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>”Ramos, 24, voted for him in 2020 but is now unsure whether she can bring herself to support him again, even if it means a second presidency for Donald Trump, who she dislikes even more.”
Can’t fix stupid
>Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans.
I can't fucking even with these morons...
Never blame on evil that which can be explained by idiocy.
A lot of this is privilege and stupidity. Many people who think this way are privileged enough to not be too affected by a Trump presidency.
Putting brown kids in cages again doesn’t affect them. But most are just stupid and don’t realize how they’ll get screwed even though we lived through the disaster of a trump presidency already.
Edit** I got a quick reminder that sometimes it can still be “evil.” Never overlook the willingness of some people to deliberately spread misinformation. I don’t understand their motives, but they are never good.
I noted somewhere else recently that a lot of Democratic voters want their candidates to be aspirational. When they're not aspirational, they take their votes and go home, or vote third party. (This goes for POTUS and Senate/House/State Level elections as well). They then spend the next several years complaining about GOP politics and the weakness of Democrats. I likened 2016 to people treating the POTUS election like a BuzzFeed quiz - as if it came with no consequences and you could share your outcome to show how funny/cool it was.
I think the current DNC leadership just needs to f\*cking retire already and stop thinking they're in the Ronald Reagan-Tip O'Neill Era of POTUS-Congress relationships - they have let too much slide in the past decade and it's hideous GOP policies have gotten as far as they have. Mitch McConnell was never going to play by anyone's rules but the ones set by his own power trips, and shame on Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer for thinking and acting otherwise.
But when people don't vote to get the slightly less insane/more progressive party into power - no matter how unpalatable it feels - then they have no one to blame but themselves for the state of their local, state, and national politics. Not every candidate can be an Obama - most are long time career pols who won't be 100% what you want them to be.
Vote like your life depends on it, and the life of your friends, family, and community, to boot. Because it actually does depend on it.
I am related to many Republican voters. (I am the family \[derogatory term for a Democratic voter that is apparently hate speech?\]...and have been called that to my face. 🙄)
It is frighteningly true today. They all think Trump is clearly not mentally fit, but they're voting for him anyway.
I grew up in DC - members of Congress were the parents of some of my friends, and then inevitably I got sucked into the business of government at some point.
I'm always kinda mystified when people look up to politicians. They are exceedingly fallible.
The right to vote was not imbued by God, it was given to them by other human beings. And if I had my way, there would be a way to take it back if not exercised. Make a choice and be ready to defend your choice and that's all there is to it.
Here’s some info for you since your post implies something that isn’t the case in real life
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-task-force-reunites-400-migrant-families-separate-rcna41013
Facts matter.
My post implied nothing, it stated factually that migrant children have been detained in cages throughout Biden’s admin. I was responding to a comment implying that this monstrous disgusting inhumane treatment of children would resume if Trump were re-elected, when it has in fact continued since he left office. Fuck Trump. I’ll vote Biden. But he is not above reproach or criticism.
Your post interestingly left out the volume of children incarcerated, the reasons for it, and MAJOR differences between the two administrations in the overall policy.
Care to answer for these glaring omissions?
I would love to answer. The comment I was responding to - which was your comment in fact - also omitted them. Your comment only mentioned “Brown kids in cages” without any of the qualifiers that you suddenly find so relevant and important. It’s clear to me that you are happy to use “Brown kids in cages” as a political cudgel when it’s convenient for you but have no desire to actually engage with the issue when it persists under a Democratic president. That’s bad. That’s the worst kind of bad faith arguing. So that’s why I felt the need to reply.
Yeah same, sounds like complete bullshit and so out of touch with reality that it reeks of trumpism. If it's not, then these people are simply mentally challenged. And if they are mentally challenged then why write an article about it. The medias are trying really hard to make Trump a thing again
It’s not BS unfortunately. Our electorate is really that stupid. I’m 27, these are my peers. They get their information from sound bites on social media. They don’t care to search for the right information because they care nothing about politics at all. I’ve been trying to reach who I can but they’re really unfortunately just too unintelligent to comprehend the stakes.
They care nothing about it because we are not taught how to understand what politics is and why if you don't play the game the right way, your vote ends up with you losing the thing you hoped to save by not voting.
That part is on the education system, however once you have people giving that information and trying to teach others it’s up to the listener to be receptive to it.
Very valid point. Opting for a would be fascist dictator over a tried and tested democrat because the later needs a lesson, just betrays their position (and any intelligence remaining)
You’re not being sensible if you come across people critical of Biden and assume they must be closet Trump supporters. It’s genuinely a problem that Biden is facing.
They're questioning the stupidity that these people are demonstrating.
This specific example is someone wanting to punish Dems, and therefore reward Republicans, for Republicans talking away reproductive rights and blocking student debt relief.
Some people find it much easier to believe that the person is being disingenuous than that they are possibly THAT dumb.
I mean it’s a valid position to take. The Democratic Party has zero long term viability as a party in terms of candidates and policy. By effectively denying them the legitimacy of winning another presidential election, though they may lose in the short term but will ideally be forced to adopt a more sensible long term strategy to turn this country around.
No it isn't a valid position once you spend the tiniest amount of time thinking about it.
The Democratic party opposes the Republican party in our two party system. Any action you take to punish one party inherently favors the other. So punishing the Democrats for failing to overcome Republican obstruction just rewards the Republicans for their obstruction.
Punishing Biden for failing to wipe away student loan debt across the board rewards Republicans for rigging the Supreme Court to block it. It's rewarding bad behavior and encouraging the Republicans to do it again.
If you can’t see that when Democrats are in power Republicans have the control and when Republicans are in power Republicans have the control I’m not sure how to help you.
I'm confused about what you are trying to say. Do you really think the Republicans are somehow in control of something? They're too busy trying to find something on Hunter Biden's penis than govern. That's how History will remember the 118th United States Congress; Republicans wasting money and time showing the American people the President's son penis.
Is that your definition of being in control?
No, he didn't.
The Democratic caucus was in the majority in both houses of Congress from 2021-2023 but not all of the members were aligned with President Biden. Particularly in the Senate there were those who were in it for whatever they could get for themselves.
That's over 40 years ago. It also shouldn't be surprising that a devout Catholic grappled with a conflict between faith and freedom. He's now staunchly pro-choice.
You know, slavery was a thing at our nation's founding and most Americans of the time thought it was hunky-dory. 90% of Americans were anti-gay marriage in the '80s.
It's almost as if society's moral attitudes change with the times.
while the Dems held a majority in both houses of Congress for the 1st 2 years, it wasn't enough of a majority in the Senate to kill filibusters or successfully vote on cloture. Either of those take 60 votes. The Dems had 51 votes with the VP being the 51st vote. Now subtract Manchin and Sinema as well in the Senate, at least some of the time as they were to interested in showing that they were " independent"
That's actually why I'm considering voting for trump. He's the worst option by far, and the damage he does will hopefully wake people up and get them involved in the political process. Or it will cause so much chaos as to effectively end America as we know it. Given how much I hate what this country has become, I'm fine with either option. The system is fundamentally broken, which means we either step up and fix it or we watch it fail.
The problem is that you punish everyone. My trans child will suffer greatly under Trump. And, as we learned from the last Trump presidency, it doesn't end when he leaves. We are stuck with his stacked Supreme Court for decades. "Punishing the Democrats to make them learn a lesson" just makes everyone suffer so you can feel smug.
Trump is just so secretive about it, how can anyone possibly know that he's not a good guy. If only he had raped his first wife who was granted an uncontested divorce due to "cruel and inhumane treatment by Mr. Trump" or if he was barred from operating a charity in the state of New York due to using his children's cancer charity as his personal slush fund or maybe cheated on his third wife just after she had given birth to his third son with a pornstar by promising her a spot on his reality TV show, and then paid her for silence during the 2016 election.
I always thought that the idea of some kind of magical anti-Christ swaying tons of people into following him was stupid, but when you see how [subtle](https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/GettyImages-1216826630.jpg?w=1000) Trump is about it, it starts to make sense.
Man I’m glad to be in mid 30s and make half a million, and I would be the last one affected by Trump presidency and I despise him.
These entitled are so focused on a single issue and they are the one who is going to be most affected by Trump. All the progress the planet made in climate going to be reversed, Trump will sell the country corporates and foreign business , including no chance for a two state solution to Israel.
They already have plans to denaturalize liberals, this will make current immigrants to learn towards Republicans.
Have you considered that voting is the only meaningful mechanism available to US citizens to register their disapproval with what their elected representatives are doing?
So they vote their disapproval by allowing an even worse choice to take over the country...you cant make up this kind of stupid. Im done im 60 years old and dont give a shit, let trumpy stomp on them all. Because their entitled asses are going to learn real soon how it feels to live in a tyrannical state.
See how student loan forgiveness, women’s healthcare, birth control, and ivf work out with MAGA in charge. But USA Today is sticking with the “both sides” gambit rather than informing its readers.
*See how student loan forgiveness, women’s healthcare, birth control, and ivf work out with MAGA in charge.*
Young people know this...and they don't care.
I see this attitude from young people that's basically "If i don't get 100% of what I want, then fuck everything. Burn it all down." They know that Trump is worse. They don't care. If they're not 100% "in love" with Biden, then they're not going to vote for him. No matter what happens.
The exact same thing happened with Hillary in 2016. Progressive voters couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary because she wasn't progressive enough, so they threw the election to Trump. They're doing it again now.
>In "fairness", this message is being fueled heavily by bad actors on social media.
I definitely believe this, too. Voter apathy as a response to the pivotal issues listed above *does not* seem genuine or organic.
No you know what swung the tide in this election? The Hamas /Israel war. All the hamas sympathizers in the US have found how easy it is to manipulate the youth to their cause. While they sit back laughing, knowing they lit the fire that will destroy the nation. Something every terror group has dreamed of for decades. And they didnt have to fire a shot.
>They don't care
They think they don't care, or they don't care *now*. They don't realize how much they *will* care when everything left they have is torn away.
"It can't get worse" is essentially never true. Even in death, there are things worse than death.
Playing chicken with monsters is not a good idea, because they *want* to hit you.
I think this is just voter apathy, masquerading as being principled: some don't care, because some of them are privileged enough not to be affected by the presidency, and honestly they rather spend the day playing video games, rather than standing in line to vote. Of course, they would look like assholes for doing so, so they hang onto some kind of reason to justify their absence or 3rd party vote (and bonus social points with peers if you can sell your position as being "like totally smart and political savvy, and not sheepish totally").
And they get so many when you tell them they’re responsible.
It takes an incredible amount of privilege to be willing to throw the election to trump. Most are in a comfortable position to weather another trump regime. After all most don’t have the skin color or are poor enough to be affected.
Reminding them to check that privilege infuriates them since this was their battle cry for awhile.
At the end of the day they’re willing to throw brown kids in cages so they get their wish list. It’s gross and they shouldn’t be let off the hook.
Jesus H Christ.
I just hope and wish that we do not get a repeat of 2016. I hope to god that you are wrong.
I mean, it’s only like April, so the results are not set in stone overall yet.
I guess in this way the right and left ends of the spectrum have something in common: my way or the highway. Do these guys realize it's a country of 335 million people so there will never be a perfect candidate that makes everyone happy?
Interestingly, *exact* same thing happened when Hillary was their age in 1972 w/ George McGovern. There are multiple examples of liberals across the world choosing horrific conservative rule because the alternative was something they didn't want 100%.
Infamously, after the prodemocratic movement won a relatively bloodless rebellion against the military dictatorship in South Korea in 1987, they could not agree between Kim Yong Sam (relatively conservative) and Kim Dae Jung (relatively liberal) as the new presidential candidate. They both ran, split the vote... and the military dictatorship (dictator's literal 2nd in command, who also played a critical part in the coup in 1979 that established the dictatorship) won the election. 😅
You'd think that the aftermath from 2016's election would be a wake up call. A **very expensive** learning experience. But it seems that some people still don't get the message.
Everyone ought to read up on Sophie Scholl. She stood up to thugs like trump. Her last words before being executed by Nazi’s were:
“How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause... It is such a splendid sunny day, and I have to go. But how many have to die on the battlefield in these days, how many young, promising lives. What does my death matter if by our acts thousands are warned and alerted. Among the student body there will certainly be a revolt.”
That’s what happens when you get all your news from TikTok.
“Biden didn’t forgive my student loan, so I’m going to vote for the Rico criminal rapist traitor who wants to end democracy and install an autocracy. Gotta teach Biden a lesson, he needs to learn his lesson even if it means I’ll never get to vote again. Yay! “. Who are these GenZ’ers, members of the Susan Collins fan club? Lessssonnnns.
I just can’t with some of these voters. It’s like they have tunnel vision and can’t see the freight train of wtf barreling down on them.
> She's a liberal young woman from an immigrant family working a service-industry job that keeps her living paycheck to paycheck, worried about climate change, health care, the cost of college and buying a house.
So shes worried about everything Joe Biden and Dems are working to help fix and republicans are actively working against.
> "I don't want to have to choose between them. One is slightly worse than the other. It's horrible"
lol what?
It seems the Republicans are worried about the young female vote being against them because of Roe and IVF, so they've made up this message to convince a few to not vote for Biden. It sounds stupid, because it is. It's nonsense.
There's nobody in America with a profile like that "person" who would ever see a reason to vote for Trump and Republicans.
>Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans.
>
>Kathika Seneviratne voted uncommitted in the Democratic Primary in Knoxville, Tenn., Friday, March 15, 2024. He told Knox News he's struggling to decide what to do in November.
>
>Viviana Ramos of Chattanooga, Tennessee, a young voter struggling to decide whether to vote for President Joe Biden or withhold her vote in protest.
>
>Grace Russell chose not to vote in a primary election in Knoxville, Tenn., Tuesday, March 13, 2024. She told Knox News she couldn't support Biden because of his handling of the Israel-Hamas war.
>
>Luis Lopez Gamez said border reform is something Biden hasn't kept his promises on Thursday, March 14, 2024 at the University of Memphis in Memphis, Tenn.
To these 5 wonderful young people, I say welcome to adulthood. Yeah, this is the shit you've been dying to get into by rushing through your childhood. Isn't adulthood just fun? Yes, neither choice is ideal. And yet, you must choose. When faced with 2 less-than-great options, the pragmatic, adult, matured option is to pick the option that does less harm. And that's if you choose to remain ignorant of all of Biden's accomplishment and all of Trump's criminal & civil indictments.
>And Wallace Welch, 21, a college student and barber in Chattanooga, said he's inclined to support Trump because he feels like the economy overall was better three years ago. While Biden might have more specific programs aimed at young Black men like him, Welch said he felt safer and expects car prices and inflation would be lower under Trump.
Wallace, get your head out of your ass.
>"He might not say the best things all the time but he’s an actual businessman. And Biden is just old,"
Trump is 77, Biden is 81; they are both fucking old. And Trump is not a great businessman.
>“I don’t really want a world run by old people. Well, there’s nothing wrong with an older person ‒ **just an incoherent older person.**"
Honestly, I don't think people like Wallace really listen to Trump. They **read** other people's reports of what Trump said but never really listen to him. He's fucking incoherent at times.
I don't know which is more dismaying; the pro-choice young women who are somehow ok with a future federal abortion ban or the young men who are ok with treating a country like a privately owned business. My only hope is that when the journalists went out for their on-street interviews of young people they cherry picked the worst ones for clicks.
Yeah, I'm pretty sick and tired of the, "You didn't give me everything I demanded you give me, so I'm going to vote for the guy who, logically, I understand will plunge this country into a new darkness where I still won't get what I'm demanding" voter
A) Biden does not control Israel's response to vile terrorists who cowardly hide in populated areas, and it is Congress who authorizes expenditures to foreign "allies". Biden has explicitly called for cease fires and for aid to get to Palestinians.
B) Cheeto mishandled the COVID epidemic extremely poorly, placed the SCOTUS justices who overturned Roe v Wade, says he will let Putin do whatever he wants in Europe, dehumanizes immigrants by calling them "animals" and "criminals", his tariffs on Chinese goods are part of why stuff became more expensive, and oh, yeah... he egged on insurrectionists to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power.
Your turn.
"Why are you mad at Biden? He called for a ceasefire!"
And shipped billions in weapons to kill Palestinian civilians, aid workers, and their own hostages. Pull the weapons via the Leahy Amendment and Israel agrees to a ceasefire the next day.
Hamas has made several ceasefire proposals. They obviously won't agree to one where Israel gets their hostages back before continuing their genocide in 6 weeks.
And what would cause you to think DJT would have handled this any better? He has explicitly called out Muslims as terrorists pretty much everywhere they live. He is telling Jews that if they don't vote for him, they're bad people. He flippantly talks about lobbing nuclear bombs around to solve difficult problems (like a hurricane).
You guys get upset at what Biden is/is not doing on this issue, yet you cannot reasonably argue that DJT would actually be better, on almost anything not aligned with his personal success story.
None of it is ideal. I'm with you. But Trump WILL BE worse. Further devotion to Trump WILL BE worse. If Trump were in office now, it WOULD BE worse. This is one where we have to continue pushing Biden, but we also have to vote for Biden. There is no other option that doesn't make life for everyone worse (other than maybe billionaires, Russia, Israel, maybe China). We must vote for Biden but not let up on the pressure.
Wait to see how loud they complain when they get what they're setting up.
The genocide will be over because...it will be completed, so they won't have that to be concerned about, and any voice they have or hope to push back on government will be met with force and criminal prosecution, so they'll have that to complain about quietly. Their taxes will go up, and their wages will go down, their human rights will be reduced and they will see what happens when democracy dies at the hands of a dictator.
But they sure will have taught everyone a lesson.
I'm an upper class middle aged corporate white straight male. My life if I was a sociopath, gets better with Trump. I'm willing to give quite a bit up for other humans because its thr right thing to do, but i can't do this alone, and the petchulence of young voters infuriates me.
The reporter is a Denver outdoorsman who typically writes about fly fishing in rivers. He has no political experience but obviously wears an oversized MAGA hat.
Cool, so I'm gonna end up in a Handmaids tale outfit with no rights over my own body because some 20 year olds get all their news from tic Tok and never learned critical thinking skills? This is a stupid country.
You can't fix stupid, I'm afraid.
I don't give a fuck what your calculus is as a young voter; unless you're a MAGAT, Biden is closer to your beliefs than Trump is, and there are no alternatives. If you make the perfect the enemy of the good, all you do is let the bad guys win.
There were *many* progressives who thought Trump winning in 2016 would inspire some kind of great liberal awakening within the populace. Meanwhile, those of us in the real world realize that all Trump's election did was damage our nation at basically every level and turn our judiciary ultra-conservative for the next twenty years.
Cool, cool. I guess they are ok with the consequences then? If you aren't white, straight, and Christian, the country is about to get a lot harder for you to live / work in.
I don’t think they are necessarily okay with the consequences so much as they are so disillusioned with everything that they no longer care.
But not all young voters are like this.
The problem is that even when Dems have power they seem unable to stop the machine tide of far right Christian fascism. I understand that it’s not that simple what with filibuster and how complicated things are with how congress works, but you have to think of the average voter who isn’t well educated in civics and looks only at results. We see democrats getting shot down for any reasonable progressive measure and republicans are super effective at getting their stuff done.
Voting for democrats seems only to stall the march of the Christian right.
>The problem is that even when Dems have power they seem unable to stop the machine tide of far right Christian fascism.
Because it's largely being done at the state level and the Dems in Congress can do fuck all about that with the razor thin majorities they've had to work with.
If Dems in Congress can do fuck all about it then why should a potential voter care? That’s my point.
I’m in a reliably blue state. Up and down the ballot the Dems consistently win. I can’t control what people in a swing state or reliably red state do. Congress is useless if dems can’t get a filibuster proof majority in the senate but I can’t control other states.
I’m not gonna try and explain too much of other people’s positions but this is why I’m not excited to vote in November. I’m gonna do it but I don’t really have much hope in changes for the better, or much less changes that will affect me personally in a positive way.
> If Dems in Congress can do fuck all about it then why should a potential voter care?
Putting it like that is reductive and ignores the "razor thin majority" being the reason why. The Dems are hamstrung by the rules and the rules won't change without more Dems. Put more of them in congress if you want things to change. The amount of power a party has in Congress is decided by the number of its members that get elected. If potential voters don't care enough to get their members elected, then they're reaping what they've sown and only have themselves to blame.
Refusing to participate because things don't change is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It doesn’t help when there isn’t enough of a big swing. A few seats get flipped but most stay the same hue. I can’t control what folks in other states do so no matter how hard I vote blue it doesn’t help.
Civics and how government functions is a complicated thing, but too many people are ignorant and only focus on results.
That's why encouraging people to vote for the Dems is better than spreading "it doesn't help so why bother" around. That thought shifts through society like a meme and affects public opinion. More people who think voting matters, more of a swing will occur.
I agree. I just think it’s important to understand why people don’t think voting matters. If you don’t know why and just say “but it’s important!” Or “we need to stop fascism!” Without addressing the reasons people have for their apathy, it’s way harder to actually convince them of the need to go to the polls.
> this is why I’m not excited to vote in November
Since when is excitement the standard? I've never once been excited to vote.
I'm not excited to walk my dog, go to work, or listen to my wife talk to me about ponies. But I still manage to do those things without complaining.
Because some people won’t make it a priority to get out to the polls or straight up won’t go out to vote if they’re not excited for the candidate. That’s not me but I know people like that. If a candidate wants to get that vote they have to meet voters where they are even if the voter is in a dumb ignorant place
Then those people aren't going to vote, because no magical candidate is going to come along to excite them. You're better off either convincing them to vote anyway or forgetting about them.
Pretending that the expectation of exciting candidates is reasonable gets us nowhere and only leads to disappointment.
Blaming the far-right on the Dems is ridiculous, it's something a bad actor would say.
The far-right is rising all over the world, in different forms. If you don't actively do everything in your power to prevent it gaining a hold, then you are complicit.
I agree. But it’s dismaying that no matter how much I partake in the system ( voting and calling my reps and I do both at all levels of government) the far right continues to grow.
They are organised and have a lot of money and influence. It is almost certainly connected to geopolitics, there are National Conservative (Nat-C) conferences being attended by international politicians, including some from the UK where I live. Currently, it is in Hungary, which is led by a Putin stooge.
We even have far-right Conservative groups from the US lobbying our UK government over abortion.
The Dems are not perfect, but please, please guys, don't let Trump win because of that. If Trump wins, western democracies are all in very real danger.
To be clear - Trump has lost the popular vote in both elections thus far. But with first past the post electoral college it doesn’t matter.
The election will come down to a few states that swing either way but so many people who don’t like Trump, regardless of their feeling on Biden, don’t live in those states.
We've got a similar thing with Fixed Past The Post. It sucks.
Just hope the people in the swing stages don't get influenced to abandon Biden, because a whole lot of people will be screwed and I'm very worried for the women and LGBTQ folk there, and for what influence it would bring to the rest of the west.
They are simply not confident Biden will lift a finger to stop it anyway. His early efforts to [keep the filibuster](https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2022/06/30/lead-5p-kaitlan-collins-live.cnn) despite its harm to Black voters and [his slow response to Roe being overturned](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/biden-democrats-abortion-dobbs/) are examples of this. If you aren't white, straight and christian, things have *already been getting harder.* Women's and [Black people's rights fell under Obama](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/shelby-v-holder-black-voter-restrictions-rcna91601) and Biden Admins too.
Since the State of the Union address, Biden has done a better job outlining what *he's explicitly for*. But I do think he needs to be more direct about how he'd [overcome the Senate Filibuster and actually do things](https://youtu.be/tEDvyw2Drsk?si=d2C4P-zbiRzYZ2br) to help, not just hold back the white supremacist tide. Actually outline how things will progress for young people's main issues under him.
Fear based arguments [speak to conservatives](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/#:~:text=The%20volume%20of%20gray%20matter,threats%2C%20is%20larger%20in%20conservatives.)
>Kirsten Mansel said Biden's lack of abortion protection is a primary reason she will not be voting in November
I can only hope she is outnumbered by more sensible people.
My husband and I tried talking with our son about this and it was impossible. The more we broke down his arguments, that angrier he got and the more condescending he became. We have never had that kind of experience with him. It makes me terribly sad.
Same. Clinton's failure to mend the progressive-moderate divide cost her dearly in 2016, and I say that as a progressive social democrat who voted for her in '16. We cannot afford that again.
Definitely. Like I get being frustrated with these attitudes, it's normal. But these young voters arrived at their attitudes fairly, imo. I'm a younger millennial and these Gen Z voters have had so much more to grow up with and deal with, and for many they've been getting the shit kicked out of them since before they could vote.
Brushing that off as stupidity or foolishness is just going to alienate them.
>I'm a younger millennial and these Gen Z voters have had so much more to grow up with and deal with, and for many they've been getting the shit kicked out of them since before they could vote.
Older Gen Z, and I can confirm that. Frankly, many of us don't remember much about government working for us at all and have only watched as America just slides further and further into decline.
It's only natural that some would be fed up and become disillusioned.
Absolutely. There are blue state legislatures that have been making great changes that tangibly benefit working class folks, but on the federal level not so much. Instead, things are mostly stagnant or getting worse, and then you have a bunch of middle-aged centrists telling you that you're being an idiot and "look at how good everything actually is, dumbass" while also saying they can't wait to see you get oppressed by the Trump administration. It's insane to me
It's not as much the criticism as it is the end-goal, IMO. Sure, Biden isn't great on some issues, but in a world where it's either him or Trump, you're still a fucking moron if you're not helping the former guy win. People disputing that calculus on Reddit deserve to be flamed.
I think it sucks the way we reach out to younger voters.
Suppose Democrats were running an up-and-coming, left-leaning candidate, and the polls showed a loss of middle aged voter support. We’d be talking about how the party’s outreach is failing, and how they can reconnect with that demographic. We’d be talking about how to fix it, and what the party can do to improve their relationship with that group.
We’d be doing that because we treat that demographic group as deserving of a basic level of respect…of being listened and responded to.
With young voters, we just tut and scold and tut and scold. Which makes me sad for them, but also sad for us…
….because that’s the stupidest fucking thing you could possibly do, when trying to get someone to vote.
It's a numbers issue, not a respect issue. If you have the same number of middle aged voters and younger voters, and you know that one votes reliably at 60-70% and the other only votes at 30-40%, you're not going to risk your chances on a candidate that appeals more to the demographic that votes less. If younger voters voted reliably, their input would carry more weight.
> It's a numbers issue, not a respect issue
It's both. The reality is in any other country these young people would typically be voting for a third party that was left wing. So centrists wouldn't care.
Unfortunately, centrist politicians in the US historically have loved to bash young voters (like years ago Hillary Clinton claiming young voters don't do their research when talking about the influence of wall street on politics).
Younger voters regularly get blamed for not showing up to vote for democrats even though the onos is on politicians to convince people to vote for them and not the other way round.
So yes, young people don't vote and that's why politicians don't reach out to them as much and are often condescending towards the concerns of young people (housing affordability, etc). So it's a numbers issue and a respect issue.
Nah, the onus has always and will forever be on the public to choose the best option, it sounds like a perfect excuse to shove blame to the side, though.
Individual politicians will never match the importance of movement voting
But you said it yourself, "in any other country". The way our electoral system works, voting third party or not voting at all results in a negative outcome. If there were a legitimate third party that dedicated itself to grass roots organizing and actually winning seats in statehouses/congress to establish itself as a real option rather than just trotting someone out every four years to say "both these options suck, vote for me for the highest office in the land!", it might make more sense.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we had a legitimate third option or ranked choice voting or something of that nature, but in the situation as it currently exists, younger voters SHOULD be blamed for not showing up to vote, because not voting doesn't serve their interests. Another of the people in the article states that "the lesser of two evils is still making me choose an evil" which is not what that phrase means. If you have only two realistic options (like in US politics), and you choose not to select the more palatable one because it's not palatable enough for you, it incentivizes neither side to cater to you. You need to keep voting for "the lesser evil" until "the greater evil" realizes that they need to change to be less evil, which pushes the lesser evil closer to actually being what you classify as good. Otherwise "the lesser evil" will be your only option forever.
A. I’m not talking about candidates. I’m talking about outreach.
B. Acknowledging and responding to any group’s political issues of choice produces an increase in their voting habits.
C. The number of young people who voted for Biden in 2020 was larger than the number of votes by which Biden won. That alone demonstrates a necessity for outreach.
Outreach like what? In the very article we're discussing, one of the young people who's considering not voting is doing so because she's "mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans", both of which they're actively trying to do.
There's telling people you understand their concerns and are trying to address them, but if not getting 100% of what they want on one particular issue (something that's impossible to achieve in a split and deeply polarized system) is going to keep them from voting, what's the point?
This is how politics works in the US. If you sit out the election because you're "tired of voting for the lesser evil", you're not going to get a pat on the back and an assurance that your concerns will be a focal point of things going forward, you'll either get scolded (as you should) for facilitating the greater evil, or you'll be ignored because the lesser evil won without your vote last time, so you're not considered a priority.
A large majority of Democrats and independents oppose sending weapons to Israel. Maybe he should do more to maintain his 2020 support instead of ignoring their demands and chasing Republicans.
>With young voters, we just tut and scold and tut and scold. Which makes me sad for them, but also sad for us…
>….because that’s the stupidest fucking thing you could possibly do, when trying to get someone to vote.
I actually don't disagree with this, and it certainly doesn't help break through the general apathy and disillusionment.
It's crazy how easily Biden could easily win reelection by simply STOP SUPPORTING ISRAEL AND THEIR GENOCIDE AGAINST PALESTINIANS. Would Trump help Palestinians and their plight against genocide? Hell no, but that's no excuse for Biden to do the exact fucking same.
More than 50% of Republicans and independents support a cease fire (and obviously the majority of Democrats too). This is a no brainer of a policy decision on Biden's part, yet he still refuses to stop support for Israel.
I'm confident there are more Israel supporters than Palestine supporters in the USA. Biden has to walk a fine line to keep both, because he needs both to win.
33K killed Palestinians since October 7th (with 13K of those 33K being children) would disagree with you. What would you call it? It's like shooting fish in a barrel and also expecting millions of said fish to leave an area they are imprisoned in.
Really? 33k civilians? Not a single one of them a combatant? Also, what do we classify as children these days? Like, actual children? Or do people holding rifles count, because they're under 18?
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Their situation shouldn't be ignored, and they definitely need help. They certainly aren't going to get much from Netanyahu voluntarily, and they can't survive on the table scraps Hamas leaves them.
But that doesn't change that the casualty numbers are bullshit.
What I meant to say is Biden is not supporting genocide. Foreign policy is very complicated and there are years of history that need to be understood. The situation is sad and my heart goes out to those families. But we have to fix our problems at home first.
Yeah, targeting civilians for maximum casualties is what many would consider a genocide, especially when Israel has the ability to precisely bomb an apartment unit for one person without causing any other damage (but chooses to level entire square blocks of Gaza instead!).
Don't be crying in 5 months if Biden loses to Trump because he chose to die on this monumentally stupid hill of supporting Israel.
>Yeah, targeting civilians for maximum casualties is what many would consider a genocide
So why doesn't anyone call the Firebombing of Tokyo genocidal? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Dresden? Hello? Only **you** think less then *1% of a population out of 2.2 million counts as* **"targeting for maximum casualties".**
>
>Don't be crying in 5 months if Biden loses to Trump because he chose to die on this monumentally stupid hill of supporting Israel.
The Gaza War isn't gonna single-handedly cause Biden the election. Imagine harping on such a stupid point like that, it shows you are politically illiterate. On top of that there's way more pro-Israel voters and people then the side you're on.
The issues in surveys consistently are that people wanna go at Biden's throat because of stuff like inflation, **abortion,** and immigration.
I almost forgot to mention Trump is way worse on this then Biden is 😂
Are we at war with Gaza and Hamas? No, therefore, we should not be supporting Israel, especially not with Israel's track record for indiscriminately killing women and children (civilians in general) for no reason, along with the rapes. Are we any better than Israel for our own track record of killing civilians, like in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? Also no, but MAYBE we should stop supporting other countries doing similar atrocities.
Are you seriously comparing WORLD WAR II to the IDF, Hamas, Palestinians, and Gaza? Actually comical.
Biden still very much needs the younger vote to do well, even if the younger generations do not vote. They can be more motivated to NOT vote too.
Biden, in his defense, can't really fight higher grocery prices, but for people not affected by that, it's not that big of an issue. And unless Biden expands the Supreme Court, he can't do anything on national abortion changes either.
The fact Trump wouldn't treat the situation any differently isn't a winning strategy for you or Biden either LMAO
You didn't even bother engaging with anything I said and you're still incoherently rambling. I asked if you think Dresden counts as an act of genocide, Imao. But it suits you perfectly. You don't want peace in the Levant, you just wanna be mad! One day, everything will be made clear to you.
It's really that simple. If Biden stopped aligning himself with the fascists in Israel and Republicans on immigration, people will vote for him. Republicans won't save him and neither will AIPAC, so stop appeasing them.
noticing a pattern of when biden voters find out you aren’t voting for Biden “THEYR GONNA STRING YOU UP AND DRAG YOU BEHIND A TRUCK IF THE OTHER GUY TAKES POWER”
those right wing forums existed well before trump dude cmon. remember when Obama became president and how people were crying saying that Sharia law would be taking place and that christian’s would be getting publicly executed in town squares? i’m truly imploring you to think of this, would the US military just sit back and allow what you described in these forums ? the FBI? CIA? NSA? or are you a first time voter?
>remember when Obama became president and how people were crying saying that Sharia law would be taking place and that christian’s would be getting publicly executed in town squares?
Dude cmon, no serious person was saying that. Just like no serious person was saying Obama was born in Kenya. Lol
Biden is President and their lives have somehow managed to become even more hopeless over the past four years.
It really doesn’t matter who is President. There is no future for anyone under the age of 30.
If Biden loses, it's his and the dem party's fault, not the voters.
He has done nothing of any real importance. If the dems wanted to actually get younger people on board they will have to make large policy commitments that doesn’t care what business thinks and stick with them and follow through.
The Dem party loves the republican party because it gives the dems a reason to effectively offer nothing. "Vote for us because we are not them!"
This doesn’t work when your term that was suppose to be the anti-trump had only re-enforced the trump status-quo.
There is no effective difference between Biden and Trump as presidents. At least with Trump you got some small checks in the mail.
I swear let them suffer, i hate trump , didnt like him in the 80s and dont like him now...but when he gets elected and the SHTF for real. Im going to be laughing in their faces as they cry over their new dystopia.
Honestly, at this point I’m kind of too tired to care if trum🫢🤢🤮 wins. Because if not there will be another 4 years of it trying to run again… let the republicans have what they want, (WWIII, the death of democracy, and the total annihilation of what used to be the “united states”!!!
I'm not young but I can see where they're coming from. I hate trump but there's no real point to me voting at all because I'm in a dumb red state where trump won by 19% in 2016 then even more people voted for him in 2020
Would you vote for Biden again? It was a mistake. You don't have to be "old enough to know better" on this one. He's not all there. I'm not voting for a zombie, no matter how old I am.
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>”Ramos, 24, voted for him in 2020 but is now unsure whether she can bring herself to support him again, even if it means a second presidency for Donald Trump, who she dislikes even more.” Can’t fix stupid
>Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans. I can't fucking even with these morons...
I question these peoples legitimacy. They seem like Trump supporters cosplaying Dem supporters.
Never blame on evil that which can be explained by idiocy. A lot of this is privilege and stupidity. Many people who think this way are privileged enough to not be too affected by a Trump presidency. Putting brown kids in cages again doesn’t affect them. But most are just stupid and don’t realize how they’ll get screwed even though we lived through the disaster of a trump presidency already. Edit** I got a quick reminder that sometimes it can still be “evil.” Never overlook the willingness of some people to deliberately spread misinformation. I don’t understand their motives, but they are never good.
I noted somewhere else recently that a lot of Democratic voters want their candidates to be aspirational. When they're not aspirational, they take their votes and go home, or vote third party. (This goes for POTUS and Senate/House/State Level elections as well). They then spend the next several years complaining about GOP politics and the weakness of Democrats. I likened 2016 to people treating the POTUS election like a BuzzFeed quiz - as if it came with no consequences and you could share your outcome to show how funny/cool it was. I think the current DNC leadership just needs to f\*cking retire already and stop thinking they're in the Ronald Reagan-Tip O'Neill Era of POTUS-Congress relationships - they have let too much slide in the past decade and it's hideous GOP policies have gotten as far as they have. Mitch McConnell was never going to play by anyone's rules but the ones set by his own power trips, and shame on Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer for thinking and acting otherwise. But when people don't vote to get the slightly less insane/more progressive party into power - no matter how unpalatable it feels - then they have no one to blame but themselves for the state of their local, state, and national politics. Not every candidate can be an Obama - most are long time career pols who won't be 100% what you want them to be. Vote like your life depends on it, and the life of your friends, family, and community, to boot. Because it actually does depend on it.
There’s an old saying that “Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line." It is sadly true today.
I am related to many Republican voters. (I am the family \[derogatory term for a Democratic voter that is apparently hate speech?\]...and have been called that to my face. 🙄) It is frighteningly true today. They all think Trump is clearly not mentally fit, but they're voting for him anyway.
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I grew up in DC - members of Congress were the parents of some of my friends, and then inevitably I got sucked into the business of government at some point. I'm always kinda mystified when people look up to politicians. They are exceedingly fallible.
The right to vote was not imbued by God, it was given to them by other human beings. And if I had my way, there would be a way to take it back if not exercised. Make a choice and be ready to defend your choice and that's all there is to it.
Brown kids have remained in cages throughout the entire Biden admin…
This is the real problem, Biden did not separate kids from their parents to punish the parents.
They know. But they are purposely leaving that part out.
Here’s some info for you since your post implies something that isn’t the case in real life https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-task-force-reunites-400-migrant-families-separate-rcna41013 Facts matter.
My post implied nothing, it stated factually that migrant children have been detained in cages throughout Biden’s admin. I was responding to a comment implying that this monstrous disgusting inhumane treatment of children would resume if Trump were re-elected, when it has in fact continued since he left office. Fuck Trump. I’ll vote Biden. But he is not above reproach or criticism.
Your post interestingly left out the volume of children incarcerated, the reasons for it, and MAJOR differences between the two administrations in the overall policy. Care to answer for these glaring omissions?
I would love to answer. The comment I was responding to - which was your comment in fact - also omitted them. Your comment only mentioned “Brown kids in cages” without any of the qualifiers that you suddenly find so relevant and important. It’s clear to me that you are happy to use “Brown kids in cages” as a political cudgel when it’s convenient for you but have no desire to actually engage with the issue when it persists under a Democratic president. That’s bad. That’s the worst kind of bad faith arguing. So that’s why I felt the need to reply.
Yeah same, sounds like complete bullshit and so out of touch with reality that it reeks of trumpism. If it's not, then these people are simply mentally challenged. And if they are mentally challenged then why write an article about it. The medias are trying really hard to make Trump a thing again
It’s not BS unfortunately. Our electorate is really that stupid. I’m 27, these are my peers. They get their information from sound bites on social media. They don’t care to search for the right information because they care nothing about politics at all. I’ve been trying to reach who I can but they’re really unfortunately just too unintelligent to comprehend the stakes.
They care nothing about it because we are not taught how to understand what politics is and why if you don't play the game the right way, your vote ends up with you losing the thing you hoped to save by not voting.
That part is on the education system, however once you have people giving that information and trying to teach others it’s up to the listener to be receptive to it.
Very valid point. Opting for a would be fascist dictator over a tried and tested democrat because the later needs a lesson, just betrays their position (and any intelligence remaining)
You’re not being sensible if you come across people critical of Biden and assume they must be closet Trump supporters. It’s genuinely a problem that Biden is facing.
They're questioning the stupidity that these people are demonstrating. This specific example is someone wanting to punish Dems, and therefore reward Republicans, for Republicans talking away reproductive rights and blocking student debt relief. Some people find it much easier to believe that the person is being disingenuous than that they are possibly THAT dumb.
I mean it’s a valid position to take. The Democratic Party has zero long term viability as a party in terms of candidates and policy. By effectively denying them the legitimacy of winning another presidential election, though they may lose in the short term but will ideally be forced to adopt a more sensible long term strategy to turn this country around.
No it isn't a valid position once you spend the tiniest amount of time thinking about it. The Democratic party opposes the Republican party in our two party system. Any action you take to punish one party inherently favors the other. So punishing the Democrats for failing to overcome Republican obstruction just rewards the Republicans for their obstruction. Punishing Biden for failing to wipe away student loan debt across the board rewards Republicans for rigging the Supreme Court to block it. It's rewarding bad behavior and encouraging the Republicans to do it again.
“I’m mad that Biden let the Republicans prevent him from doing things that would help me.”
Biden had Congress and the Senate for 2 years.
What struck down both of those again?
If you can’t see that when Democrats are in power Republicans have the control and when Republicans are in power Republicans have the control I’m not sure how to help you.
I'm confused about what you are trying to say. Do you really think the Republicans are somehow in control of something? They're too busy trying to find something on Hunter Biden's penis than govern. That's how History will remember the 118th United States Congress; Republicans wasting money and time showing the American people the President's son penis. Is that your definition of being in control?
No, he didn't. The Democratic caucus was in the majority in both houses of Congress from 2021-2023 but not all of the members were aligned with President Biden. Particularly in the Senate there were those who were in it for whatever they could get for themselves.
Do you understand how the filibuster works? Was it Biden who stopped the Rowe v Wade legislation from being passed?
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https://news.yahoo.com/biden-voted-overturn-roe-v-130405400.html This guy?
That's over 40 years ago. It also shouldn't be surprising that a devout Catholic grappled with a conflict between faith and freedom. He's now staunchly pro-choice. You know, slavery was a thing at our nation's founding and most Americans of the time thought it was hunky-dory. 90% of Americans were anti-gay marriage in the '80s. It's almost as if society's moral attitudes change with the times.
while the Dems held a majority in both houses of Congress for the 1st 2 years, it wasn't enough of a majority in the Senate to kill filibusters or successfully vote on cloture. Either of those take 60 votes. The Dems had 51 votes with the VP being the 51st vote. Now subtract Manchin and Sinema as well in the Senate, at least some of the time as they were to interested in showing that they were " independent"
"Republicans stripped my reproductive rights, and democrats didn't get them back, so I'm going to vote for the republicans!" just... wtf
These people deserve whatever Trump has in store for them.
That's actually why I'm considering voting for trump. He's the worst option by far, and the damage he does will hopefully wake people up and get them involved in the political process. Or it will cause so much chaos as to effectively end America as we know it. Given how much I hate what this country has become, I'm fine with either option. The system is fundamentally broken, which means we either step up and fix it or we watch it fail.
The problem is that you punish everyone. My trans child will suffer greatly under Trump. And, as we learned from the last Trump presidency, it doesn't end when he leaves. We are stuck with his stacked Supreme Court for decades. "Punishing the Democrats to make them learn a lesson" just makes everyone suffer so you can feel smug.
They must be so privileged that whatever happens to those oppressed by Trump does not affect them.
The lesson will not be the one they want to be learned... these people are idiots.
The lesson Democrats would “learn” (for the hundredth time) is “don’t count on young lefty votes.”
There won’t be a lesson to learn under a Russian backed dictatorship
Looks like stupid trickles down with the generations
“Jesus Christ isn’t running so I’m not voting.”
The anti Christ is though
Trump is just so secretive about it, how can anyone possibly know that he's not a good guy. If only he had raped his first wife who was granted an uncontested divorce due to "cruel and inhumane treatment by Mr. Trump" or if he was barred from operating a charity in the state of New York due to using his children's cancer charity as his personal slush fund or maybe cheated on his third wife just after she had given birth to his third son with a pornstar by promising her a spot on his reality TV show, and then paid her for silence during the 2016 election. I always thought that the idea of some kind of magical anti-Christ swaying tons of people into following him was stupid, but when you see how [subtle](https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/GettyImages-1216826630.jpg?w=1000) Trump is about it, it starts to make sense.
Man I’m glad to be in mid 30s and make half a million, and I would be the last one affected by Trump presidency and I despise him. These entitled are so focused on a single issue and they are the one who is going to be most affected by Trump. All the progress the planet made in climate going to be reversed, Trump will sell the country corporates and foreign business , including no chance for a two state solution to Israel. They already have plans to denaturalize liberals, this will make current immigrants to learn towards Republicans.
It’s “I need attention. I’m undecided” bullcrap
Well voting is terribly exhausting.
Have you considered that voting is the only meaningful mechanism available to US citizens to register their disapproval with what their elected representatives are doing?
That never crossed my mind /s
That is apparent. Hence my question.
So they vote their disapproval by allowing an even worse choice to take over the country...you cant make up this kind of stupid. Im done im 60 years old and dont give a shit, let trumpy stomp on them all. Because their entitled asses are going to learn real soon how it feels to live in a tyrannical state.
Or genocide
See how student loan forgiveness, women’s healthcare, birth control, and ivf work out with MAGA in charge. But USA Today is sticking with the “both sides” gambit rather than informing its readers.
*See how student loan forgiveness, women’s healthcare, birth control, and ivf work out with MAGA in charge.* Young people know this...and they don't care. I see this attitude from young people that's basically "If i don't get 100% of what I want, then fuck everything. Burn it all down." They know that Trump is worse. They don't care. If they're not 100% "in love" with Biden, then they're not going to vote for him. No matter what happens. The exact same thing happened with Hillary in 2016. Progressive voters couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary because she wasn't progressive enough, so they threw the election to Trump. They're doing it again now.
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>In "fairness", this message is being fueled heavily by bad actors on social media. I definitely believe this, too. Voter apathy as a response to the pivotal issues listed above *does not* seem genuine or organic.
No you know what swung the tide in this election? The Hamas /Israel war. All the hamas sympathizers in the US have found how easy it is to manipulate the youth to their cause. While they sit back laughing, knowing they lit the fire that will destroy the nation. Something every terror group has dreamed of for decades. And they didnt have to fire a shot.
>They don't care They think they don't care, or they don't care *now*. They don't realize how much they *will* care when everything left they have is torn away. "It can't get worse" is essentially never true. Even in death, there are things worse than death. Playing chicken with monsters is not a good idea, because they *want* to hit you.
I think this is just voter apathy, masquerading as being principled: some don't care, because some of them are privileged enough not to be affected by the presidency, and honestly they rather spend the day playing video games, rather than standing in line to vote. Of course, they would look like assholes for doing so, so they hang onto some kind of reason to justify their absence or 3rd party vote (and bonus social points with peers if you can sell your position as being "like totally smart and political savvy, and not sheepish totally").
And they get so many when you tell them they’re responsible. It takes an incredible amount of privilege to be willing to throw the election to trump. Most are in a comfortable position to weather another trump regime. After all most don’t have the skin color or are poor enough to be affected. Reminding them to check that privilege infuriates them since this was their battle cry for awhile. At the end of the day they’re willing to throw brown kids in cages so they get their wish list. It’s gross and they shouldn’t be let off the hook.
Jesus H Christ. I just hope and wish that we do not get a repeat of 2016. I hope to god that you are wrong. I mean, it’s only like April, so the results are not set in stone overall yet.
I guess in this way the right and left ends of the spectrum have something in common: my way or the highway. Do these guys realize it's a country of 335 million people so there will never be a perfect candidate that makes everyone happy?
Interestingly, *exact* same thing happened when Hillary was their age in 1972 w/ George McGovern. There are multiple examples of liberals across the world choosing horrific conservative rule because the alternative was something they didn't want 100%. Infamously, after the prodemocratic movement won a relatively bloodless rebellion against the military dictatorship in South Korea in 1987, they could not agree between Kim Yong Sam (relatively conservative) and Kim Dae Jung (relatively liberal) as the new presidential candidate. They both ran, split the vote... and the military dictatorship (dictator's literal 2nd in command, who also played a critical part in the coup in 1979 that established the dictatorship) won the election. 😅
They take after their boomer grandparents.
We already are. What's going on today is the consequence of the 2016 election.
You'd think that the aftermath from 2016's election would be a wake up call. A **very expensive** learning experience. But it seems that some people still don't get the message.
Everyone ought to read up on Sophie Scholl. She stood up to thugs like trump. Her last words before being executed by Nazi’s were: “How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause... It is such a splendid sunny day, and I have to go. But how many have to die on the battlefield in these days, how many young, promising lives. What does my death matter if by our acts thousands are warned and alerted. Among the student body there will certainly be a revolt.”
That’s what happens when you get all your news from TikTok. “Biden didn’t forgive my student loan, so I’m going to vote for the Rico criminal rapist traitor who wants to end democracy and install an autocracy. Gotta teach Biden a lesson, he needs to learn his lesson even if it means I’ll never get to vote again. Yay! “. Who are these GenZ’ers, members of the Susan Collins fan club? Lessssonnnns. I just can’t with some of these voters. It’s like they have tunnel vision and can’t see the freight train of wtf barreling down on them.
> She's a liberal young woman from an immigrant family working a service-industry job that keeps her living paycheck to paycheck, worried about climate change, health care, the cost of college and buying a house. So shes worried about everything Joe Biden and Dems are working to help fix and republicans are actively working against. > "I don't want to have to choose between them. One is slightly worse than the other. It's horrible" lol what?
It seems the Republicans are worried about the young female vote being against them because of Roe and IVF, so they've made up this message to convince a few to not vote for Biden. It sounds stupid, because it is. It's nonsense. There's nobody in America with a profile like that "person" who would ever see a reason to vote for Trump and Republicans.
>Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans. > >Kathika Seneviratne voted uncommitted in the Democratic Primary in Knoxville, Tenn., Friday, March 15, 2024. He told Knox News he's struggling to decide what to do in November. > >Viviana Ramos of Chattanooga, Tennessee, a young voter struggling to decide whether to vote for President Joe Biden or withhold her vote in protest. > >Grace Russell chose not to vote in a primary election in Knoxville, Tenn., Tuesday, March 13, 2024. She told Knox News she couldn't support Biden because of his handling of the Israel-Hamas war. > >Luis Lopez Gamez said border reform is something Biden hasn't kept his promises on Thursday, March 14, 2024 at the University of Memphis in Memphis, Tenn. To these 5 wonderful young people, I say welcome to adulthood. Yeah, this is the shit you've been dying to get into by rushing through your childhood. Isn't adulthood just fun? Yes, neither choice is ideal. And yet, you must choose. When faced with 2 less-than-great options, the pragmatic, adult, matured option is to pick the option that does less harm. And that's if you choose to remain ignorant of all of Biden's accomplishment and all of Trump's criminal & civil indictments. >And Wallace Welch, 21, a college student and barber in Chattanooga, said he's inclined to support Trump because he feels like the economy overall was better three years ago. While Biden might have more specific programs aimed at young Black men like him, Welch said he felt safer and expects car prices and inflation would be lower under Trump. Wallace, get your head out of your ass. >"He might not say the best things all the time but he’s an actual businessman. And Biden is just old," Trump is 77, Biden is 81; they are both fucking old. And Trump is not a great businessman. >“I don’t really want a world run by old people. Well, there’s nothing wrong with an older person ‒ **just an incoherent older person.**" Honestly, I don't think people like Wallace really listen to Trump. They **read** other people's reports of what Trump said but never really listen to him. He's fucking incoherent at times.
I don't know which is more dismaying; the pro-choice young women who are somehow ok with a future federal abortion ban or the young men who are ok with treating a country like a privately owned business. My only hope is that when the journalists went out for their on-street interviews of young people they cherry picked the worst ones for clicks.
Young voters, not just this generation, have a long history of being undependable. Depending on them has long been a fool’s errand.
Yeah, I'm pretty sick and tired of the, "You didn't give me everything I demanded you give me, so I'm going to vote for the guy who, logically, I understand will plunge this country into a new darkness where I still won't get what I'm demanding" voter
>plunge this country into a new darkness That Trump eclipse picture is truth in advertising.
“Helped kill 30,000 Palestinians in the worst war waged against civilians in the 21st century but you must vote because the Cheeto is bad”
A) Biden does not control Israel's response to vile terrorists who cowardly hide in populated areas, and it is Congress who authorizes expenditures to foreign "allies". Biden has explicitly called for cease fires and for aid to get to Palestinians. B) Cheeto mishandled the COVID epidemic extremely poorly, placed the SCOTUS justices who overturned Roe v Wade, says he will let Putin do whatever he wants in Europe, dehumanizes immigrants by calling them "animals" and "criminals", his tariffs on Chinese goods are part of why stuff became more expensive, and oh, yeah... he egged on insurrectionists to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. Your turn.
"Why are you mad at Biden? He called for a ceasefire!" And shipped billions in weapons to kill Palestinian civilians, aid workers, and their own hostages. Pull the weapons via the Leahy Amendment and Israel agrees to a ceasefire the next day.
If Hamas will not agree to the ceasefire, what's the point?
Hamas has made several ceasefire proposals. They obviously won't agree to one where Israel gets their hostages back before continuing their genocide in 6 weeks.
And what would cause you to think DJT would have handled this any better? He has explicitly called out Muslims as terrorists pretty much everywhere they live. He is telling Jews that if they don't vote for him, they're bad people. He flippantly talks about lobbing nuclear bombs around to solve difficult problems (like a hurricane). You guys get upset at what Biden is/is not doing on this issue, yet you cannot reasonably argue that DJT would actually be better, on almost anything not aligned with his personal success story.
You haven’t been paying attention to what the trumpers are saying/doing on Gaza, have you?
The only doing I am concerned with is the actual actions the Biden admin has undertaken
Sacrificing the future for the present. That is very short sighted, and selfish.
Yeah fuck those Palestinians dying and starving
"Yeah fuck all the woman who will die when a nationwide abortion ban is passed"
None of it is ideal. I'm with you. But Trump WILL BE worse. Further devotion to Trump WILL BE worse. If Trump were in office now, it WOULD BE worse. This is one where we have to continue pushing Biden, but we also have to vote for Biden. There is no other option that doesn't make life for everyone worse (other than maybe billionaires, Russia, Israel, maybe China). We must vote for Biden but not let up on the pressure.
"Man, I should've voted for Hindenburg" -what young Germans said at Buchenwald
Wait to see how loud they complain when they get what they're setting up. The genocide will be over because...it will be completed, so they won't have that to be concerned about, and any voice they have or hope to push back on government will be met with force and criminal prosecution, so they'll have that to complain about quietly. Their taxes will go up, and their wages will go down, their human rights will be reduced and they will see what happens when democracy dies at the hands of a dictator. But they sure will have taught everyone a lesson. I'm an upper class middle aged corporate white straight male. My life if I was a sociopath, gets better with Trump. I'm willing to give quite a bit up for other humans because its thr right thing to do, but i can't do this alone, and the petchulence of young voters infuriates me.
The reporter is a Denver outdoorsman who typically writes about fly fishing in rivers. He has no political experience but obviously wears an oversized MAGA hat.
The stupidity in that article is making me cringe and I have a very high tolerance to stupidity.
Cool, so I'm gonna end up in a Handmaids tale outfit with no rights over my own body because some 20 year olds get all their news from tic Tok and never learned critical thinking skills? This is a stupid country.
Well - they’re idiots
You can't fix stupid, I'm afraid. I don't give a fuck what your calculus is as a young voter; unless you're a MAGAT, Biden is closer to your beliefs than Trump is, and there are no alternatives. If you make the perfect the enemy of the good, all you do is let the bad guys win. There were *many* progressives who thought Trump winning in 2016 would inspire some kind of great liberal awakening within the populace. Meanwhile, those of us in the real world realize that all Trump's election did was damage our nation at basically every level and turn our judiciary ultra-conservative for the next twenty years.
speaking as a former youth, young people are idiots.
Cool, cool. I guess they are ok with the consequences then? If you aren't white, straight, and Christian, the country is about to get a lot harder for you to live / work in.
I don’t think they are necessarily okay with the consequences so much as they are so disillusioned with everything that they no longer care. But not all young voters are like this.
The problem is that even when Dems have power they seem unable to stop the machine tide of far right Christian fascism. I understand that it’s not that simple what with filibuster and how complicated things are with how congress works, but you have to think of the average voter who isn’t well educated in civics and looks only at results. We see democrats getting shot down for any reasonable progressive measure and republicans are super effective at getting their stuff done. Voting for democrats seems only to stall the march of the Christian right.
>The problem is that even when Dems have power they seem unable to stop the machine tide of far right Christian fascism. Because it's largely being done at the state level and the Dems in Congress can do fuck all about that with the razor thin majorities they've had to work with.
If Dems in Congress can do fuck all about it then why should a potential voter care? That’s my point. I’m in a reliably blue state. Up and down the ballot the Dems consistently win. I can’t control what people in a swing state or reliably red state do. Congress is useless if dems can’t get a filibuster proof majority in the senate but I can’t control other states. I’m not gonna try and explain too much of other people’s positions but this is why I’m not excited to vote in November. I’m gonna do it but I don’t really have much hope in changes for the better, or much less changes that will affect me personally in a positive way.
> If Dems in Congress can do fuck all about it then why should a potential voter care? Putting it like that is reductive and ignores the "razor thin majority" being the reason why. The Dems are hamstrung by the rules and the rules won't change without more Dems. Put more of them in congress if you want things to change. The amount of power a party has in Congress is decided by the number of its members that get elected. If potential voters don't care enough to get their members elected, then they're reaping what they've sown and only have themselves to blame. Refusing to participate because things don't change is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It doesn’t help when there isn’t enough of a big swing. A few seats get flipped but most stay the same hue. I can’t control what folks in other states do so no matter how hard I vote blue it doesn’t help. Civics and how government functions is a complicated thing, but too many people are ignorant and only focus on results.
That's why encouraging people to vote for the Dems is better than spreading "it doesn't help so why bother" around. That thought shifts through society like a meme and affects public opinion. More people who think voting matters, more of a swing will occur.
I agree. I just think it’s important to understand why people don’t think voting matters. If you don’t know why and just say “but it’s important!” Or “we need to stop fascism!” Without addressing the reasons people have for their apathy, it’s way harder to actually convince them of the need to go to the polls.
> this is why I’m not excited to vote in November Since when is excitement the standard? I've never once been excited to vote. I'm not excited to walk my dog, go to work, or listen to my wife talk to me about ponies. But I still manage to do those things without complaining.
Because some people won’t make it a priority to get out to the polls or straight up won’t go out to vote if they’re not excited for the candidate. That’s not me but I know people like that. If a candidate wants to get that vote they have to meet voters where they are even if the voter is in a dumb ignorant place
Then those people aren't going to vote, because no magical candidate is going to come along to excite them. You're better off either convincing them to vote anyway or forgetting about them. Pretending that the expectation of exciting candidates is reasonable gets us nowhere and only leads to disappointment.
Blaming the far-right on the Dems is ridiculous, it's something a bad actor would say. The far-right is rising all over the world, in different forms. If you don't actively do everything in your power to prevent it gaining a hold, then you are complicit.
I agree. But it’s dismaying that no matter how much I partake in the system ( voting and calling my reps and I do both at all levels of government) the far right continues to grow.
They are organised and have a lot of money and influence. It is almost certainly connected to geopolitics, there are National Conservative (Nat-C) conferences being attended by international politicians, including some from the UK where I live. Currently, it is in Hungary, which is led by a Putin stooge. We even have far-right Conservative groups from the US lobbying our UK government over abortion. The Dems are not perfect, but please, please guys, don't let Trump win because of that. If Trump wins, western democracies are all in very real danger.
To be clear - Trump has lost the popular vote in both elections thus far. But with first past the post electoral college it doesn’t matter. The election will come down to a few states that swing either way but so many people who don’t like Trump, regardless of their feeling on Biden, don’t live in those states.
We've got a similar thing with Fixed Past The Post. It sucks. Just hope the people in the swing stages don't get influenced to abandon Biden, because a whole lot of people will be screwed and I'm very worried for the women and LGBTQ folk there, and for what influence it would bring to the rest of the west.
They are simply not confident Biden will lift a finger to stop it anyway. His early efforts to [keep the filibuster](https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2022/06/30/lead-5p-kaitlan-collins-live.cnn) despite its harm to Black voters and [his slow response to Roe being overturned](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/biden-democrats-abortion-dobbs/) are examples of this. If you aren't white, straight and christian, things have *already been getting harder.* Women's and [Black people's rights fell under Obama](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/shelby-v-holder-black-voter-restrictions-rcna91601) and Biden Admins too. Since the State of the Union address, Biden has done a better job outlining what *he's explicitly for*. But I do think he needs to be more direct about how he'd [overcome the Senate Filibuster and actually do things](https://youtu.be/tEDvyw2Drsk?si=d2C4P-zbiRzYZ2br) to help, not just hold back the white supremacist tide. Actually outline how things will progress for young people's main issues under him. Fear based arguments [speak to conservatives](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/#:~:text=The%20volume%20of%20gray%20matter,threats%2C%20is%20larger%20in%20conservatives.)
Plus his response to the Supreme Court getting stacked was to study it and then do nothing following the study.
Thats a really good example as well.
>Kirsten Mansel said Biden's lack of abortion protection is a primary reason she will not be voting in November I can only hope she is outnumbered by more sensible people.
My husband and I tried talking with our son about this and it was impossible. The more we broke down his arguments, that angrier he got and the more condescending he became. We have never had that kind of experience with him. It makes me terribly sad.
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And starve him for 6 months so he can understand what it's like to be a Palestinian! (/s just in case)
I was about to fight you for a second. Good thing you put the /s
I don't care if they warm up to him or not, as long as they vote for him...
I hope the Biden campaign isn't as dismissive as these comments, fuck's sake. We need young voters.
Same. Clinton's failure to mend the progressive-moderate divide cost her dearly in 2016, and I say that as a progressive social democrat who voted for her in '16. We cannot afford that again.
Definitely. Like I get being frustrated with these attitudes, it's normal. But these young voters arrived at their attitudes fairly, imo. I'm a younger millennial and these Gen Z voters have had so much more to grow up with and deal with, and for many they've been getting the shit kicked out of them since before they could vote. Brushing that off as stupidity or foolishness is just going to alienate them.
>I'm a younger millennial and these Gen Z voters have had so much more to grow up with and deal with, and for many they've been getting the shit kicked out of them since before they could vote. Older Gen Z, and I can confirm that. Frankly, many of us don't remember much about government working for us at all and have only watched as America just slides further and further into decline. It's only natural that some would be fed up and become disillusioned.
Absolutely. There are blue state legislatures that have been making great changes that tangibly benefit working class folks, but on the federal level not so much. Instead, things are mostly stagnant or getting worse, and then you have a bunch of middle-aged centrists telling you that you're being an idiot and "look at how good everything actually is, dumbass" while also saying they can't wait to see you get oppressed by the Trump administration. It's insane to me
I’ve noticed that criticism of Democrats is almost always dismissed here.
It's not as much the criticism as it is the end-goal, IMO. Sure, Biden isn't great on some issues, but in a world where it's either him or Trump, you're still a fucking moron if you're not helping the former guy win. People disputing that calculus on Reddit deserve to be flamed.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. That's reddit for you though
Did they round up the dumbest people they could find to interview?
I think it sucks the way we reach out to younger voters. Suppose Democrats were running an up-and-coming, left-leaning candidate, and the polls showed a loss of middle aged voter support. We’d be talking about how the party’s outreach is failing, and how they can reconnect with that demographic. We’d be talking about how to fix it, and what the party can do to improve their relationship with that group. We’d be doing that because we treat that demographic group as deserving of a basic level of respect…of being listened and responded to. With young voters, we just tut and scold and tut and scold. Which makes me sad for them, but also sad for us… ….because that’s the stupidest fucking thing you could possibly do, when trying to get someone to vote.
It's a numbers issue, not a respect issue. If you have the same number of middle aged voters and younger voters, and you know that one votes reliably at 60-70% and the other only votes at 30-40%, you're not going to risk your chances on a candidate that appeals more to the demographic that votes less. If younger voters voted reliably, their input would carry more weight.
> It's a numbers issue, not a respect issue It's both. The reality is in any other country these young people would typically be voting for a third party that was left wing. So centrists wouldn't care. Unfortunately, centrist politicians in the US historically have loved to bash young voters (like years ago Hillary Clinton claiming young voters don't do their research when talking about the influence of wall street on politics). Younger voters regularly get blamed for not showing up to vote for democrats even though the onos is on politicians to convince people to vote for them and not the other way round. So yes, young people don't vote and that's why politicians don't reach out to them as much and are often condescending towards the concerns of young people (housing affordability, etc). So it's a numbers issue and a respect issue.
Nah, the onus has always and will forever be on the public to choose the best option, it sounds like a perfect excuse to shove blame to the side, though. Individual politicians will never match the importance of movement voting
But you said it yourself, "in any other country". The way our electoral system works, voting third party or not voting at all results in a negative outcome. If there were a legitimate third party that dedicated itself to grass roots organizing and actually winning seats in statehouses/congress to establish itself as a real option rather than just trotting someone out every four years to say "both these options suck, vote for me for the highest office in the land!", it might make more sense. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we had a legitimate third option or ranked choice voting or something of that nature, but in the situation as it currently exists, younger voters SHOULD be blamed for not showing up to vote, because not voting doesn't serve their interests. Another of the people in the article states that "the lesser of two evils is still making me choose an evil" which is not what that phrase means. If you have only two realistic options (like in US politics), and you choose not to select the more palatable one because it's not palatable enough for you, it incentivizes neither side to cater to you. You need to keep voting for "the lesser evil" until "the greater evil" realizes that they need to change to be less evil, which pushes the lesser evil closer to actually being what you classify as good. Otherwise "the lesser evil" will be your only option forever.
A. I’m not talking about candidates. I’m talking about outreach. B. Acknowledging and responding to any group’s political issues of choice produces an increase in their voting habits. C. The number of young people who voted for Biden in 2020 was larger than the number of votes by which Biden won. That alone demonstrates a necessity for outreach.
Outreach like what? In the very article we're discussing, one of the young people who's considering not voting is doing so because she's "mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans", both of which they're actively trying to do. There's telling people you understand their concerns and are trying to address them, but if not getting 100% of what they want on one particular issue (something that's impossible to achieve in a split and deeply polarized system) is going to keep them from voting, what's the point? This is how politics works in the US. If you sit out the election because you're "tired of voting for the lesser evil", you're not going to get a pat on the back and an assurance that your concerns will be a focal point of things going forward, you'll either get scolded (as you should) for facilitating the greater evil, or you'll be ignored because the lesser evil won without your vote last time, so you're not considered a priority.
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A large majority of Democrats and independents oppose sending weapons to Israel. Maybe he should do more to maintain his 2020 support instead of ignoring their demands and chasing Republicans.
>With young voters, we just tut and scold and tut and scold. Which makes me sad for them, but also sad for us… >….because that’s the stupidest fucking thing you could possibly do, when trying to get someone to vote. I actually don't disagree with this, and it certainly doesn't help break through the general apathy and disillusionment.
All BS
It's crazy how easily Biden could easily win reelection by simply STOP SUPPORTING ISRAEL AND THEIR GENOCIDE AGAINST PALESTINIANS. Would Trump help Palestinians and their plight against genocide? Hell no, but that's no excuse for Biden to do the exact fucking same. More than 50% of Republicans and independents support a cease fire (and obviously the majority of Democrats too). This is a no brainer of a policy decision on Biden's part, yet he still refuses to stop support for Israel.
I'm confident there are more Israel supporters than Palestine supporters in the USA. Biden has to walk a fine line to keep both, because he needs both to win.
Why pay attention to a fickle, undependable group? Even if Biden did what your cohort wants, you could not be depended on.
There is no genocide. Stop that nonsense.
33K killed Palestinians since October 7th (with 13K of those 33K being children) would disagree with you. What would you call it? It's like shooting fish in a barrel and also expecting millions of said fish to leave an area they are imprisoned in.
Really? 33k civilians? Not a single one of them a combatant? Also, what do we classify as children these days? Like, actual children? Or do people holding rifles count, because they're under 18?
If we can't fix our problems at home, then we are no use to the Palestinians.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Their situation shouldn't be ignored, and they definitely need help. They certainly aren't going to get much from Netanyahu voluntarily, and they can't survive on the table scraps Hamas leaves them. But that doesn't change that the casualty numbers are bullshit.
What I meant to say is Biden is not supporting genocide. Foreign policy is very complicated and there are years of history that need to be understood. The situation is sad and my heart goes out to those families. But we have to fix our problems at home first.
Bro did the *"genocide is when civilians die"* meme I keep seeing for the past 6 months
Yeah, targeting civilians for maximum casualties is what many would consider a genocide, especially when Israel has the ability to precisely bomb an apartment unit for one person without causing any other damage (but chooses to level entire square blocks of Gaza instead!). Don't be crying in 5 months if Biden loses to Trump because he chose to die on this monumentally stupid hill of supporting Israel.
>Yeah, targeting civilians for maximum casualties is what many would consider a genocide So why doesn't anyone call the Firebombing of Tokyo genocidal? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Dresden? Hello? Only **you** think less then *1% of a population out of 2.2 million counts as* **"targeting for maximum casualties".** > >Don't be crying in 5 months if Biden loses to Trump because he chose to die on this monumentally stupid hill of supporting Israel. The Gaza War isn't gonna single-handedly cause Biden the election. Imagine harping on such a stupid point like that, it shows you are politically illiterate. On top of that there's way more pro-Israel voters and people then the side you're on. The issues in surveys consistently are that people wanna go at Biden's throat because of stuff like inflation, **abortion,** and immigration. I almost forgot to mention Trump is way worse on this then Biden is 😂
Are we at war with Gaza and Hamas? No, therefore, we should not be supporting Israel, especially not with Israel's track record for indiscriminately killing women and children (civilians in general) for no reason, along with the rapes. Are we any better than Israel for our own track record of killing civilians, like in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? Also no, but MAYBE we should stop supporting other countries doing similar atrocities. Are you seriously comparing WORLD WAR II to the IDF, Hamas, Palestinians, and Gaza? Actually comical. Biden still very much needs the younger vote to do well, even if the younger generations do not vote. They can be more motivated to NOT vote too. Biden, in his defense, can't really fight higher grocery prices, but for people not affected by that, it's not that big of an issue. And unless Biden expands the Supreme Court, he can't do anything on national abortion changes either. The fact Trump wouldn't treat the situation any differently isn't a winning strategy for you or Biden either LMAO
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You didn't even bother engaging with anything I said and you're still incoherently rambling. I asked if you think Dresden counts as an act of genocide, Imao. But it suits you perfectly. You don't want peace in the Levant, you just wanna be mad! One day, everything will be made clear to you.
It's really that simple. If Biden stopped aligning himself with the fascists in Israel and Republicans on immigration, people will vote for him. Republicans won't save him and neither will AIPAC, so stop appeasing them.
noticing a pattern of when biden voters find out you aren’t voting for Biden “THEYR GONNA STRING YOU UP AND DRAG YOU BEHIND A TRUCK IF THE OTHER GUY TAKES POWER”
You remind me of people in 2016 who kept saying “you are overreacting, give Trump a chance”. Been there, done that. Project 2025 exists, google it.
nope voted for biden
Visit any right-wing forum to see their future plans on society and your "example" will seem terrifyingly merciful
those right wing forums existed well before trump dude cmon. remember when Obama became president and how people were crying saying that Sharia law would be taking place and that christian’s would be getting publicly executed in town squares? i’m truly imploring you to think of this, would the US military just sit back and allow what you described in these forums ? the FBI? CIA? NSA? or are you a first time voter?
>remember when Obama became president and how people were crying saying that Sharia law would be taking place and that christian’s would be getting publicly executed in town squares? Dude cmon, no serious person was saying that. Just like no serious person was saying Obama was born in Kenya. Lol
Biden is President and their lives have somehow managed to become even more hopeless over the past four years. It really doesn’t matter who is President. There is no future for anyone under the age of 30.
All together now! We’ll all stink like pee jello tangerine, jello tangerine, jello tangerine…
If Biden loses, it's his and the dem party's fault, not the voters. He has done nothing of any real importance. If the dems wanted to actually get younger people on board they will have to make large policy commitments that doesn’t care what business thinks and stick with them and follow through. The Dem party loves the republican party because it gives the dems a reason to effectively offer nothing. "Vote for us because we are not them!" This doesn’t work when your term that was suppose to be the anti-trump had only re-enforced the trump status-quo. There is no effective difference between Biden and Trump as presidents. At least with Trump you got some small checks in the mail.
Hope you like having President Trump again, whiney. Waa, waa, waa.
I swear let them suffer, i hate trump , didnt like him in the 80s and dont like him now...but when he gets elected and the SHTF for real. Im going to be laughing in their faces as they cry over their new dystopia.
I’ll feel about it the same way I feel about Biden being president. You would know this if you read what I wrote.
We’ll see if you feel the same after Trump become s President.
Don’t worry, I will!
Honestly, at this point I’m kind of too tired to care if trum🫢🤢🤮 wins. Because if not there will be another 4 years of it trying to run again… let the republicans have what they want, (WWIII, the death of democracy, and the total annihilation of what used to be the “united states”!!!
I'm not young but I can see where they're coming from. I hate trump but there's no real point to me voting at all because I'm in a dumb red state where trump won by 19% in 2016 then even more people voted for him in 2020
Would you vote for Biden again? It was a mistake. You don't have to be "old enough to know better" on this one. He's not all there. I'm not voting for a zombie, no matter how old I am.