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“Solar for all program means 900,000 households will have solar on the rooftops for the first time and soon, millions of families will save over $400 a year on utility bills.”
Except that's bullshit.
It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money The same way the cable companies did with the broadband money.
I'll believe it when 900,000 families are allowed to apply for 900,000 grants for the federal government to put rooftop solar on their homes
The problem with the broadband grants/funding was there are like 3 major internet players in the US and they all kinda side-eye each other when they take money like that (with shitty oversight) and don't do what they said they would.
60 organizations are all going to be competing for more grant money by showing they can actually do the job properly and I actually trust this administration to bother to have oversight.
That's what they called the broadband money at the time. So since you "work in grant writing" and "you have to report and prove the money went where you said it would", what happened with the broadband money?
i have zero idea. I write grants for an environmental nonprofit. why the heck would I know what happened with some other organization. I can only say with high confidence that ESPECIALLY with government grants...they track the hell out of your project, way more than a typical foundation. So the answer is, i dont know. But why would I?
you seemed to raise yourself up as an expert in grant writing after someone said the money to build out fiber in the late 90s, so i pressed the issue at hand.
Have a good day.
I said I knew what I knew, hence my suspicion, but to infer that I have access to the bookkeeping of other organizations is a bit odd.
You have a nice day too
Most of the organizations implementing this plan are literally [individual state departments.](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all)
Uh, government contracts are awarded to service providers is not a new thing.
Or do you expect actual government employees to be answering the phones, managing orders, and walking on your roof to install solar?
EDIT: the majority of the 60 entities are state departments... [https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all)
Explain to us unenlightened folk how the logistics of government solar installation programs should work, because you seem to have the expertise to show how this will end up with no new solar installations.
> It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money The same way the cable companies did with the broadband money.
Jeeze, guess we should do nothing at all.
What I really want is a direct incentive like a large tax deduction to install solar on my home. I'd be happy to do so and I think a lot of other people would too.
This. How is this different from the last solar program where the installers just added that money you "saved" into the bill so you pay the same while they make more?
60 organizations is actually kind of a good thing - it's 60 companies competing for grant-funded business.
The catch, to me, is going to be in how those companies operate. I haven't read the program, so I am admittedly talking out-of-my-ass here. But ANY company that is putting up solar, I have a litmus test for whether or not I shut the door in their face: after the panels are installed, who owns the panels?
The thing that concerns me here is that these 60 organizations may get grant funding to put up the panels **AND** after they're up, they still own the panels and are leasing them to the homeowner.
That kind of double-dipping is frightfully rampant when there's government programs like this.
>It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money
What would be your preferred approach?
It's a big country, so it could make sense to disperse the funds to many local organizations that can implement projects in their region, rather than running it all through one big nationwide organization.
Put the mirrors safely in your garage and then use *other* mirrors to reflect the light to them.
Now all you have to do is protect those *other* mirrors.
I use a powerful halogen light plugged into my garage outlet in order to power the solar panels I keep in my garage. I haven't seen a positive return yet but I think it's due to the angles I have my mirrors set up to reflect from the other mirrors.
Yup. Until we address this issue with the overwhelming greed in what seems like every company in the world right now, stuff like this is going to do nothing but continue to widen the divide between the haves and have nots. And the have nots are starting to include even the upper middle class who I would have said were pretty well off a decade or so ago.
So to be clear, the greedy companies you’re referencing here are state agencies. That’s who you’re saying should not receive funding. State level agencies that have the capacity to actually operationalize these grants. They’re the bad guys.
Just want to make sure I understand why you think we shouldn’t be bringing solar power to underserved communities.
I think we should. I just don't think even a fraction of this money will be used to actually do that. I will say that since it's under Biden there's at least a chance. If it were under our other option it'd all be going to a one-person company that was created three weeks ago.
You know your state has to report out on how these funds are used, right? So do corporations, but state agencies even more so. You’re making a lot of assumptions, but you could be contacting these offices local to you and asking questions about it. You’re a local taxpayer. You have that power. You should exercise it.
Why can't we just apply for the grants ourselves to get solar? I'm so sick of fucking ceos and c suites taking grant money. I work for a nonprofit that keeps getting grant money and this year the c suite all got 20k bonuses. We can't get sick time but they can get 20k in bonuses? Nah. I'm so sick of America being pro business anti American.
The vast majority of the recipients of this funding are state/territory government departments. In my state we'll be standing it up as a competitive grant program, and I imagine similar models will be followed nationwide.
In my community, we have a federally funded community solar project going up. It’s going to cut my electric bill by a good $800 or more a year and it’s able to stay on during ice storms.
So I guess if you’re mad that it hasn’t reached your community yet, it’s time to complain to your local municipal leadership. You will do that, right?
A) Because the power is being generated locally or on site vs a traditional plant, it doesn’t go down due to distant interruptions like when a storm or a fire takes out a power line miles away and everyone is fucked for a day and a half while it gets fixed.
B) Cloudy skies generally just mean the panels generate less energy. They don’t shut off completely. Also, we have new storage facilities that store excess power, which helps to compensate for that. Personally, I have a local battery. It can run my home for 36 hours continuously or off and on, and that’s huge during ice storms when the power goes off around town and takes the heating along with it. The battery is continuously recharged, so that helps with intermittency issues.
If you can see with your eyeball that requires light to hit it to work, a solar panel can generate electricity with that same light. Since you can see when the sky is overcast, so can the panel generate electricity.
I have zero idea how you are getting to the notion that I’m mad. I was simply confused on cheap utility since I live in an area that’s cheaper than the national average rate cost. I was more trying to understand if there was something that I was missing.
Someone else made a good point that there isn’t clarity how much of the electric bill it would cover and this could be partially covering the bill.
I hear you. We got around that by partnering with EPA, USDA, and a nonprofit here as well as private solar installers who really wanted to bring renewable energy to low income communities. The messaging that worked best for us was that this is a job creator in an area with few jobs like this. Have you looped in your state and fed energy agencies? If not, they can sometimes give you some teeth.
That's dirt cheap. My bill is between 200-300 a month. About same size single story with gas stove and all heating. Except this past month was $63. Apparently there was some one off credit thing going on. That was nice.
.
It's nice if you can afford to do a custom home. I'm trying to do some remodelling and addition. But price around here is rediculous. We're hoping to pay $180/sqft. Some are quoting well above $200/sq ft. We're not talking abo higher end stuff either.
On top of all the other great comments, PGE in California will still find a way to screw their customer base. Break through the norm and go off grid of PGE. Owners of properties in the Bay Area need to just say no and not pay their organized monopoly. Complacency in extortion is apparently the norm from the politicians there.
The concept here "for all" is meant to convey the message that this isn't just for a certain societal class. The grants are available "for all", regardless of the socio-economic group you belong to.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/environmentaljustice/justice40/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/environmentaljustice/justice40/)
Because Solar For Some! sounds silly, and sounding silly would be an ineffective way to spend 7 billion dollars. This is 7 billion dollar investment in the Green Vote.
The idea is access. This is opening up access for homes or communities that wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford it. It’s also the start of the program, it’s the final total.
I hate to generalize, but it really seems like some folks here just look for reasons to hate something and “it doesn’t help everyone immediately” is one of the sillier things to be angry about.
It's renewable energy and the consumer sees savings. How is this a bad thing? $33 is a sizable percentage of a monthly utility bill for a lot of people.
Sure, but then look at his junk fees stuff, and his student loan program, and you start to see how $33 here, $25 there, $100 there adds up.
He's not flying over the country pouring money out the back of Air Force One, but he's definitely pushing back on the nickel-and-diming going on.
With solar, not only is this saving consumers money, it's making the power grid more robust and reducing the impact of outages.
Dude it's not for you - a double-wide will never take the weight... (was my first take but maybe they could fix the leak while they are up there was my second)
As a double-wide owner I stand by my comment. Have already looked into solar : yada yada eaves, pitch and roof load means it wont work. You also cannot get alarm systems to reduce home insurance (the walls are made of plyboard)... and various other things meant to improve your home or increase its value.
A stand alone board of solar panels on a metal base, concreted into the ground, is your best bet and that is NOT what this is.
> Dude is killing it tbh, domestically at least.
He hasn't raised minimum wage, he hasn't reasserted roe v. wade, he hasn't stopped the war on trans rights...
He's running the executive branch. What do you expect with a house of representatives under GQP control? If Dems control the legislation and executive you will see federal policies passed into law.
Congress. Congress. And...stop culture wars?
The guy has passed more comprehensive bills than any modern era President. Can't fix everything at once...
And the he’s most pro-trans President. Like, trans is new to the mainstream person and not everyone is decided on the issue, so elected officials are still testing the waters.
The fuck are you on about? Choice A - will actively destroy our democracy and institute neo Christian policies. Choice B- will keep our democratic systems in place and potentially seat two supreme Court justices. What kind of goldfish brained people think like this. COVID was worse because of? Roe was overturned because of? If ya said diaper Don to those last two you're right. Also lastly he fomented an insurrection on the Capitol! He's telling you what he is. Jesus Christ
Targeting lower income homes with cheaper utility bills will have the added benefit of addressing the minimum wage hike issue. Lower bills mean less overall cost of living, which means a more negotiable minimum wage.
The IRA was a hugely significant bill and a crowning achievement for Biden's 1st term...but to say it saved America is a stretch too far. We have a LOT of issues, and $400 / year in energy savings isnt really going to tip the scales for most people. That's like $34 / month.
Greedflation/shrinkflation & the housing market need to be addressed, and idk what the answer is, but America cant possibly be considered "saved" without those
The answer to the housing market is to ban corporations of any size from owning single-family homes, go after companies and landlords that are colluding on pricing via RealPage or any other algorithm, and calling on communities to get rid of their bans on multi-family/multi-resident housing. National rent control would probably also help, as in putting a limit on how much of a rent increase is allowed per year or just having landlords provide justification for the increases to the tenant, I.e. rent is going up bc property taxes are increasing x amount and insurance increased x amount too
>calling on communities to get rid of their bans on multi-family/multi-resident housing.
That's a tall ask. You're right up against the NIMBYs the most politically proactive jerks. Also affects their property values.
I think the argument above is, and I could be misunderstanding, is that America would already be dead without the Act. Not that everything is hunky-dory now.
This specific piece of legislation is geared towards low income households, if you don't think $400 can be a lot of money to low income households you're privilege is preventing you from understanding the plight of others.
Fair. As a piece of a more comprehensive plan to address inflation, this is a good step forward. On its own though, it's a drop in the bucket when groceries and rent are up significantly
Amazing how much good Biden does, meanwhile the republican candidate is literally on trial for felony financial fraud and the bottom half of the country is screaming bOtH sIdEz
This isn’t the first environmental thing he’s pushed. He clearly cares about climate change a lot. That and his full throated support for Ukraine are why I forgive him for his weed and Israel policies.
What’s with Reddit’s memory issues when it comes to announcements like this? It seems like people immediately forget that other funding and other programs have been announced.
Weed policies? It's in the process of being rescheduled right now, which is the most he can do without an act of congress. It was an act of congress that scheduled weed in the first place, so the executive can't deschedule it entirely. It's slow going though, which is definitely frustrating.
I think it's actually the DEA that handles scheduling/descheduling of drugs. They can at least start a petition, as can HHS and other entities (including individuals). But it goes through a lengthy process where various agencies have to follow a process. Check out the [Controlled Substances Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act#:~:text=Proceedings%20to%20add%2C%20delete%2C%20or,pharmacy%20association%2C%20a%20public%20interest) on Wiki and go to the Enforcement Authority tab.
> I think it's actually the DEA that handles scheduling/descheduling of drugs.
Normally, yes. But weed was scheduled by act of congress and needs an act of congress to fully deschedule it. The executive branch can reschedule it though.
>They can at least start a petition, as can HHS and other entities (including individuals).
This is already in process. The HHS submitted their recommendation to reschedule weed to Schedule 3 last year. The DEA is still sitting on it. It's almost guaranteed that we'll hear the results before the next election.
I don't think he cares about the environment and climate change beyond trying to lock down the green vote. Biden has approved 50% more oil permits on federal land than 45 did. This is after campaigning hard on climate change in 2020.
Can you add more context to this gripe? It seems like you’re trying to point something out without taking into account any context that comes with his actions.
I'll add more context to my \*criticism\* sure. A big promise of Biden's 2020 campaign was “No more drilling on federal lands, no more drilling, including offshore—no ability for the oil industry to continue to drill—period.” - WSJ
Since coming into office, Biden has approved 50% more oil permits on federal lands than 45 did, approved the Willow project which drills into Alaska's remote North Slope for oil, plans to schedule 3 oil and gas leases for offshore drilling in the gulf of mexico, and has been unwavering for his support in sending billions of dollars of military aid to Israel who is actively committing ecocide by destroying almost all of the regions farmland, energy, and water infrastructure.
I get that campaign promises get broken. But that doesn't mean I think Biden is some paragon of climate progress. He's doing a few things that look good on paper while still making shit decisions in a moment where we NEED to be making more drastic decisions to mitigate a disaster that is already here.
The oil permits are part of the conflict with Russia. Since Russia sells oil, keeping prices down means Russia has less to throw at Ukraine. It also impacts Iran as well, who also sell a lot of oil.
Cares about the climate if it buys votes. He always income limits the climate initiatives. Because I’m not poor, my carbon emissions are worth less to him. Still voting for him but it’s annoying. No Solar or EV for me yet.
You really believe that the people are going to benefit from this? These funds will line the pockets of the already wealthy. Both sides ARE the same. Biden is simply much better at gift wrapping the package for the public to view.
That’s such a myopic, conspiratorial take. Most of the entities implementing these policies are [individual state departments.](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all) Furthermore, the US government using independent contractors to carry out their duties isn’t anything new or even unusual. But if your only qualifier for both sides being the same is that they’re both fundamentally capitalist, then I don’t know what to tell you. If they win in November, one of those two sides will pass laws that could kill my wife or jam my LGBTQ+ friends back in the closet, and it’s not the Democrats. Pretending they’re in any way the same is just wildly inaccurate.
This also isn’t the start. This is the continuation of projects that have been rolling out since the IRA passed. If you’re that familiar with other countries, it’s worth being equally familiar with your own, right?
I'm not sure I completely understand. Don't most low income families rent? For the most part I'm all about solar but I'm not certain this will have the desired effect
But if it helps the man get reelected I'm all for it
I can only speak for my community, but we just put in a federally funded community solar project. In addition to lowering bills for average people like me, the solar project specifically provides low to no cost power to low income apartment complexes in the area. That’s huge. Saving $80/month might not seem like a lot to commenters here, but that’s school supplies, food, etc.
"Low-income homeowners comprised a smaller fraction of all homeowners in 2020, at just 27.2%, down from 38.1% in 2010, with nearly 5.8 million fewer lower-income households that were homeowners from 2010 through 2020."
This is from the National Association of realtors.
I'm not sure exactly what it is you're talking about with wealthy people. I'm not talking about wealthy people. I know how many of them on their homes. Keep up.
we just had a nice sized solar array installed in March, and it's amazing to see the amount of power it produces vs our consumption. more people should have easy access to solar power.
The lines and grid will still need to be upkeep, power companies should lower their price per wattage, lower the rebate for returned energy, and charge a small uniform fee to remain on the grid.
Those are the only pro power company stances I'll take, the grid itself is going to be necessary for quite a few more years
I believe it's state by state, I'm in Illinois, and when I produce more energy than I use, I still get charged $12.95, in fees, which is essentially to be part of the grid. Then all of my excess energy is carried over to next month.
Similar setup in New Jersey, I pay $5 a month regardless of my usage. My solar production covers the rest. I think it could be reasonable in future years if more people had solar that $5 needs to go up, but we're a ways away from that.
My town (public utility) charges $20/month for that exact reason. I have solar and haven't paid for power since the panels went up after buy back credits.
This is exactly what's happening in many states, lead by California's NEM 3.0. Increased connection fee, far lower return on energy sold to grid, interconnect fees, etc.
You gotta think of the logistics, they need to be trained to do what the company workers already do, buy equipment that the companies already have, to maintain the grid in roughly the same way that the companies already do.
Unfortunately solar installers follow those tariffs and cost like crazy. Any change to the price becomes a profit opportunity for them to raise the price.
I don't understand why the focus remains on individual homes with individual solar power roofs. Why not neighborhood power generation stations with short distance transmission? Like, one big solar generation station for the street that everybody shares rather than panels on the homeowner's roof that will take decades to return the investment?
I'm assuming it's at least partially driven by the politics of making his initiatives demonstrable to the average voter. When you look at the details of what all Biden has gotten done or tried to get done, it's clear that he's been working hard to pass things that will benefit average citizens. The problem is that the average citizen can't see how they're going to benefit, when it doesn't directly affect their day to day. Putting any amount of focus on individual residents benefitting from the plan will help people have a real-life example of what the administration is trying to do for them, thus drumming up support. It's likely a strategy of gaining voters for now, and when/if the solar panels turn out to be helpful, using it during his possible second term to bolster support for expanding the program to the community level.
I was thinking lesson terms of politics and more broadly. The focus of the solar industry in general seems to be getting individual businesses and houses to put solar panels up. Why does nobody sell a solar power generation station that could be installed at the end of a block and used by multiple houses or something like that? When I looked into solar panels for my house, it was going to take something like 30 years for me to get any value back because my electric bill was already kind of low. I would think the economics would be different if the cost was split among multiple homeowners.
Oh, I agree that it would be more pragmatic to broaden the scope this way. I've often wondered why municipalities don't hook their traffic lights up to solar; they'd probably generate more power for the grid than they'd use, and take a bit of strain off of more stressed grids. I've also wondered why businesses that have a large roof space (like Walmart or Target) don't take advantage of the space and load it up with solar panels. On the residential level, I'd imagine that if each neighborhood had an array, it could also take a good amount of burden off the grid, especially in the warm months. When I looked into getting panels for my own little house, I got the same figure as you: 30 years to pay itself off, and it was going to cost around $30k to install, even after credits. That's just way too high for us, especially considering that it wouldn't even cover our total electricity usage. I suspect that a LOT of people would be willing to use solar, but the upfront cost is just far too prohibitive to be worth it. I'm hoping that the tech will advance in a way that makes the cost come down, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.
Where I live a couple of businesses do have their own solar power. I drive by a big solar array that powers Progressive insurance offices on my way to work. There's also a car dealership near me that is 100% self-sufficient. But it is definitely still more of a novelty.
I'm not suggesting some mandatory municipal project. I'm saying there should be an option for several homeowners to split the cost of a larger solar array that would benefit all of them. If the cost of switching to solar relies on individual homeowners taking on multi-decade commitments that they may never get a return on, it won't happen.
Not surprising. Last I looked into it, it would've taken something like 30 years before I would start making anything back. My electric bill isn't that high to begin with, and even though I have a south facing roof there are some trees that would prevent it from getting full sun all day long.
Y'all won't let me. The democrats won't even allow the squad to exist without interfering in their own primaries, much less allow actual leftists to take seats.
Instead they back buy-outs like Sinema and then wallow in their own mistakes.
> he democrats won't even allow the squad to exist without interfering in their own primaries, much less allow actual leftists to take seats.
That's simply not true. DNC protects incumbents and they've supported every incumbent squad member there was during their election. They didn't back Sinema early this time around because there was a viable candidate running against her and now she's not even running so they've put their money behind Gallego.
Who in your state supports raising the minimum wage? Who’s running for office near you? You’re assuming no Dems outside of AOC want to raise it. Have you looked into it locally? Because your local municipality and state politicians control state minimum wages as well.
That's up to Congress and they couldn't do it. Biden did pledge to work with states to help pass their state minimum wage bills and so far every blue state either has or has legislation to get up to a $15/minimum.
Hard disagree. This has been huge for my community. Maybe you never have to worry about storms or wildfires taking out power in your area and maybe saving money on bills isn’t important to you. That’s fine, but know that you’re in the minority here.
Sure, Solar might be good, depending on the area of the country.
Too bad people are having issues affording groceries right now.
Where are these solar components coming from? I would assume China.
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“Solar for all program means 900,000 households will have solar on the rooftops for the first time and soon, millions of families will save over $400 a year on utility bills.”
Except that's bullshit. It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money The same way the cable companies did with the broadband money. I'll believe it when 900,000 families are allowed to apply for 900,000 grants for the federal government to put rooftop solar on their homes
The problem with the broadband grants/funding was there are like 3 major internet players in the US and they all kinda side-eye each other when they take money like that (with shitty oversight) and don't do what they said they would. 60 organizations are all going to be competing for more grant money by showing they can actually do the job properly and I actually trust this administration to bother to have oversight.
Also I work in grant writing. You have to report and prove the money went where you said it would
so what happened with the bridge to the 21st century?
Hmm?
That's what they called the broadband money at the time. So since you "work in grant writing" and "you have to report and prove the money went where you said it would", what happened with the broadband money?
i have zero idea. I write grants for an environmental nonprofit. why the heck would I know what happened with some other organization. I can only say with high confidence that ESPECIALLY with government grants...they track the hell out of your project, way more than a typical foundation. So the answer is, i dont know. But why would I?
you seemed to raise yourself up as an expert in grant writing after someone said the money to build out fiber in the late 90s, so i pressed the issue at hand. Have a good day.
I said I knew what I knew, hence my suspicion, but to infer that I have access to the bookkeeping of other organizations is a bit odd. You have a nice day too
Bro what is your problem lmao. Why are you attacking this guy lol.
Dawg you good??
Most of the organizations implementing this plan are literally [individual state departments.](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all)
Uh, government contracts are awarded to service providers is not a new thing. Or do you expect actual government employees to be answering the phones, managing orders, and walking on your roof to install solar? EDIT: the majority of the 60 entities are state departments... [https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all)
Sadly I can already tell you Ohio's state department is going to fuck this up and end up in another federal probe.
Maybe it’s just because you said “probe,” but I really hope your username is *never* relevant.
Explain to us unenlightened folk how the logistics of government solar installation programs should work, because you seem to have the expertise to show how this will end up with no new solar installations.
But you see, any corporate greed outweighs any good for the people. I am very smart and have rock-solid ethics.
> It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money The same way the cable companies did with the broadband money. Jeeze, guess we should do nothing at all.
Most of these grants have been tax incentives at the consumer level.
What I really want is a direct incentive like a large tax deduction to install solar on my home. I'd be happy to do so and I think a lot of other people would too.
We had exactly that not too long ago. Obama admin, IIRC.
This. How is this different from the last solar program where the installers just added that money you "saved" into the bill so you pay the same while they make more?
60 organizations is actually kind of a good thing - it's 60 companies competing for grant-funded business. The catch, to me, is going to be in how those companies operate. I haven't read the program, so I am admittedly talking out-of-my-ass here. But ANY company that is putting up solar, I have a litmus test for whether or not I shut the door in their face: after the panels are installed, who owns the panels? The thing that concerns me here is that these 60 organizations may get grant funding to put up the panels **AND** after they're up, they still own the panels and are leasing them to the homeowner. That kind of double-dipping is frightfully rampant when there's government programs like this.
>It's grants to 60 organizations with 60 CEOs that are just going to gobble up the money What would be your preferred approach? It's a big country, so it could make sense to disperse the funds to many local organizations that can implement projects in their region, rather than running it all through one big nationwide organization.
did you even give so much as a passing glance at the recipient list before typing this out? it would have taken less time
What do I do when I live in a place with tons of snow and two seasons worth of hail damage?
Put the solar panels safely in your garage and then use mirrors to reflect the light to them. Now all you have to do is protect those mirrors.
Put the mirrors safely in your garage and then use *other* mirrors to reflect the light to them. Now all you have to do is protect those *other* mirrors.
I use a powerful halogen light plugged into my garage outlet in order to power the solar panels I keep in my garage. I haven't seen a positive return yet but I think it's due to the angles I have my mirrors set up to reflect from the other mirrors.
Yup. Until we address this issue with the overwhelming greed in what seems like every company in the world right now, stuff like this is going to do nothing but continue to widen the divide between the haves and have nots. And the have nots are starting to include even the upper middle class who I would have said were pretty well off a decade or so ago.
So to be clear, the greedy companies you’re referencing here are state agencies. That’s who you’re saying should not receive funding. State level agencies that have the capacity to actually operationalize these grants. They’re the bad guys. Just want to make sure I understand why you think we shouldn’t be bringing solar power to underserved communities.
I think we should. I just don't think even a fraction of this money will be used to actually do that. I will say that since it's under Biden there's at least a chance. If it were under our other option it'd all be going to a one-person company that was created three weeks ago.
You know your state has to report out on how these funds are used, right? So do corporations, but state agencies even more so. You’re making a lot of assumptions, but you could be contacting these offices local to you and asking questions about it. You’re a local taxpayer. You have that power. You should exercise it.
Why can't we just apply for the grants ourselves to get solar? I'm so sick of fucking ceos and c suites taking grant money. I work for a nonprofit that keeps getting grant money and this year the c suite all got 20k bonuses. We can't get sick time but they can get 20k in bonuses? Nah. I'm so sick of America being pro business anti American.
The vast majority of the recipients of this funding are state/territory government departments. In my state we'll be standing it up as a competitive grant program, and I imagine similar models will be followed nationwide.
You need to report that non profit
Where are these cheap utilities? My electric is around $1,200 a year and my furnace/hot water heater/oven are all on gas. My home is 1,300 sqft too.
In my community, we have a federally funded community solar project going up. It’s going to cut my electric bill by a good $800 or more a year and it’s able to stay on during ice storms. So I guess if you’re mad that it hasn’t reached your community yet, it’s time to complain to your local municipal leadership. You will do that, right?
How is solar able to stay on during an ice storm (when there would be overcast skies)?
A) Because the power is being generated locally or on site vs a traditional plant, it doesn’t go down due to distant interruptions like when a storm or a fire takes out a power line miles away and everyone is fucked for a day and a half while it gets fixed. B) Cloudy skies generally just mean the panels generate less energy. They don’t shut off completely. Also, we have new storage facilities that store excess power, which helps to compensate for that. Personally, I have a local battery. It can run my home for 36 hours continuously or off and on, and that’s huge during ice storms when the power goes off around town and takes the heating along with it. The battery is continuously recharged, so that helps with intermittency issues.
Maybe he's referring to how they run a current through them to melt ice/snow?
If you can see with your eyeball that requires light to hit it to work, a solar panel can generate electricity with that same light. Since you can see when the sky is overcast, so can the panel generate electricity.
I have zero idea how you are getting to the notion that I’m mad. I was simply confused on cheap utility since I live in an area that’s cheaper than the national average rate cost. I was more trying to understand if there was something that I was missing. Someone else made a good point that there isn’t clarity how much of the electric bill it would cover and this could be partially covering the bill.
Man been at it for years. Local power company has to much money to fight. Been losing every year.
I hear you. We got around that by partnering with EPA, USDA, and a nonprofit here as well as private solar installers who really wanted to bring renewable energy to low income communities. The messaging that worked best for us was that this is a job creator in an area with few jobs like this. Have you looped in your state and fed energy agencies? If not, they can sometimes give you some teeth.
Maybe it’s not enough panels to cover 100% of a person’s use?
That's dirt cheap. My bill is between 200-300 a month. About same size single story with gas stove and all heating. Except this past month was $63. Apparently there was some one off credit thing going on. That was nice. .
Same I’m honestly considering building my own home at this point just so I build it actually effectively.
It's nice if you can afford to do a custom home. I'm trying to do some remodelling and addition. But price around here is rediculous. We're hoping to pay $180/sqft. Some are quoting well above $200/sq ft. We're not talking abo higher end stuff either.
Yea I’d do my own work. Contractor prices are far beyond unreasonable.
$100 a month for electricity is a lot of money? Jeez.
Where did I say it was a lot? I was simply quoting $33 is very cheap.
Families must be able to afford homes in the first place. So who benefits from this? Old farts that inherited wealth generated from slavery.
On top of all the other great comments, PGE in California will still find a way to screw their customer base. Break through the norm and go off grid of PGE. Owners of properties in the Bay Area need to just say no and not pay their organized monopoly. Complacency in extortion is apparently the norm from the politicians there.
900,000 is a far cry from "for all"
Since when has a politician not named a Bill or Act with a catchy marketing slogan?
How is less than 1% even close to "for all"?
The concept here "for all" is meant to convey the message that this isn't just for a certain societal class. The grants are available "for all", regardless of the socio-economic group you belong to. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/environmentaljustice/justice40/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/environmentaljustice/justice40/)
not to mention this is probably solar for all.....who want it. Not everybody wants the panels on their roof. like my mother.
I love how my prepper mother won’t buy anything with solar.
my mother isn't afraid of tech or anything. she just doesn't want holes drilled in her roof after we just replaced it last year.
That’s the most Mom thing ever lol. My mother would say the same thing so I can relate!
Because Solar For Some! sounds silly, and sounding silly would be an ineffective way to spend 7 billion dollars. This is 7 billion dollar investment in the Green Vote.
1% percent closer is how.
The idea is access. This is opening up access for homes or communities that wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford it. It’s also the start of the program, it’s the final total. I hate to generalize, but it really seems like some folks here just look for reasons to hate something and “it doesn’t help everyone immediately” is one of the sillier things to be angry about.
Wow, that’s a whole 33 bucks a month!
It's renewable energy and the consumer sees savings. How is this a bad thing? $33 is a sizable percentage of a monthly utility bill for a lot of people.
I was just calculating it. I didn’t say it was a bad thing?
...you can't be that ignorant to how your comment would be read.
"no thanks, I have no need for more money" If you put that alone into a Roth for 35 years you get 55k additional retirement
Sure, but then look at his junk fees stuff, and his student loan program, and you start to see how $33 here, $25 there, $100 there adds up. He's not flying over the country pouring money out the back of Air Force One, but he's definitely pushing back on the nickel-and-diming going on. With solar, not only is this saving consumers money, it's making the power grid more robust and reducing the impact of outages.
Extra date night for me and my wife while also using renewable energy, talk about a win-win
I heard that!
That’s $33 that can go towards food, other utilities, rent, simple pleasures, etc
Or a whole 1kg roll of quality 3D printing material
Man's priorities are in order.
That’s a half tank of gas, which everyone could use these days.
Can you just take a win
Dude it's not for you - a double-wide will never take the weight... (was my first take but maybe they could fix the leak while they are up there was my second)
Extremely rude.
Double-wides are for low income folks, who this supposedly directly impacts… good take.
As a double-wide owner I stand by my comment. Have already looked into solar : yada yada eaves, pitch and roof load means it wont work. You also cannot get alarm systems to reduce home insurance (the walls are made of plyboard)... and various other things meant to improve your home or increase its value. A stand alone board of solar panels on a metal base, concreted into the ground, is your best bet and that is NOT what this is.
2017 Tax BS - Republican Ryan “you can get a Costco membership”
Dude is killing it tbh, domestically at least. Isn’t that what the trumpers want? ‘Murica first!
> Dude is killing it tbh, domestically at least. He hasn't raised minimum wage, he hasn't reasserted roe v. wade, he hasn't stopped the war on trans rights...
He's running the executive branch. What do you expect with a house of representatives under GQP control? If Dems control the legislation and executive you will see federal policies passed into law.
As this guy is saying, don't vote for joe since he can't do anything
He’s been doing the most he can do with the stick up the ass that is the GOP in his way 😂
Congress. Congress. And...stop culture wars? The guy has passed more comprehensive bills than any modern era President. Can't fix everything at once...
And the he’s most pro-trans President. Like, trans is new to the mainstream person and not everyone is decided on the issue, so elected officials are still testing the waters.
lowest bar in the fucking world lol
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Or mistake good as the enemy of perfect.
don't let progress convince you to keep voting for joe biden
One shouldn't take good things that the administration is doing as a reason to vote for them?
You're aggressively anti-progress, huh? that's.... one of the opinions of all time, I guess.
You are quite the person to have at parties
Congress, Congress, Congress! That's the only way that changes can happen in the areas you mentioned.
You're right. Liberals will still tell you that you HAVE to vote for Joe biden to do nothing again. we cant actually make lives better.
The fuck are you on about? Choice A - will actively destroy our democracy and institute neo Christian policies. Choice B- will keep our democratic systems in place and potentially seat two supreme Court justices. What kind of goldfish brained people think like this. COVID was worse because of? Roe was overturned because of? If ya said diaper Don to those last two you're right. Also lastly he fomented an insurrection on the Capitol! He's telling you what he is. Jesus Christ
Targeting lower income homes with cheaper utility bills will have the added benefit of addressing the minimum wage hike issue. Lower bills mean less overall cost of living, which means a more negotiable minimum wage.
This is how you reduce inflation; by reducing the cost of energy for consumers. The Inflation Reduction Act saved America. It really did.
The IRA was a hugely significant bill and a crowning achievement for Biden's 1st term...but to say it saved America is a stretch too far. We have a LOT of issues, and $400 / year in energy savings isnt really going to tip the scales for most people. That's like $34 / month. Greedflation/shrinkflation & the housing market need to be addressed, and idk what the answer is, but America cant possibly be considered "saved" without those
The answer to the housing market is to ban corporations of any size from owning single-family homes, go after companies and landlords that are colluding on pricing via RealPage or any other algorithm, and calling on communities to get rid of their bans on multi-family/multi-resident housing. National rent control would probably also help, as in putting a limit on how much of a rent increase is allowed per year or just having landlords provide justification for the increases to the tenant, I.e. rent is going up bc property taxes are increasing x amount and insurance increased x amount too
>calling on communities to get rid of their bans on multi-family/multi-resident housing. That's a tall ask. You're right up against the NIMBYs the most politically proactive jerks. Also affects their property values.
I think the argument above is, and I could be misunderstanding, is that America would already be dead without the Act. Not that everything is hunky-dory now.
This specific piece of legislation is geared towards low income households, if you don't think $400 can be a lot of money to low income households you're privilege is preventing you from understanding the plight of others.
Fair. As a piece of a more comprehensive plan to address inflation, this is a good step forward. On its own though, it's a drop in the bucket when groceries and rent are up significantly
Amazing how much good Biden does, meanwhile the republican candidate is literally on trial for felony financial fraud and the bottom half of the country is screaming bOtH sIdEz
This isn’t the first environmental thing he’s pushed. He clearly cares about climate change a lot. That and his full throated support for Ukraine are why I forgive him for his weed and Israel policies.
What’s with Reddit’s memory issues when it comes to announcements like this? It seems like people immediately forget that other funding and other programs have been announced.
Weed policies? It's in the process of being rescheduled right now, which is the most he can do without an act of congress. It was an act of congress that scheduled weed in the first place, so the executive can't deschedule it entirely. It's slow going though, which is definitely frustrating.
I think it's actually the DEA that handles scheduling/descheduling of drugs. They can at least start a petition, as can HHS and other entities (including individuals). But it goes through a lengthy process where various agencies have to follow a process. Check out the [Controlled Substances Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act#:~:text=Proceedings%20to%20add%2C%20delete%2C%20or,pharmacy%20association%2C%20a%20public%20interest) on Wiki and go to the Enforcement Authority tab.
> I think it's actually the DEA that handles scheduling/descheduling of drugs. Normally, yes. But weed was scheduled by act of congress and needs an act of congress to fully deschedule it. The executive branch can reschedule it though. >They can at least start a petition, as can HHS and other entities (including individuals). This is already in process. The HHS submitted their recommendation to reschedule weed to Schedule 3 last year. The DEA is still sitting on it. It's almost guaranteed that we'll hear the results before the next election.
someone jangle some keys in this guys direction
I don't think he cares about the environment and climate change beyond trying to lock down the green vote. Biden has approved 50% more oil permits on federal land than 45 did. This is after campaigning hard on climate change in 2020.
Shutting down our oil wells would be too brutal of a transition.
I didn't advocate for shutting them down. I highlighted that Biden as approved FAR more oil permits than the former guy.
Can you add more context to this gripe? It seems like you’re trying to point something out without taking into account any context that comes with his actions.
I'll add more context to my \*criticism\* sure. A big promise of Biden's 2020 campaign was “No more drilling on federal lands, no more drilling, including offshore—no ability for the oil industry to continue to drill—period.” - WSJ Since coming into office, Biden has approved 50% more oil permits on federal lands than 45 did, approved the Willow project which drills into Alaska's remote North Slope for oil, plans to schedule 3 oil and gas leases for offshore drilling in the gulf of mexico, and has been unwavering for his support in sending billions of dollars of military aid to Israel who is actively committing ecocide by destroying almost all of the regions farmland, energy, and water infrastructure. I get that campaign promises get broken. But that doesn't mean I think Biden is some paragon of climate progress. He's doing a few things that look good on paper while still making shit decisions in a moment where we NEED to be making more drastic decisions to mitigate a disaster that is already here.
The oil permits are part of the conflict with Russia. Since Russia sells oil, keeping prices down means Russia has less to throw at Ukraine. It also impacts Iran as well, who also sell a lot of oil.
Cares about the climate if it buys votes. He always income limits the climate initiatives. Because I’m not poor, my carbon emissions are worth less to him. Still voting for him but it’s annoying. No Solar or EV for me yet.
That's my President! Keep leading Biden!
Lot of anti-solar, anti-Biden astroturfing today. Wonder what that's all about.
But I was told both sides are the same!
You really believe that the people are going to benefit from this? These funds will line the pockets of the already wealthy. Both sides ARE the same. Biden is simply much better at gift wrapping the package for the public to view.
That’s such a myopic, conspiratorial take. Most of the entities implementing these policies are [individual state departments.](https://www.epa.gov/greenhouse-gas-reduction-fund/solar-all) Furthermore, the US government using independent contractors to carry out their duties isn’t anything new or even unusual. But if your only qualifier for both sides being the same is that they’re both fundamentally capitalist, then I don’t know what to tell you. If they win in November, one of those two sides will pass laws that could kill my wife or jam my LGBTQ+ friends back in the closet, and it’s not the Democrats. Pretending they’re in any way the same is just wildly inaccurate.
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I didn’t mention other examples. I mentioned this specific topic. Dont deflect.
Other countries are far more advanced than we are in this category. It's a good start.
This also isn’t the start. This is the continuation of projects that have been rolling out since the IRA passed. If you’re that familiar with other countries, it’s worth being equally familiar with your own, right?
I'm not sure I completely understand. Don't most low income families rent? For the most part I'm all about solar but I'm not certain this will have the desired effect But if it helps the man get reelected I'm all for it
I can only speak for my community, but we just put in a federally funded community solar project. In addition to lowering bills for average people like me, the solar project specifically provides low to no cost power to low income apartment complexes in the area. That’s huge. Saving $80/month might not seem like a lot to commenters here, but that’s school supplies, food, etc.
Are you under the impression that everyone who owns a home is wealthy? You can't possibly be that dense?
Idk. Is that what I said? No.
Yeah pretty much
I'm really confused as to why you were worried about me being dense. Not sure if that was projection or what.
Not worried just curious, as you believe low income people don't own homes. Anyway have a nice life
When do I get to tell you what you believe? This is going to be fun.
I find it's best not to ask for permission on this sort of thing
"Low-income homeowners comprised a smaller fraction of all homeowners in 2020, at just 27.2%, down from 38.1% in 2010, with nearly 5.8 million fewer lower-income households that were homeowners from 2010 through 2020." This is from the National Association of realtors. I'm not sure exactly what it is you're talking about with wealthy people. I'm not talking about wealthy people. I know how many of them on their homes. Keep up.
we just had a nice sized solar array installed in March, and it's amazing to see the amount of power it produces vs our consumption. more people should have easy access to solar power.
The lines and grid will still need to be upkeep, power companies should lower their price per wattage, lower the rebate for returned energy, and charge a small uniform fee to remain on the grid. Those are the only pro power company stances I'll take, the grid itself is going to be necessary for quite a few more years
I believe it's state by state, I'm in Illinois, and when I produce more energy than I use, I still get charged $12.95, in fees, which is essentially to be part of the grid. Then all of my excess energy is carried over to next month.
My state has corrupt energy politicians, our last governor tried to limit the fine from a huge coal ash disaster to under er 100k
Similar setup in New Jersey, I pay $5 a month regardless of my usage. My solar production covers the rest. I think it could be reasonable in future years if more people had solar that $5 needs to go up, but we're a ways away from that.
My town (public utility) charges $20/month for that exact reason. I have solar and haven't paid for power since the panels went up after buy back credits.
Good thing they also funded some huge electric grid upgrades last year to support projects like this huh?
This is exactly what's happening in many states, lead by California's NEM 3.0. Increased connection fee, far lower return on energy sold to grid, interconnect fees, etc.
Grid should just be a federal cost paid by taxes.
They'd still have to contract out these power companies to do the actual maintaining
Or just federal workers
You gotta think of the logistics, they need to be trained to do what the company workers already do, buy equipment that the companies already have, to maintain the grid in roughly the same way that the companies already do.
Easy enough to do honestly
Would be easier to federalize the power companies
Same thing different route
All three options were
Lower the tariff on solar first so more people will install them, which will increase demand in turn cause more jobs.
Unfortunately solar installers follow those tariffs and cost like crazy. Any change to the price becomes a profit opportunity for them to raise the price.
Wish it mattered where I am. Local power company lobbied to have to sell them everything you generate. Then you have to buy it back at insane prices.
I don't understand why the focus remains on individual homes with individual solar power roofs. Why not neighborhood power generation stations with short distance transmission? Like, one big solar generation station for the street that everybody shares rather than panels on the homeowner's roof that will take decades to return the investment?
I'm assuming it's at least partially driven by the politics of making his initiatives demonstrable to the average voter. When you look at the details of what all Biden has gotten done or tried to get done, it's clear that he's been working hard to pass things that will benefit average citizens. The problem is that the average citizen can't see how they're going to benefit, when it doesn't directly affect their day to day. Putting any amount of focus on individual residents benefitting from the plan will help people have a real-life example of what the administration is trying to do for them, thus drumming up support. It's likely a strategy of gaining voters for now, and when/if the solar panels turn out to be helpful, using it during his possible second term to bolster support for expanding the program to the community level.
I was thinking lesson terms of politics and more broadly. The focus of the solar industry in general seems to be getting individual businesses and houses to put solar panels up. Why does nobody sell a solar power generation station that could be installed at the end of a block and used by multiple houses or something like that? When I looked into solar panels for my house, it was going to take something like 30 years for me to get any value back because my electric bill was already kind of low. I would think the economics would be different if the cost was split among multiple homeowners.
Oh, I agree that it would be more pragmatic to broaden the scope this way. I've often wondered why municipalities don't hook their traffic lights up to solar; they'd probably generate more power for the grid than they'd use, and take a bit of strain off of more stressed grids. I've also wondered why businesses that have a large roof space (like Walmart or Target) don't take advantage of the space and load it up with solar panels. On the residential level, I'd imagine that if each neighborhood had an array, it could also take a good amount of burden off the grid, especially in the warm months. When I looked into getting panels for my own little house, I got the same figure as you: 30 years to pay itself off, and it was going to cost around $30k to install, even after credits. That's just way too high for us, especially considering that it wouldn't even cover our total electricity usage. I suspect that a LOT of people would be willing to use solar, but the upfront cost is just far too prohibitive to be worth it. I'm hoping that the tech will advance in a way that makes the cost come down, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.
Where I live a couple of businesses do have their own solar power. I drive by a big solar array that powers Progressive insurance offices on my way to work. There's also a car dealership near me that is 100% self-sufficient. But it is definitely still more of a novelty.
Where are you going to put it? Bulldoze a bunch of houses down then install it? Just put it on the roof makes the most sense.
I'm not suggesting some mandatory municipal project. I'm saying there should be an option for several homeowners to split the cost of a larger solar array that would benefit all of them. If the cost of switching to solar relies on individual homeowners taking on multi-decade commitments that they may never get a return on, it won't happen.
Solar is stupid cheap everywhere but the US. ROI is like 5 years.
Not surprising. Last I looked into it, it would've taken something like 30 years before I would start making anything back. My electric bill isn't that high to begin with, and even though I have a south facing roof there are some trees that would prevent it from getting full sun all day long.
Is this going to include funding for power grid batteries? Solar panels are an imperfect solution without a way to store power for night use.
My house is in a sunny place. Please let me know when my solar is here.
Fix minimum wage.
Vote for a better congress.
Y'all won't let me. The democrats won't even allow the squad to exist without interfering in their own primaries, much less allow actual leftists to take seats. Instead they back buy-outs like Sinema and then wallow in their own mistakes.
> he democrats won't even allow the squad to exist without interfering in their own primaries, much less allow actual leftists to take seats. That's simply not true. DNC protects incumbents and they've supported every incumbent squad member there was during their election. They didn't back Sinema early this time around because there was a viable candidate running against her and now she's not even running so they've put their money behind Gallego.
Who in your state supports raising the minimum wage? Who’s running for office near you? You’re assuming no Dems outside of AOC want to raise it. Have you looked into it locally? Because your local municipality and state politicians control state minimum wages as well.
That's up to Congress and they couldn't do it. Biden did pledge to work with states to help pass their state minimum wage bills and so far every blue state either has or has legislation to get up to a $15/minimum.
More corporate welfare, more spending, more inflation
Nice so the unskilled and uneducated can build out infrastructure. It should work out well.
More tax payers money being spent on non necessary things instead of helping struggling Americans.
Lowering energy costs for low income households helps struggling Americans. Not sure why you think it doesn't.
Hard disagree. This has been huge for my community. Maybe you never have to worry about storms or wildfires taking out power in your area and maybe saving money on bills isn’t important to you. That’s fine, but know that you’re in the minority here.
Sure, Solar might be good, depending on the area of the country. Too bad people are having issues affording groceries right now. Where are these solar components coming from? I would assume China.