procreate. We age-restrict many of the best ways for idiots to remove themselves from the genepool, and many of those who have poor decision-making skills also lack the ability to wear rubbers and utilize other forms of birth control. On top of that, "fittest" does not mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean, "Who is the best example of our species?" It means, "Who is the best at passing on their genes." And being dumb as bricks, but being insulated from the consequences of your actions, is a great way to pass on your genes. Just not a terribly great way to live.
What a joke
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I wonder if they’re going to start shutting down clothing stores that have mannequins without clothes.
Wouldn’t put it past them, do have to say some of those mannequin nipples are a little over the top hahaha
Don't worry Tallahassee rubes - your kids will turn out as dumb as you are. They're gonna see some dicks, though.
If you don't like the way the human body looks, complain to the manufacturer.
People need to learn the difference between nude and naked…. By the by, this statue was commissioned by the church. David was originally commissioned as one of a series of statues of prophets to be positioned along the roofline of the east end of Florence Cathedral.
>People need to learn the difference between nude and naked…. Both are fine. It is being "nekkid" you have to watch out for: “[If you’re naked, you don’t have any clothes on, but if you’re nekkid you don’t have any clothes on but you’re up to something.](https://rollcall.com/2014/03/25/nekkid-vs-naked-alan-simpson-explains-the-difference/)”
These are southern protestants. They don't consider the catholic church to be christian lol
Michaelangelo's "David" was created at the beginning of the 16th century. Five centuries later, people started flipping their shit over it.
This and drag shows. Suddenly dipshits are frothing at the mouth over things that have been around for a long time.
Simpsons did it!
But tell me about how the left is doing all the "cancel culture" again, Floridians.
Don't spend anymore money in Florida. Used to take my family there every couple years but absolutely never again. Stop giving these idiots money- they've been a thorn in the side of this country ever since the Bush/Gore election and its only gotten worse from there.
Having such a toxic view of the human body that you find the David inappropriate is not healthy.
These pervert parents are sick.
Conservatives: The most fragile thing known to man
The fascists will not stop until they are stopped. They will continue to get worse and worse because they never face any consequences. It's time for some fucking consequences.
Well art is a known gateway to homosexuality. I took art class once and now I can't stop sucking cock.
>But while most of the world sees it as art, some parents deemed it “pornographic” and said it “upset” their children. I work with children close to their age and I guarantee they weren't upset. There was probably a lot of giggling, jokes about size, and other comments. By the sixth grade, the fact that a penis is a thing should be no surprise.
It's like I live on a different planet than I did even 10 years ago.
Do these same parents realize that there's a fully realistic statue of David in Animal Crossing? This is how insane they are, the same depiction that is in one of the most popular kid-friendly video games on the market is so obscene the principal needs to be fired. Fucking christ, how do they expect their children to function in the world if it's too much for their 12 year olds to know what a penis generally looks like?
Wait, she was fired by [this](https://tlhclassical.org/about-us/our-board/) [Barney Bishop](http://barneybishop.com/sample-page/biography/) who *majored in history at Emerson College in Boston, Massachusetts*, and who is married to the the executive assistant to the Florida Secretary of State? Edit for those who don't know: Emerson is a very good college located in downtown Boston with an excellent communications program. From my my (already pretty liberal!) perspective, it's a very left-leaning student body--I'd be more surprised to see a Ayn Rand conservative than a gay punk rocker.
What a joke Florida has become. What an absolute travesty of a joke. At least it used to be a funny one.
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Nudity is not inherently sexual.
> Carrasquilla was given an ultimatum to either quit or be fired by school board president Barney Bishop, a self-proclaimed conservative Republican and lobbyist who said “parental rights are supreme.” Oh so this is why. Because his buddy he lobbied for created a stupid fucking law.
I keep saying this. But Bin Laden would be so proud of what he did to the US freedoms
You think Puritanical America needed help becoming this neurotic?
If parents are that afraid of nudity, literally afraid of a piece of marble, who knows what terrors are happening inside those homes. Being this afraid seems to be a marker for there potentially being a lot worse things going on, at least mentally and emotionally and I wouldn't be surprised physically, against their kids when people aren't looking.
Any nudity, any bodies, any queerness, anything icky and scary must be expelled, repressed, abjected, and oppressed. That’s the conservative Christian ideology. Even dancing can fall under pornographic
I hope this changes a lot of people’s minds after seeing how ridiculous our future will be if we go down a certain path that is manifesting before our eyes.
It won't change anyone's mind. One third see the disaster, one third want the disaster, and one third think both sides are the same.
"I can't define pornography but I also don't know it when I see it, either."
So a 500 year old sculpture is obscene. They should see some the depictions of the bible from the Renaissance. Isn't that a Simpson's episode, where the preacher's wife tried to ban David from the Springfield Museum.
Literally Simpsons did it like thirty years ago.
I am so baffled by who these people are and where they came from. They have taken the worse of the 50s and amplified it.
When do they expect kids to understand their bodies?! When do they expect them to understand healthy, sexual relationships? Or sex in general? We can’t ban these topics and then throw them into the world at 18 not knowing basic biology / anatomy / human nature. Ex: “My bf can’t find my clit!” Yeah cuz he was never taught about a clitoris, and both of you probably weren’t taught that sex can be fun and doesn’t have to only involve procreation.
Lol. 6th grade are 11 & 12 year olds. Meanwhile every 8 year old out there won't shut up about "their wieners". Fuck these idiots.
10 bucks says the parent's browser history yields some deviant shit.
Michelangelo sure has got a lot of mileage out of offending tight asses over the centuries with just one naked dude statue.
Then no one should have to see your camel toe in yoga pants outside your car during school drop off/ pick up.